An Affordable 2/2 in the Loop? 212 W. Washington
212 W. Washington, City Center Club, is a 1990s conversion in the heart of the Loop. Currently, there is a new luxury rental apartment building being built directly across the street.
Would buying in 212 W. Washington be a good investment given the construction activity in the neighborhood?
This 2-bedroom unit recently came on the market. While there is no floor plan provided, usually these units do not have windows in either bedroom.
But you still have an in-unit washer/dryer and a balcony with southern views.
Bradford Miller at Keller Williams West Loop has the listing. See more pictures here.
Unit #1403: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, no square footage listed
- Sold in October 1999 for $204,000
- Sold in November 2004 for $259,000
- Currently listed for $309,900 plus $30,000 for parking (available in the building)
- Assessments of $479 a month
- Taxes of $3489
- In-unit Washer/Dryer
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 13×12
- Bedroom #2: 10×10
- Living room: 29×14
Repeat after me, “still above peak bubble pricing”. You’d be lucky to get out at the 2004 price.
Hate to sound repetitive here, but if it sold for $259K in 2004, it shouldn’t sell a dime higher now.
The assessment is awfully high unless it includes heat. I doubt it does, because it says it has its own forced-air furnace. Heat is a big item in this place.
And when did it come to be that you could call a room a ‘bedroom’ when it doesn’t have a window? I knew we were pretty far gone in the bubble mentality when buyers actually accepted bedrooms with no windows. A room with no window is a closet as far as I’m concerned.
The living room includes the kitchen, obviously. It’s big, but you can’t count the kitchen as a seperate room.
Buyer beware: I have heard that this building has a multitude of construction problems. Anyone buying a place now should get a really, really thorough inspection of the whole building before making an offer, not the usual cursory inspection. It may cost over $1000 to get a good inspection, but consider how much money it can end up costing you to get stuck with a really bad problem, in a place you can’t sell for the price you paid.
Back in Feb. we chatted about a similar unit in this building for $319K that included parking. (It was a foreclosure I believe.) So how is this a deal?
There are a couple of 2/2s in 208 Washington for 270-299K plus parking
The redfin listings for units in this building all say the assessment includes heat….but they also say it includes A/C too, which sounds bogus — so heat included may be incorrect as well.
208 includes gas in the assessments so in terms of heat/AC, you are only paying for the electric blowers. Hope that makes sense
I took a bit of a closer look at this listing and realized I’ve been here. It’s not that great of a building, the walls are thin and the bedroom walls dont go all the way up to the ceiling. Being in the unit just made me feel blegh.
The assessment includes heat/ac and cable. The building just had a special assessment to repay a loan for facade work but is not plagued with construction problems. It is a very sound building and has an on site engineer which 208 does not. This floor plan is on the small side about 1100 s.f. Also, the south facing units pick up the noise of the train, you are better off buying on the west (quiet side) of the building.
not all the 2/2’s are the same in this buildng. some lay out much better than others.
“assessment includes heat/ac”
I don’t live in a condo. I’ve never lived in a condo. So maybe I’m just missing something. But it seems there is a wide, undisclosed variety of definitions of the above.
To me, if a payment “includes heat/ac”, it means that if I keep by unit 90 in the winter and 50 in the summer, my personal utility bills are no more or less than if I keep my unit 68 in the winter and 75 in the summer. Yes, I realize that if everyone took tack A, then everyone’s assessment would go up (barring unusual bylaws), but if what I suggest is not the case, then the assessment doesn’t really “include heat/ac”.
Just curious.
anon: They “kind of” include heat/ac. In my apartment building heat/ac are included in the rent but we pay for the “fan” which is a giant unit. So the more I run it, the more electricity it costs me. So, I dont pay for the heating or cooling coils, but…I pay to move the air.
So…”sort of”. I think its a scam to be honest.
This place MIGHT (big if) be worth 349k (with parking) if the finishes were new… but they are old and crappy and the place looks like a rental! This place will go for 300k with parking, or less.
This unit is just like the 2 beds in 208 Washington which range in price from $275,000-300,000. Most of the Washington units have been sitting on the market for a while and have had price reductions. The units are crammed in for space but they have everything: washer/dryer, balcony, 2 baths etc. some have fireplaces. Unfortunately, the units are tiny and the bedrooms have no windows so the walls do not reach the ceiling.
Too many other lofts and 2 beds in the loop to make this one worthwhile. Will need to come down another 30K to become competetive with comps.
