House Flipping in West Town: Buying “As-Is” at 2526 W. Thomas
This 3-bedroom cottage at 2526 W. Thomas in West Town is looking for its third sale of 2013.
It sold in a judicial sale in April 2013 for $106,500.
According to Redfin, it came back on the market in June and sold in just weeks for $160,000.
It then came back on the market again in July at $260,000.
The property has since been reduced to $249,000.
The lot is 24×125.
The June listing said “Zoning to R4 will not be a problem – zoning attorney been in contact with alderman.”
It’s being marketed to investors in the current listing as being in Ukrainian Village and also that it’s next to WickerPark/Bucktown.
Is this the sign of a hot market or one that is overheating?
Dariusz Wozniak at Landmark Realtors has the listing. See the listing here.
2526 W. Thomas: 3 bedrooms, 1 bath, teardown, being sold “as-is”
- Lis pendens filed in August 2011
- Sold in April 2013 for $106,500
- Listed in June 2013 for $149,900
- Sold in June 2013 for $160,000 (according to Redfin but this sale isn’t yet in the public records)
- Listed again in July 2013 for $269,900
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $249,000
- Taxes of $2580
- Lot size: 24×125
Here’s hoping the “flipper” who bought this shack in June ends up stuck with this shanty, and ends up taking a nice, big, fat hit on it. It amuses me that someone thinks he’s entitled to a 60% profit merely by sitting on a property while not doing squat to improve it. This is the mentality that has taken hold of our population since we destroyed nearly every productive industry in this country and turned our economy into a scam-sink where you make more money by manipulating financial instruments than you do by producing things that people that people actually use. It’s bad enough that somebody was able to turn a quick $50K for doing nothing but acquiring title to the place in January, but this subsequent seller is really pushing it.
I can’t imagine the buyer who would willingly give someone so much unearned profit for a wretched hovel in a dangerous, seedy, “gentrifying” neighborhood, that is really a tear-down, but it happened before, so it might again in this over-heated market. ARM and even IO loans are starting to make their appearance again, proof that we did not learn from the past 10 years.
Or maybe we DID learn, and what people learned is that if you borrow over your head and lose all your fake equity, you can just squat for 2,3, or 4 years and get free rent, then get a principal write down, or get your debt forgiven in a short sale where you are not only forgiven the deficiency but don’t even have to pay taxes on the gains, and then go out and do it all over again, and the taxpayers will pick up the bill.
West of western? Seems too speculative to me. Especially for spec housing with r-4 zoning
“It’s being marketed to investors in the current listing as being in Ukrainian Village and also that it’s next to WickerPark/Bucktown.”
Looks more like Humboldt Park to me. I also agree with Laura that the flipper is being greedy, tear downs in this area are probably worth a bit, but not that much. Now if it were an oversized lot, I could see above $200k, but otherwise HP isn’t quite there yet
I drove down western this weekend – what a dump. Awful run down shops and buy here pay here auto dealers, fast food and payday loans. There’s a reason why western is a natural barrier. It’s the urban version of a wide river, or a forest preserve, or wide highway. west of western this far south= shoulda bought closer to da blu line.
The profit from the auction seems OK since you take on title risk when you buy those. Either you chance it or you pay for the search before bidding.
“Seems too speculative to me.”
Isn’t this what the market has become?
On some levels the market is too speculative but on the other hand the speculators aren’t dingbat clowns with $800,000 countywide NINJA loans. Speculators will take real losses.
What a depressing home… The neighbors of one of the buildings next door should have bought this and turned it into a little yard for the complex.
wow Laura, go get laid or something
Laura – you’ll probably be upset with this transaction too?
duplex up in wicker park sold in Jan 2012 for $445k. Listed and under contract (in a few days no less) at $650k. there’s been no changes to the place. just good timing?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1304-N-Wood-St-60622/unit-3/home/39564022
To be clear, I don’t care if someone gives this flipper his asking price — more power to him — I just think he would have been better off setting the price more reasonable and go the bidding war route. Heck, if he can get quarter of a mil for this joint, than maybe my mom’s crapshack a few blocks northwest could fetch just south of $200K?
I understand the LOGIC that the area east of the park will gentrify, but if anyone has stepped a foot in this area after dark, it wont be any time soon. The gangs and drug trafficking between western/california north/division is just as bad, if not worse than any area of the city aside from NE Auburn Gresham. (I understand Thomas is about 1100 North and doesnt fall into that square, but its close enough). Plus, you are a solid mile + from a CTA train. I think its worth what it was paid for in June.
I wish you could get a lot in my hood for $150k.
“I wish you could get a lot in my hood for $150k.”
No you don’t.. You wouldn’t live there if people that could afford that were your neighbors.
“wow Laura, go get laid or something”
Remember when she used to come on early in the morning.. make nice sweet comments detailing specific points about very specific properties, then without saying anything to anyone just disappear. Now every uptick in price you see an angrier and angrier person… I said… again and again,… non-owners seem to laugh and think all the risk is on the owner, that the owner is long and the non-owner is flat.. nope.. non-owner is short…. Most probably still can’t grasp their neutrality as a short position… but they do feel it… bwwaaaaahhhhh….
Well, needless to say, as a prospective cash buyer, I see no virtue in rapidly rising prices for crappy properties.
And guess what? As an OWNER with no mortgage, I will also see no virtue in rising prices because I see no virtue in rising property TAXES. I’m buying a place to live for the rest of my life and I don’t feel like playing flipper, or paying rapidly escalating rent to the city for the “privilege” of owning and maintaining what I paid good money for.
Likewise, I do not see how I will profit if I buy low, yet all the subsequent buyers paid twice or thrice as much with FHA low-down loans that they are struggling to pay on, and end up defaulting on, leaving me stranded in a building burdened with defaults and unpaid HOA. I would far rather other buyers got in at the same low price I get and can afford to do their part to support the building. I don’t want to be the same situation so many Chicago condo owners were in, in the late 00s, and STILL are in, with buildings stuffed with defaults and unpaid HOAs, and with REO-to-rental investors picking the apartments up and renting them to anyting that walks in the door with a Section 8 voucher. Given that there are Section 8 tenants even in glossy down town high rise rentals, this is not an idle consideration.
I also do not see how first time buyers or renters stand to benefit from inflating asset prices, nor do I see how industries that actually might PRODUCE something stand to benefit, anymore than I can see how prudent SAVERS, seniors who cannot afford to take risk, or anyone but flippers, people who want to borrow to their eyeballs, or our financial cartels benefits from ultra-low interest rates.
