Back to the 1997 Price for this 2/2 Loft in Printers Row? 161 W. Harrison
It’s been over 3 years since we’ve chattered about the Market Square Lofts at 161 W. Harrison in Printers Row.
One of the few buildings in Printers Row with central air, in-unit washer/dryers and deeded onsite parking, the units have high ceilings and big windows but lack exposed brick, timber, exposed beams or other authentic loft characteristics.
This 2 bedroom, 2 bath unit has been on the market for a year.
In that time it has been reduced $110,000 and is listed as a “short sale.”
It is now listed just $9,900 over the original 1997 sales price (as the building was first converted into condos in 1997.)
It has french doors and oak hardwood floors throughout.
The kitchen has white cabinets, white appliances and granite counter tops on the breakfast bar.
There is a two sided fireplace.
The unit below it, Unit #605, is also on the market- but to rent- for $1950 a month. You can see from the pictures of that unit that it faces directly into the Vetro next door. (That unit has been available to rent since November 2010.)
See Unit #605 rental here.
From the listing history, it appears the bank has been reducing this unit every two weeks- but stopped at the current price a couple of weeks ago.
Is this a deal at $151 a square foot (and given the rental asking price of the unit below it)?
Bryan Schmidt at Strive Real Estate has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #705: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1325 square feet
- Sold in June 1997 for $190,000
- Sold in August 1999 for $215,000
- Sold in April 2003 for $240,000
- Sold in July 2005 for $330,000
- Originally listed in January 2010 for $309,900
- Reduced numerous times
- Currently listed as a “short sale” at $199,900 (parking included)
- Assessments of $584 a month (includes everything except electric- including heat, a/c, gas, doorman, cable)
- Taxes of $3551
- OR you can rent the unit below it, Unit #605, for $1950 a month (doesn’t appear that parking is included)
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 19×11
- Bedroom #2: 10×13
If you had the downpayment for this place, buying would win out. Man the south loop has fallen off a cliff if a larger 2/2 can’t even fetch 200k.
All great points being brought up. This units biggest negative is it’s lack of a view. This unit is a great starter that could be converted to a rental down the road. All I know is whoever ends buying this is going to be getting an unbelievable deal.
This location is a tough sell. During the bubble any location could sell. Now…not so much.
I love love love printers row, but even if i was 20 and single i wouldnt pay 200k for a 2 bedroom with only three windows and the windows are only in the front room.
and also its a short sale it doesent mean the bank will even approve 200k and you may have to wait over 6 months for a answer on a 3 window apartment.
You love Printer’s Row. It’s a stretch to call this Printer’s Row. Too far west.
I really don’t want to be negative or mean, but who, in their right mind would want to rent OR buy in this area? It just seems so industrial, pedestrian unfriendly, and extremely scary at night (or, even in the day). I remember once getting carted off to jail on state street (a little south of here ) and having to walk back to congress the next morning (past this area). I seriously thought that I was safer in jail than I was walking around this neighborhood (in broad daylight!!).
“You love Printer’s Row. It’s a stretch to call this Printer’s Row. Too far west.”
really to me printers row is only a stretch of dearborn (federal a bit too) about a city block and a half, i dont know the offical PR boundries, would like to know, but just that stretch is all that give off “that” vibe, so i just stick to my view of PR area.
and really anything other than the annex, franlin, donahue, ect. is just impostures right?
The area has changed a lot. Last week I met a 40 divorced fella who lives in the general vicinity and he loves it. Cheap rent, big space, short walk to his office and work. Says it has way more of a neighborhoody feel than just a couple of years ago. The south loop will rise again.
“I really don’t want to be negative or mean, but who, in their right mind would want to rent OR buy in this area?”
Many people consider it to be the only “Soho”-like neighborhood in Chicago (with the big industrial buildings and spaces.)
The neighborhood has really improved during the boom years. Lots of restaurants have opened, more buildings, more people etc.
This isn’t Printer’s Row. Printer’s Row is Polk to Harrison, State to Clark. This is just plain old SLoop.
Yeah, Dearborn is more like it. This is way west of that. The realtors love to call this area Printer’s Row but when in doubt I use Joe Zekas’ Ultimate List of Chicago neighborhoods: http://knol.google.com/k/the-ultimate-list-of-chicago-neighborhoods#N_to_P
By the way: November Case Shiller out this morning.
20-city index saw its biggest year over year drop since December 2009, falling 1.6%.
8 cities fell to new lows- but Chicago was not one of them. Still, Chicago fell 7.6% year over year. And once again was among the worst performing cities. Only Atlanta was worse at 7.9%. It also fell 2.2% from October to November.
“With these numbers more analysts will be calling for a double-dip in home prices,” David Blitzer, chairman of the index committee at S&P, said in a statement. A double-dip would be reached when the 20-city index sets a new post-peak low, which may happen in the first half of this year, said Blitzer.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-25/home-prices-in-u-s-fell-1-6-in-november-from-year-ago-case-shiller-says.html
““The price action is surely going to lead many to speculate as to whether the housing market is double dipping but we repeat our long held position; housing can only double dip if you believed it was bouncing in the first place,” said Dan Greenhaus, chief economic strategist at Miller Tabak & Co. “As we never believed the spring improvement was anything other than a mirage, we cannot believe in the concept of a double dip. Prices, according to the index, are down by 3.50% from the June high and we repeat our position that further price declines lay ahead.””
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/01/25/a-look-at-case-shiller-by-metro-area-january-update-2/
Clio – Many love these types of neighborhoods but they tend to be East Coasters who would live in Tribeca (and yes when I lived there when it was mostly industrial and not pedestrian friendly… back when John-John was a neighbor) over the Upper East any day. This area is for people who want a downtown feeling, quiet and cool architecture. Sadly, this particular unit lacks great architecture with its nearly windowless 80s decor. The owner hasn’t changed anything in well over a decade. Out dated properties just are not selling period. No one has the cash to fix them up. This would sell in the boom b/c the owner could always get a HELOC to update the unit…not now however.
Sabrina, who the hell should care about these stupid Case Schiller numbers?!!!! They are so ridiculous, unimportant/uninformative, and misleading that any sane rational person wouldn’t put much weight in them. Remember this is a general number that averages ALL of the condos or SFH sales in a city – what responsible entity would EVER do that?!!! It is completely irresponsible. Chicago, if you don’t understand, is made of many neighborhoods – are you really expecting me to believe that property sales from englewood averaged with property sales from the elysian are going to result in any meaningful number?!!! If anyone thinks that – they are extremely naiive.
Oh, Case-Shiller also reported increases in LA, SF and SD – does this mean these places are “hot” and rebounding? Should we all flock there and start buying. Wow – what a bunch of uninformed morons we are to allow these numbers to influence our individual thoughts.
a local, – east coasters who lived in Tribeca are NOT going to love this area – period.
“when in doubt I use Joe Zekas’ Ultimate List of Chicago neighborhoods”
I have a hard time with South Loop going all the way to Jackson, as that is *clearly* into the actual Loop.
This location isn’t P Row, but isn’t really “generic” SLoop, either.
Is the space b/t the refrigerator and the counter really as tight as it looks in the one pic?
Only SD saw an increase month over month in the 20 city index.
Isn’t Case Shiller only SFH? I thought they had a different condo index. Heck, if you included condos in this data it would be far, far worse.
“Isn’t Case Shiller only SFH?”
Oh… in that case, the numbers are more accurate – NOT. ARE YOU F’ING KIDDING ME WITH THIS BS? Again, let me explain what an average is because many people don’t seem to understand: If you have a 3 million dollar house (in LP) and average it with 9, 50k houses (in Englewood), the average would be 345k. WTF does this number really tell you? NOTHING
I don’t disagree entirely…I would do RN or even West Loop before Printer’s Row…probably RN lofts. But someone from Tribeca is not going to love Streeterville, Michigan Avenue or Gold Coast either. Trust me….I wouldn’t buy there….borning, highrises…that are so Upper East/Trump. It sad that Chicago has such interesting housing stocks but an inability to develop neighborhoods that are not tree lined streets (Lincoln Park, Northside) or high rises (South Loop, Streeterville, etc…) RN and Bucktown are the closest to a downtown NYC neighboorhood but they are really not there either.
Sabrina — Clio is right about the Case Schiller…meaningful to the market (REITs, investors with large diverse portfolios) but not an individual buyer. I think the high end will start picking up as employment in this sector improves (banking, medicine, business, etc…) and the stock market improves. Average Joe properties…its a long time in coming.
I was in several units in this building before Vetro was built. At that time, western-facing units had great views of the river.
The points about the lack of windows (and green space) are well taken.
But for under 200,000, for the right person (no kids) who wants to be close to work, downtown, and public transit, this is a steal.
“If you have a 3 million dollar house (in LP) and average it with 9, 50k houses (in Englewood), the average would be 345k. WTF does this number really tell you? NOTHING”
Clio–
Please read *something* about the methodology before ranting about this in this fashion. You’re evidencing a fundamental misunderstanding of how the index is constructed, and it will allow people to focus on your lack of knowledge rather than your point, which I disagree with somewhat, but is valid.
“I would do RN or even West Loop before Printer’s Row…probably RN lofts”
really why?
for me I would live in printers row before west loop or RN. I would live in Sloop before west loop or RN.
If i was given a place for free and had to choose Printers row or a ELP i would choose Printers row. thats just me.
The double dip is almost here and price declines are accelerating!
The CS means nothing to individual buyers…except … that it tells buyers that if they hold off on buying today, there will be better deals tomorrow. And even better deals after that.
The index still has a long way to tumble. 1999 nominal prices are just the stabilization point, but it will dip below that before coming back up. We’re only halfway through the price declines in Chicago.
Will there even be a spring bounce this year?
“Isn’t Case Shiller only SFH? I thought they had a different condo index. Heck, if you included condos in this data it would be far, far worse.”
Yep. For Chicago, not S_A, YoY, the SFH index went from 129.36 to 119.57, condo index went from 135.35887 to 119.61242.
its a fine location and its totally printers row
anyway, this isn’t suprrising that its at its 1997 price, since well it appears that ZERO maintenance has been done on the place since 1997
“Oh… in that case, the numbers are more accurate – NOT. ARE YOU F’ING KIDDING ME WITH THIS BS? Again, let me explain what an average is because many people don’t seem to understand: If you have a 3 million dollar house (in LP) and average it with 9, 50k houses (in Englewood), the average would be 345k. WTF does this number really tell you? NOTHING”
it does matter bc when Average Joe hears on the news tonight that “Home prices fell 1.6% in November,” he is going to think that home prices are still going down.
