Four Months Later and Reduced Again: Terrace Unit at 1255 N. State Parkway
We’ve chattered about this terrace unit in the Churchill, at 1255 N. State Parkway, in the Gold Coast several times over the past few years.
We watched it sell in November 2007 and then come back on the market again.
See our most recent chatter and pictures here.
It’s been reduced another $15,900.
It’s also now listed $31,500 under the 2007 purchase price.
The unit is a 1000-square foot one bedroom with not only a private terrace but also a small balcony. The bathroom has been completely renovated with a marble shower and heated floors.
Johnnye Paige at Sudler Sotheby’s now has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #2J: 1 bedroom, 1 bath, 1000 square feet
- Sold in May 1988 for $99,000
- Sold in January 1995 for $91,500
- Sold in November 1998 for $174,000
- Sold in March 2001 for $240,000
- Sold in January 2004 for $278,000
- Sold in November 2007 for $330,500
- Was listed in August 2008 for $360,000
- Reduced
- Was listed in March 2009 for $314,900
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $299,000
- Assessments have also changed since the last time we chattered: now $911 a month (were $861 a month). It includes everything except the phone.
- Taxes of $3,597
- No central air- window units
- No w/d in the unit
- No parking
- 12×4 private terrace
- Balcony
- Bedroom: 16×12
Hi,
Do those taxes include property taxes? I don’t think so. A bit misleading Sabrina
Getting close. I think all we need now is the price adjustment for the incredibly high assessments. I would guess $60-90K lower although it wouldn’t shock me if someone steps up in the mid $200s.
I don’t get why Gold Coast assessments are so high — out of line with similarly priced units everywhere (e.g., River North assessments tend to be 1/2 or less of what they’d be on an identical size & price unit a little bit east).
“Do those taxes include property taxes? I don’t think so. A bit misleading Sabrina”
The post doesn’t say this is a co-op building. Therefore the assessment doesn’t include the taxes (which I have listed out separately.)
I don’t see how this is “misleading” in the least. The assessment includes everything except your phone.
more fancy doorman and expensive upkeep for a vintage building (old).
A $1000 assessment is the cost of living in a pre-war with a doorman in the Gold Coast.
If you can’t afford it, move to Uptown! :-/
“The assessment includes everything except your phone.”
Does it really include electricity, too?
I know the listing says that, but that could be one reason for higher assessments–if one doesn’t directly feel the pain of running your window a/c 24/7 from May to October and leaving your two plasma tvs year-round, you know there are more than a couple of residents who do so.
paulj, that “cost of living in a pre-war with a doorman in the Gold Coast” is dropping every day in spite of the high assessments.
With those assessements, i’m guessing $225K. The realtor should throw in some paintings or something. The intensely whitewashed walls made me squint. seriously.
Wont sell until those assessments come way down. Especially the $60ish hike in costs. Why did it go up? How often does it go up, etc.
a, if you are going to bother the seller with those questions you will lose out on this deal. Best to go with a clean contract at “$1,000 over the highest offer up to 110% of list price,” or you might miss out.
a, oops, it’s 2009 – not 2005. Please disregard my last post.
The whole history of the Great Housing Bubble of the 21st Century is encapsulated in the sales history of this apartment.
Was it really worth 90% more in 1998 than it was in 1995? Or 40% more in 2008 than in 2004?
Was ANY of the appreciation after 2001 justified by underlying neighborhood fundamentals? I mean, even given that this is just about the finest neighborhood in the Midwest, there is still not enough support in the form of high income buyers to justify the current prices in this area. We’re discovering now that there was at least as much Fantasy Financing in upper bracket neighborhoods as there was in low and middle bracket properties, if not more. In fact, the Alt-A wave that is about to wash over us, as evidenced by April’s record NOD filings, is comprised mostly of mortgages for upper-middle to upper bracket properties. Meanwhile, the FIRE economy, which probably is the industry supplying most of the high-paying jobs in Chicago, is contracting rapidly and many high-salary jobs are being cut.
It is going to be very difficult for us all to realize that this country is undergoing a massive shift in fundamentals and the life is not going to be the same for any of us, as it has been for the past 20 years or so. The days of automatic house appreciation, even in upper bracket areas, are over, most likely forever.
Having said this, I’ll say that this is a beautiful apartment, and there are many good reasons why the assessments are steeply higher than for comparable properties. I would want to see a budget breakdown if I were a buyer, of course. But if the association is putting a large % of the assessment into the repair reserve,includes heat, and the level of service is very high (24 hour doorman, concierge, etc.)then it is probably justified, and it’s better than an assessment that is kept unrealistically low. THAT will result in a massive bill that could be many digits long for deferred maintenance, as happened with the Edgewater Beach Co-op.
‘paulj, that “cost of living in a pre-war with a doorman in the Gold Coast” is dropping every day in spite of the high assessments.