I’d like to live in a NORMAL ECONOMY driven by production, not monetary manipulation, thankyouverymuch.
I’d like to live in a NORMAL ECONOMY driven by production, not monetary manipulation, thankyouverymuch.
Then you’ll have to build a time machine and go back to the late 60s/early 70s.
Avoid the bad acid.
“no virtue in rising prices because I see no virtue in rising property TAXES”
But in Cook County, it’s about how your assessed value changes compared to the aggregate value. If the aggregate value goes up 20%, but your assessed value goes up 15%, then your taxes go down (relatively speaking–the bill still might go up) and the converse is true, too: If the aggregate value goes down 20%, but your assessed value goes down 15%, then your taxes go *UP* (and probably a lot, as the levy will continue to increase).
“Avoid the bad acid.”
Too much brown acid, it would seem.
In parts of France (maybe even Paris), the government imposes a flip-tax of something like 50% on the profit if you sell the property before a given period of time – 3 or 4 years. I’m not sure of the exact numbers nor details, but a French friend said developers and especially foreign investors were artificially changing the pricing and character of their neighborhoods, hence the law which was fully supported by the locals and has been quite successful in slowly down flips. Gotta love the French… at least part of the time.
“Then you’ll have to build a time machine and go back to the late 60s/early 70s.”
What century??… attempts to manipulate currency go back a long long long long way…. best to think of it as part of the game.. besides if the numerator and denominator move at the same pace nothing really happened…. as for all cash buyer at these rates… Ze still no see the benefit.
so basically Laura… its “wah wah wah, things aren’t fair, wah wah wah”
why on earth would you buy a property with all cash in this rate environment you can get a 15 year mortgage at like 2.5% lol
sonies, anybody who is not absolutely furious at the government-enabled scam that our economy has become, and is not enraged at the gimmes for po’ foreclosure victims, for homeBORROWERS to over-borrow, for Section 8 recipients, and for the $6 Trillion in taxpayers’ funds that have to programs to subsidize home buyers, subsidize the po’ suffering buried borrowers who want principle write downs, and the po’ foreclosure “victims” who are being forgiven huge deficiencies both by the lenders and on their taxes, while the people who did nothing to contribute to this debacle have to pay through the nose, is either A. Clueless, or B. In on the scam.
We now live in a country where frugality, prudence and responsibility are punished, and where scamming and lack of responsibility are rewarded. I just love hearing (from an agent friend) of a woman in the suburbs who defaulted on a $334K condo, squatted in the place without paying for nearly 2 years, and then was PAID $12000 by the bank to move out of the place, so they could sell it for $50K less. I love reading about the people who are getting principle write-downs even though they can (barely) pay their mortgages, and got 30% of the face amount of the loan written down, just so they can now sell at a $100K profit a year later, which they would not have been able to do without the massive indirect subsidies and bailouts for the banks.
YES, it’s unfair. I have never received a government freebie in my life, and if I were to default on my rent, I’d find my belonging sitting on the curb within 3 months, since I don’t belong to any of the various classes of “victims” who are considered entitled to my tax money. I’m not a welfare momma with 6 kids and I’m not somebody who borrowed 6X her income with a pay option ARM in 2003 and then HELOCed my place to buy boob jobs and Benzes. I’m also not a TBTF bankster who has a God-given entitlement to continue to live in a $40 M house and suffer no consequences for insane risk taking. We are now a country in which the prudent and honest are punished, but the dishonest and irresponsible are rewarded.
As for my reasons for paying cash- I’m approaching the age bracket where you don’t want to have any debt, and there is less employment security than ever. I want my monthly outlay so low that I can always meet it and want NO debt in old age, or now.
And, YES, the most compelling reason to go cash is that you can negotiate a vastly better price when the seller doesn’t have to worry about your financing.
We now live in a country where frugality, prudence and responsibility are punished, and where scamming and lack of responsibility are rewarded.
This is just so much BS. There’s always been an upside to scamming and a downside to being a straight arrow. It’s no different now than it’s ever been. In the end, the majority of scammers end up broke and the majority of fiscally responsible people end up just fine.
I have never received a government freebie in my life,
EVERYONE has benefited in some manner from government largesse. You are no exception.
since I don’t belong to any of the various classes of “victims” who are considered entitled to my tax money. I’m not a welfare momma with 6 kids
This is cribchatter, lady, not the Rand Paul 2016 campaign site. Peddle this crap elsewhere.
Laura writes: “We now live in a country where frugality, prudence and responsibility are punished, and where scamming and lack of responsibility are rewarded.”
Amen, sister!
Can I join your brotherhood? 🙂
About to close (finally) on a place (cash, natch!) and like you, I don’t belong to any special group, never got a handout from the gov and have always worked an honest day for an honest dollar. Makes me sick as well, to see people that went in way over their heads get bailed out time and again, thinking “the man” owes them something. You know what “the man” owes you??? Let me tell you: a good kick in the a$$, that’s what!
Live within your means. Save. Don’t put everything on plastic and then pay for it $20 or $30 a month forever. Just like the illegals here believing they are “owed” donor organs while the fools like you and me end up paying for all of ’em.
This is a country full of people with their hands out, expecting the “other guy” to pay for whatever it is they want/buy/have. Where did the work ethic and honesty go?
“And, YES, the most compelling reason to go cash is that you can negotiate a vastly better price when the seller doesn’t have to worry about your financing.”
Total myth, unless you’re dealing directly with a bank or a distressed property, sellers would typically want MORE money for the house they are selling, they could give two rats patoots about whether or not they take out a loan or not, the sellers just want to get paid as much as possible. Typically leverage leads to that.
Madeline, by “government largesse”, do you mean the civic services that I willingly pay taxes for.
Sorry, but decent roads and transit, police protection, fire protection, decent water and sewer infrastructure, and decent public sanitation are not “government largesse”. They are services essential to maintaining a livable community that taxpayers PAY FOR. They could also include minimal assistance for those unfortunate people who cannot in any way take care of themselves in any form- extremely disabled people, and of course, children.
“Government largesse” is what you distinctly did NOT pay for, like rent subsidies, food stamps, special subsidies and tax breaks for “homeowners”, or for certain types of businesses (“economic development”, har)… anything that you must belong to a special category of perfectly able adults to qualify for.
sonies, depending on how motivated the seller is, a lower cash offer that can close with no problems is a whole lot more attractive to a seller than a buyer who needs to be financed and whose financing might fall through a minute before closing. It is one less BIG worry for the seller.
Cash bids are nearly always lowballs or below market in Chicago. in other markets the cash bids are usually higher than other mortgage offers, such as LA or NY.
