Flipper Alert: First Look Inside SoNo: 860 W. Blackhawk
SoNo, the new construction high rise at 860 W. Blackhawk in the Clybourn Corridor, will be closing on units on the lower floors shortly.
Currently, there are 17 units on the MLS. It looks like those are all from the developer.
There’s at least one flip on Craigslist. Here’s the listing:
Get a STEAL on this New Construction beautiful 1 bedroom with completely unobstructed views of a full Chicago skyline and great south and western sunlight.
Delivering in FEB/MARCH 2009, you will take over someone’s contract who can not close on it and in return get a GREAT DEAL – get $15,000 discount over what my clients paid and you will get a steal of a deal, you’ll buy from the developer so you’ll have a 1 YEAR WARRANTY, and instant $15,000 EQUITY in a gorgeous new home.
Check out the unbelieveable views and quality finishes. Condo only $375,000 and garage parking $30,000
See the pictures in the Craigslist ad.
There are models available to view in the building. Here are some pictures from one of the model 2/2 units that is listed for $574,400:
@Properties is handling sales. See more pictures here.
Does anyone know what is going to happen to the parking structure with this development? There were supposed to be two high rises but the second one is on hold. The parking garage was supposed to be in-between connecting them.
Stay tuned.
The developer must be worried.
Pretty. Always wanted white marble counter tops myself but never would put them in.
Whiet marble counters are lovely until you spill red wine on them.
Instant $15k in equity… haha!
I have friends who are supposed to close on a unit in the building in mid december and I wonder if they will run into the same problem of not being able to close due to value on their contract vs. value of the unit and the market…
Jason R,
I think it is safe to say at this point that pretty much anybody that is closing now is going to be underwater from day 1.
Are you saying that the bank might not let them close? Or are we just worried about a flipper being burned?
I love the look of this building. And the views are spectacular. I am glad it is already built and is now a sunk cost because I will be following it closely over the next few years and looking for a deal.
But yes they need to get that parking situation figured out.
I read on another blog awhile back a different developer bought the rights to build the second tower and they had plans that were different from a twin to this one. I doubt it will get built though.
Half this building will be rental. If you own it it you will lose terribly
I would assume that there are two parking structures, one for phase 1 and another for phase 2. Generally this gives the developer flexibility and they can sell off the phase 2 parcel easily. These two parking structures may or may not be linked when the total project is completed.
This building, the west tower, is condos only. They were supposed to build a second condo tower right next to it but given market conditions have instead decided to make it a rental only tower and it will be have a different layout and positioning on the lot. Unique space.
KP.. I sold this summer and 2 weeks before close the banks wouldn’t approve the purchase. Actually the banks didn’t approve 4 weeks before close but the broker at the bank conveniently told me 2 weeks before so I would have no options. Wound up having to finance part of the purchase for the buyer myself to make it close w/o lowering the price.
It’s an attractive building, and that area really can’t any worse in terms of gridlock/clusterf***edness, but these cutsie-poo names are AWFUL.
Prices are WAY too high for this far north and this far west. Anyone buying at this point in the cycle will get burned badly.
I just love it when I hear the term “instant equity”. Who could be stupid enough to believe that? If you’re not putting much money down, you simply do not have any instant equity. The selling price is the market price.
The parking is behind the building (to the north). You don’t see it because it is partially underground. It will not be linked with the 2nd building.
I spoke with the developer about 2 months ago and he stated that the 2nd building would be rental. It will share the driveway with the condo building.
“I just love it when I hear the term “instant equity”. Who could be stupid enough to believe that? If you’re not putting much money down, you simply do not have any instant equity. The selling price is the market price.”
Even if you put a lot of money down you still have no equity in this project.
Bob’s right, the second half, if it happens, won’t be the same/original design, as Booth Hansen hasn’t been retained for the design. In effect, a completely separate building, which supposedly will face the street to the east, not the south.
“Instant equity” is created by purchaing a property below its FMV. It makes no difference if you make a good purchace vs putting a bung of money down. Equity is FMV less any liabilities.
KP –
My friends entered into a contract that required them to put 10% of the purchase price down. That was almost 2 years ago. They have a one bedroom and one parking spot. It is almost 1000 sqft, but faces north. I think the total bill came to almost $320K. Now that they are coming up to the closing date, I’m wondering what the bank will loan them? Surely the bank won’t lend the remaining 90% of the purchase price, would they? The value of the unit is probably closer to $250K.
So my question is this, given the above. What are the options? Do you foot the difference between what you have on your contract and what the bank will loan you, or do you walk away from the closing and lose your earnest money (about $30K)?
The bank will probably finance. Most of my clients with recent closings have had no difficulty getting financing.
too far west and too far north??? Sounds like someone is loop for life. This is LP, the only neighborhood that most people know that don’t live in Chicago.
Not a fan of LP myself, but this is not too far west or north.
Turtle-
I think labeling the property as LP is not really accurate. It is kind of an island in that it is separated by major retail on one side, the highway on another side and the river on a nother side… If I lived in the true LP, I wouldn’t consider this it. Calling it clyborn corridor is much easier.
