Does the El Matter in 2015?: A 4-Bedroom SFH at 4511 N. Wolcott in Lincoln Square
This 4-bedroom contemporary single family home at 4511 N. Wolcott in Lincoln Square just came on the market.
If it looks familiar it’s because we chattered about it in February 2013 when it was first on the market as a new construction house.
We debated the noise level of having the El right behind the house and whether or not the layout was kid friendly. See our chatter here.
The home was built in 2012 on a longer than normal Chicago lot measuring 25×152 and has a 2-car garage.
Yes, that’s the El right behind the house.
It has an “exotic wood plank” and stone exterior with an open interior floor plan.
The house has red oak flooring on the main level.
The kitchen is in the contemporary style with walnut and glass cabinets, Caesar stone counter tops and Bosch appliances.
Three of the four bedrooms are on the second floor.
The house also has a lower level family room.
The listing says there is a new rear deck and patio.
The market is hotter and the inventories lower than in 2013.
Will the El even matter?
Jean Metzler at Conlon has the listing. See the pictures here.
4511 N. Wolcott: 4 bedrooms, 3 baths, 3200 square feet
- Previous house sold in August 2012 for $170,000
- Originally listed in January 2013 for $799,000
- Sold in August 2013 for $720,000
- Currently listed for $825,000
- Taxes are $14,649
- Central Air
- 2-car garage
- Bedroom #1: 16×14 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 11×12 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 11×10 (second floor)
- Bedroom #4: 10×13 (main floor)
- Family room: 17×51 (lower level)
This is a great house other than the metal in the bathroom. And the El. Yeah, the El kind of wrecks the house. I lived next to the El one year of my life, and I’ll never do it again. I had to literally pass out from drinking too much booze every night just to get any kind of sound sleep. The el wrecks this house.
The movie “The Blues Brothers” answered this question: “so often that you won’t even notice”. At this location the El is not right up against the building, but it’s still gotta be loud and building rattling.
I do wonder with all of these mega houses that are from 800K to 2M at what point will property taxes break the bank? No one knows the method to this madness. But we do know that every three years property taxes zoom up astronomically in this Democratic runned city and state.
I think it’s possible to really minimize the sound. Friends of ours are converting an old building directly on the el into their home and have installed triple glazed windows and extra insulation. We have the el running underground near us and it’s not an issue. We can hear it, but it sounds like one of those rain storm white noise tracks.
I lived for a year with the el in my backyard. Brutal. I always wondered why Chicago doesn’t outfit their el cars with rubber wheels, like they do in the Paris subway. Cuts down on noise amazingly.
Lived in the west loop on the el for years. Good windows help and reduce noise. But sometimes like last night I want to open those windows. It takes some getting used to but it rarely bothered us when we slept.
It Helped that we were on a straightaway with minimal noise. After they added the Morgan stop there was some braking noise but not the same as on a turn. The real noise issues were around watching a movie. The noise could disrupt a serious scene.
“I do wonder with all of these mega houses that are from 800K to 2M at what point will property taxes break the bank?”
Under Rahm’s proposed increase, they are supposed to go up $500 per $250,000. So if you own a $750,000 house, you’ll pay $1500 more.
That’s what it costs for your kid to be on the traveling soccer team every year. Do you really think the upper middle class cares?
Chicago property taxes are still way below most of the surrounding suburbs, even with the increase.
Ha. This house sat forever before it last sold and the weaknesses it had then still exist now, can’t see why anyone would cough up a premium for this one. Another case of greedy sellers IMO. In addition to the deal-breaker train, this is a relatively sketchy block for what is a generally good area.
Just the other day was looking at a 950K total rehab 4 doors from the el track. With the windows closed it was not great. With the windows open it was pretty bad. The funny thing is that right next to the track someone was building a new home – smaller footprint though. I have no idea how to discount for the el. All bets are off.
“Under Rahm’s proposed increase, they are supposed to go up $500 per $250,000. So if you own a $750,000 house, you’ll pay $1500 more.”
Believing Chicago politicians when they speak publicly is a dangerous game, girl.
I’d say its anywhere from 10-20% discount for living on the el
“Under Rahm’s proposed increase, they are supposed to go up $500 per $250,000. So if you own a $750,000 house, you’ll pay $1500 more.
That’s what it costs for your kid to be on the traveling soccer team every year. Do you really think the upper middle class cares?”
