Get a Turret and 4-Bedrooms in Oak Park For Under $525K: 1217 N. Columbian
We recently chattered about a 3-bedroom 1930s tudor at 1717 N. Normandy in Galewood that was just a block north of North Avenue and the Oak Park border that was listed at $390,000.
See our prior chatter here.
Some of you commented that you might as well live in Oak Park. But Russ said:
“Looks like a solid house. Needs a little updating, but appears to have good bones. That house would probably be in the mid to upper 600s in Oak Park.”
This 4-bedroom vintage English style house at 1217 N. Coumbian in Oak Park is currently on the market just 2 blocks south of the Normandy house.
It is listed as a short sale at $519,000.
The house is finally under contract after first coming on the market in May 2011. (Usually I don’t like to chatter about houses under contract but I had a picture of this one and it’s still an interesting contrast to the one on Normandy given its location.)
It also has a turret entryway.
The living room has a beamed ceiling and there are hardwood floors throughout, including the bedrooms. 3 out of the 4 bedrooms are on the second floor with the fourth on the main level.
It has both a family room on the main level and a lower level finished basement with a bar.
Built in 1937 on an oversized 66×124 lot, it also has a 2-car garage and central air (like the house on Normandy.)
The kitchen has stainless steel appliances and white cabinets.
Is Oak Park the better buy right now, especially if you’re concerned about the schools?
Michelle Orton Loftus at Dream Town has the listing. See the pictures here.
1217 N. Columbian: 4 bedrooms, 3 baths, 2900 square feet, 2 car garage
- Sold in October 2003 for $643,000
- Lis pendens filed in March 2011
- Originally listed in May 2011 for $700,000
- Reduced numerous times
- Currently listed as a “short sale” at $519,000
- Under contract
- Taxes of $16,919
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 14×16 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 11×16 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 11×15 (second floor)
- Bedroom #4: 9×12 (main floor)
- Family room: 10×15 (main floor)
- Recreation room: 38×16 (lower level)
“Is Oak Park the better buy right now, especially if you’re concerned about the schools?”
Depends. As Groove pointed out and we’ve learned while searching OP listings, the property taxes are almost $1K/month on average. So the monthly payment on a $400K home will be vastly different inside and outside of Oak Park. And unlike Real Estate, taxes can only go up. 😀
Gorgeous. Taxes take it out of the running though… ouch!
I had to take a double take–looks so similar to yesterday’s Galewood posting. I like the suburb/city comparison–thanks, Sabrina!
Two tudors in close proximity, but the OP tudor has grander architectural features, larger lot, newish kitchen, and updated decorating for probable “move-in ready” condition. It’s probably worth another $150,000 over the Galewood tudor. RE taxes can be rationalized as school tuition for two K-12 kids, because a white-collar purchaser of Galewood house is unlikely to use K-8 public school and never the assigned in-district public HS. I’d say this short-sale was a “deal”, but there are now more than a handful of “deals” in OP during any given week.
The deals will only continue to get better.
Does the turret come with Rapunzel?
The listing shows cancelled….
Love the side-by-side city/suburbs listings, Sabrina!
On redfin, it shows pending not cancelled.
“I had to take a double take–looks so similar to yesterday’s Galewood posting. I like the suburb/city comparison–thanks, Sabrina!’
Your wish is my command.
If everyone likes this nearby property type of comparisons between city/suburbs- that’s more doable for me than just some random suburban posts (and more interesting, I think, as well.) I’ll do more of these if people like it.
“On redfin, it shows pending not cancelled.”
I linked to the urbanrealestate listing because anyone can see that (you don’t have to be registered.) On redfin, you have to be registered to see the pictures on pending properties (or at least- most of them.)
But yes- it is apparently pending now. But it’s a short sale- so it could be “pending” for quite some time.
This listing has a slate roof as compared to the Chicago listing. Taxes, well they are OP-RF taxes.
Are the public schools in Oak Park a viable option? There’s a lot of crap butting right up against Oak Park.
Keep up the comparisons, Sabrina. I like it.
Even if you think of the taxes as school tuition, they seem far too high for what you’re receiving. Oak Park schools are better than CPS, but I’m not sure they’re top caliber in the suburbs (I may be wrong, as I haven’t researched). For a property like this, I was expecting to see taxes in the $9,000 range.
This house is better than the galewood house and list price doesnt show it?
