Has the Market Improved? 4-Bedroom North Center Rowhouse Returns: 4143 N. Damen
We last chattered about this 4-bedroom rowhouse at 4143 N. Damen in North Center 2 years ago.
See the March 2010 chatter here.
At that time, the rowhouse had been on the market since August 2009 and was listed for $799,900.
It was withdrawn from the market without a sale.
If you recall, the rowhouse was built in 2005 on a 18.6×125 lot.
It is all brick construction on three levels and a two car garage.
It also has custom built-ins, marble baths, and commercial grade appliances in the kitchen along with granite counter tops.
The last time we chattered about it, it was a 3-bedroom rowhouse with 2 bedrooms on the second floor and one in the lower level.
The old listing said that second floor bedrooms could be split into three easily. Apparently, the seller just went ahead and did it.
The rowhouse is now four bedrooms with three bedrooms on the second floor and the fourth in the basement.
The backyard is also landscaped with a brick patio.
The rowhouse is listed for essentially the same amount as 2 years ago.
With a hotter housing market, and four bedrooms, will this property quickly find a buyer?
Jeff Lowe at Prudential Rubloff once again has the listing. See more pictures here.
4143 N. Damen: 4 bedrooms, 3.5 baths, no square footage listed, 2 car garage
- Sold in 2005 for somewhere between $780,000 and $800,000 (the public records are really messed up)
- Originally listed in August 2009
- Was listed in March 2010 for $799,900
- Withdrawn
- Currently listed for $799,000
- Taxes of $13143 (was $12,310)
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 18×17 (second level)
- Bedroom #2: 14×9 (second level)
- Bedroom #3: 12×10 (second level)
- Bedroom #4: 16×11 (lower level)
- Office: 14×10 (lower level)
- Family room: 25×18 (main level)
Does anyone here have those french door style fridge’s like those featured in the pics? If so, what is your opinion of them?
I have a fridge like this but it’s a GE Profile with two freezer drawers at the bottom. I absolutely love this fridge, it’s really functional for us. We entertain quite a bit and have large platters etc. but also good for day to day living.
as for the property…..seems a little bland and not too high grade. Those issues coupled with the fact that is on Damen would make it seem like closer to 700k would be a better price.
” If so, what is your opinion of them?”
Can say this.. extending a cooktop beyond the counter directly across form where you extend the fridge is just not good. The cooktop is my home, it needs space for me to move freely so that I can create my stoned out epicurean masterpieces.
“Does anyone here have those french door style fridge’s like those featured in the pics? ”
ours is a whirlpool. We love it. The only challenge is the freezer has this plastic divider that cannot be moved without breaking it so its tough to store frozen pizzas.
As I expected, the price on the single bottom door has come down now tha the double doors have been out a while.
Pretty, but I would not want to live directly on Damen.
trudi (March 14, 2012, 2:17 pm)
“…closer to 700k would be a better price.”
You are way high. This isn’t 2006. $700 is a Green Zone price. $700 is not going to happen here. I could post numerous listings for much, much better 4BR townhomes in the Green Zone, for much less than $700, but I don’t want those listings to hijack the thread. ( ok fine, google 2733 N Greenview or 2722 N Southport if you really care.)
This is a sub-$600 townhouse and that’s very generous.
Not even close to a deal until below $550.
SOPO,
I agree with you that this looks good below 550k or even 500k, but I think 2733 Greenview is very comparable, not better, location-wise.
seriously dudes, get off of this site and check out what is going on in the real estate market. I tell you, we are at levels not seen since 2007-8. Look at contract activity for this week alone – astonishing. Any other realtors out there – tell us what you are seeing. With this type of activity and interest, nobody is going to list their house for a discount – and there certainly NO WAY IN HELL that prices are going to fall further (distressed properties or not). Again, take the realtors’ opinions/observation…. I am just reporting what is going on…..
“Again, take the realtors’ opinions/observation…. ”
Yes, I’m certain they “researched it”
“$700 is a Green Zone price. $700 is not going to happen here. ”
Unless GZ only means GC, “real” LP and ELV, this is GZ. And then, with the restrctive definition, you’re proposing non-GZ alternatives.