Although every once in a while $1,000,000 is only enough for a down payment and not an apartmetn in NYC
http://www.moneynews.com/Economy/Manhattan-Apartments-New-York-City-Rent/2013/08/07/id/519176
“Government largesse” is what you distinctly did NOT pay for, like rent subsidies, food stamps, special subsidies and tax breaks for “homeowners”, or for certain types of businesses (“economic development”, har)… anything that you must belong to a special category of perfectly able adults to qualify for.
So you don’t have a parent/grandparent who went to college via the GI bill? You didn’t attend public school? Didn’t take out a student loan or get a Pell grant? Didn’t attend a public/land grant college/university? Never had employer-provided healthcare? Never took the mortgage deduction on your taxes? When you retire, you don’t intend to collect social security or use medicare?
“anything that you must belong to a special category of perfectly able adults to qualify for.”
Do you really think that perfectly able African Americans, or women or other protected classes are equal to white males in this country? I’d like to believe so, as I think they should, but alas, this country has plenty of racism, sexism and other isms that do NOT make us all equal as much as we like to say we are or should be.
“duplex up in wicker park sold in Jan 2012 for $445k. Listed and under contract (in a few days no less) at $650k. there’s been no changes to the place. just good timing?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1304-N-Wood-St-60622/unit-3/home/39564022”
This unit didn’t sell for several years from the developer. They finally dumped it in 2012.
What does it mean that it may sell (we don’t know the actual selling price) just a year later for $200,000 more?
Seems to me that there’s a bubble in the making. Another big, nasty bubble that is going to burst. When? I don’t know. Because no one who is sane would look at the 2012 price and possibly pay this 2013 price (if nothing was done to it.) Why would you? How are you going to sell that and make any money when interest rates are 6%? And you won’t live there for longer than a few years (a top floor of a walk-up? No way.) The people living there now didn’t even live there 2 or 3 years.
The things that are happening on both coasts now clearly aren’t normal. And even here in Chicago (where we supposedly “didn’t have” a bubble the last time around- has gotten frothy too.) The Fed is distorting this market all to hell. That is why Laura is mad. She is a “regular” buyer with a “regular” job who just wants somewhere to live. She doesn’t want to flip, invest, pay all cash, rent it out or whatever the hell. She just wants to live within her means.
Can you imagine the rage by those living in California or New York City right now? I can’t even imagine. Affordability levels in California are approaching the low levels last seen at the height of the bubble. In some areas only 17% of the population can afford the median house. What a joke.
Why does ANYONE think this is good? It would be like the stock market trading at 30x again like 2000. That’s what this is like. It only ends one way. Badly. But it can go on a lot longer than we think (as it did in 2005-2006). At least until the Fed ends QE and the mortgage rates resume their rise.
“On some levels the market is too speculative but on the other hand the speculators aren’t dingbat clowns with $800,000 countywide NINJA loans.”
90% of all mortgages are backed by the taxpayers. Do people care what happens? The government has them covered. And for those paying cash- did you see the filing by American Homes 4 Rent when it went IPO last week? If that’s not a disaster waiting to happen (only 50% of homes rented out and it keeps buying more)- I don’t know what is. Who’s going to bail out all the private equity groups buying up thousands of houses when that goes bust? Will the government let them fail?
Everyone just assumes Blackstone and the others must know what they’re doing. They’re Blackstone. $12 billion market cap. What could go wrong?
Sabrina, yes, that duplex up, if it sells for near list is crazy, but there is no need for Laura’s rage either. I am a “regular buyer” with a “regular job”. I didn’t want to rent out either, but the condo I bought in 2006 lost big bucks. Even though I would have to bring more money to closing to sell it than to buy a new place since I cannot sell as a short sale as I make too much and have savings and am unwilling to take the credit hit to just walk away from the place, I have taken advantage of this market and am renting the condo I have (yes, at a loss, but I have to swallow that as it is life and far better than bringing six digits to closing to sell it) and was able to buy the home I have always wanted at a price I never imagined it would be at since prices came down and people were scared to buy.
Yes, now prices are starting to go back up and there isn’t a lot of inventory, but if you claim to be hurt by the people “scamming” everyone and then claim to be hurt because the market is getting better and you weren’t able to move up or your place is now worth more and it doesn’t help you because you don’t want to sell, I’m not going to cry for you. Laura needs to quit playing victim and do something. Yes, life isn’t fair. I was f*cked buying in an up and coming area in 2006, but I have swallowed the reality, and moved on and have found a way to be in a better place and don’t spend all my time whining about not being able to have EVERYTHING go my way and things be positive for others, or others be able to play the game.
The one thing that makes me a little less nervous of a bubble is the lack of volume. Yes, prices are up, but because inventory is low, volume of sales is also low. Meaning that if/when prices bounce back a bit, the number of people “trapped” is much lower than 5-8 years ago.
“Oh, I’m not a minority, I wasn’t willing to go into foreclosure, I didn’t buy a place when the market was down, I don’t want to sell my place now that the market is better, WOE IS ME!!!” Sounds an awful lot like those people in “special category of perfectly able adults” to me Laura…
Actually- also another interesting thing to watch- outside of some of these properties like this one that was posted on wood- most of the stuff I’m seeing within the GreenZone is still selling for a loss from the 2008, 2009 sale or even earlier.
Maybe that’s why inventory continues to be so dismal? While prices are up- they’re not up enough to save all the underwater homeowners.
I think that is exactly the case, Sabrina. Yes, prices are up, but this is far from 2006 in MANY ways! Prices aren’t nearly up as high as they were (although as always there are exceptions) and getting a mortgage is much more difficult as well. I had to go through so many more hoops this time, and while a pain, I’m relieved by it.
I with the government would get rid of the 3.5% down mortgages even if it meant my property would take a hit in terms of value. Bring back the 20% down minimum and force people to be a little more responsible.
Dismal inventory is in a negative feedback loop right now. Prices are up, but since nobody has anywhere to move to due to the low inventory and higher prices, people won’t bother putting their place on the market, and so on and so forth. Just like a few years ago, the only ones buying now are ones that HAVE to buy, and ones that HAVE to sell. Inventory is so crappy, mainly because all the people that bought too much house a few years ago, had very little disposeable income to maintain or improve their homes. It is super obvious when you see the listings!
I hope that made sense
Why is everyone giving laura lou crap? She’s only getting 1,000 calories a day. Never forget that.
Also want to know laura’s opinion on AAPL.
“Also want to know laura’s opinion on AAPL”
AAPL.. thought they went out of business in the mid 90’s???
