Chess Lofts Slashes Prices on Remaining Units: 320 E. 21st Street in the South Loop
It’s been nearly 2 years since we chattered about the Chess Lofts, the 2007 loft conversion of the former recording studio and warehouse for Chess Records in the 1950s and 1960s, at 320 E. 21st Street in the South Loop.
See our June 2008 chatter here.
According to the Tribune, these are the currently building stats (out of 119 units):
- 71 units sold
- 48 units still available
- 12 of those available for immediate occupancy
Prices had previously ranged from $239,900 to $449,900.
One bedrooms:
- Now starting at $194,900 (parking is $35,000– only available with select units)
Two bedrooms:
- Now starting at $249,900 (parking is $35,000– only available with select units)
Five town homes left at Union Row [Chicago Tribune, Seka Palikuca, Mar 28, 2010]
There are also some resales currently in the building.
This 1-bedroom has been listed since October 2009 and has been reduced by $33,000.
It has 12 foot ceilings and the kitchen has stainless steel appliances, oak cabinets and granite counter tops.
The property has central air and a washer/dryer in the unit.
Marnie Beilin at Prudential Rubloff has the listing. See the pictures here.
- Sold in December 2007 for $223,040
- Originally listed in October 2009 for $208,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $175,000
- Assessments of $165 a month
- Taxes are “new”
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Central Air
- No parking
- Bedroom: 11×9
- Living room: 15×12
- Kitchen: 11×8
Well, since the article brings up Union Row…In case you folks missed it, I’ve been engaged in a heated debate with Joe Zekas who has been defending this development for the last 4 days: http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-real-estate-getting-real/2010/03/can-new-marketing-strategy-sell-a-bad-location.html#comments
If anyone wants to weigh in one way or the other I could use a break.
BTW, in the comments Joe admits (to his credit, BTW) that he is paid by developers to defend their developments in social media forums.
Gary, I’ll just say we had a place in the South Loop for years, and I would never even consider living at Chess Lofts. Your first 3 reasons (location) would be the main factor, although your wife’s secondary rationale is also compelling.
Joe brings up some decent points (and probably did increase my opinion of the development, relatively speaking), and this area has certainly improved night and day dramatically over the past couple decades. . .
But if you want a south loop “loft” there are SO many options I can’t imagine why you would go all the way over to this place on the near south side (yeah sorry but I’m still dealing with stretching “south loop” south of Roosevelt. . . south of 18th is just not south loop. I’m lobbying for “McCormick Place North”. . . yeah that’ll sell em.).
Gary,
I saw your ‘debate’ with Joey; Loved it. Not only was it entertaining but it keeps Joey away from here. You’re a CC humanitarian for jumping on that grenade.
I drive by Union Row (on the highway) a few times a month. Like you I’m completely baffled that anyone built in that location. Even more baffled that people actually bought there.
(fyi, the link on your name in your posts here links to your old blog, which just tells you to click another link to your new blog on Chicago Now; not sure if that was you’re intention but wanted to mention it if you werent aware.)
Square D,
There are actually 2 different developments discussed in the article. My debate with Joe has been about Union Row, which is what the article starts out with. Sabrina is addressing Chess Lofts, also discussed in the same article.
Tom,
Thanks for pointing that out. My cookies automatically fill in the old address on my comments. Let me try changing it here.
Gary, Thanks for your link with your debate with Joe.
So that’s why he hangs out here. He’s PAID to do so by developers! Wow. Scary. At least he reveals what many of us have known all along (although I didn’t think it entailed actually going out on other social media sites and “defending” the developers there.)
That is why I do not take a dime from the real estate industry.
Crib Chatter is the only non-biased real estate site in Chicago.
My hats off to you Gary- for engaging Joe and sticking by your points.
Sabrina,
My identity and my interests and the scope of services we offer to the real es5tate industry have long been completely transparent to anyone who takes the time to Google me and my business.
And yours? With all due respect, no one takes anyone who’s so studiously anonymous at their word.
If you followed me around the Internet enough you’d quickly realize that there are many industry players I wouldn’t work for under any circumstances.
No one has ever bought off my objectivity, and I’d firmly contend that I’m far more objective and factual than your group of regulars. Unfounded attitude and ignorance are pernicious forms of bias.