“…everything in this world, including money, operates not on reality – but the perception of reality.”
“We’re only halfway through the price declines in Chicago. ”
That prediction translates into a CSINSA value of 70.54.
Or were you talking about time? If so that would be January 2015.
Time seems reasonable as I don’t foresee Chicago’s CSI going to 71.
Case Shiller index for SFH in Chicago did hit a new low. Condos did not hit a new low but are close – probably next month. We are now down 29.1% from the peak. I’m pretty sure we have another 2-3 months of these declines before there is any hope of a recovery in prices.
Bob–thanks for asking my question.
“The CS means nothing to individual buyers…except … that it tells buyers that if they hold off on buying today, there will be better deals tomorrow. And even better deals after that.”
Oh really?!! Wtf does this tell a buyer who is looking for a SFH in Lincoln Park or someone who wants a luxury condo in the gold coast? Wtf does it tell someone that wants to buy in Kenilworth or Hinsdale? No – HD, you are WRONG = it is a number that will cause much more harm and confusion to the INDIVIDUAL home buyer than it will help them. and the fact is that the average buyer doesn’t understand (or want to understand) how the number is created so they just get the bullet point that prices are going down and that is the only thing they take from it.
If you think the CS-chicago is going below 100 you’re insane in the membrane
“it does matter bc when Average Joe hears on the news tonight that “Home prices fell 1.6% in November,” he is going to think that home prices are still going down”
wouldn’t this be clios psychology factor at work! Also can we all just agree with clio that economic data points are meaningless………..
“the fact is that the average buyer doesn’t understand (or want to understand) how the number is created ”
[taking the bait] I wouldn’t call you average, clio.
It’s a strange little neighborhood kind of between the river, the rock island tracks, harrison and polk. NOT printers row, kind of dark very little retail. This place has no chance of selling until the construction on the expressway is completed.
OK – my prediction is that Chicago bottom’s out in the high 70’s or low 80’s and quickly jumps back up to the 90’s, with 100 being the baseline 2000 prices and it will stay in the 90’s/100’s through the rest of the decade. According to my analysis (based upon estimates, calculations, market observations and raw gut instinct), it appears that Chicago will reach the high 70’s or early 80’s sometime in 2013 or 2014 which is entirely consistent with what I’ve been saying for years on this board.
“#Bob on January 25th, 2011 at 9:14 am
“We’re only halfway through the price declines in Chicago. ”
That prediction translates into a CSINSA value of 70.54.
Or were you talking about time? If so that would be January 2015.
Time seems reasonable as I don’t foresee Chicago’s CSI going to 71.”
“
Gary, as a realtor – you seem to use the CSI quite a bit. Please tell me how that accurately reflects prices of individual units in specific neighborhoods. Please tell me…. because I hope you DO understand that the average buyer is not looking at all neighborhoods in chicago and really could give a f@ck about the average price of a condo or sfh in chicago. They want to know what that prices are doing in the specific type of housing in the specific neighborhood in which they are looking. To spout these nonsense numbers makes me very suspect about how YOU use these numbers – either you don’t understand this simple concept or perhaps you are using them to convince individual sellers to lower prices to achieve sales. I know this sounds like an attack, but I don’t see any other explanation…..
Sonies, we’re already more than 2/3rd of the way to 100 from the peak.
I’m going to remember your quote calling me insane in the membrane. I’m bookmarking it right now.
anon
Your right the fact that the average buyer doesn’t understand (or want to understand) how the number is created might lead them to believe that prices are falling everywhere. This is why the high end market will keep moving (these are not average Joe buyers) and the average Joe market will slow.
I know no one hear agrees with me on this, particularly clio, but I find the CSI a useful measure of understanding price differences looking 10yrs back. If you are looking at two condos one that sold in 1999, and one that sold in 2002. I sometimes use it to gauge what the 1999 one would have sold for in 2002.
Now im not even coming close to saying that I would ever purchase anything based on this, im mostly driven by rental returns. But I find it a very useful tool. I would NEVER use CSI for SFH, there is just wayyyyyyyy to much variation, but condos in chicago are limited to certain neighborhoods, mostly GZ or adjacent neighborhoods.
“OK – my prediction is that Chicago bottom’s out in the high 70’s or low 80’s and quickly jumps back up to the 90’s, with 100 being the baseline 2000 prices and it will stay in the 90’s/100’s through the rest of the decade. According to my analysis (based upon estimates, calculations, market observations and raw gut instinct), it appears that Chicago will reach the high 70’s or early 80’s sometime in 2013 or 2014 which is entirely consistent with what I’ve been saying for years on this board.”
OK – THIS IS THE NONSENSE I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT!! SERIOUSLY – ARE YOU GUYS GOING TO LISTEN TO THIS MUMBO JUMBO? ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE THIS GUY’S PREDICTIONS SERIOUSLY? Hd- again, this might be a great intellectual exercise for you – but for the average buyer, these numbers are confusing. Let’s stop the flow of useless and confusing information and get back to basics….
Clio – obviously you have no financial sense. The index is a dollar-weighted average not a simple average of prices. It’s like the DJIA which is price-weighted instead of dollar-weighted. Or the S&P 500 which is market cap weighted, not a simple average. So don’t post before you look things up. If it’s too complex, then stay out of the financial world.
“ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE THIS GUY’S PREDICTIONS SERIOUSLY?”
I follow HD’s advise very closely he has saved me a bunch of money, and saved me from myself and digging myself into a huge financial burden. he may be all doom and gloom but his advise is sound
Clio, “the average buyer is not looking at all neighborhoods in chicago and really could give a f@ck about the average price of a condo or sfh in chicago. They want to know what that prices are doing in the specific type of housing in the specific neighborhood in which they are looking.”
I agree 100%, i mean you even here this on CC, all these folks only looking at SFH in ELV or ELP. What do they care about the 99% of housing stock that makes up the rest of the city.
HD – you may be as irresponsible as the lenders of the mid 2000s – by spouting nonsense numbers and convincing people to wait and wait for lower prices, some buyers will miss out on the bottom (which is now) and may be priced out in 5 years. What are you going to say then? People will be as angry with you as they are now with lenders of the mid 2000s.
Clio must be a realtor the way he/she’s trying to pump up prices. I’d argue the CS index is actually more optimistic than what’s really going on. A 2-bedroom, south loop condo WITH parking, at 1997 prices? That’s way more than a 1-5% decrease. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many short sales for the under $250,000 market that it’s hard to pick from. But a realtor will talk it up, ever optimistic, so they can get a higher 6% commission.
one simply way to visualize what I’m talking about is make a trend line from the peak in 2006 heading down. Not the trendline from the 80’s going up like some people do, but from the peak heading down; and you will see that we break through 100 in 2012 or 2013, and we’ll head into the 70’s or 80’s for a short time in 2014 . And by this time the market will have worked through a large number of foreclosure and short sales and people will be so excited to pick up deals (the psychology aspect) that they’ll be buying up properties on the cheap and lots of them.
Future foreclosure and short sales from 2015 and beyond will keep a lid on prices until all 2000-2008 purchased properties have made their way through the foreclosure/short sale/resale pipeline.
eric, let’s compare real estate and financial portfolios. You want to give advice to me? Learn about who you are talking to before opening your mouth…
“OK – my prediction is that Chicago bottom’s out in the high 70’s or low 80’s and quickly jumps back up to the 90’s, with 100 being the baseline 2000 prices and it will stay in the 90’s/100’s through the rest of the decade. According to my analysis (based upon estimates, calculations, market observations and raw gut instinct), it appears that Chicago will reach the high 70’s or early 80’s sometime in 2013 or 2014 which is entirely consistent with what I’ve been saying for years on this board.”
Well, I think it’s more bearish than you’ve been in the past, or at least more explicitly so in terms of pricing. You’re saying we’ll reach nominal 1994 or so prices.
Thanks HD, I don’t agree they will go that low but they are definitely going lower. Interest rates are going up, nothing’s selling. At wait until spring, all the pent up sellers from last year are going to flood the market. I can’t call a bottom like Clio apparently can, but I can tell that when 40% of sales are short sales/foreclosures, this market is going NOWHERE for a long time. Maybe down some more, but definitely not up. Anyway who can predict a bottom is either a real estate agent or a moron.
“Gary, as a realtor – you seem to use the CSI quite a bit.”
No, not really. I talk about it a lot. I use it to track overall market conditions. But I actually discourage buyers and sellers from using it to try to determine the value of individual properties because that’s not what it is intended for. When it comes down to individual properties I try to get a sense of the market for that type of housing in that type of area and also look at what the buyer’s needs are and what else is available for them.
But that doesn’t mean the index is useless. It’s great for sensing the direction of the market.
Clio sounds like an angry person with all the swearing and condescending remarks. Must’ve been burned in the market or trying to sell and can’t get an offer. Grow up.
So HD, you’re expecting a 40-50% drop from where we stand TODAY?
yes, you are insane in the membrane… the bubble popped back in 06-07 and the financial world nearly collapsed in 08-09… its already 2011 and the housing market is showing signs of decreases slowing down (albeit… slowly) i just think it would take another 5 years at 1% a month in price drops for your situation to happen and I really don’t see that happening. 5 years from now is a LOOOOONG time!
HD – I actually understand your methodology – but reality is VERY different. For an individual buyer looking for their own home, these numbers are dangerous and misleading. For investor groups, the numbers are VERY IMPORTANT. People are going to be very mad at you in 2-3 years when:
1. they are still living in the rental or dump that they are currently in
2. they have been priced out of the neighborhood they want to live in
…all while waiting for your “curve”/”slope” to go below 100. Actually…. come to think of it, if people are that stupid to listen to this nonsense, then they deserve to miss out….
“OK – THIS IS THE NONSENSE I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT!! SERIOUSLY – ARE YOU GUYS GOING TO LISTEN TO THIS MUMBO JUMBO? ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE THIS GUY’S PREDICTIONS SERIOUSLY? Hd- again, this might be a great intellectual exercise for you – but for the average buyer, these numbers are confusing. Let’s stop the flow of useless and confusing information and get back to basics….”
nobody thought the S&P could go from 1600 to 660 a year and a half.
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent”
things tend to over-correct on the downside. the bottom will come when EVERYONE is bearish on housing, just like the top came when EVERYONE was bullish.
“let’s compare real estate and financial portfolios. You want to give advice to me? Learn about who you are talking to before opening your mouth…”
miumiu:
*this* is a perfect example of a post that a negative response to might *seem* to be about money, but it’s really just about the poster being a jerk.