Where’s all the shadow inventory we heard discussed?
“Likewise, I do not see how I will profit if I buy low, yet all the subsequent buyers paid twice or thrice as much with FHA low-down loans that they are struggling to pay on, and end up defaulting on, leaving me stranded in a building burdened with defaults and unpaid HOA. I would far rather other buyers got in at the same low price I get and can afford to do their part to support the building.”
I suggest that you live in a co-op on East LSD. You should be on the board so that you could change the rules after you purchase and then control all the future neighbors who want to live there. It would suit you well.
“Where’s all the shadow inventory we heard discussed?”
Oh silly, all the shadow inventory is either still in foreclosure or has a 40 year loan mod recorded against it!
“YES, it’s unfair. I have never received a government freebie in my life”
Madeline that was Laura’s exact quote. Let that sink in before responding with stupid attempts at trying to twist her words into something that she did not mean. Perhaps I should go line by line to point out the flaws in your limited viewpoint.
“So you don’t have a parent/grandparent who went to college via the GI bill”
Even if they did that has nothing to do with her or her statement.
“You didn’t attend public school” Public school is hardly a giveaway as it is paid for by property taxes in her own neighborhood.
“Didn’t take out a student loan” Loans get paid back at an interest rate. Perhaps a lower rate than market but it is at a PROFIT to the government.
“A pell grant” Finally you hit an accurate one as this would qualify as a true government giveaway. My money says that she did not take one but at least this is an investment in people that leads to a potential long term gain for the government via improved taxes and ability for the individual to earn income.
“Didn’t attend a public/land grant college/university” – Again this is mainly paid for by taxes and if she did attend one she still would have had to pay tuition. It was not a giveaway and is also an investment in people and creates a greater likelihood to perform better, make more income, and grow the overall economy.
“Never had employer-provided healthcare” – This is clearly not a giveaway. If she did it was a part of compensation package for work performed.
“Never took the mortgage deduction on your taxes” – Following rules allowed by law are not taking a giveaway. That is a legal and appropriate deduction and not a government giveaway.
“When you retire, you don’t intend to collect social security or use medicare” – This is actually funded by money taken away from her own paycheck by the government and then later redistributed as they deem fair. How can that be considered a giveaway when funded from her own efforts?
Nice try Madeline however your response failed to put a dent in her claim that she did not take a government freebie.
“Following rules allowed by law are not taking a giveaway.”
Then so are using food stamps, getting section 8 vouchers, etc, etc. Your exception includes everything that isn’t fraudulent; you’re twisting Laura Lou’s words into something she didn’t say–she’s not solely decrying fraud.
One could always stumble home from the Empty Bottle to this abode, so there’s something. And there’s Flying Saucer at the other end of the street, for a surly vegetarian brunch. And the California Clipper, and Rootstock are walking distance as well. This could be a great house for an alcoholic trustafarian hipster!
“a lower cash offer that can close with no problems is a whole lot more attractive to a seller than a buyer who needs to be financed and whose financing might fall through a minute before closing. It is one less BIG worry for the seller.”
And what, precisely, would prevent the “cash buyer” from obtaining a purchase money mortgage at closing? “The contract” you say? What’s the recourse, exactly, beyond the earnest money?
You want to tell us that 10-day close or a 30% earnest money deposit might be more attractive to a seller, even at a lower price, that’s reasonable. But a seller who takes less money because the offer is “cash purchase”, but otherwise on basically the same terms to one with a mortgage, is being foolish.
“So you don’t have a parent/grandparent who went to college via the GI bill”
Even if they did that has nothing to do with her or her statement.
Yes, it does. Having college educated parents/grandparents is strongly correlated with the accumulation of wealth.
Public school is hardly a giveaway as it is paid for by property taxes in her own neighborhood.
Well, unless her family had the most expensive house in the neighborhood, she was subsidized by other taxpayers, wasn’t she? (Actually, even if that were the case, public schools are paid for by taxes other than property tax.)
Loans get paid back at an interest rate. Perhaps a lower rate than market but it is at a PROFIT to the government.
Sure, but the loans are only available to college students with no/minimal income because of the government’s backing.
“A pell grant” Finally you hit an accurate one as this would qualify as a true government giveaway. My money says that she did not take one but at least this is an investment in people that leads to a potential long term gain for the government via improved taxes and ability for the individual to earn income.
You can make the “investment for the future” argument about nearly any government program. It’s easier to better your circumstances when you’re not worried about where your next meal is coming from or having a roof over your head. (Also, my Pell Grants covered about 90% of my tuition).
“Didn’t attend a public/land grant college/university” – Again this is mainly paid for by taxes and if she did attend one she still would have had to pay tuition. It was not a giveaway and is also an investment in people and creates a greater likelihood to perform better, make more income, and grow the overall economy.
Again with the “investment” argument. Tuition is heavily subsidized at public universities. Also, isn’t every government program “mainly paid for by taxes”.
“Never had employer-provided healthcare” – This is clearly not a giveaway. If she did it was a part of compensation package for work performed.
Do you think most employers would offer healthcare as part of a compensation package if they weren’t allowed to deduct the expense?
“When you retire, you don’t intend to collect social security or use medicare” – This is actually funded by money taken away from her own paycheck by the government and then later redistributed as they deem fair. How can that be considered a giveaway when funded from her own efforts?
If you think that your SS and Medicare payments are fully funded by what you’ve paid into the system, I’m not sure there’s a point in trying to have a conversation with you.
Also, you seem to be under the impression that people receiving food stamps and section 8 vouchers have NEVER paid taxes. That is absolutely not the case.
Basically, your argument boils down to “government programs that benefit me = good; government programs that don’t (directly) benefit me = bad”.
“my Pell Grants covered about 90% of my tuition”
It’s hard to remember that Chambana used to be that cheap (and other places cheaper!).
“Do you think most employers would offer healthcare as part of a compensation package if they weren’t allowed to deduct the expense?”
It’s employee compensation, so of course it is ‘deductible’; the point is that they can provide ‘alternate compensation’ worth $100 to the EEs at the same net cost as about $60 of cash compensation, bc the premia are excluded from FICA and not taxable to the EE.
It is a fair question if, in a hypothetical bona fide open, competitive market for health insurance, where everyone has ‘group’ pricing available to them, and the possibility of choosing a lesser-coverage plan, but getting grossed up to the same net-cost-of-standard-plan-to-company, how many would elect to take the lesser coverage and the (guessing) extra $2-4k in pre-tax cash compensaton (note: that guess based on the actual change I got (via reduced premia + comp HSA contribution) switching from ppo to high deductible plan–might be a bit higher, in reality).
