Get a 4-Bedroom SFH for the Price of a Duplex Down in Lakeview: 3833 N. Ravenswood
This 4-bedroom single family home at 3833 N. Ravenswood in Lakeview has been on the market since August 2011. (The Koenig sign is for the lot next door which no longer appears to be on the market.)
In that time, the price has not been reduced.
Built in 1907 on a smaller than average lot of 25×108, it actually still does have space for a 2-car garage.
3 of the 4 bedrooms are on the second floor with the fourth in the lower level along with a family room and laundry room.
There are 3 bathrooms, with one on each of the floors.
The kitchen has cherry cabinets, stainless steel appliances and what looks like stone (granite?) counter tops.
The house has central air.
Yes, those are the Metra tracks across the street. But it is just a block from the Trader Joe’s and is a little over 2 blocks to the Brown Line El stop at Irving Park.
The house is listed $65,000 over the 2007 purchase price at $640,000.
Will this house be able to get a premium to the 2007 price?
And compared to duplex downs or townhouses in the neighborhood, is this a better deal?
Jayne Alofs at Jameson Sothebys has the listing. See the pictures here.
3833 N. Ravenswood: 4 bedrooms, 3 baths, 2 car garage, no square footage listed
- Sold in August 1988 for $150,000
- Sold in October 1998 (no price listed)
- Sold in November 2007 for $575,000
- Originally listed in August 2011 for $640,000
- Currently still listed for $640,000
- Taxes of $7497
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 20×17 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 10×9 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 12×11 (second floor)
- Bedroom #4: 11×11 (lower level)
- Family room: 19×18 (lower level)
This whole area is crazy. Why would someone pay 600 to live across from a train almost 3 miles from the lake. And paying a premium to 2007 which was basically the top of the market. Who knows what it’s worth today or 1 year from now but 5 years or 7 years from now it can’t look good.
Nice small house, probably would sell for $550,000 – $580,000 range to a content buyer, given 2007 price, Metra-facing parcel, and short lot. Viewing pictures, house seems too small for current owner, and families viewing house may be discouraged by layout. Nanny-in-the-basement bedroom shouldn’t count as a bedroom, and I’m not a fan of the basement familyroom arrangement.
“Nanny-in-the-basement bedroom shouldn’t count as a bedroom”
Its fine for the guest room–used maybe 20-40 nights a year.
Basement looks short in the pix. Furniture layout on the main floor shows limitations of layout. Allocation of space on second floor is non-optimal–no master bath, huge master bedroom, tiny third bedroom, only three bedrooms.
Still, as Alan C correctly noted, there arent very many 4/3s on the market now for under $700k, and this is by far the least weird one in this part of town.
“Still, as Alan C correctly noted, there arent very many 4/3s on the market now for under $700k”
Yes, but I have to think that the supply will be changing soon. The demand will change as well, of course. And then there’s the matter of price. Because they could all be interrelated. Will prob have to spend some time studying it.
Lack of deals makes for interesting pricing.
There is nothing crazy about this area.
I don’t know. Area seems to be crazy to me. One of the few markets to actually go up from it’s peak. I guess that means this is it’s peak or maybe it means it just continues to go up forever. Have to love 2035 W. Hutchinson. Buy it for 660,000. in August with mold, puts probably 100 into it. Stages it with some furniture and picks up a quick 350. Not a bad 4 months.
“Why would someone pay 600 to live across from a train almost 3 miles from the lake.”
There’s that “the lake” thing again. Actually it’s a short drive/ride to Montrose Beach area with lots of parking. You can walk to Brown Line CTA from subject property. Location isn’t perfect but it is functional.
“There’s that “the lake” thing again. Actually it’s a short drive/ride to Montrose Beach area with lots of parking. You can walk to Brown Line CTA from subject property. Location isn’t perfect but it is functional.”
Right it’s what, a 7 minute drive?
Joe, sorry, when you wrote crazy, I thought you were referring to it being a shitty area. You’re referring to pricing. I just saw that on the Hutchison house. Amazing. My wife and I looked at it, but the mold was too much.
You can also catch the Metra a few blocks north on Lawrence. If the walk is too much for you, the Sears parking lot is available at least until the Mariano’s grocery store is built.
Yep, way too over-priced. But there is a “niche market” of people who actually LIKE living near this Metra track. They cultivate gardens along the banks during summer and join in “community clean-up days” during spring and fall.
We Realtors always chuckle when we go to open houses and go down the basement to the “nanny bedroom/bath” and “family room.” Our instincts tell us that once the deal is closed and the mortgage in place, the owners will add a small kitchen to the big room and rent out the place as an illegal apartment.