I think the buildings views are exceptional. The location is pretty darn good too, it’s not a “traffic-choked” as it would seem since it has access to Kingsbury and Halsted going south.
I like the fact that it has easier access to the Kennedy Expy. than most buildings. You aren’t far from Lincoln Park, etc, either.
It’s also near a Red Line stop.
I would purchase in this building (if I was looking), but the market price issues are tantamount now.
Lastly, I have heard poor things about the developer, Smithfield, and that their buildings are not “luxury”.
I think the building is actually quite cheap looking, lacking luxury, and I would suspect the interior and finishes are much the same.
It looks like a cheap steel skeleton.
Jason R.. Value of unit and parking is 250 or just unit?
Yes, but who is going to label it the Clybourn Corridor??
If you tell people that the new Whole Food is not in LP and is in the CC (yet it’s just across the street from the current one) they’ll be confused for days.
Yet, I’m sure the city would love to call it a different area than LP because of the industrial, and of course VIP’s 🙂
“the highway on another side and the river on a nother side”
You need to work on your geography a little. It’s on the same side of the river AND the freeway as LP.
Jason,
Please provide information on how you arrived at 250k. I’m sure you did your due diligence on this.
I think he thought the development was by Home Depot, which it’s not. It’s 100% LP.
Speaking of geography, do you think all realtors should have to take a test to know all the areas of the city? I’ve had probably 80% of the realtors who come to my property in River West and have no idea where they are. If you don’t know the city, how/why are you a realtor?
Turtle… waiting on Jason R’s answer to see if they need a class in math also.
Turtle – I hope you did not buy this unit thinking it was Lincoln Park? Lincoln park only goes to 1600 south. This 100% not LP! 860 w Blackhawk falls into Wicker Park’s coordinates.
don’t pay LP prices for WP crap!
the 2/2 actually looks pretty well detailed, but likely valued at closer to $375K.
Ugh, this market is really doing major damage to a lot of people.
Jones Lang LaSalle predicts prices will bottom out around 3Q 2010.
“Speaking of geography, do you think all realtors should have to take a test to know all the areas of the city? I’ve had probably 80% of the realtors who come to my property in River West and have no idea where they are. If you don’t know the city, how/why are you a realtor?”
That is because “river west” is one of those made up neighborhoods. Kind of like “west Bucktown”.
Turtle – The lines between neighborhoods are blatantly blurred by some realtors in an effort to generate showings and traffic. Just browse through a days worth of Craigslist postings and you’ll see terms thrown around like “West Lakeview” (e.g., Roscoe Village) and “West Bucktown” (e.g., Rogers Park) that are WAY outside those neighborhood boundaries. It’s frustrating … but then again, these are people motivated by commissions and sales. Where’s the incentive to be honest?
Oh and, “INSTANT EQUITY” made me laugh. These are some nice looking units with excellent unobstructed views. However, the prices are way out of line with the current market. I can’t imagine anyone closing on a 400K 1 bedroom. Try “INSTANT 100K UNDERWATER”.
One thing, tho–it’s not in the LP zipcode. It was in ’22 (Wicker Park) and is now in a new ’42 (which also, strangely, seems to have applied to Beverly) — still served out of the Wicker Park PO. So, on one reasonable basis, it isn’t LP.
1600 south for LP? Hmm. There is now that is wicker park seeing WP doesn’t start until 1600W.
No I did not buy there, but what neighborhood would you call it then?
River West is not made up, seeing it’s been an area for about 7 years already.
If we went by what you’re saying, then Wrigleyvile, Streeterville, South Loop and West Loop are all made up to.
1600 south for LP? Hmm. There is no way that is wicker park seeing WP doesn’t start until 1600W.
No I did not buy there, but what neighborhood would you call it then?
River West is not made up, seeing it’s been an area for about 7 years already.
If we went by what you’re saying, then Wrigleyvile, Streeterville, South Loop and West Loop are all made up to.
““West Bucktown” (e.g., Rogers Park)”
That’s a funny one. I guess we should just call Chicago “West Chelsea” (whether refering to NYC or London) or something.
Someone really has to redo the map for the city. If I’m sitting at the now defunct Circuit City on North I am technically in LP, but if I cross the street and sit at Old Navy, according to “zip code”, I am in Wicker Park?? Gimme a break
Alright since everone has their own idea of what these units are worth. What do you think for the 2/2 (similar to the model unit which is 1400 square feet)?
“don’t pay LP prices for WP crap!”
I wouldn’t pay LP prices for anything. And if you think Wicker Park is crap, you don’t get out much.
Neighborhoods have to start and end somewhere. SONO was marketed as “near Lincoln Park, where Lincoln Park meets North Ave”. It is really not a neighborhood at all but a bunch of night clubs and my favorite location, VIP’s.
Decent zip code map here:
http://www.chicagoreader.com/cgi-bin/sf/zipmap.cgi
I don’t think they fairly represent most northside ‘hoods, but along with the official ‘hoods, provide a basis for arguing about what’s where.
I don’t know, maybe I am crazy, but I don’t go by zipcodes, I go by geography.
To me Lincoln Park will always be bordered by North Ave on the south, Diversey on the north, the river on the west and the park on the east.