I don’t know what you mean “in spite of” the high assessments. The price should be lower if the assessments are higher.
[Removed by the Editor]
‘a, oops, it’s 2009 – not 2005. Please disregard my last post.’
Sabrina, can you install a block button so we can disregard all of G’s posts?
[Removed by the Editor]
“Was it really worth 90% more in 1998 than it was in 1995? Or 40% more in 2008 than in 2004?”
A lot depends on timing of and amoutn of updates/upgrades completed, but obviously the general answer is “no” and the specific answer re ’04–>’08 is that it didn’t (and hasn’t) sold, so *clearly* it wasn’t worth 40% more *and* listing prices don’t mean anything.
Using CPI*, the ’95 bottom(-ish) of the market price would be $128,400 now. Give them (too much, probably) credit for the reno, one should expect the next bottom price to be under $200k. Not that we’re there yet, but if (when) mortgage rates return to Jan-95 rates (when 30-yr FRM were over 9% and 1-yr ARMs were over 6.75%), I wouldn’t be surprised. And that ignores the assessment issue.
*yeah, show me a reasonable alternative.
You’re a creepy fella, MADFLY.
“Not that we’re there yet, but if (when) mortgage rates return to Jan-95 rates (when 30-yr FRM were over 9% and 1-yr ARMs were over 6.75%)”
Haha yeah right. Like now that our government owns FNM, FRE and has allowed the Fed to balloon its balance sheet up to $2,000,000,000,000 we’re going to see high rates any time soon?
Even when the labor market finally turns, the Fed is gonna keep the funny money spicket open. Low interest rates are here for decades plus. Welcome to the new zombie economy.
We’re either going to see steeply higher interest rates soon OR we are going to see Weimar-Germany style inflation, with the total collapse of our currency and a Treasury default, if we do not do something to contain the Treasury debt and pay it down. And we had better do it quickly. We are running out of time. But instead, we are increasing it.
We have no idea what real economic misery is in this country, but we’ll find out, if that happens. It won’t do anything for property values, to say the least. But things like blankets, guns, and canned food will become very, very valuable, not to mention things like tents and campstoves and cold-weather clothing.
Too bad our leaders don’t read about Germany in the 20s, or any other economy in any other place where the gov’t has a 12:1 debt:income ratio. A ratio like that doesn’t work for individual humans, as we have seen from all the defaults of the past couple of years, and it doesn’t work for the government, either. No economy or government ever made it past this level of debt. It is non-survivable, no matter what our leaders, or the television financial pundits say.
We live in scary times, kids.
Bob, there are three theories of thought on this topic:
1) high inflation just around the corner;
2) high inflation will be coming but not for a couple of years;
3) deflationary forces are too powerful to overcome inflation for years to come.
I’m in camp 3 with you although I don’t know about ‘decades’. I once read a summary of a paper by the Federal Reserve that said it would do virtually anything, including basically helicoptering money into major cities to distribute money in an effort to increase liquidity and overcome the deflationary trap. However they also stated that policy concerns and politicians would likely overcome any helicoptored distributions;
The real question is will they be successful. Japan has tried various sorts of things to increase liquidity for 15 years now and all they’ve done is paved most of the country and buried themselves in debt. The Fed may think they are the smartest people in the room but quite clearly they are not.
“We’re either going to see steeply higher interest rates soon OR we are going to see Weimar-Germany style inflation”
How do you figure it is at all possible to have one without the other? In what circumstances would inflation be 1000%+ and interest rates under 10%? If that happened, I’d borrow every dollar I could, knowing that in a year I could pay it back with 11 cents.
“Germany in the 20s”
Was also being punished by its neighbors for WWI. It wasn’t just about government debt.
“the gov’t has a 12:1 debt:income ratio”
Where do you get your numbers? US Gov’t “income” is a bit over $2T. The public part of the debt (i.e., what counts) is $7.4T, as of yesterday.
“$7.4T, as of yesterday”
Oops. Typo. $7.174T.
The assmts are standard for a gc building. I am more worried about the over the top appreciation. One would think home buyers would take a few minutes to research previous sales prices.
“The Fed may think they are the smartest people in the room but quite clearly they are not.”
That’s not necessarily true; just b/c they are being “dumb” doesn’t mean that everyone else isn’t “dumber”. In a room full of baboons, the chimp is king.
According to some ‘real estate experts’ buyers should pay no attention to previous sales prices.
Raising taxes, refusal to cut spending or waste, patronage, hiring more government workers, increasing entitlements, borrowing and spending our way out of a recession. These are all going to cure our sick economy. Genius, absolutely genius.
“According to some ‘real estate experts’ buyers should pay no attention to previous sales prices.”
Yep. And, of course, that also means you should ignore what other people are paying *right now* for similar places. And offer these folks $175k.