Long time reader/lurker here. I actually own here and ended up buying here because when I bought my unit 3 years ago I couldn’t believe how much cheaper this building was then equivalent buildings in what I considered worse locations (i.e. west loop). Assessments include A/C, heat, cable tv, gas, and the standard highrise amenities like a doorman, etc.
So far this building seems to have escaped the declining prices for the most part. I only really keep an eye on the other units of my type, but based on recent sales I have no worries that I couldn’t sell for more then I paid in 2006 (though only 10-15k more). I believe its because it was already cheaper (relatively) then the west loop, plus the lack of other housing options in the immediate area. I bought specifically for location so I could walk to work.
Overall I like the building – not a fan of the 3/4 walls, but I only have a 1 bed/1bath here so not as big of a deal for me. I’ve never had any noise problems with neighbors, so the walls seem thick enough. The doors have a little gap under them for airflow, so people being loud in the hallways can be a little problem every once in awhile. My neighbor across the hallway blasts his music sometimes, but surprisingly the only place I can hear it in my unit is in the bathroom where the AC/heat is in the ceiling. Might be different if I shared a wall.
Perhaps its a little bit of owners optimism/denial of the current market, but I don’t think so. This will sell well above the 2004 price. Would be curious to hear what Laura says about the problems in the building – I’m not aware of any. Up until this year I’ve never had a special assessment, however this year they added about $100/unit to the monthly assessments to cover facade repairs next year. Otherwise we’ve just had 3% increases each year for assessments. I don’t believe the assessment in the listing includes that special assessment, but don’t quote me.
JPS, the REO 2/2 unit was #1902, which closed 6/3/08 for $302K with parking. #2107 was another 2/2 REO sale on 2/26/08 for $310K with parking.
Here are the other 2/2 sales from the MLS sinc 6/08:
#708 sold 9/9/08 $290K no pkg
#1408 sold 12/19/08 $300K no pkg
#1007 sold 6/27/08 $312K no pkg
#1709 sold 1/21/09 $333.5K no pkg
#1605 sold 12/10/08 $426K with pkg
#1505 sold 1/5/09 $485K with tandem pkg
The 2/2 units range from around 1,000 sf to 1,500 sf.
Sonies,
The days of people willing to pay an extra 50k or so for nicer finishes are over. Before the bubble home improvements beyond basic upkeep were negative ROI. Even basic upkeep was essentially zero ROI (but try not replacing the roof or hot water heater when it needs it and see what that does to resale value).
Nobody cares anymore if a unit has nice finishes. I suspect people are re-prioritizing a lot of things with regard to their life and economic and financial situation and I doubt fad graniteel finishes are high up on that list.
a:
Thanks. That’s what it seems to me to be most times, but it’s certainly less than clear (somewhat intentionally, I’m sure) and kinda misleading, unless the fan cost ~$10/month to run 24/7 (which I’m sure isn’t the case).
“The days of people willing to pay an extra 50k or so for nicer finishes are over.”
Well, they are certainly over as a mass-market item on $250k condos, which is the subject here. There are market segments where the fancy kitchen will still make a difference, but it’s going back to the way it was 10 years ago, where high-end was limited to the high-end due to practicality–it’s like that bathroom in the cottage on Oak Park Avenue–no longer will (sane) people put $25k bathrooms in $200k houses, unless they’re planning to stay for a long time and enjoy the hell out of that expenditure.
anon: Its cheaper, but it still costs you maybe…$20/month if you run it a lot. They advertise it as completely free which is what pisses me off.
what i saw during the build up of the bubble was that windowless “internal bedrooms” and bedrooms not fully enclosed were treated more and more like real bedrooms in terms of price. obviously these internal bedrooms became more common with big loft conversions and their resultant deep plans that required rooms far from the exterior walls, but in the last few years they were even to be found in new construction. bleh. Now as buyers can be pickier, the prices on places with real bedrooms are holding up better. a not unexpected shake-out. i think high end finishes will continue to stay – not the super elite dornbracht, glass tile 5000 dollar stove kinda stuff, but 12″ generic marble tile shower, granites countertops, cheap appliances in SS finishes etc etc. over the last ten years so many place have ramped up to produce that level of stuff that its pretty economical. even with values falling from the present it will still represent a relatively small cost compared to the underlying land vs 10 years ago.
Some additional information and heating and cooling systems in highrise buildings. Typically in building with a central heating/cooling system it has a 2 or a 4 pipe system. 2 pipe system provides either hot or cold water depending on the time of year. A 4-pipe system provides heating or cooling all year long.(operation is a little more complicated that this). In each unit there is either a vertical or horzontal fan coil unit. In all building with this type of system the electical required is metered at the unit owners metering.(industry standard). Additionally ther may be additional baseboard heating can be located at the perimeter which is either a water or electical fin tube. If its a water fin tube cost is payed by the building, and if its electrical it is paid by the unit owner.