It seems pretty simple. And that would put this not in Lincoln Park since it is south of North Ave. I mean it is really close, but it isn’t Lincoln Park. Granted I don’t know what that makes it, but Clybourn Corridor seems accurate enough (although somewhat confusing because parts of what I would call the Corridor are in LP and parts aren’t). It is too far West to be Old Town although that is what this would be on the basis of where it falls N-S.
I just really don’t think there is a name yet for the area that is south of Lincoln Park and West of Old Town. This is probably because there hasn’t been anything worthwhile there for any length of time.
fair enough. It’s all too far east to be Wicker Park, as all of WP is cut off by the river at best.
So the area here:
W – River
E – Halsted
N- North
S- Division
Alright, it’s up for grabs, give it a name. And seeing that Clybourn isn’t even involved in the area, you can’t call it Clybourn Corridor.
Why would anyone call their development “So no”?
But turtle, what’s the area that used-to-be/still-is Cabrini b/t North and Division? It isn’t Old Town, either, and should be the same ‘hood as the stuff b/t Halsted and the River, no?
yeah, forgot about that. Aren’t they calling that whole area Old Town Village or something? Which technically would encompass:
Chicago to the south
Clybourn to the north
Orleans to the East
and then who knows to the west, I guess you could say the river and take it all the way to North to include the other area.
That whole area is strange. I have friends that live at 873 N. Larrabee and say they live in River North. I guess technically they do, and that was the attraction to live there to get the 60610 zip code, but that is not River North.
River north ends at Chicago. The area we are all talking about is Cabrini Green.
Steve is right, the more I think about it this area is Cabrini Green.
Of course no realtor on the planet is ever going to admit that if they want to sell anything there. Still, that is pretty much what it is. Call a spade a spade and what not.
Cabrini Green is what I always called it when I drove by.
I don’t think every street / block in the city falls within a “neighborhood”. It’s annoying that everyone looks to assign every inhabitable inch of the city a name (seriously, “Clybourn Cooridor”???). It’s really almost gotten to the point where a status symbol or class distinction.
“I don’t think every street / block in the city falls within a “neighborhood”.”
The mayor disagrees with you, except w/r/t certain industrial areas:
egov.cityofchicago.org/webportal/COCWebPortal/COC_EDITORIAL/City_Neighborhoods_8_5x11.pdf
According to this map (again, just a basis for argument), SoNo is in “Goose Island”. There are some clearly insane designations, tho–in particular, check out River North and Near North–how did anyone come up with that?
Anon — Thanks for the map, good stuff. I haven’t seen such a complete layout before. Most of the realtor maps leave out significant portions of the “fringe” or less desirable neighborhoods.
I suppose we don’t hear something listed as being in “Goose Island” because it’s easier to label something as “Lincoln Park” 🙂
Lincoln Park? Yeah right, and Sara P. can see Russia from her backyard.
Go to Redfin.
http://www.redfin.com/chicago
Type the neighborhood you are looking for in the search option and it will show you the borders of that area.
Anyone know how to determine the attendance borders for Chicago Schools?
“Anyone know how to determine the attendance borders for Chicago Schools?”
The fancy GIS system is at: http://schoollocator.cps.k12.il.us/
Only 1 LP closing yesterday. They sure are rolling in. I think the purchaces made in 2006 & 2007 may will struggle come 2010 but those purchaing in 2008 may fo pretty well down the road.
2438 N Southport Unit 2
Purchased in April 2004 for $355k
Sold Nov 14 2008 for $395k
Good idea to ask about the local school. The community elementary school is Schiller. The percent of kids who meet or exceed standards was only 25% for 2008. You would need to hope to get your kids into a magnet or charter school or foot the bill for a private one.
right, no realtor is going to say that they are taking you to a new condo in Cabrini Green, and as soon as the remaining 5 or so buildings are gone, so will that name officially.
“Good idea to ask about the local school. The community elementary school is Schiller. The percent of kids who meet or exceed standards was only 25% for 2008. You would need to hope to get your kids into a magnet or charter school or foot the bill for a private one.”
I think this building is marketed to young professionals and my guess would be there are no families in building. I don’t think schools are the issue.
Just like the lack of sales throughout LP, the issue is price.
Why buy a depreciating asset today when it will be cheaper tomorrow?
I was not thinking about this building in particular for schools. My wife and I are looking for a SFH with access to the highway. We have no children but realize that lots of families do and would prefer to buy a home within a good school district (for resale value). If it came down to two homes that are close to each other in location and value, we would give weight to the home in the better school district. We have been checking out Bucktown and find lots of people that have children fleeing that area when the kids get old enough to attend school.
For the time being, we are saving our cash, doing our homework and waiting for homes to return to non-bubble pricing. No knife catchers here.
“Why buy a depreciating asset today when it will be cheaper tomorrow?”
Why rent when you can buy a depressed property today? The values are out there, you just have to fund them. Just like equities, finding value takes due dilligence and is not something advertised in the local paper.
Bravo, Joe.
I take it you don’t agee with the SHill’s conclusion that “those purchaing in 2008 may fo pretty well down the road?”