“Raising taxes, refusal to cut spending or waste, patronage, hiring more government workers, increasing entitlements, borrowing and spending our way out of a recession.”
QED. Most of that isn’t the Fed, man.
Yeah I know its not the fed and as soon as I hit submit I had a feeling you were going to make that comment.
In a room, baboons would rip a chimp to pieces.
chimps are tough though..
http://chimpkillsman.ytmnd.com/
“Yep. And, of course, that also means you should ignore what other people are paying *right now* for similar places. And offer these folks $175k.”
Do you mean *right now* or do you mean *several months ago* in an environment where transaction volume has all but evaporated.
Because it seems to me a lot of people are pricing their properties not to move, but at the level some similar property might have sold for, or just even been listed at, *several months ago*.
Unemployment marches higher, those who really want to get out need to price below “the market”. Because “the market” is still largely at a standstill, especially wrt condos.
The funny thing once again, my ethnocentric friends, the US can not inflate shit. They closest they can come is to just devalue the dollar.
i.e, I am going to produce milk down here. I will gladly sell it for R$1. right now that is US$.50, A year from now I will still gladly sell for close to R$1. For the US to get milk prices higher all they can do is kill the dollar.
The Fed nor the US can control global prices. They can just destroy the currency. That would be game over.
“Do you mean *right now* or do you mean *several months ago* in an environment where transaction volume has all but evaporated.”
I meant post contents , just like HD.
I was jabbing at the “it doesn’t matter what the seller paid” crowd. For that to be a plausible “rule”, it has to apply across the board. Of course, the “it doesn’t matter what the seller paid” crowd only has one unbreakable rule–whatever gets the most houses sold.
The plug is being pulled, people wrongly think China is buying commodities in expectation of a recovery. ROFLMAO. They are like me, they are buying commodities as a store of wealth, because they don’t want more dollars!!
Ze, the US doesn’t have a monopoly on stupid. Brazil investing in ‘green’ tech that has already proven not to be carbon neutral. And destroying the rain forest at the same time, its a 2fer like bush’s war in Iraq.
Given that the US is one of the largest milk producers, it will set prices rather than other countries. Moreover, milk is a bifurcated market with it either being fresh consumption or is secondary product cheese, powered milk, etc. The secondary market being the one most likely to feel price/production pressure from other markets.
It like comparing a rundown 2-flat or condo with the rest of the market. You really can’t too many confounding variables.
No W/D?
No parking?
Filthy, yappy animals of all sizes and types allowed?
For a $900+ assessment?
Forget it!
if countries don’t want dollar thats fine for them, they’ll get less dollars in return, and on their investments as well
revassal.. that was not my point. pick any commodity you want. my point is they can’t raise global prices.
As for green tech down here it is more the benefit of endless summer and the ability to produce massive amounts of sugar cane. Probably saved this country.
Truth is i think we are about to run on SPX 875 for a test and probably see quite a bit of “flight to safety” dollar strength short term. But regardless countries like this have lived through 3,000% inflation, they know what it looks like to have a shitty position. They have seen this movie before and they know the US now looks like the opening act.
you are my point vassal… 5% of global population and certain you are indispensable. I’m sure they felt that way in Rome, France, Spain, Britain… The point is the balance sheet looks like hell.
“you are my point vassal… 5% of global population and certain you are indispensable.”
If not for us, who would have bought all the crap China produced in the last 20 years? And who would pay Indians to not provide answers on the phone? And who would al qaeda threaten to blow up?
Absolutely we’re indispensible.
anon(tfo)… and who would not pay them for all that 🙂
That was the other one i laugh about, when people say China has the US by the nutsack. They got paper..we actually got stuff. You only get to pull that trick once.
Man do I hope homedelete is wrong about #3 (deflation), I’m placing my bet on #2 (inflation).
Maybe they will not be able to stop deflation but you just know they are going to try like hell.
“That was the other one i laugh about, when people say China has the US by the nutsack. They got paper..we actually got stuff. You only get to pull that trick once.”
It’s the old saw–if you owe your bank a hundred pounds, you have a problem, if you owe them a million pounds, they have a problem. In this case, we both have problems.
once we legalize illegal drugs (mainly weed) we’ll own that market too. That will help current account alot, we kick the oil habit (at least the foreign 60%), we’ll do quite fine. Too bad it took 30-40 years to get to this point.
why don’t you rail against the Chinese they will have to figure on getting a trillion from a dead corpse, the way your talking about it. Same with Japan $700B.
revassal.. if the legalization of weed is what comes out of this crisis.. it was worth it 🙂
Oh btw… Seriously, One thing i thought of (baked of course) if it’s legal how do you make money on something that drops in price 90% and can be grown on your terrace for free?
Revassal.. I agree with you completely. They won’t get shit!