I considered living in the loop – even looked at this building – but, it seemed to be kind of dead on nights and weekends – it just didn’t feel very residential. Does/has anyone lived in the loop have opinions on that?
I work late (til 7) and come into downtown on weekends occasionally and can confirm that its pretty dead on nights and weekends. That being said there are some killer bar specials on weekends if you ask around. They’re the exact opposite of their weekday selves in this regard.
Definitely moreso dead on weekends though. Eerily quiet.
“Nobody cares anymore if a unit has nice finishes. I suspect people are re-prioritizing a lot of things with regard to their life and economic and financial situation and I doubt fad graniteel finishes are high up on that list.”
Bob: I wish that were true but you are 100% wrong on this.
All that buyers want is “new, new, new” and that means granite, the 42 inch dark oak cabinets and stainless steel appliances.
If it doesn’t have stainless, it is the kiss of death. I’ve seen listings which have been on the market for several months and then suddenly say, “recently added stainless appliances” when the old black ones worked perfectly fine. But the property wasn’t selling and, I kid you not, it’s because of the color of the appliances.
It’s interesting that no one really mentioned that this kitchen doesn’t have granite counters and it has, gasp, white appliances. Unless it’s priced right, I can guarantee you that it will be an issue with nearly every buyer.
Is this the old Illinois Bell/Ameritech building?
Kristen,
Yes it is. It was converted to lofts in 1999.
Fullhouse,
You are right. The loop is not very residential which is why there are only a few good residential buildings in the loop to choose from (a few invsco tragedies are nearby). On the other hand the location is ideal for those who work in the loop and do not want to commute. You also have Millennium Park 7 blocks to the east and the lake just beyond. You are a 5 min. cab ride to all the restaurants on West Randolph St. and in River North. In addition you are walking distance to all the theaters, museums, art institute and cultural center. The easy access to all the train lines makes the location extremely convenient if that is a high priority for you.
Yawn…boring unit, boring neighborhood.
Sabrina,
I actually sold my condo very quickly/easily several months with white appliances, without granite counters, no marble, etc. None of the potential buyers mentioned it as why they weren’t interested, other than some of them wanting to get it for $5-10K less than a comp.
Hi Fullhouse,
I live in 208 Washington and have actually noticed a huge uptick in the number of people around on the weekends. More and more restaurants are staying open Sat-Sunday too. The huge rental building going in across the street will add about 400 residents to the area.
Wait until you see the rents it will take to fill that place and what it does to the rent/own comparison at 208 & 212.
I work two blocks from this building. It’s a great loop area during the work week but it’s pretty dead on the weekends. I have no problem finding street parking on Saturdays when I come into work. There’s more going on during the summer. I’d rather live a few blocks north where River North begins.
HD–your posts suggest you will never pay River North prices, so forget that above-mentioned preference. If you’re comfortable in Old Irving, you won’t like the thriving, active, accessible, interesting and fun neighborhood called River North, even if you got some unbelievable deal.
The neighborhood is also getting another new apartment building at the northwest corner of Wells & Lake.
Haha John2 that made me laugh.
Mike do you think they will finish 220 W. Lake or whatever its called? I doubt they have enough sales to get financing, or did they do that before they started building? I’d hate to see another waterview POS crappin up the downtown area.
John 2, hahahahahah, you goof. FYI the SO and I have been looking of late in River West b/c it’s close to our jobs, but like you said, we’re waiting for an “unbelievable” deal. I’d settle for a good deal, though. Unfortunately, the only recent posting have been the same overpriced units, over and over again, sometimes with a $50 price reduction, or the occasional FB.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/apa/1026286314.html
and FYI I’m comfortable in old irving b/c living near the highways used to be an extremely important component of both mine and my SO’s job. That was 4 years ago; now that we both take the train to work things are little different, and living a “thriving, active, accessible, interesting and fun neighborhood called River North” would be acceptable….But on the other hand there are a lot of douche bags carpetbaggers from around the Midwest that live in River North so they can say they live in River North…..River West is closer to the trains/buses we need to take to get to work.
“John 2 on February 10th, 2009 at 10:09 am
HD–your posts suggest you will never pay River North prices, so forget that above-mentioned preference. If you’re comfortable in Old Irving, you won’t like the thriving, active, accessible, interesting and fun neighborhood called River North, even if you got some unbelievable deal.”
