From $325,000 to $14,900 In Just 4 Years in Grand Boulevard: 4616 S. Vincennes
This bank owned 3-bedroom duplex down at 4616 S. Vincennes in the Grand Boulevard neighborhood on the South Side recently came on the market.
It last sold in December 2006 for $325,000.
The bank recently listed it for $14,900.
The unit has cherry hardwood floors on the main living level with carpet in the lower level duplex down.
From the pictures, it appears the bathroom and kitchen are intact. The kitchen has cherry cabinets, what looks like granite counter tops and black and stainless steel appliances.
The listing does say “complete repairs to make this gem shine!”
Before you ask “how is the neighborhood”- you should know that there is a newer construction single family home for sale almost right across the street.
That house at 4601 S. Vincennes has 6 bedrooms, 5 baths with a 3 car garage.
It has 150 square feet of his and hers closets, a 10-seat movie theater, a wine cellar, and a big rooftop deck with a hot tub.
Listed since December 2009, it has been reduced $400,000 to $1.5 million in that time.
Lateefah Neal at NTS Realty Group has the listing. See the pictures here.
4601 S. Vincennes: 6 bedrooms, 5 baths, 7832 square feet, 3 car garage
- Sold in May 2004 for $250,000 (the former house???)
- Originally listed in December 2009 for $1.9 million
- Reduced twice
- Currently listed for $1.5 million
- Taxes of $11,653
- Bedroom #1: 42×30 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 20×13 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 20×13 (second floor)
- Bedroom #4: 13×11 (third floor)
- Bedroom #5: 13×11 (third floor)
- Bedroom #6: 13×11 (third floor)
- Exercise room: 22×15
Given what the house across the street is listed for, is the 3-bedroom duplex down a deal for the neighborhood?
Linda O’Donnell at Re/Max Signature has the listing. See the pictures here.
4616 S. Vincennes #S1: 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, duplex down, no square footage listed
- Sold in December 2006 for $325,000
- Lis pendens foreclosure filed in August 2009
- Bank owned in August 2010
- Currently listed for $14,900
- Assessments of $307 a month
- Taxes of $4831
- Listing says no A/C – but it’s not very clear
- Also no mention of washer/dryer
- It says there is a parking space- not sure if it’s included or not
- Bedroom #1: 13×11 (main level)
- Bedroom #2: 16×11 (lower level)
- Bedroom #3: 16×11 (lower level)
OK – it is pretty obvious that there is something suspicious about the 2006 purchase…. that is amazing. Actually, more amazing is that someone actually built that bigger SFH in this neighborhood – what were they thinking?!!
Also, when this sells (along with many many other places in areas like this in Chicago) what do you think that is going to do to the published “average” prices or CSI? Properties like these falsely decrease these averages making it hard to interpret data. I wouldn’t/couldn’t live in this neighborhood if you PAID ME 15k or 325k – no way….
Is the exterior of the 4601 vincennes (1.5 mil house) made of cinderblock a.k.a. split face block? If it is, the tribune has a great article on how so many new walk up condos were made of this and how about half of them are having major damage from mold and structural deficencies. Is this the same stuff that either hd or groove or someone else keeps warning us about when we see listings of new “Crapbox condos”.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/realestate/newhomes/ct-mre-0220-home-front-inspection-20110211,0,4913601.column
Also, I am reading a great city-data forum when I started researching more about it. All I did to find it was google “split face block chicago”
Thank You for insight.
The $1.5 million home…. WTF?!
Regarding split face block…I always check to see when the association or homeonwer resealed it and how much it cost. If it’s old enough to have been resealed and they’re clueless then you need to move on. However, usually they know better (yeah, you need proof). The cost for a “standard” sized building is about $5k I’ve been told. So it just becomes a maintenance issue.
Gary is correct. Masonry is like everything else with a building, simply review if the current owners kept up with the maintenance. I’ve mentioned before that the CMU sealant process was relatively painless and the building now has a warranty against water penetration through those surfaces. Plus it’s an elastomeric paint which makes the building look nicer.
While caution is justifiable the level of fear mongering is quite high.