It is the principle of the thing. The increase is solely going to pay for pensions. It is galling. If the increase was going to pay for more police officers, instead of paying for the lazy retirees, people would be less angry.
retirees aren’t lazy, they worked their entire lives… but paying so much money to people who aren’t working… now thats kinda stupid. They need to switch from a defined benefit plan to a self contributing plan and no double/triple dipping allowed!
“They need to switch from a defined benefit plan to a self contributing plan and no double/triple dipping allowed!”
Haven’t they already done this- at least on the statewide pensions? I thought they’ve totally changed it for people coming into the system. Not sure about local pensions though (CPS, police/fire, library, park district etc.)
The problem is basically that we’ve been underfunding it all of these years (Chicago and a bunch of suburban cities, actually. We’re not alone in this.) When you have a pension fund that is only half funded and then masses of baby boomers start to retire, you’re going to be in a bit of a problem. That’s why the state legislature is forcing these payments to the pension funds. They gave the cities 5 years to come up with some kind of way to pay for it. Of course, Chicago still waited until the last minute. And now this is the result. Now we have a big payment due and no way to pay it.
The only option is to increase property taxes. It’s the only way to quickly get a big lump sum like that which is needed. Even a higher sales tax isn’t going to get you there.
They should be taxing retirement distributions to help fund this nonsense, but they don’t in the state of Illinois for some pandering political reason…
“No one knows the method to this madness.”
Anyone who invests some time in figuring it out does. It’s pretty clear, if rather counter-intuitive if you know how property tax works in most other states.
“But we do know that every three years property taxes zoom up astronomically”
No, they don’t. There is a re-allocation every three years, but the aggregate property tax take in the city of Chicago has tracked inflation almost exactly over the last 11 year–it’s up 40 bips more than CPI.
So, if you have a property in a neighborhood that that does much better than average since 2003, your taxes are a lot higher. If not, they’re *lower*. Overall, assessed value (before the equalization factor) is 10.1726% higher than 2003–so, yeah, a property that has seen it’s AV double in the past decade (eg, basically all of WestTown) is going to have had its taxes more than double in nominal dollars–but that’s all because of the real market value of the property. If you don’t want your taxes going up, buy in a shtty neighborhood.
The pensions they are receiving are outlandish. The current employees can pay for the retirees. I shouldn’t have to contribute. These pensions are like winning the lottery.
” If the increase was going to pay for more police officers, instead of paying for the lazy retirees, people would be less angry.”
I thought the whole point of retiring was that you get to be lazy.
You get to be lazy when you retire if you contribute a sizable portion of your salary towards your retirement. You don’t get to just contribute 2-3% above the social security contribution amount and then retire with an enormous pension. If I only contributed 3% of my salary to retirement, there would be no way I would ever retire.
Believe me, I am no fan of government spending or high taxes. However, this was part of the agreed upon compensation package. Theoretically, if the retirement wasn’t so generous they would have had to pay more in salary. Of course, we can argue whether or not the overall compensation was too generous but a contract is a contract. The time to complain about this was back when it was being offered.
Now, I’d like to know what pension is being offered today and how many applicants they have for every position that is open because if there is a line out the door then it’s too generous.
You can see salaries for all city employees here: http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/depts/dhr/dataset/current_employeenamessalariesandpositiontitles.html
I’m seeing lots of truck drivers making over $70k a year. Most police officers are making about $85k a year. Sergeants make over $100k a year.
Sanitation laborers make $70k+ a year.
I should apply to be a traffic signal repairer. They make $95k a year.
After looking at these wages, I see absolutely no reason these people also get gigantic pensions. Two traffic signal repairers could afford the house that’s the subject of this post. Ridiculous.
“I should apply to be a traffic signal repairer.”
You have a electrician’s union card? Wow!
Those useless TMA people you see waving traffic in the loop get paid 60k a year + pension + full benefits
“Those useless TMA people”
As to most of them, were they merely useless, it would be an upgrade.
Those TMA people drive me nuts. Why do you need a person telling you what color the light is? They don’t really exercise any judgment whatsoever.
I had one of them tell me not to go when it was green. I went anyway and he came around and wrote down my license plate number. That happened a few years ago. What was he doing with my license plate number? I never received a ticket.
