How Hot Is the Single Family Home Market? 2164 W. Leland in Lincoln Square
This 3-bedroom single family home at 2164 W. Leland in Lincoln Square recently came on the market.
It is in a prime Lincoln Square location just a block and a half to the shops and restaurants on Lincoln and also easy access to several brown line El stops.
The house has had updates including in the kitchen which is custom with concrete counter tops and stainless steel appliances. (According to the 2008 listing- those updates had already been done by the time of that sale.)
The upstairs bathroom has a double vanity and skylights along with a claw foot tub.
Built on an oversized 37.5×123 lot, the house has a two car garage and central air/space pak (I can’t tell if it has both of those or just one of those.)
The basement is finished and has a half bath and a recreation room and office.
Listed $6500 under the 2008 price, will this sell quickly given its price and location?
Eric Rojas at Prudential Rubloff has the listing. See more pictures here.
2164 W. Leland: 3 bedrooms, 2 full and 2 half baths, 2 car garage, no square footage listed
- Sold in August 1995 for $209,000
- Sold in October 1997 for $264,500
- Sold in August 2008 for $805,500
- Currently listed for $799,000
- Taxes of $7925
- Central Air/Space Pak
- Bedroom #1: 12×15 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 12×13 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 11×12 (second floor)
- Recreation room: 15×27 (lower level)
Lovely home in a mediocre to bad school district. Shrinks the market somewhat. But given what’s out there right now, if you’re sending your kids to private school and can afford this, maybe a good option. A lot closer to $700 than $800, though.
And usually I interpret central air/space pak as “we put a space pak in and it’s sorta like central air” right?
Me likey, but no can affordy. Here’s a very similar* home three miles west for $400K less.
* by similar I mean the layout and bones are close though obviously the features are not.
of course it helps to provide the link 😀
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4453-N-Saint-Louis-Ave-60625/home/13486317
great bellweather SFH, should really help determine where the market truly is….will be interesting to follow. I’m thinking it will skew more towards clio’s vision of the market, than it does HD’s.
oooh, I love this house! This is the exact location and price range we are looking for.
too close to the el
Not much in the way of storage/closets is a big drawback for me i.e master bedroom, entrance, etc. Would have made a better 2 bedroom home. And only the master tub?
Love!
Icarus, I have to take issue with your comp — that’s all the way on the other side of Kimball, a *totally* different area. And not as nice (and a FSBO). LS/RG/RM covers a fairly small area.
I don’t think this totally is out of line with *listing* prices in that part of LS right now, but it does need to come down.
Here’s one in Coonley that I’m surprised on.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4341-N-Bell-Ave-60618/home/13391404
I know the owners. Thought their list was crazy (they bought for $850 in 4/09, listed for $875), but it’s under contract. I know they want to move, but unless they accepted a really lowball offer, this is going for much more and much faster than I expected.
@anonanon, that was my point. you have to go two (or three?) neighborhoods west to get something similar for half the price.
Interestingly I saw the St Louis home first and thought it was a good find, until I saw Eric’s next Easy-Commission-Listing and now I’m drooling.
Incidentially, it’s not a FSBO, it just sold and the transaction was handled by Eric’s brokerage (but not Eric).
THis place and nonya’s are both cute. I am not familiar with the neighborhood though.
I like the house and reno. No idea on price. That Wilson house we talked about closed at what seemed like a crazy low price.
Isn’t this a lot of money for a SFH in Lincoln Square? Can’t I get similar in Lincoln Park or Lakeview (which I think I could) for the same prince?
Also, look at the price difference between the early 1990’s and now. I know that the area has improved, but I wonder if such gains are sustainable?
Beautiful place, nice house, looks big, I like. I don’t like the price (of course), I think this will be a tough sell at this price point. Here’s the best comp I could find and it’s $200,000 cheaper.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4730-N-Winchester-Ave-60640/home/13391082
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4926-N-Bell-Ave-60625/home/13403705
$810,000 sale in January; bigger home, nicer, smaller lot though.
I am sick and tired of so many people saying “the price is too high” – well, if the price is too high, there wouldn’t be buyers buying these places (and, if you look at what is going under contract, you will see that many of these places DO command these prices). The bottom line is that we are dealing with a bunch of spoiled entitled brats who think that it is their right to live in a huge SFH with the best finishes in the most desirable location for little money. The sooner you guys realize that this is NOT going to happen, the sooner you can start making the necessary compromises and living your life.
^^
DO not feed the trolls.
LOL @ clio.
Sure I wish the price was lower so I could afford it. But I also think it’s a bad idea to buy an $800k house in a mediocre school district. And if I were to do such a thing, it would have to be in a spectacular location. With amazing finishes. This is a really nice house with really nice finishes in a good to great location. But still that mediocre school.
In other words, a comp in Coonley or Bell isn’t really a comp in my book.
But I’m sure someone with more money than me and an eye on private schools will like this house. Still say that it’ll sell for closer to $700.
“Here’s one in Coonley that I’m surprised on.”
Schulter retires and they want to leave his block before it goes downhill?
“bunch of spoiled entitled brats who think that it is their right to live in a huge SFH with the best finishes in the most desirable location for little money. ”
And we want more closet space and not too close/far from the El 😀
“I am sick and tired of so many people saying “the price is too high””
Opinions don’t matter, facts do. When this property closes there will be a number that supports the market for it. I would say that the buyers who repeatedly say properties are overpriced fall into one of 2 categories:
1- Jealous: They actually like the place but can’t afford it
2- Uninformed: They actually like the place and can afford it at a lower bid that might be accepted if they actually did their homework.
I agree about people complaining about the prices, and this house in this location may very well sell at this price point. But people are also correct that this amount of money can get you a nice(r) house in an arguably nicer location, or at least one closer to downtown, meaning that perhaps it is somewhat but not drastically overpriced. For example, if I had 800K to spend on a house in a not-very-good school district, I would buy this:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3541-N-Hermitage-Ave-60657/home/13386889
If you can get a nice house in Lakeview at an 800K asking price, I would reason that this house should cost at least somewhat less.
Also, how bad is the El noise from here?
ChiBuilder –
Doesn’t everything you say in the second half of your post contradict the first half?
I think some don’t realize how popular Lincoln Square has become over the years. It’s not like people move there if they can’t afford Lakeview…a lot of people prefer it over Lakeview, Lincoln Park, etc, despite being a few miles further from the Loop. Same goes for Andersonville. It’s also the reason that many people expressed an interest in Logan Square on this site yesterday. These neighborhoods are changing and their popularity change as well.
“If you can get a nice house in Lakeview at an 800K asking price, I would reason that this house should cost at least somewhat less.”
I agree. I never understood the prices in Lincoln Square/North Center relative to other options. It’s not that convenient to downtown — why wouldn’t you buy twice the house in Edison Park?
“Doesn’t everything you say in the second half of your post contradict the first half?”
Not exactly sure what you mean, but here is how both of the scenarios play out…
1- “Cant afford it” – If it sells at ask then they were wrong with relation to the market. But jealous because they wanted it.
2- “Could’ve had it” – They were right, but had no idea they could have bid according to the market with comps.
In either case my point is that most buyers on CC that continuously complain about prices are more likely mad about how the market works than overall list prices.
@anon (tfo) – ha! didn’t realize that schulter was on their block. maybe they’re moving to pawar’s block.
“Opinions don’t matter, facts do.”
Chibuilder, you forget one:
3-Informed: They actually understand that the market is still in decline and do not care what knifecatchers are willing to pay today for what will be worth less tomorrow.
I do understand that LS is very popular. I like that area and know lots of people that have moved up there. It’s farther from the city but the Metra really cuts down on travel time if you live close enough to utilize it. Nevertheless, prices still reflect that Lakeview is a more coveted area in general. You can get a lot more for your money in LS, so my argument is only that if a comparable or even nicer house can be purchased in LV for this price very close to the train, this house should sell for less.