“Have to love 2035 W. Hutchinson. Buy it for 660,000. in August with mold, puts probably 100 into it. Stages it with some furniture and picks up a quick 350. Not a bad 4 months.”
That’s really a different area. That’s Coonley and *if* everything has been fully dealt with and *if* it’s well constructed, that’s kinda what the market is right now in Coonley.
I’ll also note that the subject property has been on since August and hasn’t sold yet.
Some of us like to run and ride our bike to the lake. We go to the lake often. Not 4 times a year. It’s one of the reasons we like to live in the city. I doubt many people who go the lake a lot take the bus or the el there or even drive there for that fact. Certainly we drive there more in the winter. Can’t run or bike there with sleds.
DZ the property is under contract
“DZ the property is under contract”
I meant that 3833 Ravenswood hadn’t sold yet (and that the pending sale of Hutchison was not unexpected, with the caveats noted, given Coonley).
$575 tops. Short lot, short ceilings in basement. Good pick up sub $600 if you are okay being across form the Metra.
HERE IS A MUCH BETTER ALTERNATIVE FOR THE SAME PRICE:
-SIMILAR LOOKING HOUSE BUT:
– much better location
– much better schools
– much better shape
“Nanny-in-the-basement bedroom shouldn’t count as a bedroom”
why?
clio- They are 25 miles apart I dont think that whoever buys either home will be interested in the other property. Thanks though
sorry about that DZ.
The Hutchinson property is a rarity. Great opportunity. Wish I had done it. But that and this market still doesn’t seem to make much economic sense. Coonley is a good school but it is a CPS school and if your kids are in the gifted program they can live anywhere. Paying 1 million to live near Coonley near Irving and between Western and Damen just seems strange to me. Drive up and down the street. Despite the building going on it just doesn’t look like a million dollar neighborhood to me.
And this property. 600 to live on Ravenswood directly across the street from the train. And 10% higher from it’s sale in 2007. Doesn’t make sense but it only takes 1 buyer. And as long as that market holds and people want to get in who knows?
For the love of the gods clio, chill with the Hinsdale links.
yeah quit with the self promotion. Speaking of, don’t forget to click through the ad links, Mrs Icarus needs a new house 😀
http://runninggod.blogspot.com/2012/01/here-thar-be-dragons.html
People who are considering Ravenswood are unlikely to turn at the drop of a hat and say, “Wait, what about Hinsdale!”
“People who are considering Ravenswood are unlikely to turn at the drop of a hat and say, “Wait, what about Hinsdale!””
…that is because they don’t know any better……
it is a well known fact that people stick to areas close to where they grew up without even CONSIDERING any alternatives. if they knew about the alternatives, many/most would leave. That was the point of posting that particular property – seriously, what sane person in their right mind would choose the subject POS over the Hinsdale house? Nobody…… period.
I would love to see the stats on people who buy homes priced at $500K and up in Chicago who actually send their kids to non-magnet public schools…. or how many families making over $100K send their kids to public schools.
This page seems to indicate that 86% of CPS students are low income: http://www.cps.edu/about_cps/at-a-glance/pages/stats_and_facts.aspx
I just don’t think the buyers for houses like this would send their kids to the neighborhood CPS.
Jenny, your stats are completely over generalized. Go to the CPS site and go school by school.
“Coonley is a good school but it is a CPS school and if your kids are in the gifted program they can live anywhere.”
Yeah but a (perceived) first rate neighborhood school is still highly desired. And if your kid is in Coonley gifted, you know you can send their siblings there as well, even if they don’t test in.
“Drive up and down the street. Despite the building going on it just doesn’t look like a million dollar neighborhood to me.”
I’m sympathetic to this view. There have been a ridiculous number of $1MM plus sales there though.
“This page seems to indicate that 86% of CPS students are low income: http://www.cps.edu/about_cps/at-a-glance/pages/stats_and_facts.aspx”
I’m hoping it’s not too late to get a refund on your education.
37.5% of kids at Coonley are low income with class sizes of between 28-31. I wouldn’t want to send my kids there: http://schools.chicagotribune.com/school/coonley-elementary-school_chicago#class
“37.5% of kids at Coonley are low income with class sizes of between 28-31. I wouldn’t want to send my kids there”
Dear god.
Wow, Jenny can’t even look at map to figure out which school, either.
Did anyone see 30 Rock last night? I think that Jenny needs a Jenna Maroney sidekick to ignore all her negativity while soaking up all the attention.
