Get 1800 Sq Ft and Assessments Under $550 a Month in River North: 33 W. Huron
This 3-bedroom in the midrise building at 33 W. Huron in River North has been on the market since February 2011.
In that time it has been reduced $39,100.
The unit is listed $24,900 over the 2004 purchase price.
At 1800 square feet, it has an open kitchen/living room concept.
The kitchen has a granite island, maple cabinets and stainless steel appliances.
The unit also has the much sought after separate laundry room with a side by side washer/dryer.
The assessments are only $535 a month, but the building has no amenities and no doorman.
Located directly across the street from Whole Foods and within the middle of the River North/Michigan Avenue action, is this a deal?
Jena Radnay at @Properties has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #606: 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1800 square feet
- Sold in July 1998 for $347,000
- Sold in June 2004 for $575,000
- Originally listed in February 2011 for $639,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $599,900 (parking included)
- Assessments of $535 a month
- Taxes of $8206
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 14×15
- Bedroom #2: 10×16
- Bedroom #3: 10×11
$535 assessments for nothing? not really that great of a deal IMO
Homeowners Association Information
Assessments/Association Dues: $535
Frequency: Monthly
Includes Water
Includes Common Insurance
Includes Security System
Includes Exterior Maintenance
Includes Snow Removal
Not one but two cribs.
What’s the concept behind leaving four pairs of shoes and 8 pieces of clothing? They basically emptied the place, why not clear the closets, too?
“What’s the concept behind leaving four pairs of shoes and 8 pieces of clothing? They basically emptied the place, why not clear the closets, too?”
doode your so 2009, time to get wit it!
this is the new trend in “staging”. 2 cribs, a few shoes, two days worth of clothing helps get a feel for how you would “live” in the unit.
“Not one but two cribs.”
HD: so who wins/loses the supply/demand game in the nicer burbs: the crib-owner homebuyers versus the baby-boomer downsizer sellers?
Exactly my thoughts Sonies. The main expenses are heating, doorman, pool, gym, cable and internet. This one has none!
I think it is 1 crib – put in 2 pictures.
Yes – but you forget how much snow removal costs!
or the same crib in two different rooms – different flooring or at least it looks that way.
Used to live across the street, above the whole foods. Nice location if w/o kids, true walk to work if it’s nice out, convenient to lots of stuff, pretty easy to get on the highway. I’m pretty sure I looked at one of these around time of 2004 sale but confess I can’t really remember anything about the unit. Didn’t seem to be right long term to me personally and felt very pricey.
$535 a month in assessments I find hardly a deal. But then again, this place is way out of my price range.
Nice unit, good price
Looks like two cribs to me – one has wheels.
The unit is in the Ogden School district so it’s a good idea to have the cribs. Walk to everything including dropping the kids off at school.
I think this is a good deal for a 3 BR. $525-$550K sells it.
Way out of my price range but I’d take this place. I agree that the assessments are insane though.
Re: the closets I think maybe they already hotfooted it out to Winnetka with the twins and are using this as an in-town while it’s on the market. The second crib does have wheels but they look the same otherwise. The new Ogden school is just a few blocks from here.
How are the assessments insane for a 3 bed? You have to pay $ to maintain a building. The roof, facade, hallway cleanings, garbage removal, snow removal, parking garage upkeep, all takes $.
This building is known for having the lowest assessments in the area!
Low $500,000’s; if they’re chasing the market down then it’ll sell next year in the high high $400,000’s. The spring bounce is nearly over, and the downward trend is set to resume shorty.
If I was looking for a 3BR, I would definitely be considering this.
David, the way you are posting it sounds like you are trying to sell the place
absolutely not, just respect the building
Some highlights from my first look at the preliminary April 2011 sales data:
Chicago attached & detached SFH closings drop 25%+ YOY to slightly above 2009’s 15-year low. SS & Foreclosures are just below 50% of total sales. 25% YOY median decline.
Lake View condo/TH closings drop 30%+ YOY to slightly above 2009’s 20-year low. SS & Foreclosures are at 18% of closings.
Lincoln Park condo/TH closings drop 35%+ YOY to establish a new April low in my records back to 1988. SS & Foreclosures are at 11% of closings.