The fact that you’re applauding Gary for defending the indefensible tells us something about how “non-biased” you are.
Wow so Joe gets paid by developers to troll, be biased in his opinions on anonymous real estate blogs, and start flame wars and ban those who disagree with him. As if my opinion of you as an internet person wasn’t already low, its negative now. Congrats, you’re a dirty disgusting human being.
Sabrina,
As Joe states, he’s not paid by the developers. His sister company is paid by developers. So no conflict, right.
I used to go to YoChcago and found it decently informative (as much as an advertisement could be) but there is no discussion there. Most of the posts have zero comments and the one with numerous comments are usually Joe berating anyone who says something negative about a developer or some dubious RE practices.
I think you get more response in a single ‘Vacation Schedule’ post Joe gets in 10 of his postings. Thats because you actually let people discuss a topic.
Joe’s postings on this site could be used as a case study to teach grade-schoolers about the Falacies of Logic: circular reasoning; guilt by association; cause-and-effect; 2 wrongs make a right; etc.
Stumbled upon this cartoon —
http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/011908/waste-money-on-rent.gif
I’ve posted links to several studies that show people who live close to congested expressways, rail yards, and coal fired powerplants are at an increased risk for all sorts of diseases. This development is right next to the second most congested expressway in the US. I cannot believe the City even allowed this to be developed for residential use. This development is Chicago’s Love Canal.
What are you talking about. This is the best, most centrally located and affordable housing units in the city. 10 years from now this development will be the next Sandburg Village. Trains? who doesn’t love a good locomotive and caboose a couple of times a day. This is the perfect development for a retired train engineer or locomotive hobbyist.
Yeah, right Sabrina. No bias whatsoever.
“Crib Chatter is the only non-biased real estate site in Chicago.”
Because I changed my Web address my replies are being held up for approval by Sabrina.
It’s pretty normal for a company to hire people to monitor social media and respond to challenges to their products or services. However, who you hire should represent you in a way that you would want to be represented. I’m reminded of a comment here a while back from the developer of Superior 110 where his response to criticism was a very objective statement of the facts about his development. You couldn’t help but respect the guy.
Compare that to hiring someone who leaves a trail of personal attacks across the Internet. Doesn’t really represent your company in a positive light does it?
She meant “disinterested” rather than unbiased. Everyone has biases; Sabrina would not deny it. But she’s not getting paid to post. Or if she is, I for the life of me can’t figure out who would have an interest in giving her any money.
And Joe’s BS about transparency is silly, as usual. Calculated Risk is one of the most respected financial blogs on the net, and it is anonymous. Indeed, it has been cited as authority by mainstream journalists, academics, Nobel Prize winners… and Joe Zekas.
For Joe and HJP to diss Sabrina on her own site…
That’s like a young danny going to boy scouts, making a mess on the arts & crafts table, eating all of the Den Mother’s cookies, planting a stinker in the bathroom… and upon leaving, telling the Den Mother that she has poor taste in decor and she appears to be gaining some weight.
“That’s like a young danny going to boy scouts”
But you aged out of it, right?
“This development is Chicago’s Love Canal.”
That’s an insult to the victims of Love Canal. No one can *not* see the proximity of the freeway and railroad.
I like how JoeZ criticizes Gary by saying… YOU’RE A LIAR! ITS [the development] NOT ON THE “lightly used” RAILROAD TRACKS! ITS UNDER THE DAN RYAN! LULZ
danny,
Boy scouts have scoutmasters, not den mothers. But this is CC, where real-world distinctions don’t much matter.
I have repeatedly disclosed client relationships on this site and elsewhere.
For Sabrina to wake up all of a sudden and find what I do “wow” and “scary” and suggesting I’m revealing it for the first time implies that I haven’t been upfront about what I do. Sabrina was being either disingenuous or massively inattentive and uncurious.
I think the selling point for this property should be as follows:
“Excellent investment – city is guaranteed to seize your property for McCormick expansion within 10 years!”