That said – the 1.5MM house doesn’t look like it was sealed based on the coloration of the sides. I’m not a tradesman so don’t let me hold up anyone’s purchase of the SFH.
“Actually, more amazing is that someone actually built that bigger SFH in this neighborhood – what were they thinking?!!”
There are mansions all up and down the streets in this area. It’s not called “Grand Boulevard” for nothing. The rich used to live in this neighborhood and they built huge homes to represent that lifestyle.
It is a bit more unusual to see newer construction of this size in the neighborhood however.
“Also, when this sells (along with many many other places in areas like this in Chicago) what do you think that is going to do to the published “average” prices or CSI? Properties like these falsely decrease these averages making it hard to interpret data.”
But Clio- if you want to look at the data that way- then you have to talk about how many of the monthly sales are also from this neighborhood (and others like it) because these foreclosures ARE selling in this neighborhood (one sold nearby a few months ago for under $10,000.)
Gary says that around 40% of sales are distressed (short sales/foreclosures)- wouldn’t that mean that most are in this (and other similar) neighborhoods?
That tells me that sales in the “prime” neighborhoods are even more depressed than the overall data is telling us. Low sales = lower prices (eventually.)
that place has got to be nasty for it to be so cheap
And yet more fun from NAR:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704476604576158452087956150.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_6
I’ll admit – never once did I check to see if the sales stats provided by NAR was based on a model or actual counting, as it just seemed much too easy to simply use MLS’s sales as an input. I’m not certain how this would have impacted my 2005 purchase decision but might have helped temper my boundless enthusiasm.
“Gary says that around 40% of sales are distressed (short sales/foreclosures)- wouldn’t that mean that most are in this (and other similar) neighborhoods?
That tells me that sales in the “prime” neighborhoods are even more depressed than the overall data is telling us. Low sales = lower prices (eventually.)”
Sabrina, are you suggesting that the price of this unit is going to affect the prices of units at the Palmolive or ELSD?
I would also worry about split-face block sealants: Anything like that on the surface would also keep moisture inside, potentially leading to mold problems. Aren’t masonry surfaces supposed to “breathe”?
New case shiller:
Chicago 117.86
New low.
On our way back to 1999.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjivDeA7Qu0
IDK if its the camera but i can see water damage and that looks to be painted.
but thats just a picture, it may not be the case.
The black smudge on the camera lens doesn’t make the pictures look any better… makes each room look a little dirtier that it is.
“New case shiller:
Chicago 117.86”
Of course – when you have sales like this, it is going to be low – but how does that affect the VAST majority (if not all) of people looking for houses/condos on this site? It doesn’t.
Actually more like 50% of recent sales have been distressed:
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-real-estate-getting-real/2011/02/chicago-home-sales-still-lagging-in-january.html
And the crazy thing is that the market is only going to get worse from here. Just when you think we’ve reached the bottom, that bottom drops out and sets a new low.
“Properties like these falsely decrease these averages making it hard to interpret data.”
CS is a bit more complex than a simple average, properties with extreme price differences are weighted less, so they don’t have as much of an impact.
“Just when you think we’ve reached the bottom, that bottom drops out and sets a new low”
Only in certain areas – and, believe it or not, these LOWS in these areas are going to push buyers to the nicer areas, thereby driving up prices in the better areas. Remember, in the early late 90s and early 2000s, people were venturing out into fringe areas (WP, Logan Square, SLOOP, west town, etc. of the city as well as the fringe suburbs (St. Charles, Sugar Grove, Oswego, etc.). People who want to buy will now only look in the established and tried-and-true areas which, in my opinion, may drive prices UP in these more sought after neighborhoods/suburbs.
Remember, in the early late 90s and early 2000s, people were venturing out into fringe areas (WP, Logan Square, SLOOP, west town, etc. of the city as well as the fringe suburbs (St. Charles, Sugar Grove, Oswego, etc.). People who want to buy will now only look in the established and tried-and-true areas which, in my opinion, may drive prices UP in these more sought after neighborhoods/suburbs.