Near North Side condo/TH closings drop ~15% YOY but are still 35%+ above 2009’s low. SS & Foreclosures are at 22% of closings.
Loop condo/TH closings drop 60%+ YOY and are ~20% below 2009’s low. SS & Foreclosures are at 27% of closings.
Near South Side condo/TH closings drop 50%+ YOY and are 35%+ below 2009’s low. SS & Foreclosures are at 48% of closings.
Interesting data; basically things are looking great – for those who expect further price declines in this ‘double dip’.
G and HD – don’t you two ever get tired of saying the same things over and over again? I hope you realize that any TRUE buyers out there think you are idiots because they are not seeing any deals. Show me great deals in 60610, 60611, and 60614 (ok and 60654 – for you, sonies). There aren’t any…. (and please don’t show me a 1/1 at 10 e ontario or 2625 N. clark). Good lord – open your eyes
“I hope you realize that any TRUE buyers out there think you are idiots because they are not seeing any deals.”
They think we are idiots when they confirm what we have been saying?
clio – use your alleged ivy league education for once.
YOu said: “Show me great deals in 60610, 60611, and 60614 (ok and 60654 – for you, sonies). There aren’t any”
Few deals available, ergo, few sales.
Notice the large YOY drops?
“don’t you two ever get tired of saying the same things over and over again?”
Good lord…
HD – buyers don’t give a crap that there are “few sales” – they want to see the deals. Your data and interpretations are unhelpful and misleading.
“Your data and interpretations are unhelpful and misleading.”
I thought that buyers would just have to pay more, clio?
Exactly clio – they want to see the deals. They don’t see any, so they’re not buying. I learned this in Junior High economics class.
“#clio on May 3rd, 2011 at 9:12 am
HD – buyers don’t give a crap that there are “few sales” – they want to see the deals. Your data and interpretations are unhelpful and misleading.”
Who needs factual data? I am willing to pay more so i can finally paint my walls!
I have looked at units here but decided to move a little more north. Great building known for low assessments. Comparable assessments in three bedroom full amenity buildings in the area are usually double (at least). Each unit has its own heat and air conditioner so you don’t have to deal with waiting for the building to turn on the air in the spring and heat in the winter.
Exactly – Groove – and though you are being sarcastic, most people are going to bite the bullet and pay whatever premium they have to for that “pride of ownership”.
“HD – buyers don’t give a crap that there are “few sales” – they want to see the deals. Your data and interpretations are unhelpful and misleading.”
Sure, buyers want killer deals right now, as nobody wants to be a so-called knifecatcher. That said, in the truly premium neighborhoods, while there is a dearth of “deals” (i.e., 10 – 20% below bubble pricing), there’s also simply a shortage of listings. For instance, when I search for 2/2’s in LP between $450-$550k, the Redfin map is densely populated in the west, with very few listings shown in the OTT/ELP areas.
Believe it or not, there are buyers out there who simply want to buy a place for a reasonably good price – a little (say, 5%) under bubble pricing, but not necessarily a “steal.”
G — thanks for the data. For LP and the Near North Side, do you have data on year-over-year changes in months of inventory? I’m curious to see whether the drop in closing is mostly from fewer buyers, fewer sellers (maybe people are just accepting that they’re going to be living where they are longer instead of trading up every few years), or fewer of both.
“Believe it or not, there are buyers out there who simply want to buy a place for a reasonably good price – a little (say, 5%) under bubble pricing, but not necessarily a “steal.””
Why would this be considered unbelievable? This obviously describes the relatively few buyers currently in LP. They are knife-catchers. Nothing wrong with that, either, if that is how they choose to spend their money.
“They are knife-catchers. Nothing wrong with that, either, if that is how they choose to spend their money.”
Moron – when you use the word “knife-catcher” you are implying that there is something wrong with it. A more appropriate label would be “winner” who knows what they want.
G, care to share with us where it is that you reside (approx within a couple of blocks)?
annony – exactly. Few good listings, few sales. Who will blink first?
JMM has already told us that G lives in the basement of the County BUilding.