As a potential buyer, do you think the SHill’s conclusion was determined by market knowledge or desperation for those disappearing commissions?
Let’s see, lock in housing costs for 30 years while they are still dropping, or simply wait it out while downward pressure increases on rents?
G,
As a potential buyer, I check out the sales history pretty throughly. I don’t want to get stuck with a home that someone paid too much for in 04- 05 or used as an ATM. I really don’t care how much money they “put into the place”. Price and location are key. That price has to reflect today’s reality and not the fantasy of the past 5-6 years when you could get money for nothing.
I believe that those purchasing in 2008 had better be careful or that trip “down the road” will last about 10 years to break even.
“I think the purchaces made in 2006 & 2007 may will struggle come 2010 but those purchaing in 2008 may fo pretty well down the road.”
The SHill can’t even remain consistent. He claims prices have not fallen, yet somehow 2008 buyers will fare better in the future than 2006 & 2007 buyers?
LMAO.
However, Joe, that 2008 buyer will never do better than waiting to buy at a lower price.
“As a potential buyer, do you think the SHill’s conclusion was determined by market knowledge or desperation for those disappearing commissions?”
My business is higher this year than in 2006 or 2007. I do not convinve clients to buy or not to buy. I simply find what they request and try to get it for them at the lowest price possible. I invest and buy a lot of properties and when I give my opinion it is based on what I am investing in and not for my clients.
There are plenty of values out there that make a lot more sense than renting. If you can’t find them then you should continue to rent and pay off someone else’s mortgage.
G,
I totally agree. Price is everything. You can refinance your mortgage down the road if you have high interest rates. You can never renegotiate your purchase price.
“The SHill can’t even remain consistent. He claims prices have not fallen, yet somehow 2008 buyers will fare better in the future than 2006 & 2007 buyers? ”
Fallen from what? The highest price paid in 2007. I have always said some who purchased in the past 2 years over paid. The majority of people did not purchase the top and have solid gains on their places. Of course I am only talking about the best neighborhoods.
G – When you finally take the plunge and buy that 600 sq ft condo, will you be nervous? LOL 🙂
G Says “As a potential buyer, I check out the sales history pretty throughly. I don’t want to get stuck with a home that someone paid too much for in 04- 05 or used as an ATM. I really don’t care how much money they “put into the place”. Price and location are key. That price has to reflect today’s reality and not the fantasy of the past 5-6 years when you could get money for nothing.”
What difference does it make what the seller paid or whether he used the place for an ATM? What does the listing history do for you as well? I could care less if the previous buyer (s) paid $100k or $600k for the property. It does not change what the property is actually worth. I take into consideration what the previous owner paid, or owes, when I create a negotiating strategy but for no other reason. G, it sounds like you have no idea how to value a property? Every property has an intrinsic value that has nothing to do with previous sales or financing activity.
Would you like my help in understanding the market 🙂
Steve,
G do not say this, I did. “As a potential buyer, I check out the sales history pretty throughly. I don’t want to get stuck with a home that someone paid too much for in 04- 05 or used as an ATM. I really don’t care how much money they “put into the place”. Price and location are key. That price has to reflect today’s reality and not the fantasy of the past 5-6 years when you could get money for nothing.”
I use the sales history as a guideline. Yes, it does help to determine how flexible the seller will be. I also like to use previous sales history as an indication of how desirable the home is. Was is on the market for years or did it sell quickly each time it was put on the block.
“Steve,
G do not say this, I did.”
Thanks, Joe. The SHill has always been deceitful here.
No problem, G.
As Steve says “Every property has an intrinsic value”. That value in today’s market is dropping quickly. A good dose of unemployment, higher taxes, and lack of bank financing for prospective buyers (if there are any) may help the sellers get their head out of the sand. Sellers must realize that they have to flush out the buyers with non-bubble prices.
Buyers are not plunking down their hard earned down payment on depreciating, overpriced homes . if you feel like buying a home based on 05-06 pricing, just watch CNBC for an hour and that feeling will go away very quickly.
One cool thing about this location is its near an OTB bar. I guess that could be good or bad on whether you’re good at the track or not.
The SHill says, “My business is higher this year than in 2006 or 2007.”
Sure it is.
“I do not convinve clients to buy or not to buy. I simply find what they request and try to get it for them at the lowest price possible.”
It sure seems like this method of order-taking would have been easier in 06-07. You know, when there were actually buyers.
“I invest and buy a lot of properties”
Of all the SHill’s claims, this is one I hope is true.
Joe says, “Price is everything. You can refinance your mortgage down the road if you have high interest rates. You can never renegotiate your purchase price.
”
“Sellers must realize that they have to flush out the buyers with non-bubble prices.”
Joe gets it. I’d wish him luck, but he doesn’t need it. As for the poor fools who are snared by the SHill? Caveat emptor.
Steven is a flat out liar when he says business is better now than during ’06 and ’07. Unless he’s an REO realtor. They’re doing pretty well I hear.
But since LP and GC don’t have foreclosure, according to him, he cannot be an REO realtor, which again makes him a LIAR. Ha!
