Bank Owned South Loop Penthouse Loft 55% Off 2006 Purchase Price: 1322 S. Wabash
This 2-bedroom penthouse loft at 1322 S. Wabash, the Filmwork Lofts, in the South Loop is currently listed for about 55% under the 2006 purchase price.
It is bank owned.
The loft is also missing the kitchen and most of the baths.
The listing says it “needs work.”
But the listing says there are partial lake views and apparently a 40-foot terrace with city views (as described in the 2006 listing).
There is no parking with the unit (available for rent in the building).
It has a washer/dryer hook-up and central air.
Is this a deal?
Angela Hotca at Century 21 McMullen has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit PH6: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, about 2000 square feet (according to the 2006 listing)
- Sold in December 2002 for $465,000
- Sold in June 2004 for $520,000
- Sold in September 2006 for $599,000
- Lis pendens filed in November 2008
- Bank owned as of April 2010
- Originally listed in July 2010 for $269,900
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $261,900
- Assessment of $365 a month (although in the 2006 listing they were over $600 a month)
- Taxes of $5938
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer hook-ups in the unit
- Rental parking available in the building
- Bedroom #1: 16×14
- Bedroom #2: 14×12
- Living room: 21×17
- Family room: 23×17
- Kitchen: 13×11
- Terrace
This place is sweet! I would also ask the bank why it took them almost two years from the first lis pendens to take possession of this and put it on the market.
It doesn’t look so trashed so as to be uninhabitable either. So: deal it is!
I like this place also. The shape it’s in allows you to really customize and get a place that you really like without having to accept the tastes of someone else. Although, I don’t think it’s quite habitable without a kitchen and bathroom fixtures.
“This place is sweet! I would also ask the bank why it took them almost two years from the first lis pendens to take possession of this and put it on the market.”
I’ve said before- it’s taking 18 months to 2 years for the banks to take possession citywide. The foreclosures coming on the market now were all lis pendens in 2008.
In fact, a friend of mine who is renting a condo is about to move because the bank is about to take it back. Her landlord stopped paying in November 2008.
This is why the price declines will not stop for years. There are plenty of properties out there where people have stopped paying and the banks won’t put them back on the market until 2012.
It gets even worse than 2012 when the HAMP properties return to foreclosure over the next decade.
“This is why the price declines will not stop for years. There are plenty of properties out there where people have stopped paying and the banks won’t put them back on the market until 2012”
Does anyone think, however, that the prices may NOT continue to decline. I mean, if the economy is better by 2012 and more people are buying, the banks may be able to put these foreclosures back on the market at higher prices (ie – the banks do not have to sell their foreclosed properties at bargain basement prices).
I think this property is probably a good deal for someone looking for a loft in this area – but, as an investor (or someone looking to flip in a few years), I don’t think I would be looking in the S.Loop – there is way too much inventory . In addition, the area is a bit desolate and although it WAS improving/developing in the mid 2000s, I just don’t see much growth (in terms of restaurants/businesses/bars) for many years.
clio on September 9th, 2010 at 7:08 am
Does anyone think, however, that the prices may NOT continue to decline. I mean, if the economy is better by 2012 and more people are buying, the banks may be able to put these foreclosures back on the market at higher prices (ie – the banks do not have to sell their foreclosed properties at bargain basement prices).
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clio, you are a sophisticated man not well-versed in the ways of the proles who comprise 92% of the population, I grew up in a trailer park so I will enlighten you. Even if the economy gets marginally better proles aren’t going to make materially more money. As the economy improves, interest rates will also rise. Proles look at a home or car purchase on the basis of what it will cost them on a monthly basis. That calculus was skewed in the bubble because proles thought they could flip everything, but that calculus will return. Proles will not buy en masse again until the cost of buying is roughly the same as renting, and even that is assuming Uncle Sugar provides unlimited liquidity to FHA because proles can’t save for a few years to get 20% to put down. Plus, as rates go up, proles need housing prices to be lower to offset higher interest expenses. There will be downward pressure on prices for a few more years, at least. Note, though, clio, this may not apply to high end stuff you like, but for the stuff in $200-$500k range, I think prices will slide some more.
“This is why the price declines will not stop for years. There are plenty of properties out there where people have stopped paying and the banks won’t put them back on the market until 2012.”
Here is the funny thing about all this bearish sour grapes “I can’t afford a home” ranting — if price declines continue for years then you all are f’d and it has nothing to do with whether you rent or own.
Let me repeat that — it has nothing to do with whether you rent or own. Odds are you will lose your job or make substantially less and pay substantially more in taxes.
Same people who villified TARP in 2009 now admit that there wouldn’t be an economy right now if the government did not act. 25% unemployment, no credit, standard of living dialed back 30 years.
Good luck making a living in a depression folks.
the assumption that rising interest rates will impact housing negatively is just that…an assumption.