“I have repeatedly disclosed client relationships on this site”
Joe: I don’t believe that you had ever revealed *here* that part of your role is playing defense on “social media sites”. You have been very consistent in letting us know that you work for Developer X, and I guess it would be reasonable to assume that posting here is part of that brief, rather than just for fun, but I don’t think you ever stated it explicitly for those of us who don’t think about your business relationships.
“But she’s not getting paid to post. Or if she is, I for the life of me can’t figure out who would have an interest in giving her any money.”
Google! I don’t begrudge her for it in the least. It’s also obvious.
“Google! I don’t begrudge her for it in the least. It’s also obvious”
yeah i figured that google is droping some ad $$$ for her and good for her cause she does use her own resources and time to give us a place to play.
BTW, I found out about the nexus1 from the google ad on here, looked into it and bought one.
Yeah I’m sure the $8 a day she gets from google really goes far
Joe, the fact that you disclose who you client is actually makes your insidious shill even more despicable. Even David Learah eventually admitted he was a shill and he was a nicer guy too. Too bad you haven’t gotten the memo yet.
“Mr. Lereah, who says he left NAR voluntarily, says he was pressured by executives to issue optimistic forecasts — then was left to shoulder the blame when things went sour. “I was there for seven years doing everything they wanted me to,” he said, looking out his window to his tree-filled yard in this Washington suburb. Mr. Lereah now works at home, trying to rebuild his career and saddled with a sagging portfolio of real-estate investments.”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123152099299568447.html
Google ad revenue is very, very different than direct payments to write posts, or to “defend” a client on social media sites. The level of control over content is night and day. Indeed, I’m fairly confident that Sabrina has no control over what google ads show up on her site, nor do those web advertisers even likely know that they are showing up here.
I stand by my surmisal that this is a disinterested site, because I can’t see an organized interest group who would be willing to pay her. I think once Joe, reaching desperately for straws, argued that the “apartment rental industry” was paying her. If such a lobbying group even exists, they sure aren’t very good at spending their money.
“Google ad revenue is very, very different than direct payments to write posts, or to “defend” a client on social media sites.”
I didn’t mean to suggest it was the same, just that Google is a source of revenue.
“Sabrina has no control over what google ads show up on her site, nor do those web advertisers even likely know that they are showing up here.”
Well, she can affect it by what she posts about. Not saying she would, or that it would be worth her time, but ads show up based on the content on the site. I suspect it is not so granular as to distinguish between bull/bear views on RE. Was interesting to see that in that Wrigley condo where the Cubs were referenced, a sports authority ad showed up.
HD, interesting article on Lereah, especially that he held onto his condos.
“If such a lobbying group even exists, they sure aren’t very good at spending their money.”
Kind of like JZ’s clients.
“This is the perfect development for a retired train engineer or locomotive hobbyist.”
LMAO!
Remember JZ never does predictions regarding pricing so the reductions here were 100% completely out of the blue and noone could’ve seen them coming.
In addition those who purchased earlier are more mature/mature enough to buy. That’s the framework JZ is taking these days with regard to buyers vs. renters.
As posted on Lucido’s blog re Union Row:
I am an architect that lives near this development and have friends that have purchased 3 of the units. They all have private yards measuring approx. 25′ x 75′ and amazing, guaranteed views of downtown. The are all happy.
As far as the location issues, they are always in the eye of the beholder…
IMO, Gary and his ilk on CC love to brag about their ‘expert’ opinions, yet the reality is always much more nuanced. All of this arguing and much of it on CC is only about egos and NOT about real estate.
and as that dastardly JZ points out, the five remaining units are the FURTHEST from the Dan Ryan…. huh? go figure….
and although I am not an Expert like all of you, it appears to me that this all-townhouse development that started LATE in the boom at the WORST location in Chicago is holding its own quite well….
oh geez…JZ’s like Beatlejuice. You say his name 3 times and he surfaces from beneath the ground.
Notice that Joe has no legitamite defense so he has to bring up ‘scoutmaster vs Den mother’. He’s deflecting from the matter at hand by pointing out pettie details.
I go past the Union Row development twice a day on the ol’ BNSF. It is absolutely mind-boggling that anyone would think this is a good place to live.