Oh wait the galewood house prop taxes are 4k a year and the Oak Park house prop taxes are 16k a year.
so for 12k more a year all you get is a better High School and more pompous neighbors?
lets do the math say you live in the house for 20 years with two kids;
Private HS tuition 15k per year x 4 years= 60k x 2 kids= 120k
now
12k more in property taxes x 20 years= 240k
Now also remember that Selective enrollment CPS HS can com into play so that 120k might be 60k or even 0
Just did the calculation and I was right -taxes are way out of whack. I’ve heard they should be about 1.5% of the property’s value. That would make them right about $9,000, which was my estimate before I actually calculated them.
For comparison, I live in a similar-sized home on the North Shore. Our lot is significantly deeper than this one, but the value of our home is slightly less than the price on this one. We pay around $9,000 in taxes.
And not to slight Oak Park schools, because they may be great, but we’re very happy with the North Shore schools and I would have to think long and hard before trading them for Oak Park schools.
All that said, this is a very charming home.
Sabrina, please keep up the comparisons. They are very helpful, especially in the case of these two similar homes that are only a few blocks and yet worlds apart.
Sabrina, this is a very good find and a very good deal for the buyers. It does get the shortsale/foreclosure discount though hence the price and I don’t think this is necessarily the market for these homes in OP. The house is also very close to North Avenue which isn’t as desirable but is an attractive home nonetheless and appears in very good shape.
Most of the distressed sales are not these type of properties though. The agent at the house I linked to yesterday told me a developer was buying up a bunch of the smaller bungalows, 4 squares east of Ridgeland and rehabbing them. A lot of estate sale properties.
Bradford, the schools in OP are excellent unless you consider New Trier to be the baseline for an acceptable public school.
I agree this is an excellent home, especially if OP schools are as good as Russ says, but whoever the buyer is should talk to the assessor about those taxes.
Groove, I don’t think this property is quite an apples to apples comparison. The house I linked yesterday was more in line price wise and on the less pompous side of OP (east of Ridgeland). It was a smaller house than the Galewood house and could have been a reasonable alternative for a like buyer. Taxes on that house will probably be around $7k after reassessment.
Todays property is not a direct subsitute imho for the Galewood house. Even with the distressed price it is in a totally difffrent income bracket buyer wise. The taxes are also going to be much higher as you ponited out.
The taxes appear to be higher than they should be but there’s no way they’ll get reduced to $9k/year. Maybe $12k/year at best. I could do the calculation to figure it out but don’t have the inclination right now. Also, county doesn’t consider short sale and REO transactions as “market transactions”, so you can’t present the HUD and expect the assessed value to be adjusted. The appraisal might work, depending if it discloses the type of transaction (can’t recall off the top of my head if it does or not).
Actually, on second thought, those taxes probably aren’t going anywhere. South Cook County was just reassessed and everything was brought down, so those taxes are probably going to stay right where they are (or maybe go up).
“The taxes appear to be higher than they should be but there’s no way they’ll get reduced to $9k/year. Maybe $12k/year at best.”
“Actually, on second thought, those taxes probably aren’t going anywhere. South Cook County was just reassessed and everything was brought down, so those taxes are probably going to stay right where they are (or maybe go up).”
I thought maybe the taxes for this place were crazy high. I took a look at some $500K ish listings. Pretty much all over $10K in taxes, some well over. Holy crap.
“Groove, I don’t think this property is quite an apples to apples comparison.”
correct it is not an apple top apples comparison, the OP home is nicer and bigger but its a short sale. the OP home you linked to yesterday needed way more updating. there probably is a more direct comparison homes but what Sabrina did was a great visual effect in these two places just from the pics. Which is all you need for a internet blog.
that said and so you can take my words into context, yes we have searched homes in The Peoples Republic of Oak Park and will consider moving there if the right house at the right price right by lake street pops up.
It’s Tudor Thursday!
Why are Oak Park taxes higher than taxes on the North Shore? I assume the school quality is equivalent, but lot sizes in Oak Park are on the whole going to be smaller. If this house is typical, and taxes throughout the area are nearly twice the level of a similar sized property on the North Shore, than there would appear to be a problem.