I think prices will continue there downward trend until they get in line with the incomes of the nieghboorhoods and the values of the rents, which means different things for different parts of the city, where everyone is going to get screwed is this. I could afford my bubble priced $500K condo / home but my 3 neighbors couldnt, there homes are now going for $350K, so now my home is worth $350K everyone is going to have to take a haircut, ownership rates are going to have to go back to there natural levels, and the massive amount of over produced inventory is going to have to be worked down
I am still waiting for the wave of walk aways from the Owner Occupier set who overpaid for 2 and 3 flats that they will never be able to sell
“Good luck making a living in a depression folks.”
I call BS on JMM’s nonsense that if the banking system bailout wasn’t passed we’d have 25% unemployment. Maybe in the neighborhood of the Upper East Side of Manhattan but that’s about it.
“if price declines continue for years then you all are f’d and it has nothing to do with whether you rent or own. ”
Again JMM makes broad assumptions about everyone on CCs situation. Many would do quite a bit better if the government stopped lending artificial support to the housing and banking sector. Many would not. He thinks he’s Mr. Omniscient and knows where everyone’s plinko chip will land.
Also I’m not expecting rampant inflation as PermaBear is. Instead many years of low interest rates and high unemployment. The Fed would love to ignite an inflation fire these days…but the kindle is fairly well wet at this point.
What needs to happen is the FDIC needs to start seizing insolvent banks that have basically marked their books to fantasy and have been intentionally sitting on foreclosures for multiple years. But we know they don’t have the money either so no more banks seized the past two weeks.
a little off topic, but I’ll ask anyway. Some friends who are renting are being kicked out for the second time in as many places because the unit is being foreclosed on. They are not looking to buy and want to continue to rent. Is there anyway for people to do background checks of some sort on owners so they don’t find themselves in the same situation again? They are great tenants who want a two year lease, but do not want to keep moving because of foreclosures.
Trudi,
although I don’t know of any direct way of calculating the absolute risk of foreclosure, there are many things a tenant can check:
– mortgage owed on a property – probably one of the most important factors (your friends should know the rough current value of the property – obviously the more equity the owner has in the property, the less likely for foreclosure).
– number of years owned
– number of rental properties owned (you can just ask the owner)
– number of years in the rental business
All of these things give you clues as to the risk of foreclosure. Also, have your friends include a “foreclosure clause” in the lease agreement that penalizes (monetary/financially speaking) the owner if the property falls into foreclosure
“Does anyone think, however, that the prices may NOT continue to decline. I mean, if the economy is better by 2012 and more people are buying, the banks may be able to put these foreclosures back on the market at higher prices (ie – the banks do not have to sell their foreclosed properties at bargain basement prices).”
Plenty of reasons why I think banks are going to be selling things cheap in the next year or two.
1) You have to assume that house buyers in general do not become aware of the scale of bank-owned supply on the books today or on its way. The numbers I’ve seen indicate avg 450-500 days from 90 days delinquent to repossession in IL. If the general home-buying public gets wise to true magnitude of the supply overhang, you’ll have a classic deflationary spiral. Why buy now if you know prices are going lower?
2) There’s also a big change in psychology and how people frame gains and losses in residential housing. We’ve all seen the research that it takes a $200 gain to make up for the pain of a $100 loss. For so many years the “loss” was not buying early enough and watching the price go up. Look at the gains I could have made if I’d only bought sooner! Loss aversion DROVE purchases. We have exactly the opposite now. The “loss” is buying too early and watching the price of the property go down. Now loss aversion is keeping people on the sidelines and will continue to keep people there until they see a solid rebound from the bottom. They’re willing to forgo 2x in gains to avoid a 1x loss. That buyer psychology just drives prices down even further. False bottoms driven by tax credits etc… just make this worse.
3) in the 250-300 range are there any mortgages that aren’t FHA/Fannie/Freddie? Do we really think that by 2012 you’ll still be able to get 3.5% down mortgages? FHA is broke as is. A little less leverage takes a lot of buyers out of the equation
4) No doubt employment rates matter much more than mortgage rates. And as employment recovers (2012 is as good a guess as any) household formation will increase – driving home purchase. But will this be enough to reverse all the other headwinds? And will we see it in all sectors? For example, will young couples and professional singles really buy condos when they’ve been/seen so many people burned? Or will they save their money and make the first purchase a house in the burbs? The idea of buying something and selling it in 2-3 years is dead.
Bob on September 9th, 2010 at 8:15 am
Also I’m not expecting rampant inflation as PermaBear is. Instead many years of low interest rates and high unemployment. The Fed would love to ignite an inflation fire these days…but the kindle is fairly well wet at this point.
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My call isn’t inflation, either, my call is economic malaise and a prolonged Japan-style d-spiral. I just think if the economy improves, you’ll see rates nudge up.
Nice analysis, Marc – but I think there are other important factors missing:
– population growth
– number of people on the sidelines for the past 2-3 years (who definitely HAVE money) but are waiting. Once these people get back into the market, home prices will rise.