I hope you aren’t referring to me as JZ (I’m sure Sabrina can confirm this for you), but more importantly, what ‘petty details’? ‘Details’ that apparently make a black and white opinion whether gray, no? BTW, the comment I made on Lucido’s blog refers to both JZ and Lucido….
Yeah I always get a laugh when I ride the BNSF and there’s a huge sign that says something along the lines of “if you lived here you could be home by now!!!”
Also, Congrats sparky, Joe Zekas, and now jack, you learned how to use a proxy server… good thing all those developers are paying you so well since you’re such a super smart computer brainiac!
one of the first things they teach you in architecture schooling is that ‘opinions’ are meaningless (I ‘like’ this, or I ‘hate’ that means nothing), so, to translate this into Union Row context, it really doesn’t matter what suburbanites that ride the Metra into town think, it’s what the owners who I know (all dog owners, BTW) and the 27 others who actually bought at this development think… I once again need to point out that this very late boom development appears to be more then holding its own quite well in this market…
And I can guarantee that I have no dog in this fight other then to point out the ridiculousness of 90% of the self-serving comments on this site…particularly from ‘experts’ such as JZ and Lucido…
I, for one, think that ‘thank God’ I don’t live in the Park Hyatt every time I walk by… so what? If you all were truly ‘experts’ you would be judging and comparing this development on the numbers, not on opinions….
The fact that you’re lumping GL in with JZ shows how little you know about this site jack.
And jack this site is all about opinions–if you want to use numbers to back up your opinion that is encouraged as well.
@jack
in JZ I’m refering to Joey Z.
in ‘petty’ I mean ‘little/insignificant/of no consequence’; as in mixing-up denmother vs scottmaster is ‘of no consequence’ in our debate of Joe Z being a paid shill. Since Joey Z has no legitimate defence, he tries to deflect from the actual topic at hand.
I’m not sure how long I have followed this blog, but I am sure Sabrina can again confirm that it has been more then a few masochistic years…
The fact that you don’t see why lumping Lucido and JZ together makes all the sense in the world (afterall, both these guys have very big dogs in the fight) reveals how insular this blog has become…
So, if it’s just about expert opinions (like Lucido’s wife) that probably should be readily admitted more often. But be doing so, I have noticed that always following the CC conventional wisdom/opinion will often lead to missed opportunities and a very myopic view of the world… and a bunch of commentators who are always having to fall back on ‘they must be crazy’ for anyone that doesn’t buy into the myopia…
And truly, isn’t most real estate in Chicagoland opinion based? We have enough different cuts of meat in different grades that people are purchasing based on their opinions. My opinion of where I’d like to live unfortunately overlaps with too many others (green zones generally) and thus demand drives the scare resources price up.
My opinion of the place that has a train in the backyard is that I’ve already lived like that once, and would not chose to do so again if other options were available. And I don’t see an appeal of the neighborhood of 320 E 21st so I wouldn’t move here either.
@Wicker, well said ^^
However, based upon the numbers and when it arrived on market, the Union Row would appear to be significantly more successful then the Chess Lofts… however, it is kinda apples and oranges except for the fact that both are in unconventional hoods…
“to translate this into Union Row context, it really doesn’t matter what suburbanites that ride the Metra into town think, it’s what the owners who I know (all dog owners, BTW) and the 27 others who actually bought at this development think…”
Well, I’m not trumping up my opinion too much (and it’s just that, an opinion), but I’m a temporary suburbanite that is looking to buy and had, for an incredibly brief amount of time after the price cuts, considered buying there. Before I realized that, to me, the location is nothing short of god-awful.
I’m glad that the developers were able to find people that were willing to buy there, but it sure as heck isn’t me. Plenty more fish in the sea though…
Cheese-y lofts…
To: you don’t know “Jack”
Do you know if open your mouth, look upward and you pretend to “shake” a salt shaker into your mouth your brain will actually make you taste the salt? Try it!
any thoughts on the the Chess Lofts, folks?
“The fact that you don’t see why lumping Lucido and JZ together makes all the sense in the world (afterall, both these guys have very big dogs in the fight) ”
The difference is Gary’s blog isn’t pushing a view of the world that is indefensible/nonsensical against the backdrop of facts.
I get the impression from his temperament that JZ wants to put people in new homes, at any price, regardless of their best interests.