My point is they won’t let it happen a second time!
yeah try importing it from another country the US might be stupid but doubt we’d legalize importation, that would be really stupid.
Sales Tax
Well I’d assume if prices drop 90%, transactional volume would make up some, esp. if we grant more tourist visas. Growing it in the South would be easier, in the North it takes some energy, except for summer cycle.
Differ consumption/increased DI
With prices down, people will be able to spend/save more money, usually, extra DI goes to(savings, but if spent) services which for the most part is still in country, increases the V of money which will help with inflation, by increase output instead of price levels.
The US already grows a bunch, you tell me if it is worth it (as a result of this fiasco), usually never is, but have to take progress and make some more.
Ze, I may not speak for the whole of pot smokers, but if I had the choice between running to the corner store to buy a pack full of Marlboro Weed or had to take a class in horticulture and tend to a plant, I’m picking the corner store.
so many economists here! weird since in my graduating class there were only about 20 of us out of 5,000 grads.
True China won’t let it happen(to a point), but hopefully we won’t buy too much of their crap as well.
Brad.. I am not an economist. I do not like economists.
“so many economists here! weird since in my graduating class there were only about 20 of us out of 5,000 grads.”
Largest major in my graduating class of ~1600. Not including me, tho.
We traded paper for lead contaminated toxic toys and other various useless trinkets of no real value. It was like two thieves trying to screw each other and nobody won.
well to summarize, the US is not screwed, we just have a lot of work to do. There will be pain, that what the recession is, we’ll get out of it, provided people use their heads and don’t develop new ponzi schemes. Real work and products for real value.
“I’m picking the corner store.”
Chances are it would be so heavily taxed that the current black market for it would just become a big grey market. Prices would fall across the board (if its legal to buy that means the supply chain will become quasi-legitimized and no/little enforcement action against the plant) and only idiots would still buy the taxed version.
Would save a bunch on the incarceration/court ordered aspect, however legalization definitely wouldn’t be the municipal revenue cow that some wish for/envision.
revassal.. I concede, it’s a tricky plant, and you not knowing what you are doing would leave your males too long on your terrace thus seeding my females. OK, ya got me, Marlboro green for me too!
One on one, a chimp easily tears up a baboon.
Chimps regularly hunt baboons.
So a chimp versus a room of baboons, is not necessarily a one way slaughter.
People, anything more to say about the unit as opposed to pontificating about pot and the economy?
oops.. that was to JN…
And you have no idea how great the product selection in the US for the American shopper is compared to the rest of the world. Shopping in the US is awesome! Down here you can’t buy 1/10th the stuff and it’s also always expensive crappy shit that you can buy. Of course the trade off is it’s 90% made here and so balance of trade issues are kept in line.
ok.. dollface.. no more talking about the economy.. just pot 🙂
Yes Dollface,
Much like your River North studio, nobody wants to buy this unit these days anywhere close to its asking price.
“only idiots would still buy the taxed version.”
Do “only idiots” buy Marlboros with tax stamps attached? Don’t think so.
Deflation for real estate prices and wages.
Inflation for commodities.
Devaluation of dollar. Brazil/Russia/India/China (BRIC) seriously talking about alternate currency for world trade.
“People, anything more to say about the unit as opposed to pontificating about pot and the economy?”
Seems played out, unless you have something to contribute, Dollface.
No? Just complaints about what others are or aren’t posting? Brilliant!
This country has federal tax revenues of about a trillion dollars, probably due to drop, due to the condition of the economy.. unless the Feds can print enough money for us to inflate our way out our debt, which our leaders are earnestly trying to do.
At some point the interest rates will have to be allowed to rise to reflect the true risk of lending, and to reflect the degradation of the currency.
As for the United States being able to hold up everyone else at gunpoint for milk and wheat, I have this to say:
Anybody can produce milk, and almost anybody can produce wheat.
NOT everybody can produce OIL, and the United States is dependent upon imports for 70% of its supply. Worse, oil is in terminal decline.
Oil is the true lifeblood of the economy. We need it for every system and process we have. We need it for transportation, for manufacturing everything from synthetic fabrics to pipe to vaccines.As it is, the discoveries get smaller every year while more “third world” countries are demanding more of it.
What will happen to us the day oil is no longer denominated in the dollar? How much wheat and milk and other agricultural exports will it take to buy the oil we need here?
“No? Just complaints about what others are or aren’t posting? Brilliant!”
Hey cut her some slack. She is _stuck in a studio_. I live in a studio myself, lucky for me, I am not _stuck in it_. I can get out and move to a bigger domicile by either paying the lease breakage fee ($400 security deposit), free by finding someone to assume my lease, or next year at lease renewal time. I love the flexibility that renting affords me.