“In either case my point is that most buyers on CC that continuously complain about prices are more likely mad about how the market works than overall list prices.”
I am not really mad about how the market works, more mad about how the common man’s brain works.
“why wouldn’t you buy twice the house in Edison Park?”
and for half the cost!!!
see chibuilder this is a post reflecting my common man’s brain comment
“If you can get a nice house in Lakeview at an 800K asking price, I would reason that this house should cost at least somewhat less.”
While I, too, like that house better, it isn’t as expensively (nicely?) fixtured, is on a standard lot rather than a lot and a half, and is in a less than preferable location relative to major streets/traffic.
That said, Hamilton is well ahead of McPherson on acceptability. Many parents seem to be seeking out Hamilton and see it as a plus.
I like the house,
which probably was once/started as a 2br (all main floor) with unfinished attic and unfinished basement.
I would think with all the floor plan remodeling, dormer and attic finishing, and replumbing the kitchen to where its at, that they put in C/A throughout. and the space pak is a typo. but who knows in this crazy world as i am jealous and cant afford this home 🙁
Why did everyone ignore my comp 2 blocks away for $200,000 less? Duh!
Jealously plays no part.
This place is a steal at that price. I bet it sells in less than two weeks. I agree with Clio, if someone can’t afford the place, they tend to bash it. Are we really talking about anything in Edison Park and comparing it to this place. Pleeeez….
ChiBuilder:
You said this: “Opinions don’t matter, facts do. When this property closes there will be a number that supports the market for it.”
Then followed it with a couple of opinions disguised as facts because you numbered them. We’ll see what it closes for. But $800k seems awfully high.
“Why did everyone ignore my comp 2 blocks away for $200,000 less? Duh!”
sorry i guess we assumed it was next to a on/off ramp and so then not likely 2 blocks away
Here is a comp to consider.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2148-W-Agatite-Ave-60625/home/13391750
It is a 3/2.5 with central air and garage parking on a 37.5 foot lot. It is in a similar location on an EXCELLENT short street with virtually no thru traffic. This place is under contract. I believe was purchased by an actual realtor and his wife. Assuming that they bought it at less than list price it seems to indicate that the featured home is over by at least $100K.
I visited your comp HD
It was on the market forever because it was priced to high for a long time.
1. It is located on dead end street right at McPherson which means a double parking traffic jam twice a day.
2. Tired mid 90s rehab. Small kitchen and no master bath.
” They actually understand that the market is still in decline and do not care what knifecatchers are willing to pay today for what will be worth less tomorrow.”
Oh yeah, G – everyone is a “knifecatcher” except for you and HD. Uh – huh – all those multimillionaires and people earning over 250k are all stupid and don’t know anything. Wow – I wish I could be as smart and “informed” as you.
The finishes in that Winchester house look straight out of Home Depot.
Thanks you Chris M, voice of reason. Not to mention what people pay for Lakewood Balmoral in Edgewater over Lakeview etc…
What train? Ha. This is on other side of Leland. Sorry folks, for many this area of Lincoln Square (Leland, Giddings, Eastwood, Wilson and Oakley, Hoyne, Seeley etc) is much more desirable than Lakeview. Many recent $900K-$1.5M closings surrounding the house. Depending on location in each neighborhood, lot and build, prices can be very comparable.
This is a special home… And I quote Annie Lennox “Would I lie to you?”
When is someone going to mention the suburbs? Heyooohhh!
Albany Park vs. Lincoln Square – no sorry that is not a viable comp
All I know is the eat in kitchen looks REALLLY small.
Another important part to the RE game for some buyers hovers around retirement. Remember that for many people that the sooner they buy the sooner you they will be free of all RE debt. If you are disciplined and buy WITHIN your means then an individual or family can easily be paid down to ZERO in 15 years.
This does not negate the fact that you could potentially buy that same property for less money next year or even a year later. I would argue that most of those people who chose to wait for prices to drop did not save those incremental dollars that they did not spend in higher mortgage payments, taxes, and repairs in 2009, 10, and 11 to put more down on their eventual purchase. This means that they will be two or three years older until they are debt free.
I guess it is a combination of my age, future education costs for our daughter, and tax season right around the corner shaping my comment today. One huge benefit of home ownership is actually OWNING a home. This gives people great freedom, flexibility, and peace of mind, The sooner that this can be achieved the better.
This is the Wilson house that has been on CC:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2174-W-Wilson-Ave-60625/home/13392095
No curb appeal whatsoever but nice interior and I dig the big lot. I like Lincoln Square a lot and frequent the shops and bars.
As others noted, the school is the killer here. Really I am not sure this will fetch over 725, but hope they get more.
RE: the Hermitage place. Yes, there are definitely people trying to buy specifically in the Hamilton attendance area so this is a draw. Unfortunately this block is not the greatest for that price. On the plus side you do get the double whammy combo of Dunkin Donuts and Burrito House wafting through your windows. Seriously though the block is why the house has not moved (it is priced too high for that stretch.
“I am sick and tired of so many people saying “the price is too high””
The price is too high.
I would take Lincoln Square over Lakeview for sure. How much do you think we should offer on this house? I want it!! It just needs a fence for my dog. The driveway is a huge plus too.
Really, there aren’t that many options that meet all of our criteria in this area of LS and under 800K. I did notice that house on Wilson sold for a great deal. Which makes me think I can look at homes in a higher price point and then we make a low-ball offer.
“Oh yeah, G – everyone is a “knifecatcher” except for you and HD. Uh – huh – all those multimillionaires and people earning over 250k are all stupid and don’t know anything. Wow – I wish I could be as smart and “informed” as you.”
You are a giant knifecatcher as you own many properties. Your networth is likely far below what you think it is too but I’m guessing you don’t mark your real estate holdings to market.
jp3chicago –
That’s a pretty decent comp – except for the school district. Finishes aren’t as nice, but being in Coonley is worth a lot, I would think.
“Then followed it with a couple of opinions disguised as facts because you numbered them. We’ll see what it closes for. But $800k seems awfully high.”
I don’t have an opinion on this house. I don’t know the area or the market within it for a SFH. I just wanted to avoid saying clio is right;)
Okay Eric. I’ll bite….so are the owners moving to the suburbs?!
“Here is a comp to consider. [2148 Agatite]”
Very short but nicely wide, and (again) not as nicely finished. Lots more potential with not too much effort.
School district is non issue if you don’t have children and my guess is that most people buying 800k homes dont mind paying for private school either. I repeat, this home is a steal.
“3-Informed: They actually understand that the market is still in decline and do not care what knifecatchers are willing to pay today for what will be worth less tomorrow.”
I’m only concerned with what the current market can support for the sale of this property. I don’t care whether the buyer is a knife catcher, or trying to move their family into a nice home under their best means, or an investor who thinks they can flip this for $1mil in a year.
“This is the Wilson house that has been on CC:”
Think that was a relo company handling the loss.
“jp3chicago –
That’s a pretty decent comp – except for the school district. Finishes aren’t as nice, but being in Coonley is worth a lot, I would think.”
Agatite house is also McPherson.
Just west of Western, but within easy walking distance of the shops on Lincoln and close to Welles Park. The field house has a large swimming pool and a gym if you’re not too picky.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4537-N-Artesian-Ave-60625/home/13488972
Is that Artesian house an old brick two-flat that’s been coated in stucco? The curb appeal is awful.
No curb appeal? Ha! People twist their necks walking and driving by this house to get a look…very cool setting on the block.
As for the “Wilson” house, the relocation company that bought it out… had it in their inventory and DUMPED it. That deal is long gone and dare I say…the “deal of the century?”. I’m cracking myself up today.
