Condo Alternative in this Vintage Cottage? 2343 W. Moffat
This 1893 vintage 2-bedroom cottage at 2343 W. Moffat in Bucktown (or is this Logan Square?) looks like it has been recently renovated.
Is this a condo alternative? While it’s only 1504 square feet, it has a two car garage and you don’t have to deal with anyone living above or below you.
It’s also recently been reduced by $38,000.
Evan Kane at Weichardt Endeavor Realty has the listing. See more pictures here.
See the YouTube video of the property here.
2343 W. Moffat: 3 bedrooms, 3 baths, 1504 square feet, 2 car garage
- Sold in August 1988 for $51,000
- Sold in September 1994 for $85,000
- Sold in April 2002 for $251,000
- Originally listed in January 2009 for $617,900
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $579,900
- Taxes of $7069
- Central Air
- Heated floor in the master bath
- Skylights
- Bedroom #1: 14×11
- Bedroom #2: 15×11
- Bedroom #3: 11×7
251 to 580 in 6 years. renovation notwithstanding, what type of neighborhood did this developer think he was building in?
I’d hop in at 400K
I have to commend the realtor on this property. A youtube walkthrough? Excellent use of technology. I wouldn’t have known about the hidden staircase behind the bookcase, which is cool.
This ‘passive investor’ aka home renovator is going to lose their shirt.
100% appreciation every year, yikes! I agree with ChiGuy on the price.
Here’s why you don’t renovate your house TOO much. Because you’ll never ever make your money back when you have the nicest house on the block. Sorry but you will never find anyone that is willing to pay $386 a sq. ft one mile from Humbolt Park. No matter how nice it is. A great location for B-Town though, one block from the El, and not on Milwaukee or Western itself, and its not even west of western? Regardless 579k is a freaking pipe dream here! Hell $379k sounds about right.
“homedelete on February 11th, 2009 at 11:20 am
This ‘passive investor’ aka home renovator is going to lose their shirt.”
Really? Considering he bought for $251k and probably didn’t put more than a hundred grand into it, I’m not sure how he’s going to lose his shirt.
OK so lose his shirt is a little tough on the guy but see sonnie’s post above: he will never get $579,000 for a 1,500 sq cottage. But it is a nice looking place. Small but nice.
Bradford,
Don’t you know the following.
-Real estate only goes down
-In your lifetime you will never make money in real estate
-You never do market analysis on pricing, its just going back to what it was priced at in 2004.
There is one area of the city that is immune to these guiding facts, lincoln park always goes up.
I bet he HELOC’d the heck out of it to finance all of these improvements. It is a nice looking place, but maybe a 400k place.
$579k is high for the size IMHO, yes. But it’s a SFR, not a condo, and it’s just a few blocks from the hottest neighborhood in the city.
It’s WAY too small for me, but my price-o-meter pegs it at $450-500k.
Surprisingly there are only recorded mortgages of $252,000 (however he’s a serial refinancer) from what I see on CCRD. That’s why I modified my ‘lose his shirt’ comment. Of course there are other ways to do renovations without access to a HELOC: Home Depot credit card, Lowe’s credit card, Sears credit card, etc. He strategy is to make the minimum payments until the house sells for $300k over purchase price is 2002, pay off the credit cards, PROFIT!
“probably didn’t put more than a hundred grand into it”
Do you think so? Can you send me the name of your contractor? I’d like to have that amount of work done for $100k. Note that the kitchen appears to be in an addition (and thus, likely the master bath, too). It also looks like they had the whole place tuckpointed and probably a new roof.
I can’t watch the youtube at work–does it show the basement at all? That’d be the wildcard for me. Although it should come as no surprise that I’d buy this over a (similarly priced, even if twice as big) condo 12 times out of 5.
Also, lauren, “100% appreciation every year, yikes!”: $251 in ’02 to $580 in ’09 is 12.7%/year*, and (despite any contention to the contrary) there is some return on the renovation dollars, at least on this one–if they spent $100k, they should reasonably expect at least $50k in increased value (I’d argue more, b/c of the nature and completeness of the reno, but accept that many disagree).
*and 8.8% from ’88 to ’94; and 14.5% from ’94 to ’02. All of those prices basically representing teardown value.
HD- enough with the speculation. Why can’t you believe that someone in this world can buy a property without a HELOC loan and CAN afford what they have purchased.