The only thing worse than living in a studio I suppose is living in a studio involuntarily. It does give me a small comfort knowing that I _could_ move at almost any time I choose. I have a feeling Dollface drank the RE Kool-Aid and doesn’t have such flexibility these days with regard to her living situation.
can’t eat oil; not oll the bric countries want to move away from the US, India will want to leverage the US for nuclear and military tech. The rest of them will become the new axis of evil; definitely Russia is on the way.
laura.. nowadays you can’t produce milk or grains w/o oil either.
revassal.. Brasil.. axis of evil??? you need to get out more.
well I referencing more of Russia submergence, with China an already established authoritarian regime. The rest of the comment was more about monetary policy (away from dollar shift than political).
Too much baggage being brought into the crib.
Take a pill ya’ll.
“This country has federal tax revenues of about a trillion dollars”
Seriously? Do two seconds of internet research. Federal tax revenue is over $2T. It hasn’t been under $1T (2008 dollars) since the FORD Administration.
And **even if** only $1T, 7:1 is a long way from 12:1.
“Brasil.. axis of evil??? you need to get out more.”
well, if vassel is a modern day Puritan, it makes a certain amount of sense, no?
Ze, that’s what I forgot to include, the fact that we really and truly do EAT oil.
We’re totally dependent upon fossil-fuel based nitrogen fertilizers that we need to produce the food for 300 million plus people, as well as buyers from abroad.
In the absence of those fuels, we will have to revert to “organic” farming, which means that two thirds of the population here would be very hungry.
“We’re totally dependent upon fossil-fuel based nitrogen fertilizers that we need to produce the food for 300 million plus people, as well as buyers from abroad.
In the absence of those fuels, we will have to revert to “organic” farming, which means that two thirds of the population here would be very hungry.”
Based on what? The fertilizers are necessary for factory farming; the absence of such would require a great deal more labor devoted to agricultural production and a concomitant reduction in living standards, but the disappearance of petro-fertilizer would have a much greater impact on ethanol production and factory meat production than the rest of agriculure.
Given that Americans could “suffer” a 20%+ reduction in caloric intake and still probably be the most overfed nation on earth gives lie to your scenario.
I find it amusing hows there are simultaneous pushes to get rid of tobacco and legalize pot.
revassal.. so you believe a creditor nation is not entitled to dictate terms of its lending and that the borrower should so long as that borrower is the USA?
and (tfo) yes.. if you are a puritan this is hedonism.
For anyone else wondering how to stop wasting tax money, and turn a profit on Marlboro “greens”
Case study on Portugal’s decriminilizaion of ALL drugs: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization
Tax revenue via just CALI (1 state, not including KY’s production):
California’s marijuana crop is estimated at $14 billion annually. Ammiano noted that is almost twice the combined value of vegetables and grapes, the state’s second and third most-valuable crops. He estimated passage of his pot legalization proposal could generate more than $1.3 billion in much-needed revenue for state coffers.
http://cbs5.com/local/california.legalize.pot.2.941827.html
Hey Sabrina and the “G” –
read this http://www.thechicago77.com/2009/07/case-shiller-vs-mls-%E2%80%94-some-very-interesting-data-on-chicago-real-estate-market/
Looks like now Forbes, WSJ, and this article all agree with me.
“Hey Sabrina and the “G” –
read this ”
Putting that worthless “data” out there is totally beneath you, Stevo. It’s comparing apples (houses and condos sold in ’08) to oranges (houses and condos sold in ’09). You’re one who trumpets unit-mix and similar (quite valid) distinctions and then you throw this non-sense into the discussion. Absurd.
I’m embarrassed for you, dude.
Stop the presses! SHill found an article written by a realtor that agrees with him. 6 years in the RE industry certainly gives her the experience to mash apples and oranges together.
Sales volume is clearly down yoy.
Prices are up in LP because you are averaging fewer sales in a month and one sale can easily skew the data. The author clearly is looking at things through rose coloured lenses or doesn’t understand statistics or perhaps both. Perhaps the author should be asking more relevant questions about the backlog of sales, the average discount to list price, etc.
What about Forbes and the WSJ? Worthless as well?
Forbes- Never as good since daddy died. Well written so it gets 6/10
WSJ- Two words… Rupert Murdoch. Still good for day old info but that’s about it. 2/10
Stevo.. get a Bloomberg turret, or borrow your 8 year olds. BTW still waiting for what’s higher priced since you threw that inflation in my face. Or you could just appologize and say you were wrong. But that would take some humility.
Wow, you guys are totally, without question, exhausting!
These same ‘debates’ go on over and over again and nothing really gets settled nor does any viable information come out of it.
Say you were a first time buyer and not really sure how to go about buying a home. Sure, you have the basics down , but some other facts are a bit cloudy. Put yourself in their shoes… would you gain any relevant information to assist you in entering the market with the purchase of your first home. Or as an experienced home owner/investor, what can you contribute that would be of value to others regardless of their position in this process. No real information comes out of these (most often) juvenile back and forths?
