Hasn’t Been Available For 40 Years (And Now Reduced $100K): 809 W. Oakdale In Lakeview
This 3-bedroom vintage coach house in Gaslight Village at 809 W. Oakdale in Lakeview came on the market in February 2013.
If it looks familiar to long time Chatteratis it’s because we actually chattered about its twin, Coach House East, in 2010.
See our chatter about CHE here.
Back then, the sister coach house was bank owned. The listing said it needed some “TLC.”
It had a similar layout to the one that has just come on the market but it did NOT appear to have parking.
The sister coach house, #CHE, finally sold in August 2010 for $215,000 which was $30,000 UNDER the 1991 price.
The listing for Coach House West says it “hasn’t been available for 40 years.”
It has a 2 story unique round living room.
It also has 2 fireplaces, skylights and a rooftop deck.
The coach house has other features buyers look for including central air, washer/dryer in the unit and a 2 car attached garage.
But the monthly assessment is $1450 a month (3 years ago Coach House East’s assessment was $1440 a month). The listing says “PLEASE SEE ADDT’L INFO FOR ALL FEATURES THE ASSESSMENTS INCLUDE.”
The coach house was originally listed for $599,000 in February but recently reduced $100,000 to $499,000.
What price will induce a buyer?
Robert Adolfson at @Properties has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #CHW: 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 2000 square feet, 2 car parking
- Last sold 40 years ago
- Originally listed in February 2013 for $599,000
- Just reduced $100K
- Currently listed at $499,000
- Assessments of $1450 a month (includes gas)
- Taxes of $14860
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Rooftop deck
- Bedroom #1: 17×17 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 12×12 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 12×10 (main floor)
- Family room: 12×10 (main floor)
This is a dream dwelling. It’s large, dramatic, beautiful, and unusual and has all the advantages of a SF house, but with much better security and more convenience. The 2-car garage is also pretty exceptional, especially in a neighborhood where you’re fortunate if you can get even one covered parking space. It will offset the high HOA.
The HOA is really not bad when you consider it includes the gas bill, as well as all the things a condo HOA usually includes, but the taxes are terrible.
$15k in taxes
$1500 assesment
Neighbor comp at $215k
Looks like it is going to be an emotional buyer with a really great balance sheet! The good news is that the space is quite unique and extremely rare. Wish that there was a floor plan.
“Neighbor comp at $215k”
stop being ridiculous. that is not a comp. bummer that this house is not in nettelhorst school despite being pretty close to it.
so this place hasn’t sold in 40 years but somehow the taxes are that high?! By the looks of things these people should have a senior exemption in place.
Best case scenario even if you fight the taxes now are getting a couple grand knocked off.
And, yes those assessments are ridiculous. Considering this requires nearly a full gut, i would say 400,
wait wait wait!!!!!
$14,680 in taxes? for a place that doesnt own the land (shares it) and is only about a 30×31 foot print of the land?
and is berrios really saying that its assessed value is the same as a 1.5mil SFH?
“By the looks of things these people should have a senior exemption in place”
wtf? if its an exepmtion and not a freeze then the correct tax would be like $27k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“stop being ridiculous. that is not a comp. bummer that this house is not in nettelhorst school despite being pretty close to it.”
Isn’t a comp, or should not be a comp? Serious question. I get that it was bank owned and should be considered an exception. However, when trying to refiance or purchase a home, banks and appraisers use whatever sales info they can find. And if a comp within the same building supposedly trumphs a comp across the street, wouldn’t an identical property, with adjustments for needed TLC, be at least a starting point for a comp?
@jfmiii – not Nettlehorst, but pretty certain this is Alcott, which is comparable.
“is berrios really saying that its assessed value is the same as a 1.5mil SFH”
No. Its AV is around 90,000.
it looks like no exemptions are filed
also there have been 3 appeals 2003, 2009 and 2012
Where is G to explain the appeals and why they were not adjusted? also why the huge swing in ass value in 2003?
I was ready to move back to Lake View until I saw the property taxes and assessments – $1500 a month? On TOP of the taxes? Does that include a troubadour who delivers you pastries and coffee every morning?
” anon (tfo) (April 2, 2013, 9:27 am)
“is berrios really saying that its assessed value is the same as a 1.5mil SFH”
No. Its AV is around 90,000″
now i am really confused? how can it be 14k then?
