Full Floor 3-Bedroom Vintage Beauty Reduces $50,000: 707 W. Junior Terrace in Buena Park
We last chattered about this 3-bedroom at 707 W. Junior Terrace in the Buena Park neighborhood of Uptown in July 2011.
See our prior chatter here.
The unit is a short sale and has been reduced $50,000 since July.
If you recall, the midrise building was built in 1927 and has 14 units.
Like many vintage buildings of this era, the unit has big room sizes and includes a full sized dining room and family room.
It has arched ceilings in the foyer, crown molding and a fireplace.
The kitchen has stainless steel appliances and stone counter tops.
There is space pac cooling and an in-unit washer dryer.
It looks like the parking is available for rent (not sure if this is just in the neighborhood or in the building.)
Back in July, most of you liked this property but thought it would sell for around $500,000 to $550,000 given that it was in Uptown and not in Lakeview.
Given that it’s now listed at $550,000, is it now priced to sell?
Greg Desmond at Prudential Rubloff still has the listing. See more pictures here.
Unit #5: 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, no square footage listed (but somewhere around 3000 based on other units in the building)
- Sold in March 1996 for $168,000
- Sold in February 2000 for $308,000
- Sold in May 2004 for $665,000
- Sold in July 2006 for $690,000
- Originally listed in February 2009 for $839,000
- Withdrawn from the market in January 2010
- Was listed in July 2011 as a “short sale” at $600,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $550,000
- Assessments of $1183 a month(includes heat, gas)
- Taxes of $4512
- Space pac cooling
- In-unit washer/dryer
- Rental parking
- Bedroom #1: 17×12
- Bedroom #2: 16×11
- Bedroom #3: 11×8
- Family room: 19×15
- Living room: 19×15
- Dining room: 17×12
- Kitchen: 25×12
I really like the place. Sometimes its hard to hit the sweet spot on vintage rehabs but I think this is done well. 50K reduction is not even close to enough. Especially when you’re in for over 1000 bucks a month. Come on.
beautiful unit. This is real “city living”.
Wow, how much for the neon deer head above the bed???
Got to admire the 2006 seller. Though they probably overpaid for whatever they moved into.
This is a lovely place. Probably still overpriced, but if it got below $500K it would be worthwhile. The location is a little suspect, because you’re rather far from the nice parts of Lakeview and too close to Uptown. I’ve always thought of Buena Park as kind of an in-between area, not really Uptown or Lakeview. The side streets around here are nice, but Broadway has always been a bit scummy over here.
“Got to admire the 2006 seller.”
Why? They almost certainly lost money, selling for only $25,000 more than they paid 26 months earlier.
I still love this place. But the price has got to come down more to make up for the assesments. Any outdoor space here?
I like this place, a lot.
Really low assessments for the size of the place. There really aren’t many unit owners covering buildings expenses.
I think the assessments/taxes are in line with units of this size. Its huge and beautify. I think its priced right…just needs to wait for someone who can put 20% down. I’d wait, if I were them. There really isn’t a lot of good product on the market right now.
Sorry – I meant the 2004 seller should be admired.
Sorry.
This is a Lakeview price.
Needs an Uptown asking price before it sells.
“Sorry – I meant the 2004 seller should be admired.”
Any guesses on how much they put into the reno?
still like this place, hope it finds a nice owner.
2006 seller did well in dodging the price bomb on the horizon.
Forget the neon deer head, I want the Silver Cuckoo clock!
love the section 8 highrise looming behind this place, literally doing it in the rear of this nice house
“Forget the neon deer head, I want the Silver Cuckoo clock!”
forget the cuckoo clock, I want the industrial-strength flush toilet!
someone should make an offer for it fully-furnished.
i’ve seen those toilets a lot in high-rises. had one in our old place you had to flush twice, not industrial strength at all
“forget the cuckoo clock, I want the industrial-strength flush toilet!”
Tell me about it, todays “water saving” crappers require 2 flushes to get the whole mess gone!
high rises are just not for me. $1000+ in monthly HOA? Yikes! That’s too much. I’d rather get a nice place in a low-rise or townhouse or something. These asst are out of control! Who really pays those amounts. I’d rather just rent
I don’t think that’s a section 8 high rise in the background. Looks like Imperial Towers on Marine Drive.
“someone should make an offer for it fully-furnished.”