“anonny on May 3rd, 2011 at 10:21 am
G, care to share with us where it is that you reside (approx within a couple of blocks)?”
Aren’t you all saying the same thing? There are not that many good deals and most of us with intention of buying have seen a trend of properties slowly reducing prices so we feel we are on a downward spiral where the end is not clear.
Yesterday Spinoza was asking me what I am waiting for. I think a better question is what is the rush? Unless for some reason one needs to urgently buy, I’d say wait and watch is a better strategy. Also not a single one of my favorite properties have sold. What is the there to force me to act. My only concern is the interest rates and they seem to be well in place at least till end of summer.
“G, care to share with us where it is that you reside (approx within a couple of blocks)?”
Sure, if you can explain to my satisfaction what difference it would make? I’ll wait…
You guys ARE idiots.
As Clio has irrefutably demonstrated, buyers do not make any decisions based on available inventory, prices, or market conditions. All this nonsense about trends in prices, inventory, foreclosures, price vs OER and income, etc, are irrelevant. Buyers don’t pay attention to any of that. They simply buy because they want to own, and continue to do so.
Sellers, on the hand, and as Clio has also irrefutably demonstrated, make calculated decisions about available inventory, prices, and market conditions. They’re never going to sell at anything lower than their desired price.
And they are quite right to do so, for as you can see from the above supply and demand basis, real estate is always a good investment, volume will always remain high, and prices will always rise.
Q.E.D.
Clio, you are truly a saint for suffering these idiots who cannot understand your appreciation of market dynamics.
“Yesterday Spinoza was asking me what I am waiting for. I think a better question is what is the rush?”
Several reasons:
1. Life goes by way to fast – I just spent a long weekend in boston and went back to the places I used to visit in med school – and I was so old, it was awful. I don’t feel old – or look old, but it is amazing how fast life goes by. Money is not that important…
2. Interest rates are rising
3. Prices are going to start rising
4. Wasted money on rent
and so on….
thanks roma – I knew that you were pretty smart
Clio, I am not renting so that is not a concern for me. I want to buy my 2nd in town and will rent out the 1BR I already own. I still have an in town so my quality of life is not compromised. 2 and 3 are in contradiction. If the interest rates rise, prices will fall in such an economy. Also I see no sign of rising interests in short term.
“Moron – when you use the word “knife-catcher” you are implying that there is something wrong with it. A more appropriate label would be “winner” who knows what they want.”
I see nothing wrong with someone who chooses to buy an asset while it declines in value. Neither does the seller of the asset, I’m sure. If that makes the knife catcher a real winner in your book, who cares? I don’t see them as a winner or loser for simply making a personal financial decision. It’s not like these few buyers are going to alter the downward trendline. They certainly aren’t going to become numerous enough for you to win our bet, so you will be gone from here soon enough.
G – what are you talking about – you get crazier every day. You need to take some time off
More name calling, clio?
G,
I want to know where you live as it will be a glimpse into a question i wonder, that does G buy organic or not. where you live will also allow me to tell how much you pay on gas which will show bias on how you value homes closer to public transportation.
so please do tell
*gosh i am hoping its east of lincoln south of belden north of webster!
“gosh i am hoping its east of lincoln south of belden north of webster!”
He’s got a 1 br in HD’s Uptown building. Living the high life!
G – this stalemate can’t go on forever and, in the end, it will be the person with the product (the sellers) that win. Buyers need to buy – sure they can hold on for a year or two – but after a few years, they are going to bite the bullet. The same thing happens with gas prices – people bitch and moan and do stupid things (like take public transportation, bike, walk, etc.) for awhile – but within weeks/months, they go back to driving. It is human nature – if only people would realize this, they would understand the world so much better.
“Moron – when you use the word “knife-catcher” you are implying that there is something wrong with it. A more appropriate label would be “winner” who knows what they want.”
Spot on if precisely what they want is losing a bunch of money.
“Spot on if precisely what they want is losing a bunch of money.”
Bob – sorry to rain on your parade, but you already “lose a bunch of money” on food, transportation, rent, clothes, vacation, etc. – the point is that you have to live your life to the fullest and sometimes “winning” is actually spending money on something you like. People could say that I wasted 300k+ on a car – but the pleasure that car has brought me far outweighs the money I lost…
“He’s got a 1 br in HD’s Uptown building. Living the high life!”
thats not what i heard, The truth is he is subleasing HD’s studio unit.
