Buy a Bank Owned House and Re-Sell Just Months Later: 1859 W. Ohio in West Town
This 3-bedroom brick single family home at 1859 W. Ohio in West Town recently came on the market and went under contract within days.
Last March, it had been bank owned.
Back then, the listing described the house as having 9 foot ceilings and marble in two of the baths.
But it also said:
“THIS HOME IS A REHABBERS DREAM. THIS HOME IS WITHOUT A KITCHEN AND WITHOUT 2 OF THE BATHROOMS.”
Listed for $245,000, the house sold just a month later, in April 2010, for $365,000.
I found an old listing with interior pictures for the house which you can see here.
The house is now listed for $354,000 more than the April 2010 purchase price.
The listing says it has “amazing curb appeal.”
The house has Brazilian cherry floors.
The kitchen has Brookhaven cabinets, a Thermadoor cooktop and Napoli hood with granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances.
The house, new construction in 2004, is on a 25×100 lot and has a two car garage.
This is the first property I’ve seen go under contract that fast in a long time.
Was this home simply priced right?
Neil Hackler at Chicago Real Estate Resources has the listing. See the pictures here.
1859 W. Ohio: 3 bedrooms, 3.5 baths, 1920 square feet, 2 car garage
- Sold in December 2004 for $769,000
- Sold in August 2005 for $870,000
- Lis pendens foreclosure filed in January 2008
- Bank owned in January 2010
- Listed in March 2010 for $245,000
- Sold in April 2010 for $365,000
- Currently listed at $719,000
- Under contract within days
- Taxes of $8761
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 19×29
- Bedroom #2: 13×18
- Bedroom #3: 14×10
It is nice to know that someone is making money in real estate. Buy low, sell high, great concept.
I don’t know about the hood, but the interior shots make the place look great.
A rehabbed house for less than the 2004 new construction price…and little in the way of price competition? No surprise it sold. Inventory might be high but it is all stale and overpriced.
That is a nice looking house. Neighborhood is good enough for this price.
Congratulations to the investor who bid and won this house, he no doubt paid in cash. There are a couple of other examples like this in the same general area. It is astonishing what cash flippers are capable of in this market, and the net result is long term home owners looking to sell can’t compete.
Let’s assume that the current owner is about to make a lot of money on this (a very good assumption). The real mystery here is how a bank allowed this to sell so cheaply in April. Clearly it was underpriced. It went under contract in 10 days for way more than the ask price and even that was apparently too cheap. You don’t see that very often. I don’t care if it’s cash. Many of the bank owned properties I’ve seen start out over priced.
How did this place go for only $365M after the rehab?!?!?
Good deal for the seller. How do you find these…I have been looking and none seem published. Was this an inside job. Someone at the bank lists low and friend buys it and rehabs at a huge profit?
This type of rehab/flip is going to give rise to a whole new generation of flippers and bring some previous flippers out of the woodwork. There is a lot of cash out there, and a lot of “hungry” people willing, able and motivated to get into the game. The number of desirable properties that are short sales/foreclosures in great areas are nowhere near the number of people willing and able to buy and flip them. This is yet another reason that good areas will continue to be good investments (yeah, I know someone is going to mention the 1 or 2 cheap properties in Kenilworth – but those went under contract within days). Seriously, people, don’t hold out for the good deals – they are happening RIGHT now. If you find something you like now, for God’s sake, buy it – things are NOT going to get cheaper in the good areas.
The amount of the 2005 mortgage which went into foreclosure is not recorded in ccrd.info, but, it appears that in March 2008 the owner took out a home equity loan (or possibly a line of credit, it’s unclear), in the amount of $295,349.00; and then by January 2009 both mortgages were in foreclosure…
HD: does that mean that the owner owed 295 plus whatever s/he took out for the loan?
If so, that is criminal.
There were a few others like this not long after the bust in West Town. The ones who managed to snap them up, put in a little work, and resell did well I imagine.
I had my eye on one I could not believe was not selling. It was new and mostly complete. It was just a bit more than I could swing at the time. From the resell, whomever bought it made close to a 200k profit. Easy money but it takes it to make it.