Ok. $275. And they should accept because I’ll send my offer in along with a print out of this comp.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/651-W-Buena-Ave-60613/unit-3E/home/13395437
“Ok. $275. And they should accept because I’ll send my offer in along with a print out of this comp.”
You’d offer less, fully-furnished, than a not-as-nice place that’s half the size?
(yes, I know you weren’t serious)
Does anyone know what those little circle are below the crown molding on the picture of the living room looking into the dining room? Looks like they are on the far dining room wall as well.
I was 25% serious. They can keep the furnishings.
The subject property deserves a MAJOR discount for high assessments, lack of balcony/outdoor space, possible Section 8 neighbors, short sale hassle, Uptown location, lack of parking, etc etc.
“The subject property deserves a MAJOR discount for”
Compared to your comp? Really?
high assessments, CHECK
lack of balcony/outdoor space, CHECK
possible Section 8 neighbors, CHECK
short sale hassle, [unclear]
Uptown location, CHECK
lack of parking, CHECK
etc etc. CHECK
Seriously, if you think that this place isn’t already pricing in those realities, you haven’t been looking at 3000 sf, updated condos, on the northside, near the lake. Prolly still too rich, given the competition from #9 and the general market, but what’s this place ask it it were 1 mile south (ie just south of Addison)?
No, I haven’t been looking at overpriced condos outside the green zone.
This is not pricing in any of that. The ask IS the price for a mile south.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/643-W-Roscoe-St-60657/unit-D1/home/39785306
$550,000 CHECK
Lakeview, not Uptown, CHECK
2 parking spots, CHECK
Private deck, CHECK
70% cheaper assessments, CHECK
No Section-8 but probably a boarding hotel on Broadway, FAIL.
Yes, my lakeview comp’s bathrooms suck.
“This is not pricing in any of that. The ask IS the price for a mile south.”
That’s 1/3 smaller, and not as nice, overall.
btw, that is one that sold for meaningfully more than the ’08 (Feb) price. And the 08 price was the new-conversion price.
This one:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/422-W-Briar-Pl-60657/unit-3/home/13372927
Is closer (but is, indeed, nicer, and has parking) in size, style, etc. and is $1mm.
Also, the “70% cheaper” (really about 50%, adjusted for sq ft) assessments don’t include heat, while these do, which I’d wager is about half the difference.
And this:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/442-W-Wellington-Ave-60657/unit-12E/home/18904295
Is a ratehr out of date sale, but post-Lehman, and is again similar in size and on one floor. Co-op, tho, so a different market, and $3550 is a big monthly.
“love the section 8 highrise looming behind this place, literally doing it in the rear of this nice house”
Check your assumptions before spouting garbage.
This apartment is gorgeous… spacious, private, well finished, great kitchen and bathrooms. Close to the lake, parks, easy access to LSD, away from the bad parts of Uptown… I can’t imagine the price is that far off.
Oh my God I love this place. Love it love it love it if I didn’t have kids I’d be all over it. I hope it moves.
High rises are not my thing, and neither is this neighborhood. But DAMN, that kitchen was done right. Really nice.
that kitchen is laid out terribly if you like to cook. so much counterspace.. so far away from the range.
Onlooker…Those little round circles, I believe, are part of a space pac air-conditioning system which is installed in older buildings/homes without a central system. I think the unit is lovely and hopefully will find someone who can not only afford it, but appreciates the tasteful renovations. Too many newbies making comments lately of which they know not!!!
$690k buy with $71k down. The rest spread out over two mortgages. This is the disaster that happens when ‘put down as little as humanly possible’. Will they walk away? How large will the deficiency be on the $202,000 second mortgage? Will they have to file bankruptcy? Will their paychecks be garnished for life? Will they cash out the IRA to settle?
The other issue I have with putting down as little as possible is cash flow. The larger the down payment, the small mortgage payment, and the easier it is to pay the mortgage with a reduced income vs. blowing through all the savings trying to pay a higher mortgage…of course it’s all relative and the diff between 5% and 20% on a cheapo house is very minor…but sometimes a couple hundred bucks a month can make all the difference when you’re looking for work….
“$690k buy with $71k down. The rest spread out over two mortgages. This is the disaster that happens when ‘put down as little as humanly possible’.”
There is a huge difference between only being able to put down 71k, and choosing to only put down 71k.
