Have Summer Dinner Parties on Your Penthouse Terrace: 3750 N. Lake Shore Drive in Lakeview
This 2 bedroom penthouse at 3750 N. Lake Shore Drive in Lakeview just came on the market.
I am always insanely curious about the penthouses in these big pre-war buildings along Lake Shore Drive because they were built for the truly rich. (And they rarely come on the market.)
So they must be unique- right?
This penthouse is a duplex with not just one, but two, private 25×12 terraces on the main level.
Enclosed with brick, these are the kinds of terraces you see in the movies.
The kitchen has an atrium along with maple cabinets, stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops.
There is a wine cellar and two fireplaces.
The unit also has central air and a washer/dryer in the unit. Parking, however, is not in the building but is available next door.
At 3350 square feet, the penthouse also has a lower level “gym”.
This is a full service building with a doorman and a pool.
For the square footage and amenities, is this priced to sell at under $900,000?
Janet Owen at Prudential Rubloff has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #17PH: 2 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 3350 square feet
- It’s a co-op so I don’t have a prior purchase price
- Currently listed at $895,000
- Assessments of $2823 a month (includes heat, cable, doorman, pool)
- Taxes of $8140
- Building accepts 80% financing
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- No parking – available next door
- 2 fireplaces
- Wine cellar
- 2 private terraces:25×12 each
- Bedroom #1: 18×18 (lower level)
- Bedroom #2: 15×12 (main level)
- Gym: 12×11 (lower level)
- Kitchen: 19×14 (main level)
When I read atrium in kitchen I was thinking it would be gorgeous. No so. I would think that this place would be all about the views, but doesn’t seem to be. Still, I think the price is good. It’s HUGE, in a beautiful building, and the outdoor spaces put it over the top for me.
Anyone want to throw out some comps?
Oh excellent a koi pond in case if more than 3 of your guests get food poisoning at one of your swanky summer dinner parties
Would I rent this place for $3,500 (the cost of the assessment & taxes)? Yes
Would I pay $895k for the privilege of doing so? No
Honestly, this place is gorgeous and other than parking concerns I can’t imagine any person not wanting to live here. I’d be interested to see the reserves and a budget for this building.
Seem very reasonable to me, even with the sky-high assessments. Gorgeous unique place (and unbelievable art collection, but I doubt that is included). And if you can rent a place like this for $3500, let me know where — this would go for far more than that.
this place is awesome on so many levels…i can see why places like this don’t come on the market that often.
i would love to live in a place like this.
Very unique space. A place like this could get snatched up and be off the market again for the next 20 years. The chatter about $3,500 rental is ridiculous. A place like this would rent for $7,500+ a month. I love the outdoor space! Since it is a co-op, do the dues include the property taxes?
Stunning! Love this place. I don’t see it as outrageously priced. It would be hard to get something as unique as this and done this well, with that kind of outdoor space.
Bonus….I could cancel my gym membership since they have a lap pool
oops…just noticed the no pets. my dog would love to lounge on those terraces đ
“unbelievable art collection, but I doubt that is included”
You’d want that unpleasing stuff? Look at that ugly face in the dining room! ugh.
Maybe they’ll throw in the bottle of champagne on the patio table?
we understand this is almost irving park road right?! for a 2/2.5 bath it seems (say it with me now…over priced. A couple DINKS could love this place, but would be wise not to pay about 750k.
“âunbelievable art collection, but I doubt that is includedâ
Youâd want that unpleasing stuff? Look at that ugly face in the dining room! ugh.”
Judging by the Ed Paschkes alone, I’d estimate at least a million in art. Not all to my taste, but they’re definitely serious collectors.
“oopsâŚjust noticed the no pets.”
Really? a million dollar pad and you can’t bring Fido along. Now I want to buy it just to walk away from it and send the building realing into “gasp we have an expensive foreclosure” HELL
“Judging by the Ed Paschkes alone”
Lithos (editions, if you prefer), no? Certainly based on the matting and framing.
Million dollars? how much do they sell for, here’s an oil on canvas (not some litho/numbered print bullshit) that sold for $62K. titled Sabreena: http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=5335678
“Lithos (editions, if you prefer), no? Certainly based on the matting and framing.”
Very possible, anon — not cheap, but not the same as the original painting. Still, good collection.