With 1500 SF now, I assumed no addition.
It will sell in the $500’s
This is my former home (see link below) which I bought in 1995 (gut rehab) for $149K. I renovated and sold it in 1996 for $343K and made $140K profit (no agent on sale or buy). recently sold again for $585K. It is 3 blocks from Western Avenue. They have not changed anything from my renovation.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2143-W-Shakespeare-Ave-Chicago-IL-60647/3732396_zpid/
No, no one ever makes money on real estate. It sucks. It sucks all the way to the bank folks.
“Of course there are other ways to do renovations without access to a HELOC: Home Depot credit card, Lowe’s credit card, Sears credit card, etc.”
Yeah, sure. Despite how easy it was to get credit, it was never easy to get $300k in unsecured credit. Or even $100k w/o substantial income. Some people just choose to spend their money differently, HD. It’s completely reasonable that these folks put all their time and money into this house for 6+ years and now need to move for wahtever reason. You might not think it makes sense, but I think you’d agree it’s more reasonable than floating $200k on credit cards for half a decade.
You’re correct though, it does appear that the back portion of the house is an addition. Whether that existed in 2002 or not however, I have no idea.
“With 1500 SF now, I assumed no addition.”
Then that’s a seriously weird brick wall b/t the kitchen and the (I guess) dining room. Looks like the original back wall to me, but what do I know?
“It is 3 blocks from Western Avenue. ”
Looks more like about half a block from Western to me.
Awesome! I’ve been waiting for someone who actually lived in one of the properties to show up on the site. I’ll go ahead and say – great job on the renovation. My question on the usage: was it a bit weird having the fireplace in what was a dining room? Was the front room used more or less because of the extra space in the middle of the house?
Either way I’m not moving, but cool place.
“sold it in 1996 for $343K … recently sold again for $585K”
For a gross annual return of ~4.55%. Not absurd, though I wouldn’t pay $585k for the place, no offense.
And it turns out my reading retention skills are sub optimal, as the house paulj listed is not the one in crib chatter. I don’t feel so bad as it appears JPS fell for it as well. However – even on your real house I think the renovation looks good.
valasko,
Bob and HD like to believe that everyone who has a nicer place than theirs financed like crazy and are drowning from being so under water… personally, I think Bob and HD could be the same person – Bob being the somewhat angrier alter ago.
fullhouse,
I am betting you have a high LTV on your financing as well. “Mortgage debt = good debt”, eh? LOL.
Actually I bought with cash – nice guess as usual, Bob.
$300k in unsecured debt was difficult; $100k in unsecured debt was a tad easier. The 25%-75% I’ve seen are between $30k and $80k in unsecured debt. Figure the guy did all the work himself and I could see this as an $60k-80k renovation. No likely but no unheard of either. To get that much debt all you needed to do was make the minimum monthly payment. Do that for a couple of years and the limits would keep going up and up. Game over when you can’t juggle the bills.
Regarding this property, when REO comps in the ‘hood start hitting they will seriously drag down this price. The REO attorney I’m sitting next to is of the opinion that this place, even with the renovation, is worth $340k on a good day after REOs set the comps. It’s just a matter of time.
“Despite how easy it was to get credit, it was never easy to get $300k in unsecured credit. Or even $100k w/o substantial income”
Regarding high ltv and heloc buyers….Uh-huh…if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, quacks like a duck……then of course, this seller *must* be rich, renovated their home with 100% cash and god damn it *deserves* to have a sweet sweet profit on the renovation of his home in the greatest property bubble of all time.
“fullhouse on February 11th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
valasko,
Bob and HD like to believe that everyone who has a nicer place than theirs financed like crazy and are drowning from being so under water… personally, I think Bob and HD could be the same person – Bob being the somewhat angrier alter ago.”
OK, I see I got confused by paulj as well.
paulj did well — but this ain’t 1995-2005, and probably never will be again.
The problem I see with $500K+ for a 1500 sq ft SFH in Bucktown in today’s market is that for similar money you can buy a similar sized townhome with off-street parking in LP / LV. Most of the advantages of a SFH, less maintenance, in a far more desirable neighborhood.
Paulj isn’t talking about this place, he’s talking about another house on 2143 W Shakespeare Ave. (about 6 blocks north and 3 blocks east of this prop)
I’m surprised he isn’t calling us racists though, since that’s what he does in all his other posts.