“There is a huge difference between only being able to put down 71k, and choosing to only put down 71k.”
In most cases isn’t that a distinction without a difference? You see you have money, a decent income, and you live in a world and a social circle (like you said 100% of your friends all followed the same pattern) where all you see is one thing, but in reality, things are so much more complicated than that. And that’s ok, it’s not necessarily your fault; I spend a lot of time in the trenches and the gutters with deadbeats and debtors and creditors and I’ve attended real estate closings and helping people with real estate everything from multimilliionares to land barons with 7 properties and not a dime in their pocket. The thing I’ve noticed is taht it’s not so black/white; and that people in general have less money than you think…not more… and factor in that there are more STUDENT loans outstanding, primarily among younger people, right now than credit card debt among the entire population, and you get the sense that debt rules everything us.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/TOTALSL
outstanding CONSUMER debt since the 40’s via the st louis fed. that little dip since ’08 was caused by defaults, not by repayments…and the uptick last year? That was primarily student loans, with some auto, but mostly student loans. One year of college at Loyola costs more than a new car these days…and a degree frmo loyola costs four new cars…lather rinse repeat all most universities around the country…
“In most cases isn’t that a distinction without a difference?”
Not at all. I could pay cash for a condo. Instead, I am going to put down 20%, and get a 5/1 arm on the rest. If it was a Fannie property, I would probably only put down 5% Big difference.
“where all you see is one thing, but in reality, things are so much more complicated than that”
Hardly. I never claimed that everyone made 150k. I said that everyone I know that made 150k bought 450k houses with 20% down.
Chuk, you’re a specuvestor speculating on condos with opm. Your advice does not apply to your everyday run of the mill homeowner trying to balance debt maintenance with cash flow and liquidity.
“Chuk, you’re a specuvestor speculating on condos with opm.”
No, I need a condo for my work in the city.
“Your advice does not apply to your everyday run of the mill homeowner trying to balance debt maintenance with cash flow and liquidity.”
What advice? You are confusing someone that can only afford to put down 10% (bad news), with someone that CHOOSES to only put down 10%. Those buyers are not equal risk.
“Your advice does not apply to your everyday run of the mill homeowner trying to balance debt maintenance with cash flow and liquidity.”
You are looking for a 300k place. I’m assuming you have saved up the 60k down payment. I am merely saying that if you can get almost the same terms, you are better off putting down 10% at these rates, than 20. That shifts some of the risk off of you, and gives you a larger cushion should you fall on hard times.
I am NOT saying that someone that has only saved up 30k should buy a place for 300k.
“someone should make an offer for it fully-furnished.”
ME! ME! If only… this place seriously is magazine worthy. May be my favorite on here ever, even with the lack of outdoor space. Still, that Roscoe comp makes me think this may still be too high? Better school district makes a BIG difference.
“Chuk, you’re a specuvestor speculating on condos with opm. Your advice does not apply to your everyday run of the mill homeowner trying to balance debt maintenance with cash flow and liquidity.”
HD.. the problem arises because you ALWAYS classify EVERYONE into that category. Chuk, at least recognizes both.
“You are confusing someone that can only afford to put down 10% (bad news), with someone that CHOOSES to only put down 10%. Those buyers are not equal risk.”
You also have to recognize that some people go to tremendous lengths to make sure your and annony’s ilk can’t see personal assets.
Much better for you to see what I want you to see and logically make all the wrong assumptions, that I assume you will make. Lawyer told me this many many years ago, “You can not make yourself ‘bulletproof'”. That very afternoon was the day I decided ‘invisible’ will do just as well. You were the guys I *was* afraid of… *now* it would be the gov’t. Either way. Illiquid targetable assets that you can not extricate yourself from, almost instantaneously, if necessary, while diminishing the consequences of, does not fit in Ze’s world view. I still would own the rights to the very same asset 10% or 100% down. In America, I will go for 10%-20% max. And if you want to pull out Umbrella policies and Joint Tenancy crap.. my response is simply this. If I have to have those things brought up in a defense, I already know I lost.
” the diff between 5% and 20% on a cheapo house is very minor…but sometimes a couple hundred bucks a month can make all the difference when you’re looking for work….”
If a couple hundred bucks a month can make all the difference in your world, you should really not be buying real estate – you should rent.