Hey everybody, this anti-union/pension tirade makes me want to vote for Scott Walker! Hahahha
Alas, if only Scott Walker didn’t hate women… Why do all of the republicans seem to hate women?
The Chicago salaries and pensions are dangerous game the city is playing. Houston is slated to become the third largest city in the US while chicago’s population is stagnating or declining. Long term the city will need to layoff workers to pay for workers who are no longer employed for the city.
and just think they are making twice as much as your most recent average college graduate… lol
“I had one of them tell me not to go when it was green.”
I had one yelling at me about not running over pedestrians. When I was further from any pedestrian that the car next to me that she had not yelled at.
But if there is an illegally parked car blocking traffic, they just shrug.
The city desperately needs more police officers. Instead of raising property taxes to pay for more officers, they are raising them to pay for retired ones to just sit around and laze about. I read that we have equal numbers of retired officers and active officers.
The city could easily lay off 50% of its workers (excluding police officers/fire fighters/EMTs) and no one would notice. I wish the mayor would stand up for non-city workers and do a mass lay off instead of raising taxes.
Never understood why layoffs have to be the answer. Why not cut pay? If you gave the workers a choice between 10% pay cut and 10% layoff I wonder which they’d choose. I’m assuming of course that there are 10 applicants for every city position.
“If you gave the workers a choice between 10% pay cut and 10% layoff I wonder which they’d choose.”
You don’t know *anything* about how unions work, do you?
Why even bother negotiating with unions? Why not just tell people they are going to be paid X amount and have that be that. I’m sure plenty of people would want these city jobs even if pay was cut in half.
“Why even bother negotiating with unions? ”
I’m imagining the size of the rats in front of City Hall and Rahm’s house.
“If you gave the workers a choice between 10% pay cut and 10% layoff I wonder which they’d choose. ”
Unions function on seniority. They will ALWAYS throw junior members under the bus and let them be laid off before accepting even a modest paycut.
In my experience with the blue collar laborer type unions, is that the members live paycheck to paycheck no matter how much money they make. A 10% pay cut is like getting them ready for bankruptcy.
“As to most of them, were they merely useless, it would be an upgrade.”
I can see the job listing now…
“REDUNDANT STOPLIGHT NEEDED AT INTERSECTION”
Starting Pay $5k a month + full pension at age 55 + full paid for health insurance
“Why even bother negotiating with unions? Why not just tell people they are going to be paid X amount and have that be that.”
Sounds like someone is looking for a pair of cement loafers…
The pension crisis is why public worker unions should not be allowed. The tax payers are not fairly represented at the negotiating table when these deals are being hashed out.
I don’t really have a problem with pensions for police and fireman given the stresses and physicality of the job. However, there is no reason some bureaucrat, teachers, or other support workers need pensions. They should be like the rest of us in the private sector.
“In my experience with the blue collar laborer type unions, is that the members live paycheck to paycheck no matter how much money they make.”
Why? Is it that they can’t manage their money? It looks like many of the blue collar city workers are doing very well. The light repairers are making more than me.
—–
I welcome the rat signs. I think those signs are cute and add a little extra flair to otherwise dull neighborhoods.
“the rat signs”
Nononononono. The giant inflatable rats.
They’d have to make extra big ones if the city cut off the unions.
Jenny, have you priced out one of those big lifted Ford pickup trucks? They aren’t cheap… throw in the fully dressed Harley Street Glide, boat, and housing payment next thing you know paycheck to paycheck.
“have you priced out one of those big lifted Ford pickup trucks?”
Not even ‘lifted’, you can spec an F150 to be over $50k.
Which is cheap compared to a Yukon Denali–which spec out around $80k with ‘normal’ options.
“Jenny, have you priced out one of those big lifted Ford pickup trucks? They aren’t cheap… throw in the fully dressed Harley Street Glide, boat, and housing payment next thing you know paycheck to paycheck.”
Plus the boat, and quite a significant % are paying child support/maintenance; and if they live in the city they’re probably paying private school tuition too….
I know a guy (well his wife actually), a firefighter in some ‘burb out there, they have a nice boat. They cruise around the chain all summer long. Well they used to because now they’re getting a divorce.
And I’m the lawyer with student loan payments. And for cops, lots of people have stressful jobs. there are lots of more dangerous and stressful jobs than being a cop, especially in some suburb where all they deal with is bar fights, domestics & DUI’s. Nothing stressful about writing up property damage/theft paperwork, we call that insurance adjusting.