“that said and so you can take my words into context, yes we have searched homes in The Peoples Republic of Oak Park and will consider moving there if the right house at the right price right by lake street pops up’
groove, we should co-ordinate our visits to the open houses 😉
“Why are Oak Park taxes higher than taxes on the North Shore? I assume the school quality is equivalent, but lot sizes in Oak Park are on the whole going to be smaller. If this house is typical, and taxes throughout the area are nearly twice the level of a similar sized property on the North Shore, than there would appear to be a problem.”
The property tax rate is among the highest for desirable suburbs in Cook County (I think nearly 9% of equalized assessed value). Winnetka, IIRC, is 6-7%, so an equally assessed property there might have a tax bill roughly 1/3 less. Also, this isn’t a “typical” house for Oak Park.
Overall school quality isn’t equivalent, at least when gauged by an objective measure such as ISAT scores. However, there is a major performance gap between races in Oak Park.
The town has a reputation for spending money freely on unnecessary projects–for example, the repaving of South Marion with paver bricks. Pretty–yes–but not necessary at all.
2010/pay2011 effective tax rates as % of market value (no exemptions):
1.63% Chicago
2.92% Oak Park
2.12% Kenilworth
1.88% Winnetka SD 37
2.15% Highland Park
1.43% Lake Forest
2.30% Park Ridge SD 64
2.26% Evanston
2010/pay2011 effective tax rates for a $500,000 house with max homeowner’s exemption, as % of market value:
1.47% Chicago
2.56% Oak Park
1.86% Kenilworth
1.65% Winnetka SD 37
2.07% Highland Park
1.38% Lake Forest
2.02% Park Ridge SD 64
1.99% Evanston
man that tax bill would burn me up every time i saw it, why is the tax rate so much higher there? it certainly isn’t because they provide that much better services, wtf
And I also think this house is beautiful on the outside but HIDEOUS on the inside, I’m sure the kitchen floor is that ugly ass tourquise linoleum, but its partially covered by some indian rugs (not exactly practical in a kitchen) some old lady must live here because the decor is certianly “vintage”. Every single picture in this house is showcases hideous decor! The place does look to have good bones and it does have potential, but not sure how liveable it is for such a huge monthly nut.
Also how could this person not have any equity!!! Also, why would anyone buy this as a short sale if its just going to be a forclosure soon anyway?
I like this place a lot.
Like this place a lot.
I’d probably take Galewood over this though. Way cheaper and the taxes are ridiculous for the OP home.
“Also, why would anyone buy this as a short sale if its just going to be a forclosure soon anyway?”
It’s a well established FACT (aka read it on Cribchatter so it must be true) that all the good REO deals go to people with inside connections, so the average chump like me would miss out on this.
The taxes in OP blow, but it is a very liberal village so it par for the course. The left loves to spend other people’s money. It pays for the vegan/organic kids meals etc at the schools. I honestly don’t mind too much because I have been pleasantly surprised with the service levels in the village and generally like what we see at the schools even though we don’t have kids yet. We lost a tree in our front yard due to disease and my wife called and within like a week we had a new tree. They even asked what kind we wanted. Cops seems to be everywhere and show up very quick.
The schools are as good as any other burbs. The ISAT scores may be a little lower since OP is much more diverse income and ethinically which I think is a testament to how well the schools perform considering some might have 20% or so low income. However, if you strip that out you won’t see much of a difference for like demographics. Of course, you can’t satisfy all the neurotic parents who think their kid is gifted and god forbid if 99% of the school isn’t in the 99% percentile in 2nd grade, it will ruin Connor’s chance at getting into Princeton.
It is a great village if you to be in the city, but don’t really want to be in the city… lol. Not perfect, but no place is…
re: Oak Park taxes, the village spends a large sum for its police force, for obvious reasons. Its likely significantly higher than what North Shore suburbs pay. There also has been a lot of spending over the past decade, we have a brand new library, and two brand new middle schools. Just this year D97 (elem & middle schools) had a successful referendum so our taxes are going up yet again.
re: Oak Park schools, as Chris M alluded to, unlike the North Shore there is a significant fraction of students in the OP school system of low socio-economic status. This cohort pulls down average test scores and also resulted in OP schools failing to make the cut-off for No Child Left Behind.
“The taxes in OP blow, but it is a very liberal village so it par for the course. left loves to spend other people’s money. It pays for the vegan/organic kids meals etc at the schools.”
which is the main reason I’d never ever live there… I can’t stand most city liberals they are idiots, bad enough if you get one on your condo board, (you can eventually get them out) but having a crapton of voters in your town keeping the machine going, no thanks!