Yes, I guess it is a bit more bearish, but also a bit refined. I’ve been saying 1999 prices for years – but not that 1999 would be a kickstand of sort supporting prices from going any lower, but 1999 prices as a general stabilization point. However, as shown with examples like this condo above, 1997 prices are on some units are in order and going lower. This property might very well sell for 1994 (extrapolated) pricing. But again, I believe that after the market quickly corrects from the new lows it will quickly jump back up to nominal 1999 pricing over all. Properties like this will stay low, desirable SFH in the city will sell for higher. It’s all relatively. Remember, SFH in the green zone WILL be expensive. There just aren’t that many of them, many of them are luxury and there is a lot of competition and money floating around. However the real pricing will be determined when there is an ample supply of homes price appropriately, and buyers have to put down 20%.
“Well, I think it’s more bearish than you’ve been in the past, or at least more explicitly so in terms of pricing. You’re saying we’ll reach nominal 1994 or so prices.”
Clio, so I’m supposed to trust some real estate agent or Shiller who predicted the crash. I’ll go with the smart guy:
June 3, 2005 Is the red-hot housing market a bubble about to burst? Madeleine Brand talks to Yale University economics professor Robert Shiller about the fate of the national housing market. Shiller calls the housing market a “bubble” — meaning prices are out of touch with economic reality — and predicts the market will collapse. The only question, he says, is when.
“There are so many short sales for the under $250,000 market that it’s hard to pick from”
yeah but unless you’re friends with someone at the bank the owners have the loan at, good luck getting a short sale to be approved…
I could list my house for a dollar, but do you think the bank will do that favor for me? hah no
anon- come on – i didn’t start this little battle between eric and me. I don’t even know who the heck “eric” is. He started the attack and, because I am in the middle of my work out and have a lot of adrenaline pumping through my body, was a little “over the top” in my response. Reading comprehension… my friend….. reading comprehension…..
Sonies,
Apparently people have a lot of friends at banks, oh wait maybe not:
CNBC – Diana Olick – 20 hours ago
Over 47% of all home sales in December were short sales or foreclosures
Actually sonies, price declines in Chicago are accelerating. The Chicago Case-Shiller Condominium Index dropped 1.6% from October. From September to October it dropped 2.5%.
http://www.chicagometroarearealestate.com/chicago-case-shiller-index-2-2-november-2010/
Further declines are inevitable.
“its already 2011 and the housing market is showing signs of decreases slowing down (albeit… slowly) “
curious clio as to what workout you do that gets your “adrenaline pumping”… I believe you mean endorphins?
some doctor you are… LOL
Actually sonies, disregard my previous post. i misread my link and it does not support my proposition.
“just like the top came when EVERYONE was bullish.”
There was a LOT of bearish sentiment in ’06. So, “EVERYONE” must mean something other than “over 99% of people”, but, as a late arriver, it’s hard to extract oneself from a Ponzi scheme, especially when it involves moving, too.
One interesting thing about the C-S is looking at the tiered price numbers (SFHs only–apparently not available for condos). With breaks (as of NOV-10) of LOW= Under $171537, MID= $171537 – $287514, and HIGH = Over $287514, the LOW is getting killed, at 105.69, down from a MAR-07 high of 183.56, while the HIGH has broken thru to be higher than the aggregate number for 4 consq months for the first time in the C-S record.
What does it all mean? Maybe nothing, but it’s interesting.
eric – well, duh- anyone could have seen that coming a mile away. everyone who was involved in real estate understood that prices were artificially propped up and unqualified buyers were buying properties left and right. It is like me predicting that everyone is going to die one day. The fact is that now, in a dynamic market, you have to re-analyze everything. Even in the housing bust, there were many areas which were not that severely affected – these areas will start to come back this year and will continue to increase in value. Since these areas tend to be very sought after and coveted areas, most buyers are looking to get in a house in these cities/areas. To tell them that prices will continue to go down is doing them a dis -service. Prices in these great areas are going to start going up this year – they just are. Don’t take my word for it – just follow the prices this year – and don’t get mad at HD or G for convincing you to wait – blame yourself for listening to them.
PS the subject property is NOT in one of those areas – so yeah, if you want to live in the s loop, definitely wait a couple of years…
“was a little “over the top” in my response. Reading comprehension… my friend….. reading comprehension…..”
Dude, you admit to being “over the top” and challenge my assertion that you were being a jerk? Really?
But, as you always say, it isn’t about you–I was talking to someone else and you post happened to be the handy example.
“curious clio as to what workout you do that gets your “adrenaline pumping”… I believe you mean endorphins?”
sorry – only 60 seconds bw sets – I use my provocative posts to get my adrenaline pumping to enhance my workouts – nice catch
yeah the internet… what a rush
LOL
well sonies, you sure seem to use it quite a bit…
Clio, why do you try and convince everyone here that real estate is moving in the right direction? If it wasn’t for HD, G, and groove, I would have bought a condo already and would be losing money on it / underwater. It’s as if you think that by posting on here that people will believe you and go out and buy a house. Places like elysion and other top tier building will be fine, but buying anywhere else means you are stuck there for five to seven years before you will be able to sell at a profit. It’s better for us just to rent for now.
Clio, I agree it’s all about area. But I also know that no one, including yourself, can predict where prices will go. I never said they were definitely going to decrease, like you are saying about an increase. But I believe they will stay flat or even decrease more but it’s just my belief. I am not doing anyone a disservice as I am not saying they are definitely going to go down. I think you are more so when you says ‘they just are.’ With no rational behind ‘they just are.’ I at least gave reasons for my beliefs, mortgage rates up, the government doubling mortgage fees to $1,600 from $800 if your credit isn’t above 750, the sheer amount of short sales/forcelosures, the flood of houses coming onto the market from people who couldn’t sell last year, lots of things that don’t make me optimistic about the market. So my belief is we are in for a long haul and there’s no reason to rush.
“buying anywhere else means you are stuck there for five to seven years before you will be able to sell at a profit”
Yeah, the way it was at most times in most places before the last decade. Horrible, horrible thing. And then, only “at a profit” in nominal dollars in most cases.
Mike – no no no – I am not trying to convince anyone to buy or rent or sell or anything. I am trying to convince people to think for themselves and analyze their personal situation very carefully. If I was someone who was certain that I was going to be moving in 5 years or less, there is NO way I would buy anything. If I thought that I would stay somewhere for at least 7 years, I would DEFINITELY buy. If I liked the S. Loop, West Town, BT, WP, HP, LS, Uptown, Edgewtr, I would definitely wait at least 1 year. However, if I wanted to buy in Lakeview, LP, OT, GC, Kenilworth, Winnetka, Wilmette, Hinsdale, Oak Brook – you better believe that I would be looking and trying to buy RIGHT NOW!!!!
Mike HG – here’s a clue – they are real estate agents. Just listen to the propganda their national organization puts out, it’s like they are eternally optimistic even with horrible news reports. They get on tv and say how great it is to buy a home even as prices drop like a rock. The higher the price = the higher the commission.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3847-N-Lowell-Ave-60641/home/13458705
Feb 04, 2010 Listed (New) $675,000
Jan 25, 2011 Sold (MLS) $462,000
“One interesting thing about the C-S is looking at the tiered price numbers (SFHs only–apparently not available for condos). With breaks (as of NOV-10) of LOW= Under $171537, MID= $171537 – $287514, and HIGH = Over $287514, the LOW is getting killed, at 105.69, down from a MAR-07 high of 183.56, while the HIGH has broken thru to be higher than the aggregate number for 4 consq months for the first time in the C-S record.
What does it all mean? Maybe nothing, but it’s interesting.”
I’d find it personally more interesting if they broke the tiers out a little more finely. But it is interesting. I looked at this a couple months ago and remember that the low tier went up more than the other tiers during the bubble, but then came down even more than it had gone up. The drop in the low tier is huge as you say. I’m not sure how they are flagging properties that have suffered significant physical damage during foreclosure.
eric, there are a lot of things supporting the increase in prices in CERTAIN neighborhoods. I have gone over these things ad nauseum but I am POSITIVE that prices are going to start increasing in the best of the best buildings, neighborhoods and suburbs. If you want to live in these areas, buy now – if you don’t want to live in these areas, then wait.
eric – here is just one example of why I believe housing (especially in the more affluent areas) is going to start increasing:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Consumer-Confidence-Index-apf-1787804774.html?x=0
It means the rich are getting richer but the bottom has dropped out of the average buyer purchasing the average run of the mill property.
Consumer confidence data released today at six moth high.
“It means the rich are getting richer but the bottom has dropped out of the average buyer purchasing the average run of the mill property.”
HD – We agree about something!!! (yeah, sonies – now the endorphins are kicking in). but what constitutes a run of the mill property? Is it a 2/2 walk up in lincoln park, or a 2/1 walk up in bucktown? Who knows – but one thing is certain – IF you want to live in the most exclusive areas/buildings, try to actively search RIGHT now and if you see a deal, grab it – I just know that time is slipping away for these good areas. I live in these areas and see it all around me …
“well sonies, you sure seem to use it quite a bit…”
are you implying that if I used the internet less, it would be more of a rush when I did use it? ok!
Consumer confidence is not a good indicator, plus it’s well below the historical 90.
Anyway, this just came out and like I said, I’d go with the professionals rather than real estate agents on a chat board.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/wyss-home-prices-will-get-worse-2011-01-25
The recovery in home prices has not only stopped, it’s going in reverse. S&P’s Case-Shiller index finds prices in eight cities at their lowest since prices peaked, and “it’s going to get worse before it gets better,” says Standard & Poor’s chief economist David Wyss
haha I have a degree in economics, and there’s this old saying about economists… “Economists successfully predicted 2 of the last 10 recessions.”
Sonies you got the old saying backward.
eric, any “expert” that speaks of real estate in such broad terms is no expert at all. Real estate is local and property specific. To make generalized broad based predictions is irresponsible and ignorant.
PS – I am not a real estate agent or broker.
or perhaps its Economists have successfully predicted nine of the last five recessions
nobody really knows… LOL
Sonies, so 2 out of 10 recessions predicted by economists. Yet your an economist predicting home prices are going up? Well I guess you have a 20% chance of being right.