Couple points, after some research:
1. The 1504 sqft is the square footage recorded with the assessor. The assessor property notes do not appear to reflect all improvements, so I am dubious about the number, esp. b/c the building footprint (both city GIS and Google earth) appears to be ~1200 sq ft.
2. 2007 google streetview shows a horrible faux stone facade and no fence in front. So the exterior reno, at least, was recent.
3. New roof confirmed, as the city aerial shows a different color and no skylight, as shown on google earth.
4. The kitchen area looks to have been there in the GIS aerial, but looks like an old enclosed porch–so likely not a new construction addition, but almost certainly not in the sq footage and likely a significant job of upgrading/integration into the rest of the home. Does look like a flat roof, so I’d be worried about mid-room leakage where the “addition” meets the vertical wall of the house.
Sure you did fullhouse, sure you did. You are obviously wealthy given your “I paid cash” claims so your comments here should obviously be taken with a larger grain of salt than the multitudes of non-wealthy. LOL.
Good luck with your purchase then, hopefully your situation won’t be as bad as this potential seller’s who thinks they are going to get 600k for a cottage.
Who said I was wealthy? …maybe I socked away $250K from living in a studio for 8 years, making $75-95K/year (that is what you said you made in an earlier post, right?).
Has anyone considered what’s going to happen when interest rates go up? Play around on the calculator and see what price is required to match the current monthly payments. Sell everything while you can.
“what’s going to happen when interest rates go up”
They aren’t going up–we’re facing massive, systemic deflation, remember?
When they go up, it will almost certainly be in combination with inflation; expectation of future high interest rates are not necessarily a basis for selling hard assets. Strict (or, traditional, if you prefer) underwriting standards are a bigger threat.
Do you think wage inflation will keep pace with higher lending rates and standards?
High unemployment = lower wages overall
Higher lending standards = lower rates overall (less risk in the system)
“Do you think wage inflation will keep pace with higher lending rates and standards?”
Two different questions:
2. No, wage inflation will not “keep up” with lending standards; they are entirely unrelated. And, as Sonies notes, those who qualify will get lower rates than they otherwise would with the new default data from the past several years.
1. Who knows? Maybe, maybe not. You gotta live somewhere, and if you’re sitting on a jumbo-priced property with a low, fixed rate mortgage, trying to sell it into this market to avoid potential future capital losses b/c of a guess that wage growth will fall further behind top-line inflation (and parallel increases in mortgage interest rates available to future borrowers) is an investment strategy built on fear, not rigorous analysis.
Sorry to confuse you all. I was doing a comparison. The house listed on Cribchatter is similar to the house I rehabbed. The one I did is 3 blocks from Western, the one on Moffat is closer to Western but still considered a decent part of Bucktown.
And yes Sonies, you go your usual rascist barb in. I suggest you move to Goethe and State, you will feel safe there.
“I suggest you move to Goethe and State, you will feel safe there”
I had my pocket picked near there.
I like the unique features in the place (at least the non-granite countertops, the bowling alley wood in the bathroom, and the staircase).
Kudos to the realtor. The video was great. How every property over 200k doesn’t have a something like this with what a listing agent is going to get paid.
“And yes Sonies, you go your usual rascist barb in. I suggest you move to Goethe and State, you will feel safe there.”
Goethe and State is nothing, I prefer walking around Central Park Ave and Roosevelt, or West End and Central. Or 71st and King. Those are my types of places.
And actually, for my previous job, I’d canvas in those parts of town, and I was fine. I had more issues in the Russian mob ran parts of town. Black people don’t make me nervous like the rest of the church lovin crackers in the suburbs do.
“like the rest of the church lovin crackers in the suburbs do.”
Amen to that.
Out of curiosity whats the general cost to dorm out those roofs?
This block of Moffat, east of Milwaukee I think, is lovely as is the entire surrounding neighborhood. The original housing stock is better than lots of LP/LV, no horrible 50-80s trash, and high quality new construction. There is a great park and lots of young families. Much nicer and less crowded than anything you can get for close to the money in LP/LV.
“There is a great park and lots of young families. Much nicer and less crowded than anything you can get for close to the money in LP/LV.”