“How did this place go for only $365M after the rehab?!?!?”
That was before rehab. But the question still stands. It went really cheaply.
“Was this an inside job. Someone at the bank lists low and friend buys it and rehabs at a huge profit?”
um yes?
Nice house though, all brick, lots of light, decent finishes. I don’t like the neighborhood but all my friends are moving to that area so maybe it wouldn’t be that bad to live there
ummm was there even 200k of work done?
and even at 200k you are looking at a 154k profit!
well if everyone leaves the table happy thats all that maters.
Interesting…the previous owner took out the huge home equity loan…defaulted….and the interwebs show that the previous owner no longer has an academic position at a major academic institution in Chicago…and in fact is no longer in Chicago and may not even be in the United States any more and is most likely in Europe…
I’m not saying the previous owner did this, but, what an awesome way to pay off your graduate MBA loans and then abscond to places where the logistics of taking collection actions against you would be very difficult.
I love America.
“The real mystery here is how a bank allowed this to sell so cheaply in April.”
This is only a mystery to the extent that banks don’t want to put effort into fixing up a home for resale. The old listing says it needed a kitchen and 2 baths. To a bank that’s a hassle. You cannot underestimate the power of cash, especially in this market. If you have $365k in cash to invest in something I might entertain an argument.
“I don’t like the neighborhood but all my friends are moving to that area so maybe it wouldn’t be that bad to live there”
sonies, you would really base your life around where your friends at the current time are living? God, I have gone through sets and sets of friends in the past 20 years and never see or talk to any of my old friends anymore. Life changes – you should base your decision on where to live on your own tastes/personalities – you will be much happier.
“ummm was there even 200k of work done?”
A house this size that is this new probably only took 100k for an experienced contractor (and maybe not even that much)
I’m not insuring my title research here because I’m not a title insurance company nor do I work for one….
but my review of the title records on ccrd.info indicated two mortgages; with a second mortgage for roughly $295,000 in 2008; and the $295,000 was not the primary loan that went into foreclosure…
and the previous owner is no longer in the US; an a european university newsletter announces his arrival as a new professor in September 2008…
Maybe it’s coincidental, maybe it’s not. I just present the facts, you can interpret them as you like.
“#endora on December 15th, 2010 at 9:14 am
HD: does that mean that the owner owed 295 plus whatever s/he took out for the loan?
If so, that is criminal.”
“This is only a mystery to the extent that banks don’t want to put effort into fixing up a home for resale”
Banks aren’t in the remodeling business. This isn’t a home, just a toxic asset to them.
Yes, HD, but it is obviously the fault of the stupid bankers as well, who were willing to give this person a loan.
I looked at a townhome in Central Station two years ago that had nearly an identical situation. The loans totaled over 1 million dollars, including a 200,000 home equity. The place sold within days as a short sale for about 650,000.
I think this economy is going to be a long time ‘recovering.’
“sonies, you would really base your life around where your friends at the current time are living? ”
Yes? I didn’t consider that when moving before and now all my friends have moved to areas that are inconvient to get to or really far away. (they all rent and if I was still renting I would consider renting where my friends live)
But I really like my current location where I purchased (so not much I can do right now) and this house is like 2x the price I can afford at the moment so its pointless to debate anyways.
Out of curiosity: Professor of what?
“I think this economy is going to be a long time ‘recovering.”
uhhhh – the stock market is at a 2 year high today and climbing. People made billions in the past few weeks in the stock market. Everyone’s portfolio has fattened. The economy IS recovering nicely. Whether and when this trickles down to real estate is another story – but, believe me, it will start again and before you know it, we will be talking about how expensive housing is, etc.
“Out of curiosity: Professor of what”
Economics
“God, I have gone through sets and sets of friends in the past 20 years and never see or talk to any of my old friends anymore”
AT WHAT POINT DO YOU NOT SEE THE PATTERN?
🙂
Clio: I recognize what you are saying about the stock market, but don’t you think that this is unwarranted optimism? The markets are notoriously driven by emotion, not reason.