– psychology (I know you mention “loss aversion” but what happens when prices start to go up – people start to panic and will buy buy buy). Also, people, in general are optimistic (not on this site) and as soon as they see a positive in the housing market, they will get back into the market. In a few years, people will forget the pain of 2008-2011 (just as they have in all of the other real estate declines).
Obviously things are vastly different in different neighborhoods and different price points – which is why I am always arguing that buying in good neighborhoods is the way to go right now.
“My call isn’t inflation, either, my call is economic malaise and a prolonged Japan-style d-spiral.”
Japan the U.S. The labor markets are different, immigration, birth – death rates are completely different, and our economy is far different in terms of diversification and growth.
agree w/JMM – re: the comparison of Japan and the US
Anyone feel no matter what sabrina highlight/showcases by the middle of the posts it will be the same tired discussion all over again?
Bob, we would have had riots in the streets if TARP hadn’t happened. Not because of unemployment, but because every element of the modern financial system was days away from freezing up. If you can’t get cash from an ATM and you can’t use your credit card, how do you buy food? If your bank can’t clear your check, how does you business pay its invoices and get goods?
I don’t think people recognize how close we were to going off a very dark cliff in fall 2008.
“If you can’t get cash from an ATM ”
Deposit accounts were insured up to 100k. Not every bank would have failed and those while those horror stories about international trade freezing up due to LOC’s not being available were true, the temporary economic disruptions would’ve been a small price to pay for right-sizing the economy very expeditiously and with a minimum of government expense.
Financial services as a % of the economy grew from ~7% less than 30 years ago to over 22% in 2006. All due to the ponzi economy of asset bubbles. It needs to be right-sized back to a proper economy that isn’t driven by rampant asset speculation. Instead trillions were wasted to preserve the status quo.
“Again JMM makes broad assumptions about everyone on CCs situation. Many would do quite a bit better if the government stopped lending artificial support to the housing and banking sector.”
No, you wouldn’t.
This place provided a new lesson from me: the only thing better than exposed ducts are YELLOW exposed ducts. Ugh.
Also, I note that less than two years ago a 1/1 here sold for within $20k of the ask for this 2/2 “PH”. (Unit 407).
Great reminder for me how happy I am to be OUT of S Loop real estate.
Clio
You make good points.
However,
– Population growth has to translate into household formation. Given how little they’ve saved in retirement and how most of that savings is tied up in housing, an awful lot of boomers are moving in with their kids.
– Population growth also has to translate into income growth for home prices to rise. Real incomes growth net of health care costs was negative from 1998-2008. It’s obviously worse today than two years ago.
– Yes, people are generally optimistic. However, when the results of over-optimism are staring you in the face in the form of friends who can’t move because they’re upside down, a buddy who was foreclosed upon etc… you tend to be a little more cautious. But in general, Americans are way optimistic, unless the current generation ends up thinking like the great depression generation – which I think is a stretch.
– the pent up demand. yes it’s there. as mentioned before, I think a lot of it will end up getting spent on a house in the burbs as folks in their 20s and early 30s who want to be flexible and mobile and not stuck in a 2/2, rent rather than buy. on the flip side there is an awful lot of pent up supply as well (I don’t mean bank owned, I mean people who are keeping up with their mortgage but would prefer to be elsewhere)
100% with you on focus on a small number of the highest quality neighborhoods. Look at some of the gorgeous homes in wicker park. They were the “million dollar” homes of their era when they were built, and it took the neighborhoods 100 years to get the homes back to that level. In between it was UGLY.
“Anyone feel no matter what sabrina highlight/showcases by the middle of the posts it will be the same tired discussion all over again”
groovey, I think all of the discussion relates back to this property – the financial aspect of short sales/foreclosures and the general outlook on real estate is what the site is all about – if I am not mistaken, Sabrina showcases these houses to bring about this type of discussion.
Groove you are spot on…. I was thinking the same thing.
“Anyone feel no matter what sabrina highlight/showcases by the middle of the posts it will be the same tired discussion all over again?”
How about the strange decorating (or whats left of it) in this place
“How about the strange decorating (or whats left of it) in this place” I was just thinking the same.
How much would this run to bring it back to decent. Not super fancy. Just in-line with the rest of the building?
And does “This is an owner occupied building.” mean the association in a condo building really forbids renting? obviously the financing here is for an owner-occupier.
“It doesn’t look so trashed so as to be uninhabitable either.”
um it looks pretty trashed to me… wtf are you talking about
Trudi; easiest way is to check the local recorder of deeds online. There’s also the circuit court records online that can be checked.
Cook County stuff is incredibly easy to find, if it’s been filed.
Ohh I missed the pic showing the missing kitch. Ouch and I rescind my comment.
“groovey, I think all of the discussion relates back to this property – the financial aspect of short sales/foreclosures and the general outlook on real estate is what the site is all about – if I am not mistaken, Sabrina showcases these houses to bring about this type of discussion.”
true but its just not this property/post its the trend of every single post lately.
seriuosly i could go to a post last week thursday, and it will be the same discussion as this one. or it will be about the clio show one or the other.