Instead from Gary I get the impression he wants to meet people’s needs with regard to purchasing or selling a home, and isn’t willing to compromise his integrity if selling someone a home may not be in their best long-term interests.
“any thoughts on the the Chess Lofts, folks?”
Pretty cookie-cutter looking, seemingly artificially low assessments, meh location, closets for bedrooms, not for me.
Also for those interested there’s a good article in the WSJ today about Option ARMs recasts and their waning significance.
Due to HAMP and people walking away/defaulting early there are about half the outstanding option-ARMs out there than there were at their peak (580k vs. 1.05MM). Basically the article spells out that they’re a drop in the bucket with regard to the housing mess at this point and the government is aggressively working to convert them to other loans, even with principal forgiveness (IO, vanilla ARMs, 40-year fixed).
The sad part is people that undertook these loans are most likely to benefit from principal forgiveness programs as they are the most likely to be the most underwater on their mortgage and this seems to be the main criterion for this.
Here’s the link:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303429804575150161178252530.html?KEYWORDS=option+arms
Today I saw an 06 mortgage modified from a 30 year IO to a 45 year P&I! No mortgage payment since Nov ’08. In foreclosure, going to be continued for months if not years.
LOL 45 year mortgage, just think if they ever pay that off (lol) they’ll probably have paid 4x the cost of the property in interest
Yeah, mortgage executed in 2006 and date of maturity was 9/1/51! I started laughing out loud when I read that. The owners are 50 right now. Imagine taking out a 45 year mortgage at age 50!
“Yeah, mortgage executed in 2006 and date of maturity was 9/1/51! I started laughing out loud when I read that. The owners are 50 right now. Imagine taking out a 45 year mortgage at age 50”
Its better than a reverse mortgage many elderly people got tricked into!!!!!!
(before i get blasted i know a reverse is sometimes a great alternative for some)
I’ve heard of 40 year mortgages used in states like CA but never anything longer (aside from IO). And never in Illinois.
It was originally a 30 year IO loan with a balloon at the end (crazy, huh?) modified in 2007 into the 45 year P&I; 45 years so that the payment would stay the same. 9.25% interest. On a property in Maywood – Maywood for god’s sake. It’s amazing the toxic garbage the banks put out there. No wonder it all imploded.
9.25% on a mortgage and that isn’t usury? Wow..I’m amazed banks are able to get away with this. 9.25% sounds like a rate on a 84 month car loan with someone with a sub-600 FICO, not a mortgage rate.
I just added the following to my extended thread with Gary Lucido at his ChicagoNow blog.
Gary,
Your entire original point was about Union Row’s proximity to the Dan Ryan overpass and the railroad tracks.
For my amusement I checked the proximity of your home address in University Village to the Dan Ryan overpass, using the Google Earth distance tool.
As a rough cut, about half of the Union Row units (including some of the ones that were the subject of your post) are further away from the Dan Ryan overpass than your home. According to Google Street View you have a crystal clear view of the Dan Ryan overpass each day if you head east in your car.
All of University Village – the development you live in – east of Halsted St, i.e. 100s of units, is closer to the Dan Ryan overpass than the units in question at Union Row. Many UV units, as you conceded, lie along the same railroad tracks.
According to your Web site you’ve sold at least one UV unit that’s closer to the Dan Ryan overpass than the Union Row units you posted about.
You also have listed a unit at 41 E. 8th, hard on the El tracks but don’t mention that in the write-up on your Web site.
So, the lesson here is that what’s OK for Gary to live near is a horrible thing for Union Row buyers. It’s OK for Gary to fail to make the kind of disclosure that he mocks Union Row for not making. It’s OK for Gary to tout the locational advantages of a unit on the tracks but bad for a developer to do the same.
What axe are you really grinding here, Gary? Or were you simply taking a cheap shot to puff yourself up?
Bob, subprime car loan interest rates are as high as credit cards.
9.25% on a 45 year fixed for 100,000 loan gives you $322940 of interest paid over those 45 years
by comparison 5% on a 30 year fixed for 100,000 gives you 196163 of interest paid over those 30 years
shockingly not that much different I thought it would be far worse for the 45 year
If you did the math right the difference would be a lot greater.