HD,
How right you are, sir. RN is consider to be home of every overly status conscious midwesterner who wishes they were an east coaster but doesn’t want to move too far away from home. I hate that neighborhood for precisely the reasons you expounded on. RW is a little newer and not nearly as pretentious.
“But on the other hand there are a lot of douche bags carpetbaggers from around the Midwest that live in River North so they can say they live in River North…..River West is closer to the trains/buses we need to take to get to work.”
Classic quote!
“RN is consider to be home of every overly status conscious
midwesterner who wishes they were an east coaster but doesn’t want to move too far away from home.”
There’s probably a reason they don’t list the square footage in this listing. Makes me wonder if this is *really* overpriced.
I first moved from Edgewater to the Loop in 2003 (State and Washington) it was quiet in those days on the weekends, but now… it is pretty lively. The opening of Millennium Park changed everything on the east side of the Loop. I actually grew to love the quiet on Sunday mornings.
The access to the rest of the city via transportation can’t be beat. The money I save not having a car keeps me happy in toys, and besides, there are more than 20 Zip Cars parked within a five minute walk.
The luxury of having a ten minute walk to work is immeasurable. I gained an extra hour a day when I moved downtown.
As for the Heat/AC included in the assessments… My building had the same set up… We generated our own hot water for heat and purchased chilled water from Exelon (it was a bit pricey). It was only a two pipe system, but there were only a few days a year that I ever noticed it. I loved that I could set my thermostat to what ever I wanted and forget it until the seasons changed.
The Loop isn’t for everyone, but if you like urban life… It’s amazingly accessible in Chicago.
“Mike do you think they will finish 220 W. Lake or whatever its called? I doubt they have enough sales to get financing, or did they do that before they started building?”
What we’ll call 220 W Lake is an apartment building. Rolling by on the train every couple of days, I continue to see progress on the site. A couple of weeks ago, it was just a hole in the ground. Yesterday they were starting the ground floor, the concrete forms were being constructed for the elevator shaft and outside walls.
I think the financing was already in place before they started. I think that it was financed by some equity group… There is always a chance of it becoming a Waterview skeleton, but it looks to me like they are moving along at the moment. I will keep my fingers crossed…
Yeah my bus (the 11) rides past that site every day, and it doesn’t look like much has been done on the foundation for the last two months or so. They’re probably doing caisson work or something like that.
I have the listing at 212 W. Washington. I must say, some of the comments on here are pretty funny because they are so off-base. First of all, yes, the assessments do include heat, a/c, expanded cable, garbage, and all of the building ammenties like a 24 hour doorman and exercise room. Second, it is the lowest priced 2 bedroom/2 bathroom in the building. Third, 208 W. Washington is a nice building but the prices in that building are almost always lower than 212 W. Washington due to the train tracks and poorer views in some cases. Fourth, the square footage is 1052 – as a side note, Realtors often dont know the actual square footage so they leave it blank because they dont want to mislead anyone with estimates. I recently got the floor plan which states it is 1052 square feet. Fifth, the building is in good shape – financially and physically – much better than other buildings in the general area. Sixth, yes the neighborhood can be “quiet” on the weekends in the winter but in the summer there is plenty to walk to and plenty of people around!
VB on February 9th, 2009 at 12:03 pm seems to have addressed points 1, 3, 4, and 5 – also indicated that the south side of 212 is closer to the El.
Hey Brad, next time you take pictures in a relatively dark place like that use a flash, or something other than your cell phone. And its amenities not ammenities 😛
#1403 may be the lowest price 2/2 at 212 but it is also one of the smaller units currently listed for sale
The following are the current 2/2 listings and the asking price per sf.
#1403 $286 p s.f. 1092 s.f.
#709 $257 p s.f. 1240 s.f.
#808 $270 p s.f. 1180 s.f.
#1002 $314 p.s.f. 914 s.f.
#2105 $319 p s.f. 1550 s.f.
The last 2/2 sale was #1408 at $254 price per s.f. ($300,000)
All comments very, very helpful; especially, since I was considering looking there, City Center Club, 212 W. Washington. I find Crib Chatter very, very helpful in my search for a downtown Chicago condo. Thank you one-and-all ! Keep blogging !!
I know I’m 3 years late on this… LOL.. Looked at a unit last night here. I liked it but just found out that cable isn’t really included, it is an extra 28/month… and parking assessment is 82/month. The parking thing might be normal for these buildings, but why claim that cable is in the original assessment amount? weird, right?