Because of gas prices HD has been getting more clients at his Peter Francis Gerraci office on cicero (you know the building that used to be a taco bell) and with this influx of income he moved “up” and now is renting a 1 br garden apt on wilson and st louis so he can be closer to work.
remember you didnt here that from me.
Sad_at_Plaza440, I don’t track months of inventory since it is a fluid number open to manipulation that needs to be calculated daily.
I do track market times and new listings, though. Here are the condo/TH closings, average market times for April closings and new April listing totals:
year/closings/average MT days for closings/# of new listings
Lincoln Park
2007 149 104 271
2008 74 114 215
2009 60 139 223
2010 74 144 230
2011 46 152 197
Near North Side
2007 262 146 614
2008 231 114 579
2009 114 160 544
2010 182 170 619
2011 155 207 391
Note: The 2011 closing numbers are preliminary and will rise slightly as late info is added.
“G – this stalemate can’t go on forever”
It is certain to outlast your presence here. That is, if you are truly the “man of your word” that you claim to be?
G- but who will you have fun with then?
“Bob – sorry to rain on your parade, but you already “lose a bunch of money” on food, transportation, rent, clothes, vacation, etc. ”
So because I already “lose a bunch of money on food, transportation, rent, clothes, vacation, etc.”, which are budgeted items, this means I should be indifferent to spending much more on my housing and being less flexible being an owner versus a renter? I should increase my budget for housing to own a comparable unit because I am already spending money in other areas in my life? I am not quite following.
Bob – wait ten years and you will figure it out…
There have been RE bulls before you here, clio, and there will be more after, too. Nothing special about you, that’s for sure.
“Sure, if you can explain to my satisfaction what difference it would make?”
G, I see that we’ve touched on a sensitive issue for you.
Where real estate pundits (i.e., CC regulars) are willing and/or able to live is going to influence their opinions, for at least two reasons. First, there is the matter of pricing: someone from Manhattan might be shocked at how affordable nice places are in the very best locations in Chicago, whereas someone from a rust-belt suburb might be shocked to learn that people pay a half million dollars for a condo. Second, where one lives (assuming one has much choice in the matter) can say alot about lifestyle and priorities: close to the park/lakefront; close to the office; a big house; a condo with a view; family oriented, party oriented, sports oriented, same-sex oriented, or religiously oriented areas; etc.
I bet he lives in Hegewisch.
Buying Beats Renting in 80 percent of U.S. Cities
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Buying-Beats-Renting-in-80-usnews-1089844766.html
“I bet he lives in Hegewisch.”
Is this a Harry Potter reference? – because G IS living in a fantasy world
Hegewisch isnt the same since Phil Schmidt’s closed
“G, I see that we’ve touched on a sensitive issue for you.”
I don’t.
G, tell us what color your hair is too.
oh, and your zodiac sign
“because G IS living in a fantasy world”
Facts and data = fantasy?
Perhaps, before you are gone for good, you could point to a comment of mine that you determined to be “fantasy”? I’m just not seeing it.
Am I the only one on here who thinks the regulars should disclose where they live (not their address, but the general vicinity, within a couple of blocks or so)?
“Perhaps, before you are gone for good, you could point to a comment of mine that you determined to be “fantasy”? I’m just not seeing it.”
then take off your harry potter glasses and take a look at what is on the market. Then talk to actual buyers and real estate brokers and you will get a better picture of what is really going on and what are the true sentiments of real estate from people who are actually going to contribute and shape the market in the next few years.
CH, I’m sure you knew that those tasty frog legs were served in Hammond, IN. I was just talking about them to my kids on movie night this past weekend (featuring The Muppet Movie.)
I seem to remember people buying stocks in early 2009 being called knifecatchers too
its called value investing, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. At least with real estate value investing the worst case scenario is that you can live in the place
yeah, but that was just about the only place worth eating out while visiting family in hegewisch. though in summertime there was also the DQ.