*who am i to say anything anyways 🙂
“Groove you are spot on…. I was thinking the same thing. ”
Valasko,
whatever happened to the days the post would turn into school debate? 😀
Thanks Clio and Logansqaurean…info is much appreciated. I will pass it along!
Lately, reading this blog has been hazardous to my mental well being… It stresses me out with too much discussion about the deteriorating economy, the LTV on my real estate investments in the context of my income, Obama’s tax policy, etc… whew! I think I need to go back to reading about college football 😉
When I look at this place, I think why on earth would ANYONE paint their home that color (and before you all jump on me… I know we are supposed to look past decor, but in this case there’s nothing else to look at but paint colors). Why is the kitchen missing? Did the disgruntled old owner rip it all out and take it with? Is that legal?
Or the stroller debate…. now that was entertainment!
“whatever happened to the days the post would turn into school debate? “
“When I look at this place, I think why on earth would ANYONE paint their home that color (and before you all jump on me… I know we are supposed to look past decor, but in this case there’s nothing else to look at but paint colors)”
What completely baffles me is these choices in a condo. If someone is going to buy a house and live there for 20 years, then go to town. After 20yrs you’re going to have to replace kitchen/baths anyway. But in a condo that was sold every 2 years how can you do this? You can only look so far past some of these choices. After all, for the regular homeowner who doesn’t have a solid plumber and “tile guy” on speed dial, redoing a couple baths gets pricey and stressful.
They also took one of the bathroom sinks
strange
BTW, this condo association did pass a very restrictive leasing amendment to its’ dec’s and bylaws…
“whatever happened to the days the post would turn into school debate?”
I don’t think we ever discussed the racial breakdown of the selective CPS schools coming out of the new plan. There were some figures given (I think one or more of the blogs). I haven’t had a chance to look carefully but I think white enrollment generally went up and asians went down. Black and hispanic enrollment were more variable.
“Did the disgruntled old owner rip it all out and take it with? Is that legal?”
Legal, yes (assuming it was done before a f/c judgment, if after, questionable). Default under the mortgage loan, absolutely. But once you’ve defaulted, why not *really* default?
Also, on the “18-24 months LP to sale” issue, the timelinw in Illinois is long even in circumstances where a lender moves everything as fast as possible. From first payment default, you’re 90 days to LP. With filing, notice, redemption periods, it’s ~12 months after that, assuming everything happens the earliest day possible, and with *no* fight from the borrower. So, to be able to market a property free and clear of all borrower-related interests (which is the *only* right way to do it), it’s really a minimum of about 15 months from the first of 3 consecutive non-payments.
And almost nothing gets handled exactly on the minimum dates, b/c the risk of being wrong by one day (and thereby pissing off the judge) exceeds the benefit of picking up a week on the timeline.
Wouldn’t the cabinets and other attached items be fixtures and therefore part of the property secured by the mortgage? If they are fixtures, even assuming that the owner can take them he has to restore the property to the way it was before removal, doesn’t he?
“Wouldn’t the cabinets and other attached items be fixtures and therefore part of the property secured by the mortgage? If they are fixtures, even assuming that the owner can take them he has to restore the property to the way it was before removal, doesn’t he?”
Contractually, yes. Legally, no. You can destroy your property, even if someone else has a security interest in it, without facing criminal charges. “legally”–to me–means “not in violation of law”, that is “not a crime”, not “not in violation of an agreement”, which is clearly not criminal, unless you do so fraudulently.
Desperado, curious what you would suggest lender to do if owner failed to “restore the property” as you suggest?
“Contractually, yes. Legally, no. You can destroy your property, even if someone else has a security interest in it, without facing criminal charges. “legally”–to me–means “not in violation of law”, that is “not a crime”, not “not in violation of an agreement”, which is clearly not criminal, unless you do so fraudulently.”
So, prior to foreclosure, while you are in default, you could sell off your entire house (in bits or in whole if that were feasible) and not violate any laws? Does it matter whether it’s a recourse state?
“Does it matter whether it’s a recourse state?”
Doesn’t violate any laws, unless you are (somehow) fraudulent in not repaying your debt. Their recourse is to get a money judgment against you. You then can file BK and have the judgment discharged. There’s no law in the USA requiring you to re-pay a debt to a bank–debtor’s prisons are a relic of the early 19th c.
The bank has the recourse set forth in the contract and available under state law, that’s it. Not “illegal”, in the way I read “illegal”.
“Lately, reading this blog has been hazardous to my mental well being… It stresses me out with too much discussion about the deteriorating economy,…”
rngirl – don’t feel too bad – if your name is an indication of what you do, you are set!! There is a shortage of nurses and an even greater shortage of good nurses. Become a nurse practitioner, work at the new Target/Walmart clinics and make 100k+ w/ tremendous job security!! Hope you feel better now.
its river north girl clio you dolt
Judges frown upon selling the house off piece by piece. The large banks don’t pay attention to what’s happening but believe me the smaller non-tbtf banks keep a close eye on that stuff. Tbey actually care about protecting their collateral.