“Do you think most employers would offer healthcare as part of a compensation package if they weren’t allowed to deduct the expense?”
“It is a fair question if, in a hypothetical bona fide open, competitive market for health insurance, where everyone has ‘group’ pricing available to them, and the possibility of choosing a lesser-coverage plan, but getting grossed up to the same net-cost-of-standard-plan-to-company, how many would elect to take the lesser coverage and the (guessing) extra $2-4k in pre-tax cash compensaton (note: that guess based on the actual change I got (via reduced premia + comp HSA contribution) switching from ppo to high deductible plan–might be a bit higher, in reality).”
Hard to believe that the tax incentives wouldn’t affect the amount of health insurance, on the margin. But in the absence of govt provided healthcare/insurance, hard to rule out that employers would have been a way to provide group insurance, which has advantages. I know that tax and regulatory factors pushed employers into healthcare, but not obvious how else it would have been provided unless the govt took over.
“Hard to believe that the tax incentives wouldn’t affect the amount of health insurance, on the margin.”
On the margin, of course.
“But in the absence of govt provided healthcare/insurance, hard to rule out that employers would have been a way to provide group insurance, which has advantages.”
True and true.
“I know that tax and regulatory factors pushed employers into healthcare, but not obvious how else it would have been provided unless the govt took over.”
Mutual benefit societies, evolving into for-profit corporations, just like with life insurance, and likely with similar participation rates, leading to a lot more (real) medical bankruptcies. But unionization had a big influence on the development of employer-sponsored health insurance, whatever one thinks about 21st century unions.
“If you think that your SS and Medicare payments are fully funded by what you’ve paid into the system, I’m not sure there’s a point in trying to have a conversation with you.”
What is next Madeline? “I’m going to take my ball and run home to my mommy cause you were not nice to me!” “I know everything and you know nothing.” My mommy says I am so special and smart.
““If you think that your SS and Medicare payments are fully funded by what you’ve paid into the system, I’m not sure there’s a point in trying to have a conversation with you.”
We all get that the SS is a pyramid scheme of sorts and that it will eventually run out of money if not properly fed BY MORE TAXES FROM EMPLOYEES and EMPLOYERS but again your statement does not make sense. This comment was in relation to the key claim that you were disputing of her not taking any government freebies. Explain what other sources of funds have been used to pay out any SS claims up to this date? Not a single dollar has come from outside of the SS Trust fund.
In the end there are people that want to be self sufficient and people that want to leech and use every opportunity to take from others and be fed by other peoples efforts and sense of entitlement programs. Clearly you missed the point entirely to defend your slightly socialist tendencies of how important the government is to everything and everyone.
It never ceases to shock me how people like madeline can be so ignorant and unable to use her brain. un-believable.
The older I get the more I see both sides of the socialism issue. On the one hand, self-sufficiency is admirable and government freebies only makes more people dependent on government, contrary to the ideals of the founding fathers. On the other hand, in today’s world, self-sufficiency is difficult in a society of low wage jobs, poor lifestyle choices (out of wedlock births, rampant consumer debt, and an entitlement attitude), and low class mobility. Simply closing our wallet to a llarge number of uninsured, and high levels of childhood poverty isn’t going to simply make society return to a more self-reliant 19th century enlightenment ideal. The best course of action is to embrace socialism but utiliize it in a sparingly manner.
No surprise in the ratings of comments that this is mainly an Illinois populated comments section. Look at how well your views of society and economics are working out. Illinois is practically dead last in everything. I know it’s hard for people to admit they are wrong, but man, it’s staring you in the face! What more evidence do you need to tell you socialism doesn’t work? It already failed, everywhere it was attempted. And don’t even tell me how the “free market” failed. If you believe we have (had) a free market, there’s no point in even having the conversation, because too far from reality to even know where to begin.
“On the other hand, in today’s world,self-sufficiency is difficult in a society of low wage jobs, poor lifestyle choices (out of wedlock births, rampant consumer debt, and an entitlement attitude), and low class mobility”
I guess that it comes down to the old saying, which came first the chicken or the egg? Are the many government programs that promote out of wedlock births part of the problem or part of the solution. I say it is crystal clear that they are adding more to the problem side and doing little or nothing to improve conditions for the future generations born to these lower income individuals.
Doing nothing or turning our back is not the solution however adding incremental dollars for each extra child they produce that is born out of wedlock is the equivalent of creating an income stream for baby mama’s. You are encouraging bad behavior and further increasing the problems these mothers face to get themselves out of a bad situation.
“Do you think most employers would offer healthcare as part of a compensation package if they weren’t allowed to deduct the expense?”
Another interesting theory that makes little sense. Some people seem to think that the only reason that any company does anything on the expense side is to get a tax break. That is utter nonsense. Even with a tax break the true cost providing a benefit (such as insurance) still costs the company actual money. If there were no tax breaks for this spend then insurance coverage would go down however it is clearly not a zero sum game.
Without spending that money on the insurance it would be considered INCOME that could be used elsewhere or taken as taxable profit. Since the government has not yet figured out how to tax companies at 100% of profits yet much of those incremental dollars would be put into the hands of the owners or shareholders.
The reason that they choose to purchase health insurance for their employees is that they apparently felt that they were dollars well spent that led to a higher caliber candidate that was in demand by other companies or as a way to increase employee retention. Either of those will actually improve growth and profits for the company.
BTW I find it funny that under Obamacare I will now be TAXED or penalized for having excellent coverage. My wife’s company covers our family with a very comprehensive plan. In other words they did exactly what the government expected aka provided coverage. Now that positive benefit will be considered a luxury that is going to cost me money. Again taking away more from the producers and self sufficient to feed the masses of individuals who in many cases, despite decent incomes, have CHOSEN to be without coverage.
“BTW I find it funny that under Obamacare I will now be TAXED or penalized for having excellent coverage.”
It’s hard to find a plan in Illinois that’s $29,000 annually for family coverage even on the individual market. Can get a 0 deductible PPO family plan for much less than that amount. That must be a super deluxe plan your wife’s company offers.
The exclusion for employer-provided health insurance from taxation is a tax expenditure. I.e., it reduces payroll taxes as well as income taxes. It does so to the tune of about $250 billion a year.
Which one of you motherfuckers does not feast at this public trough? And let’s not talk about who does and doesn’t benefit from the mortgage deduction. Let’s just bitch about the “takers.”