“There have been a ridiculous number of $1MM plus sales there though.”
I agree. People do buy them and in the end that’s all that matters. I just wonder what the house someone pays 1 million for in that area will be worth 10 years from now. The government is doing everything it can to inflate but can’t seem to get much lift.
‘Yeah but a (perceived) first rate neighborhood school is still highly desired. And if your kid is in Coonley gifted, you know you can send their siblings there as well, even if they don’t test in.’
I don’t think this is true about the siblings. Also I appreciate you wrote perceived. I assume most of the teachers who taught there 5 years ago (perceived bad school) teach there now (perceived great school). Personally I think it was then and is now a good school with dedicated teachers doing their best.
OK, jenny, I’ll bite… Given that 90+% of students at Coonley meet or exceed testing standards, why do you care if a third of the kids are poor?
Here’s a thought: when you are ready for kids, get their room all set up in a secure portion of the house, then encase that room in plastic. Nothing gets in that you don’t put in there. Nothing gets out that you don’t take out. Don’t invite the poors or the browns to your home and your precious little ones won’t be exposed.
Careful about the help though. That cleaning lady looks like she might make below 40K a year. Imagine what would happen if jenny jr. was exposed to such filth…
…that is because they don’t know any better……
“it is a well known fact that people stick to areas close to where they grew up without even CONSIDERING any alternatives. if they knew about the alternatives, many/most would leave. That was the point of posting that particular property – seriously, what sane person in their right mind would choose the subject POS over the Hinsdale house? Nobody…… period.”
Right. People in the market for $660K homes are totally unaware that they also have the option of living in Hinsdale. That’s the only possible explanation, it couldn’t be that they WANT TO LIVE IN THE CITY, NOT IN THE SUBURBS.
God you are an idiot.
Re: basement bedroom: look at window in photo; doesn’t meet code. not a legal bedroom.
Re: schools, demographics, etc: how many cc posters actually have elementary school kids? In grades 5 – 8? High schoolers? Kids needing LD/Special Ed services? I think alot of catty comments regarding posters’ concerns are coming from folks who haven’t had those school experiences yet. Seems most cc posters defending CPS have babies, toddlers, and maybe a child just entering school-years.
I think it’s really easy to “meet standards.” I look at “exceeds” standards. I would go so far as to say that most kids from middle class homes will easily exceed standards.
My thought is that poor students bring down the school as a whole for a variety of issues – mostly stemming from parents who don’t have the time or inclination to help their kids learn.
“Right. People in the market for $660K homes are totally unaware that they also have the option of living in Hinsdale. That’s the only possible explanation, it couldn’t be that they WANT TO LIVE IN THE CITY, NOT IN THE SUBURBS.”
Living in Ravenswood is NOT like “living in the city” moron. The neighborhood is far enough away from downtown and all the amenities that the city has to offer that it may as well be a suburb. You can get downtown from Hinsdale in 17 minutes on the train. How long does it take to get downtown from this POS property (w/ the million stops). Yeah, I thought so – so stfu!!
“Re: schools, demographics, etc: how many cc posters actually have elementary school kids? In grades 5 – 8? High schoolers? Kids needing LD/Special Ed services? I think alot of catty comments regarding posters’ concerns are coming from folks who haven’t had those school experiences yet. Seems most cc posters defending CPS have babies, toddlers, and maybe a child just entering school-years.”
Architect, you’re probably right. I know that, when my kid was under 2, my feelings about Lincoln elem were nothing but positive. Only a year later, my feelings are changing, solely because of what we’ve learned about the over-crowding issue (every current Lincoln parent we’ve met absolutely loves the place, but all acknowledge – some more forthrightly and gravely than others – that there’s a numbers issue that must be addressed). We’re now seriously hoping for (j-K) admission to Latin or Parker, even though that would be a real financial stretch. Failing that, I guess we’ll be joining the fundraising and organizing movement to expand the existing Lincoln elem facilities (or move down to Ogden and hope that it continues on its current path).
In the event that we have a need for LD/special services, we will move if necessary (be it to a burb, however far flung, or South Dakota, or whatever).
Architect: what’s your point, exactly? Do you really think the people making “concerned” comments have all experienced the CPS system?
In my experience, the voices that say “avoid CPS at all costs” far, far outnumber the voices saying, “you can send your kids to some CPS schools”. 10 to 1. Maybe more. And, in my experience, most of those people don’t even have kids or live in the suburbs and are trying to get you to move to the suburbs too.