“now i am really confused? how can it be 14k then?”
Um, that’s what taxes paid in 2012 were on a 90,000 AV. Exactly proportional to my taxes (adjusting for HO exemption).
Were your 2012 taxes *not* a little more than 1.5% of your AV? Are you *sure*?
The sale of the sister coach house is not a comp.
Something’s up with those taxes.
The assessments are high, and I say that as someone who routinely challenges those who complain about a unit’s high assessments. How much could the gas bill run on this place? There’s no staff or an elevator, and as far as we know it’s not a co-op, so I don’t see how the fee can be so high.
But even with the high assessments, Laura is right: what’s a comparably dramatic/unique home, with a two car garage and roof deck, going to run you in the general vicinity? Someone’s buying this in the $400’s for sure.
Hey guys. Just got back from an AWESOME spring break with the fam! We went to a Sandals all inclusive in Jamaica as usual and I gotta say…I think I got my money’s worth in daiquiris. Hey, it’s 5 o’clock somewhere, right mon? A good motto to live your life by, in my opinion. Actually, not a bad idea for a sign for my wife to make. I think it would sell pretty well. Anyways, I am getting sidetracked here but the point I wanted to make was that this place looks like a rundown beach house from down in Jamaica. Those mirrors, that decorating, the tribal masks, that ugly wooden barrister. This place needs some granite and some wrought iron to bring it into this millennium. Wouldn’t you agree or are all those daiquiris Jamaican me crazy, mon? LOL!
“ugly wooden barrister”
Jamaicans use lawyers for decoration? That that was more a voodoo (ie Haiti) thing.
Any chance the taxes include both coach houses?
“Any chance the taxes include both coach houses?”
Assessor has pins for 2 coach house units with an 809 address, and the other one featured on CC had $13k taxes, too, so not likely.
“Um, that’s what taxes paid in 2012 were on a 90,000 AV. ”
so the AV is out of whack not the rate. then berrios is saying this is a 900k-1.1 million dollar home? when the west coach house never sold for more than 700k in the peak of 2006?
it also seems strange that none of the 3 appeals fixed this?
“Were your 2012 taxes *not* a little more than 1.5% of your AV? ”
correct, it was around 1.5% i think really 1.63%. now i am one of the lucky ones where my AV is lower than what I could sell my place for. i feel bad for the folk we sell it to as i will most likely go up for them.
even with the tax situation and the ass fees at 499k this awesome place is a fricken steal!!!!!!!!
the lack of windows and real sized windows are what hurt it IMO.
even with the tax situation and the ass fees at 499k this awesome place is a fricken steal!!!!!!!!
the lack of windows and real sized windows are what hurt it IMO.
compared to this coach its still a great price http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1845-N-Halsted-St-60614/unit-UA/home/12584710
“compared to this coach its still a great price ”
For them to be at monthly cost parity (taxes, assessments, interest (imputed or actual), adjust for paid gas bill), this one would need to sell for about $50,000–90% off ask. I’d call the parking and the size diff (if any) a wash with the location diff.
The other unit was what brought me to CC in the first place. Love the uniqueness of it, and it’s in Alcott, but those taxes and HOA fees are unreal.
But isn’t a little over 1.5% of 90,000 closer to $1486 than $14860?
“But isn’t a little over 1.5% of 90,000 closer to $1486 than $14860?”
1.5% of the assessor’s ‘market value’ which is 10x the AV. Sorry for confusion.
“I’d call the parking and the size diff (if any) a wash with the location diff.”
actually after thinking about it, and window situation, this place maybe over priced if compared to the halsted place. but the 2 car garage parking here is huge factor, even considering its only 1.5 miles down one street in location difference.
so with you calc of 50k which would you pick of the two if you could get this one for 450k?
Cool place, shame about the taxes + assessments, that will really bring down the sale value
“so with you calc of 50k which would you pick of the two if you could get this one for 450k?”
Wasn’t clear–for them to be price neutral on a monthly basis, the sale price of this one would need to be $50,000 (ie, not 50k less, *450k* less, as in, this one would have to sell for the down payment amount on the other–assuming that the taxes can’t somehow get reduced). And, notwithstanding the mere 1.5 mile diff, the hoods are quite diff., and the relative demand I think balances the extra parking spot. Or you could say the extra spot is worth $50k, and then the monthly-cost neutral price for this one doubles to $100k.