“its river north girl clio you dolt”
sorry, we talk about what we know….
LOL. Bob’s right. it is “River North” girl. I would make a terrible nurse!
“Judges frown upon selling the house off piece by piece. The large banks don’t pay attention to what’s happening but believe me the smaller non-tbtf banks keep a close eye on that stuff. Tbey actually care about protecting their collateral.”
Sure, but if you manage to sell the whole place w/o the bank noticing–what’s the criminal penalty? It’s like the dude in Ohio who bulldozed his house/business rather than hand it over to the bank. Maybe he could be prosecuted for demolition w/o a permit, but that’s mostly going to be a fine only, anyway. Of course, if he didn’t pay the *fine* he might go to jail.
“LOL. Bob’s right. it is “River North” girl. I would make a terrible nurse!”
I would imagine most people who would prefer high-rise living would. I am a believer that one’s neighborhood says a lot about one’s personality.
“Doesn’t violate any laws, unless you are (somehow) fraudulent in not repaying your debt.”
And there’s nothing fraudulent about selling off the house, depriving the bank of partial recovery of its loan, and using the assets for your personal benefit?
“And there’s nothing fraudulent about selling off the house, depriving the bank of partial recovery of its loan, and using the assets for your personal benefit?”
You own it. The bank has a lien on it. You breach the terms of the contract, but don’t provide false information in furtherance of teh breach? Don’t see how.
“I would imagine most people who would prefer high-rise living would.”
Sorry, Bob. You are wrong this time. I actually don’t live in a high rise. And I actually don’t live in River North either. Nice try, though.
“Or the stroller debate…. now that was entertainment!”
Valasko,
since that debate a while back i now will have 5 strollers for sale that will be hitting craigslist soon.
you learn that once they can run they dont want to sit, and when they are tired of running they dont want to sit either they want daddy to carry them. (my guns are ripped now!)
‘you learn that once they can run they dont want to sit, and when they are tired of running they dont want to sit either they want daddy to carry them. (my guns are ripped now!)”
Until they do again Groove. Until they do again. Mark my words–keep at least one of them.
“I don’t think we ever discussed the racial breakdown of the selective CPS schools coming out of the new plan. There were some figures given (I think one or more of the blogs).”
oh snap! you are opening a pandora box keep the lid closed!!!!!
we gave up on the whole school thing, our focus is amazing preschool in hope of testing gifted :O
while trying to work with local school to improve for back up, and a back up to the back up its burbs or private.
Its all for future Groove to figure out (sound familiar?) i put alot of time and brain power in the school thing and now i realize f’ it just enjoy today.
“Until they do again Groove. Until they do again. Mark my words–keep at least one of them.”
we have 8 strollers now! five will be sold and we will be left with one umbrella for each car and our “GO EVERYWHERE heavy duty” stroller.
she says keep them all for the next one, i told her she could get new ones when that time comes, she smiled.
“You own it. The bank has a lien on it. You breach the terms of the contract, but don’t provide false information in furtherance of teh breach? Don’t see how.”
(I’ll give up soon.) You’re not implicitly providing false information in selling off assets on which there is a lien?
“You’re not implicitly providing false information in selling off assets on which there is a lien?”
As an individual in a consumer finance transaction? Not a chance. As a business in a commercial transaction? Possible.
“As a business in a commercial transaction? Possible.”
That was going to be my next question. Is that b/c the law is different or because the likelihood of prosecution is different?
“Is that b/c the law is different or because the likelihood of prosecution is different?”
Both. Of course, the penalties are different, too (can’t put a company in jail). And it’s hard to convict a company of a crime.
@Trudi,
In addition to the excellent advice to consult http://www.ccrd.info for the recorded status of both the specific property and the owners other grantor/grantee positions I would mention the following…..
Federal law offers protection to those with a valid lease that is ‘market price’. I leased a house last year knowing full well that a lis pendens had been filed. Nothing (except perhaps conscience ha ha) prevent a landlord from signing a contract even whilst a property is in foreclosure. In my case it meant I could negotiate favorable terms for the lease and i was aware of the potential for the property to revert to bank ownership. As it happens the property became bank owned 3 weeks after my lease had expired and I had moved out. Much to my chagrin the bank, not knowing the status of the lease, called me and indicated that they would be prepared to compensate me to terminate the remainder of my lease so that they could market the property vacant (their initial figure was equal to 6 months rent).
This market offers weird and perverse incentives right now. Those who screwed up often get the opportunity to collect some money on their way out the door. The cash for keys that is often paid to not trash the place is another example.