Also, this one meets a requirement of mine that the others do not–fee simple.
Wow, if this isn’t GZ, I would request someone post a map of what is.
clio,
I let the data speak for itself. Show me any data that says home prices are increasing
I’d say the immediate area here is better than 2722 n southport. There is very little going on by 2722, it’s a dead area of west LP. this, otoh, is just off lincoln in the middle of north center. Being on Damen itself certainly isn’t ideal, especially with there being a bus, but the area? fine.
Friend was seriously considering a co-op unit few days ago for cash purchase. Viewed it last week w/listing broker directly, received number of requested co-op documents on Monday late afternoon from listing broker. Had retained architect to discuss renovation, budget, contractor, etc. Goes on competitor broker’s site early Monday night to see best photos, and sees unit is marked “contingent”. Calls listing broker, who responds with “oh, ya, it’s under contract”. Yes, I think market is warming up, because realtors are getting sloppy again.
I doubt we are at 07-08 levels, but Clio is right: activity is picking up. I know a few agents and they are all giving me the same story. Lots of interest on properties, lots of properties under contract, lots of multiple bid situations.
Whether this portends an overall bounce in the market, I don’t know. But it is certainly interesting out there right now.
It is awfully nice in that area – definitely as desirable as the so called “Green Zone”. Where is this Green Zone again, exactly?
As for price, I really doubt they get 800k. Seems possible that the sellers would have to bring cash to the closing – so I bet they take it off the market again. They simply paid too much at the very peak of the bubble. I wouldn’t pay more than 600k given what real SFHs sell for now.
But who knows.
” I am just reporting what is going on…..”
No you just continue the same pathetic pump because you are a piece of shit moron. The fact you will be right means nothing. You are a waste of life and a horrible human being.
To add some more anecdotal evidence, I recently lost out on 2 different REO’s that were multiple offer situations.
I know the feeling chuk. The one I lost out on is now relisted 4 weeks later for nearly 3x the last sale price with new appliances, counters, paint, lights and blinds. (and it is listed with the agent that the bank used while another agent in the same agency was the buying agent for this seller who bid just over our bid….seems a bit fishy to me…)
There definitely is activity out there!
“To add some more anecdotal evidence, I recently lost out on 2 different REO’s that were multiple offer situations.”
and I received the below from my broker two days ago. And this one has been the dog with fleas for Ze!
“…and her family from Canada are working out the numbers with me for an offer.. just giving them some time.”
HD – french door refrigerators suck. Have to open two doors instead of one every time, and close in the proper order. That said, if you’re pressed on space, it’s probably the way to go.
Chicago SFH/condo/TH data for 3/1 – 3/10 of each year. Keep in mind that current contracts are inflated when compared to prior years since it includes those that will fall out. Like I said yesterday, no evidence yet of more than ~10% YOY increase of sales. Also, distressed sales are increasing in the GZ. Neither factor will stop further price declines. Enjoy the kool aid.
contracts
2012 894
2011 686
2010 934
2009 576
2008 712
2007 1,100
closed
2012 383
2011 366
2010 503
2009 277
2008 425
2007 655
Uhhhhh, so I guess G is confirming what everyone is seeing.
Contract activity is 2nd highest we have seen in 5 years. Look at the significant increase of 2012 when compared with 2008, 2009, and 2011. 2010 only had 40 more contracts signed.
More importantly, the data is incorrect (when you compare with redfin’s data). Who is correct? Who knows – but just realize that all data point to increased activity.
Once again, check your own properties that you are following – I bet most are going under contract.
Also – closed sales that occurred 3/1-3/10 – are reflective of what happened in dec-jan (which, in real estate, is AGES ago). You need to concentrate on what is happening NOW – not three months ago.
“Who knows – but just realize that all data point to increased activity.”
Definitely points to increased individual optimism, now let’s see if financing follows.
One might see the data as saying that contract to close ratio has slipped into hell land. Then again you got that 800 On the Math SAT’s that swung you all the way into UIC.