Basically, I’m saying that, over a 5 (or 10 or 20) year period living in the place, assuming appreciation is a wash, the Halsted ch would cost much much less than this one, unless this one gets a *lot* cheaper on the sale price..
OK, anon(tfo) have you figured out what the true square footage is? Does the following include the air space over the LR and/or the deck? “OVER 2000 SQ FT OF LIVING SPACE ON 2 LEVELS WITH A ROOFTOP DECK”
That building next door looks like a Red Roof Inn motel. lesko, you’re right about the decor, I see another Baphomet head on the fireplace in the Master bd.
“Wasn’t clear–for them to be price neutral on a monthly basis, the sale price of this one would need to be $50,000”
sorry glanced over the reading, i did the calc over 15 years at 3% rate no DP and assuming taxes and ass fee stay flat and adding in the gas bill for halsted i come up with a sale price of 325k for it to be even over 15 years. I also used the assumption that parking and sqft is not a factor. also didnt discount for better hood as it bieng on a main street washes it out.
” i come up with a sale price of 325k for it to be even”
Now you’re going to make me actually do the math:
Annual costs:
1845 = $7300 (tax) + [12*231=] 2772 (ass) + 1500 (~my annual gas bill) + [569,500 * .035=] 19950 (int, imputed + real) = 31522
This = 31522 – 14860 – [12*1450=] 17400 = -738 available to pay interest (real or imputed).
So, actually, as compared to the Halsted place at $569k, this place is a *liability* if given to you for *free*. Yeahyeah, need to assume that the Halsted ass’n is reserving adequately for future capex stuff, but same applies here.
$1450 minus heat, in monthly assessments? I couldn’t spend that much a *month* maintaining my sfh if I wanted to. That’s one big reason why I’m not big on the whole condo thing, although I’m guessing I’ll end up in one at some point in my much later elderly life. I get the convenience thing of an apartment, but I thought that owning a slice of the pie was supposed to be cheaper than owning the whole pie.
“Now you’re going to make me actually do the math”
here is my maths annualized
oakdale: (sale at 325k)
mortgage at 3% over 15y no DP= $26,932
Tax= $14,680
ass fee (minus 2400 for gas)= $15,000
yearly= $56,612
All in over 15 years= $849,190
halsted: (sale at 569k)
mortgage at 3% over 15y no DP= $47,152
Tax= $7,297
ass fee = $2,227
yearly= $57,221
All in over 15 years= $858,320
*yes yada yada many assumptions are assumed flat and missing many variables that can swing over 15 years.
am i missing something or my assumptions diff from yours?
I don’t know how appeals work in Cook County, but here in Lake County you can appeal the taxes using your sale price once you close, there’s no way the assessor can claim these two places have a market value of 800,000 if one sells for 200 and one sells for 450, even if you gut reno’d them it would have take some seriously upscale finishes to make either of them worth 800,000.
“am i missing something or my assumptions diff from yours?”
You’re including the principal reduction piece of the mortgage.
Try it with a cash purchase, but assigning 3% imputed interest to the cash price. Then it will look even worse than my example (which reminded me how my quick calc led me to $50k–I used 4% interest), as the cost of funding the 1845 loan goes down.
“I don’t know how appeals work in Cook County, but here in Lake County you can appeal the taxes using your sale price once you close, there’s no way the assessor can claim these two places have a market value of 800,000 if one sells for 200 and one sells for 450, even if you gut reno’d them it would have take some seriously upscale finishes to make either of them worth 800,000.”
hahaha. You expect Cook County to *not* act like a criminal enterprise? That’s not at all the way it works, as the ‘system’ in Cook just ‘assumes’ you got a ‘deal’. Need stuff in the same assessment cateory and same assessor ‘hood to be selling for less, too.
Not that I believe for a second that it is possible that these places are accurately assessed even under the system in place. But they just appealed last year, and got no further reduction beyond the ~10% reduction from the trienneal (which gives me hope that my taxes won’t rise, as I had a bigger reduction; still hoping for, but not expecting, an actual decrease in the tax bill).
“You’re including the principal reduction piece of the mortgage.
Try it with a cash purchase, but assigning 3% imputed interest to the cash price. ”
under that scenario even free would be a burden!
and in reality if the new sale price doesn’t fix the assessment value then its even worse going forward as taxes will increase and the in crease on 14k will be larger than 7k.