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well Clio, if st Charles is a fringe neighborhood than you better lower the price on your farm since people are going after the more sought after neighborhoods
actually clio, a lowering tide sinks all boats
The concept that vastly dropping real estate prices in certain ‘fringe’ or ‘neutral’ areas will drive UP the prices in the expensive burbs isn’t impossible from a strictly economic standpoint, but it is unlikely;
as those people looking to buy in the ‘fringe’ suburbs aren’t going to avoid the ‘lows’ and make up for it by paying more to live in a high end suburb. People with oakbrook budgets weren’t looking at St. charles in the first place, and vice versa…
Just like in the city , someone looking at a 2/2 in the south loop is probably an entirely different buyer than someone looking in the gold coast..Just because the bottom fell out of the south loop does NOT mean that gold coast prices go up…as we’ve seen , so far it’s been the contrary.
“well Clio, if st Charles is a fringe neighborhood than you better lower the price on your farm since people are going after the more sought after neighborhoods”
I LOVE the spring market!!!!
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Saint-Charles/3N645-Ponderosa-Dr-60175/home/17970713
I looked at the duplexes in this building that were converted earlier and listed for $275k. They actually were nice places, I just didn’t like duplexes, especially with windows right on the sidewalk like this place. At that time this was also one of the shadier blocks in the area.
At $15k though, you could buy this with cash for less than a car and rent it for a decent amount.
The house across the street is GAUDY but it isn’t the only new construction single family home in the surrounding blocks…just the biggest. The $250k sale was probably for the land…it was all vacant land back in 2005/6
“I LOVE the spring market!!!!
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Saint-Charles/3N645-Ponderosa-Dr-60175/home/17970713”
That’s a pretty property. Hope the new buyer updates the kitchen though.
Yeah – they pretty much need to gut the whole place (it hasn’t been lived in for 4 years) – but they still got an awesome deal!
congrats clio
I LOVE the spring market!!!!
———-
if redfin is accurate you bought this place for 530k. If, if you don’t have any commission fees how much did you really make out ahead after having to pay property takes and not being able to invest in the market. Heck you might have even made money in the stock market even with the terrible market crash.
I just read an article today about how the NAR overstated home sale statistics during the boom years, per Corelogic. Not suprising, as this is consistent with the NAR’s mission – to keep membership high, and to maintain a monopoly with their commission structure. I’m sure membership has dropped a lot, and now they have their tail between their legs.
This property for $14,900 is sold as is? I don’t know about a duplex down in this type of neighborhood, unless I had bullet proof glass.
“Also, when this sells (along with many many other places in areas like this in Chicago) what do you think that is going to do to the published “average” prices or CSI?”
It obviously would affect average and median prices, but as an outlier or anomaly, it will be weighted extremely lightly and have a vastly reduced impact on CSI.
Re: the neighborhood, there are some middle-class folks who live around here, and of course there was the planned renaissance of 47th/King Drive (w TIF and all). It hasn’t exactly panned out, with the disaster of the theater/cultural center, and tough time for the businesses (fire @ Blu 47 didn’t help-did it ever even open back up?). Anyway, the mid-40s on Vincennes and St Lawrence are pretty depressed. I never knew someone built a million-dollar new home on Vincennes but can’t imagine who would possibly buy it.
“if redfin is accurate you bought this place for 530k. If, if you don’t have any commission fees how much did you really make out ahead after having to pay property takes and not being able to invest in the market.”
Mike – this is the first property I have owned that I have lost money on (believe it or not, but my losses – after commissions, fees and when you factor in 3 years of taxes, mortgage payments, etc. are going to be nearly 100k – this is DESPITE a near full asking price offer). I am just relieved to get out of this property. The lesson I learned – which I repeat over and over and over and over again is that location is EVERYTHING. If you are looking at investment properties and have X amount to spend, buy in the best area you can. I would much rather buy an 550k craphbox house in Kenilworth as an investment property than a huge property in St. Charles. It was a hard lesson, but one that I hope sticks with me.
“I would much rather buy an 550k craphbox house in Kenilworth as an investment”
and its not a crap shack!!!