“Oh yeah, G – everyone is a “knifecatcher” except for you and HD. Uh – huh – all those multimillionaires and people earning over 250k are all stupid and don’t know anything. Wow – I wish I could be as smart and “informed” as you.”
LOL. Are you suggesting that this seller was not a knifecatcher in 2008? Besides, why do you associate being a knifecatcher with being stupid? It just means they bought a declining asset. It doesn’t make them stupid if the money at risk is not a great concern to them.
One thing is certain, clio. You aren’t very bright if you need to constantly lie about my opinions and make up data in your pathetic attempts to appear more “informed” than me.
wow hd im surprised you like this so much I think its about 100% overpriced
“I’m only concerned with what the current market can support for the sale of this property.”
No problem, chibuilder. I am not concerned with knifecatchers and what they will pay today while the overall market is still correcting for the excesses of the bubble mania.
“Agatite house is also McPherson.”
“Lots more potential with not too much effort.”
“being in Coonley is worth a lot, I would think”
I guess that if you know that your kid is not that smart then buy the cheaper home but if they show promise then buy the better district…..ok ok settle down everyone I am just kidding!
At the end of the day if public school is not the driving issue to all buyers then I suspect that the $100K premium is far too rich. Since it is an important issue to many buyers then what is the value worth?
It appears that the Agiatte listing is far more square footage above ground. Sure it is built with some converted attic but that space should have greater value then converted basement any day.
Eric,
question is the space pak a typo?
“I like the house,
which probably was once/started as a 2br (all main floor) with unfinished attic and unfinished basement. I would think with all the floor plan remodeling, dormer and attic finishing, and replumbing the kitchen to where its at, that they put in C/A throughout.”
clio: did you see my Q on the oakdale thread? Assuming that most mini-trumps used leverage, refi, more leverage, next down payment, refi, more leverage, down payment, etc. to amass a RE portfolio one by one, how is it all not underwater given 30% price declines, given the debt used to acquire it, and the marginal to zero cash flow investment properties (in the good areas) threw off at acquisition based on market purchase prices?
The only way clio is still above water if if he paid cash or used significant cash on the deals, because others who relied on debt, and then refi proceeds from prior deals to finance the next deal’s downpayment….all of these people have lots of RE debt, little to no equity or cash flow, so how to live an Oak Brook, lambo, pied-a-terre lifestyle based on mini-trump activity? Trump probably lives off his TV show income, LOL… How much wealth/income is from RE versus cash from other sources (i.e. medicine) subsidizing the RE?? I don’t get it. Bob, have you been paying attention to the details?
“I guess that if you know that your kid is not that smart then buy the cheaper home but if they show promise then buy the better district”
If you know your kid will test well, buy the nice house in the crappy district and plan on testing into a school.
“Bob, have you been paying attention to the details?”
Yup. That’s why I like to poke fun at him. He presents himself as some successful mini Trump and if what he said about Boston was true that was the case at that time.
Unfortunately the whole ponzi scheme came crashing down while he was here in Chicagoland he’s left holding many hot potatoes.
Clio a lot of the gains you made in Boston capitalizing off of people’s willing to overpay for turnkey condos is now being slowly whittled away.
Groove, “SpacePac” and NOT a typo… nor a tumor. It’s great, not intrusive duct work.
I’m about to ad radiant heated floors in kitchen, master bath and mudroom to description.
just caught the owner is a broker line in the listing.
The suburbs? Lol. Why talk about the suburbs when we can talk about how Chicago is now more expensive than most of the cooler West Coast cities? Do people think Chicago is the only city with single family homes? I can buy something substantially nicer in Portland, Seattle, and San Diego in a far, far, far superior part of those cities for the same amount of money. Is “only Chicago has single family homes” the next “buy now or be priced out forever”? Or is it “Chicago is the new New York!”? I’ve heard variations of this last one on here a few times in the last month.
Are we entering a time where Chicagoans will brag to Westcoasters about how they aren’t sophisticated enough to live here, like NY’ers do? Or is Chicago going to remain a relatively boring town where Big Dime grads pair-off and stand in line for an hour for brunch at Nookies, and then brag to their parents back in Ohio about how sophisticated brunch is? Lol.
I actually just wrote all that to wind Anon up a bit. Sorry about that, but he called me “dense” or something yesterday so I had to get back at him.
Seriously, though, congratulations to the people who discovered how easy it is to talk young Midwestern parents into a mortgage in Lincoln Square, Roscoe Village, North Center, and So Poor. Wish I would have discovered it.
My mistake on the Agatite house. Could’ve sworn that was the Coonley boundary. Maybe on the south side of the street? Can’t make the site work to check right now…
And +1 for this: “I just wanted to avoid saying clio is right;)”
Eric is this only a three minute bike ride to Wrigley field?
“I’m about to ad radiant heated floors in kitchen, master bath and mudroom to description.”
Maybe it’s just me, but the mudroom off to the side seems less than ideal. It seems more like a utility room than anything else. Not sure I wouldn’t have preferred some other layout. Do appreciate the floorplan though.
“It appears that the Agiatte listing is far more square footage above ground. Sure it is built with some converted attic but that space should have greater value then converted basement any day.”
That 1700 SF seems to be just the 1st and 2d floors–nothing in the attic. Footprint is ~35 x ~27 (hard to adjust for eaves), so 850 per floor makes sense, not counting attic or basement.
Leland house is about the same width, but 5 to ten feet longer, which still leaves the above grade, finished space likely slightly smaller.
What’s it cost to do a whole house in Hardy Board? Including reasonable additional insulation.
i meant typo on inclusion not spelling.
“I’m about to ad radiant heated floors in kitchen, master bath and mudroom to description”
price is making more sense now, even after the space pak (i stick to my errors) oversight.
from pics it look like spacepak thougout? or C/A first floor and Pak second?
Yeah, but I know people here who had appreciation too, they refinanced, took $125K out, put it down on building #2 (which sold at breakeven), so now both properties are marginally cash flowing (oh, but they’ll appreciate, and that’ll solve everything. You know what? they did appreciate, so the mini-trump refinanced the second deal, takes out another $125K, down payment for building 3….all three are now heavy with debt. Repeat a few more times. At the height of the boom/bubble, the mini-trump has a small portfolio of investment properties, thing is…..they’re all leveraged to 80% of more, they barely throw off a cash flow, some are even negative cash flow….then bubble bursts, and values fall by more than 20% so how is there any equity? I’m suggesting that if clio has a significant net worth from RE it can’t be from the mini-trump formula just described, he must have had cash from other sources to subsidize the RE, which would be underwater and barely cash flowing using the standard formula of most mini-trumps. Certainly not enough cash flow to support the OB, Pied, lambo lifestyle….clio, can you clear this up?
“Yup. That’s why I like to poke fun at him. He presents himself as some successful mini Trump and if what he said about Boston was true that was the case at that time.
Unfortunately the whole ponzi scheme came crashing down while he was here in Chicagoland he’s left holding many hot potatoes.
Clio a lot of the gains you made in Boston capitalizing off of people’s willing to overpay for turnkey condos is now being slowly whittled away.”
“I actually just wrote all that to wind Anon up a bit. Sorry about that, but he called me “dense” or something yesterday so I had to get back at him.”
Dense is better than the alternative I considered.
Why do you live here again?
“Why do you live here again?”
Because I’m a miserable person and I like being around people just like me.
“Maybe it’s just me, but the mudroom off to the side seems less than ideal. It seems more like a utility room than anything else. Not sure I wouldn’t have preferred some other layout. Do appreciate the floorplan though.”
Structural wall b/t that area and the kitchen. Seems a quasi-mudroom/pantry, but you don’t put a pantry (1) right in front of the bathroom and (2) blocking the big windows.