Oh but let me add I agree not to listen to realtors or the NAR who’s livelyhood is at stake. Do your own due diligence and cost analysis
and no, i don’t think prices will go up any time soon, i think they will slowly trickle downward or stabilize for a few more years, then due to all the excess supply being bought up and having nothing being built right now, prices will slowly go back to tracking inflation (which could be anywhere from 3-7% at that point)
“Sonies, so 2 out of 10 recessions predicted by economists. Yet your an economist predicting home prices are going up? Well I guess you have a 20% chance of being right.”
Eric – is this your logic? A=B, B=C, so therefore A=C? Works well in theory but not in real life – we’re not in school anymore – this is REAL LIFE – lose the equations/mathematical analyses and join the real world (and I’m not talking MTV)
Sonies, well let me know when I can buy in the south loop. I like the 235 van buren building but the prices seem high for what you get. Although they appear to be selling, I can’t buy quite yet though.
Mike, “If it wasn’t for HD, G, and groove, I would have bought a condo already and would be losing money on it / underwater. It’s as if you think that by posting on here that people will believe you and go out and buy a house. Places like elysion and other top tier building will be fine, but buying anywhere else means you are stuck there for five to seven years before you will be able to sell at a profit. It’s better for us just to rent for now.”
Not sure what condo you would have bought recently that you would be underwater and losing money on, im getting a 10%+ return on mine and thats after paying taxes and assesments.
Or if you know any similiar buildings down there that might have deals. The main thing about the 235 building is I like the location.
here we go…… the birth of another bubble….
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/IMF-US-could-privatize-Fannie-apf-2226621439.html?x=0
Clio just point out something, you own a RE company and many properties one of which (the farm) you told us you are trying to sell. You are a LL and from the tone of the posts on it dont like the inconvenience very much, and seems you would rather sell the places (for a profit) than continue being a LL. you have a place at the palm you dont like and would rather be in the drake.
it seems the propaganda your pushing is for your own benefit and you drill on and on and on about the same rhetoric. Its funny how your position is affecting your speech.
PS converse is true for HD
Although i gotta say I wished the public actually felt the sentiment that people here are always spouting about the market going down more and what not…. honestly it would make more opportunities for me.
But to be honest i really am starting to see those deals dry up… Aside from clio it doesn’t seem like any other folks here are actually actively putting in offers on properties and following the market. I mean prove me wrong, if you have.
But i can say in the last 3 months ive closed on two properties, am under contract on an REO in lakeview and a short sale in east rogers park. In the last 3 weeks ive put out offers 5 properties. Is anyone else here actually that active?
Nine of the last five is more how it goes I think.
“It means the rich are getting richer but the bottom has dropped out of the average buyer purchasing the average run of the mill property.”
Do you really think that the “average run of the mill” SFH in Metro Chicago is under $171k, as a NOV-10 sale price? That smacks of exurbs and crap inner suburban/city locations to me. We’re talking about places that are ~2x the metro median family income and less. Seems below average, to me.
Also, on the tiered pricing, Atlanta is *outrageous* with LOW (under $125k) at 1993 levels (69.25) and off *over* 30% since NOV-09.
“I like the 235 van buren building but the prices seem high for what you get.”
oh Eric, I hope G doesn’t see this. He went off about this building about a year ago because other cmk properties are getting hammered with short sales and foreclosures. Plus there are 700 plus units so there is a lot of competition when going to sell. My buddy rents from an owner in thus building and he is having problem with cracks developing between the wood floor planks. Great location if you work downtown though.
I think everyone is done discussing this unit — next!
Ok Clio, good luck with your real estate sales, glad you’re not my agent you sound like a jerk. I’m done with these chat boards because of rude people like you and your misinformation and swearing and idiocy. I don’t know why chat boards bring out the worst in people.
groove, come on – I am not that stupid to believe that posting on cribchatter is going to result in someone buying my 15 acre property in St. Charles (btw, it is the cheapest divisible piece of land of this size in the chicagoland area). I would be better off working on actually selling the property.
HG, have you heard anything else about that building? I know it’s newer and took a tour of it last year. They did take me to an empty unit on a higher flow and the floor was buckling. The agent said they are fixing it so I’m worried about their construction. I wonder how many have sold there, if you have any idea, I greatly appreciate your help. I like the location a lot as I’m tired of commuting. But don’t want to buy a dog.
“Ok Clio, good luck with your real estate sales, glad you’re not my agent you sound like a jerk”
reading comprehension – I am not an agent or broker..
“I don’t know why chat boards bring out the worst in people.”
uhhh – people like you…
no, seriously eric – don’t take anything too personal on these sites. You need to develop a thicker skin… these are just fun and friendly debates. Life is hard enough as it is – take the information from this site and use it to your advantage. At the same time, have some fun on the site, blow off some steam, and go on with your life. It is what most of us here do….
eric, the area around 235 wvb,is pretty dead on evenings and weekends. except for cactus which turns into a strange dance club I think. If I were you I’d rent a place first to see if you like the solitude.
Yeah Clio, you are so knowledable, I’m going to take advise from someone who posts comments like the ones below? I guess you learned respect when you were in jail. Anyway, good luck with whatever your deal is, you need it, bye:
‘ I remember once getting carted off to jail on state street (a little south of here ) and having to walk back to congress the next morning (past this area).’
‘ARE YOU F’ING KIDDING ME WITH THIS BS?’
‘stupid Case Schiller numbers’
‘Wtf does this tell a buyer who is looking for a SFH in Lincoln Park or someone who wants a luxury condo in the gold coast? Wtf does it tell someone that wants to buy in Kenilworth or Hinsdale? No – HD, you are WRONG’
‘what a bunch of uninformed morons ‘
“groove, come on – I am not that stupid to believe that posting on cribchatter is going to result in someone buying my 15 acre property”
no i know your “not” that stupid, but didnt you have to do a psych rotation way back? now you dont think your position in RE affects YOUR outlook?
maybe, maybe not. middle stuff isn’t selling and a lot of the low end crap is. that’s dragging down the price for everyone.
And a lot of the Chicago metro area is crap: the south side, the south west suburbs, the exurbs, the inner ring suburbs, the west side, the ridiculously far out there lake county or will county properties. realistically there are only a handful of decent areas in the entire region to live: north shore, north side, a handful of nw suburbs, 1/2 of dupage county (maybe even less now), orland etc, and a handful of south side places, with random stuff like OP/RF in between. Otherwise it’s just a lot of crap. you may not count bensenville or hanover park or hoffamn estates or country club hills in your analysis, but those places are cheap now. really really cheap.
“Do you really think that the “average run of the mill” SFH in Metro Chicago is under $171k, as a NOV-10 sale price? That smacks of exurbs and crap inner suburban/city locations to me. We’re talking about places that are ~2x the metro median family income and less. Seems below average, to me.”
eric I bet you could find an affordable rental in 235 w Van buren so you can try before you buy and if you like it, and your monthly nuts are about the same as buying, pull the trigger!
“oh Eric, I hope G doesn’t see this.”
SHHH. It’s like calling the boogieman.
HD:
That Lowell house looks like a good deal at that price. Not right on top of the Kennedy, mostly reno’d, but sort of an unusual floorplan. If the buyers are going to live in it a while, they should be pleased.
Still don’t know what to say about the kitchen layout, just as when you posted it before.
Here’s a move in condition 3/1 home in Hanover Park for $126,000
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Hanover-Park/7032-West-Ave-60133/home/13749584
here’s a nice 3/2 in bensenville for $174,900
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Bensenville/284-E-Crest-Ave-60106/home/18161384
Good advice CH. This is a desolated area non business hours.
Clio,
I assume that you bought the farm as a future development play. Have you looked at subdividing the house out (priced to sell) and just hold the land? My brother is in a similar situation with a family property in Westchester County.
Sonies, I see on CL they go for about $1450 a month for a 1-bedroom, seems kinda steep but I don’t know the rental prices in that area. I agree that maybe it’s better to rent and check it out and see how I feel in a year. But I can rent up north for a lot cheaper but then I don’t get the feel for the building. Do you know any other rental sites besides craigslist? I’ve never rented before. All that’s ever on there is ‘the stryker group’ when I search 235 van buren. And then their ‘235 van buren’ reference isn’t even for the building they are trying to rent, it’s for some other building so I won’t go with them. But if you know someone else I’d appreciate the help.
3/2 in Burbank for $133,500
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Burbank/8137-Mulligan-Ave-60459/home/12555164
May 07, 2004 Sold (Public Records) $202,000
These are all real homes that sold in regular suburbs in the Chicago area where shockingly! real people live. hundreds of thousands if not millions of people live in the chicago area like this.
Eric, check out the website padmapper.com if you are location price sensitive for rentals, its the best i’ve seen that lets you combine both.
“here’s a nice 3/2 in bensenville for $174,900”
is there even a “bensenville” anymore? I thought daley bought all of it.
anon(tfo) it’s a good deal for sure. A lot of space for the. I personally think it should have been in the high 300’s but there is hardly comparable inventory right now in the area. If there were 3 or 4 more homes on the market comparable to this (and not priced ridiculously) I believe it would have sold for less. I cannot stress how little decently priced inventory there is right now. Everyone renovated their home in the area in the 2000’s and now they want that money back plus some for their time.
“I assume that you bought the farm as a future development play. Have you looked at subdividing the house out (priced to sell) and just hold the land? My brother is in a similar situation with a family property in Westchester County.”
Valasko – it is a great opportunity for someone that is willing to put in some time and effort. I just am too lazy and value my fun time over making a few hundred thousand dollars in profit (not trying to be a snob – but that amount -or any is NOT going to change my lifestyle one bit). Again, it is an awesome opportunity and would definitely bring a 200-500k profit if done right.
uck HD- those houses make me depressed
and whats up with all the streets being like 5 degrees angled or crooked compared to true north?
An undated short sale 3/2 in Buffalo Grove sold for $220,000 in Nov. 2010.
It sold for $234,000 in 2001.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Buffalo-Grove/501-Arborgate-Ln-60089/home/17636933
“the ridiculously far out there lake county”
Lake County isn’t part of “Chicago” according to C-S. I’m sure that Crystal (Meth) Lake would only make things “worse”, tho.
“you may not count bensenville or hanover park or hoffamn estates or country club hills in your analysis”
HE makes me sad both in location and housing stock, B’ville and Hanover are on the downside of marginally acceptable ‘burbs–whats the HS district for Hanover? Fenton isn’t exactly a winner.
And CC Hills? South/east of the I&M is dying, quickly.