Joe:
Wake up on the wrong side of the bed? Seriously. Lighten up!
And to think you’re getting paid to be this grouchy on other people’s websites.
The main difference between yochicago(zekas) and here is that Sabrina doesn’t restrct people from posting their opinion. Right joe?
I was also not aware after 2 years that zekas was combing sites to post on behalf of developers. I just thought he enjoyed being a prick.
You are right, Kenworthey. It is not unbiased. The site is biased to the north side properties (because that’s where most readers want to see properties from), vintage properties and lofts (because I personally like those.)
It’s also funny that someone might think an apartment rental company is paying me to do this blog- but then, I DO espouse renting versus buying (at least in the condo market.)
As for the advertising- I’ve been approached by many different companies (foreclosure companies, real estate agencies and the like)to advertise here but I don’t want to give up the freedom to post on whatever properties I would like to (unlike Joe). So I just keep the Google ads because it’s easier.
And no- you don’t know what ads are going to pop up on any given day (as someone pointed out.)
What was it, Sabrina? My questioning Sonies’ math or highlighting Gary’s hypocrisy?
Not all of my comments here are on behalf of clients, as you very well know.
stephen tfo
If you follow my site enough you’ll see many opinions expressed with which I disagree, including many fact-based negatives about develoeprs and developments.
Buyers have banded together to organize against developers on my site in several instances, and I’ve facilitated that. I’ve never seen that happen here.
I don’t allow anonymice to mindlessly bash industry people without having anything of substance to contribute. I try to keep the site focused on property and neighobrhoods. I try to maintain a high level of accuracy in the information that’s on the site, including info in the comments. I think trashing people for how they live and the decisions they’ve made in their lives is disgusting and I strongly discourage that. I detest racists and shut shut down that type of talk mercilessly.
CribChatter’s a great venue for a certain type of person and I’ve strongly encouraged a number of them to remove themselves over here. Some of the regulars here fall into that category.
Sabrina,
Sometimes people here are so wrapped up in hating on me that they don’t recognize when their leg is being pulled. The bit about the apartment rental industry was a joke – based on your anonymity, lack of transparency and the pro-rental atmosphere you admittedly encourage.
You’re defaming the integrity of the many young journalists I’ve employed over the years with your suggestion that our content is dictated by our advertisers.
If you took an honest look at my site you’d note that most of our posts focus on non-advertisers, including many who affirmatively refuse to advertyise because of my independent stance, and people with whom we have no business relationships because they simply don’t advertise anywhere.
As someone who’s run ad-supported real estate publications and Web sites for nearly 25 years now, let me assure you that you wouldn’t have to compromise yourself to accept advertising. Most people in the industry understand, respect and value the independence of a site.
You fire the advertisers that don’t understand. I’ve fired many, and refused many others over the years. There are many bad players we simply will not provide any coverage for because we don’t trust the information they supply or dislike the way they do business.
Joe has banned so many people from his site nobody bothers to visit it anymore so he has to come here to continue his trolling and diatribes. He is still truly that coal town Appalachian small mountain boy with an inferiority complex that he carries around with him like a heavy stone.
And Joe you don’t need to worry about Sabrina’s website. I know it enrages you she allows an open forum for people to comment on developer’s projects. But at the end of the day there’s nothing you can do about that. The only thing you’ve done here after much hollering is make her link to pictures instead of embedding them.
I’d suggest you need to tend to your own website, Joe. Which, I suspect, is a colossal failure just like every other of the numerous business endeavors and careers you’ve attempted in your lengthy professional life.
Bob,
Here’s a bet for you, Bob, to back up your certainty of my failure.
As an estate planning move I gave my kids one of my publications nearly 20 years ago. I’ll bet each of them had a higher income when they were in high school than you have today. We’ll settle the bet based on comparing tax returns.
Up for the challenge?
I suspect Joe turned out to be an ineffective lawyer, as he can NEVER resist a pissing contest. Clients probably got tired of paying the bills for it.
My biggest client (in terms of billings), Pete, wound up raising millions in equity for my real estate deals and partnering with me on them after I left the practice. My second biggest client hired me as its half-time general counsel after I quit the law firm to put radio station deals together for them around the country.