Eric: Does it feel more open to the kitchen than the plan makes it seem?
“Because I’m a miserable person and I like being around people just like me.”
Good answer!
Gotta ask…if the property is agent owned why isn’t that agent listing the property?
does a commericial RE broker who works for CB Richard Ellis, Marcus & Millichap, etc. but doesn’t work in residential RE, and ins’t a realtor, etc. have to report that on the MLS listing if he’s selling a house?
“ins’t a realtor”
It’s just capital R realtors?
Q. Must I disclose my status as a real estate licensee every time I am a principal in a real estate transaction?
A. Yes. Every time a licensee is a principal (the seller, buyer, landlord or tenant) in a real estate transaction, the licensee must disclose in writing his or her status as a real estate licensee. The best way to comply with this requirement is to write the disclosure (e.g. “Illinois real estate licensee,” “real estate salesperson,” “real estate broker,” etc.) next to the licensee’s signature on the real estate contract or lease. Another way to comply is to add the disclosure as a printed provision within the contract or lease. Disclosure may also be made by a separate writing (e.g. via a letter to all of the other principals) tendered prior to the execution of the contract or lease. However, simply providing the licensee’s business card to all of the principals is insufficient disclosure.
If a licensee signs a real estate contract or lease as an employee of the principal (e.g. as an officer of a corporation that is the seller), the licensee must make the same disclosure.
See Sections 10-27 and 10-30(c) of the Act and Rule 1450.190.
Chicago isn’t that bad. Those West Coast cities aren’t an answer, they’re miserable places in 2011 too. I wish I could’ve visited those places in 1962 when they were still normal, clean, wholesome, fun, outdoorsy, all-american, less all-around crap, etc. Would’ve been a great place to have been a Boy scout. Now, it’s this hellhole:
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/16/133748144/history-hinders-diversification-of-portland-ore
‘A Mecca For The Misplaced’
“This seems to be a mecca for the misplaced half-caste rock-and-rollers,” Gardiner says. “A lot of half-rican, halfie, half-black, half-white rockers out here and metal heads and punk rockers. I like that a lot. It seems to be that I chose the correct place to come if this is where we’re all flocking to.”
I do not see why licensees should have to disclose when they are the buyer or tenant.
I have the space pac / radiator set-up and can vouch for it. My prior place had forced air / heat. I much prefer the radiator / space pac arrangement.
To me the biggest drawbacks for this house are: (1) el noise, and (2) the apartment building next door. On the second point — when I bought my house (after a several year long search) one of my main criteria was no apartment building next door. I wanted a house because I wanted more peace and quiet. Was not interested in paying $xxx to live next to a multi-family building.
That said, for the young family interested in Lincoln Square, this seems like a surprisingly low price for a house in this condition in this location. My advice to any potential buyer: sit in every single bedroom (maybe lay down on the bed) and wait for a train to go by.
No one has asked the obvious question; why do parents feel compelled to spell their kids name in wooden letters above the crib?
Are these people so brain dead that they can’t remember the baby’s name without reading the f-ing wall first?
LOL Kevin. I always wondered this as well and I have kids (but I do remember their names and occassionaly call one of them by the dogs name by accident ) Those first few sleep deprived months can have you forgetting things.
Dan, yes, every real estate agent/broker license holder must disclose this fact when they are a party to any RE transaction.
BTW, “Realtor” is a title owned by the NAR and only licensed brokers/agents who belong to the NAR can use this trademark. It should always be capitalized.
ChrisM, the seller is apparently an attorney who holds a license but doesn’t appear to practice as a broker. Attorneys qualify for a RE broker’s license upon acceptance to practice law in the state. They just have to send in the app and pay the fee.
“Are these people so brain dead that they can’t remember the baby’s name without reading the f-ing wall first?”
Well, (taking your view of the world) there’s some evidence they have trouble figuring out where the bath is too, so it may all be perfectly reasonable.
Kevin and Trudi – this always cracks me up. I told my husband that I would love to see someone selling their place put up some pretty letters that spell something not so pretty just to see if people notice…. how great would it to be to see “Bastard” in baby blue letters or “Bit&^” in pretty soft pink! I really got sick of seeing it during my house hunt days and could have used a double take and the laugh I would have gotten out of it!
Caveat Emptor. This place is currently assessed at only $526,070.
Wife and I lived in Lakeview most of our adult lives, However I would much prefer lincoln square for our 30’s with kids as it’s a nice mix of family and adult lifestyle. Leland Location is ideal as you are very short distnaces to shops, el and metra.
I just don’t know if the public schools will turn here fast enough. There is a movement but the head winds of the state and city budget are getting in the way.
Only way for a family to go this route though is private schools. Even if the elementary schools improve enough for the early years what are you going to do for high school? 2 choices bend over and pay the private school tuition which tops on an extra 75-100k onto the purchase price per kid or uproot them and move to the suburbs at one of the most delicate social times of their lives. Neither is ideal unless you are considerably wealthy.
Trump got $200M inheritance from his dad back in the late ’90’s. This is what he’s living off of as well as his tv show earnings. The rest is just funny money/paper wealth that really isn’t phenomenal right now. He is losing a lot of money on Trump Tower downtown and even had to put in a significant amount of his own equity into it.
As for this property, I think it goes for $750-770K, so it probably is priced about right. Offer $740, and settle on $770 and call it a day.
“ChrisM, the seller is apparently an attorney who holds a license but doesn’t appear to practice as a broker. Attorneys qualify for a RE broker’s license upon acceptance to practice law in the state. They just have to send in the app and pay the fee.”
What makes attorneys so special that they are automatically qualified to qualify for a broker’s license and not other graduate degrees? Is real estate law required in law school? If not (and I don’t believe it is) this seems non-sensical to me.
Attorneys should be bound by the same restriction as anyone else when it comes to obtaining a RE license.
“and San Diego in a far, far, far superior part of those cities for the same amount of money.”
Haaaaa haaaa, that was my laugh of the day. Not in SD my friend at least not in an area that is far far superior part of SD.
“Haaaaa haaaa, that was my laugh of the day. Not in SD my friend at least not in an area that is far far superior part of SD.”
I think he meant “South San Diego”, which some commonly refer to by it’s pre-boom name as Tijuana.
Bob – Thanks for my second great laugh of the day. Tijuanat is indeed superior to Lincoln Square and has great deals on strippers, tequila, and cases of Corona’s which could lower some individuals true cost of living.
“He is losing a lot of money on Trump Tower downtown and even had to put in a significant amount of his own equity into it. ”
Not losing money yet–he learned from his past mistakes. He has only a $40MM personal guarantee on Trump Tower Chicago.
Deutsche Bank is on the hook for $600MM and Trump and them already went to court and he got more favorable terms. Loan now isn’t due until September 2015 (it has been extended numerous times before).
In previous litigation regarding the loan Trump had the gall to sue DB for “predatory lending practices” for $3B. LMAO.
What’s on the door in the master bedroom, Bail? and where does that door go?
Hardie siding is now a selling point…
http://www.redfin.com/CA/West-Hollywood/510-N-Crescent-Heights-Blvd-90048/home/7104595
I can buy a 3 bedroom in West Hollywood for roughly the same price as this home.
the Lincoln square has been californized. My goodness. LA I can understand the crazy prices with the ocean and the hills and the canyons and the lack of buildable land…. But lincoln Sqaure? does western avenue, the difference between albany park and LS really make ALL that big of a difference?
Even the price history is similiar:
Sep 18, 2003 Sold (Public Records) $692,000
Mar 12, 2002 Sold (Public Records) $504,000
Jul 12, 1996 Sold (Public Records) $265,000
Where does one come across this information, if I might ask?