“Very possible, anon â not cheap, but not the same as the original painting”
If they framed and matted the original of fem-rouge (tracked it down) like that, they are deserving of massive scorn. Apparently an edition of 50. Seems to trade not infrequently, but w/o signing up, only price I find is $1830, in Sep-08. A fem-verde sold the same day for $1586.
Wonderful home, but I agree with Trudi and Icarus….no pets, no million dollars. Even if I didn’t have a dog, I wouldn’t want to spend that much money in a building where they make such stupid rules.
We need to find a comp in a pet friendly building!
I loathe to think of the types that sit on the board of this building. I wonder what their H.O.A meetings are like.
Fine — I totally overshot on the art collection. I still like it.
The “face” artwork is a Cameron Gray. Probably $12-$15k
I actually find the place pretty ugly. It is interesting how everyone thinks it is nice.
cool place but Fack – $3K in association fees.
Slit my wrists now.
And “parking just next door”
Fack again – I’ll take that 2/1 Bungalow in Jeff Park
“cool place but Fack â $3K in association fees”
Condos/Co-ops are NOT single family homes. How many times do we have to hear “those are high association fees.” Whine, whine.
Because this is a 3300 square foot unit in a large building. The HOA is not that outrageous compared to units of the same size in much newer buildings (which also have a pool.) I hate to tell people. It is the reality of high rise living.
If you can’t deal with it- don’t buy in one. But quit whining about it on every post.
i like the pool
I don’t have a problem with the sky-high assessments, but do not find the place at all appealing – seems very out of character for teh building.
p.s. way overzealous on the photo editing
The photos do look pretty cool, but a 3300 sf 2 BR? Seems like an incredible waste of space. And it seems the terraces take away the lake views from inside the rooms. And why live in a LSD high rise if not for the view?
The assessment of $2800 a month for this huge unit with its private terraces is really a lot more reasonable than the $1400 or so assessments charged for the ordinary 1200 sq ft 2 bed 2 bath units in this very building that I once looked at. Those were very ordinary simplex 5 room apts with no roofs of their own or terraces or atriums.
If you can pay $895K for a place, $2800 a month for assessments shouldn’t trouble you. This has always been a high maintenance building. It has an indoor pool and 11 elevator tiers.
About the “stupid rules” in this building.. this building is well-known to have one of the snottiest boards of any building on the drive. Have heard from a few former owners that the board here is impossible to get along with. Prospective buyers are scrutinized exhaustively, and every detail of your financial life will be discussed, the excuse for this being that the board wants to make sure you can handle the cost of living here.
While I understand and sympathize with that concern, especially after watching so many condo owners buried by the assessment arrears left behind by defaulting owners, I would personally be unwilling to submit to this kind of scrutiny.
That and the “no pets” rule make this an undesirable building even for many people who can afford it.
“Youâd want that unpleasing stuff? Look at that ugly face in the dining room! ugh.”
That’s the nice thing about decorating with a lot of artwork. Get tired of something, take it down and put up something even uglier. I do it all the time. Creates a nice sense of change and movement in ones life.
I assure you people that come over spend a great deal of time interpreting things in it. It’s nice to watch people in your home, being stimulated by something other than your TV.
“Prospective buyers are scrutinized exhaustively, and every detail of your financial life will be discussed”
At this price point? I think my consistent reply of “go fuck yourself” would exclude me from ever living here.
Did anyone else notice it’s on the northwest side of the building, not the lake side? That’s my assessment from looking at the photos. No wonder it’s discounted. Why pay $900,000 and $3,000 a month for a 2 BR with no parking on LSD if it doesn’t even have lake views?
I understand the appeal of this unit. It’s dramatic, and has interesting outdoor space. If you were really wealthy with no kids and wanted to pay $3,000 a month for a place on LSD with a snotty board, no pets, no views (from inside) and no parking, I guess it would work.
Myself, I’d rather pay one-third of the price for a unit at 3300 LSD with a lake view and $900 assessments. I’d still have no parking, but it’s a better neighborhood, the vintage feel is there and the building allows pets and is a condo, not a co-op, so no stressful, snobby board approval process.