So according to your logic, there are no good stock plays out there right now, right? The market goes down everyday and everything is overvalued? 5 years from now do you thing there will be any stocks that are higher than they are today? The same exact logic applies to real estate. There are some great values out there that will pay huge dividends down the road. This applies to both the equity and real estate markets.
How is that rental market treating you guys? Does your landlord at least paint the place for you or do you have to live in an old run down unit?
Patience is a virtue… What looks good now will look much better shortly.
Unless you need that commission now.
Steve said:
“How is that rental market treating you guys? Does your landlord at least paint the place for you or do you have to live in an old run down unit?”
You mean my brand new condo with the state of the art kitchen, granite countertops and bathrooms, hardwood floors and parking that I’m paying 40% less than I would to own it?
Just fabulous, thanks.
Oh- and my landlord lets me paint the walls too. Imagine that?
Sabrina – Me too….but I’m paying half and have marble floors. I could buy a new car EVERY year with the savings by renting (not even counting the price declines). With that kind of savings I can paint, remodel or whatever improvements and gladly let the owner benefit from it once I move out (I feel sorry for the owners who overpaid and are desperate to rent now….shouldn’t have listened to the commission based realtors).
By the way, Chicago is going to get hit with more unemployment as Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate (FIRE) jobs take a big hit. Now is not the time to buy.
Yes- there are amazing rental deals out there right now and more to come as more condo units complete construction.
Every address in Chicago falls within one of the 77 official “Community Areas.” SoNo is in the Near North Side neighborhood, but that term is little used.
About 20 years ago, when developers bought up much of this area and began renting to artists and photographers who were being priced out of River North, they began calling the area the “Halsted River Triangle,” i.e. the area bounded by Halsted Street, North Ave, and the Chicago River. Not a bad name, but since almost no one lived in the area it never stuck.
SoNo is clearly not in Lincoln Park, since it’s south of North Ave. North Ave is generally also the southern border of the Clybourn Corridor, although that may change as major retail development spreads south of North Ave.
Goose Island has also never stuck as a neighborhood name beyond the island, despite the Dept of Planning map usage, since the area has almost no residential uses.
Cabrini-Green, historically, only referred to the projects and the area they enclosed. This is too far west to be called Cabrini.
Near North Side is the only technically accurate name for this area, but it’s a bit of a no-man’s land which needs a new name. Halsted River Triangle, anyone?
P.S.
Has no one else noticed: when Crib Chatterers mistake a neighborhood, it’s just a mistake; when Realtors do the same, it’s a lie.
My experience – and I have lots of it, since we’ve produced millions of Realtor ads over the years – is that Realtors are just as ignorant about neighborhood boundaries as most other people. Honest mistakes, for the most part.
Joe… Back then Cabrini-Green to me was anything with a big glowing outwardly projecting radioactive perimeter you didn’t want to come within.
Ze Carioca,
I think you’ve misjudged the perimter. We had our offices at 815 Weed, right up the street from SoNo, from 1997 to 2002. Cabrii was a non-issue west of Halsted then, as it was before and after that.
Yeah I’ve noticed. Wonder why that is? Hmmm, could it be because Realtors are supposed to be professionals for which neighborhood boundaries are part of their expert subject matter, while Crib Chatters, by and large, aren’t?
Or, could it be because Realtors live on sales commissions, hence have a financial motivation to innocently “misrepresent” neighborhoods in listings to produce sales, wheareas most Crib Chatterers don’t have such motivation?
Just askin’.
JPS,
Your explanation could be part of the answer.
Many Realtors are professionals, and many aren’t. Professionals value their integrity and the ethos of professionalism, and understand that there are greater financial rewards from that integrity than from misrepresentations.
There are honest differences of opinion about the boundaries of many of Chioago neighborhoods, and it’s possible for even professionals to disagree about them.
Crib Chatterers seem to be powerfully motivated to call Realtors liars, whether or not they have a basis for doing so. What’s the deal with that?
“Many Realtors are professionals, and many aren’t.”
– Ain’t that the truth Joe. I’ve also experienced shear stupidity and can hardly call them “professionals” especially in the last 5 years or so. A Realtor® can be a valuable source of information and help but there are too many Realtards® out there. The profession needs to clean things up.
Consuemrs can clean up the profession, John, by being more selective about who they choose to work with.
Studies show that buyers have long had a nasty habit of linking up with the first Realtor they encounter. That is, by sheer odds, liely to be someone who’s inexperienced and unproven.
Pick someone with years of experience and success, and an affiliation with an established firm, and you’re likely to have a good experience. I’m not saying that there aren’t competent rookies out there, but they’re few and far between.
I’m having a typo problem today! Please forgive.
Joe – You are right, consumers need to be more selective but the Realtor® profession needs to provide standards and they have marketed that Realtors® are profession you can trust. You would say the same thing about M.D.’s that it is the patients fault…. Consumers need to be choosy but the profession needs to have much higher standards.
Meant — you would NOT say the same thing about M.D.’s…..
Because realtors ate nit
John,
The barriers to entry for becoming a Realtor are very low, and that’s unlikely to change (think large amounts of dues income to the NAR). Much different scenario for MDs, especially specialists.