“Caveat Emptor. This place is currently assessed at only $526,070.”
b: the assessors office. http://www.cookcountyassessor.com
bob: the real estate brokers license has nothing to do with being a realtor and everything to do with things like the definition of fee simple. most lawyers should be able to answer the questions.
“the Lincoln square has been californized. My goodness. LA I can understand the crazy prices with the ocean and the hills and the canyons and the lack of buildable land…. But lincoln Sqaure?”
Didn’t you hear it’s only a two minute bike ride from Wrigley Field???
“Bob – Thanks for my second great laugh of the day. Tijuanat is indeed superior to Lincoln Square and has great deals on strippers, tequila, and cases of Corona’s which could lower some individuals true cost of living.”
Don’t forget prescription drugs, Pacifico beer (far superior to Corona IMO) and Jesse Ventura lives south down on the Baja so if it really hits the fan you can go try to crash his Jesse Venture apocalypse bunker.
The house in west hollywood (down the street from beverly hills i might add) sold in the $200’s in 1996, and the CA house hold in the 200’s in 1995. same crazy price increases, same sort of questionable iffy gentrifying area. californization of prices in LS. put this house in albany park a few blocks away and it sells for $350,000 tops.
Being a licensed broker doesn’t entitle you to receiving the cooperative compensation listed in the MLS. You need to be a member of the MLS, which requires Realtor membership. Why would an attorney want to hold the broker license?
What about properties that are overassessed relative to market value? I know the assessed value is supposed to coincide with market value but I don’t usually notice a strong correlation between the two.
“The house in west hollywood (down the street from beverly hills i might add) ”
RF may have it listed as West Hollywood, but it’s in LA.
“Caveat Emptor. This place is currently assessed at only $526,070.”
G, you are obviously lying again. It isn’t assessed at 526k.
That is the implied market value per the assessor, which is meaningless insofar as value goes. Since when do we rely on Berrios merry band of sycophants to tell us what properties will sell for? It is only relevant to the extent you will get reassessed based on your PP. Max tax exposure here is less than 3k assuming typical discount to list (725k ish trade), and that is assuming no price reductions, which seems unlikely.
“What makes attorneys so special that they are automatically qualified to qualify for a broker’s license and not other graduate degrees? Is real estate law required in law school? If not (and I don’t believe it is) this seems non-sensical to me.”
The pertinent material tested on the real estate licensing exam is adequately covered by the bar exam, and the bar admissions requirements exceed those of real estate licenses. Every first year law student is required to take a full semester property course, which, depending on the school and/or professor, will entail anywhere from a day to a month’s worth of “real estate” material. Many law students then elect to take a real estate course in the second or third year. I would say that the “law” aspects of a broker’s exam (e.g., disclosure, agency, racial discrimination, the bare basics of contracts and conveying an interest in property, etc.) are the most substantive part of the exam (at least for the entry-level salesperson license, which is how brokers start out in many states). If someone graduates from law school, passes the bar, and clears the character and fitness review, he or she should certainly be eligible for a real estate license (after paying the licensing fee, of course). No other graduate degrees (e.g., MD, PhD, MBA) or credentialing exams (e.g., CPA, boards, etc.) test the disclosure/agency/racial discrimination issues covered on real estate licensing exams, nor does entry into any other licensed field require the degree of character vetting for getting admitted to a bar (say what you will about how lawyers behave once admitted, but they’re not getting admitted with any major problems indicating a lack of trustworthiness
I agree with annony that all first year law students take a class on property law their first year of school. I disagree with everything else.
We didn’t learn shit about real estate law in our property class. We learned about esoteric concepts of property law (think economic professors wondering in 50 page papers whether requiring building permits is a good thing). We also learned about interesting but seldom used concepts like adverse possession (move your fence two feet over into your neighbor’s yard. if they don’t notice for 20 years you can say you own everything on your side of the fence!).
“Max tax exposure here is less than 3k assuming typical discount to list (725k ish trade)”
Hence, caveat emptor. Way to pick up on one of my points again. Keep it up and your reputation might just change for the better here.
Are all the posters here with “anon” in their name attorneys?
“Are all the posters here with “anon” in their name attorneys?”
Say what you will about attorneys, but generally unless they’re a tax attorney creativity isn’t their strong suit.
“Since when do we rely on Berrios merry band of sycophants to tell us what properties will sell for?”
Berrios didn’t set that assessed value. Feel free to use that fact, too, in the future so you don’t continue to sound uninformed.
alanon: That is why I qualified it with “depending on the school and/or professor, will entail anywhere from a day to a month’s worth of “real estate” material.” Are you telling me that your property professor didn’t spend so much as one single class session covering “real estate” law?
“Are you telling me that your property professor didn’t spend so much as one single class session covering “real estate” law?”
Correct. Closest we got was a discussion about whether it made economic sense to forbid landlords from discriminating based on race. I paid $100k for law degree but had to hire an attorney to do both of my real estate closings.
“Say what you will about attorneys, but generally unless they’re a tax attorney creativity isn’t their strong suit.”
Hey . . . my handle has a pretty good pun it, no?
“I paid $100k for law degree but had to hire an attorney to do both of my real estate closings.”
What that about a lawyer who represents himself?
“Hey . . . my handle has a pretty good pun it, no?”
doesn’t it mean your an ex-drunk?
“Jesse Ventura lives south down on the Baja”
I’d be looking up Sammy “Cabo Wabo” Haggar if I got down there! That or hanging out on the ocean at a slightly famous suburban Chicago podiatrist’s winter pad. He has several clinics named after him and a picture of a foot on the bottom of his pool. Nice!
If you ever want to see a fustercluck, attend a RE closing being handled by an attorney who doesn’t practice real estate.
Even worse are when the buyer/seller is a recent law school grad and decides they want show everyone how smart they are by attempting to negotiate and rewrite every single paragraph in the closing documents.
Haaaaa haaaa, that was my laugh of the day. Not in SD my friend at least not in an area that is far far superior part of SD.
JP3, looks like you need to get out of the sticks, brah.
Do you know what PB or La Jolla are? Look out the front window of this house. Do you know what that is? Keep laughing.
http://realestate.yahoo.com/California/San_Diego/1040-van-nuys-st:f623271aeeccf9fff3b9b5f5b241fe0;_ylt=Ar1OmPVCi5ovYTmBi3dpko9n47Qs
No, not all of the anon’s are lawyers. This one has the much derided BA.
“Look out the front window of this house. Do you know what that is? ”
A culdesac?
“A culdesac?”
Well, that and the other thing that doesn’t exist in Lincoln Sqaure.
I know, I know, who wants to live in a commoner’s cul de sac with an ocean view when then can live cheek to cheek with their sophisticated neighbors in beautiful Lincoln Square for the same amount of money? I bet there isn’t even a decent brunch line in PB!
A view of the ocean would be nice. But honestly chibull, I find that house depressing.
“Do you know what PB or La Jolla are? Look out the front window of this house. Do you know what that is? Keep laughing.”
But how long is the bike ride to Wrigley Field from here?
What’s a water cert? But my condo assoc pays the water bill!
all things aside, IL is one of the few states that still uses lawyers in RE transactions. most states have gone the cheaper route in which property transactions go into ‘escrow’ at the title company. Some $9.00 clerk processes papers that can take MONTHS or longer and then calls you one day “the property is funded it’s all yours now.” and then you go and pick up the keys.
“#Russ on April 5th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
If you ever want to see a fustercluck, attend a RE closing being handled by an attorney who doesn’t practice real estate.
Even worse are when the buyer/seller is a recent law school grad and decides they want show everyone how smart they are by attempting to negotiate and rewrite every single paragraph in the closing documents.”
I’m just as confused as Groove here. Eric says it’s not a typo. Is “SpacePac” like a nonpropietary SpacePak? Avoiding TM issues or something? Never seen that before. Lawyers/Real-TOREs, please explain.
