Get a Gut Remodeled 2/2 with W/D for $425,000 in Streeterville: 401 E. Ontario
This 2-bedroom in 401 E. Ontario in Streeterville came on the market in November 2022.
401 E. Ontario was built in 1990 but was originally apartments. It was converted into condos in 1999. It has 394 units and attached parking.
It is a full amenity building with doorstaff, an exercise room, an indoor pool and spa and rooftop decks.
The listing says this unit has had a “complete gut remodel.”
This unit is a split corner with views of the lake and skyline. The listing says it has “luxury finishes” including new dark hardwood floors throughout.
It has LED strip lighting in the crown molding and custom built-ins in the living/dining room.
The kitchen has been remodeled with new gray? (green?) cabinetry, stainless steel appliances and the listing says granite counter tops but they look like quartz (?).
The listing says both bathrooms have new cabinetry, showers and granite countertops (again looks like quartz?).
The primary bedroom has a walk-in-closet with custom built-ins.
This unit has the features buyers look for including central air, washer/dryer in the unit and garage parking is available for $30,000.
This unit also has a full size storage which is included.
This building is in the heart of Streeterville near restaurants, Starbucks and other coffee shops, supermarkets and isn’t far from the Mag Mile and Navy Pier.
It has come on the market at $425,000 plus the $30,000 for the parking, or $455,000. It last sold in 2015 for $425,000, when it was not remodeled.
Is remodeling essential to getting a sale in the older high rises in this slow market?
Eugene Fu at @Properties Christie’s has the listing. See the pictures here (sorry, no floor plan).
Unit #2302: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1200 square feet
- Sold in June 1999 for $310,500 (fyi, the 30-year fixed rate mortgage in the April-June 1999 period was around 7%)
- Sold in June 2005 for $390,000
- Sold in July 2015 for $425,000
- Currently listed at $425,000 (plus $30,000 for parking)
- Assessments of $977 a month (includes heat, a/c, doorman, cable, exercise room, pool, exterior maintenance, scavenger, snow removal, Internet)
- Taxes of $8449
- Central Air
- Washer/dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 14×12
- Bedroom #2: 13×10
- Living/dining room: 23×20
- Kitchen: 8×14
- Laundry: 3×2
Buy place
Live for 7 years
Spend nearly $100k on HOA fees
Spend $75k (SWAG) on remodel
+ Lose money on sale
TAKE ALL MY MONEY
This should be multiple offer situation – relatively inexpensive and remodeled to Sabrina’s liking
Terrible pictures do not give a good impression of the space.
Also, not a gut remodel since the last sale. New kitchen cabinets, but kept the same old cheap appliances. Notice the listing does show the refrigerator. Shower and tv cabinet mount thing is also pre-2015. New paint and lighting. As much as I think crown molding is outdated, I like how they used it to add some overhead lighting.
Biggest hurtle for sale is that the building is so ugly.
“Sold in June 1999 for $310,500 (fyi, the 30-year fixed rate mortgage in the April-June 1999 period was around 7%)”
+ CPI = $556k
June 2005 for $390,000 + CPI = $597k
And even July 2015 for $425,000 + CPI = $530k.
Seems like this building should be a candidate for deconversion.
“no floor plan”
FP in the prior listing.
“Spend nearly $100k on HOA fees”
dumb comment…you’d still be paying a good portion of this owning somewhere.
“Association Fee Includes: Heat, Air Conditioning, Water, Insurance, Doorman, TV/Cable, Exercise Facilities, Pool, Exterior Maintenance, Scavenger, Snow Removal, Internet”
Why did they leave a gap between the cabinets and the ceiling? I’m just imagining all of the dust that’s going to get stuck in there and that no one is going to ever clean. Then, there are open cabinets in one of the bathrooms. I guess they couldn’t make it so the a cabinet with a door or drawer could open in that spot, but ugh. I also dislike framed shower doors. The white cabinet in one of the bathrooms is not custom and there is wasted space between the toilet and cabinet. That cabinet also doesn’t have a toe kick, so either you’re on your stomach, cleaning under there or watching the cleaning person to make sure that it actually gets cleaned under there.
I suppose the price for this place is low, but it also has an awful “view.” I would pass unless desperate.
“Association Fee Includes: Heat, Air Conditioning, Water, Insurance, Doorman, TV/Cable, Exercise Facilities, Pool, Exterior Maintenance, Scavenger, Snow Removal, Internet”
Is $50k better? It def isnt zero
Considering how dated the stuff from 2000 to 2005 now looks, it’s going to be even harder to sell stuff from 1990. So many ugly, barren, generic concrete towers like this built in that era. I remember them going up and thinking how ugly, even back then.