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Kenilworth/612-Exmoor-Rd-60043/home/13783651
buy it and rent it to me for $1000 a month till the market turns around.
Groove – that’s a great little house – GRAB it!!
not bad, Groove. I don’t know the NS all that well but I’m always shocked at just how big a diff GBR makes. How easy is it to get across the tracks around there?
“How easy is it to get across the tracks around there?”
one word TUNNEL to school, or park ave
Is there a tunnel right there to Sears?
Obviously the small kitchen and lack of 2nd bath will turn off some, but we could probably deal with it.
Groove,
Did you look at this?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Kenilworth/632-Wayland-Ave-60043/home/13783773
Clio, at least it’s off your hands now and you don’t have to have the stress to worry about taxes, maintenance, and further drops in home values. Use the cash now to invest in silver, gold, or even oil if this middle east crisis spreads to more countries. Or snatch up a property that is cash flow positive immediately, such as this duplex down.
This sounds like a fantastic idea for someone who considers driving down Western and Grand life’s most terrifying experience.
“Or snatch up a property that is cash flow positive immediately, such as this duplex down.”
” Or snatch up a property that is cash flow positive immediately, such as this duplex down.”
Ha ha ha – never in a million years. I would rather spend 14k on a vacation or donate it to a local animal shelter. I am DONE with real estate in crappy areas. From now on – only Gold Coast, Hinsdale, OB, and possibly certain locales on the North Shore (LF, Kenilworth, Winnetka).
My favorite part is the roostertail of snow inside the front door.
Clio, congrats on selling the farm sounds like it will defintiely make your life easier.
But I really gotta say you are missing out on some tremendous values by only focusing on those areas.
If you had that sentiment in boston you never would have made all that money on the South end in the 90s.
“Is there a tunnel right there to Sears?”
yep goes under GBR and the train
“Groove,
Did you look at this?”
i visited some of those bottom basement priced homes there when we had our “kenilworth” phase. the have good bones and oddly good roofs (have know idea why ITS ODD) but all where horribly outdated and add the property tax and then the commute quickly reality shows up.
Gesco,
You are probably right – but there were major differences in Boston when you compare it to Chicago:
1. land in Boston is SCARCE and the South End was in a premier location.
2. land in Boston is SCARCE (it is worth repeating)- nowhere to expand (think Manhattan).
3. Number of housing units was limited (unlike chicago where we have a glut of housing and MANY choices of neighborhood).
4. The South End was RAPIDLY gentrifying and I just rode the wave (where is there rapid gentrification in Chicago – there WERE neighborhoods that WERE coming up in the past 5 years, but these are now dead).
5. In the past, the teaching amongst individual “developers” was to follow gay people (no disrespect meant). Gays were pioneers and often would move into “bad” areas and turn them around. This is what happened in the South End and even in Boystwon/Lakeview in the 80s/90s. Gays are now more “mainstream” and seem to have scattered throughout Chicagoland (or maybe I am out of touch). I can’t figure out where the next “hot hood” is.
That being said, I am sure there are certain pockets and individual properties that may be good deals – the problem is that you are gambling and the risks, in my opinion, in Chicago are much higher.
That being said, I will email you a property that seems really promising/interesting. I would love to get your feedback.
For 14k, you can just gut this place and make a profit on selling the scrap.
Clio,
On #5… you’d be surprised how many “Gays” are in Bronzeville these days!
Duplex Down + Grand Boulevard = No Thank You
Sure, for $14K plus minor rehabbing this could be a great rental property, but who are you going to rent it to? And is it worth the stress of possibly having delinquent tenants, high vacancy rates, etc? If this was East of Cottage Grove it would be a different story, but alas it is not.
Clio,
The neighborhood thats rapidly gentrifying is Logan Square right now. I say that as a 20 something yr old young professional who has many friends moving to the area as renters (dont know of young professionals buying there though). There isn’t much condo housing stock as of now for them.
There have also been about 14 trendy restaurant/bar openings in the last year.
Having said all that I dont think Logan Square is as good as a deal for investors since given it wasnt the subject of speculation in the boom, there arent as many distressed properties that investors can swoop in and get at firesale prices..