Regarding assessments – they absolutely need to be factored into the price of a unit even for high priced apartments that will be purchased by affluent buyers. Assessments are even more relevant now that interest rates are so low. To determine the present value of a recurring payment a quick estimate is (yearly payment) / long term interest rate. So for this unit $2823*12 = $33,876. PV = 33876 / .0313 = $1,082,300. These assessments are $0.86 / sqr foot. Most condos are closer to 60-70c so this costs you 21c above average = $270k of value. Also – that calculation above assumes assessments don’t rise – and we know they will – so it underestimates the PV of the assessments.
“Why pay $900,000 and $3,000 a month for a 2 BR with no parking on LSD if it doesnât even have lake views?”
I agree re: the views, and especially the parking (and other than the quick access to the park/lakefront, it’s not a great location in terms of walking out to stuff in the immediate hood). As for the lack of lake views, some silver linings are (i) perhaps there’s no LSD noise (especially on the terraces) and (ii) while a lake view is great, there’s something to be said for facing north, west or (especially) south at night. I’m frequently in a place that pretty much has all four views; the lakeviews are amazing from sunrise and throughout the day, but the west is nice at sunset, and the north, south and west look great at night.
“Itâs nice to watch people in your home, being stimulated by something other than your TV.”
yes anything to distract people from talking about their job that I don’t care about
“yes anything to distract people from talking about their job that I donât care about”
I like you more and more!
3350 sqft and it is a 2 bd? 2,000 sqft of hallways?
Lake views are a black hole at night. We have a lake view in Madison and it is fine during the day. At night, not so much. In Chicago from our dĂŠclassĂŠ 2+2 (the building has been referred to as the “clunker bunker” on Joe Z’s site) we have an amazing city view with lots of high rise buildings lit up at night. Very enjoyable to look at. We can even see some of the Navy Pier fireworks if they are shot high enough up in the air.
The city views of this place, as shown in the pictures, do not impress. For us, views (and price) were the absolutely critical point in making the decision.
Anonny,
Agree that west views can be great, especially at night. I used to live high up on the northwest side of an LP high rise, and Ioved watching planes land and take off at O’Hare (we could even see the control tower through binoculars). And on July 3 and July 4, we would watch fireworks going off in all directions to the horizon. The lake view is a bit dull at night. Luckily, three windows in our place faced directly east, so we could enjoy the peaceful park and lake views during the day.
Man, I miss that place. Time to get a pied-a-terre.
Lake views are a black hole at night. We have a lake view in Madison and it is fine during the day. At night, not so much. In Chicago from our dĂŠclassĂŠ 2+2 (the building has been referred to as the âclunker bunkerâ on Joe Zâs site) we have an amazing city view with lots of high rise buildings lit up at night. Very enjoyable to look at. We can even see some of the Navy Pier fireworks if they are shot high enough up in the air.
The city views of this place, as shown in the pictures, do not impress. For us, views (and price) were the absolutely critical point in making the decision.
Why are condo associations screwed when foreclosed homes accrue unpaid assessments? Don’t they have a lien on that when the property sells? Is it just that the association has to wait for the place to sell or is there another reason?
You generally only get the last 6 months of unpaid assessments.
Plus there is the whole cash flow issue in the meantime
Snobby co-op boards……old friend of mine, guy now over 70 yrs old, told me a story about his attempt to buy into one of the co-ops downtown. It was either 1420 N Lake Shore or 1440, I forget which.
Anyway… he was wealthy, could well afford to pay cash for one of these huge places. But he had to be interviewed and approved by the co-op board, of course. He was a very handsome man of Eastern European extraction and spoke with a heavy accent.
Well, he was interviewed by some very snotty older woman of a type you used to see a lot of around there thirty or forty years ago- every hair glued into place, Peck & Peck cardigan sweater, pearl necklace, and abundant attitude.
“Well, how do you intend to pay for the apartment?” she asked, in a condescending tone.
My friend leaned back in his chair, lit a CIGAR, and blew smoke rings in her face. Licking his lips and grinning, he replied: “I intend to open a whore house here. Is that OK?” Then he smiled and left, after telling her to take the coop and shove it.
Laura, well told.
“Laura, well told.”
Wait–you’re over 70, know Laura, and speak with a slavic accent? My image is totally blown!
“and speak with a slavic accent”
Slav – Khazer… close enough đ
Her story made me laugh… I liked the structure, and how she told it.
Amazing story Laura! I love it!