I am not trying to being difficult with any one poster, nor am I questioning anyones intelligence…there are some very informed posters here who could be of tremendous help to others, but that intelligence and experience is wasted when these tit for tats begin. A new article starts most of the time on a good note, then they just go totally off the topic. Half way through, the property in question is blown off as everyone vies for the top spot…who is the brightest, who is the richest, who can predict for certain what is going to happen to the RE market in the future, who can piss the furthest for the longest.
That said, I still look forward to and read each article for a glimpse of what that particular property offers for the money. And also for the sheer entertainment provided by seeing everyone pulling the chair out from the previous poster. It would be funny if we were all HS/early college kids, but as somewhat intelligent adults….not so much.
Just my opinion. I can’t change the posting method nor do I really want to. Each argument just may contain info, but at some point it just gets deluted to a useless point…and I too am guilty of contrubuting towards the downward spiral of some threads. I am not degrading myself, anyone or their opinions, just saying it could be a more productive and valuable source of information for all involved with a few changes.
Sabrina, could you please expand your forum so you can run articles about properties you deem valuable to your readers in addition to some type of open forum section broken down by subject so everyone can contribute, get their points across and the average reader seeking a property to buy can get better info and be on their way. I am sure you browse StreetEasy about NYC properties on occasion. There you can get specific information about properties and you can also get detailed info from posters about a variety of subjects.
I often see posters, usually new ones, come on CC and ask a RE related question and they never get an answer. Instead of focusing on their question, the pissing contest continues and nothing comes out of it.
As much as I really like this forum, these daily repetitious arguments get so tiring! Anyway, Thanks for providing this forum for all of us to browse RE that you think would be of interest to us. But it can be so much more useful to those who are serious about buying/selling/renting.
Just sayin…
Westloop.. too long and off topic.. didn’t read 🙂
Ze-Basically what he is asking, is to keep a real estate blog exactly what it is…a real estate blog. I come on here to get information not to listen to people compare their pretend lives to others’ real lives nor to listen to grown adults be condescending and vulgar just because they can hide behind a screename Not you specifically.
+1 for a forum
Maybe Westloopelo should start his own forum. He can talk about a variety of issues including the art of not using paragraphs, the differences between Chicago and NYC RE markets (and how NYC is so superior) and writing long rants that nobody with a super long attention span can half follow.
“What about Forbes and the WSJ? Worthless as well?”
Well: Forbes just said that Lincoln Park would see price declines similar to the rest of the city- so the 2% decline (currently) will decline 15% (or more- depending on where the city ends up.)
WSJ just recently had an article about people staying in the city and not being able to move to the burbs (or not wanting to.) It gave an example of a buyer who just bought in Lakeview instead of buying a 4 bedroom in the suburbs (price was not mentioned nor was the suburb they were thinking of moving to.)
It also said people are trapped in their properties in the city and that could be why suburban sales have slowed. It also gave stats from Lake Forest sales from the past 2 years showing that sales have plunged year over year.
Why does this support anything about prices staying elevated in LP? I don’t know. Doesn’t seem to to me.
The WSJ has good coverage of the housing market, actually.
Lauren.. if you have a specific RE question, particularly financial, i will always be glad to help.
“The WSJ has good coverage of the housing market, actually”
I agree. The WSJ’s coverage of RE I actually find unbiased and rather on point. Its a welcome relief from the propaganda spouted by many who have vested interests in seeing RE maintain lofty valuations or crash in price.
I’m of course in the crash in price camp, but I try not to let my personal preferences influence my view of the market.
Thanks Lauren for condensing my long winded post into a few words as I do believe it worked…on Bob at least. Sabrina didn’t seem to care to address it, perhaps because of the length of the post? Perhaps not….
“Maybe Westloopelo should start his own forum. He can talk about a variety of issues including the art of not using paragraphs, the differences between Chicago and NYC RE markets (and how NYC is so superior) and writing long rants that nobody with a super long attention span can half follow.”
And…I thank you Bob for providing yet another stellar example of why I think Sabrina might want to expand her forum. Posts like this do nothing in allowing new posters, or anyone actually, to gain more insight into the RE world.
Always can count on you for relevant information can’t we?
“but I try not to let my personal preferences influence my view of the market.”
Wow, really? Are you serious? All of your posts are biased based on your own personal preferences. I do see some rather good information from you, but your reluctance to actually invest in a home of your own clouds all of your posts in a negative way. You constantly mock all properties you personally cannot afford and degrade the mentality of those who do own their own homes. Way off base with that last sentence!