I’m sick of hearing about how teachers, police officers, firefighters, and the like have the such difficult jobs. They get paid more than they are worth. They also chose those jobs. I don’t think there’s anything magical about these jobs. Lots of jobs are difficult. These public employees need to get over it and stop complaining. They have it better than the vast majority of people.
A family with two traffic light repairers, is in the top 5% of wage earners: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affluence_in_the_United_States
“And I’m the lawyer with student loan payments.”
Don’t blame them just because you made a bad choice.
Oh, and I’m completely priced out of gigantic pick-up trucks and boats.
“A family with two traffic light repairers, is in the top 5% of wage earners:”
Do you think it’s easy getting one of those jobs, never mind two? You deserve to be a five percenter if you can do get that.
“And I’m the lawyer with student loan payments.”
“Don’t blame them just because you made a bad choice.”
Yeah, how old is HD? How does he still have loans?
Jenny, police & fireman have very difficult jobs. Particularly, your beat cop in a major urban city. It is not easy dealing with the scum of society on a daily basis. It is a dirty job, but someone has to do it.
My father was a cop, so I saw it first hand. It is hard to explain it to folks who don’t live it.
While there are certainly some worthless folks in law enforcement, I believe our soldiers, cops, firemen, and first responders should be held higher than just being a working stiff. I don’t mind my tax dollars funding generous pensions for these front line positions.
Stayed at the Virgin back in July. It was really nice, but even in a “quiet room,” the el was a bit of an issue.
“Yeah, how old is HD? How does he still have loans?”
He’s always seems thrifty to me; I’m surprised he still has them. I have barely scratched the surface on mine.
““Yeah, how old is HD? How does he still have loans?”
He’s always seems thrifty to me; I’m surprised he still has them.”
He graduated at about the best time for loan consolidation — it’s entirely possible that he got a ~2% fixed rate, which is aka “free money”. If I had a sub-2% student loan, I very well might have them on the 30-year Ronco repayment plan.
“there are certainly some worthless folks in law enforcement”
There are also certainly some detrimental folks in law enforcement.
That said, as a society we *want* cops and firemen to retire (from that job) while still fairly young, and the pension is a mechanism to make that happen. And the pensions are *clearly* not a good (fiscal) option, but (like democracy) the alternatives are worse.
I didn’t quite get 2% rates but close enough not to be statistically significant. And refinancing some of the private loans into a variable rate right before the GFC, but not before private loan securizations ceased to exist, was probably the best financial move of my life thus far. Those loans are now paid off.
and it’s not ‘free money’; i hate that term, i’m still repaying principal, there’s nothing free about having nondischargable debt with zero consumer protections and default rates of 25% and capitalizing interest. I tell people it’s better to owe the IRS than it is to owe Sallie Mae. At least you can go BK on the IRS debt after 3 years (except in certain cases) but student loan debt will be garnished out of your social security checks while you’re in hospice.
“A family with two traffic light repairers”
Well, here’s the initial training program:
http://www.ccc.edu/colleges/kennedy/programs/Pages/Electrical-Line-Worker-(Overhead)-Advanced-Certificate.aspx
Then you need ~4 years as an apprentice before you can even apply for the job. And then you (probably) still need to be somebody somebody sent.
But then you could also get a union (pensioned) job with ComEd, that pays about the same.
“Stayed at the Virgin back in July. It was really nice, but even in a “quiet room,” the el was a bit of an issue.”
I stayed one night on the el side and it was outrageous. They even give you earplugs on your nightstand. I moved to a higher floor on the other side and I couldn’t hear anything.
“it’s not ‘free money’; i hate that term”
Of course you do. But the amortization schedule doesn’t change the fact that, when your applicable interest rate is essentially CPI (or less), that you got to use the money for free (which is the same state the Banks are still in).
“But then you could also get a union (pensioned) job with ComEd, that pays about the same.”
I know someone who works for ComEd. He’s worked for them for 25 years. No pension. He pays into his 401k. They have generous benefits though. He works a ton of overtime (especially during the bad storms, obviously) and makes over $100,000 a year. He never went to college.
He’s told me they can’t find enough people to do the job of climbing the telephone poles (as he does.) Millenials don’t want to do it. They’d rather work at the movie theater.