“Eric Rojas on April 5th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
Groove, “SpacePac” and NOT a typo… nor a tumor. It’s great, not intrusive duct work. “
I find the LS house infinetly more depressing.
That’s not the point though, the point is Chicago’s RE prices have surpassed their West Coast counter parts in every city except SF and LA. How long can that possibly last?
“I know, I know, who wants to live in a commoner’s cul de sac with an ocean view when then can live cheek to cheek with their sophisticated neighbors in beautiful Lincoln Square for the same amount of money?”
Dunno about the ocean view, as it (1) seems unlikely from the streetview and (2) will be blocked as soon as the gravel lot neighbor builds. Must be nice to have driveway directly out your windows on both sides and have neither of them be yours.
This one: http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/1265-Archer-St-92109/home/5125004
Has that hardcore curb repel and trailer home vibe that you get in much of San Diego, but has *real* ocean views for only a little more.
And infinitely more depressing, too!
“Hence, caveat emptor. Way to pick up on one of my points again. Keep it up and your reputation might just change for the better here.”
Keep “lying” G. Or, in other words, demonstrating your ignorance not knowing what the data you are posting *actually means*
Of course, if you were actually looking for a home that assessed over 500k (where you thought this one did), I can direct you to one:
http://www.cookcountyassessor.com/Property_Search/property_details.aspx?pin=5173080050000
Tough street view, but that is one of the perks of being a billionaire.
SpacePac. Everyone should have one.
http://www.merikor.com/
“That’s not the point though, the point is Chicago’s RE prices have surpassed their West Coast counter parts in every city except SF and LA. How long can that possibly last?”
Well . . . I’m not sure this is true. Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t, but nothing you’ve posted makes the point so clear to me. We could spend all day post links to individual houses. But unless someone can confirm the neighborhoods are comparable, then I don’t think that proves anything.
Also, don’t the carve-outs for SF and LA answer your question? Are there other areas in California where income potential is higher than in Chicago?
“Berrios didn’t set that assessed value. Feel free to use that fact, too, in the future so you don’t continue to sound uninformed.”
Really? Oh I thought he personally did. Thanks for setting me straight moron.
“That’s not the point though, the point is Chicago’s RE prices have surpassed their West Coast counter parts in every city except SF and LA. How long can that possibly last?”
Santa Barbara?
http://www.trulia.com/home_prices/California/Santa_Barbara-heat_map/
Manu Chao – “Welcome to Tijuana”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuktJ8mppE0
west of green bay road. bah.
next.
“#JMM on April 5th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
“Hence, caveat emptor. Way to pick up on one of my points again. Keep it up and your reputation might just change for the better here.”
Keep “lying” G. Or, in other words, demonstrating your ignorance not knowing what the data you are posting *actually means*
Of course, if you were actually looking for a home that assessed over 500k (where you thought this one did), I can direct you to one:
http://www.cookcountyassessor.com/Property_Search/property_details.aspx?pin=5173080050000
Tough street view, but that is one of the perks of being a billionaire.”
“Are there other areas in California where income potential is higher than in Chicago?”
“But unless someone can confirm the neighborhoods are comparable, then I don’t think that proves anything.”
Seattle, Portland, and San Diego. Those are the other West Coast “cities”. They are not all in Cali, nor are all “on the coast”, but that’s not the point.
PB and La Jolla are nicer than Lincoln Square. You’re just going to have to take me at my word on that.
“Santa Barbara?”
SB isn’t really what I was going for, nor is Newport Beach or any of the other OC towns. Yes, those do and (probably) will always sell way above Chicago.
Every time I see a little cottage selling for 750+ in this town outside of LV, LP, and BT/WP alarm bells start going off.
“PB and La Jolla are nicer than Lincoln Square. You’re just going to have to take me at my word on that.”
I’ll second that.
La Jolla and Pacific Beach are very different though. And yeah it’s almost all nicer than Lincoln fing Square. Lincoln Square has always struck me as just another average north side neighborhood for yuppies who cannot afford Lake View.
“Really? Oh I thought he personally did. Thanks for setting me straight moron.”
LOL. Berrios wasn’t the assessor for the 09 tri. You should stick to repeating my points.
In response to JMM’s comment that “Lincoln Square has always struck me as just another average north side neighborhood for yuppies who cannot afford Lake View.”
Gawker — Born Rich gaming heir, Luke Weil, sued Johnson & Johnson heir, Jamie Johnson, to stop his documentary, “Born Rich,” from being distributed. The documentary includes several obnoxious quotes by Weil, who says he was tricked into speaking on film. The documentary also includes appearances by Ivanka Trump, Si Newhouse IV, Georgina Bloomberg, and Vanderbilt/Whitney scion, Josiah Hornblower.
Words of wisdom from Mr. Weil:
On the advantages of being filthy rich: “If someone from some shitty little town in Connecticut is pissing you off” you can say, “Fuck you, I?m from New York and my family can buy your family.”
“Seattle, Portland, and San Diego.”
Are you offering these cities as West Coast cities where someone in the market for an expensive house would expect to make more than in Chicago? If so, I’m skeptical of all three. Unless we’re limiting the universe to computer programmers.
“PB and La Jolla are nicer than Lincoln Square. You’re just going to have to take me at my word on that.”
I don’t understand your point? Since when are real estate prices tied solely to some nebulous idea about how “nice” a place is? They may very well be “nicer” than Lincoln Square. That doesn’t mean they are “comparable” for real estate comparison.
latest home in OIP next to the highway
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4159-N-Kenneth-Ave-60641/home/13482198
price non-negotiable in late 2010 at $300,000
relisted today at $265,000
price still non-negotiable
what a non-negotiable dump
Hey . . . my handle has a pretty good pun it, no?”
yes. how’d you come up with it?
“what a non-negotiable dump”
Here’s your LA comp:
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Los-Angeles/2423-S-Redondo-Blvd-90016/home/6900422
Slightly surprised I found one so good quite so quickly.
“LOL. Berrios wasn’t the assessor for the 09 tri. You should stick to repeating my points.”
Really? I had no idea. There was an election? Plus I actually thought the assessor actually reviewed this very property himself and determined the value. By fiat. I am stunned this is not the case. They have minions? This is cook county right?
Chibull — Law firms often publish salary data for associates. Not a perfect data set, but a starting point to compare the cities. Here’s the data for senior associates (i.e., 7 years out of school, up for partner, likely in the market for a new house).
San Diego: two firms with offices in both cities and up to date salary info. Firm A: Chicago base = $240k / San Diego base = $200k. Firm B: Chicago base = $250k / San Diego Base = $205k.
Portland: can’t find firms with offices in both locations that have published up to date salary info. However, the highest published salary I can find for a senior associate at a Portland firm is $120k. So the spread is $120-130k.
Seattle: can’t find firms with offices in both locations that have published up to date salary info. But the highest published salary I can find for a senior associate at a Seattle firm is $215k. However, that appears to be an outlier. Most other published salaries are sub-$200k. So let’s call the spread $35k-60k.
In each instance, that difference in income alone is almost enough to pay the mortgage on a $750k house.
This tells me you may have it backwards. If a house in Lincoln Square is priced the same as a house in San Diego, it probably doesn’t mean the Lincoln Square house is overpriced. It may mean it’s underpriced. Or that the San Diego house is over priced.
Hey . . . my handle has a pretty good pun it, no?”
yes. how’d you come up with it?”
i can’t take credit. someone on the site complained there were too many anon’s and proposed some alternatives. i don’t remember who. but i chose the one that seemed most fitting.
anon was that house in the movie “boyz in the hood”? looks like ice cube’s house… LOL
dammit totally wrong movie…
“i don’t remember who”
probably didn’t have a creative handle
“If a house in Lincoln Square is priced the same as a house in San Diego, it probably doesn’t mean the Lincoln Square house is overpriced. It may mean it’s underpriced. Or that the San Diego house is over priced.”