IOW, most opinions I’ve seen on CPS, no matter which “side”, don’t have real world experience with the system. And most of them are grossly misinformed. Take jenny, for example…do she have kids? Has she experienced a CPS school? Has that stopped her from saying she’d never consider Coonley?
I’m not saying that a good CPS school is the obvious choice. But people who have actually talked to parents in those schools and done some basic research into populations and testing are far more informed than the average person shooting their mouth off about CPS. And a lot of them end up deciding that CPS is, for them, at least good enough.
RE: schools.
Don’t fucking fool ourselves. Anyone who was really concerned w/ schools wouldn’t be considering this house (or any other house in the city). They would move to new trier, hinsdale, naperville, etc. – anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves. Education is NOT their top priority (sure, it may be one, but it is not their TOP priority).
clio: “Living in Ravenswood is NOT like “living in the city” moron. The neighborhood is far enough away from downtown and all the amenities that the city has to offer that it may as well be a suburb. You can get downtown from Hinsdale in 17 minutes on the train. How long does it take to get downtown from this POS property (w/ the million stops). Yeah, I thought so – so stfu!!”
Shut up. Just stop talking. You look ridiculous.
“RE: schools.
Don’t fucking fool ourselves. Anyone who was really concerned w/ schools wouldn’t be considering this house (or any other house in the city). They would move to new trier, hinsdale, naperville, etc. – anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves. Education is NOT their top priority (sure, it may be one, but it is not their TOP priority).”
Shut up. Just stop talking. You look ridiculous.
I can keep this up all day.
I have 3 kids in CPS, non magnet. You’d be surprised how many parents of “poor” stundents are involved. I’m sure it’s school to school, but I have very few complaints.
To expound a bit on why I find Clio so fucking ridiculous…
What are the two biggest factors in whether your kid will succeed in school, get a great education and be a high earner? Nature and nurture. Is your kid inherently smart? How much of his/her education is coming from their home vs. their peers and school? Do mommy and daddy treat him/her right? Do mommy and daddy have connections in higher education and/or business that will give their kid a leg up?
Those are the important questions. Sure, you can work around a lot of those points by paying out the nose for professional help or moving to a school system that caters to your kids special needs. And, depending on your kid’s needs, one school system or another might be detrimental to your kid realizing their fullest potential. But in the end it is all nature and nurture with parents playing the biggest role.
It appears about 45% of Coonley students exceed state standards and 45% meet. If you break it down by race, whites are 67% exceeds and 25% meets. Hispanics are 21% exceeds and 68% meets. There aren’t enough blacks, asians others to report on.
Come on TftInChi, this is CC, reasoning and logic aren’t allowed.
Vlajos: that never stops me from beating my head against the wall until all sense has been bludgeoned away. At this point, I’m a comment away from raving lunacy…
“But in the end it is all nature and nurture with parents playing the biggest role.”
Then why all the constant discussions on schools? Huh?!! Oh yeah, this is “hypocrite chatter” where rules only apply to a few and logic doesn’t apply to anyone. TftinChi – I got some great recommendations for institutions….in fact, I am posting from one right now…we could be roomies
“I would go so far as to say that most kids from middle class homes will easily exceed standards. ”
So now your saying the school doesn’t even matter? Don’t worry, Jenny. There are plenty of gated communities out in the burbs for you.
“Our instincts tell us that once the deal is closed and the mortgage in place, the owners will add a small kitchen to the big room and rent out the place as an illegal apartment.”
Reminds of the movie The Fugitive with Harrison Ford. Maybe anon(tfo) can track down where they filmed that scene where he rents the room out from the Polish woman and her son.
Don’t you think the majority of the education at an elementary level comes from the parents and family and which school they attend has little relevance.
“Don’t you think the majority of the education at an elementary level comes from the parents and family and which school they attend has little relevance.”
I think this mostly correct. I’m certain if the parents don’t care, it doesn’t matter what school you go to though.
“My thought is that poor students bring down the school as a whole for a variety of issues – mostly stemming from parents who don’t have the time or inclination to help their kids learn.”
Poverty and low IQ is correlated, and low IQ is one of the major causes of poverty also. The kids of poor parents inherit traits from their parents, IQ being one of them, hair color another, eye color, etc.
“Don’t you think the majority of the education at an elementary level comes from the parents and family…”
Yes.
“…and which school they attend has little relevance.”
No.