As we discuss with the pre-war’s on LSD, will the ever increasing Ass fee’s and tax burden make the places unsellable? or will you have to pay to give the place away?
RE: “hahaha. You expect Cook County…”
Cook County assessed value can be successfully challenged. I did it twice on my property in Lakeview. I purchased in 2011, challenged AV as quickly as I was allowed and AV was reduced to my 2011 purchase price (a 38% reduction in AV).
2 months later they jacked my AV meaningfully higher (the 2013 AV I recall). I challenged it again and had it reduced back to my purchase price.
In the case of the Oakdale property, both coach house sales prices will be meaningfully lower than current AV. If you follow the process/rules VERY, VERY carefully, file in triplicate, it’s a recent purchase, and you have a corresponding appraisal, my experience shows it’s 100% doable.
“my experience shows it’s 100% doable.”
Doable, yes; to be expected, no. This place has been appealed 3 times, and has always remained assessed higher than the sister unit ever sold. You, too, are expecting Cook County to not act like a criminal enterprise.
“This place has been appealed 3 times”
the first appeal in 2003 is the one i am trying to understand. it looks like the AV quadrupled and it was only lowered a smidge of the huge jump.
how is that jump not criminal? and the fact the owner after 3 tries cant get it normalized?
““am i missing something or my assumptions diff from yours?””
I would jump in and help with the math but I am busy calculating how many feet you can walk with a fart in a cup before the smell diminishes by more than 37.35%, as I have previously calculated 62.65% to be the necessary percentage of a beer fart in a cup to offend someone who you will then ask if this cup smells funny.
The best time to appeal is immediately after YOU PURCHASE a property. I’ve heard that getting a uniformity appeal without a recent purchase is almost impossible (as these 3 appeals show).
In other words, they don’t care if you’ve owned for 15 years but your neighbor’s property just sold at $x. But, as my experience shows, they will grant an appeal when: you buy your property for $x, several neighbor’s properties recently sold for $x, your bank says your property is worth $x.
The last 3 appeals on THIS unit were not because THIS unit sold at a lower price. It’ll be a strong case for the next buyer.
And, you are assuming this homeowner applied properly, had all the necessary documentation, etc. That’s a big assumption. Most people are idiots and cannot follow detailed instructions, stand before a judge or city clerk, navigate the system as instructed, and say “yes, sir. Thank you, sir”. . Oh, and a good attitude helps. Resentment and contemt are not appreciated by the authorities.
“a good attitude helps. Resentment and contemt are not appreciated by the authorities.”
just like the mob.
“you are assuming this homeowner applied properly”
No, I’m not. I am assuming that the TAX APPEAL LAWYERS the owner hired (twice!) applied properly. And not some divorce lawyer doing tax appeals, an actual r.e. tax shop.
Listen, it worked for you but that is *not* a truism that the last sale of a property will dictate the AV in Cook County. See http://www.cookcountyassessor.com/propertyvaluation.aspx for the real process, which does not give the actual sale of a property as anything more than one of many considered sales.
Maybe it was my positive attitude and pleasant demeanor that did the trick (I did not use a lawyer). Actual results may vary.
I shared my experience to help those that might benefit from it. Your mind is closed to the possibility it will work, so your that will affect your degree of success.
Godspeed.
“Your mind is closed to the possibility it will work”
No, it’s not. I am realistic about the machinations of the Cook political process. I don’t want anyone considering buying a property to *depend* on a tax appeal being successful, no matter how much lower the actual purchase price is than the assessor’s ‘market value”.
If this place sells for $400,000, to someone *relying* on the AV getting reduced to something less than 50,000, I would prefer they have their eyes open to the genuine possibility that there will be *NO* AV reduction, and their taxes will remain the same as a ‘properly assessed’ $820,000 property.
As I said, great for you, but it is NOT *necessarily* replicable.
Anon is unequivocably correct.
Property taxes aren’t determined foremost by property value, but rather by the levy. The county and city have a vested interest – that of survival at its purest form- in ensuring that it all comes out a wash at worst after all the appeals are said and done, otherwise the schools and everything else dependant on property taxes would be shorted.
TB, nobody is arguing you weren’t successful, but your example can’t be replicated on a mass scale any more than everybody can be above average.