At the risk of pissing off Sabrina with more assessment chatter: Since you appear to be the vintage high rise expert, could you elaborate generally on the financial condition of some of these pre-war buildings along LSD. More specifically, are the assessments so high because the buildings are inherently inefficient to heat and cool, or are the assessments so high because they stash away an overly conservative amount to reserves in preparation for drastic repairs that will be needed? I know it is expensive to maintain a pool and eleven elevator banks, but the $1,400 assessment for the 1,200 square foot units just seems excessive. Is there any chance that the condo board and/or management company is just really bad at managing expenses in these buildings and there could be room for cost cutting in order to unlock value for would be buyers?
Whether or not we want to admit it, there is definitely a correlation between high carrying costs and lower values in these buildings. There are only so many wealthy buyers in Chicago who want to purchase a place for close to $1 million in a high rise while paying a beginner teacher’s salary in taxes/assessments each year.
Sabrina or Laura – are co-op sales not a matter of public record, therefore we can expect the taxes to remain incredibly low for this property? I’ve also seen some confusing listings for these types of buildings where the assessment includes taxes, but then there is also a separate tax amount listed. Is there any explanation for that situation?
“markatoolio”
to help a bit, property taxes are most times part of the assessment on co-ops. take that part out and its a bit closer to reality
The assessments are high in Co-ops mainly because of taxes being included (that part is tax decuctable woo!), as well as the building being old and having higher maintenance costs and higher reserve funding than a newer building
Co-op corps can borrow money, so another difference with condo assessments is to pay for any underlying mortgages. Your share of the interest paid is deductible. Underlying co-op mortgages most often originate at the time of conversion (not many in Chicago due to age of co-op corps), but also for special assessments.
The subject’s $2,843 assmt does not include taxes. There is a special assessment that is being paid for the bldg, don’t know if anything is in that number.
Here are some units in the bldg that show assmt breakdowns:
#15F Assmt $2720 = BASE $1467.43, TAXES $567.34, SPECIAL $617.46, CABLE $68.24
#4F Assmt $2697 = cable, 68.10, electric (based on usage) 72.44, taxes 419, special 579.27, asm 1557.76
#1F Assmt $1530 = BASE $898.71; BALCONY $15.60; CABLE TV $39.29; TAXES $241.73; SPECIAL $334.19
#10C $2,684 = Basic $1,391.79, Tax $546.14, Cable $65.69, Special $594.39, Electric $86.10.
I know people who live in this building. Sucks for them.
Special assessments usually mean insufficient reserves, which means bad management.
I believe that the high assessments in these buildings is due to all the factors mentioned- intrinsically high costs to heat and run common area elements, plus bad management, and maintaining a high reserve, which last is very necessary to insure against special assessment shock.
The quality of management varies a lot in these buildings. Well-run buildings that stay up on their maintenance almost never have special assessments because they know when large items will need to be repaired or replaced and plan for things like new roofs (very expensive if you have a copper mansard with lots of ornamentation, for example), tuckpointing (MONSTROUS expense), new boilers and pipes, parking garage rehab, curtain wall rehab, just to name a few big-ticket repairs. What astonishes me is how many wealthy buildings let stuff like this get totally out of hand to the point where the place is literally falling apart, when they could have gotten things taken care of for half the cost if they’d acted in time, and if they’d saved enough money in the reserve fund not to have to finance the job. So when I see a lot of special assessments, I know it’s a badly-run building where people defer essential maintenance until things are leaking and creaking almost everywhere and the building is almost unlivable.
If a selling agent can’t tell you how many special assessments a building has or will have in the near future and how much they will be for, forget about the place.
Which makes me think of 3500 N LSD- how come so many apartments are for sale at one time? Is there an assessment coming up? I haven’t heard of any major work being done on that place for a long time, so some major jobs might be coming due. Would make sure before I bought.
I’d love to see someone create a GoogleDoc spreadsheet with the cost of ownership for a SFH; plug in all yearly maintenance and upkeep. Then next to that create one for a condo with all that goes with the association fee on a per sq ft basis.
Under all of the crud and lopsided opinions on this site there is a lot of collective knowledge. It would be interesting to see it come together in something like this.
” the cost of ownership for a SFH; plug in all yearly maintenance and upkeep.”
Hard to do with the lumpy, larger items which few homeowners truly “reserve” for, and many will not experience during the live of their ownership. eg, tuckpointing or roof replacement on a newcon SFH.