I am not an economist. But common sense would suggest that if this listing is at all suggestive of wider market trends, than the economy has a lot of bad, debt from which to recover. And while I am not such a pessimist to say that this will never happen, it is going to take time. Arguably, we didn’t recover from the 29 depression till WWII. I’d bet on a similar, 10-15 year ‘recovery’ now.
Associate Professor of Organisational Behaviour at a european university – new faculty announced in September 2008
“endora on December 15th, 2010 at 9:28 am
Out of curiosity: Professor of what?”
“A house this size that is this new probably only took 100k for an experienced contractor (and maybe not even that much)”
thats the point i am making, it needed a new kitchen ant 2 baths and maybe touch ups everywhere. the bulk of material cost would be for the kitchen. and with a pro the guy as i said before can use over runs from other jobs the cut the cost even more.
Wow, a functional layout (http://www.smartfloorplan.com/il/v303588/), a competitive price and amazing marketing 😉
“Neighborhood is good enough for this price.” I personally like that neighborhood, but I was surprised no one commented on the address being west of ashland, and about 400 N of the United Center. Can this be considered Ukranian Village? If so, there are quite a few interesting options for a SFH in the 650k-725k range inside of Ukranian village, so I think agent is owed a lot of credit for selling this property so fast.
endora: just when you think things in the RE market cannot get any worse, they do. That’s why it’s a real estate depression.
I saw some stats I posted a while back here (or maybe somewhere else) from housingwire that said that the major banks have twice as many homes late but not yet in the foreclosure process as they do current in foreclosure. IIRC B of A had something like 20 billion of properties in foreclosure yet 40+ billion of properties 90+ days late but not yet in foreclosure.
It’s a nightmare.
“How do you find these…I have been looking and none seem published.”
I don’t think it’s as hard as it once was to get these deals. If they hit the MLS and are out on the web that tells me the pros who have connections in the real estate community don’t have the cash available. In other words their cash is tied up already in enough investments for them to cover all deals like this one. I know of 2 other properties in the same area with roughly the same bank sale price/profit ratio. Again, if you have this kind of cash and cannot find these deals, lets talk, I think I can help you;-)
“I’d bet on a similar, 10-15 year ‘recovery’ now.”
WW2 provided the catalyst for the recovery in consumer spending in the post-WW2 era. In fact it really didn’t take off until the 50s and there were more deep recessions in the late 1940s.
There is no such catalyst this time, at least not yet. War and other factors are always a wildcard however, war the least preferable one.
After the stock market crash in 1929 there were no SUSTAINED gains until 1949 on. I think you will see a similar 20 year wait (starting from 2001) for the market to show sustained increases. Today we are seeing high levels in the market as well as prices in oil and precious metals rising, but indications in real estate and high numbers in bad debt are showing a long term recovery is not probable.
you guys are crazy. seriously ask yourself: how badly has the recession personally hit you. Most people buy into the hype and FEEL as though they are poorer, when, in reality, they are not much financially different than before the recession. If everyone took a more “individualistic” approach instead of buying into the herd mentality, they would see that things aren’t as bad as they feel. Seriously, do it – and see for yourself.
actually the moritorium on forclosures has effected my family more than the “recession”
but yeah, overall things aren’t as bad as the doom and gloomers would like you to believe but they aren’t great either like the late 90’s
“Again, if you have this kind of cash and cannot find these deals, lets talk, I think I can help you;-)”
Hey Chibuilder – is there a way to get in touch with you?
I’d be interested in knowing about these places.
okay, Clio, I’ll bite:
I’m not in your income bracket, but I’m not poor either, so maybe I am more representative of general trends?
I know one person whose income property (not their primary residence) is in foreclosure. But I know a few people who are close–i.e. they received mortgages that are way too high for their income level and they have a lot of credit card debt (100,000+). And of course, their properties are considerably underwater. So, as I see it, they are just one crisis away from becoming another statistic.
endora- but those types of people will exist whether we’re in a “great recession” or not
“Banks aren’t in the remodeling business. This isn’t a home, just a toxic asset to them.”