You guys crack me up. Sure there are people who can put down more than 20% but choose to put down less; and there are also people who use bongs, bowls and one hitters for smoking tobacco or novelty purposes too! Right gringo? Chuk is the one guy who keeps a 3 foot graphix and uses it as a vase for flowers “see guys, not everyone uses it as a bong…”
“Chuk is the one guy who keeps a 3 foot graphix and uses it as a vase for flowers “see guys, not everyone uses it as a bong…””
What in the world are you talking about? When did I ever say it was common to put down more than 20%? I just said that with rates this low, I believe it is smarter to put down a smaller downpayment than you can afford. If you can afford 20%, but can get away with only putting down 10%, I believe that is a smart move. Period.
HD – I think you are losing it. What is going on?
whatever, chuk has his worldview, I have mine, and that’s never going to change.
Actually, our worldviews are extremely similar. You just like to twist around what I say.
JUM – Thanks! I have been in houses with it before but never noticed this before!
“Onlooker…Those little round circles, I believe, are part of a space pac air-conditioning system which is installed in older buildings/homes without a central system.”
“Chuk is the one guy who keeps a 3 foot graphix and uses it as a vase for flowers “see guys, not everyone uses it as a bong…””
Not just him… when the wife’s family comes over, I put Calla Lillies in mine.
“May be my favorite on here ever, even with the lack of outdoor space.”
What’s witih the obsession with outdoor space? No one who loves vintage/pre-war buildings is buying for outdoor space. Not a single one of those buildings has it (with the exception of the penthouses or some weird random lower level unit.) So, that is NOT a detriment to those looking at these buildings.
“What’s witih the obsession with outdoor space?”
Where can you grill your brats and fry your turkey, then?
“Where can you grill your brats and fry your turkey, then?”
on your huge patio overlooking your beautiful yard in st. charles.
you can’t have your cake and eat it too……
hd: “there are people who can put down more than 20% but choose to put down less”
chuk: “What in the world are you talking about? When did I ever say it was common to put down more than 20%?”
hd: “whatever, chuk”
chuk: “You just like to twist around what I say.”
You can’t maket this stuff up, folks.
i like having a terrace, so that the apt doesn’t smell like weed. Part of my unicorn criteria.
G, you’re such a dummy. Where did I say it was common?
Try this on for size. There are people that make 10mil a year.
Does that mean I’m saying it’s common to make 10mil a year?
Sabrina is right about outdoor space. As someone who loves vintage and thinks this unit is great, I certainly wasn’t looking for a porch or balcony.
As for where to grill, when I lived in an apartment, we walked across the street to the park and grilled there.
“G, you’re such a dummy. Where did I say it was common?”
When did anyone accuse you of saying it?
“You just like to twist around what I say.”
LOL
Since you appear to be slow, I’ll make this easy for you:
If you are someone like HD who has 20% down on a 300k place, I think you are better off putting down only 10% at these rates, and keep the rest to weather a layoff, invest in something else, etc.
That’s it.
What percentage of 10% or less downers do you think could have put 20% or more down, chuk?
I agree with, hd. The answer is far fewer than those who can’t.
Most would just want to avoid paying mortgage insurance.
chuk: “What in the world are you talking about? When did I ever say it was common to put down more than 20%?”
C’mon chuk, I’m slow. Show me where you were accused of saying this. You twisted hd’s words because you’re smart?
Yeah, pmi is stupid.
“What percentage of 10% or less downers do you think could have put 20% or more down, chuk?”
Irrelevant. I never said it was a majority. I said IF you can do it, I think it is a good idea to keep your down payment low.
“I agree with, hd. The answer is far fewer than those who can’t.”
Me too. Doesn’t mean it’s not a good idea if you can.
“Most would just want to avoid paying mortgage insurance.”
Fannie foreclosures only require 3.5% down and no PMI. Why put 20% down on that?
I say put down 20% and have enough for at least one year rainy day fund. That’s what we did.
We would have put in 20% but I work in finance (shaky at best) and wife may stop working whenever she gets pregnant AND the house needs some repairs. I decided the extra PMI and interest were a cheap security blanket. Also, we got a 4 bed for what a 1-2 bet costs in our area so once reno is complete I have *maybe a shot* at re-appraising higher, paying the mort ahead, or refi-ing. I figure if the bonus is intact this year we’ll pay down otherwise we will be just fine with our extra 150 a month. Different strokes.