“valasko – it is a great opportunity for someone that is willing to put in some time and effort. I just am too lazy and value my fun time over making a few hundred thousand dollars in profit (not trying to be a snob – but that amount -or any is NOT going to change my lifestyle one bit). Again, it is an awesome opportunity and would definitely bring a 200-500k profit if done right.”
I don’t know Clio, holding the house seems like much more work, than dumping the house and holding the land. Good luck anyway……
“Mike HG – here’s a clue – they are real estate agents. Just listen to the propganda their national organization puts out, it’s like they are eternally optimistic even with horrible news reports. They get on tv and say how great it is to buy a home even as prices drop like a rock. The higher the price = the higher the commission.”
Not necessarily true…its better for agents to convince buyers to lower the price so they get a sale…it costs the agent more in marketing to keep the price higher….most agents are now trying to get their sellers to deeply discount because a small deal is better than none.
A 3,000 sq ft home on an acre and a half wooded property – in COOK COUNTY. $452,000 less than the price of some of the 2/2’s we see featured here. This was a builder’s home until it was lost in foreclosure. The land alone sold for $400,000 in 1992.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Barrington/9-Hawthorne-Rd-60010/home/13904897
I would love to live on 1.5 acres of wooded land in cook county. However, I don’t like the $14,000 in taxes.
Yes those bensenville, BG, and hanover park homes SUCK but people live there. Your secretaries live there, the guy who does your hvac lives there, the guy who drives the truck who delivers your food to the grocery store lives there, your mechanic lives there, the carpenter who installed the woodwork in your apartment lives there, etc.
and you’re right, lake county is not included in the cs for some odd reason, i forgot about that.
Rolling meadows foreclosure:
$269,000 in December 2010
$300,000 brand new in 2000
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Rolling-Meadows/3750-Wilke-Rd-60008/home/12812428
hd – how about this awesome property – 4000 sq ft home, 3 car garage, 15 stall barn on 15 divisible acres (R1 – 40,000 sq ft lot) surrounded by luxury million dollar homes on 3 sides!!!
This is the steal of the century!!
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Saint-Charles/3N645-Ponderosa-Dr-60175/home/17970713
“groove, come on – I am not that stupid to believe that posting on cribchatter is going to result in someone buying my 15 acre property”
no i know your “not” that stupid, but didnt you have to do a psych rotation way back? now you dont think your position in RE affects YOUR outlook? just look at your above post about your farm
eric, there are a few listed here along the left side of the page
http://www.urbanrealestate.com/property/235-W-Van-Buren-Unit-3313-CHICAGO-IL-60605-FHNFMBOT5KNQI.html
groove – i did that for your benefit!!!
“I like the 235 van buren building but the prices seem high for what you get.”
Eric – I rent at 235 Van Buren and while I like the proximity to my work I would never buy there. The building is primarily college students and there is often a lot of loud music that I can hear within my unit. There are also large gaps under the front doors of the units so when you are in the hallway you can clearly hear conversations going on within the units. One of my neighbors smokes pot all day and night and the smell permeates throughout the whole floor and often into the front of my unit. They try to mask the smell with floral potpourri. I would say the majority of residents on my floor are renters.
I also have cracks developing between my wood floors like Mike HG mentioned above. Also, my unit and another unit suffered damage because my upstairs neighbors (college student renters) went to sleep after washing and their washing machine leaked for over 8 hours.
Also, with so many units during peak times it can take a long time to get an elevator.
“surrounded by luxury million dollar homes on 3 sides!!!”
I see $350k and $600-750k homes on three sides. If you’re talking about what can be had, today.
Barrington is in cook county? wow you learn something new every day
Clio, nice I like the self promotion of the Farm, but geez it does like you got a great deal on it. Are you sure its not worth holding onto for a couple more years?
anon – the houses were built and sold for 1 million – yeah, prices have come down about 25%. but look at the price of the “farm” – it was sold in 2005 for 900k and is not offered for 599k – that is a decrease of 33% – a bigger discount than surrounding properties. Any way you look at it – it is a great deal!!!
“I would love to live on 1.5 acres of wooded land in cook county. However, I don’t like the $14,000 in taxes.”
If you’re going to be 800 yards from Lake County, why not live in Lake County and avoid the Cook nonsense?
If I had *any* interest in Barrington, that would have been an interesting option.
And as much as I though the BG location was nice for a bland suburban spot–backing up on the park and all–I *hate* that RM location.
Also, it’s not that I don’t realize many, many people live in B’ville, Hanover, etc, but they aren’t really substitutable locations for most here–where OIP is a maybe and even, at a stretch, Barrington and Buff Grove. Got to at least pick places with above-average schools and commuting locations for Loop, and “Edge City” offices.
@ Clio
“clio on January 25th, 2011 at 11:24 am
anon – the houses were built and sold for 1 million – yeah, prices have come down about 25%. but look at the price of the “farm” – it was sold in 2005 for 900k and is not offered for 599k – that is a decrease of 33% – a bigger discount than surrounding properties. Any way you look at it – it is a great deal!!!”
and
“clio on August 9th, 2010 at 11:17 am
“Hard to think it would go for that much more than the 2008 price though.”
Why must everyone judge what something is worth by what someone paid for it previously. This practice does no good to buyers. For example, what if the seller had bought the place for 1million dollars (exaggerating, obviously). That would make people think the price is a good deal”…
“the houses were built and sold for 1 million”
Hmm. 14 places that could be called “around” the land. 9 have prior sale prices shown in RF–highest is $965 for this one:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/St-Charles/3N661-James-Fenimore-Cooper-Ln-60175/home/16930439
which is now asking $1.05mm, having been as low as $765k last year without selling. So, consider me a Missourian.
chichow – when in rome…….
anon- your nitpicking is going to get you nowhere fast (as if you already haven’t experienced that). Look at the big picture and you will be more successful/happy
“Look at the big picture and you will be more successful/happy”
judging by the area i think anon lives, he is pretty darn successful and extra happy.
“judging by the area i think anon lives, he is pretty darn successful and extra happy.”
groove, groove, groove – money and success do not equal happiness – isn’t that what you always say?
“judging by the area i think anon lives, he is pretty darn successful and extra happy.”
That’s not what makes him happy, it’s all those iP* devices. This also isn’t nitpicking (the subjunctive thingy was).
“your nitpicking is going to get you nowhere fast ”
Thanks for admitting you were wrong. Just need to work on your syntax a bit–still muddy.
“That’s not what makes him happy, it’s all those iP* devices.”
Also: beer. good beer. And days not in front of a computer.
@clio
“chichow – when in rome…….”
so basically you’ll say whatever is conv….
““your nitpicking is going to get you nowhere fast ”
when you’re wrong, you’re wrong. perhaps you should retreat to your psycho aphorisms about how $$$ doesn’t matter
“Also: beer. good beer. And days not in front of a computer.”
…uhhh so in other words you are never happy!!!
Clio – you’re marketing the farm to the wrong crowd. If you want it sold, you need to get it to the attention of a RE that specializes in farm properties. It’s priced right for someone who wants to be in the area with horses and isn’t afraid of doing their own handiwork.
Article today on Bloomberg:
U.S. home prices have reached a bottom and may be set to rise in the first half as buyers take advantage of increased affordability, said Karl Case, the economist who co-founded the S&P/Case-Shiller home price index.
“Prices have gone flat, bouncing around at what I think is essentially a bottom,” Case, a retired professor of economics at Wellesley College, said in a radio interview today on “Bloomberg Surveillance.” “We’re really going to have to wait to see what the spring market brings.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-25/u-s-home-prices-now-flat-may-see-first-half-rise-economist-case-says.html
Chris – so basically we have flip flopping and mis-represented/misinterpreted data from THE SAME SOURCE (Shiller) on the same day?!! Can anyone else see the irony and ridiculousness of this entire analysis and this clown (Shiller)?
anonemoose – thanks for the post – if you know of anyone interested in the property or representing it – I would pay a finders fee!!
uhhh – I meant “Case” – not shiller
“I see $350k and $600-750k homes on three sides. If you’re talking about what can be had, today.”
Would that have something to do with the sewage treatement plant on the 4th side?
“Would that have something to do with the sewage treatement plant on the 4th side?”
I was considering that side closed off b/c it basically is. But that would be a factor, too.
Clio – email me at mgfjwriting at gmail dot com. I’d rather not clutter up CC with the off topic. Put your screen name in the email so I know it’s you.
“Would that have something to do with the sewage treatement plant on the 4th side?”
It shares no borders with the water treatment facility. Now who is spouting false information? Also, the property anon highlighted that is on sale for 1.05 million actually backs up to that water treatment facility with no negative effects (yeah, with an “e”, anon).
anon: “which is now asking $1.05mm, having been as low as $765k last year without selling. So, consider me a Missourian.”
clio: “Now who is spouting false information? Also, the property anon highlighted that is on sale for 1.05 million actually backs up to that water treatment facility with no negative effects”
Consider me a Missourian, too.
“Consider me a Missourian, too.”
No – I just consider you to be a miserable negative person who probably takes pleasure in other peoples misfortunes and loves to point out other people’s flaws in order to build up his poor self esteem.
“judging by the area i think anon lives, he is pretty darn successful and extra happy.”
groove, groove, groove – money and success do not equal happiness – isn’t that what you always say?”
never said anything about money equating happiness. if you knew the hood (i think he is in) you would understand my statement.
and remember my internet friend, pot/kettle black thing.
“It shares no borders with the water treatment facility.”
Now who is spouting false information? That would be a wastewater, or sewage, treatment plant. How many feet away is it?
“No – I just consider you to be a miserable negative person who probably takes pleasure in other peoples misfortunes and loves to point out other people’s flaws in order to build up his poor self esteem.”
You want it both ways again, clio. If I take pleasure in your misfortunes as you say, how could I be miserable?
G- it is at least 2000 feet away – (yeah – that is about 80 standard chicago lots). Also, I had no idea what it was for 2 years – i thought it was a farm of some sort – there is no smell, no large ugly buildings/structures. In fact, it is a plus because nothing will ever be built on the site – adding to the open beauty.
@Clio
clio on January 25th, 2011 at 12:25 pm
“Consider me a Missourian, too.”
No – I just consider you to be a miserable negative person who probably takes pleasure in other peoples misfortunes and loves to point out other people’s flaws in order to build up his poor self esteem.
and so starts the Ad Hominem attacks…
“In fact, it is a plus because nothing will ever be built on the site – adding to the open beauty.”
Funny!
I do think you are underestimating how close the leach field is, but *that* isn’t a big deal, to me.