There are also some areas on
logan is always “gentrifying” only to go back to crap once summer rolls around and the residents start getting sick of their un air conditioned apartments and start flooding the streets with violent behavior
The first place I ever lived in the city outside Hyde Park was Logan Square when one of my friends from the Bay Area convinced me to spend a summer in Chicago in a “hip hood”. This was back in 2002 before there was even a Starbys and Longman and Eagle was something called the Winds. Before Lula. I think the LS auditorium was some kind of alternative club or something.
Imagine my surprise, coming from the Marina in Es Eff and touching down in not-even-gentrfying-yet Logan. Lol. My hipster friend made Logan sound like Wicker Park was in the late 90’s. It wasn’t.
And it isn’t even now. And it never will be.
Logan, unlike Wicker Park / Bucktown, has an entrenched gang element that is STILL there. It’s been 10 years since it started gentrifying, folks. It’s nowhere near downtown, it’s a hassle to get to, it’s still dangerous, and it costs just as much to rent there as it does to rent in Wicker Park and Lakeview.
Why would a rational person want to live there?
“I LOVE the spring market!!!!”
Clio, This is why you are what makes this site good reading. There is a lot of BS and BSers on this website. But as far as I can remember, u are the only one who actually discussed ur own property for sale, took shit, priced it right and in the end sold it in this terrible market. Good job!
Thanks ss – now we will wait for miumiu to post something about how you only talk about me, soon to be followed by southport posting how miumiu and me are the same person, to be concluded by a series of numbers on the listing history of my farm by G. Seriously, though, I appreciate your post. Thanks…
Nice to see two extremes across the street from each other. This must make an interesting neighborhood.
I think there are some nice deals to be had in Logan Square and that there will be even better deals next year. I still think you may be able to pick up brick 2-flat in better part of logan by kedzie, california or western blue for 200k, but you will have to be patient and willing to look at multiple properties.
Humboldt Park west of kedzie is not gentrifying anytime soon. This is coming from a guy who owns 3 flat near pulaski and north.
For now, I am stuck with my 2006 purchase, which does cashflow due to my good mexican (belize too) renters (pay in cash on the 1st).
Still, if I could see the future I would have just kept my townhome in the burbs (Itasca).
Well Clio, was I wrong? ; )
Humboldt1 – I completely understand your feelings – I feel exactly the same with my remaining investment properties (they are cash flow positive – barely) but they tie up a lot of cash and I need to hold on to them for 10 -15 years to get the profit that I wanted from them). HOWEVER, now that you are already in the real estate game, why not take advantage of the lower prices on these units/buildings you are describing, and buy them? You may end up making a bigger profit in 10-15 years from them than from your existing 3 flat.
@miumiu – ha ha, I really want to meet ss – he/she sounds very nice, is very smart, and obviously is an EXCELLENT judge of character!!!
“Clio, This is why you are what makes this site good reading. There is a lot of BS and BSers on this website. But as far as I can remember, u are the only one who actually discussed ur own property for sale, took shit, priced it right and in the end sold it in this terrible market. Good job!”
here is a napkin, you have something on your chin
oh and logan gentrifying, hahahahahaha and hahahaahaaa.
my grand parents grew up in logan, my parents grew up in logan, i was raised in logan (not the whole time) and for the past 15 years it cant even get back to the level when my parents grew there.
add to that the economy being poo-poo-poo-dump it can only slide down from here.
“My hipster friend made Logan sound like Wicker Park was in the late 90’s.”
Your hipster friend made Logan sound like it was full of yuppies?
Or did you mean late 80s?
And, yes, Logan has the “next hood to turn” for 30 years. It’s much closer now than any time in the past, and some parts are pretty much there, but if anyone is waiting for *all* of Logan to turn to call it turned, they’re (1) in for a *loooong* wait and (2) judging things the wrong way–Logan is too big to wait for all of it to be good to call part of it good.