“Then why all the constant discussions on schools? Huh?!! Oh yeah, this is “hypocrite chatter” where rules only apply to a few and logic doesn’t apply to anyone. TftinChi – I got some great recommendations for institutions….in fact, I am posting from one right now…we could be roomies”
Not all schools are equal. I’d never say that. What I will say is that over some threshold, the quality of the school stops being as important as the kid’s upbringing and inherent abilities. Sure, if you send your well-adjusted, bright kid into a war zone every day where their safety is a concern and disruptions outnumber learning activities, they will face a lot of challenges in realizing their potential. But take away a lot of those factors, add in mostly concerned parents and kids that are there to learn without significant discipline problems and those fancy instructional methods and high paid teachers probably matter a lot less. This isn’t controversial…
I can only imagine what some of you think about preschool.
If I had a kid, it would be more about the school’s philosophy than anything else. My problem with public and Catholic schools is that they don’t focus on each kid’s individuality and helping them discover their unique talents. In the end, if I had a kid, I would definitely go with a private school that I found shared my values. I would want my kid to be in a happy environment where he or she where learning would be up to him or her. Elementary school matters in that it partially shapes a kid’s outlook on life. In a strict Catholic school or a public school that just teaches to the state tests, creativity is stifled.
My main question is whether I would think my kid would enjoy going to school at any particular institution and the likely answer for Catholic or public would be “no.”
I’ve never been bitten by a cobra but I know that it would suck. I don’t need to have children currently in CPS to know that it probably sucks. Yes, it varies school by school, but outside of a handful of schools in a small sliver of land on the north and northwest side (most of whom have rich students or the children of city workers) it is common knowledge and pretty well accepted that CPS sucks. To sit here and argue otherwise is pretty much completely wrong and against the logical and empirical evidence, and totally violates common sense. CPS has sucked for decades and decades and a few thousand parents stuck in their homes forced to send their the local CPS isn’t going to make any significant change in the system. I find any arguments to the contrary ridiculous, absurd and pointless.
“If I had a kid”
Please don’t.
“it would be more about the school’s philosophy than anything else. ”
Really, because up until now, you tried to cite poor people and state standards as reasons for school decisions.
“My main question is whether I would think my kid would enjoy going to school at any particular institution and the likely answer for Catholic or public would be “no.”
How can you know what your fictional child would enjoy?
“Only a year later, my feelings are changing, solely because of what we’ve learned about the over-crowding issue (every current Lincoln parent we’ve met absolutely loves the place, but all acknowledge – some more forthrightly and gravely than others – that there’s a numbers issue that must be addressed).”
What’s going on with the takeover of Lasalle? Is that permanently off the table? Also, what are class sizes there? I thought anon commented that class sizes seemed lower at Lincoln than elsewhere. Are Lincoln parents just fussier?
No doubt. I’ve met people driving their kid to/from Hamilton in Lake View from ROGERS PARK. These parents are hella more concerned about education than the schmoes like clio will ever understand.
“I have 3 kids in CPS, non magnet. You’d be surprised how many parents of “poor” stundents are involved. I’m sure it’s school to school, but I have very few complaints.”
“I don’t think this is true about the siblings.”
I meant that if you had a kid who was in or got into the gifted program at Coonley, your other kids could go into the neighborhood (not gifted) program there.
“37.5% of kids at Coonley are low income with class sizes of between 28-31. I wouldn’t want to send my kids there: http://schools.chicagotribune.com/school/coonley-elementary-school_chicago#class”
That you wouldn’t want to send your (hypothetical) kids there is your personal preference. The claim that parents with (some) means wouldn’t send their kids to Coonley or other similar neighborhood schools is ludicrous. Why do you think people focus so much on the neighborhood school, why does virtually every Coonley/Bell/Blaine/etc listing prominently feature the school, why did Coonley take off, etc?
I do think the percent of low income families can be indicative of the desirability of the school for neighborhood families in neighborhoods that are generally well off. Note though that Coonley is in transition and that there are also gifted students there (who I would guess would tend to have a greater percentage of low income).
I grew up in Chicago and everyone went to the neighborhood elementary school. Now there isn’t one kid on our block who attends the same school. It is kind of strange. 1 goes to LaSalle. 1 is in gifted. 1 goes to classical. 1 goes to Hawthorne. 1 goes to private. 1 goes to neighborhood. 1 goes to Waldorf. Even the ones that go to magnet go to various magnets. Other than the gifted being accelerated and the Waldorf teaching reading later it doesn’t seem to matter. And in the long run it certainly won’t matter. It’s the family and the genes. Later when parents don’t have the knowledge and depth in areas it matters. But at this level I don’t see it.