One would think so but every time I see something interesting the bank wants to rehab it and over price it. I’ve got my eye on one right now and this is the bank’s plan.
I agree with Clio, even take this professor who originally bough this house, he’s doing fine. Even walked away with a 289 cash loan he did a strategic foreclosure on.
“endora- but those types of people will exist whether we’re in a “great recession” or not”
Sonies that was the wisest words ever said on crib chatter. EVER!
Gary, you and I both know that the banks can’t get their heads out of their assess to develop and institute any meaningful plan for the rehab and resale of houses. This just isn’t going to happen on a large scale
“you guys are crazy. seriously ask yourself: how badly has the recession personally hit you. Most people buy into the hype and FEEL as though they are poorer, when, in reality, they are not much financially different than before the recession. If everyone took a more “individualistic” approach instead of buying into the herd mentality, they would see that things aren’t as bad as they feel. Seriously, do it – and see for yourself.”
Clio, My salary + bonus is almost 40% less than 3 years ago….. luckly we haven’t lived beyond our means, but I do have friends in a similar situation and they are not doing well at all.
valasko, my salary is down 25% from last year but it hasn’t changed my lifestyle significantly. My point was that although the recession affected quite a few people, there are a HUGE MAJORITY who have not been significantly affected. We always talk about unemployment near 10% (up from 5-6%) – but what about the 90% of people that ARE employed. Come on, stop focusing on the extremes of the market – the averages are most important.
comments about pictures – check
location — check
mortgage amount — no, but discussion about previous mortgage and lien will suffice
sleep inducing macro-econ – check and check
if someone can just talk about the “white couch or dive bar in the hood” (thanks Peg Bundy) we can move on to the next one!
🙂
“We always talk about unemployment near 10% (up from 5-6%) – but what about the 90% of people that ARE employed. ”
90% of people aren’t employed. The unemployment rate only measures those filing claims, which is only those who have an incentive to do so (those who still qualify for unemployment insurance). Once that is exhausted they stop certifying and they fall off the stats.
A much better metric is the labor force participation rate which is actually more like 64.5% of the population. This is also a multi-decade low, not seen since the mid 1980s.
Additionally the unemployment rate does not count those who are under-employed (working part time jobs, working in much lower paying jobs that aren’t suited to their education or skillsets, etc).
“valasko, my salary is down 25% from last year but it hasn’t changed my lifestyle significantly”
Clio, your a HNWI….. a 25% decrease to someone who lives paycheck to paycheck and has maxed out his credit cards is HUGE…….. this would be the average american.
The U-3 figure is informative but the U-6 is most important number. People who are underemployed or have stopped looking for work in IL is 17% so that’s nearly one in six.
“We always talk about unemployment near 10% (up from 5-6%) – but what about the 90% of people that ARE employed.”
Hahaha clio’s disconnection from reality I find humorous and amusing:
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2010/12/participation-rate-of-25-to-54-age-men.html
I get it and agree…. to a certain extent – but if you want to feel better about the economy, try going to one of the many many exclusive restaurants/bars in chicago on the weekends – they are so packed with people THROWING hundreds and thousands of dollars at the bartenders/waiters – you would NEVER EVER think that we are in any type of financial crisis.
hey guys check this out…
http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/explorer?hp?hp
census data plotted via colored dots
go to chicago, and zoom out a few…
gives a whole new meaning to “green zone” LOL
“but if you want to feel better about the economy, try going to one of the many many exclusive restaurants/bars in chicago on the weekends -”
Chicago is a big enough city that these places will continue to exist. Albeit in smaller numbers–I’m seeing faux/poseur exclusive clubs like VS offering deals for 75% off on bottle service on Poggled.
I’m confused: the new kitchen looks pretty much like the kitchen in the ‘old’ listing.
Nice catch Sonies
“I’m confused: the new kitchen looks pretty much like the kitchen in the ‘old’ listing.”