The NAR does have a number of sanctioned professional designations (e.g. CRS) that demand significant learning and investment of time to achieve. You can always look for those designations. Verify that the agent claiming the credential has actually earned it.
Joe wrote: “The barriers to entry for becoming a Realtor are very low”
– Then how the heck can you call being a Realtor® a profession??? I watch the commercials….Suzanne researched this…we can do this. Come on, what a joke then. Then is has no more standards than a dog groomer yet they advise…and encourage…people to make one of their biggest purchases and financial decisions of their lives? No wonder the countries in mess. Thanks.
I agree with Joe about there being good (and bad) Realtors. There are many good ones- with years of experience but people generally DO hire the first one they meet at some cocktail party (or the friend of a friend etc.)
Same thing when they list their home. How many shop around and ask several agents how they’ll market the property? It’s not a large number.
I don’t think most Chicagoans are prepared for the coming layoffs. This weekend I talked to some young people in banking and they didn’t seem the least concerned about their bank or jobs presumably because it is not one of the ones having layoffs.
There is going to be massive contraction in employment in the financial services industry. Citigroup already announced 60k jobs being cut and this just the start. I don’t think its a stretch to expect these cuts to eclipse those that happened during the last recession.
Once people become unemployed they might be forced to liquidate their real estate and other assets at fire sale prices. Creating a downward spiral deflationary effect. This is the deflationary nightmare that probably keeps Bernake up at night.
“not one of the ones having layoffs” should’ve read “not one of the ones making headlines”.
Joe Zekas seems to be powerfully motivated to call Realtors professionals, whether or not he has a basis for doing so. What’s the deal with that?
Per Joe Z, “My experience – and I have lots of it, since we’ve produced millions of Realtor ads over the years…”
Follow the money.
G,
Note that I’ve said that some are professional, and some aren’t.
In any event, you make my point rather than undermine it. I’ve had long, in-depth exposure to a number of highly competent, highly professional individuals who work for thoughtful, responsible firms.
Most realtors don’t bring much to the table….a property scout service would be more useful. When it comes to the financial and investment end of real estate, consulting a realtor is low on my list. There are some smart money and investors out there that may also have a real estate license, but it isn’t the real estate license that is bringing the value to their services. Just my opinion.
Those of you asking about schools are forgetting that the British School is across the street from SoNo (obviously not public, but still available easily).
I still remember Lincoln Park being called more generally Old Town when I was a kid – where all the hip and rich folk lived. I think it was more a cross between Bucker Park and Lake View/Edgewater then though.
JZ: “Cabrii was a non-issue west of Halsted then, as it was before and after that.”
C’mon Joe, that’s just not true. There were the murders in a real estate office on Halsted post-97; I had my car stolen (from Halsted and Willow) by Cabrini (that’s where the cops found it) crackheads (paraphenalia left in the car) in ’98, so I have personal experience with the “issue”.
And Pre-97, you better believe that Cabrini’s existence affected the area b/t the Halsted and the river (e.g., would you have left your car parked there over night in, say ’93? I know I wouldn’t have; or walked thru the area at night–unless you were looking for a hooker) and especially before the Ogden bridge was closed and torn down.
I vividly remember an evening on a cold February in 1997. I drove through the interesection of Hasted/Division and saw a burning car in flames on the northwest corner of the intersection, on the grounds of Cabrini. No cops, no fire trucks, no people other than the handful of cars driving through the intersection. who’d guess that 10 years later dinks would pay $450k for three bedroom condos just a few blocks away.
anon,
It takes a special kind of person to deny the reality of another’s day after day experience and say it’s “not true.”
In 97, 98 and 99 it wasn’t unusual for my car to be parked overnight in the area because I worked through the night a number of times, including on weekends. It was also common for employees to be in the office until 3 or 4 in the morning on extended deadlines.
We rarely saw a police patrol, because there was little need for them. For a variety of reasons, which people who understand urban crime patterns will easily grasp, Cabrini residents committed their crimes in other areas.
You can ask any of my dozens of employees whether they ever gave a moment’s thought to Cabrini or experienced its not-so-near presence in any way whatsoever. The answer will be no, but somehow I don’t think that will affect your opinion of what’s true and what isn’t.
I know Halsted / Willow well also from earlier days. I renovated 1868, 1870 and 1900 Halsted in 1978 – 1981, and lived at 1868 Halsted in 1986 and 1987. Walked everywhere any time with my then pre-school kids, who learned to swim at the New City YMCA on Halsted, with kids from Cabrini. Owned and rehabbed other properties in the immediate area – one in the 1900 block of Howe, which was on the “crime path” from Cabrini.
I don’t know what’s driving your perceptions, but I can assure you it isn’t the reality of Cabrini’s influence on some areas.
homedelete,
I vividly remember half a dozen instances of driving along the Edens Expressway and seeing cars in flames. No cops, no fire trucks, no people other than the cars zipping by.
What’s your point?
JZ:
I posed one question for you, and you ducked it. I will repeat: Would you have left your car parked there over night in, say ‘93; or walked thru the area at night–unless you were looking for a hooker?