Or that one has *almost nothing* to do with the other.
“probably didn’t have a creative handle”
I dunno; two possibly random capital letters seems pretty creative to me. Unless it’s a euro plate abbreviation thing, in which case it’s pretty uncreative.
also i’m going to go out on a limb and say that chicagobull is an unhappy OC transplant
“Or that one has *almost nothing* to do with the other.”
That would be my position. Just trying to address the question from chibull’s own perspective.
Did I totally miss that one?
CH are you the godfather? Thou who hast given me my name?
“Did I totally miss that one?”
Usually the second hint over the head is a clue, but maybe I was reading into it too much.
“If someone from some shitty little town in Connecticut is pissing you off” you can say, “Fuck you, I?m from New York and my family can buy your family.”
Except some shitty town in Connecticut probably = Darien, Westport not Montrose and Western.
“Except some shitty town in Connecticut probably = Darien, Westport not Montrose and Western.”
Yeah, cuz those city kids will cut you, whoever your parents are.
Found it. CH, many late thanks. Unless you are an attorney, I guess Bob’s point is proven.
—————————
CH on February 19th, 2010 at 11:27 am
“It was much more confusing before I adopted the (tfo).”
true. still would be cool if plain anon would do something to distinguish himself as well (maybe adding a first name, like “al”). i often think it is tfo posting until tfo shows up with a post. really not a big deal i guess.
wonder what ever happened to Ze. it’s like he lost internet access in his favela.
Chi Bull – That was a fair comp but remember my first post that this home is $100K over the comp from three blocks away. Anyone can list at any price. That does not mean that this LS home will sell anywhere close to that number.
Although I do not like the style of that PB home your point is clear that there are always varied price points even in quite specific area. On the surface the higher priced areas of LaJolla where I would like to live are not even close to top end Lincoln Park pricing. In fact most homes in that area will blow out the average price for properties in Kenilworth and Lake Forest etc.
Sure you can snag a good property in Vista Ca as well but that is not my idea of similar San Diego property.
33 properties listed over $5M in LaJolla and multiple are actually listed for over $20M. Whats that old MC Hammer saying….”cant touch that”…at least not in the Chicago area. There are always very clear exceptions but are nowhere near the average San Diego pricing for the average Chicago home.
“Chibull — Law firms often publish salary data for associates. Not a perfect data set, but a starting point to compare the cities. Here’s the data for senior associates (i.e., 7 years out of school, up for partner, likely in the market for a new house). ”
This is such an invalid data set I don’t know where to start. Do you think that all turnkey SFH properties listed in GZ hoods are sold to what you just described? Do you know how small this same set is, especially given many may prefer the suburbs?
Its laughable to assume that because some 7 years out of school BigLaw grads earn 250k base in Chicago that justifies this redonkulous ask price in Lincoln Square. This property is a modest SFH at only three bedrooms. 800k is a big LOL. Try 640k.
“Do you think that all turnkey SFH properties listed in GZ hoods are sold to what you just described?”
Uh, no, and that’s not what I said. I said it’s known data that we can use to compare income between Chicago and three west coast cities. For that it is valid data. It’s apples to apples. It’s just not complete.
I’m surprised you haven’t yet called this place a “crapshack.”
Is this Dorothy’s house from the wizard of Oz?
Wait – why are we comparing chicago to L.A, San Diego or cities on the east coast. There is NO comparison – chicago ranks at the bottom for MANY reasons (but mostly because of the ignorant, ugly simple minded people in this city). The only “big” cities that Chicago is “better” than would, in my opinion, be Detroit, Milwaukee and St. Louis – and then again, maybe not…….
Clio, Maybe it’s not as educated as Stamford and Hartford, where I think you said you went to school, but for me I have nothing but praise for Chicago. Of course being a polar bear would have helped.
Tomorrow in celebration of all things Chicago I will wake and bake and make myself an apple pancake Walker Bros style.
ze – it’s really easy to say you like chicago…. WHEN YOU LIVE IN BAZIL!!!!! I would say nice things also if I were surfing in Malibu!!!
“Chibull — Law firms often publish salary data for associates. Not a perfect data set, but a starting point to compare the cities. Here’s the data for senior associates (i.e., 7 years out of school, up for partner, likely in the market for a new house). ”
I’m with you on this one Bob. I have lawyer friends- some in the bigger firms. They make, what 3 or 4 partners a year in the Chicago office? Even at the BIG Chicago based firms. How many of them already don’t own homes?
Oh- and then you have to buy into the partnership. Quite a nice chunk of change right out of the gate (and then pay things like your own health insurance etc.) None of the lawyers I know were in any position to buy an expensive house the year they made partner (of the few that did.)
It’s really laughable that anyone can think a housing market can be supported by a few hundred people making elevated salaries.
Nah…I loved Chicago in every way but the weather. People were awesome, girls approachable, clean, “THE BEST” food, just enough theater, summers they threw events one after another, great architecture, nice lake and surprising beaches, bike friendly, great shopping. Seriously PLENTY to like.
Now LA is the absolute worst. My tipping point for leaving the US occurred there. HATE LA!
NYC best city in the US if you leave after 3 days.
As I said before, Houston, best city to be a white male.. Dan? Bob?
“There are always very clear exceptions but are nowhere near the average San Diego pricing for the average Chicago home.”
Thank goodness!
This is why I left California. No American dream there. Struggle, struggle, struggle. Run on that treadmill! All of your money going to a very crappy 3 bedroom 1 bath ranch house built in 1950. For what?
No thanks. I’ll take my Chicago greystones built in 1890s with crown molding and fireplaces.
Bri,
Had cell phone issues on the farm but saw the question. I don’t know enough about Columbia to give any advice. All I can say is been to Medellin and Cali once and that was in 05 I think and it was much better than I expected but nothing great either. Oh accept the woman. Truly impressive.
Now one place no one talks about which is very very nice is Uruguay. Punta del Este and Colonia de Sacramento, both Very nice.
Thanks Ze. I had friends who lived in Uruguay but this was about 10 years ago. They hated it! And they’ve lived all over the world. But maybe it has improved since then. A lot can change in 10 years.
“A lot can change in 10 years.”
I’m in shock with what I’ve seen down here in just the past year… If it doesn’t blow itself up the whole world is just going to get better… We were lucky to be born when we were.
clio: “chicago ranks at the bottom for MANY reasons (but mostly because of the ignorant, ugly simple minded people in this city).”
go fuck yourself!
“Wait – why are we comparing chicago to L.A, San Diego or cities on the east coast. There is NO comparison – chicago ranks at the bottom for MANY reasons (but mostly because of the ignorant, ugly simple minded people in this city).”
Clio, you show your own ignorance with comments like this. I’ve lived in NYC, LA, Boston, and Connecticut among other places and now here in Chicago for the past 5+ years (and no, I’m not from here or even the Midwest originally). Chicago can hold its own with all of the cities I’ve lived in. It may be better in some areas and not as good in others when you do a point by point comparison, but it’s a vibrant city and I’ve come to love it. You do realize, don’t you, that L.A. is full of Chicago transplants who spend a good part of their time pining away for Chicago, right? Except for the weather, most of them would tell you they’d take Chicago over L.A. in a day (and don’t get me wrong, I love L.A. on its own merits). Seems to me that you just want to say things that make you sound like you’re better than everyone else in your “listening” area, which in this case, consists mainly of people who live in Chicago. Yawn.
How many lawyers up for partner would really buy this place? It’s next to a multi-unit building and looks a little too small fo such a person and their family.