The tragedy of Laura is not that she’s a hard-money austerian. It’s that she’s adopted that as an investment philosophy, and then starts keening about the injustice of it all when the world turns out to work differently.
“That must be a super deluxe plan your wife’s company offers.”
It is indeed. We are offered health, dental, vision, and virtually no co-pays. Pretty amazing stuff however she works in a high level role for a subsidiary that is wholly owned by a major insurance company.
For the past two or three years the “value” of that policy has been listed on her annual employment review. It is above the threshold of $27,500. Fortunately I have heard various opinions on how that tax plan will work and I believe that the tax may only on the incremental value over that threshold. The funny part is that over time it will clearly by design ensnare many more individuals. As the price of insurance skyrockets in comparison to inflation more and more policies will be hit. Mark my words that in five years from now most family policies will be well over the threshold.
I also found it interesting that the unions were able to be mostly carved out of this potential tax burden. Nice move!
“high level role for a subsidiary that is wholly owned by a major insurance company”
Seems like your horribly unjust tax situation is preferable to single-payer health policy. I stand with economic rent seekers.
BTW – Nonchatterer – I really like that name.
As for the comment “I stand with economic rent seekers” I hope that you find your monopoly situation and that you stand to make lots of money!
With regard to the comment about health insurance not being taxed…”reduces payroll taxes as well as income taxes” I guess that you are in the camp that believes this is an oversight and that all benefits should be monatized so that they could be considered as taxable income.
I don’t feel that is the case. If it is not the law then it is clearly not reducing payroll taxes any more than claiming that sunlight is needed to grow plants so farmers should be taxed on how much sunlight they use. Did you use the internet today? Well that should be taxed as well. They could also create a tax of .01 per blog entry and make billions and billions of new tax money.
Think of all the things that are not taxed and lets bring them into the fold. An even stranger option that has been overlooked is services vs goods. Why is it that when I buy a pack of gum it is a taxable transaction but if I get a haircut, car wash, or hire a landscaping company to cut my lawn that does not get taxed. In the old economy there were fewer services but many goods sold. That has clearly changed but the tax code never caught up.
“The tragedy of Laura is not that she’s a hard-money austerian. It’s that she’s adopted that as an investment philosophy, and then starts keening about the injustice of it all when the world turns out to work differently.”
No.. she’s just short watching a market running in her face, and complaining like a lil bitch about it… oh and wishing everyone long gets their bell rung.. Historically, that has always been the immature way most deal with markets going against them.
…and expect the biatchin to increase.. this baby is first startin to get legs….
“I guess that you are in the camp that believes this is an oversight”
I guess that I’m in the camp that believes this was not an oversight but rather a very deliberate policy with a very deliberate objective. I guess I also believe that the time in the 1950s when the IRS tried to yank the exemption and Congress overruled it with new and specific legislation, there was a reason. I guess I’m in the camp that believes the questions of whether this is a good idea or whether it’s legal or whether the Baby Jesus approves of it is irrelevant to the question of whether Laura ever took freebies for the gubmint like those icky poors.
“An even stranger option that has been overlooked is services vs goods. … That has clearly changed but the tax code never caught up.”
In many states services are taxed, and have been for decades. It’s on the table in Illinois every year lately but, so far (fortunately, IMO) there’s been a bloc insisting on reducing the structural spending before doing that.
“Historically, that has always been the immature way most deal with markets going against them”
So what should Laura or I or anyone else interested in preserving our countries future do about these issues? I don’t think that it is a market going against her as much as a societal change in perceptions. It used to be that a man would be embarrassed about the possibility of foreclosure or bankruptcy. A stain on their record. Now it is treated like an unpaid parking ticket or book from the library that was not returned.
Some of us still get frustrated when people profit from doing the wrong thing. Bitching aside how do you help to change the flow of these unfortunate decisions?
“the question of whether Laura ever took freebies for the gubmint like those icky poors.”
Tehpoorz who are *also* merely seeking money they are allowed to under law.
I’ve talked to people who itemize fed taxes and do not claim the charitable deductions, bc something something “not really charity” whatever. I told them that that means they are “volunteering to pay more tax”.
Laura has a traditional republican, albeit republican talking points, view of the world. The world doesn’t work entirely that way, but it doesn’t work well in a completely democratic or socialist way either. Texas is as free market as it gets in the union, and it is thriving, but it has high numbers of uninsured and as awful of a school system (statewide in the aggregate) any other traditionally poor or democratic state. Illinois is far from a socialist state and we have a fairly low overall tax burden compared to other similar states with large urban areas ie NY and CA, sales tax hike in cook county not withstanding.
Th real problem here is the growing gap in the distribution of wealth. I’m not talking about just the 1% but basically the fact there are more and more lower income people. Not just in rural and urban areas either but in the vast suburbs. There’s us cribchatter s with high incomes and great educations and for many of us things have never been better, I know this has been a great year for me; but for the have nots it’s gotten worse, or maybe stayed the same. And they want health care,or food stamp assistance, or housing assistance. There really is no way for some of these people ever to get out of the lower classes, they’re stuck there,, its a myth that they can go up the social ladder. So I don’t blame them for wanting what I have. And I barely have anything at this point in the whole scheme of things. But to someone down the social ladder, I’m rich. Messed up stuff here
“it is irrelevant to the question of whether Laura ever took freebies for the gubmint like those icky poors” Haaaaa that is funny!
Nonc- What was their objective back in the 50’s? Seriously I am curious on that response.
Anon – while I agree on the structural spending being a major problem why IYO is it wrong to tax companies that provide services?
Glad I had a few slow moments today. Cribchatter economic policy education session is excellent today!
“Anon – while I agree on the structural spending being a major problem why IYO is it wrong to tax companies that provide services?”
Not wrong as policy; wrong as a new revenue stream for the S’field crooks to use to paper over their persistent graft and low tax/high spend re-election strategy (it works, on the local and national level). Fix the damn spending problems *first*, then change the tax policy to pay for the fixed spending in a fashion most equitable and least distortive. Applying sales tax to services would definitely fit both of those goals, IMO.
“Fortunately I have heard various opinions on how that tax plan will work and I believe that the tax may only on the incremental value over that threshold.”
Not opinion, fact. It’s only on the amount over the threshold, but it’s a huge tax (40%) on that amount.
We switched to a high-deductible plan, with hsa, and so far are *way* ahead of where we’d be under a traditional plan. And still covered over catastrophic bills–basically you end up with the chance of the ‘doughnut hole’ in coverage (like Medicare Part D had before the congress-critters did a 2d re-elect me give away to old people), both the far lower cost of the plan almost covers the whole difference (at least on a family plan)–basically, once there are no more births coming, and everyone is free from chronic illness (so no guaranteed minimum $1k/month in docs and meds), high-deductible is great.