Nearly 1/3 of all properties in chicago are now under contract.
“Also – closed sales that occurred 3/1-3/10 – are reflective of what happened in dec-jan (which, in real estate, is AGES ago).”
Since when?
It’s now taking 4 months to close? Not if it’s a “normal” sale- it’s not. Heck- even an FHA sale can get done in 40 to 50 days now.
“With this type of activity and interest, nobody is going to list their house for a discount – and there certainly NO WAY IN HELL that prices are going to fall further (distressed properties or not). Again, take the realtors’ opinions/observation…. I am just reporting what is going on…..”
OMG! There are 100 more contracts this year than last year at this time so prices will NEVER FALL AGAIN!
Ha! Ha!
This is why I run this site. It’s so much fun.
SABRINA: “OMG! There are 100 more contracts this year than last year at this time so prices will NEVER FALL AGAIN!”
sabrina,
2011 contracts: 686
2012 contracts: 894
894-686 = 208 NOT 100. Also 208 contracts signed per week is a pretty good number this early in the spring market.
Also – there aren’t 894 contracts on places – that is only the number of contracts signed in the past week. There are over 7500 contracts signed in chicago (and 19,380 properties available). Do the math, bitch.
It’s pretty obvious when it’s not Doc but in fact Office Manager Debby.
“894-686 = 208 NOT 100. Also 208 contracts signed per week is a pretty good number this early in the spring market.”
A spring market where it’s 80 degrees for the first time in 140 years of Chicago history? A spring market where it will be 70 degrees for a week straight and everyone thinks it’s summer even though no trees have leaves? (also for the first time ever?)
Yeah- shoppers are out early. Look at last year’s numbers! There was still a foot of snow on the ground on this date a year ago. Normally, I wouldn’t say the weather matters that much- but this year it certainly has.
Also- you can’t argue “look at how great it is” when inventories are also down anywhere from 20% to 40% depending on what part of the city from just a year ago – and probably down 100% from 2007-2008.
So the number of closings will be up- but not by much. What did G say? 10%? It’s better than still going down. So I’ll take it. Any kind of improvement is good for the economy. But too many of the sales are still the distress sales- which isn’t a “normal” market. It’s far from it. Prices will continue to go down for the near future because of them. But you can cheerlead all you want.
And I hope some prospective sellers, like this one on Damen, are reading this. Because maybe some more interesting properties will get listed.
Hey- if things are so good HD, maybe all those high priced properties in Old Irving Park will magically start selling. You know- all the ones priced at like $800,000 and up that have been sitting for 2 or 3 or 4 years.
I can feel it. The market is roaring again (because Clio says it is.)
“Hey- if things are so good HD, maybe all those high priced properties in Old Irving Park will magically start selling. You know- all the ones priced at like $800,000 and up that have been sitting for 2 or 3 or 4 years.”
probably:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4057-N-Lowell-Ave-60641/home/13479706
yeah, the market is hot:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4330-N-Lowell-Ave-60641/home/13481271
Thanks for bringing up old irving park , sabrina. here is one that went under contract in 2 weeks!!!
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3700-N-Tripp-Ave-60641/unit-1ST/home/13457706
It’s only “hot” in your mind Clio.
I can do posts for weeks on all the old properties we’ve covered on this site that are STILL on the market months, years, decades (seemingly) later. Sure- some of them have finally sold (thank god) but many have not.
3919 n tripp has been on the market for years (yeah- a short sale but I don’t know why the bank hasn’t just taken it by now.) The historic house up the street was just withdrawn because they couldn’t get a sale (same with the other historic house we covered one block over. They finally delisted.)
3908 n kildare has been on the market 9 months and it’s going to take a big loss. But so far- no sale.
Actually- now that I’m looking- inventories are really low in Old Irving Park too. I’m not surprised there are two or three under contract. That’s not much for an area that size- but there’s not much listed either.
I see more properties going under contract, but I for one won’t rush into buying this time around even if it means I’ll end up buying at a higher price later.