Oh- I just saw an ad in the Redeye today for training for women in how to get into the trades- bricklayer, plumber etc. First time I’ve seen that.
yeah I know a guy who wanted to climb poles thinking he’s make $100k a year. except they make you pay your dues and you spend 4 years+ reading meters in inclement weather. and don’t plan on having summer plans. ever.
“Don’t blame them just because you made a bad choice.”
law school was not a bad decision. going home with the skank drinking at the end of the bar, well, let’s just say that was a bad decision that lasts a lifetime.
“except they make you pay your dues and you spend 4 years+ reading meters in inclement weather.”
The meter reading positions will all be gone soon after they update all the meters. The meter readers tell me that they have a bunch of people retiring so all the readers will back fill those positions.
These unions are ridiculous with their “apprenticeships.” It’s just a way to keep competition away from their coveted jobs. I wish they could figure out a way to get these jobs done with robots or automation of some sort. Then, we’d be paying intelligent people to invent the cool robots/computers instead of lazy “workers” and their unions.
Good riddance to the meter readers. When I lived in a house those jerks would always leave our gates open. Our dogs once got loose because some idiot left our gate open. Luckily, the dogs were fine, but we’d have to check every single day that all of the gates were closed before letting the dogs out.
“I know someone who works for ComEd. He’s worked for them for 25 years. No pension.”
The union pension is pretty small, but it exists.
Also, all of the Exelon/ComEd info states that *all* employees are ‘eligible’ to participate in a defined benefit plan. For example: “You are also eligible to participate in a pension plan – Exelon provides the pension benefit at no cost to you.”
So, I don’t know about your friend, but he *could* have been in a DB plan.
“So, I don’t know about your friend, but he *could* have been in a DB plan.”
sounds like a DC “pension”
Sigh. No wonder why the majority of my electric bill goes towards things other than the actual electricity I am using.
“sounds like a DC “pension””
Maybe. But there are repeated references in SEC filings to DB plans.
“Also, all of the Exelon/ComEd info states that *all* employees are ‘eligible’ to participate in a defined benefit plan. For example: “You are also eligible to participate in a pension plan – Exelon provides the pension benefit at no cost to you.””
He contributes but they have matching. But he’s still putting in the bulk of the money. I never said the benefits were bad but they’re no different than if you work for Kraft or whomever. He’s maxing out so he’s been able to put quite a nice bit away.
“yeah I know a guy who wanted to climb poles thinking he’s make $100k a year. except they make you pay your dues and you spend 4 years+ reading meters in inclement weather. and don’t plan on having summer plans. ever.”
No way. No meter reader. Are you nuts? They train you in an apprenticeship program. You get paid, but less than what you’ll make full time. It’s a couple of years program. But then you’re full time.
Oh- the horrors of not having “summer plans.” Not that. Whine, whine, whine.
Is it any different than a big firm lawyer working 30 straight days when in trial and eating in the office for all three meals 7 days a week?
I’ll answer it- NO.
If you want to make the top salaries, you don’t work 9 to 5- in ANY profession. And yes, my friend has worked Thanksgiving, Christmas Day, New Years Eve, Easter, Veteran’s Day and every other holiday in between. But so has my friend who is an airline pilot. Oh, and my other friend who is a chef.
Your point exactly?
MY point was that this is a really good job and most younger people don’t want to do it. You don’t need a college degree but you do need some technical skills and you need to be in shape.
Interestingly, that ad for “Women in the trades” in the Redeye this week says in the ad that you have to be physically capable of doing the work. Yeah- not everyone is cut out to be a bricklayer or work in construction. Or climb poles.
This article basically says that Rauner is saying that “Chicago first needs labor reforms, like cuts in workers compensation and lesser wages for those involved in city construction jobs.”
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20150915/BLOGS02/150919884/rauner-all-but-kills-emanuels-plan-to-exempt-homeowners-from-a
Rahm was going to exempt most of the middle class from the tax increase- but state law would have to change for him to do it so Rauner holds all the cards.
“MY point was that this is a really good job and most younger people don’t want to do it.”
Other than the age old cliche that the younger generation is lazy, if there any some truth to millennials and such not wanting to ‘work’, I have my own theory. This theory isn’t necessarily articulated by younger workers and you likely won’t find it in any poll, but the generational shift, if there is one to speak of, is due to inequality.