Thought so too. Definitely a very similar look. But upon scrutinizing the photos a bit, the cabinets seem different, the fridge probably different, hard to say about the cooktop and oven. Countertop/backsplash, which I do not like, looks same, as does hood.
Well, considering that everyone is talking about how crappy things are, it probably means we are well on our way to recovery. It seems the general population is always late to the party. Just like when the market was crashing everyone was a RE investor. Now that the market went into the toilet, everyone is an armchair economist/fortune teller who knew the market was in the toilet.
We will probably have a few more bumps along the way, but I’m thinking recovery is starting.
“We will probably have a few more bumps along the way, but I’m thinking recovery is starting.”
If by recovery you mean 1-2.5% GDP growth and persistently high unemployment for the next decade, then yes, it is a recovery. And it technically is per the NBER.
oh don’t worry bob, we’ll grow via inflation as usual
Bob, come on – you have to listen to the people here who have been around the block and are a little older than you. Things ARE better and are going to continue to get better. There are trillions of dollars on the sidelines right now – as soon as consumer confidence rises (and it is based on emotional issues) you will see how fast this underestimated/unknown huge force will help the economy. Don’t underestimate the power of the american consumer!!!
“Things ARE better and are going to continue to get better.”
You are speculating and honestly full of it, IMO.
Take your own advice and talk to people a little older than you, clio. You’ve never known famine only feast–our economic environment today is reminiscent of the 1930s.
“Take your own advice and talk to people a little older than you, clio. ”
Believe me, I do – and while most people do think that this is a bad one, nobody is as negative about the economy as most of the people on this site.
One thing missing from these responses is the contrary viewpoint. The fact that the list was $245k in March and sale was $365k implies there were a number of bids which in turn would imply the investors who bid had working numbers for profit potential. Most guesses for cost of 1 kitchen and 2 baths are $100k on the low end up to $200k.
But, what if there was damage due to exposure to elements, ie frozen pipes, leaking roof? That could mean mold, drywall, floors. Not saying this is the case, but I’m not 100% convinced the investor made off with $154-$254k.
“Hey Chibuilder – is there a way to get in touch with you?
I’d be interested in knowing about these places.”
ChiBuilder, I also have some interest in finding out some more. If you don’t want to disclose info publicly you can email me at dz_account at hotmail dot com. I can forward to Jon too.
Clio what you say is true for the highest five percent income bracket because for them, there was no recession. In fact, for this group net wealth actually increased over the last five years. Maybe when it comes to real estate this group is especially important in driving the market so what you say may be true. However, when you venture outside your own circle and ask that question you are likely to get answers that may surprise you.
Itcaffey – you are probably right. I hope the economy picks up at a faster rate for everyone – it just isn’t fun playing alone anymore!!!
Clio: “Come on, stop focusing on the extremes of the market – the averages are most important.”
Coffee is all over my keyboard. Seriously. This from the person who claims all RE is local and that we can’t look at averages like the case shiller data.
Foreclosure, sales and price averages? Useless!!! (…because it works against clio’s theory that the RE market is sunshine and lollipops…) Unemployment numbers? Don’t focus on the 10% that have it bad, look at the averages! (…because it works against clio’s theory that the economy isn’t that bad and most people have considerable disposable income and high paying jobs…)
The motives here are just so apparent…
“Bob on December 15th, 2010 at 11:05 am
“our economic environment today is reminiscent of the 1930s.”
lol
TftinChi –
you are not getting the point: when you are talking about the economy in general, you have to look at the averages – not the extremes. When you are talking about real estate, you have to look at the individual properties, NOT the averages. My point is that the analysis of the economy and real estate, while related, are completely different and should be looked at in different ways – people just don’t get it.
http://www.qqq-options-trading.com/images/bl/stock_market_crash_1930_10d.gif
Look at the graph and look at the excellent recovery in 1930; only to take a turn for the worse shortly thereafter.
This time things are a little different. The Fed has figured out how to extend the rally longer than 6 or 8 months like the 1930 rally.
The current rally is eerily similar to 1930.