“and so starts the Ad Hominem attacks…”
You’re just jealous of his money and success and should go make your own, chichow.
anon – I’m sorry – did I miss something – when did you become the expert on pricing and real estate in St. Charles? What else is it about you that we don’t know? What are you going to do now – teach me how stop someone from bleeding to death? Wow – what a frickin talented guy!!!!!
@Clio……. this is WHY you shouldn’t post your properties here…… you open yourself for attach; which may or may not be justified..
@Clio
“clio on January 25th, 2011 at 12:46 pm
anon – I’m sorry – did I miss something – when did you become the expert on pricing and real estate in St. Charles? What else is it about you that we don’t know? What are you going to do now – teach me how stop someone from bleeding to death? Wow – what a frickin talented guy!!!!!”
and so starts the Needling…
“when did you become the expert on pricing and real estate in St. Charles?”
When I learned that “sold for 750,000” is not the same as “sold for a million”, which, I think, would have been around 35 years ago.
Look, I’m (partly) taking your side on the water treatment plant thing, but, notwithstanding that $250,000 doesn’t matter to *you*, you can’t claim that places that sold for $750k sold for 1/3 more w/o expecting a correction. Especially when you make it *extremely* easy by linking to Redfin, which lays it all out. And we won’t even drill down on how 2 sides isn’t the same as 3, and I find *nothing* over $500k on 2 of the four sides of that (almost) quadrangle.
” there is no smell, no large ugly buildings/structures. In fact, it is a plus because nothing will ever be built on the site – adding to the open beauty”
I guess its true… rich people’s shit doesn’t stink! 8)
ok, ok – enough fun for a while. thanks for playing with me, guys….
anon – the property is a bargain for any investor/developer – period. Whether the houses are 500, 700 or 1 million – think about it – 15 acres of R1 zoned property (1 acre lots) – even if you get 7, 2 acre lots at 150k a piece (supporting a 450k new house) – you are still looking at a substantial 6 figure profit. It is really a no-brainer for anyone who wants to park some money, do a little work and perhaps wait 1 -2 years. Seriously, we are talking at least a 300k profit (and more if you are willing to wait 5 years).
@anon(tfo)
“You’re just jealous of his money and success and should go make your own, chichow.”
You’re right, of course. 99th percentile isn’t enough.
I should move beyond the HNWI and strive for the VHNWI and UHNWI,
but only after having a grotto with a waterfall put in
“I should move beyond the HNWI and strive for the VHNWI and UHNWI,
but only after having a grotto with a waterfall put in”
Number 1 – I find it very relaxing and Number 2 – how do you know about my waterfall? I have NEVER mentioned that before….
“when did you become the expert on pricing and real estate in St. Charles?”
Given the listing history of the farm, I’d take anon’s expertise over clio anyday.
listed 6/21/2007 “$1,295,000” “$1,195,000” “$1,050,000” cancelled 10/25/2007
listed 8/4/2007 “$1,195,000” “$1,050,000” cancelled 10/25/2007
listed 10/31/2007 “$899,900” “$799,900” “$749,000” cancelled 1/17/2008
listed 10/31/2007 “$899,900” “$849,000” cancelled 1/4/2008
listed 1/17/2008 “$749,900” “$689,000” cancelled 2/12/2008
listed 2/12/2008 “$689,900” cancelled 3/7/2008
listed 3/31/2008 “$590,000” “$566,700” “$555,400” contract 7/9/2008
closed 8/5/2008 “$530,000”
listed 9/8/2008 “$999,000” “$799,000” “$699,000” cancelled 3/17/2009
listed 3/17/2009 “$599,000” cancelled 5/1/2009
listed 5/14/2009 “$699,000” “$599,000” cancelled 7/15/2009
listed 8/25/2009 “$649,000” cancelled 1/6/2010
listed 2/16/2010 “$679,000” “$599,000” still active
clio — Bob Schiller and Karl Case have had divergent expectations on home prices for at least a few months now. Schiller thinks the market is going to drop quite a bit further while Case believes it has stabilized. That said, I don’t believe the fact that each of them as individuals has different expectations about the future does much to cast aspersions on the CS Index, which is backward rather than forward looking.
Karl Case was bottom calling back in 2008.
CLIO – your farm is out there, way out there. It’s closer to elburn than st. charles despite the st. charles address. You’re 3 or 4 miles WEST of 31 which for me is way out there. I love St. Charles, Geneva – I would live out there if I worked out there; but your farm is too much, too far out. There’s no shortage of land out in that direction.
The kane county judicial center is near your farm, but I get out to kane county about once or twice a year. I don’t practice out there so it makes no sense for me to live out there. if I did live out there, i wouldn’t want to live on 15 acres or pay $15,000 a year in taxes.
” I would live out there if I worked out there; but your farm is too much, too far out. There’s no shortage of land out in that direction.”
Really? – take a look at the house prices in the 60175 area code and tell me that property out there is not desirable – and then take a look at the land availability of ANY property over 10 acres in that vicinity – yeah, most of them are well over 1 million dollars….. now speak….
Clio, your farm is 45 miles from downtown. If you are that far away, you might as well consider Wisconsin or Indiana. And there are dozens of 15+ acre lots 45 miles from downtown in NW Indiana that are not only 1/3 the price, but have the advantage of a shorter commute into downtown.
“And there are dozens of 15+ acre lots 45 miles from downtown in NW Indiana that are not only 1/3 the price, but have the advantage of a shorter commute into downtown.”
And (depending on one’s circumstances) tax advantages, too.
But it would still make you a hoosier.
Or a cheesehead.
but we’re all fibs.
“But it would still make you a hoosier.”
Is that better or worse than being an exurbanite?
Did you know:
Calling someone a Hoosier down by St. Louis is the equivalent to calling someone white trash.
The more you know!
“closer to elburn”
Mmmmmm, sausage.
If I wanted 15 acres I’d buy this in the kettle moraine
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/W5198-Bluff-Rd_Eagle_WI_53119_M85304-82823
subdivision is irrelevant at this point in our real estate bubble.
“Did you know:”
I did, in fact! Have family from St Louis.
Realizing Case-Shiller is an average for a large market, I think it can be useful as one data point for individual property analysis in certain situations. For instance, townhomes in River West — few, if any recent comps and virtually everything was built in the midst of the bubble, so there’s no pre-bubble price comparisons. I’d say the neighborhood’s desirability has been roughly the same over the past few years. So, everything else being equal, factoring a 2005 price by the change in CSI should give me a ballpark. Granted, that’s not true if the ‘hood has become sigificantly more or less desirable, if there’s been a big change in housing stock (rehabs, conversions, etc.), or other major changes in that immediate market.
totally off-topic, but does anyone have any info on the development at dearborn and burton in the GC? i drive by it all the time and there are no ads, etc.
“I did, in fact! Have family from St Louis.”
My inlaws are from there, what high school did they go to? (haha)
“what high school did they go to? (haha)”
Always the first question, innit?
“Clio, your farm is 45 miles from downtown.”
Tipster – here’s a tip: not everyone works downtown!!!
“Tipster – here’s a tip: not everyone works downtown!!!”
i dont work downtown. and yet i still wouldnt live in st charles
The Vetro just crushed this bldg, both in structure and on paper for the current owners. I have a window bank that looks south from right there and I feel bad for the “penthouse” owners in the bldg everyday. The only units in the bldg that were probably worth a damn were the ones with W-NW exposure for city views and previous open space, now there’s nobody with a view, absent maybe upper floors on the north wall. The penthouses also had some private roof space with either a full room off the patio or at least a landing and small spot for a wet bar. Now they’ve got about 18 floors with at least 2 units each of east exposure from the Vetro peering down on them.
“totally off-topic, but does anyone have any info on the development at dearborn and burton in the GC? i drive by it all the time and there are no ads, etc.”
Southeast corner of Dearborn and Burton, facing Dearborn, about 1 building south? I’d like to know too. The basic building has been finished for at least three years, but the windows weren’t installed until last summer. Someone must be losing a mint on carrying costs, and I’m not sure how well it will sell. Parking is fairly bad in that area (especially with Latin closing a block of parking during the day), and it isn’t obvious to me that this building has spots for its several units.
HD… sweet find on that Kettle Moraine property. It even has a craft shop and sauna. And the home is nicely removed from the road.
I would be pleased with just 3 acres myself. But 15 will do.
On my post above, see dude for better information:
http://cribchatter.com/?p=9903#comment-123968
I love kettle moraine. great for mountain biking and camping.
Jp3chicago – if you are reading this:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Park-Ridge/910-Hastings-St-60068/home/13649894
The owner of this midcentury modern home is the same person who bought the shoreline home in June.
From one midcentury modern home to another.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Park-Ridge/100-Shoreline-Dr-60068/home/13648015
“Given the listing history of the farm, I’d take anon’s expertise over clio anyday.”
G- thanks for posting the listing history of my farm. Unfortunately you failed to realize that several of those listings were from before I owned the place. The people had 1.4 million into the farm (after buying it for 900 in 2005 and improving the property). I bought it after them and am only asking 599k for the entire package (the other prices reflects the property plus incentives/improvements). You seem to be extremely interested in the property – if you want any further information, my broker would be more than happy to show you the place.
RE: the properties in park ridge that hd posted a few posts above….
hd – what are you trying to do – make Jp3 mad/jealous that he didn’t get these properties? he already knew about them and expressed regret that he didn’t get them – don’t rub salt into the wound. And to the others – this is what happens when you listen to HD – basically the houses that you would have bought but were waiting to “come down” in price get sold and you lose.
“If you think the CS-chicago is going below 100 you’re insane in the membrane”
Better put on the Cypress Hill and smoke some ganja–I’ve been calling for a CSINA low of 94-95 for awhile now.
HD, I know you are an attorney, but you would be one heck of a real estate agent. The properties that you locate are always interesting and directly on point. I’d hate to live in Bensenville (etc), but it was interesting to see the listings. Thanks.
HD- I second that. That Barrington Hills house was INSANE. $450k for that? On 1.5 acres and near downtown Barrington with good schools? Wow. I’ve spent a lot of time in that area and never seen anything priced that low (and in that good of condition) before.