I’m an occasional poster to CC. I love this site and the information provided, and I check it almost every day. I have immense respect for Sabrina and the regular contributors, and I am grateful for this site. That said, I am annoyed at how personal the attacks have become on both sides.
While I personally feel that JZ tends to be a gigantic confrontational arse, I honestly do not condemn the role he plays on behalf of his clients. He’s performing the age-old function of public relations – raising the profile of properties he represents and pointing out their positive qualities. In a free market, there is nothing wrong with this function provided transparency exists. To JZ’s credit, he has been consistently forthright in his relationships to the developers he represents and I truly appreciate that. For every JZ, there are many others who shill with no transparency whatsover. By contrast, JZ disclosed on his own volition that he is paid to represent his client on blogs and chat boards. Big deal if this specific detail of blog-posting didn’t come out sooner – nowadays, PR is much broader than putting out press releases and anyone on CC could have reasonably, and rightly, assumed he was representing his clients in his posts.
Representing a client doesn’t mean that you believe you are pulling the wool over the eyes of an unsuspecting audience (unless you are a defense attorney where you are required by law to do so). Take this property for example . . . new 2 BRs are starting at $249K. This is much less than many comparable properties. We can argue all day long whether this is a good deal or not (I vote ‘not’), but potential buyers are invited to make their own trade-offs. What if your time horizon is 7 years? 10 years? What if you work down the street? How much of a discount is enough given the proximity to the train and the Dan Ryan? I can say that, even with a family, if the neighborhood and price point were right, I would have no problem with the train or the freeway. Others may – and do – value things differently than me. Those same others may be there to point out the problems, while JZ is there to point out the virtues. The developer can’t do that entirely on their own, so they outsource JZ to assist. That’s capitalism and I like that.
I conclude by saying that I have no problem with the ‘ends’ here. In fact, I think it is a service. Consumers benefit when they have access to both the positive and negative, whether they come from the same source or not. So much information is available now – and it is so easy to vet that information – that caveat emptor is not, and should not, be as ominous as it once was when buying a property. However, I will say that I do question the ‘means.’ While I do appreciate the transparency, I believe JZ may be doing more harm than good on behalf of his clients. Emotions are inextricably linked to the buying process, and a buyer who turns over JZ’s rock could well be turned off by his constant habit of belittling and alienation. But I don’t know – that’s a matter for his clients to decide, and the numbers will tell the tale.
In the meantime, to quote a true American hero/moron, “can’t we all just get along?”
Yochicago was a site i used to visit back in the day, there was occasional decent information on price cuts/developments, and photos/videos from inside units.
but as of late it’s completely been taken over by shameless advertising and plugs by the staff for developers.
‘non biased reporting’, yeah right. it’s a giant billboard for chicago area developers.
joe, ‘i make more money than you do’, ‘my kids have more money’, ‘i made a million dollars’, blah blah, that is immature slimey BS.
don’t taint your slimeball reputation more by making such attacks. please.
Thanks, chi_dad, for your reasoned and detailed take on the subject.
FWIW Chess Lofts is also represented by a client (Frankel & Giles). I’ve had nothing to say about this development because I know next to nothing about it.
Almost 18 months ago we reported that half the units were being rented, and I’m sure that info is relevant to CCers:
http://yochicago.com/nearly-half-of-chess-lofts-homes-up-for-rent/7981/
i’d have to agree with Bob on this one, near 10% nowadays/esp back then is highway robbery; let alone 29.99%
30pc car loans are rare but 19 or 15pc is common. Its not like the debtor will actually pay for the terms of the loan. They all default in the end. Its just a matter of how long the lender can keep the payments coming.
chi_dad
That was one of the best posts on this site I have ever. You couldn’t have been more on the spot.
??? chi_dad validates Joe’s uncivil and despicable behavior by calling it capitalism and PR?
Anybody who says on an online forum, “As an estate planning move I gave my kids one of my publications nearly 20 years ago. I’ll bet each of them had a higher income when they were in high school than you have today. We’ll settle the bet based on comparing tax returns.” is clearly a frackin’ goof, and quite frankly, Sabrina should ban his posts. There’s a huge difference between being a shill and being an a$$hole. Joe is clearly the latter.