How about buy a house for $850 and double the price 2 months later? http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1439-N-Elk-Grove-Ave-60622/home/18953607
Pretty cool house, but wow.
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2006/11/1927-1933-chart-of-pompous-prognosticators/
And to all the bottom callers – see the link above.
“”uhhhh – the stock market is at a 2 year high today and climbing. People made billions in the past few weeks in the stock market. Everyone’s portfolio has fattened. The economy IS recovering nicely. Whether and when this trickles down to real estate is another story – but, believe me, it will start again and before you know it, we will be talking about how expensive housing is, etc.”
“Well, considering that everyone is talking about how crappy things are, it probably means we are well on our way to recovery. It seems the general population is always late to the party.”
our economic environment today is reminiscent of the 1930s.
really? 25% unemployment and people waiting for hours in food lines… soup kitchens packed to the brim? LOL whatever
In terms of the financial condition of households and the extent that the economy was levered to an asset bubble, yes.
get real
Oh, I get the point you are trying to make. I just think it is rubbish.
Persistent bad data from the housing market (higher foreclosure rates, extremely low sales figures, falling prices) have an effect on the entire market. True, some pockets of the market might escape the worst of the problems, but as we’ve seen over the last couple years, they are not immune. And persistent bad data on the employment front certainly effect behavior. People fear losing their jobs, save more, spend less and generally have less confidence. Even more, these phenomena feed on one another.
Are there outliers? Absolutely. There are people who have seen their fortunes rise in this downturn (a lawyer friend dealing with bankruptcies comes to mind, as do big bank traders) and undoubtedly those same people are out there snapping up RE steals, or even paying over 2006-2007 prices on their dream properties. But they aren’t the average person. Poll after poll, survey after survey, they all show the same thing: a tepid economy, a weak level of employment, people taking pay cuts and working less hours, and consumers without a lot of confidence in future economic prospects.
My point is that averages do matter and they do inform people’s opinions on the economy and financial decision making. And cherry picking one average (employment numbers), pretending it isn’t that bad and saying that most people aren’t in dire straights completely misses the bigger picture.
hd- a retrospective review of wrong predictions is amusing – i can’t wait to use your quotes in a couple of years……
was that elk grove ave house the one with big flooding? i seem to recall a cool looking place in that area being under water literally.
“People fear losing their jobs, save more, spend less and generally have less confidence. Even more, these phenomena feed on one another.”
TftinChi – take a look at the stock market – i don’t think the majority of the country thinks that the sky is falling – in fact, it is just the opposite. The only reason I keep posting is for the people who read all of these comments and start to panic and worry – they really shouldn’t – things are much more stable than most people on this site seem to think.
“was that elk grove ave house the one with big flooding? i seem to recall a cool looking place in that area being under water literally.”
You are thinking of 1809 N. Hoyne
http://cribchatter.com/?p=6274
“take a look at the stock market – i don’t think the majority of the country thinks that the sky is falling – in fact, it is just the opposite.”
No dude. The stock market isn’t rallying because of economic/earnings growth. Its rallying because our Federal Reserve is debasing the currency via printing money and equities are hedge for this.
If the market cap of XYZ corp is X% of the economy when the money supply is Y, it is typically going to grow and maintain that same % of the economy when Y grows, all else being equal.
impressive recall Jon, thanks.
“people waiting for hours in food lines… soup kitchens packed to the brim? LOL whatever”
Sonies, the only reason you don’t see them is due to the massive increase in food stamp recipients. 40.8 million in May (13% of all Americans), a 19% increase in just one year, that would have been on the food lines without them.
Bob – thanks for the economics lesson – the bottom line is that it doesn’t really matter why the stock market is going up – it leads to consumer confidence which leads to increased spending which leads to economic recovery. It really is quite simple and doesn’t need all the ridiculous mathematical analysis that most economists try to use to sound smart. So much in life is about psychology it is UNBELIEVABLE!!!! If you just understand and embrace this, you can have your way with anything/anyone. It really is that simple.