I’m not asking about 97-02, although there were issues then, too, notwithstanding the anecdotal experience of those in your office (as we all know (or should), data is **not** the plural of anecdote). I AM actively disputing your “before 97” statement, especially as you move more than 5 years prior to 97.
PS:
I also never said that YOU had any experiences with Cabrini-related issues, so I am not denying “your reality”; rather I am denying that “your reality” is the reality for *everyone*.
*Not saying this is everyone’s experience* My roommate at the time parked over there (Weed/Dayton) outside of an office he worked in between ’93 and ’97 five days a week from 3pm until midnight (and in many instances over-night). Walked to his car un-attended as well. I’ll have to ask him if he picked up any hookers (not disputing that claim at all). His car was never stolen by crackheads, or anyone else for that matter. Cabrini had an influence, but it wasn’t a “toxic perimeter’ that extended to the post’s subject property.
Cabrini is a non-issue now, and has been for a while. Nice location actually over by all of the converted Wards buildings. Easy expressway access, convenient to downtown, etc.
anon,
I didn’t duck your question. I answered it, but obliquely. Let me restate it a bit more explicitly.
Understand what the Halsted River Triangle area was at the time and where Cabrini stood in relation to it. Weed / Dayton was a world away from Cabrini and anyone from Cabrini would have had to traverse uninhabited turf to get there, with little prospect of finding anything or anyone worth robbing. People tend not to cross uninhabited stretches to commit crimes, which is why office / industrial corridors are often effective buffers against high-crime areas.
At the time in question I walked down Wells Street many a night, from 1500 North to 1100 North. That waa a far dicier stretch than Weed / Dayton and far more subject t0 Cabrini traffic and problems, and I was repeatedly hassled. Hey, I grew up in northern NJ, went to high school in Newark, and don’t let the streets bother me much.
Had I had a reason to walk Weed / Dayton during that period, at any time of the day or night, I wouldn’t have hesitated. Cabrini kids simply didn’t go there, before or since.
Hey I am in the real estate industry and I’ll tell you this is a great building however, the finishes are very standard! Your best bet is to buy from a seller looking for a quick sale – the developer is not really negotiating (unless maybe that will change over time?)…however, also understand too that a lot of units are going to be rented in here! Strong buildings have high owner occupancy over time!!
New retail alert…Construction underway NEW APPLE STORE…Triangle shaped lot right off the Clybourn “L” Stop with with Clybourn to the West Halsted to the South and North Avenue to the North. Construction is now getting underway as new fences are up, and a bulldozer is paving the land. I believe it was delayed because they were doing Phase 1 and maybe Phase 2 Environmental tests which is typical when you purchase land that was once a gas station (was an old BP).
Also, the NEW CITY RETAIL STRIP signs are up on the huge lot between Halsted and Clybourn where the old YMCA in colored bricks used to be. On Halsted there across from that site the new British School is open as well as REI sportswear and the Advocate Health Care is going in there as well.
LOTS of good solid retail coming to this area in and around Sono – whether it is Sono or not that you like, this pocket of retail is going to explode and that can’t only help the people who own residential around it.
PS across from Sono on Kingsbury is the new Wholefoods plaza – HUGE for the area as well.
People got to realize, while the market is tight and “Flippers” are losing – cause guess what they should lose – real estate is not a stock or commodity – its a LONG TERM, HOLD and investment that you DON’T invest 0% into…have you ever bought stock with NO MONEY DOWN!!? If you are thinking about getting into this market – you should NOW if you can and have 5-10% down. I predict this buyer window to close down very very soon – at least with in the year or two MAX.
Welcome back, forrealestate.
Vanessa thank you for your uplifting and positive opinion regarding the state of the market In fact I was so moved and convinced by your enthusiasm that I’m going to go sign a contract at SoNo today. I can do this. Vanessa researched this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubsd-tWYmZw
“I believe it was delayed because they were doing Phase 1 and maybe Phase 2 Environmental tests which is typical when you purchase land that was once a gas station (was an old BP).”
The sale closed in August 2007. It wasn’t a phase 1 or 2 assessment that held this up. It MAY have been remediation, as the gas tanks were out last fall (?? maybe in the spring?), but it’s more likely that there were construction financing issues.
Why would anyone think the buyer’s window will close within a year or two (unless perhaps their future commissions depend on it)? There is NO fundamental data whatsoever that would lend any credence to this.
The economy is bad and getting worse, housing is bad and getting worse. Loans are hard to get and only becoming harder to get. Previous real estate busts that were much smaller than this one took many years to recover from, with prices dropping steeply and then staying flat for a long time.
2 years from now may be a good time to buy, but the window will by no means be shut.
Also, if someone was stupid enough to let me buy stock with no money down, I would do it in a heartbeat.
In 1929 you could buy stock with only 10% down. The massive leverage in equities back then was what fueled that bubble and we all know what happened when that one popped. It was just a different asset class that brought us GD 2.0, but all the other similarities are definitely there.
The promotional photos for these units are really appealling, but if you look at the market data, they are priced way high for the location.
First, my friends, this is NOT Lincoln Park. Its coordinates are Wicker Park, or the realtor-created name of Clybourn Corridor.