Regarding why LP prices do not seem to be affected in the same manner the rest of Chicago has. My thoughts:
I think it is similar to the way properties in NYC’s UES seems to always be able, even in great depression, to remain stable. Chicago’s RE buying public considers LP to be THE hot spot in the city in which to invest and to live. Just as in the UES, there is always going to be one area of the city that will remain unchanged regardless of what is happening all around it.
Just like other major cities…Coconut Grove in Miami, Cherry Creek in Denver, Buckhead in Atlanta, and on and on. These areas are the untouuchable and exclusive nests for the wealthy. The heirarchy of society allows them to maintain their status regardless of any factors that should bring them down to the point that us mere mortal inhabit.
Residents of these areas have traditionally have always considered themselves and have been considered by the rest of society to be ‘golden’ and above reproach. Do they lose money just as the rest of their city does? Of course they do, but in the effort to keep them on their golden pedestal and far above all other classes, their domain must appear to remain unaffected by all outside influences. At least on paper anyway.
I view it as a monster that was created when each city was established. I see it as the end result of society feeling the need to define itself and others by how much money we have, their ancestory and the other factors that have always been in play to define levels of society.
The air is different up there and they will not suffer as much as the rest of society. Or maybe they just create that illusion…and we all buy into it by not allowing prices to fall. Do we all want to be placed in classes according to our asset sheets? Obviously we do.
I, for one, thank Westloop for his post (my attention span allowed me to finish reading it). According to some of the more snarky people here, I can’t even comment on a post without mean spirited comments about how shortsighted I have been about buying a studio and then having a child. I only wish my life were as well planned out as others’. And I appear to have lost all credibility as a posted because I purchased into a doorman building with high assessments.
I’m just living, people. I originally came to this website to learn about new areas and get a sense of what is a good/fair price for properties in areas I was unfamiliar with.
Dollface, bob likes you! that’s why he’s picking on you. dont you remember elementary school? who is your daughter going to go to for advice when the same thing happens to her in 2nd grade.
Why is this thread starting to feel like an intervention?
Dollface,
You came here with some sort of entitlement attitude that this blog should be more heavily moderated and stay on subject when you complained about the discussion veering off course.
Did it ever occur to you that the economy and the housing market are closely related? Did it ever occur to you to use the scroll button to merely scroll past posts you deemed of no value?
This isn’t our blog and I think its being a little facetious of you (and to a lesser degree WLEO, as he ASKED politely) to demand some sort of quality of service from an internet blog that isn’t yours (or mine). I am sorry if I hurt your feelings with a personal attack.
revassal.. timely and for you…
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2009-07/04/content_8377768.htm
from both a diversification and return on investment standpoint it’s so absurdly obvious.
Let’s all pay tribute to HD today. His favorite political star died today. I am sorry HD
Hey at least I’m not a used home salesman!
steve mcnair?
ignore the trolls folks
Lincoln Parks inventory –
June 2007 – 5.3 months
June 2008 – 5.6 months
June 2009 – 6.1 months
Stable as they come…
Lincoln Park contracts written –
June 2007 – 134 contracts at $435k (median)
June 2008 – 116 contracts at $434k (median)
June 2009 – 111 contracts at $475k (median)
Lincoln Park inventory
June 2007 – 943 units on the market at $445k (median)
June 2008 – 869 units on the market at $450k (median)
June 2009 – 901 units on the market at $450k (median)
Lincoln Park Sold
June 2007 – 186 units sold at $425k (median)
June 2008 – 110 units sold at $418k (median)
June 2009 – 98 units sold at $413k (median)
Sabrina… it is crashing! LOL 😉
Sorry Ze. I agree with you about inflation.
I am an agent in Lincoln Park. Heitman is correct (although I do not want to agree with him) about the Lincoln Park market. It is basically flat with some people still profiting and some losing their shirt. The flawed properties with undesirable characteristics once overlooked, are sitting on the market and taking a hit before selling. The well built properties in desirable locations are still fetching a healthy premium. Buyers are looking to utility a bit more than in the past which is hurting the McMansion group and those properties with awkard layouts.
Lincoln Park is flat +/- 5% over the past 2 years. Inventories are down for below $1 million properties and market times are around 4 -5 months. You would have to argue that if you were to own a place in the city of Chicago, Lincoln Park is where the value has held.
Just my two cents…
Number of “contracts” signed is meaningless. I don’t know why you keep including that statistic Steve.
The number actually “sold” in a given month is interesting.
Price never holds up when sales plunge. That’s what we’re seeing. No demand means lower prices.
We also don’t know what the “sold” listings you provide are for Steve (1 bedrooms, 2 bedrooms, all condos, condos AND single family homes). So, it’s impossible to tell much from the data (except that sales are plunging.)
I also find it kind of amusing that everyone is obsessed with Lincoln Park on Crib Chatter when it is a very small subset of the rest of the city and the entire Chicago real estate market. If some sellers are “losing their shirts” in LP- what’s happening in Andersonville, Lincoln Square, Edgewater, Bucktown, Wicker Park?