While I generally agree with you Sabrina that we don’t have enough data to declare the market is hot, but I cannot help to think that a good chunk of properties featured on CC are condos converted from rentals at height of the market, duplex downs, vintage units with no W/D and parking some with very high assessments,… and so on. One can always pick overpriced or horrible properties and say they are not selling. It necessarily imply that the market is bad. We have to wait to see the overall sales (not just contracts) volume to make a call either way.
“Sure- some of them have finally sold (thank god) but many have not.”
“I see more properties going under contract, but I for one won’t rush into buying this time around even if it means I’ll end up buying at a higher price later.”
Why would you have to buy at a higher price miumiu when 52% of all sales last month were REOs/short sales?
What is going to pressure prices higher? As soon as sellers even THINK that the market is “turning” then they will rush to list (at some crazy high prices- of course) and inventories will balloon again. A 10% increase in sales for a few months this spring – coming off of the lowest number of sales in over 20 years- isn’t exactly going gangbusters.
I think the excitement over a couple of hundred extra contracts is amusing. Like I said earlier- it’s great for the economy if housing were to start to recover. But we’re in a housing recovery for “decades”- not a few years.
Hope you are right Sabrina. I want to buy one of those units in OMP east : )
“One can always pick overpriced or horrible properties and say they are not selling. It necessarily imply that the market is bad.”
Sure. No doubt about it.
But all the properties you listed as being somehow defective: duplex downs, vintage units with no w/d, condo conversion units- are STILL part of the market. Someone owns those properties and is trying to sell them- sometimes for years.
In a “good” market- buyers look past the flaws. In a “bad” market- not so much.
So which are we in?
“I wouldn’t pay more than 600k given what real SFHs sell for now.”
What do you think nice, newer SFHs sell for in this immediate area? Where’s the comparable quality “real” sfh for under $1.1m?
Inventory in OIP is really low, that’s why almost every livable property under $500;000 is under contract.
Contract activity has picked up, and things seem really busy because of the tight inventory. Invemtory is so low right now. Has thebmarket turned a corner? With respect to volume, maybe. Definitely not with respect to pricing.
“Has thebmarket turned a corner? With respect to volume, maybe. Definitely not with respect to pricing.”
Do you think that will effect prices?
Vlajos: Yes. while demand is increasing, it’s still not enough to offset the sheer number of foreclosures, short sales and underwater homeowners in the 5-10 year pipeline My buddy bought an $80k REO attached housing in the burbs. It’s not like there were mulitple bids or anything. THe non-REO’s are in the $120’s. Guess where most of the non-REO’s are headed? Guess what they’ll sell for? Volume may continue to slowly pick up as buyers improve credit scores and save downpayments; but that will be offset by the number of short sales and foreclosurse that continue to dominate teh marketplace.
“Do you think that will effect prices?”
Probably.. it’s definitely telling you something… Although I am also one of the few that expect foreclosures to be increasing as prices begin rising. That’s when I would foreclose on someones deadbeat ass.
“It’s now taking 4 months to close? Not if it’s a “normal” sale- it’s not. Heck- even an FHA sale can get done in 40 to 50 days now.”
I know of three homes in a small area that went under contract and took over 4 months to close. None were distressed sales. Anecdotal, I know.
Gringo: prices ain’t going to rise enough to make it worthwhile for the banks to foreclose. it’s a lot of work to determine this situatoin on a case by case basis .
I spoke with some DB attorney a few weeks ago who told me ALL of his deals close in 45 days. I said, really? all of your deals close in 45 days? really? You are either lying, or you don’t do many closings; because most properties in the MLS are taking forever.
“but that will be offset by the number of short sales and foreclosurse that continue to dominate teh marketplace.”
Do they really dominate the marketplace? (not trying to incite argument, actually really curious)
Is there data that shows percentage of inventory as ss/reo. % of contracts % of actual sales?
G gives the number and they’re a fairly substantial portion. dominate may be a strong word, but they’re a very unhealthy portion.