The only way to make sure you are the right side of these incentives is to be fully appraised of all the legal proceedings surrounding the property and to understand the protection that the law does and does not offer. Those things are rarely common sense and in my experience poorly understood by some real estate attorneys (with apologies to some of the excellent ones who do).
For what its worth, my landlord offered me a 12 month lease renewal and I declined it knowing that it was not being offered in good faith – I had attended the auction at which the property was sold to the bank 3 weeks previously. The landlord however technically was the owner until the confirmation hearing 6 weeks later.
My silly ethical principles cost me 6 months rent, maybe I am not cut out for Chicago real estate!
A few friends of mine live in a place they suspect is going into foreclosure. My advice to them is to not be scared and leave but rather fight it as long as possible and and live rent free for awhile.
They have a good opportunity to stiff the LL from the time they know a definitive foreclosure date on the property, as well as stiffing (or collecting monies) from the bank as well.
They are eager to take advantage of the quagmire and get their own personal bailout. Which I think is only equitable.
“My silly ethical principles cost me 6 months rent, maybe I am not cut out for Chicago real estate!”
Your silly ethical principles basically gave a substantial sum to an entity too lazy to even check on a property it has ownership of to see if there were tenants living there.
“They are eager to take advantage of the quagmire and get their own personal bailout. Which I think is only equitable.”
The taxpayer will pay for this. Where is the “equity” in your friends’ being able to live someplace “rent-free”?
Bob, there is such a thing as an ethical code that is inviolate despite one’s circumstances. Um, that’s what an ethical code is.
Groove,
I will take one of the five strollers. When are they going up on CL? We need a decent O’Hare/Midway stroller. Our gate checked good one got sent to Japan while we flew to Costa Rica. It finally arrived safe but pretty dirty. On another trip they bent the axle a bit. Wife decided that we need a cheap one for planes.
“We need a decent O’Hare/Midway stroller”
buy the Quinny Zapp!!! the best travel stroller next to the mcclaren triumph/quest.
the zapp comes with a travel bag!!! ours wont be on CL as it the stroller in my car.
i will have a BOB ironman on soon that was used 7 times.
“The taxpayer will pay for this. Where is the “equity” in your friends’ being able to live someplace “rent-free”? ”
The “equity” is that many other less deserving parties of society received government bailouts. In fact many of the same institutions and people that got us into this mess.
There is no more meritocracy in America nor upward social mobility, it was likely largely all just an illusion–that’s what the financial crisis of 2008 taught me when our policy makers rushed to throw money at the same financial system and key players that basically looted the economy. Their peking order was maintained by the government changing the rules of the game in the 11th hour and handing out blank checks.
You can believe your pious or morally superior all you want as you are entitled. I believe in less heroic contrivances and that “getting yours” should take priority in a society such as ours.
“You can believe your pious or morally superior all you want as you are entitled. I believe in less heroic contrivances and that “getting yours” should take priority in a society such as ours.”
Bob – I completely understand your point and frustration – I share similar feelings. But, at the same time, you should realize that mental well-being is more important. The problems of society are getting you down and you should try whatever you can to “curb” that effect – it is much more detrimental to your life than the effects of the monetary misappropriations by the government.
clio,
Rest assured my mental well being is fine. I am on track to meet my goals and am also quite happy with politics these days and energized about the tea party movement.
As Sgt. Kilgore stated one day this war was gonna end, similarly one day these bailouts are gonna end. I just hope abruptly enough to purge institutions from our society that cannot survive on their own two feet in this new economy.
The pain needs to be spread around and I’m looking forward to it with popcorn at hand.
“Both. Of course, the penalties are different, too (can’t put a company in jail). And it’s hard to convict a company of a crime.”
At the rate our courts and legislators are providing personage to corporations, it’s only a matter of time. Not that it would ever happen.
“we have 8 strollers now! five will be sold and we will be left with one umbrella for each car and our “GO EVERYWHERE heavy duty” stroller.”
Sorry Groove, this is really pretty pathetic
“we have 8 strollers now! five will be sold and we will be left with one umbrella for each car and our “GO EVERYWHERE heavy duty” stroller.
she says keep them all for the next one, i told her she could get new ones when that time comes, she smiled.”
Crazy! Also, if you have room to store, why sell them, why not reuse them? But I don’t suppose you acquired 8 strollers by thinking that way.
Seriously, Maclaren Volo and Bob Rev. Those are the only two to get.
“Seriously, Maclaren Volo and Bob Rev. Those are the only two to get.”
Are either of those ok for an infant? We’ve got one on the way in January.
“Are either of those ok for an infant?”
Definitely not the Volo. Don’t know about the Bob’s.
ps: For an infant, get one of the universal infant car seat carriers. Then the kids rides in the car bucket, until s/he’s old enough to ride in a regular stroller (like the volo or a Bob).
“ps: For an infant, get one of the universal infant car seat carriers. Then the kids rides in the car bucket, until s/he’s old enough to ride in a regular stroller (like the volo or a Bob).”
Thanks! Much appreciated.