Secondly, there are parking issues, and unresloved issues with the tower to-be next door. Issues that can and will effect your property value, as well as quality of life.
Thirdly, the asking price on the units released on MLS are in the $375K range. Given the economic climate, number of units on the market in the region, and valuations in that subset, the prices should be in the $265-$285K range.
Now I fully realize that realtors and those caught “in-contract” here want (read: need) prices to remain near the $375K range, but market conditions have changed, and I’m sorry for your loss.
Lastly, I laughed out loud when the promo suggested you would have a roughly $15,000 equity at close. If you believe this, you are a builders dream!
Hey,
My name is John and I’m a realtor. Whoa whoa, relax it’s gona be okay, I’m not going to try to suck your blood or steal all your money (just some of it)….
With all the banter out there it gets pretty frustrating being a hard working individual and having my “profession” become minimalized by people that don’t fully know what they are talking about. Point A would be stating that being a Realtor is NOT a profession. What is it then? Is it not a job? I’d argue that being a cab driver is a profession. Work is work people.
Mainly though, I don’t think a lot of you realize how educated some Realtors are. I am college educated from a fine university. Many of my colleagues graduated from schools like U of Michigan, U of Illinois-urbana-champaign, Wisconsin Madison, Boston College, and Vanderbilt. While the name of the game is sales, we are no dummies. We realize that if we get bad advice, guess what??? We don’t get repeat customers.
It’s very easy to bang out a quick sale then never see the client again, but you can’t argue that that would be a pretty stupid business move. It makes more sense to retain a client, and continue to have their business throughout their lifetime.
Successful realtors usually have at least 90 percent of their business from referrals. How do you get referrals? Hopefully by doing a good job for your clients.
I know if I give someone bad advice, that word will spread. I fear a bad reputation. Realtors already have a bad reputation so I am fighting an uphill battle. I do my due diligence, and I put everything into my job. I try to be informed with any advice I give, but ultimately I advice clients to review all the information available and make the best choice for them. I do not pressure them to buy, sell or whatever.
Do I want deals? Obviously….Do I want deals at the expense of screwing over my clients? Absolutely not.
It’s a shame that all of you are so cynical that you can’t tell the good ones from the bad ones…Merely, you just assume that they are all bad. Get a clue, do homework, interview a bunch of agents, test them, and I promise you, you will find a quality realtor.
Until then, stop hating so much! Thanks
is this site dedicated to 860 blackhawk building, i have been in the building trades my whole life, and have travelled extensively and have been in some quite nice homes, and i willhave to say that 860 W. blackhawk is top of the line, as far from a design perspective, very beautiful..
I think that if the financing situation was what it was a few years ago, with no income verification, than this building would have been sold out very, very fast, but its going to take a while, maybe 2 years..
“I think that if the financing situation was what it was a few years ago, with no income verification, than this building would have been sold out very, very fast, but its going to take a while, maybe 2 years.”
This is one of the best comments I’ve seen in awhile.
So, apparently, if we were to go back to everyone lying about how much money they made and not putting any money down, then the building would sell out.
The entire pricing structure was based on easy money.
Humpty Dumpty will not be put back together again.
ANY building could sell out with no-doc liar loans up to 120% of the (inflated appraisal) property value. That seems to be the type of market this building was built for; unfortunately for the developer that market ended while the construction was still ongoing. Selling this bubble development in a normal real estate market will be tough indeed. It won’t happen until the developer gets it through their head that a 1 bedroom units for $400,000 is NOT a steal.
Has anyone else noticed this building at night. It seems very dark to me. I thought, for some reason, that it had a lot of units sold. Maybe the windows are tinted or something?
Yeah you can’t even see this building at night, no lights on it at all! Its like a giant black hole in the sky. I know a dude that bought a place here (pre-construction obviously) in like 2004. I wonder if he was able to close.
I hope that there will be some units for lease, it truly is a magnificent piece of architecture. Thank you for the compliment Sabrina. I think it is going to set the pace of new structures to come to chicago, and the way we think about building, and we will begin to see little sonos all over chicago in the future..
Actually i believe the building will sell out regardless, the market is huge in chicago and the developer will find 200 people that believe in this building, they just have to be in great shape.
DP:
I think this building has some nice features and great views (for those units facing the downtown.)
They will certainly find buyers but it’s all about pricing right now.
Are you a realtor Sabrina? Email me overdoz@sbcglobal.net
Nope. Not a realtor. I’m not connected to the real estate industry in any way- except through Crib Chatter, of course.
Man-a-live! I want one to live in the SoNo fosho! I toured it a few weeks ago and absolutely the only downside that I saw was a bland bathroom. I have near 800 credit. If only they would take 300k for the 905sft. 1bed/1ba and include 1 car parking I’m in like flin baby!
I went in the building today and the views were AMAZING! From talking to a sales agent there, it sounds like i might be able to get a high floor 1BR with garage parking for just a little over $300k. The price per square foot seems to be less than the majority of all the re-sale units in other buildings in that area. Is there something bad that I am missing here??? It seems like a really good deal right now. If I am an idiot, please inform me.