Keep in mind that the homeowner’s exemption is being phased down. Recent tax bills were reduced significantly by this exemption–$1,500 I believe on the 2010 taxes and I think around $2,500 the year before. When the phase out is complete, the exemption might be worth up to $1,000
” it will ruin Connor’s chance at getting into Princeton”
Dude, naming him (her?) Connor is enough to ruin that chance.
Riverside/Brookfield article, but equally applicable to OP: http://www.rblandmark.com/Main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=8160
2011 assessor’s market value = 623,280, down from 683,640 for 2010.
And, yo be clear, the 2010/pay 2011 taxes were actually $18,177.18. With an HO exemption worth $1,768.20.
“re: Oak Park taxes, the village spends a large sum for its police force, for obvious reasons”.
LOL!!! Serves the diversicrats and liberals right. They should pay for it.
“Dude, naming him (her?) Connor is enough to ruin that chance”
Connor Larkin. It’s a far more stand-up name than something like “Josh”.
“groove, we should co-ordinate our visits to the open houses”
any time bro, you may have bumped into us already and dont know it 🙂
“It is a great village if you to be in the city, but don’t really want to be in the city… lol. Not perfect, but no place is…”
100% Bingo Russ,
it is the *closest thing to an all around comprise.
G,
thanks for the tax rate thing and goes to show my point of Galewood. what does Oak Park Provide different for the extra taxes?
“Connor Larkin. It’s a far more stand-up name than something like “Josh”.”
I hadn’t realized that Princeton had relaxed its ban on Leon Uris characters.
Or the Irish.
“any time bro, you may have bumped into us already and dont know it ”
I was certain that you was you who beat me out on this one
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5816-N-East-Circle-Ave-60631/home/13508929
haahaha,
nope my back started aching looking at the pictures.
Not a fan of Oak Park for several reasons
1. It borders a crappy part of Chicago – South Austin.
2,. Taxes are out of control
3. I think its a crappy location in terms of commute.
Im also not a fan of Park Ridge but at least their taxes are lower, they border Niles, Des Plaines and 2 of the most stable neighborhoods in Chicago – Norwood and Edison -AND- its a solid commuting suburb. Close to airport, train, Blue line, 90, 294 etc.
Im far from a liberal so maybe I don’t see what kool aid people are drinking that they love Oak Park so much.
Much better bang for the buck seems to be the North Shore.
” I think its a crappy location in terms of commute.”
?? Really? It’s middish way bt Oak Brook and the Loop, has two el lines and a metra line and is all of about 11 miles from *both* ORD and MDW.
Yes, it’s total crap if you work in Lake County. But if you work in Lake County, you just live in Lake County.
“I hadn’t realized that Princeton had relaxed its ban on Leon Uris characters.
Or the Irish.”
Princeton bans the Irish?
Why did John F. Kennedy go there then?
“Much better bang for the buck seems to be the North Shore.”
Park Ridge is the conservative alternative to liberal Oak Park. Oak Park has crime and borders some pretty sketchy areas, but Park Ridge has the airport. And the three parallel runways with the 9c-27c runway yet to be built is going to SLAM the southern half of the town with 2000 flights a day. Thanks to anon(tfo( for pointing that out. Now I’m looking at the northern half of the town, preferably a nice 1960’s sprawling ranch or larger bi/tri level somewhere near maine park or the manor. Too bad inventory is abysmal right now.
“Too bad inventory is abysmal right now.”
It’s the winter. It’s like that everywhere. In the spring- a lot more will come on the market.
“Why did John F. Kennedy go there then?”
To have a tryst with a Jersey girl?
He didn’t last a semester!
yeah Hd- you’ll fit right in in park ridge
“Thanks to anon(tfo( for pointing that out.”
I’m here to help.
JFK got sick. It was his usual “nearly on the deathbed” type illness. The family made him transfer to Harvard to be closer to doctors in Boston. But Princeton was his original choice. So I don’t know what they’re talking about.
What about LaGrange or Brookfield? Decent housing stock (although parts of LaGrange are still pricey.) Great schools. No planes overhead. Quick commute downtown from several metra stops. LaGrange has a nice downtown with grocery shopping, movie theater, good restaurants.