“I’m sure you knew that those tasty frog legs were served in Hammond, IN. I was just talking about them to my kids on movie night this past weekend (featuring The Muppet Movie.)”
You are sick – and I’m sure that will be reflected in your kids’ future behavior…. please get some help – think of your kids – and be careful what you post – it could be considered a form of “child abuse/mental torture” to “tease” your kids like this. I am not kidding. Watch it.
Clio, you are truly the king of stretch.
“Then talk to actual buyers and real estate brokers and you will get a better picture of what is really going on and what are the true sentiments of real estate from people who are actually going to contribute and shape the market in the next few years.”
From everything you seem to be saying, they aren’t buying because prices are too high. On that, we agree. It’s when you state that they will have to buy at higher prices since that’s what sellers demand is when we disagree.
BTW, I am absolutely certain that I am more in touch with the “true sentiment of real estate blah blah” than you since I actually work in this field (as well as it being my hobby.)
“You are sick – and I’m sure that will be reflected in your kids’ future behavior…. please get some help – think of your kids – and be careful what you post – it could be considered a form of “child abuse/mental torture” to “tease” your kids like this. I am not kidding. Watch it.”
LOL. What teasing? Are you aware of the plot of The Muppet Movie?
My kids will be fine. We are a loving family that enjoys spending a lot of time together.
“Are you aware of the plot of The Muppet Movie?”
I thought it was about inter-species dating?
dont know why but i still get a laugh when miss piggy bends the metal bar in front of the construction workers when she sees kermy getting all touchy feely with the human waitress/designer.
now I am getting hungry and there are no DocHopper’s nearby.
@ Clio:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegewisch,_Chicago
It is definitely not a Harry Potter reference, as a fanatic Potter fan I would know : )
CH, Phil Schmidt’s and the Beach Cafe are gone, but there’s still Teibel’s if you’re feelin’ froggy.
From Clio –
“1. Life goes by way to fast – I just spent a long weekend in boston and went back to the places I used to visit in med school”
So now you’re a doctor too, in addition to everything else you’ve supposedly achieved?
“So now you’re a doctor too, in addition to everything else you’ve supposedly achieved?”
That’s never changed.
G: that data from April is interesting. Those would have been people who probably went into contract in February until mid-March or so though. So, one could argue that with the blizzard etc. there were less people looking for real estate in those few weeks. But I’m just trying to be generous with the analysis.
Clio- you keep saying there are no “deals”. But what IS a deal? You seem to think it’s the 1-bedroom for $40k in Lincoln Park (not in one of the high rises under distress) or the 2/2 in Lakeview for $150k.
But isn’t the single family home that last sold in 2005 for $1.5 million and is now listed at $1.2 million (and still not selling) a deal? What if it sells for $1 million? Seems like a pretty big drop to me.
What about the $800k duplex down condo that now sells for $550k? A deal or not?
To me, your definition of a “deal” always seems to be skewed (even in your certain zip codes.) A “deal” doesn’t necessarily mean cheap or low priced.
Also- the data is pretty much telling us that buyers in certain GZ zip codes are NOT buying at the current prices. It doesn’t matter if there are deals or not. They’re not buying until those prices come down. They are priced wrong. So there is still this hold out from the sellers who can’t come to terms with the fact that they’re going to “lose” 20% or more on the property. No matter how many times they re-list it etc.
In anonny’s “prime” neighborhood, I keep seeing the same properties listed (sometimes for years)- all with the same inflated prices. Clearly, it’s not working if it hasn’t sold in 2 years. Lower the price and it will sell. It’s not rocket science. But many sellers can’t lower (because then they’ll be underwater, have to do a short sale etc.) So the market goes nowhere until those sellers finally throw in the towel and lower the price (or the bank lowers it for them.)
“So the market goes nowhere”
Bri, speaking of which, I find humor in the fact that the market put up 2 back to back 0% change days immediately after chuk gave us the whole lesson on the new not your grandfathers market paradigm.
ha! ha! Yeah. That IS funny Ze. But I’m not going into that discussion again. No siree.
“I find humor in the fact that the market put up 2 back to back 0% change days immediately after chuk gave us the whole lesson on the new not your grandfathers market paradigm.”