You mention above working holidays, nights, weekends, hard work, for ‘decent’ but not good pay; why would anyone want to do that? The only person who truly benefits from that is the business who is using you until you’re of no value, or too old, or paid too much, and you will be laid off. Your pension is gone, the 401k match is paltry at best, job security even for the union workers is only as good as your seniority (which most younger people have little of anyway). Sure you get a $70k salary, which after taxes, the high deductible health insurance plan, and retirement savings, leads itself to about $2,000 a paycheck maybe less. Yet at the end of the day its hardly an even exchange given the value the company exploits out of you. Of course younger people want more freedom, more flexibility, and don’t want to play by the old rules where the company exploits you until the executives bleed the company dry of all it’s cash and million dollar bonuses. You may put 20 yeras into your job, have a nice house, car and then your job will be offshored to India; and good luck trying to find a new job with similar pay.
These generational shifts don’t come out of nowhere and loss of bargaining power of the worker is reflected by the younger generation not wanting to be in the rat race anymore. Of course this is not for all businesses, Goldman has no problem hiring, and the start ups in CA have to pay way too much; but for middle market companies in the midwest, they do complain that junior workers don’t want the long hours, they dont want to be partner, or work in the C suite. And I don’t blame them.
why work so hard? just so you can pay for the 10 other lazy fucks that don’t feel like working because they are on “disability”?
A lot of millennials are lazy. Many don’t seem to want to “pay their dues” to move up like older generations.
With that said, I do think HD is right in that employment is viewed differently. Short-termism has pushed many companies to abandon putting their employees first and as a consequence, many employees now view themselves as free agents and have no loyalty to the company. Why work this weekend if they can just fire me next week on a whim? What is the point of going the extra mile for no real loyalty in return?
@sonies, that’s a good comment too. and also, why work so hard so your boss can have a second summer home or take another vacation to europe? Or so that the shareholders can get an extra few cents dividends?
exactly russ, employers treat their employees like shit so they get shit production in return. Amazingly, companies that do pay well and take care of their employees get much better production out of each person… wow what a concept
seen it first hand at the place I work at, when I started we were a smallish company and have been growing fairly fast, year after year the management treats the employees worse and worse (all the while having yearly sales conferences telling everyone how awesome they are), and what do you know, the quality of work from them has done nothing but go downhill.
HD: $100,000/year (plus OT!!) is “‘decent’ but not good pay”
Yeah, look at you rich guy, sneering at a 6-figure job that doesn’t require a day of college as merely ‘decent’.
When the most likely alternative is $250,000 of education (plus 4 years of lost wages), and no real skill learned.
“Short-termism has pushed many companies to abandon putting their employees first”
Chicken and egg, and then a vicious cycle. Corporations have demonstrated their reduced loyalty to employees plenty of times since the 70s. It is (generally) irrational for a typical worker to be loyal to a company that cannot be expected to be loyal to her.
oops–misread that a bit, but it is still a two-way street–employers are willing to cut anyone, anytime and employees jump around more both because of that and because of a desire for…something, and both sides react rationally by reinforcing that approach.
“yearly sales conferences telling everyone how awesome they are”
Only the sales staff–which works ok if 100% of employees are sales staff. Otherwise, *everyone* else gets the message that they’re just in the way.
“$70k salary, which after taxes, the high deductible health insurance plan, and retirement savings, leads itself to about $2,000 a paycheck maybe less.”
Um, after *taxes* only, $70k isn’t 1,000 a week, unless you have dependents.
no no no… management goes out of the way telling the sales staff how awesome they are at being management… its pretty annoying and I don’t even go anymore because who wants to hear some mega rich douchebag toot their own horn for 3 days, I got work to do
and the company is not 100% sales staff, not even close
“management goes out of the way telling the sales staff how awesome they are at being management”
Ah–yeah, that sucks even more. But the companies that fete the sales staff, and expect the schmucks doing all the work to remain motivated, are a close second.
“Um, after *taxes* only, $70k isn’t 1,000 a week, unless you have dependents.”
Yeah, that’s what I meant.