I know someone who bought a Victorian rowhouse on Vincennes just north of here. The place was a foreclosure, empty and obviously in need of renovation, but it had “good bones” and a creative eye could see that with a new kitchen and baths, and cleaned-up walls, floors and decor it could be a real beauty. (Thank goodness the prior owners did not strip out all the crown moldings and fireplace detail, the way too many owners/renovators like to do!)
This patch of North Kenwood/Grand Boulevard is now a hodgepodge of falling-apart buildings, empty lots and newly built/rehabbed homes and condos. Obviously it was a prime investment area during the bubble and is now dealing with the aftermath. I feel sorry for the people who bought this condo, thinking they were “pioneers” in an up-and-coming nabe, only to have their dreams dashed.
“Logan, unlike Wicker Park / Bucktown, has an entrenched gang element that is STILL there. It’s been 10 years since it started gentrifying, folks. It’s nowhere near downtown, it’s a hassle to get to, it’s still dangerous, and it costs just as much to rent there as it does to rent in Wicker Park and Lakeview.”
Huh, Logan Square is hard to get to? Have you ever looked at a map? The Kennedy runs right through it. The Blue Line runs right through it. Milwaukee runs right through it and Elston is right there as well. It’s nowhere near downtown? It’s less than 5 miles from downtown. It’s dangerous? As compared to what? Wicker Park? Logan is no worse than Wicker.
So, this eventually sold for $21k and now is back on the market for $179,900
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4616-S-Vincennes-Ave-60653/unit-1/home/18923837
Thanks for that juicy little morsel, Benjamon.
That is very interesting.
The Redfin notes say the 21K sale was part of a multi-property deal.
I wonder what else they bought?
Also, wonder how much the renovations cost?
What are similar units comping at these days?
Who’s the target buyer?
The taxes are extremely high at 5K.
You live in the area, right?
What do you think it will sell for?
Multi-property deal because it included the deeded parking I bet. You often see that with condos.
It doesn’t look like they did much reno. The kitchen (I think…) looks the same..now it just doesn’t have snow under the door.
Similar units aren’t selling unless they are foreclosures for the original $21k price it seems.
Taxes are based on the original selling price from 2006….they should have come down some, ours have but taxes sure are rough for these new conversions around here.
Target buyer and end sale price….hard to know. I didn’t want to be so close to 47th nor have my windows on the street in that area. I bought further north on a much more “gentrified” block.
Seller will include 42″ LCD TV to Buyer at closing if under contract by February 29, 2012.
————
Am I reading this right?! Are you kidding?! A Flat Panel TV ! What a sweet incentive!!!!
Seriously this was probably caught up in some gang bangin mortgage scam back in 06. Im shocked these kind of approvals went through back then.
This was the going rate back then. I looked at these duplexes in 2005 when they were listed for $275k and they seemed decent although I found much better. By 2006, the Olympic plans had probably been announced which brought the $50k increase.
Too bad I didn’t sell right before the Olympic announcement was made. There was definitely a fever in the air around here at that point! Instead, without the Olympics and with the economy in the crapper, it is quite different. Oh, well. Good thing I like my place. (A lot better than this too!)
“Seriously this was probably caught up in some gang bangin mortgage scam back in 06. Im shocked these kind of approvals went through back then.”
Yeah, I know a few that lost their asses on the Olympic Dream
I guess you win some you lose some.
“I bought further north on a much more “gentrified” block.”
Just curious, what blocks would you recommend in Grand Boulevard? After becoming very familiar with Kenwood, property in Grand Boulevard has been sparking my interest of late… but its hard to know which blocks are preferred when you don’t live in the area.
I would definitely stay east of King Drive. Earlier I would have included Michigan/Indiana, but now there are too many buildings with troubled/non-existant HOAs. Once you look east of MLK, I think Pershing-44th is better than 45th and south generally. Oakwood Boulevard is wonderful, Drexel is great. Bowen is a pretty nice street. It really depends on the street/block in this area though.
“Just curious, what blocks would you recommend in Grand Boulevard? After becoming very familiar with Kenwood, property in Grand Boulevard has been sparking my interest of late… but its hard to know which blocks are preferred when you don’t live in the area.”