“That’s it.”
Then why do you feel the need to ramble along anyway while twising around what others say? Such as this:
chuk: “What in the world are you talking about? When did I ever say it was common to put down more than 20%?”
When were you accused of saying it?
“C’mon chuk, I’m slow.”
Yes, you are:
“You see you have money, a decent income, and you live in a world and a social circle (like you said 100% of your friends all followed the same pattern) where all you see is one thing, but in reality, things are so much more complicated than that. And that’s ok, it’s not necessarily your fault”
And in the thread from yesterday with HD.
G – why do you always insult and fight people who have different opinions than you? chuk is a very realistic real estate investor – he sounds very rational and the thought process behind what he posts is backed up by proof and facts (as opposed to your incessant ridiculous statements about “knife-catchers”) – so please, G, get some help. I can refer you to some psychiatrists if you need help.
“why do you always insult and fight people who have different opinions than you?”
Right back at ya, sunshine.
Or are we supposed to read between the lines to find a complete mea culpa and apology for calling everyone (fine, exclude G if you must) idiots and morons again and again and again?
And again.
chuk’s opinions aren’t very different from mine. He, like you clio, resorts to insults first after his straw men and twisting the words of others is illustrated. I enjoy pointing them out, just like with you.
Btw, chuk isn’t a real estate investor.
I’ve heard conflicting things about PMI. Some have said that once you appraise high enough (even in this market) you can make the bank stop charging you PMI without refi, others have told me you have to refi.
Which is it? wouldn’t it suck to refi at a higher interest rate?
“Yeah, pmi is stupid.”
“as opposed to your incessant ridiculous statements about “knife-catchers””
Ridiculous? Where have I been proven wrong on any of those calls? You’re just angry that you didn’t start listening to me sooner. It would have helped you avoid that great Halsted condo purchase in 2009. At least you listened enough to get out before it gets worse.
Icarus, the few disclosures I’ve seen recently indicate that most lenders will drop it at 80% LTV (but they can request a new appraisal), or at 78% they have to drop it without an appraisal.
Looks like the 9th floor unit is still on the market at $700,000. It’s higher up and has a lake view and one extra bedroom. Still not sure I’d pay the premium.
http://www.trulia.com/property/3049112950-707-W-Junior-Ter-9-Chicago-IL-60613
The Private Mortgage Insurance act took effect in July of 1999. It gives homeowners a number of rights.
1) Lenders have to give you a written statement explaining that you have PMI and when you’ll be allowed to cancel it.
2) The lender must allow you to cancel PMI when your equity is 22% or more.
3) And you can ask for permission once your equity reaches 20%.
Also:
FHA loans are not required to drop PMI under the same rules as conforming loans – if you have an FHA loan – expect to keep paying PMI for at least 5 years AND until your LTV is less than 78%. Refinancing may be the best option for you.
Icarus, to echo above, yes – 22% equity is automoatic (if you are paying it down, and based on the original purchase and loan amt) the appraisal is not guaranteed at all. re-fi could work and depending on where you are with your original interest rate you may be doing a hair better if it happens in the near term. While we will likely see increasing mort rates I don’t think they will skyrocket any time soon provided we don’t see a big uptick in inflation.
In our situation we will likely be dropping a ton of cash to pay down the mort if/when wife stops working then we will either recast or re-fi the loan for a lower monthly. Problem is we don’t have an exact idea of where/when we will need the money most as there has been a lot of uncertainty thrown our way.
thanks everyone. for us it might be a question of only putting 10% down — if that is still possible — now versus waiting until we have 20% which could be another year or more. Is there an easy rule of thumb for estimating PMI?
“Is there an easy rule of thumb for estimating PMI?”
google
pmi calculator
and use one of the calculators.
Banks are not required to get rid of PMI if you accelerate the pay down of your loan. They are only required to do so under the original amortization schedule. In other words, if you buy a place with 10% down and have PMI and then get a bonus, etc and decide to put the equity back into the house, the bank is not necessarily going to remove the PMI.
I had a case with an i-banker who did 90% financing with PMI. Seven months later he got his year end bonus and wanted to get it removed by putting equity in. The bank did a BPO (realtor appraisal) and it came in about $5k less than he paid for it. The bank used the drop in value as a reason to not remove PMI even though the borrower could pay down the loan to 80% of the lower value. It was only after demanding a 2nd BPO showing the value had not declined, that the bank finally agreed to remove it.