“I spoke with some DB attorney a few weeks ago who told me ALL of his deals close in 45 days. I said, really? all of your deals close in 45 days? really? You are either lying, or you don’t do many closings; because most properties in the MLS are taking forever.”
I posted this the other day in the January Market Conditions post.
Feb Chicago sfh/condo/th closed data with and without short sale/foreclosures (SS/F). “DOM” is days on market (list date to contract date) and “C-C” is days under contract (contract date to closing closing) data.
ALL 2012 2011 2010 2009
DOM med 101 108 84 125
DOM ave 167 174 152 175
C-C med 46 40 39 37
C-C ave 62 55 65 66
NO SS/F 2012 2011 2010 2009
DOM med 128 130 100 129
DOM ave 191 206 172 180
C-C med 46 42 42 38
C-C ave 56 55 78 77
SS/F 2012 2011 2010 2009
DOM med 84 88 69 119
DOM ave 146 143 130 165
C-C med 46 36 33 34
C-C ave 67 54 50 43
This doesn’t appear to jive with the conventional wisdom. This might shed some light on the contract number propaganda of the past 3 months. Perhaps, the SS/F contracts are falling out and/or being rewritten in significant numbers? That might explain how wrong the conventional wisdom is about short sale and foreclosure market times. It would also support how wrong the wisdom of applying historical contract fallout rates is in an increasing majority SS/F sales volume environment.
“Gringo: prices ain’t going to rise enough to make it worthwhile for the banks to foreclose.”
Yes I know that you are certain that the ball only falls on the left side of the center line of the distribution. You need to speak to Miu once she finishes filming the updated ethnic remake of Van Halens hot for teacher.
Interesting stuff G.. thanks
The median closing time is 46 days for regular and SS/F so half close less than 46 days and the other half is more than 46 days. Moreover, your figures capture only closed properties; there are plenty of properties under contract not yet closed that seem to lag forever, which seems to be a fairly new phenomenon.
“Moreover, your figures capture only closed properties; there are plenty of properties under contract not yet closed that seem to lag forever, which seems to be a fairly new phenomenon.”
As “new” as the increases in SS/F sales %, which it no doubt mirrors.
Speaking of which, here are the historical closed percentages of Chicago sfh/condo/th short sale/foreclosures. I post them monthly, but not together.
Jan 2009 25%
Feb 2009 31%
Mar 2009 37%
Apr 2009 37%
May 2009 33%
Jun 2009 29%
Jul 2009 28%
Aug 2009 28%
Sep 2009 30%
Oct 2009 36%
Nov 2009 29%
Dec 2009 34%
Jan 2010 42%
Feb 2010 46%
Mar 2010 38%
Apr 2010 31%
May 2010 29%
Jun 2010 28%
Jul 2010 39%
Aug 2010 40%
Sep 2010 44%
Oct 2010 39%
Nov 2010 39%
Dec 2010 43%
Jan 2011 50%
Feb 2011 50%
Mar 2011 49%
Apr 2011 46%
May 2011 38%
Jun 2011 33%
Jul 2011 33%
Aug 2011 34%
Sep 2011 36%
Oct 2011 44%
Nov 2011 43%
Dec 2011 44%
Jan 2012 49%
Feb 2012 52%
There is seasonality to the numbers since investors buy year round and make up a large % of SS/F purchasers. There is approx 2-3 years of shadow inventory already in the pipeline at 2010-11 SS/F sales levels in the GZ. In addition, new filings continue at high levels.
“Although I am also one of the few that expect foreclosures to be increasing as prices begin rising. That’s when I would foreclose on someones deadbeat ass.”
They have no idea how to manage the assets in the meantime, ze. The foreclosure moratoria are gone with the amnesty of the robo settlement. The inventory distortion that is currently fooling many will fool its creators as well. They are inexperienced with their swelling of shadow inventory. All of this supposed interest by potential suitors is sure to result in premature deshackalation.