You do? Why? Perhaps you don’t understand what I said.
You do? Why? Perhaps you don’t understand what I said.
I can search but I think it was a rather specific Yes to me asking in a confirming manner if you were stating that the market is more volatile than it used to be. Did I miss something.
In truth I find it funny because 2 straight 0 days is aberrational in itself, although it’s timing is priceless.
Well, I guess you didn’t understand.
Let me give you an example:
Market goes up 5% one week.
Market ends year up 5%.
Why hold for a year when you make the same gains in a week?
or
Why hold for 10 years when you can make the same gains in one year?
Point is, market goes up, market goes down, but its basically where it was 11 years ago.
Yes, you said that ALSO. I remember. I did understand BOTH.
“Why hold for a year when you make the same gains in a week?”
Chuk- I understand your argument but you’re assuming that with transaction costs (yes- it does cost money to trade that way) and taxes etc. that you will time it PERFECTLY.
Also- if you did what you say you did and sold when you’re up 5% in a week- you would have missed out on the largest rally of the last 70 years. Because the S&P hasn’t pulled back more than 15% in the last 2 years. So how can you time it? You cannot. Not even a genius investor can (and anyone who says they can- is lying.)
I know someone who was up 100% on a stock just 2 months ago. It makes sense that they would take some of that profit off the table (and I don’t blame them at all.) Of course the rally kept on going and now that same stock is up 144%. Of course, it could have declined in that time too. Again, no one can time it. But in a bull market- you’re going to leave too much on the table by “timing” it.
“Point is, market goes up, market goes down, but its basically where it was 11 years ago.”
The very definition of a bear stock market.
Same thing happened from 1966 to 1981. If you bought in 1966 you would have been at the same place in 1981. Wait a minute- that’s when both my great grandfather and grandmother owned stock! It was obviously “different” back then.
“Chuk- I understand your argument but you’re assuming that with transaction costs (yes- it does cost money to trade that way) and taxes etc. that you will time it PERFECTLY.”
Costs are trivial.
“Also- if you did what you say you did and sold when you’re up 5% in a week”
I’m not talking about buying and selling every week. I was just using a week as an example as to why the market is more volatile. I do not encourage trading every week or even every month, or sometimes even every year.
The point is, people are trained to only buy. Just as you dollar cost average in buying, you need to dollar cost average in SELLING. I assure you that is far superior to “buy and hold”. And also has been far superior even during your grandpa’s days.
If you took a minute to think about it, it makes perfect sense. Why would dollar cost averaging only work in ONE direction? It defies math.
Why would you ever need to sell? You get rich by the compounding of the dividends. That is it.
As Warren Buffett has said: the only time to sell is never.
But you do your method Chuk. Whatever works for you. You’re assuming you can time it. Selling at the top. Buying at the bottom. No one can time it that perfectly.
“Why would you ever need to sell?”
So you can buy MORE.
Buy at 10.
Sell at 12.
When it goes to 10 again, you can buy 20% more shares. That will destroy any compounding of dividends.
“You’re assuming you can time it. Selling at the top. Buying at the bottom. No one can time it that perfectly.”
Completely wrong. Obviously you didn’t follow what I said. There is little to no timing involved.
I know someone who was up 100% on a stock just 2 months ago. It makes sense that they would take some of that profit off the table
I hope you can laugh when you just completely contradicted yourself… kinda funny.
“As Warren Buffett has said: the only time to sell is never.
So why does he sell all the time and re-invest the money into different companies?
Also- how do you know when to sell anyway? Do you have a set “ding-ding” level?
So the stock doubles, do you sell? Because if you had done that with Wal-Mart in 1982, you would have left like 10,000% gain (or whatever it was) on the table over the next 18 years.
What about Kansas City Southern we talked about? Up 1400% over the last 20 years? Do you sell when you’re up 100% in 1993? Do you sell when it goes down 20%? What about when it went down 50% in 2008? Do you sell then?
Do you sell ALL your positions when we see a 20% decline in the overall markets? (considered a “bear market”?) Some stocks are down 20% just on an earnings miss. Do you sell then- after it has gone down already? Or do you get out before earnings and then get back in after the earnings announcement?