This is a nice unit; good views, lots of windows, unusual floor plan, upgrades, good location and price.
“Spend nearly $100k on HOA fees”
As someone else already said, you are going to pay for electricity regardless. Heat. Cable. Maybe you don’t go to a separate gym because you use this one.
But yes, many people who live in small town Indiana probably don’t understand why someone is paying for staff in a high rise. High rise living isn’t for everyone. Many can’t afford it. But plenty of others can.
You gotta bring it to live in the big city.
Bring what my C game to live in Chicago? A fear of going out after dark? The ability to get drunk by noon?
“you are going to pay for … regardless. … Cable.”
No, I’m really not.
“you are going to pay for … regardless. … Cable.”
“No, I’m really not.”
This is when I really think anon(tfo) doesn’t live in Chicago or any other major city, for that matter. But maybe he just has never lived in a high rise.
When the listings say “cable” now, they mean cable/internet. Do you pay for your internet anon(tfo) or are you at a Starbucks every day to post on this site?
As has been discussed many times on this site, but I will detail it again for those who haven’t ever lived in a condo high rise, condo buildings, through their sheer size, are able to negotiate a group rate on the cable/internet package. Much like your employer, if they are big and have a lot of employees, are able to use their size to negotiate a better rate on health insurance.
Large condo buildings, if they have a good condo board, can negotiate to get the cable/internet package for anywhere from $20 to $40 a month. Can individual homeowners get a 5G package with a Tivo DVR and full cable including HBOMax, for that? I don’t believe so. And while many may no longer get cable, they may still subscribe to HBOMax or Showtime, Starz or whatever else that a condo building may negotiate to get included in their package.
How much are you paying for high speed Internet and some of these extra channels? I’m assuming it is more than the $20 to $40 you pay in these buildings.
Buyers of condos really have to ask, and look closely, at what is actually included in that assessment and what they would pay if they had to pay for each of these things on their own.
I’m not going to disclose the building, but a few years ago, a mid-sized loft building was seeing its assessments creeping higher so that a 2/2 was around $600 a month. This was considered “expensive” for a building with few amenities and no doorman. Condo board decided to end the cable/Internet agreement (who wants cable anyway?) to “lower” the assessments. It did lower it by about $60 a month. Suddenly the 2/2s were around $525.
But each of those owners was actually going to be paying MORE when they had to go out into the open market themselves for their cable/Internet package. But perceptions are sometimes all that matters because condo buyers don’t really think about what is included in the assessment and what their out of pocket costs will be if some of the things weren’t included.
“When the listings say “cable” now, they mean cable/internet. Do you pay for your internet anon(tfo) or are you at a Starbucks every day to post on this site?”
So you are 100% sure?
“When the listings say “cable” now, they mean cable/internet.”
No, they really don’t.
Look at this listing:
“Association Fee Includes: Heat, Air Conditioning, Water, Insurance, Doorman, TV/Cable, Exercise Facilities, Pool, Exterior Maintenance, Scavenger, Snow Removal, Internet”
What’s that last word? Does it say “tv/cable” before it?
Anyway, your suggestion that one would “pay for cable regardless” just indicates that you’re old.
Old people “have to” have cable wherever they live.
Cut the cord about 10 years ago and haven’t looked back–wouldn’t consider a cable package, unless it was 100% free, and even then might not take it.
“Association Fee Includes: Heat, Air Conditioning, Water, Insurance, Doorman, TV/Cable, Exercise Facilities, Pool, Exterior Maintenance, Scavenger, Snow Removal, Internet”
Yeah. They do. The packages are done together. The agents list it separately if they want to. Many times they just list cable because they are lazy.
Buyers need to check with the building to see what is really included in the assessment because many times the agents don’t get it right either. They leave things off many times.
And it doesn’t matter if I’m “old.” (Of course I am. 70 is old.) I understand that many don’t want cable. But in large condo buildings, the cable companies package it. As a woman, you may be 30 years old and have no intention of getting pregnant, but your health insurance will still include maternity care. It’s all just bundled in. Even with the DVRs as well.
Either way, you confirmed you’re paying for the Internet, which is dirt cheap in these condo packages, as I have already said. So, yeah, they are basically throwing in the cable for “free”. But it often includes the streaming channels that people pay extra for if they don’t have cable like HBOMax and STARZ.
“Buyers need to check with the building to see what is really included in the assessment because many times the agents don’t get it right either.”