Well, HD – it looks like you “win” – you got the cribchatter brain trust amazed at the barrington house you posted. What I don’t understand is why is a 3000 sq ft house on 1.5 acres at 452k an INSANE deal while a 4500sq ft house (same age) on 15 (FIFTEEN) acres with a 15 stall barn is not? Both areas are EXTREMELY similar in their demographics and both suburbs are the same exact distance from Downtown Chicago. What, then makes the barrington house so much more “INSANE” and unbelievable than the St. Charles house?
oh, for those of you that don’t want to go through the 100s of posts on this thread to find the link, here are the two places. What makes one so much better than the other?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Barrington/9-Hawthorne-Rd-60010/home/13904897
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Saint-Charles/3N645-Ponderosa-Dr-60175/home/17970713
Who wants 15 acres? What a pain. Take away 13 acres and maybe it sells. Otherwise- the maintenance and everything associated with it is just too much.
The Barrington house is located just a few minutes from the cute downtown Barrington (and train station.) I don’t know where the St. Charles house is located- if it’s that close to a major shopping area.
One note is HD pitched the COOK COUNTY location of the one house as an asset. For taxation (& ideological) purposes I consider that a liability.
Clio or whoever you may post as indignantly in response to this: You continually trying to unload your very poor investment decision here(buy my idiotic land dev’t oppt’y in greater st charles – ok its near a ‘water treatment’ facility – home buyers will ignore that (hey I did) & I’ll finance you and my next buyer when you default.!!)is the 1st reason I had an issue with your postings and the main reason I post here (S – my 5th post?). I do land development all day every day. It is good that most no nothing posers who pretend location is irrelevent were sent packing since people who had so little understanding of basic concepts but could close screwed up this business. I don’t tout my bad investments in antiquated x-ray machines on medical blogs, puffing don’t cha know these old machines kill cancer cells & berating bloggers who call me out for general tooli-ness. But hey that’s me. Again not hatin’ on ya just attemptin’ ta keep ya real (sic).
“What, then makes the barrington house so much more “INSANE” and unbelievable than the St. Charles house”
umm one is updated and one needs to be updated and also the barn and land will need work.
one is east of 59 and one is west of 31. seriously west of 31!!!!!!!
bri bri is right i love the cute downtown, the business are actual cute houses!
and randall road is everything thats wrong with the burbs.
not saying there isnt somebody for the ranch but if had to choose one barrington would be it
the inside of the barrington house looks nicer than yours clio. and there are more pictures. but I like a lot of your outdoor pics.
you should see about getting lalapalooza or one of the other summer concert fests to rent it.
Southbound,
Several things:
1. I am not “touting” my properties here – I’m not that stupid/ignorant. I try to understand issues that people may have so that I can become more educated in how to market it. I realize that this was a big mistake because most of the negative comments have to do with location (even though most houses in the neighborhood are 500-1 million and those people have no problem with the location) – this is just the wrong site to get constructive criticism on a suburban place – most people are city dwellers which is great!
2. As a “land developer” or real estate person, you should know that you don’t “own” the real estate market or people’s opinions on it. You may have some knowledge in the area but so do others – again, I would love to compare success stories in real estate – I probably have done much better than you – and it is just my hobby!!
3. As for constantly trying to out me on the internet – you really need to watch it. You think you know who I am and what I do (as do others) but you really don’t. Half information is worse than no information. What power does it give you to intimate that you know who I am? Do you think it is sly/ingenious/clever? Well, nobody is impressed – especially me since you only got it half right.
4. If you don’t like my posts – don’t read them. Seriously, you need to learn to ignore things you don’t like. Really – if you don’t like me or the things I say, why the heck would you challenge me and make me respond? Like people say on here all the time: “stop feeding the troll” (the troll being your interpretation of what I am).
Sorry for the long post, “just attemptin’ ta keep ya real”!
“G- thanks for posting the listing history of my farm. Unfortunately you failed to realize that several of those istings were from before I owned the place”
That’s why it’s “the” listing history, and not “your” listing history, clio. Your comprehension problem appears, again.
The point is, it’s hilarious.
G- once again, finding humor in another person’s pain – nice. In all honesty, whether the place sells or doesn’t, it really isn’t going to affect me financially AT ALL. However, the bigger picture that you should be concerned about is your obvious overall sense of frustration/jealousy/anger that makes you such a petty and mean spirited person. You really should try to work on that – not for my sake, but for yours. It is becoming apparent that something is really stressing you out – you need to get to the bottom of it before it starts creating havoc on your life (personal, professional, and social).
My sig other lives in St. Charles. I go to see him and he comes to see me, and over the years, I’ve watched the Fox Valley grow and change, some for better, some for worse. Your farm should have been purchased as a farm. If you were a horsey guy, this would have been perfect for you. That you bought it, riding on the coattails of some of the most ridiculous development out there, hoping to make a lot of money on it by having it purchased for MORE development is what makes it sad to me. Look at the subdivisions to the north, with all the ridiculous gracious and literate and aspirational-living famous author street names! Laura Ingalls Wilder Rd. Thoreau, Whitman, Dickinson! It’s almost as bad as the crappy subdivision of frame townhomes in Geneva that has it’s streets named Rockefeller and Vanderbilt! Barrington at least has a long history of being home to Richie Rich’s, while that Campton Hills part of St. Charles was nothing but farms a decade ago, and has proven itself to be an annoyance to the Regular Joe’s of Kane County. If you worked at FermiLab, or CDH, your farm would be a great place to live. But the commute to Chicago daily is crazymaking. There’s a reason I say my boyfriend lives in IOWA.
“That you bought it, riding on the coattails of some of the most ridiculous development out there, hoping to make a lot of money on it by having it purchased for MORE development is what makes it sad to me”
Actually, no – I bought it as a place to board my two horses and had visions of me spending relaxing weekends there. Unfortunately, I am a total city guy and do not even go out that way to check on the property (I haven’t been there since august!!). The development aspect was just an added bonus. Also the barrington vs. st. charles issue was interesting to me because that is where I board my horses (which, unfortunately, I sold because I never got out there to ride) – but I DO have to agree – Barrington is beautiful and I would choose it any day over St. Charles!!
Few people in st. Charles commute to Chicago. They’re commuting to the I-88 corridor, schaumburg, oak brook, etc. Of course there are stories of people making the two hour commute (or 75 train ride every day) but I think it’s safe to say a majority of the people out there don’t commute to chicago. Or at least from what i’ve known and seen. The thing out there I don’t like however are the lack of sidewalks and outdoor amenities. People don’t jog or ride their bikes on 31, there are no pathways following the entire river, the side streets all dead end into subdivisions. For someone who rides their bike around the neighborhoods of the city during the summertime, living out there and being driving only is not somethign I’m interested in.
clio I think the biggest thing wrong with your property is that the view from your house is nothing but FUGLY suburban style Mcmansions, and oh, its in the middle of nowhere, and the practicality of maintaining such a huge house and all that land isn’t something that appeals to everyone anymore, as people have to work a lot more to make the same amount of money and probably don’t want to deal with the hassle.
your best bet is some sr. citizens that have money (because they are the only ones left with any) who wants to have a huge compound for their western burbanite children to come and visit them at. this place should be sold as a home not another god awful development of culdesacs
@Clio
Well, HD – it looks like you “win” – you got the cribchatter brain trust amazed at the barrington house you posted. What I don’t understand is why is a 3000 sq ft house on 1.5 acres at 452k an INSANE deal while a 4500sq ft house (same age) on 15 (FIFTEEN) acres with a 15 stall barn is not? Both areas are EXTREMELY similar in their demographics and both suburbs are the same exact distance from Downtown Chicago. What, then makes the barrington house so much more “INSANE” and unbelievable than the St. Charles house?
—
Groove77 has already pointed out that it is not a apples to apples comparison with respect to property type and condition.
In addition, you habitually mention Oak Brook and Kenilworth (rightly or wrongly) as locations that hold up better or are immune to the RE slump vs. other Chicago suburbs. I would suggest the same distinction applies in attempting to compare Barrington/Barrington Hills to St. Charles.
“In addition, you habitually mention Oak Brook and Kenilworth (rightly or wrongly) as locations that hold up better or are immune to the RE slump vs. other Chicago suburbs. I would suggest the same distinction applies in attempting to compare Barrington/Barrington Hills to St. Charles.”
I really don’t think most people on this site realize the type of housing they have in St. Charles – take a look at the MLS (60175 and 60174) and see how many beautiful homes (many in the millions) there are.
Clio, I really think you should hang onto the Farm, have you tried finding someone to rent it?
If the market turns you are potentially looking at quite a large return.
Are the expenses to maintain it that bad?
@Clio
“In addition, you habitually mention Oak Brook and Kenilworth (rightly or wrongly) as locations that hold up better or are immune to the RE slump vs. other Chicago suburbs. I would suggest the same distinction applies in attempting to compare Barrington/Barrington Hills to St. Charles.”
I really don’t think most people on this site realize the type of housing they have in St. Charles – take a look at the MLS (60175 and 60174) and see how many beautiful homes (many in the millions) there are.
There may be nice homes in St. Charles, but that counter does not dismiss the previous comment of Barrington/Barrington Hills vs. St. Charles
“There may be nice homes in St. Charles, but that counter does not dismiss the previous comment of Barrington/Barrington Hills vs. St. Charles”
clio–arguing this point isn’t doing you any favors. There are many large, nice houses in [generic suburb X–Burr Ridge comes to mind] but that doesn’t mean that they hold the same place in the pecking order as K’worth or OB/H’dale or Barrington. St Chas is v. nice, but 2d tier and that land is *not* in the nicest part of the Chux.
Clio; More sound and fury signifying nothing?
1. You do tout your properties here (esp this farm) repeatedly.
2. I don’t have a need to one up you or or try to impress anyone here. I read what everyone posts here because I love learning more – this blog is vg overall at promoting thinking while discussing properties and trends.
3. I do not care who you are. I used a medical example because you just posted you deal w/ life & death issues daily. No one here is posting personal info about you or ‘outing’ you here other than yourself. Repeatedly. You again threaten me “you really need to watch it” (last time iirc you posted as “jg”, an alter ego who threatened me & defended you, then subsequently iirc you posted as “jg” apparently by accident when responding to someone asking Clio a question. Then you hilariously posted claiming an unknown employee of yours logged onto shared computer as jg). What other names do you post under? I do watch it – not because of you or anyone else but because I learned in kindergarten to try to do the right thing.
4. I haven’t called you (or anyone) a troll – you just called yourself one. None of my posts that address your posts have any animosity or wish you ill. Nothing personal but I often strongly disagree with your posted takes on real estate. I don’t have an opinion about you personally one way or the other other than what you post (hence the tooli-ness reference) but you periodically really really really motivate me to post a response.