I don’t get it. The average investor will never win trying to time it or play that game.
Again- there’s a reason my little old grandmother is sitting on a very nice nestegg without ever even thinking about it (and doesn’t look at her statement for months at a time.) It’s, frankly, really easy.
“So why does he sell all the time and re-invest the money into different companies?”
He doesn’t sell very often. He did sell some ConocoPhillips (and sold some US Airways like 20 years ago which he called the biggest mistake of his investing life. Never invest in airlines!)
He still owns the original Geico shares that made him rich (and then bought the company outright.) He still owns his original Washington Post shares from 1972. He still owns his original Coca-Cola investment (also made him rich- also from the 1970s, I believe.)
His companies generate so much cash flow- he doesn’t need to sell stock investments to have the cash.
“I know someone who was up 100% on a stock just 2 months ago. It makes sense that they would take some of that profit off the table
I hope you can laugh when you just completely contradicted yourself… kinda funny.”
It makes sense for this friend. He’s a trader. I am a buy and hold. I have stocks up that much and I’ve never sold. But if you want to take the profit- then that’s fine. But, of course, he left 44% on the table versus the buy and hold who has not. But who knew? It could have easily have gone the other way and be up “only” 80% or whatnot and he would look like a genius.
“Also- how do you know when to sell anyway?”
How do you know when to buy? Are you familiar with math? Things work the same way if they have a + or a – sign on them. You are not buying 100% or selling 100% at once. As the market goes down, you buy more, as the market goes up, you sell more. Is that really so hard to “time”?
“I don’t get it.”
No, you don’t. And the fact is that is the reason why the public gets fleeced. They are like you, they don’t get it.
“Again- there’s a reason my little old grandmother is sitting on a very nice nestegg without ever even thinking about it”
Just as the sheep is happy to be left with a little wool. Meanwhile they just keep getting sheered over and over.
“Buy at 10.
Sell at 12.
When it goes to 10 again, you can buy 20% more shares. That will destroy any compounding of dividends.’
If it keeps going up, as it has over the last 2 years, then you can never get back in again. If it does what it did in 1982-2000- you would be sitting on the sidelines forever.
I love it that you think you can time it like that. No one can.
“He doesn’t sell very often”
Wrong.
“No, you don’t. And the fact is that is the reason why the public gets fleeced. They are like you, they don’t get it.”
No- you don’t get it. Like I said- my great grandfather was able to leave all 6 of his children stock. My grandmother will leave her children stock. All from buy and hold. Doing NOTHING.
The US stock market has been an enormous wealth generating machine. All you had to do was buy it and leave it there. Literally. It’s not hard to understand.
I don’t understand your “timing”. It doesn’t work in an up market.
“He doesn’t sell very often”
Wrong.”
Chuk- you’ve never read anything on Buffett have you? I said he sells sometimes. His portfolio is so big now he does rebalance positions. It’s just too massive not to. But he still owns his original positions in the key companies he loves.
But you wouldn’t get it. Buy and hold? That’s for morons!
I’ll stay a moron thanks. It’s worked well for me for the last 11 years.
chuk.. there is more than 1 right way. what she’s saying makes sense. Can use a touch up on the dividend thing, but totally makes sense. No idea why you are being so arrogant/stubborn about “your” way.
Here’s what Mr. Buffett said in 1996 to shareholders:
“We continue to make more money when snoring than when active. … [Y]ou simply want to acquire, at a sensible price, a business with excellent economics and able, honest management. Thereafter, you need only monitor whether these qualities are being preserved.”
“If it keeps going up, as it has over the last 2 years, then you can never get back in again. ”
And that’s where you’re confused. We are in a new market. Things don’t just gradually go up. They go up too fast, so they have to correct, so that they can continue to go up again.
Take XYZ stock in your grandma’s day
10 in 1966
11 in 1967
12 in 1968
13 in 1969
Now look at XYZ in today’s market
10 in January
11 in February
12 in March
13 in April
So, what can it do? It can’t just keep going up like that, or it will be 1000 in a few years. So, you end up with a chart this looks like a cycle as opposed to a sloping line up.