“For an infant, get one of the universal infant car seat carriers. Then the kids rides in the car bucket, until s/he’s old enough to ride in a regular stroller (like the volo or a Bob).”
Exactly. We did not have a more compact infant stroller. My wife did a lot of babywearing (Ergo and some kinda ring sling thing).
Djiddy,
i will second anon (ufo), we regret not going the universals car seat stroller route. if we were to to it again i would pick up the graco universal baby bucket stroller its like $50.
and from what i remember BOB’s are 6 months plus and can only jog with them 12 months+ per doctor approval or 18+
“Sorry Groove, this is really pretty pathetic”
barry dont worry your day will come, and you supplant your knowledge of horsepower in cars to what stroller is compatible to what car seat 🙂
“Crazy! Also, if you have room to store, why sell them, why not reuse them? But I don’t suppose you acquired 8 strollers by thinking that way…Seriously, Maclaren Volo and Bob Rev. Those are the only two to get.”
Why store them if they dont get used, i have the storage space but i know the wont be used and by the time the second comes there will be cooler ones out that can do more and be lighter 🙂
really one should just skip the BOB and the Volo and just get the city mini and call it a day!!
the volo (mcclaren in general) is sweet at 12 pm but when you are walking west 4pm+ you wish you would have a great canopy.
All this stroller talk reminds me of why I hate Roscoe Village.
“We did not have a more compact infant stroller. My wife did a lot of babywearing (Ergo and some kinda ring sling thing).”
could get comforatble with the sling just personal pref,
we went with the bassinet buggy thing, We have a Peg Perego Skate that once he turned 6 months stopped being used cuase its like 40 lbs i think.
but its like a bed on wheels!!!!
“All this stroller talk reminds me of why I hate Roscoe Village.”
And kids
“i will second anon (ufo), we regret not going the universals car seat stroller route. if we were to to it again i would pick up the graco universal baby bucket stroller its like $50.
and from what i remember BOB’s are 6 months plus and can only jog with them 12 months+ per doctor approval or 18+”
I misread anon’s comment. There’s an attachment for putting buckets on teh Bob. That’s what I thought he was talking about.
“really one should just skip the BOB and the Volo and just get the city mini and call it a day!!”
Wife did not like the mini for jogging, which she actually does.
“Wife did not like the mini for jogging, which she actually does”
teach me how!!! i cant jog with my son, just too much going on it never turns out well. thats why i am CL’ing the bob ironman.
most strollers have the baby bucket attachment, but to me was a joke because all the bulk and weight was a hassel and the young ones travel with so much stuff the univeral bucket stroller would save so much trunk space 🙂
“teach me how!!! i cant jog with my son, just too much going on it never turns out well. thats why i am CL’ing the bob ironman.”
What goes wrong? I do think it’s easier if you’re shorter, although I thought you had short legs.
“most strollers have the baby bucket attachment, but to me was a joke because all the bulk and weight was a hassel and the young ones travel with so much stuff the univeral bucket stroller would save so much trunk space”
Much less of an issue if you’re in a walkable neighborhood. Still, that’s a fair point and the Bob is plenty big. As I said, my wife did a lot of babywearing.
“What goes wrong? I do think it’s easier if you’re shorter, although I thought you had short legs.”
hobbit legs are not the issue 🙁 it keeping my son happy in the stroller after 10 minutes sitting. once he learned to walk he hasnt sat down since 🙂 so trying to run while he wants to get out and explore is a losing combo for me.
“Much less of an issue if you’re in a walkable neighborhood. Still, that’s a fair point and the Bob is plenty big. As I said, my wife did a lot of babywearing.”
its actually more of a pain in a walkable hood. try navigating a bob in LP its horrible, or navi a BOB with a babybucket at a street fest. Wifey every time she come back from northcenter wants to stab all the women with BoB (or BJ) double wides.
side note* i think the people the rock the Phil and teds for a double should have DCFS called on them. its just so cruel.
“keeping my son happy in the stroller after 10 minutes sitting. once he learned to walk he hasnt sat down since”
Just let him watch a video on his ipod touch. (I don’t think my wife actually does that but I would.)
“its actually more of a pain in a walkable hood. try navigating a bob in LP its horrible, or navi a BOB with a babybucket at a street fest. Wifey every time she come back from northcenter wants to stab all the women with BoB (or BJ) double wides.”
Much easier in Logan. Still, as I said, a very fair point.
“Just let him watch a video on his ipod touch.”
Yuppie scum. You make life harder for the rest of us.
Once again “Crib Chatter” has been taken over by post’s about “cribs” on wheels.
I will put my vote in for the Bugaboo. It has been great except for the minor damage due to rough handling by the airlines. Groove a Quinny Zapp is on the way.
Thanks for the tip as you are a source of true credibility. Our daughter sleeps in her main crib for around three quarters of the night. If/when she wakes up crying we pick her up and move her to the portable crib you suggested months ago on C.C. When She then falls right back to sleep. We have no idea why but it works like a charm.