HD: “CPS has sucked for decades and decades and a few thousand parents stuck in their homes forced to send their the local CPS isn’t going to make any significant change in the system”
You are ignoring a couple of things. First, parents are moving into the boundaries of good CPS schools. That isn’t conjecture. Second, the prices of places in good school boundaries are higher than those literally right across the street in the boundaries of worse schools. That isn’t conjecture either.
I’ll also point out that, outside of a throw away statement, you are painting CPS with a pretty broad brush and it’s proponents like children.
Again, TftInChi you are using reasoning and logic…..
Tftinchi – I preemptively addressed your response in my statement above. No need for me to elaborate further.
HD, I don’t see anyone here defending the entire CPS school system. You made that leap.
You pretty much agree with what has been said here, only with a tinge of condescending attitude.
“I meant that if you had a kid who was in or got into the gifted program at Coonley, your other kids could go into the neighborhood (not gifted) program there. ”
I believe that’s only if there is room but there is no guarantee. I might be wrong but that’s the way it was explained to me.
“I believe that’s only if there is room but there is no guarantee. I might be wrong but that’s the way it was explained to me.”
You’re wrong if the family in question lives within the coonley boundaries (which is the hypothetical that started the discussion). If you live in coonley you get to go to the coonley neighborhood component, like anyone else living in coonley.
If you live outside coonley and your kid gets into gifted, you might be able to get another kid into the neighborhood program if there’s room (although I’m not sure there are supposed to be any preferences for that sibling versus other kids that want to get in), but that’s probably unlikely (or will be soon) at coonley.
“No doubt. I’ve met people driving their kid to/from Hamilton in Lake View from ROGERS PARK. These parents are hella more concerned about education than the schmoes like clio will ever understand.”
No – they are like you – fucking idiots. They could save themselves the trouble and danger and expense of having to drive to a 2nd rate school by just moving to the suburbs. I really don’t think you morons realize how much better/safer suburban schools are (and don’t bring up the one or two which have bad reputations – although I am sure that even those schools are better than the average CPS).
Bottom line is that if you live in the city and are unable to afford a private school, your TOP priority is NOT education for your kids – sorry, that is the truth and the truth sometimes hurt. I gotta go now and kick someone’s ass…
“If you live outside coonley and your kid gets into gifted, you might be able to get another kid into the neighborhood program if there’s room (although I’m not sure there are supposed to be any preferences for that sibling versus other kids that want to get in), but that’s probably unlikely (or will be soon) at coonley.”
$12m TIF funded expansion coming soon, so there will be a lot more room soon.
“$12m TIF funded expansion coming soon, so there will be a lot more room soon.”
Good use of TIF at least.
Whether its Clio or not, how does someone go to UI med school and then Harvard residency, Stanfurd fellowship. I’d think that the public school taint–clearly evidencing the moron-idiocy of either the student or his/her parents–would put that person on both schools blacklist.
“how does someone go to UI med school and then Harvard residency, Stanfurd fellowship”
I gotta think the uic thing is a mistake. At least I hope so.
“$12m TIF funded expansion coming soon, so there will be a lot more room soon.”
Room enough for a non-trivial number of non-neighborhood kids? When’s space likely to be usable?
If the suburbs are really so great, why don’t you explain wtf you and all the other suburban transplants are doing in Chicago, then.
I love “the danger” of Chicago part, though. Call me reckless, but I just can’t stay east of Western Ave.
“No – they are like you – fucking idiots. They could save themselves the trouble and danger and expense of having to drive to a 2nd rate school by just moving to the suburbs. I really don’t think you morons realize how much better/safer suburban schools are (and don’t bring up the one or two which have bad reputations – although I am sure that even those schools are better than the average CPS).
Bottom line is that if you live in the city and are unable to afford a private school, your TOP priority is NOT education for your kids – sorry, that is the truth and the truth sometimes hurt. I gotta go now and kick someone’s ass…”
“Bottom line is that if you live in the city and are unable to afford a private school, your TOP priority is NOT education for your kids – sorry, that is the truth and the truth sometimes hurt. I gotta go now and kick someone’s ass…”
Yeah, this pretty much explains so many Koreans moving up to Deerfield/Northbrook (go visit NBK Court mall), even though they could choose to live much closer to their dry cleaning businesses, etc. They are willing to put with with a longer commute, to live in better school districts, although they probably don’t know about the lack of diversity there, due to self-segregating jewish-americans, they’ll figure that out once they get there. I think it was JMM who suggested that those white parents still in the city are doing it because they don’t want to give up quick access to bars and nightlife, etc. So, clio’s right, unless you can afford the Catholic or private schools, you’re probably short-changing your kids somewhat? I guess there’s something to be said for raising your kids with “street smarts” versus raising some idiot john hughes-type suburban Deerfield brat wearing whatever trendy teen clothes are marketed at the mall?