“Cribchatter economic policy education session is excellent today!”
I hate when this board talks economic policy — it just reminds me of my poor CPS education.
“Some of us still get frustrated when people profit from doing the wrong thing. Bitching aside how do you help to change the flow of these unfortunate decisions?”
1- These “housing-market” entitlements have been going on for years.. I bitched plenty about it myself when it started. Her complaining began when price starting increasing. I never remember it prior to price increasing. So I hold her bitching to be 100% P+L related.
As for changing the world.. and trying to make things fair.. I concluded my life takes enough energy just to manage it, and life is way to short to waste energy on things I know I can’t change. I never was kidding all the times I have said.. Ze wants NOTHING to do with reality.. I’ve worked hard to be completely detached from it, and prefer it that way. Much-much happier. So someone defaults.. gets a principal reduction.. then sells for 100k profit.. changes my life about as much as a leave falling off a tree… and it’s going to upset me just about equally.
“We switched to a high-deductible plan, with hsa, and so far are *way* ahead of where we’d be under a traditional plan. And still covered over catastrophic bills–basically you end up with the chance of the ‘doughnut hole’ in coverage (like Medicare Part D had before the congress-critters did a 2d re-elect me give away to old people), both the far lower cost of the plan almost covers the whole difference (at least on a family plan)–basically, once there are no more births coming, and everyone is free from chronic illness (so no guaranteed minimum $1k/month in docs and meds), high-deductible is great.”
BRAVO!!! I always try telling people to go this way… The % of premium you pay until the trigger amount is humorous. I assure you the people who price this stuff are giggling.. the pricing is all totally wrong…
I remember someone bragging to me about his 100% coverage and then suggesting to me that I probably have excellent coverage, and then the bad look he gave me when I said I carry as high a deductible as possible.. that way it is insurance and not a health plan.. He didn’t get it.. he walked away THINKING less of me, and I walked away KNOWING he was a dumb-ass.
“Nonc- What was their objective back in the 50?s? Seriously I am curious on that response.”
I was bullshitting. Congress had no idea what they were voting on. That bit was slipped in by the Chamber of Commerce lobbyist who wrote the bill.
Nah, I have no idea, but here’s my guess: Nobody in Congress wanted to raise income taxes, as wartime rates were still in effect. A couple years earlier Truman’s attempt at a national health policy was defeated, thanks to the strenuous efforts of guess who. Still, unions were making headway at securing health insurance benefits, so nobody saw an interest in throwing up roadblocks.
” I always try telling people to go this way”
Yep, only 2 reasons not too: likely maternity costs, and chronic care needs that will go only slightly past the deductible every year. And even then, still might be better, but numbers must be crunched with the particulars of the plan–mine includes prescriptions in the deductible, but not all do.
Many employers also will pay you more (thru hsa contributions) to switch.
Anon and Ze – for all but 4 of my working years I have been self employed. During most of that time I carried my own insurance always with a high deductible. One policy in my early 20’s allowed a $5000 ded unless I came in via the ER which had a $250 ded. I bet the farm that it would be a torn ACL over Lukemia or cancer and won that bet year after year. At some point they stopped that low dollar ER ded policy.
Now we are on the wife’s policy and it is exceptional. Births are over and no big illness in sight or the rearview mirror. That is good! In addition to the good policy she actually contributed to an HSA which was quite liberal on what it could be used for. This past year lets just say it did come in handy. We ran up some bills at Prentice as the family got larger…..
” Ze wants NOTHING to do with reality.. I’ve worked hard to be completely detached from it, and prefer it that way.”
That is my favorite comment of all time on Crib Chatter. Sure it has little to do with the housing market but Sabrina should add this to the Hall of Fame wall. Perhaps in the new long promised fourm format there can be a section where the regular posters can be profiled with a few key quotes. This would sum up Ze perfectly!
“I’ve talked to people who itemize fed taxes and do not claim the charitable deductions, bc something something “not really charity” whatever. I told them that that means they are “volunteering to pay more tax”.”
Particularly when they could donate more, itemize, and pay the same tax as by not claiming. So they are volunteering to pay more tax versus donating more, among other things.
I am so happy not to have an FSA option at the moment. I’m too cheap not to take it when offered. But hate hate hate having to deal w it.
“This would sum up Ze perfectly!”
LOL… jp3, I always held you in the camp that didn’t think Ze was some fictitious character…
As for the insurance.. On the years you have big pay outs it will feel the way you do now, but over the long haul it works out better as anon and I are saying. Of course it also really makes a dif whether the deductible is going to be financially crippling..
btw.. does anyone know if Home Depot sells stranded cat6 cable off of rolls.. I really do not want 1,000 ft of cat 6 cable..
Ze – I’m about a decade, or really bad day, away from living your life. Although my choice would be the sw side of Maui or Southern Thailand instead of South America it sure would be fun to move the family and slow down the pace of life.
Someday….
“btw.. does anyone know if Home Depot sells stranded cat6 cable off of rolls.. I really do not want 1,000 ft of cat 6 cable..”
Almost certainly yes. But you might not be able to find anyone to help you.
“Southern Thailand”
I presume you’ve never been to Thailand. The whole country stinks. You leave a 5 star hotel and they are cutting off head of chickens in a shopping cart that sells food.
Then there is the filth everywhere both literally and figuratively. I’d never ever go back there.
just do cAt5e. cat 6 is overkill
“Almost certainly yes. But you might not be able to find anyone to help you.”
Wouldn’t expect it any other way.. remember when Home Depot first became a big thing and everyone there was incredibly knowledgeable and helpful? Trust me, here I get no help, bad attitude, no returns, and shit product. You just take things for granted.
” Although my choice would be the sw side of Maui or Southern Thailand instead of South America ”
Loved the Wailea idea myself, but one time on vacation there, it rained every day and there is really nothing to do there when it rains… got island fever real quick.. A great place to do a disappearing act to and yet be close to the States…. Costa Rica.. I spent months at a time there and just loved it.
“just do cAt5e. cat 6 is overkill”
Think for ease of convenience I am going to agree with you… Whole apartment is cat5e already.. wanted to do same in another apartment that is currently unwired.. thought cat 6 future-proofs me better, but a total pain in the ass. Nothing a bag of weed wouldn’t give me all the patience in the world to do though…of course i might wire the wrong rooms.. 🙂
Just ordered that Asus RT-AC66U so it will be interesting to see if I can run completely wireless. Want the cable as a back up in case I can’t.