I also successfully appealed my taxes for this year, we’ll see if the 30% reduction in assessed value leads to a reduction in amount due though…
LOL. I hope people who gave my post the thumbs down aren’t involved in government policy, just stating the facts of how our taxation system works here.
“I hope people who gave my post the thumbs down aren’t involved in government policy”
I just assume that it’s Berrios’s relatives–on the payroll, but not really “involved”.
LOL. My taxes are 38% lower for the next 3 years! Just stating thre facts here.
“Just stating [the] facts here”
One anecdote is not data. Your experience is not *necessarily* replicable under the facts of another buyer.
Would you be willing to act as the tax appeal representative for others who just purchased and *guarantee* they see a reduction to their purchase price (assuming adequate compensation for those you do win)? That’s the test.
I am not a lawyer and I have a day job, so.. no.
BUT:
I can *guarantee* that I am saving 38% for the next 3 years.
I can *guarantee* that the system worked for me, with no legal representation.
I can *guarantee* that my appeal cost me $0, so I only had upside.
I can *guarantee* that your self-proclaimed knowledge of the tax appeals process is not absolute, or I would have lost my appeal.
I can *guarantee* that I’m just trying to be helpful to others who might like to save money.
I can *guarantee* that you are overwhelmingly negative in your thinking.
I can *guarantee* that a positive attitude is the very key to success and overcoming obstacles in life.
And, I can *guarantee* that you have some personality disorder that:
1) Requires that you claim omnipotence
2) Must have the last word on all subjects (whether correct or incorrect)
“LOL. My taxes are 38% lower for the next 3 years! Just stating thre facts here.”
so you are saying if i appeal my taxes in your way i can lower my bill?
I don’t think you’re actually understanding the point.
By definition, the system can not work for everyone, as it based on the City requiring a fixed amount for its budget (aka “the levy”). There is certainly wiggle room when you are dealing with so many properties and variables, but everyone can’t appeal their taxes and get a break, it is quite simply impossible by definition.
That said, if you can make the system work for you, go for it – but understand what you are doing, which is just passing the tax burden on to others.
“And, I can *guarantee* that you have some personality disorder that:
1) Requires that you claim omnipotence
2) Must have the last word on all subjects (whether correct or incorrect)”
“I can *guarantee* that your self-proclaimed knowledge of the tax appeals process is not absolute, or I would have lost my appeal.”
Hey, mr/s-I-failed-reading-comprehension, I’ve said *every* time that it’s simply not guaranteed. YOU are the one implying an absolute based on your personal experience. Bully for you; but what worked for you is NOT going to work for everyone. Period, end of story.
Hey, dipshit: Re-read my original post:
“In the case of the Oakdale property, both coach house sales prices will be meaningfully lower than current AV. If you follow the process/rules VERY, VERY carefully, file in triplicate, it’s a recent purchase, and you have a corresponding appraisal, my experience shows it’s 100% doable.”
I made no guarantees. I did not speak in generalities or absolutes, about everyone, or every time. I stated that the next buyer of this property,809 W Oakdale CHE, had a shot at an appeal. You chose to extrapolate my comments. That speaks poorly for your reading comprehension, not mine.
TB posted “The best time to appeal is immediately after YOU PURCHASE a property. I’ve heard that getting a uniformity appeal without a recent purchase is almost impossible (as these 3 appeals show). In other words, they don’t care if you’ve owned for 15 years but your neighbor’s property just sold at $x. But, as my experience shows, they will grant an appeal when: you buy your property for $x, several neighbor’s properties recently sold for $x, your bank says your property is worth $x. The last 3 appeals on THIS unit were not because THIS unit sold at a lower price. It’ll be a strong case for the next buyer.”
FWIW I wondered how purchaser made out after buying CHE for $215K in 2010 . New owner appealed post purchase and utilized same connected tax specialist att’y but only received lowered AV for 1 year (2011 AV lowered to $73,672 indicating market value of $736K in face of recent open market purchase at $215K) – and CHE’s 2012 appeal was rejected, ending up with identical AV to this property (2012 AV = $89,053).
But Southbound, that owner *obviously* screwed up by using a solicitor, rather than simply being solicitous, and maintaining a positive mindset. If s/he had simply used the TB method, then it would have worked out fine, and with a 75% reduction!