“#Mike HG on March 29th, 2010 at 11:55 pm
chi_dad
That was one of the best posts on this site I have ever. You couldn’t have been more on the spot.”
I once had a pet rock, i named him chippy. I would take him every place i went in my back pocket, until one day i slipped on a ice patch by independence park and fell on my bum bum. at that moment i decided to keep chippy in my front pocket.
“We’ll settle the bet based on comparing tax returns.””
I’ll bet you my d–k is bigger than yours….
Douchebag
Joe,
I used your site religiously during my home search until you removed me. I almost bought a condo from one of your developers that same month because of your site. You can infer why i didnt.
What does Joe, he has more money than all of us put together! He doesn’t need us!
“Yeah I always get a laugh when I ride the BNSF and there’s a huge sign that says something along the lines of ‘if you lived here you could be home by now!!!'”
Ah, I’ve seen that sign but didn’t make the connection. Hello fellow BNSF commuters 🙂
I’m not a BNSF commuter, I have in-laws that live out in the exurbs so I take it a few times a year. I bet that sign will still be up though when I make my next journey out there in May oh and I bet it will still be up come Christmas time…
Pete:
You should try my “salt shaker” experiment … open your mouth, look upward and you pretend to “shake” a salt shaker into your mouth your brain will actually make you taste the salt
“??? chi_dad validates Joe’s uncivil and despicable behavior by calling it capitalism and PR?”
I condemned the uncivil and despicable behavior when I said I was annoyed at the personal attacks and referred to JZ as a ‘gigantic confrontational arse.’ But I find the neighborhood and property videos quite helpful, actually. That’s where PR and capitalism come in.
“As an estate planning move I gave my kids one of my publications nearly 20 years ago. I’ll bet each of them had a higher income when they were in high school than you have today. We’ll settle the bet based on comparing tax returns.” is clearly a frackin’ goof,”
Agree, and not just a frackin’ goof but a gigantic confrontational arse.
“and quite frankly, Sabrina should ban his posts.”
Don’t agree.
“There’s a huge difference between being a shill and being an a$$hole. Joe is clearly the latter.”
Yes, that’s what I said.
Irreverent and hilarious
“Mocha on March 30th, 2010 at 9:30 am
Pete:
You should try my “salt shaker” experiment … open your mouth, look upward and you pretend to “shake” a salt shaker into your mouth your brain will actually make you taste the salt”
chi_dad: Did you enjoy the reboot of Battlestar Galactica? I just put season on in my Netflix queue to catch up.
Snore.
chi_dad:
Thanks for taking the time to explain to ‘myopia nation’ what I did not have the patience or literary skills to do myself…
This blog would be so much more useful use of one’s time if the Lucido’s, bob’s, homedelete’s, zekas’, etc, actually gave insights and opinions just once in a while that were focused more upon objective observation and facts rather then inflating one’s own ego and serving one’s own biases….
Ah well, I had heard it was good, and I knew ‘frackin’ (a term you used above) came from that series.
Ahhh more of Joe Zekas and his baseless e-p_nis contest p_ssing matches.
Truth is Joe I can’t compare tax returns of your children with you or anyone, really. That’s because they’re loaded with sensitive information, which would have to be edited out. Which means if the document is already being edited its so much easier and more tempting to put a leading digit on one of those lines.
Case-Shiller came out for Chicagoland today Joe and it fell to 125.11. Yeah nobody could’ve seen that one coming. Just like we can’t see it dropping any lower its against the laws of physics! LMAO!
Bob,
This ones for you……
http://www.brokehipster.com
Enjoy
Broke hipsters are terrible for the future of the housing market. The housing market is trashed when the base of the ponzi scheme are hipsters!
Actually the base of the ponzi scheme are clueless, uneducated people who can’t realize when they are being taken advantage of… aka Typical American
Who needs a salt shaker…? Dont be shy….
“It’s pretty normal for a company to hire people to monitor social media and respond to challenges to their products or services. ”
So where can I sign up to sit around and read the Internets all day?
Any updates on Chess Lofts? What is going on with the developer and bank?