Thanks Gesco,
That is my feeling as well (holding on to the farm). My mortgage is really low and taxes aren’t that bad. In 10-15 years, the land will absolutely be worth over 1 million (if subdivided into 4-5lots). My cost, by then will be a lot lower. This is why I really am somewhat ambivalent about selling it. It is a great opportunity for someone – so I’ll leave it open for sale.
clio, if prices in oakbrook haven’t declined, why don’t you just sell your house there, and live on the farm?
I’m sure the crickets would be happy to see your lambo, imagine the joy it would bring them!
@ Clio
Words:
Ambivalence – In Psychology: the coexistence within an individual of positive and negative feelings toward the same person, object, or action, simultaneously drawing him or her in opposite directions.
Actions:
listed 9/8/2008 “$999,000? “$799,000? “$699,000? cancelled 3/17/2009
listed 3/17/2009 “$599,000? cancelled 5/1/2009
listed 5/14/2009 “$699,000? “$599,000? cancelled 7/15/2009
listed 8/25/2009 “$649,000? cancelled 1/6/2010
listed 2/16/2010 “$679,000? “$599,000? still active
SELL BABY SELL!
Is this what you guys (anon, G, Chichow, southbound, HD, groove) do for fun? Because if it is – I can guarantee you that you would get a bigger laugh looking at your own real estate portfolios. To me, this smells of extreme jealousy and immature behavior. Seriously, if you were confident in your own situations, there would be no need to belittle my properties or me, in general. Actually, I don’t really need to spell it out as most readers of this blog probably already realize this.
Homedelete said, “People don’t jog or ride their bikes on 31, there are no pathways following the entire river, the side streets all dead end into subdivisions. For someone who rides their bike around the neighborhoods of the city during the summertime, living out there and being driving only is not somethign I’m interested in.”
The Fox River Trail is pretty extensive (>30 miles from Aurora to Crystal Lake) and I’ve been on more than a few rides up and down the river on it, as well as taking some of those spurs out to Wheaton and elsewhere. And Kane County is taking walkability a bit more seriously, and is encouraging, if not mandating, sidewalks be included in new development.
(okay, I didn’t read the whole report:
http://www.co.kane.il.us/dot/COM/Bicycle/FINAL/bipedplan.pdf )
also, there’s a Trail map of all of Kane and N Kendall county over on the kdot.countyofkane.org site.
And let me add, my boyfriend rides his bike to work and back via the River Trail year around. ~7 miles each way, and he loves it. He bought where he bought in St. Charles exactly to be in proximity to that River Trail for his cycling. I still hope some day we can swing something closer to, or on, the river, but he’s within walking distance of the Fox right now, which is pretty good. We even walk the kayak down to the river, too.
“And Kane County is taking walkability a bit more seriously, and is encouraging, if not mandating, sidewalks be included in new development.”
My parents subdivision growing up (smaller but still sizable midwest city) had sidewalks mandated throughout the subdivision and to the connecting subdivision. Which meant you could walk around the subdivisions.
Getting to a main road to go to any commercial establishment however was a completely different story: curves, hills, bridges over small creeks & speeding cars and really a hazard to any pedestrian. Totally unwalkable (walked it twice when young and dumb and didn’t realize how badly pedestrians lose in car pedestrian collisions).
Not sure if this helps the discourse, but I work with 4 different folks (different households) that live in St. Charles and commute to downtown Chicago. I think they’re insane but they love the space and with one exception all have horses.
I don’t believe they have sidewalks but I’m not positive where you’d walk to anyway outside of a park or trail. Of the three I’ve seen, the houses are fairly spread out and set back from the road.
@Clio
“Because if it is – I can guarantee you that you would get a bigger laugh looking at your own real estate portfolios.”
I’m pretty sure there’s not much to laugh at for HD since I think he’s stated numerous times that he’s still looking for place.
FWIW I hold no personal grudge against you clio. However, I have a different opinion on some of your more outlandish arguments and assertions.
Then again, perhaps I should leave Old Town and return to Gold Coast (Delaware St.) and deliriously swoon in happiness when you lambo by me.
I have friends who live in Trout Valley (bet you never heard of that suburb) which is only about 5 miles northwesth of Barrington. They love it out there. They have a boat on the Fox River, and travel up and down to the chain.
There are some sweet places all along the Fox River valley, many not far from a Metra stop.
craaaaazzzzy………
Where I work (downtown Chicago) I’ve got many coworkers that commute ridiculous distances:
Sycamore, Elgin, Lake in the Hills, Naperville, Mokena, Indiana, Plainfield, Westmont and Darien for example. Some take Metra, but some of them DRIVE. Craziest thing I ever heard of. If my commute were more than an hour one way, I’d move or change jobs. (oh… wait… maybe that’s not so easy in this economy.)
I don’t get it. I just can’t see spending 3-4 hours per day commuting. Even on Metra, there’s still a lot of dead time, to and from the trains and waiting. Life’s too short.
logansquarean – I agree with you. I live in Oak Brook, own property in St. Charles and still think it is too long a commute to go visit the property more than once every 4-6 months!! However, I DO understand why people do it. Think about it…. if you have 400-500k to spend on a house and have a family, there are only a few options:
1. small “not so nice” house in chicago’s average/above average areas (ones that we talk about on CC).
2. crappy houses in good suburbs
3. beautiful house with land in St. Charles w/ good schools (seriously look up what type of house you can get in 60175, 60174 for 500k – it is unbelievable!!)
so many people will make the sacrifice for their family – there just aren’t many choices
What I am saying above is NOT a guess – I have asked MANY MANY people why they commute from these far suburbs and EACH AND EVERY ONE of them has given me that answer.
logansquarean: That’s a result of the bubble. You keep driving out as far as you could afford. It’s why the exurbs expanded as they did.
That’s crazy people commute from: Sycamore, Elgin, Lake in the Hills, Naperville, Mokena, Indiana, Plainfield. Westmont and Darien aren’t that far.
That’s definitely not my work environment.
“I don’t get it. I just can’t see spending 3-4 hours per day commuting. Even on Metra, there’s still a lot of dead time, to and from the trains and waiting. Life’s too short.”
“That’s a result of the bubble. You keep driving out as far as you could afford. It’s why the exurbs expanded as they did. ”
Policy makers are still trying to adhere to bubble mentality via loosening up credit standards. The World Economic Forum is calling for an outrageous 6% growth in global credit, despite only a 4% GDP target.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM1x4RljmnE&feature=player_embedded
“Policy makers are still trying to adhere to bubble mentality via loosening up credit standards. The World Economic Forum is calling for an outrageous 6% growth in global credit, despite only a 4% GDP target.”
I kept telling you guys this was coming – did you really think that credit would remain tight? Give me a break – that is how banks make money. To tell you the truth, anyone could have predicted this!
“that is how banks make money.”
Clio did banks make money recently?
Clio,
My dear internet friend, i am man enough to admit i am jealous of you. I wish i had your eternal happy chipmunk optimism. Your optimism is a wonderful quality to have, and you really have to hit the genetic lottery to get it.
Now i am NOT jealous of your RE portfolio or your schooling or your car or money, i respect you for what it takes to be a doctor but i am no jealous that you are one.
now you know my real estate portfolio would you really get a “bigger laugh” out of it? i would like to know
also my internet friend, i dont know but you might not be from a american culture background/upbringing so you may not have built up tough skin.
thats how it is when around freinds we give each other rib shots, talk smack, disagree, argue and bust/jokes on each other, cause thats the way we show we care plus its funny.
So remember every lambo joke or farm joke i spout, is not to try to belittle you, its because i consider you a internet friend.
PS doooode never loose that optimism, its a gem to have.
“Is this what you guys (anon, G, Chichow, southbound, HD, groove) do for fun? Because if it is – I can guarantee you that you would get a bigger laugh looking at your own real estate portfolios. To me, this smells of extreme jealousy and immature behavior. Seriously, if you were confident in your own situations, there would be no need to belittle my properties or me”
Ha Ha happy chipmunk optimism.
do dew dodododew
ALVIN SIMON THEODORE
“Clio did banks make money recently?”
Bob, I’ll infer that you meant large banks and yes they all posted profits, albeit the revenues were lower.
That’s black & white. Now if you want to argue that these profits are fantasy due to portfolio marking, gov’ propping, etc then just say that rather than leading clio. He doesn’t know (as it’s not his day job or even hobby from at least his posting here shows).
Groove, thanks for the note. Actually, I probably have the thickest skin of ANYONE out there. European and Asian people are actually MUCH thicker skinned and tougher than Americans (seriously – visiting my Mom in Italy as a kid – you learn what teasing, ribbing is all about!!!). That being said, having been born and raised in the US, I kind of consider myself to be an American (yeah, that was sarcasm).
As for me getting laughs at other people’s expense – NEVER!! We are all in this together and EACH one of us makes up a very important part of society. There is nobody that is inherently better or worse than anyone else (although people can make themselves very ugly through their behavior and attitude). The knowledge I have from real estate is just from 15 years of experience buying, renovating and selling – that counts for a lot (even if it is not my day job). My interactions with CEOs, and heads of businesses in my social life also counts for something as I am able to gain knowledge from what they say. My experience on cribchatter is equally important to me because I get exposed to people I would never have come in contact before and understand what their opinions are…. so,… actually, I am rambling westloop style so I’ll stop..
“European and Asian people are actually MUCH thicker skinned and tougher than Americans”
I was going for thick skin on the teasing part, I took me years (and i still do it by mistake now) to get out of the habit when joshing my wife. she is eastern european went to elem and HS there and college in America.
She didnt have that american style teasing growing up and it caused some tough days for the groove when we startd dating.
now she has “tough skin” in regards to other things but teasing isnt one of them.
I dont think i ever took any direct shots at you to put you down or try to belittle you. I may disagree with 80% of what you say and toss out lambo jokes here and there but there is never any malice in my post too you or about you.
Thanks groove – I understand and appreciate that. I actually have no problem with any of the “regulars” here (with one exception -starts and ends w/ a “g”)- I have found most of you to be very entertaining and fair. The rest of the negative nellies hopefully will fall by the wayside…
“Thanks groove – I understand and appreciate that.”
No worries bro, always remember i may disagree with 87% of what you say, but you will still be my internet homie!
Back to 1997 indeed…
Unit #903 just came on the market on 4/4/11. It’s a 2/2 with 1,340 square feet listed with an ask of $230,000 ($172/sf). Monthly assessments of $567 and yearly taxes of $5,254. No parking either but NOT a short-sale for this one.
Unit 903’s ask price cut to $220,000 yesterday.
And this one had it’s price raised to $245k after being listed at $199k.