“yeah Hd- you’ll fit right in in park ridge”
I can’t tell if that’s sarcastic or not. Sadly I have a better understanding of HD than I do of PR, wherever it might be.
“What about LaGrange or Brookfield? Decent housing stock (although parts of LaGrange are still pricey.) Great schools. No planes overhead. Quick commute downtown from several metra stops. LaGrange has a nice downtown with grocery shopping, movie theater, good restaurants.”
You’re not getting much of an SFH in La Grange under $150K. Not sure about the good restaurants part. A lot of ok restaurants, nothing terribly interesting.
“You’re not getting much of an SFH in La Grange under $150K.”
No. For HD (not the other person who is looking.) HD keeps complaining about Park Ridge and the airport etc. etc. Then don’t move to Park Ridge. Lots of other inner suburbs. Hey- HD- what about downtown Arlington Heights? Decent prices there and there are some interesting historical homes that come on the market every once in awhile.
“No. For HD (not the other person who is looking.) HD keeps complaining about Park Ridge and the airport etc. etc. Then don’t move to Park Ridge.”
Yup, sorry, I confused the two. I think it’s not the best commute for MrsHD from La Grange. There are some nice houses there, but LG is really a pretty conformist and homogeneous place–HD aspires to someplace more interesting (I don’t know that Park Ridge is that someplace).
“Lots of other inner suburbs. Hey- HD- what about downtown Arlington Heights?”
I hope you don’t consider Arlington Heights an “inner” suburb. Arlington Heights is basically Schaumburg….
“For HD (not the other person who is looking.)”
and the other person who is looking would be….
“and the other person who is looking would be….”
Someone who knows someone who posts on CC, or something like that.
Someone who is looking for a $100-150K, 1bdr or sfh, in some suburb or uptown or gold coast, or something like that.
It’s like you’re not even paying attention (it’s in the 2029 racine thread).
homedelete (December 8, 2011, 8:20 pm)
Park Ridge is the conservative alternative to liberal Oak Park. Oak Park has crime and borders some pretty sketchy areas, but Park Ridge has the airport. And the three parallel runways with the 9c-27c runway yet to be built is going to SLAM the southern half of the town with 2000 flights a day. Thanks to anon(tfo( for pointing that out. Now I’m looking at the northern half of the town, preferably a nice 1960?s sprawling ranch or larger bi/tri level somewhere near maine park or the manor. Too bad inventory is abysmal right now.
Rating: -1 (from 1 vote)
I like Park Ridge in general. Schools are the cats meow. Good peeps in general, family oriented community. Surrounded by good neighboring towns. Location is great in terms of community to burbs or down town. Does have issues – taxes are high, they have flooding issues, Electricty goes out easily, Every year they are without power for days. If I moved there I would have to have a back up generator propane.
Not sure on the planes. I think the entire NW side has plane noise. I consider it a non issue.
I like LaGrange as well. Much bigger fan of LaGrange that I am Oak Park
anon (tfo) (December 8, 2011, 6:48 pm)
” I think its a crappy location in terms of commute.”
?? Really? It’s middish way bt Oak Brook and the Loop, has two el lines and a metra line and is all of about 11 miles from *both* ORD and MDW.
Yes, it’s total crap if you work in Lake County. But if you work in Lake County, you just live in Lake County.
——-
Oak Park is great if you commute to the loop or Oak Brook or Maywood. Its a complete bitch to get out of there to go to any other major burb. Your relying on Harlem or 290 to get out of there. Im not a fan of the location.
“Your relying on Harlem or 290 to get out of there”
as stated NEVER USE HARLEM if you value your sanity. or 290, your better of shooting butterfield to 88 then 88 wherever or buttefield to 83 north or just plain ol 294 north south. if you need to go east use the president streets, you drive thorugh sketchy parts put its 100000x better than 290.
i had a friend who lives a block off harlem and 79th they work in lincolnwood by mcormick ave when he told me he drove harlem the whole way, i cried for him. i told him to go up to cumberland or at least for the love of anything take cicero. the tard said 1st ave is out of his way because he lives right off harlem.
so months go by and the the three fingered sloth is still complaining about his commute. so to get the hardheaded nut ball to take my “perfect” route i bet him $200 that i could cut his commute by a minimum of 15 minutes. he still owes me $100 and on the first try the commute was cut by 25 minutes.
listen to the groove is the moral of the story, well that and pay up beyotches as he is not a close friend anymore too.