Tell us about the attendance area elementary schools. Is there one (or more than one) in BT/WP/anywhere-west-of-the-river-and-south-of-Irving-Park you’d recommend? Or are all of those young families sending their kids to private school?
“Or are all of those young families sending their kids to private school?”
They all bought there hoping to sell and make lots of money when it’s time for kids to go to school.
Oops.
Sorry Sonies and Paulj…I live on Goethe and State and I’m black…oh my!
Drummond elementary on Cortland and Wolcott is considered to be very good – white yuppies send their kids there.
“Drummond elementary on Cortland and Wolcott is considered to be very good – white yuppies send their kids there”
That’s a Montessori magnet program, with a *city-wide* lottery admission. I’m only asking about the open-enrollment, neighborhood schools.
We went to check this place out a little while ago. It is definitely a bit high, but uses the space incredibly well, especially compared with other SFH’s we’ve looked at of a similar size. I don’t actually think the kitchen is an addition if I remember correctly, if so, then the house would’ve been TINY before it. It’s definitely better than the house paulj mentioned as it has 3 full bathrooms, 2 upstairs bedrooms and a nursery upstairs with space for a 3rd full bedroom (albeit small) downstairs. And there’s a full bathroom downstairs, thus making it an excellent guestroom.
They didn’t refinish the front, you’re looking at a different house, as googlemaps is usually off by a house or two. They did re-do the door tho.
There’s no park in the vicinity, just 4-5 other houses for sale, and an empty lot for sale down the street. And it IS half a block from western and a super pretty auto-body shop. You can hear the el from inside the house, it’s passable if you’re ok getting used to things like that, but if you’re not it’ll drive you nuts.
The real deal-breaker tho, is this:
http://tinyurl.com/cjfhot
A girl was raped right in front of the house not 2 weeks ago. Not the best article to find when you’re googling the address, IMO.
Just took someone to this home this afternoon and really liked the unique design elements. Eclectic and cool. This is a case where a video is really needed to communicate the unique features of the place. I think video would be pretty boring for most places.
I second the opinion about using the space well. The kitchen was beyond what was originally the brick back of the house, so it was really tiny before. I liked the mosaic behind the stove but the guy I was with did not. The sink was tiny and did not have a disposal.
That master bath is way cooler than I expected. The green tile is not nearly as obnoxious as I thought it would be. It’s clear glass on top of a colored background so I think that looks better than what I thought was opaque tiles. I liked the irregular shapes in the bath and shower and the glass blocks in the shower. One annoyance factor was that the master bath cabinets can only be opened from the very bottom. You have to stoop way over.
Lots of cool details like the hallway bathroom door hangs on an old industrial type roller system. The master bedroom has a hole cut in the closet wall and a rubber bumper to allow the bedroom door to open completely without damaging the wall. The attic rafters are exposed in the small bedroom. And somehow it all works. If I tried stuff like this it would look stupid.
Oh…we did not think this place was a mere 1500 square feet. Felt to me like it could be 2000, they guy I was with guessed 1800. Of course, a realtor would never underestimate the space so maybe this is a testament to the use of space.
Neighborhood is not that neighborhoody. Too close to Western and a muffler shop. However, only a couple of blocks to the blue line.
One other thing I forgot to mention. The lot is small. Must be 100 feet. There is no yard between the garage and the house.
Lots of units in the vicinity for sale in the $300k+ range according to Zillow. Sounds like a great neighborhood. I’m sure values in the neighborhood will only go up. When I’m on the blue line I see all the vacant units as the train passes by; the graffiti on the vacant buildings is cool ‘urban’ art; I’m sure they’ll all sell this summer for more than asking price after multiple bids. It must be a hot, trendy neighborhood.
http://www.zillow.com/homes/map/2343-W.-Moffat,-chicago_rb/#/homes/for_sale/map/2343-W.-Moffat,-chicago_rb/41.915233,-87.684981,41.913956,-87.687562_rect/17_zm/
They just did another price drop. It’s now listed at $535,900.
Aaaaaand another price drop. $499,900. If they sell for over 425, the buyer’s a sucker. I mean, how can you not think they’re going to keep dropping every 2 weeks at this point.
paulj – “It will sell in the $500’s”
Are my low guesstimates raciss? Please do entertain further.
I’ve got a car to sell you..purrs like a kitten and will get you off this lot in a jiffy..