Thats a lot of words to say you dont know for sure
Enjoy Matlock & Murder She Wrote before the wine kicks in and its nappy time
But your argument was that one would certainly be paying for *CABLE* wherever one lives.
Which is bullshit.
anon ck out Pappas’ prop tax summary (4600 words)
https://www.cookcountytreasurer.com/pdfs/taxbillanalysisandstatistics/taxyear2021analysis.pdf
you might dig this too (3200 words)
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/30/opinion/covid-pandemic-cities-future.html
“might dig this too”
I particularly enjoy this:
“decline in [New York] office values … in the longer run … a $453 billion value destruction.”
and extrapolating to the whole USA:
“$453.64 billion in the long run”
So, commercial office space in the entire US, ex. NYC, will decline by $640m.
NAREIT (slightly out of date 2Q21–https://www.reit.com/data-research/research/nareit-research/estimating-size-commercial-real-estate-market-us-2021) has US Office worth $3.2T. The 39% decline and $453 number has NYC office worth just under $1.2T.
So, NYC office is going to go down by 39%, and the rest of the country is going down by…0.032%??
So, you click thru to the paper, bc that seems really f’d, right? There is nothing about $453 billion in NYC–tho the nationwide number is in there.
But most shocking to me is in the first footnote–the assertion that:
“Investable commercial real estate assets were worth about $4.7 trillion at the end of 2019, of which office represents the largest component.”
As one can see from the NAREIT data, investable real estate is over FOUR TIMES the number they used, and the largest component is multifamily.
You also see that they base their calculations on REIT assets and A+ NYC office, and then use (bizarrely!!) a 16(!!) cap on the gross rent data (value = 6x gross rent). Yeahyeahyeah, cap is going to be a lot higher on gross, but COME ON!! 16?? when properties had been trading at about 5??
There are obviously a lot of challenges facing office properties, CBDs and dense cities, but citing to this goofy analysis isn’t very convincing.
Garbage in, garbage out. Typical economists.
“Pappas’ prop tax summary”
Left out:
the net result of Kaegi’s increases to Commercial assessment: a windfall for property tax appeal lawyers.
Totally broken system.
I have not read the papers Edsall cites, only glanced at them; nor am I fan of Ed Glaeser & Richard Florida. Like you I thought the assumptions of asset value decline looked pretty paltry given the asset class’s gigantic size. But I’m a believer in the narrative: WFH is a game changer, very bad news for Chicago. Point for my side: I laughing told my friend that the run on Blackstone’s reit is “just like” the run preceding FTX’s collapse. (Ha ha ha. It’s true!)
As per Maria’s report of the “20 Year History of Total Taxes Billed in Cook County”:
https://www.cookcountytreasurer.com/pdfs/taxbillanalysisandstatistics/taxyear2021analysis.pdf#page=3
Compare the growth rate of county taxes to other indices (1/1/02 – 1/1/21):
20 Year Total % change, per annum % change
Cook County Taxes: 95%, 3.6%
CPI-U All Cities: 48%, 2.1%
CPI-U Chicago: 38.3%, 1.7%
Chicago Case-Shiller: 33.3%, 1.5%
Nasdaq 100 Index: 688%, 11.5%
Federal Reserve Bank assets: 1048%, 13.7% pa
You can’t say the Fed hasn’t done everything they could to inflate an awesome bubble. But when your property taxes grow 2x the rate of inflation your property’s “appreciation” (the Fed’s gift to the levered longs) is gonna be paid annually to local taxing bodies. And if central banks say they’re gonna shrink their balance balance sheets to contain inflation . . . join the line to redeem your Blackstone shares.
“WFH is a game changer, very bad news for Chicago.”
Nah. Snap just ordered employees back 4 days a week starting in February. Most companies will do the hybrid. It DOES mean less office space however. They simply don’t need as much space now.
If anything, WFH really helps the non-downtown neighborhoods. You don’t have to live quite as close to work anymore. You don’t mind having to go downtown 2 times a week from Lincoln Square now.
We must live in one of those badly-managed large Streeterville high-rise condo buildings. Assessment breakdown notes $91.67/month for internet/cable tv.
“We must live in one of those badly-managed large Streeterville high-rise condo buildings. Assessment breakdown notes $91.67/month for internet/cable tv.”
You must, architect. Or it’s one that doesn’t have as many units so hasn’t been able to leverage size to get a better bargain. The more units you bring to the table, the better. If it’s just 100 or 200, might not be as good of a deal as 300+.
I wonder how good of a deal they get in the Hancock because of their enormous size. Anyone know?