OK Groove you seem to know your stuff – ill trust you when you say it’s not that bad
“So I don’t know what they’re talking about.”
Why are we even discussing Princeton? It’s not like any of our kids have any chance of getting in there, anyway.
Seriously, it was just a joke.
“Why are we even discussing Princeton? It’s not like any of our kids have any chance of getting in there, anyway.”
my son goes to yale….
“Seriously, it was just a joke.”
Was there ever an Irish/Catholic quota at Princeton etc.? Seems like the kinda thing that could have happened, although I can’t remember hearing of one. I wouldn’t put anything past those eating clubs though.
“my son goes to yale….”
Which college?
““my son goes to yale….”….
“Which college?”
On a good Saturday night, he has a reputation for servicing several. It is Yale!
““my son goes to yale….”
Which college?”
duhhhh – yale!!!
“duhhhh – yale!!!”
leaves one speechless… I was waiting for Silliman or Slytherin.
hahaha – jonathon edwards
I thought you had 2 daughters Clio.
“Slytherin”
Had to google what that is, but we have been trying to convince our son that lane tech is hogwarts.
“I thought you had 2 daughters Clio.”
Nope – 1 son and 1 daughter.
DZ, you did not know what Slytherin is? What a disappointment after the isomorphism remark ; )
Ze, that is my favorite house after all beloved Draco is an Slytherin. Could you please suggest Hufflepuff next time around?
“Could you please suggest Hufflepuff next time around?”
As if Ze could be anything other than Huff-le-puff. That magic hat would need a box of Oreo Double Stuff and a nap after it got past me.
“He was wearing my Harvard tie. Can you believe it? My Harvard tie. Like oh, sure he went to Harvard.”
“you did not know what Slytherin is? What a disappointment after the isomorphism remark”
Sorry, no England-ish mythology if it wasn’t written by an oxbridge don.
“What a disappointment after the isomorphism remark””
DZ, had you just followed up with bisimulation, miu miu was yours for the taking!
““He was wearing my Harvard tie. Can you believe it? My Harvard tie. Like oh, sure he went to Harvard.””
Heh.
I believe I still owe you a dollar for MF Global.
@ze, lol…I definitely have a thing for mathematicians. Although I prefer theoretical physicists : )
“I believe I still owe you a dollar for MF Global.”
Keep it. Just going to get stolen anyway!
“Keep it. Just going to get stolen anyway!”
Do you happen to know the time in Gstaad?
“Do you happen to know the time in Gstaad?”
Shussching down the slopes with Mr. Rich… (didn’t realize til after I typed that, how much sense that might actually make)
“@ze, lol…I definitely have a thing for mathematicians. Although I prefer theoretical physicists : )”
Miu, yep, I know what you mean. I remember going out for drinks after work and watching all the Physicists I worked with get all the hot chicks. Always coming in wearing yesterdays shirt after not having made it home, another night.
OT: font size of the recent comments in the right side list look really small relative to rest of page.
On a mobile device, that is.
A women can always make his man dress better, but there is very little one can do to improve the IQ. I like having smart off springs hence I prefer smart men. Oh and believe me there are physicist that look and dress well. Although non of the ones I know are American : )
“Always coming in wearing yesterdays shirt after not having made it home, another night.”
“I like having smart off springs hence I prefer smart men. ”
This is priceless. Also MM your population might be smaller than you think though because a lot of smart men like smart women–or at least that want offspring.
I agree and any ways I am done with my off spring so good luck to others still in the game, like you Bob : )
“a lot of smart men like smart women”
Oh and I guess you meant to say “or at least those who want offspring” ? ; )
Q: Did you hear about the constipated mathematician?
A: He worked it out with a pencil.
“a lot of smart men like smart women”
That’s not true at all. They go for the best piece of A they can get, period.
I don’t know first of all best piece of A and intelligence are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Secondly a smart men who makes babies with a bimbo cannot be really all that smart IMHO. Once they are stuck with not too bright teens then they start regretting it but well it is too late.
“They go for the best piece of A they can get, period.”
“Oh and believe me there are physicist that look and dress well. Although non of the ones I know are American ”
The small subset of American physicists who are good looking and dress well (virtually) all work/worked on the Street, or doing non-physics consulting. Or *maybe* Sili Valley.