Loved Thailand but to be fair I was mostly in northern area. Had a great time in Guncastle area of Costa Rica. Could also be a contender. Very peaceful people. Wailea on a rainy week is still better than Chicago at least 25 weeks a year. Maybe 35!
“Wailea on a rainy week is still better than Chicago at least 25 weeks a year. Maybe 35!”
Certainly rainy week doesn’t completely ruin vacay when running from 12″ of slush here; always different to live it, tho. Escaping the island fever is a 5 hour flight.
If there is one fever I can handle it would be Island Fever! In a pinch a trips to so cal is around. $500 on a decent sale. Or I hear you could claim to be homeless and they will pop for a one way ticket back to ORD.
Interesting how with everyone going on about healthcare no one here even knows why we have employer based healthcare to begin with. A lot of you have predictable guesses though. Like “it’s a corporate tax dodge” and oh oh, “somebody’s getting a freebe” so Laura’s a hypocrite. Some of you people really are clueless.
So why should anybody be surprised that now we have an even worse system than the screwed up one we already had. A nation of idiots.
avoid Thailand. I tell people I don’t do third world countries.
with wireless you lose one bar on average for every wall the signal travels through. you can buy a second router and set it up as a repeater but it’s a pain in the butt to set up.
“no one here even knows why we have employer based healthcare to begin with”
Yeah yeah, exemption from wage and price controls. Always fun when the “y’all are morons for not knowing the truth, but I’m not telling” comes out.
Two comments:
1. Why does Laura only eat 1,000 calories per day?
2. Virtue is its own reward. (hokey, but true.) Don’t worry about other people who can’t get their S**T together. It will make you bitter and unhappy (like only eating 1,000 calories per day.)
“you can buy a second router and set it up as a repeater but it’s a pain in the butt to set up.”
That’s why you buy an extender instead of a second router. Almost plug and play; up and running under 15 if you know enough to do basic network setup.
“1. Why does Laura only eat 1,000 calories per day?”
Icky can give you the password to the beta-wiki.
“Although my choice would be the sw side of Maui or Southern Thailand instead of South America it sure would be fun to move the family and slow down the pace of life.”
This month’s edition of Islands magazine is devoted to people who just upped and moved to an island to live. You should check it out. You only live once. It’s not like Maui isn’t in the United States. Just go.
“you can buy a second router and set it up as a repeater but it’s a pain in the butt to set up.”
“That’s why you buy an extender instead of a second router. Almost plug and play; up and running under 15 if you know enough to do basic network setup.”
I dunno, it’s prob worth seeing some combination of getting a better router and moving its location if that’s at all possible gets you reliable coverage. Or reallly, if you’re going to be there a while, hardwiring a connection between the router and another access point.
Good plan Sabrina!
Can you feature some properties from Wailea, kanapali, and Kapalua tomorrow?
“Yeah yeah, exemption from wage and price controls. Always fun when the “y’all are morons for not knowing the truth, but I’m not telling” comes out.”
So what’s that supposed to mean?
Between a Hawking HWREN1 Hi-Gain Wireless-300N Range Extender, a NETGEAR Powerline AV 200 Mbps Nano Adapter Kit (XAVB2101), and an apple airport, I’ve managed to extend our cable broadband through the majority of our 100 year old house (plaster and lath baby!)
Although our streaming on the wii works pretty well, I’d still like to hard wire a LAN cable to the basement for my future smart TV. This comment brought to you by icky’s insomnia
“I dunno, it’s prob worth seeing some combination of getting a better router and moving its location if that’s at all possible gets you reliable coverage. Or reallly, if you’re going to be there a while, hardwiring a connection between the router and another access point.”
Most household appliances with internet connections are only 10/100 and not 10/100/1000. Wiring with Cat6 is total overkill these days for home networking especially since Cat5e is more than qualified to handle the flow of 10/100/1000 even though nothing in the house except the router and the network card on your computer can handle those speeds. Your cable modem probably isn’t even a gigabit and as of now
(and for the forseeable future) the fiber speeds aren’t coming to town. Your hard drive can’t spin fast enough to handle the data from a gigbit speed. My samsung plasma smart tv with a 10/100 is hardwired to a cat5 cable with a gigabit router to my computer with a gigabit network card and it plays any file 1080p I can throw at it with no hiccups. I know there are higher standards coming but hell, I just cut copper wires in my house that are 50 years old and I have no intention of replacing them.
“Can you feature some properties from Wailea, kanapali, and Kapalua tomorrow?”
Go read Islands magazine. I don’t know why people put off their dreams until they’re 65.
Also- Hawaii real estate is boring! The most boring I’ve ever seen. It’s like a bad suburb. There’s no good architecture there.
“So what’s that supposed to mean?”
It means your trolling skills are weak.
“Your hard drive can’t spin fast enough to handle the data from a gigbit speed.”
hard drive, spin?
dude, get with the times… solid state drives!
They are the fucking awesomest
“dude, get with the times… solid state drives!”
HD needs to serve terabytes of porn…I mean movies from a central server somewhere.
But seriously, if you want a terabyte or two of redundant storage, solid state is a bit pricey.
You don’t use SSD’s for massive storage purposes thats what external hard drives are for. Use them for performance purposes. But still they aren’t “that” expensive if you buy them on cyber monday, I got 500 gigs for like 220 bucks last year. Plenty of storage for my needs
“You don’t use SSD’s for massive storage purposes thats what external hard drives are for”
I understand but the massive storage is the stuff HD has stored somewhere (hopefully not the basement). He prob has petabytes of torrents.
Yeah why do you think he’s having all this work done, he’s actually installing a water cooled data center in his basement
“water cooled data center in his basement”
Haha. It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.
I could be bored here…
http://www.trulia.com/property/3114031615-455-Laulea-Pl-Paia-HI-96779#photo-2
You will not get bored with the architecture with my favorite rental house in Maui.
http://www.vrbo.com/201066
“I could be bored here…
http://www.trulia.com/property/3114031615-455-Laulea-Pl-Paia-HI-96779#photo-2”
Wow. Showing us a $10 million house. Duh!
Couldn’t find a $500,000 or $1 million house that was even remotely interesting could ya? Because there aren’t any. All the houses look the same. UGLY!
I watched that Hawaii Life show on HGTV for awhile (is it even still on?) but stopped after like 3 episodes because the real estate was soooooo boring. I never liked Hawaii for that reason. I’m sure there are some historic towns somewhere on the island that have some interesting houses- but I’m too lazy to look because everything else is so ugly.