“If it does what it did in 1982-2000”
As I said, that was a different world. I am only talking 1998 and up.
“I love it that you think you can time it like that. No one can.”
You still don’t follow. Are you timing the market with your buys?
The public only gets fleeced because they do NOT hold. The average amount of time in a mutual fund is less than 3 years. When a market correction comes, individual investors jump out. If they bought and sat there for 30 years in a well diversified portfolio – they would be fine (even if they bought an Enron or whatever.) It would allow them the time to ride out the bull and bear markets, all the while reinvesting the dividends along the way.
That is why time is on the side of 401k investors. I feel badly for those in the 50s right now who haven’t saved enough. Time is not on their side to ride out this bear market and see the compounding of a bull before they retire.
“chuk.. there is more than 1 right way.”
Sure, but they both aren’t equal. There are 2 ways I can drive my kids to school. One way has lots of windy roads and takes twice as long. But it still gets me there.
“No idea why you are being so arrogant/stubborn about “your” way.”
Because my way results in better average annual returns while REDUCING risk. Which is the whole goal of investing.
“I’ll stay a moron thanks. It’s worked well for me for the last 11 years.”
No it hasn’t. You are just naive enough to believe that it has. Again, just because you are “up” doesn’t mean that it worked “well”.
Oh good lord.. things do not move any different than they did before. 28-40 was more volatile than this past decade. Most action is in the range it has been forever. never ever changed!
Chuk- you are wrong! Massive market corrections happened in the 1970s. We had the super bear of 1972-1974 where the S&P was down over 40% in those two years alone. Then it rebounded for a year or two, then it sold off in like 1977 then it rebounded again etc. etc.
And so did her individual stocks. This is why everyone threw in the towel by 1981 and Businessweek declared equities “dead.” You couldn’t make money in a bear market because of the volatility (except through dividends which approached nearly 7% on average by the end of that bear.)
Go read some books on the stock market history. I implore you. Please do it. It will open up your mind to new possibilities.
“When a market correction comes, individual investors jump out. If they bought and sat there for 30 years in a well diversified portfolio – they would be fine”
Ah, you’re getting warmer. So, if the correct thing to do when the market goes down is to BUY, then the correct thing to do when the market goes up is to ______.
“Oh good lord.. things do not move any different than they did before.”
But they do. And repeating over and over that they don’t doesn’t make it true.
Ah, you’re getting warmer. So, if the correct thing to do when the market goes down is to BUY, then the correct thing to do when the market goes up is to ______.
BUY MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!! YIPEE KI YO!!! BUY MORE!!!!
BUT SELL ON THE WAY DOWN THOUGH…. SELL…SELL..SELL!
If the kid don’t get the GI Joe with the kung foo grip.. hell with it!!
Try this exercise. Invert your statement below:
“When a market correction comes, individual investors jump out. If they bought and sat there for 30 years in a well diversified portfolio – they would be fine”
“But they do. And repeating over and over that they don’t doesn’t make it true.”
So you are saying now that the past decade has been more volatile than the late 20’s to 40?
Y/N?
on a daily move basis, of course.
Check out the 1970s during that bear market.
I looked at GE’s share price in early January fron 1970 to 1980.
1970: $76
1971: $93
1972: $63
1973: $73
1974: $62
1975: $33
1976: $46
1977: $55
1978: $48
1979: $47
1980: $48
You can really see the ravages of the super bear of 1972-1974 in the January prices. 1974 was NOT a good year. That’s a 50% haircut in 1974! Wow.
“just sticking up for the building”
The building just south of Wash Sq. Park which faces the Newberry Library is a tad better than 33 W. Huron which faces Whole Foods. 33 W. Huron is the poor-man’s 55 West Delaware.
ah, that’s funny. at first I thought this was that building
“Sabrina on May 3rd, 2011 at 10:00 pm
I love it that you think you can time it like that. No one can.”
Ha. This argument happened at the top of the market almost to the day. Classic.
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^GSPC+Interactive#chart1:symbol=^gspc;range=6m;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined
If you compare housing to the stock market, people that were leveraged in the stock market at 5-1 (20% down) just lost their entire “down payment” in a month.