“HD: $100,000/year (plus OT!!) is “‘decent’ but not good pay””
I went to high school with a guy who now does line work for comed. I see him on a regular basis at friend parties, etc. He started out doing meter reading for many, many years at $30 or $40k a year ; While I don’t know his salary now as a line tech for certain, I do know that he doesn’t have a base of $100k, although he may make around that with lots of mandatory OT. That aside, all he does is complain about comed, and says it’s one step removed from a City job, where all his coworkers know somebody, or are related to someone else. He says upper management and the office staff is the same way too. He got the job because he knew somebody that helped his resume get to the top of the list too but then he complains that he has trouble moving up the ladder because those jobs are reserved for friends and family, and positions are rarely filled on merit. The fact of the matter is that the grass is not really all that much greener anywhere else.
“Is it any different than a big firm lawyer working 30 straight days when in trial and eating in the office for all three meals 7 days a week?”
You know a lot of big firm lawyers who regularly go to trial? And if you do, what’s the source of that 30-day period?
“You know a lot of big firm lawyers who regularly go to trial?”
No but a lot prepare for trial all the time only to settle shortly beforehand.
My ex-boyfriend worked 60 days straight once and only got a day off one weekend when we went on a 2-day vacation and he didn’t bring his laptop. There was also a time before we met, where he had to work in New York for 3 months straight. He had the option to go home on weekends, but there was so much work that going home was difficult.
There always seemed to be a trial for which to prepare and which would inevitably get settled right before the trial started.
It’s not a good situation if you want to have a relationship or eventually have kids with whom you might want to spend time.
Every profession works long hours. Very few people who are truly successful work 40 hours a week. The problem is when you feel like it never ends or there are no real rewards for the sacrifice.
One of the big issues today though is that technology has allowed us to be tethered to work for 24 hours so it is hard to escape and it probably causes resentment.
“Every profession works long hours. Very few people who are truly successful work 40 hours a week. ”
And that’s why rich kids are all F*’d up and on Seroquel and Adderol etc.
“You mention above working holidays, nights, weekends, hard work, for ‘decent’ but not good pay; why would anyone want to do that? ……Yet at the end of the day its hardly an even exchange given the value the company exploits out of you….You may put 20 yeras into your job, have a nice house, car and then your job will be offshored to India; and good luck trying to find a new job with similar pay.?”
Why? Because it’s a heck of a lot better than earning minimum wage collecting tickets at the movie theater.
If they can find people to do this work then it’s an even exchange. If not, then they will raise wages until it is an even exchange. You say it in your last line: “Good luck trying to find a new job with similar pay”. So apparently the job you are worried about losing is a great job. If you don’t want to be outsourced you need to stay marketable.
I’m no fan of corporate American. In fact it’s pretty dysfunctional, which is why I have my own company. But there are plenty of good opportunities out there for good workers. The problem is that as a percentage of the population there aren’t that many people who have the skills, the intelligence, and the work ethic that many employers need. Do you know how hard it is to find a good realtor? Well, that’s how it is with every profession.
“No but a lot prepare for trial all the time only to settle shortly beforehand.”
Yep.
I also had a biglaw friend who worked 45 days straight on a document production because the court gave deadlines and they had to review all the docs. When she went to the partner to quit, he said, “why?” and she said, “I’ve worked nearly 2 months without a single day off” and he said, “you have?”
She didn’t quit- but she eventually did 18 months later when she found an in-house corporate gig. In THAT job, she’s working 9 to 5 but she only gets paid $120k a year.
“HD: $100,000/year (plus OT!!) is “‘decent’ but not good pay””
I never said $100k was his base. I said he makes over $100k with overtime which is super generous. Comed is desperate for people. My friend also routinely goes to other states to help when there are hurricanes and other disasters. They get paid overtime for that too. I’m sorry for your friend HD. Life is too short to hate what you do. He should quit. The economy is humming along. Plenty of jobs out there. I hate the excuse “nothing else will be better.” Might as well give up and die right now then.
It’s crazy the pessimism among all of you middle aged people.
This is the best job market in 15 years. Stocks are near record highs and have been on an incredible 7 year run. This is the best housing market in Chicago’s history. EVER. Highest prices ever. Lowest inventory ever (which assures even higher prices next month and the month after that.) These are the lowest mortgage rates ever.
What is wrong with all of you?
“What is wrong with all of you?”
‘When everyone’s crying you should be buying. When everyone’s yelling you should be selling.’
not to mention this is the best muscle car era ever!!!
This is the best bicycle era ever!
I can hardly wait until they add curbs to protect the bikes. It will be fantastic when an ambulance needs to get down the street and cars can’t pull over because the bikes need their special protected lanes.