G – better be careful what you say – bob is going to start getting mad at all of his tax dollars being spent on food stamps for the poor
G –
That number is up to 42.9 million people on food assistance in September. Must be a sign of the recovery?
http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/34SNAPmonthly.htm
Clio, your skills are obviously not in real estate forecasting but in chasing bubbles. You are a ponzi schemer to the core. Honestly, you shouldn’t waste time on RE but would do well to pursue the next bubble. Yes, you seem to wrap a lot of your self worth in your real estate “knowledge,” but your skill was in identifying the ponzi scheme, not any RE trends or analysis.
Thanks, Dr. Funk, for the link. I couldn’t find it so had to use some old data. Just think how many food lines we would see if the 13%+ of Americans didn’t get them.
“Honestly, you shouldn’t waste time on RE but would do well to pursue the next bubble”
What’s the next bubble? I can’t wait to devise my evil plan to cheat people out of their money!!! God – that is so hilarious. G, you, my friend, are obviously a numbers guy – the type that couldn’t stand me in college/graduate school – because, while they sat and studied and worked and sweated away through all of the nonsense, I could easily see the forest through the trees and was able to succeed way past their expectations without much effort. I don’t wish people like you or them bad luck – you guys worked/work really hard – but at some point, you have to ask yourself why are you in the position you are in and not somewhere “higher/better”. Psychology is the key, my friend.
clio: sure, let’s play the “how’s the stock market doing” game. For the last five years, the performance of…
Dow Jones IA: http://tinyurl.com/27usl6k
Nasdaq: http://tinyurl.com/354cwkf
S&P 500: http://tinyurl.com/2asrrtx
So, assuming for a moment that the “stock market” is a good proxy for the health of the economy and consumer confidence (a really bad idea, IMO), at best, you could say that the last 5 years have been flat in terms of economic growth. And while the markets have mostly recovered from their lows, given that we are near flat, we are actually still down about 5 years worth of growth/inflation. And on top of that, there is nothing guaranteeing that this stock growth will continue.
As someone else pointed out, inferring this much information from stock price averages is just silly anyway. Crashes and rallies are driven as much by emotion as by hard indicators and have little bearing on market levels in the future. Nonetheless, you might want to wait until the market has at least eclipsed its peak before making such bold proclamations.
Your analysis of me is no better than yours about the re market. Wrong on all accounts.
“impressive recall Jon, thanks.”
NP. I remember because I was visiting a friend one night a few doors down and saw the basement filled up like a pool with water cascading from the front!
“bob is going to start getting mad at all of his tax dollars being spent on food stamps for the poor”
Actually I have a few friends who abuse this system and invite me over for excellent food all the time. So hey can’t bite the hand that feeds! 😛
I’m a real estate bear, based on the hidden supply of pre-foreclosure properties (shadow inventory) that have not yet been placed on the MLS. In addition, I believe that the ongoing mortgage fraud (and big bank criminality) will forever change the way people finance housing.
However, I see many signs of a recovering economy in other sectors. My clients are large manufacturing firms (heavy equipment, autos, etc.). They are for the most part increasing production and rehiring from previous layoffs. Compared to the low of 2008 (where these plants were down to 1 shift), most are returning to 3 shifts.
I don’t know if this new hiring will make up for the job losses over the past few years, but the direction has surely changed for the better.
“but at some point, you have to ask yourself why are you in the position you are in and not somewhere “higher/better”
LOL
“Higher/better” than the financial/job security to spend as much time as I want with a loving wife and family who enjoy our abundant time together? As opposed to what? A loser with too much money, too long of work hours, no loving family in their daily life, and a need to overcompensate with style for obvious deficiencies of substance?
I suspect there are a lot of abusers –
G – you are really mean – Now I am going to have to take my disco nap before spending thousands of dollars tonight “overcompensating” for the lack of substance in my life. My bet is that I will have a much better, wilder, exciting, memorable night than you. Oh well…… at least you have your numbers…..
“at least you have your numbers”
Nope, what I have is the joy of a happy family. It’s hard for someone to understand if they don’t have the same.
clio: “…My bet is that I will have a much better, wilder, exciting, memorable night than you.”