Otherwise, the cynic in me says that the current hype is intended to assist the unloading before the full extent of the shadow inventory problem comes to light…
The homedebtors living in the foreclosures don’t know how to handle shadow inventory either as the years of deferred maintenance…leaky roofs, crumbling foundation, rotting wood, etc…..I’m a firm believer in the shadow inventory but these dumps are not necessarily going to attract the new and first home buyers so desperately needed in the market; and a good number of these foreclosures are in the collar counties where everyone is underwater; and the demand for 3,000 sq homes in the exurbs wanes as gas is over $4.00 a gallon…and the ghetto areas with foreclosures; well, welcome to Detroit! Those homes will never be worth anything, and entire city blocks all over the city return to the earth…And don’t forget the loan mods. They’re still out there, deferred principal balances and the like. One rolled across my desk today: 2% interest for 23.5 years with a 25% principal balance reduction after 3 years but it’s still $2,000 a month for that mcmansion in the outer reaches of the chicago sprawl…and the kicker? shared appreciation! 25% of any appreciation up to the original principal balance is ‘shared’ with the owner of the loan. That’ll work, right? Just wait until this 50 year old borrower retires at 62.5 to collect social security and just gives the house back to the bank. How much shared appreciation will there be in a house that hasn’t had any real maintenance for 15 years? ANd we’re not talking 1920’s quality brick construction – we’re talking vinyl over frame 3,000 sq feet of Pulte home greatness here. I don’t know what the final outcome will be years from now my opinion changes based upon all the new facts I see. Prices are going to drop in those exurbs and in those crapshacks but interior areas will probably lose less. I’d rather live in Skokie than Schaumburg, or even Spring Grove.
and furthermore, as someone who has become somewhat familiar with construction costs over the last few months/years; it’s not going to be cheap to renovate these crapshacks as they fall apart. And they literally fall apart. I know that Gen X + Gen Y is bigger than the entire boomer generation but it’s going to take another 12-15 years before today’s high school kids get to the point where they want to start buying homes in any meaningful numbers and at that point they’re going to look around at the battered landscape of falling apart exurbs, foreclosures, and the like; and there will be investors/rehabbers willing to contribute to society by fixing them up and selling them to todays youth. It used to be the domain of homebuilders to sell to the young with kids; but in 12-15 years it’s goodbye home builders (Except for some infill) and hello investors rehabbers turning those same crapshacks into livable properties, one by one, that is, if they can be saved….
dont worry the RE market will pick up and once the news gets out that its “hot again” the shadow inventory will flood the market bringing everyone back to reality
“I’m a firm believer in the shadow inventory but these dumps are not necessarily going to attract the new and first home buyers so desperately needed in the market”
People who bought used houses made up the vast majority of buyers in Chicago for many decades prior to the bubble. You are suggesting that these people no longer exist. I say that used homes are still acceptable to most, it’s just that used sellers are still stuck in a bubble. I think we are seeing just what the market for ‘new and updated’ is in the current non-ss/f sales levels. The foreclosures are coming from higher up on the price ladder now. So much of what we have seen to date were always dumps, and many were owned by fraudsters or pick up truck renovators. There was no reason for the banks to delay when there was no chance of getting any govt cheese through HAMP, HARP, etc. We’ll see what the next round brings…
“Prices are going to drop in those exurbs and in those crapshacks but interior areas will probably lose less.”
Was this ever in doubt?
“It used to be the domain of homebuilders to sell to the young with kids”
Conventional wisdom? I don’t know, since 85% of sales have historically been of existing homes.
“construction costs”
Construction costs are up because of the luxury bubble. Unlike evolving new car features, which sometimes increase safety, the additional dollars for “luxury” housing do not provide increased shelter. They can make you broke, though. Eventually, this realization will take hold.
“They have no idea how to manage the assets in the meantime, ze.”
G, I agree. They rarely do. It won’t be an increase in inventory that sets off the increase in foreclosure. It will have to be price. A price increase will trigger foreclosures. It’s the answer to the argument. Foreclosures will not be 0 at the bottom, they should increase as prices rise. That is when it is economically prudent to do so.
drove by this today and it’s under contract.
Seems like a decent place. Will be interested to see the closing price.