Helmethofer – the place for you is australia. 30,000,000 white european descendents on a huge island all to themselves (except for 450,000 of Aboriginal descent that they try not to think about). They’re surrounded by literally billions of brown people who will do anything to get into the country; and when they do get there, they put them into immigration detention centers in the center of the country for years at a time before shipping them home. Sounds like paradise for you. Great weather, surfing, put some shrimp on the barbie, lots of manly things like mining and stuff, lots of money. YOu should move there. It’s the paradise you’re looking for.
“Room enough for a non-trivial number of non-neighborhood kids? When’s space likely to be usable?”
Probably not, more people will move into the area.
If you look at the 3rd grade testing for Coonley the Exceeds rate for 2011 is 68%. There are a lot of other turn around schools in CPS that have much higher testing scores in the lower grades than the upper. The schools are providing similar scores to some of the top suburbs while providing some actual diversity, and GASP, exposure to lower socio economic tiers. Many people value that and want to stay in the city. That is why people are flocking there.
“If the suburbs are really so great, why don’t you explain wtf you and all the other suburban transplants are doing in Chicago, then.”
Huh? The city of Chicago is a great place to visit and have fun in – not a great place to live (unless you have a lot of money). Me (and the rest of the smart people), live a peaceful life in the burbs during the week and then create havoc in the city on weekends (only to return to our pristine and untouched suburbs on sunday night and leave you schmucks to clean up our mess)!!!!
This is why the smarter-than-you people just don’t hang out in the pitiful meat markets in Lincoln Park and River North.
Nice try, though.
“Huh? The city of Chicago is a great place to visit and have fun in – not a great place to live (unless you have a lot of money). Me (and the rest of the smart people), live a peaceful life in the burbs during the week and then create havoc in the city on weekends (only to return to our pristine and untouched suburbs on sunday night and leave you schmucks to clean up our mess)!!!!”
homedelete: The Australia you are referring to does not exist anymore (except maybe in magnificent, unspoiled, Perth because of its isolation), the Aussie culture you’re talking about has been targeted for elimination by the multi-culti types that have worked America into its present condition. The process there is too already advanced. Today Australia is dealing with Cronulla riots, not some First World European-peopled uptopia….. like the paradise Southern California was once was. You think clio likes SoCal now, imagine it in its prime.
“You think clio likes SoCal now, imagine it in its prime.”
When was the SoCal “prime” that overlapped with tolerance of non-whites?
“Whether its Clio or not, how does someone go to UI med school and then Harvard residency, Stanfurd fellowship”
This is exactly what I mean when I say chicago is full of idiots. Do you know that most people I talk with don’t know what U. of C. is – they think it is UIC. They have never heard of U. of C., don’t know where it is, what it is, etc. It is so irritating that I have to go to another state/coast/country for people to know where I went to school and what is the difference between UIC and U. of C. – all of you deserve to live with each other!!
Re. school quality, our younger son, who’s 8, has a few behavioral issues and I’ve been very impressed with how our local public school here on the North Shore has handled things so far. They’ve worked very closely with us on a plan for him. At one point, my wife and I were in a room meeting with about 8 people from the school, including the principle, to discuss possible strategies. To me, it’s worth it to live in the burbs for this kind of personal attention. Perhaps a CPS school would also provide, I don’t know.
My older son is in 6th grade and my younger is in 2nd grade, so I’ve had plenty of experience watching my kids getting educated, and I agree with Jenny’s statement, which I’ve pasted below:
“Elementary school matters in that it partially shapes a kid’s outlook on life. In a strict Catholic school or a public school that just teaches to the state tests, creativity is stifled.”
I recall you mentioned you are poor yourself so were you BSing or you want your poor kid to go to school with rich kids but other poor kids do not have the right?
“I think it’s really easy to “meet standards.” I look at “exceeds” standards. I would go so far as to say that most kids from middle class homes will easily exceed standards.
My thought is that poor students bring down the school as a whole for a variety of issues – mostly stemming from parents who don’t have the time or inclination to help their kids learn.”
What is your source? Also how do you exactly relate IQ to performance in school? IQ is only a good rough indicator nothing more. For instance breastfed babies have on average an IQ of 8 points or so higher than formula fed ones. Does this mean most kids in industrial countries were breastfeeding is rare are performing below the kids in less develop parts of the world? Or you only use stats to prove your rhetoric?