The best bet is to avoid PMI altogether by getting a HELOC or in some cases doing upfront MI instead of monthly MI.
You can get rid of PMI if you refinance out of it though.
Icarus, if you can put 10% down, there is no reason for you to have PMI with good credit.
“Banks are not required to get rid of PMI if you accelerate the pay down of your loan. They are only required to do so under the original amortization schedule.”
I imagine you know a lot more about this than I do, but I’m very surprised that any bank would enforce this clause.
Typical PMI Rates on conventional loans.
90.1 – 95% Financing .67 PMI Factor
85.1 – 90% Financing .49 PMI Factor
80.1 – 85% Financing .32 PMI Factor
Payment is calculated as follows;
Loan amount * .0049/12 = Monthly PMI Amount
The MI companies are getting more sophisticated with pricing though as a few have very specific calculators that price based on individual borrower risk profiles now so MI costs are all over the place (for the better, it is getting cheaper).
“Russ on October 18th, 2011 at 10:44 am
Icarus, if you can put 10% down, there is no reason for you to have PMI with good credit.”
Is that because of a second mortgage? what are the interest rates on 2nd mortgages with good credit these days anyway?
Chuk, the 1999 rule you cited only applies to the original amortization schedule meaning prepayments don’t factor into it.
In the past, they were more forgiving about removing PMI just by showing a new appraisal, etc. However, they are now increasingly only operating exactly how the rule states if they believe the value isn’t there or if MI has not been paid for any significant amount of time.
HD, usually between 4.74% – 5.5% depending on loan size, credit, LTV, and property types. Rates on HELOCs are Prime Plus a Margin. Prime is at 3.25% right now and the margin is what changes depending on your risk profile.
The rates on HELOCs are what will adjust when ever the Fed gets around to raising the Fed Funds rate.
“Chuk, the 1999 rule you cited only applies to the original amortization schedule meaning prepayments don’t factor into it.”
Yeah, I didn’t realize that. I can see why they might not take PMI off just because of price appreciation, but if you paid it down yourself ahead of time, I’m surprised that they would ever be such sticklers.
What are the chances of getting a HELOC for a $400K home with 10% down and a credit score near 800 AND renting out a 2/1 condo?
Fairly easy assuming you have the income to support the PITI on the 2/1 condo. Rental income won’t count unless you have it on tax returns (you can no longer use new leases). DTI usually caps out at 45%.
So whatever you make times .45% is the total amount of PITI on new place, PITI on old place, and other debts (car payments, min on credit cards).
Double down much Icarus?
don’t worry HD, surely banks have learned from the mistakes of the last decade and will not give me a loan under Russ’ conditions, even if the numbers do crunch true. 😀
And even if they did, the house I want is owned by Owners in Denial who think the updates to the kitchen merit a much too high for the neighborhood pricetag thus have taken it off the market until the market improves to Insanity Levels again.
“No Section-8 but probably a boarding hotel on Broadway, FAIL.”
Really? Boradway and Roscoe? Stop with this nonsense
price drop again…now listed @509k
Not sure if I’ll get a response on Friday afternoon but I’d like to hijack this thread and pose a question to the more knowledgeable CC’ers out there…
Is there any chance a lender would lower my interest rate without refinancing if we do not have any financial hardship? Is it even legal to do so? We are paying 4.5% on a 15 year mortgage and current rates are about 3.25%. I would like them to lower it to 3.75% or 4% without a refi. If I refinance, my bank loses the nice 4.5% interest I am paying and would have to buy a new loan in the open market at 3.25%. But I would also have to pay origination, appraisal, etc. costs to refinance, and I think our PMI would go up. Our original loan was 3.5% down FHA and we are now at about 10% equity.
Is it even worth a 5 or 10 minute call to my bank to ask?
“Is it even worth a 5 or 10 minute call to my bank to ask?”
Yes? If you don’t ask, the answer is *already* no, so “10” minutes is worth a shot. At least you won’t womder “what if”. It’s just like calling the phone/cabel/credit card company–they’ll *never* do it if you don’t ask.
That said, I doubt they’d do it, for a host of reasons, but youneverknow.
Why do you think your PMI will go up? Did you not finance the upfront with the FHA loan?