“Yuppie scum. You make life harder for the rest of us.”
Well, it’s not like it’s an ipad. We really use it for pretty limited circumstances, mostly travel. I am aware of how it looks.
Cant’ resist adding my two cents:
1) For air travel or drive-to destinations at which the kid will often either be walking around or carried: the Maclaren Volo (or whatever its smallest model is called). The thing opens/closes with one hand and is so slender (and is easily slung over the shoulder).
2) For running: the standard Bob Revolution. There’s better models for hardcore running (e.g., the Ironman), but really, how long can a kid just sit there? Plus, once kids are in the 3 to 4ish range, the Bob Rev can become the main stroller (for the zoo, or if in a walking neighborhood), excluding air travel. (Groove: My kid has about a 10 minute tolerance as well, which is why strategic every-10-minute-offerings of a pretzel stick or cracker, then a page out of a sticker book, then a phone, etc., seem to do the trick, for up to about 45 minute runs tops…which must of course end at a playground or some such.)
3) For the primary stroller (birth through 2 – 3ish): the Orbit. I know, I know, yuppie scum of the worst kind. But, if one’s in a true walking neighborhood (and actually walk it throughout the day, every day), I’d say the cost is well worth it. And I’d say that the Orbit blows away its peer strollers. The infant seat goes into the car with ease; being able to rotate the infant seat while strolling (for shade, view, etc.) is a great feature; being able to rotate the seat (infant and toddler) towards a table (pre-high chair days) is very handy; it actually breaks down very easily and compactly; there’s plenty of storage if one gets the collapsing panneer bags; it’s very durable; and highly maneuverable. (Granted, the mechanism on the toddler seat doesn’t work quite as well as the infant, but it’s still excellent.) And the craddle is a great luxury item as well, if only for a few months.
“Well, it’s not like it’s an ipad.”
You know it probably will be, when he’s big enough.
“We really use it for pretty limited circumstances, mostly travel. I am aware of how it looks.”
Couldn’t resist. It’s what mine wants for next gift-receiving holiday.
“And kids”
No so much the kids. More the doting parents.
You think the millenials are bad? Wait until the brood discussed by the parents of this thread comes of age.
America IS in trouble!
http://oldirvingparkhousewalk.com/
Old Irving Park Housewalk this weekend.
annony,
thank you for not resisting your 2 cents!!! doode that sticker book thing is a genius move that will guarantee 20 minutes of time. its so simple why did i never think of it.
i tried the pretzel/goldfish/string cheese thang but it ends up on the ground, i tried yo gabba my phone which was thrown luckily into the grass.
i learned it more fun to run after he goes to bed 🙂
i will not pass judgment on you for the orbit as wife want the stokke for the cool factor.
now i will pass judgement on DZ and Anon(ufo) for the ipod touch.
“Couldn’t resist. It’s what mine wants for next gift-receiving holiday.”
I just found out you need two. One for your kid and one for their friend when they go on an outing. (All of this is mostly for Bob’s and apparently Groove’s amusement.)
“(All of this is mostly for Bob’s and apparently Groove’s amusement.)”
I was pretty amused too– thanks!
I will also perpetuate this offensiveness by voting on the side of city mini. The style, the handling– it is so choice.
“now i will pass judgement on DZ and Anon(ufo) for the ipod touch.”
Mine who wants one is (a) school age and (b) not getting it from us anytime soon (as in, several years). So don’t lump me in.
“Mine who wants one is (a) school age and (b) not getting it from us anytime soon (as in, several years). So don’t lump me in.”
when me an little guy out out WITHOUT the wife i have yo gabba gabba and thom the train loaded on my phone and you will see him zoned out in the basket at target/sears 🙂
wifey say no tv, but what she dont know wont hurt her 🙂
“wifey say no tv, but what she dont know wont hurt her”
You understand how the intertubes work, don’t you?
“Mine who wants one is (a) school age and (b) not getting it from us anytime soon (as in, several years). So don’t lump me in.”
“when me an little guy out out WITHOUT the wife i have yo gabba gabba and thom the train loaded on my phone and you will see him zoned out in the basket at target/sears”
We’re really doing nothing different from groove, or portable dvd players which I see a lot, just on a more convenient and protected (Otterbox case) device. At least that’s what I say to myself. Plus I can watch slingbox or netflix on it myself (as long as I get permission from little DZ).
So I did some research on this place as I was actually interested in it. It turns out that the previous owner combined ph4(his current condo) with ph5/6. He put a double door in the demising wall between ph 4 and ph 5/6. my question is, What legal responsibility does he have to replace the wall to it’s orginal condition? Also, How can someone determine what was space is banked owned? There is a funky wall that juts out from the demising partition about 6 feet and i was wondering if the original is a part of ph4 or ph5/6?
Wuold anyone live in a place where the previous owner who was foreclosed on lives next door?
Love to hear everyone’s thoughts.