“Poverty and low IQ is correlated, and low IQ is one of the major causes of poverty also. The kids of poor parents inherit traits from their parents, IQ being one of them, hair color another, eye color, etc.”
“[clio being clio]”
I was talking about the doctor who HD claimed was you, whose *every* online bio sez he went to univ of Illinois for med school. Either it is true, or he is very sloppy about maintaining his online resume, even with his hospital group–obviously, he has less control over all the other websites.
Or are you saying that HD had it right, but the hospital bio has(had?) it wrong.
“homedelete: The Australia you are referring to does not exist anymore (except maybe in magnificent, unspoiled, Perth because of its isolation), the Aussie culture you’re talking about has been targeted for elimination by the multi-culti types that have worked America into its present condition.”
I lived out there for 7 months.. Didn’t see too many aborigines. Good people down there. I agree you should stay in the U.S. though. The U.S. has a lot more dickheads than Australia does. You might not fit in down there.
“I was talking about the doctor who HD claimed was you, whose *every* online bio sez he went to univ of Illinois for med school”
I have never submitted any info for anyone to publish “online” bios – the only people that know this information are the people at the hospital I work at. If they get it wrong – it just multiplies, I guess (like the Clairol commercial in the 80s). Again, two things to take home today:
1. the internet is full of false information
2. UIC is NOT U.of C. even if it says so on the internet
3. Chicago is full of idiots
“1. the internet is full of false information”
Of course it is. Perhaps what you say is false, too.
All I know is that the intertubez are very consistent about the person HD was citing–the Medical Board of California sez University of Illinois, too. Not that that person is you, or anyone you know, of course.
“The U.S. has a lot more dickheads than Australia does.”
From my experience, a lot of the Australian dickhead end up living in the US.
Ze has got to give a 5 star review to Herman Miller Home products customer service. Called them in the states and they are already busy running around figuring out how to get my chair fixed. Handling it 100% of the way through. Very nice to see. Highly recommend!
Miumiu, my lack of funds is one of the many reasons I don’t have children. I reserve the right to be judgmental of people who have kids they can’t afford.
I’ve got the Herman miller setu at home and it rocks. I like it more than the aerons we have at the office. Cheaper and nicer looking and far simpler too.
Dude, uic undergrad. Not med school.
We were having a perfectly nice petty squabble about CPS and people have to go and ruin it with racism. I’m out!
“Dude, uic undergrad.”
Dude, did you read what you cut and paste? It listed med school, internship, residency and fellowship.
“We were having a perfectly nice petty squabble about CPS and people have to go and ruin it with racism. I’m out!”
Racism is the reason people don’t send their kids to CPS, whether they or anyone else is willing to admit it. CPS is only something like 6% white, and probably less than 1/2 of 1% Jewish. Rahm Emanuel has never sent his kids to CPS, ever. Even the GZ types, the skeptics, other assorted liberals who do send their kids to CPS…they will not send their kids to a majority black or Hispanic school. I don’t really think it’s rational to separate the two, since it’s probably the biggest factor in play.
“The U.S. has a lot more dickheads than Australia does.”\
In number yes, but per capita? Israel tops them both per capita, and Israeli tourists have an exceptionally bad reputation.
“The U.S. has a lot more dickheads than Australia does.”
My Aussie friend has assured me on many occasions that America has not cornered the market on dickheads. She works at a company that, among other things, installs solar panels. It’s been raining in her section of the country for three days straight. Yesterday, she had 25 customers call up and complain that their solar panels weren’t working.
Joe & Dan#2:
Schools – imo parents perception of appropriate peers impacts real estate decisions. Imo one big point Joe and others here miss is that peers at school have a huge impact on developing attitudes toward education and life. A student’s genes and family at best establish a range of where outcomes might be expected. My wife convinced me to move our family to a home in a sub’n school district (similar to D2’s) that runs a great operation, recruits better teachers than CPS can imo and keeps the best by rewarding performance. The school’s track record draws education focused families (including many hard working 1st generation immigrant families like the ones HHofer slights earlier) whose achievement oriented children & families directly benefited my kids & me by fostering a vibe which encouraged & pushed my kids to work harder at school than I ever did. Maybe these things could also happen at a CPS but imo it is a lot more likely to be hit and miss within CPS. Early peer reinforcement of achievement continues to pay dividends. And the school system continues to be a magnet, assisting home sellers.
“1st generation immigrant families like the ones HHofer slights earlier”
I didn’t slight anyone. I said these parents are willing to put up with longer commutes because they value better schools.
Property has already been pulled off the market, it looks like.