“Yes? If you don’t ask, the answer is *already* no, so “10? minutes is worth a shot.”
Well I don’t know if it is even possible from a legal standpoint. If I know that the bank couldn’t do it even if they wanted to, then I wouldn’t bother asking.
“Why do you think your PMI will go up? Did you not finance the upfront with the FHA loan?”
The PMI for FHA loans has both upfront and ongoing (until paid down to 78% LTV) portions, and they changed this year. I would not need to pay the upfront portion again (that rate went down), but the monthly rate nearly doubled I think (still have to pay that). So I would get screwed there because we paid the higher upfront amount on the initial loan, and we would not get back the difference now, but we would still need to pay the higher monthly rate on the new loan
DC, you would have to go through the refinance process even if you call your old bank. You can do no closing costs loans as well, so you woldn’t necessarily have all the refi costs. Most of the Too Big Too Fail banks aren’t that competitive though, so you should talk to an independent lender with multiple mortgage outlets. Give me a buzz to discuss.
Anon, FHA screwed their current mortgage holders by jacking up the MI premiums. It used to be FHA did streamline refinances with no appraisal as long as the PITI was dropping by 5%. But last year, these geniuses doubled the monthly MI rates on all new loans, even refinances of existng loans. So now for many FHA borrowers it makes no sense to refinance even if they have higher than market rates because any savings they were getting from a new lower rate has been negated by the doubled monthly MI premiums. Of course, these idiots at HUD a few months ago were actually wondering publicly why their refinance volume dropped off…
“PMI for FHA loans”
Would your re-fi be an FHA, too? I’m probably just being ignant on those sorts of details.
“Well I don’t know if it is even possible from a legal standpoint. ”
If the bank owns the loan directly, and 100%, then they certainly *could*. If it’s somehow securitized, or whatever, and the bank is just the front person for the real owner, then likely not. But that’s probably something you can’t know unless you ask.
“FHA screwed their current mortgage holders by jacking up the MI premiums. It used to be FHA did streamline refinances with no appraisal as long as the PITI was dropping by 5%. But last year, these geniuses doubled the monthly MI rates on all new loans, even refinances of existng loans. So now for many FHA borrowers it makes no sense to refinance even if they have higher than market rates because any savings they were getting from a new lower rate has been negated by the doubled monthly MI premiums”
That is basically where we are finding ourselves. We would still save some money but the increase in MIP offsets the savings enough that the payback period to recoup upfront costs is long enough that I didn’t want to bother to refi (at least that was the case the last time I looked at it).
Also when it comes to a refi I don’t know what our equity is. We are right around 10% based on our purchase price which I think is a threshold for better terms and possibly a non-FHA loan, but I don’t want to pay $300 for an appraisal to find out we are under 10% and can’t get good terms.
And so on… which is why I would be happy if Chase would just lower it to 3.75-4% and we’d keep the loan and be done with it.
Anon, almost all loans are securitized so it would wind up being a complete refinance app if it is FHA or Conventional. Some portfolio lenders do refinances (really more of a loan modification) where they just literally drop the rate but that would be on jumbo/non-conforming loans. Far and few between.
In some ways, securitization has made the mortgage market less efficient. It is the inefficiency of efficiency.
DC, if you are at 90% we can probably get you a better deal than FHA. However, you will have the risk of the appraisal. Seriously, give me a buzz and I can run some numbers to see if it makes sense.
The whole refinance thing drives me nuts. Given all the other handouts the government doles out to people in worse financial shape than I. I have had my 30 year fixed for 5 years now. I am paying 5.98. I have never missed a payment and have never even been late. However there is nothing to do, because I run the risk of an appraisal coming in below my current loan value. I wish there were more options for folks in my situation.
DC. Call your bank and see if you qualify for a HARP refi. Gov program for people who have been paying etc but have lost equity due to real estate collapse. We are doing a Harp refi through Chase (they hold our original mortgage)
The only thing you have to pay for is the appraisal. We will be lowering our rate by approx 1.5% andshortening the length of our loan by two years. From 30 yr to 20 yr.
“price drop again…now listed @509k”
Thanks for the update Steve. A sign of the times, I’m afraid.
“However there is nothing to do, because I run the risk of an appraisal coming in below my current loan value.”
What is the “risk” of inquiring? maybe you can get the refi done….is there a ‘risk”? it won’t affect your current loan, right?