Where are these wild and exciting places? Whenever I go to a bar, I just see other shmucks drinking and watching the TV too. Especially on a 10 degree Wednesday night.
“Where are these wild and exciting places?”
Everywhere the Lambo goes! Duh!
some days it seems like clio takes more acid than others.maybe it’s just me.
Clio had one really good point. The media can seriously influence the masses. When the media got behind the ramping up economy they helped push the masses into believing that it was nothing but calm waters ahead and streets paved with gold. Now that same media wants to scare the world into doom and gloom economic issues.
Pretty soon they will look for a positive way to interpet the same data to make things seem slightly better. They want their poster boy in the White House to look like he has started the change toward better days ahead.
Seriously just watch the evening news in Q1 2011. Remember that you heard it here first! Call me out if I’m wrong! For the record jp3chicago said that the mostly liberal media will try to create ways to report more positive economic news in early 2011.
They will try to guide the masses into thinking things are getting better. And surprise there will be some stimulus because of the messages. It will not be enough to solve our economic issues but it will get more people spending again.
Clio’s bad point is that he will see one day that the baby seat in the Lambo will make that thing ride even more exciting and that the kid in the seat will bring an even bigger smile to his own face!
“Gary, you and I both know that the banks can’t get their heads out of their assess to develop and institute any meaningful plan for the rehab and resale of houses. This just isn’t going to happen on a large scale”
I do think it’s the local bankers that tend to want to do the rehabs. I’ve never seen a national player try it.
it went under contract today at the $719k sale price. I predict it will sell for much less but I imagine the flipper is into it for less than $475k, $365k for the purchase plus adding kitchen, 2 baths & refinish floors. Not bad if they sell for $600k. Who else is making $125k + in less than 6 months? Kudos to them!
@ChiBuilder
i have bought 2 properties in the past 8 monthes and am still interested in a few more….think u cud help me?
I am the lister on this property. If you want to know more about foreclosure listings and how the processes work, then feel free to contact me. I am starting up free classes in January to help answer questions just like the ones everyone has asked above.
Thank you
“Seriously just watch the evening news in Q1 2011. Remember that you heard it here first! Call me out if I’m wrong! For the record jp3chicago said that the mostly liberal media will try to create ways to report more positive economic news in early 2011. ”
BHO masterfully calculated his tax cut package. It keeps the economic lifeline alive for another year and is a backdoor stimulus, but extending the tax cuts for two years sets up a backdrop in 2012 of BHO vs. those evil Republicans who will not extend the lifelines any further.
Things will get better in 2011, if only due to government stimulus/handouts. But in 2012 things are slated to get worse and everyone’s taxes will go up 2% and extended unemployment benefits will expire. This is just in time for BHO’s re-election bid and the full faith and support of the US media will be solidly behind him as he frames the campaign as a class warfare ballot.
Bob – Amen brother. You are money today! That is exactly the plan at the DNC. They are running around objecting at every turn and setting up the “I told you so” defense if things are not perfect in two years. And we all know that things are not going to be perfect in two years.
I’m doing my part to help the economy. I had been waiting to see how the tax issue would settle. Now that I know the short term answer I am actually hiring additional employees. I made an offer on Wednesday but this is actually to replace someone who is leaving at the end of the year. That is just a wash. I have a plan in place to add two additional employees in 2011. One will be hired asap and the second one should be in place by June. Net result two new jobs with pay and benefits totaling around 55K each.
The next time someone tells you that tax policy does not create jobs tell them they are wrong and have them call me. I was on the sidelines for four months waiting for this decision. If I would have been on the hook unfairly for an additional 3% in taxes (and who knows what else) I was not going to hire another employee until the last possible moment, That might not have been for at least another 12 months.
Bob knows exactly what he is talking about.
Clio is clueless.
Bob has made no money in real estate and is a renter.
Clio has made a few million dollars in real estate, owns 11 properties that are all “above water” and are making money.
jswede – I hope more of your opinions/judgements are a little more accurate/better in the future – for your sake!
Sold for 705k today.