” goes with the association fee on a per sq ft basis”
Based on whose measurement of the SF? Do SFH owners get to count “outdoor living” space?
That said, it would be cool. One more thing to add to the wiki.
“Hard to do with the lumpy, larger items which few homeowners truly âreserveâ for, and many will not experience during the live of their ownership. eg, tuckpointing or roof replacement on a newcon SFH.”
I have done something similar for investment properties. Pretty much everything except the land has a replacement life and is amortized with the yearly maintenance estimate for cost of ownership. Tuck pointing and roofs have predictable life spans and whether you pay for the eventual repair or not the condition at the time of sale ‘should’ have an effect on sale price.
“Based on whose measurement of the SF? Do SFH owners get to count âoutdoor livingâ space?”
Based on the person plugging in the numbers. Outdoor living space could also be optional to the user, but I imagine the 600sf of terrace space on this place is factored in the $2823/mo fee.
“My friend leaned back in his chair, lit a CIGAR, and blew smoke rings in her face. Licking his lips and grinning, he replied: âI intend to open a whore house here. Is that OK?â Then he smiled and left, after telling her to take the coop and shove it.”
Ha, looks like the lady was smart. She accomplished her goal, which was to see this man go away. Her intuitions were right, also as this man proved himself to be crude and crass. Probably was a Khazar, Ze.
“as this man proved himself to be crude and crass, Probably was a Khazar, Ze.”
Probably. But let’s be grateful he wasn’t Irish, and that you weren’t trying to keep that melanin challenged Roman Catholic lil’ leprauchaun away from his “precious” alcohol.
Gerard Finneran. What kinda last name is that?
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Gerard_Finneran (The writing style is the same as The Groove)
My friend was a beautifully dressed man with fine manners, a man who could move in almost any circle and was very charming, but he was clearly not a WASP. He had had no previous exposure to the cashmere cardigan-and-pearl necklace crowd. Oh, I should have mentioned she first asked him where he went to church, which surely wasn’t 4th Presbyterian. When he looked at her like she was insane, like “why are you asking me this”, she then asked him how he would pay for the place.
Her condescension and snotty attitude elicited the rude behavior.
A co-op board that would query me on where I go to church could just keep searching for a buyer for the high-maintenance apt in the badly-managed old pile of a building. A wealthy person has too many choices to put up with this noise.
“I have done something similar for investment properties. Pretty much everything except the land has a replacement life and is amortized with the yearly maintenance estimate for cost of ownership.”
Sure, but I took you to be suggesting we crowd source it, rather than relying on two or five “experts”, and many/most dont have experience with the actual, as oppossed to scheduled, replacement lives of most major systems. Plus, with the quality of much construction inthe last decade, the scheduled life is likely to vary substantially from expectattion.
âMy friend leaned back in his chair, lit a CIGAR, and blew smoke rings in her face. Licking his lips and grinning, he replied: âI intend to open a whore house here. Is that OK?â
Let’s try this again.
Does this constitute “fine manners”?
For all you know, this pig of a man (“licking his lips” etc.), could’ve insulted the lady first, probably without even knowing it. This guy showed his true colors and the lady was smart to have sniffed out that he was crass and a big-mouth too.
Well, he was quite polite until the question regarding church attendance. He asked her why that was relevant.
Then came the sniveling question about his ability to pay for the unit. This was a cash-only building and he wouldn’t have thought about buying if he didn’t have the cash and the ability to maintain the apartment.
This guy’s manners are usually impeccable and he had to be highly provoked to reply as he did. He is not easily angered, not the sort of person who takes insult over every casual remark. But he had already decided the place was not for him, and bought a better place nearby sometime later.
Your friend wouldn’t like the Standard Club then, lots of particularism/collectivism at clubs like that.
“Sure, but I took you to be suggesting we crowd source it, rather than relying on two or five âexpertsâ, and many/most dont have experience with the actual”
Agreed, I suppose the doc would have to be by invite only. Even then you have no idea of one’s true knowledge or intentions. This idea is probably better suited to one of the landlord forums out there.
“the quality of much construction inthe last decade, the scheduled life is likely to vary substantially from expectattion.”
Absolutely, every property would require different numbers based on how old each item is and what the quality is.
Here is an interesting list if you wanted reference #’s…
http://www.oldhouseweb.com/how-to-advice/life-expectancy.shtml