The better deals will certainly be in those neighborhoods.
Hi Sabrina – Contract written close in LP. Please explain 1999 – 2003 if lower sales equates lower prices.
I am obsessed with Lincoln Park because that is where I work and where I live. This is also the area I know and I have defended it as being stable compared to other areas.
You are the one saying LP is trading at 2003 levels and not me. I have always said that it is stable.
Happy 4th everybody.
Steve will defend his turf like the drug dealers and crack fiends defend their products. It’s his income he will be blind, he needs it.
Now to talk about the property,
if HD/G are right it will sell around 180K too much appreciation right? so 177K. new bathroom, 190K?
# Sold in November 1998 for $174,000
# Sold in March 2001 for $240,000
# Sold in January 2004 for $278,000
For steve to be right it would have to sell around list; at least above, 285K. New bathroom 300, 325K right?
For my educated guess, no comp research cause I don’t want to buy it, I would say if you can get it for around 240K your not doing bad at all. Great location. maybe for a trust fund baby? Of course the buyer wont sweat a 1K assmt. They would mind paying 265K just to get the negotiations over with.
Ze — they reduce their holdings by about 4Bil (out of 750Bil+) not much, 50B for IMF who biggest donor/supporter is the US. (no need 4 a discussion on US Hegemony) So poor countries can buy Chinese trash. suffice to say if we(the US) can reduce Chinese consumption by around 5Bil (imports 377B yr) a month and reduce oil consumption by 1Bil, 10 percent, if not 5% a week (9.5B/week in US) the country will be on the whole a lot healthier than many others, including and esp. the euro zone banking system. 5% isn’t much. A high consumption tax on gas/(energy in general), funneled into mass-transit and green energy-(carbon neutral/ carbon negative). So 5% for both = 3.5Bil / month not a bad cash flow. (about 6% of current account deficit) No it doesn’t make up for $1T deficits. nor 2T fed balance sheet. But paper does ;-).
As far as who taking the hits, banks, ultimately taxpayers. Some normal people are taking hits, but if you don’t have to, you should unless you did some homework when you bought and you should be fine, in nearly any market. (I think this one is insane, but I haven’t live through many downturns.) otherwise how to people like westloop make any money.
the last paragraph should have read something like, some people are taking hits, most aren’t even bothering selling, if you need to, your hit shouldn’t be that bad provided you did some homework, and made an assumption that others in your shoes would look at the home u purchased with the same need and wants as you did when buying so they will see the value in what you paid.
Now of course, there was a period of time, where the expectation were not normal, but some will argue it doesn’t apply everywhere, and possible some places/some properties will be spared and/or make money, or how can people make any money at all in real estate, if it were a zero sum game?
Bottom line, the market corrected if it didn’t we wouldn’t be talking about this. There is a lost of RE wealth, it just most of it will end up as paper losses rather than an actual loss. With the actual losses, many will gain from those as it has been done in the past.
“if HD/G are right it will sell around 180K too much appreciation right? so 177K. new bathroom, 190K?”
revassal, you will have to point to where I said that. I rarely put a specific estimate on a specific property due to the knife catching we will see all the way to the bottom. The shills have to eat, right?
I never said it will sell for $180k today, I said that prices are heading back to nominal 1998 or 1999 pricing. So yes, $190k sounds fair but we’re not at 1999 price yet, in fact we’re nowhere near 1999; the CS puts us somewhere in 2002 for condos and the rate of decline has slowed considerably, which means it’s going to take a few years to retreat to $180k. Let’s revisit this building in 2011 or the summer of 2012 and see what the comps are. I bet they’re lower than they are now and closer to nominal 1998 or 1999 pricing than anyone imagined.
How come the SHill’s “inventory” stats above don’t relate to the listing and sales data he put up in the very next post?
How come the SHill claims that “Contract written close in LP (sic)” when he had the contract data from the spring when he incorrectly predicted both May and June 2009 LP condo/TH sales would exceed those in 2008? How could he get that wrong?
How come the SHill proclaims victory over all with “LP is more stable so far” when nobody argues that point?
You decide.
not trying to put word in anybody’s mouth just saying there is a lot of room between the positions(a summary). I contend there might be a 3 or 4th way to explain the current environment and each property cannot be faced with the same assessment as the one preceded it.
But I do have to point out G’s comment that there will be
…knife catching we will see all the way to the bottom…
a protracted environment where houses always trade for lower value over time rather as unlikely, as steve’s paradigm; or the market will face a inverse effect, after such a period; similarly to the one happening after the bubble, which will look bubblelish. it just the market trying to reach equilibrium.
This is still listed for 295K.
There are now other 1 bedrooms listed for under 240K in the building