I’d love to see the stats on how many single family homes there are total in the GZ, and then compare to the North Shore and Park Ridge as well.
Yeah, California for anyone making less than $140k is not going to be fun unless you are renting or have family money, or don’t mind living in a dangerous area or commuting 3 hrs+ a day.
FHA Insured Loans Dominate Top 20 Metro Areas
http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/fha-insured-loans-dominate-top-20-metro-areas-new-near-nothing-down-loan-fha-loans-bailout-billions/
K – it is not called “ignorance” – it is called an opinion and my opinion is as valid as yours. I personally see a HUGE difference between the EAST/WEST coast and Chicago and the main difference is that the people in these other areas are much more educated, open minded, worldly than chicagoans. The main reason is because the coasts are huge melting pots whereas chicago is a very segregated and narrow minded place. Most chicagoans were born and raised here – few transplants but much fewer than the east and west coasts – and, when you don’t travel outside of the city you live in … well, let’s just say that it shows (even people on this site -like …. – are completely intolerant and ignorant in their behavior, etc.). I am not saying that I am better than anyone because of money or education – but I certainly am better than many chicagoans because I am much more open minded. Believe me, if we were in L.A., Boston, or NY, there would be no ignorant comments/discussions on Jews, gays, blacks, etc.
“As I said before, Houston, best city to be a white male.. Dan? Bob?”
Inner Loop 610 is Houston is totally underrated and a great place to be in America, with nice weather too, except harris county has turned blue so the tipping point there is negative now. Like all of the USA, I doubt the girls are as hot as they once were, same goes for Dallas which used to have fastidiously-beautiful girls but now is like a version of the show Cheaters. I don’t want to bore HD with my US is in decline stuff again, so I’ll just end on a positive note and say that inner Loop 610 is a fine place. anything outside of that, I haven’t visited, it can’t be any worse than Cicero, Crestwood, Dolton, Waukegan or any of those places, etc. PS I was shocked to see Houston’s River Oaks which is like Winnetka, smack dab in the middle of Loop 610. It’d be like having Winnetka right in the middle of the northside, with no commute to all the urban city has to offer. Incredible.
Thanks for proving my point, Dan!!
Of all textbook rants, I think my favorite is the “I’m so open minded, I like everyone except __________” rant. It’s just a classic for lack of self-awareness.
I went for his suggesting Texas is in decline because Eva Longoria is replacing Anna Nicole Smith as the pinnacle of ridiculousness.
Jessica Alba, Allesandra Ambrosia, Adriana Lima, Cameron Diaz, Halle Berry…. and on and on and on… it’s awful the results.
“I’m just as confused as Groove here. Eric says it’s not a typo. Is “SpacePac” like a nonpropietary SpacePak? Avoiding TM issues or something? Never seen that before. Lawyers/Real-TOREs, please explain”
I am not confused about the spelling, i am confused why they used spacepak(spacepac) instead of C/A? when obviously this was a major reno and floor plan reconfigure. also the had to have re-plumbed to put the kitchen where a bedroom used to be.
why do all the work and skip the C/A? I love radiant heat and heard its healthier and more efficient (you just loose floor space)
“Of all textbook rants, I think my favorite is the “I’m so open minded, I like everyone except __________” rant. It’s just a classic for lack of self-awareness.”
“There’s only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people’s cultures and the Dutch.”
“I’m with you on this one Bob. I have lawyer friends- some in the bigger firms. They make, what 3 or 4 partners a year in the Chicago office? Even at the BIG Chicago based firms. How many of them already don’t own homes?”
But that was *NOT* what alanon was trying to say–he was making a point that a $750k house in PDX/SEA/SD is “affordable” to a lower % of the local pop than a $750k house in Chicago, because salaries there are lower, and so saying “look what you get for $X in Y” is not a reasonable comparison.
Argue that point all you want (I think there’s truth in it, but it’s also deceptive, so I’d agree in part with both sides), but don’t change the point.
That’s absurd. Most of the state makes less than $140,000 a year and yet there are still 35,000,000 people living there.
“#Dave M on April 5th, 2011 at 10:04 pm
Yeah, California for anyone making less than $140k is not going to be fun unless you are renting or have family money, or don’t mind living in a dangerous area or commuting 3 hrs+ a day.”
That overpriced home has nothing at all to do the ability of partners at law firms being able to afford it.
A much much better example would have been a north shore or barrington house for $800,000 and compare that to an $800,000 ‘crapshack’ 35 miles north of Manhattan or in the westside of LA and say “this is what a partner who can afford to pay $800,000 for a home gets in Chicago vs LA/NYC”
using that little house on leland is not at all indicative of what’s available on the market for $800,000.
“#anon (tfo) on April 6th, 2011 at 7:55 am
“I’m with you on this one Bob. I have lawyer friends- some in the bigger firms. They make, what 3 or 4 partners a year in the Chicago office? Even at the BIG Chicago based firms. How many of them already don’t own homes?”
But that was *NOT* what alanon was trying to say–he was making a point that a $750k house in PDX/SEA/SD is “affordable” to a lower % of the local pop than a $750k house in Chicago, because salaries there are lower, and so saying “look what you get for $X in Y” is not a reasonable comparison.
Argue that point all you want (I think there’s truth in it, but it’s also deceptive, so I’d agree in part with both sides), but don’t change the point.”
“That overpriced home has nothing at all to do the ability of partners at law firms being able to afford it.
A much much better example would have been a north shore or barrington house for $800,000 and compare that to an $800,000 ‘crapshack’ 35 miles north of Manhattan or in the westside of LA and say “this is what a partner who can afford to pay $800,000 for a home gets in Chicago vs LA/NYC”
using that little house on leland is not at all indicative of what’s available on the market for $800,000. ”
Which *STILL* has little to do with alanon’s point. Which was that an HHI of $250k+ is more rare in PDX/SEA/SD than it is in Chicago. Maybe not correct, but that’s what he was getting at, not whether a given person with that sort of income would buy this house or that PB house or anything else.
The thing is, more people move to Portland, Seattle, and SD when they retire than Chicago. This drives the market quite a bit in those places.
Also, in SD, there are a lot of people with $1.5M+ second homes who live and work in LA.
In certain areas of California, $140,000 is almost the minimum income level needed to survive without family money to fall back on, or a serious sacrifice in terms of living space. For example, West LA, Newport Beach, much of Orange County….
I think the original argument was that a buyer could get a better home in a better neighborhood in Seattle, Portland, and San Diego than in Chicago, with the additional implication that Chicago was not as sophisticated as these cities.
One of the responses was that the value is lower in Chicago because people here make more money, using the example of law firm senior associates.
For the original argument, the only city that I think has lower prices is Portland. Seattle is not cheap. San Diego is more expensive than Chicago.
Also, Chicago is an amazing city with most big city amenities. I love NYC, SF, and LA, but Chicago can more than hold its own and is hands down a better value re: real estate. The one draw back, in my mind, is that you will have a greater percentage of the population who are a bit more closed minded, so I am somewhat in agreement with Clio on this. It surprises me the frequency which I hear thinly veiled, if not blatant, racism, homophobia, and sexism. But one can’t let these folks skew the entire view of the city.
Re: the response, I’m not so sure that folks make more in Chicago than they do in Seattle. Maybe true for Portland. For big firms in Seattle and Portland (Davis, Perkins) they pay associates the same as big firms in Chicago or slightly less (10 or 15%).
“In certain areas of California, $140,000 is almost the minimum income level needed to survive without family money to fall back on, or a serious sacrifice in terms of living space. For example, West LA, Newport Beach, much of Orange County….”
Which, of course, is why relatively few Californians live in those places and so many live in Riverside, the Valley, etc, etc. You need the same sort of income to live in Kenilworth, or the gold coast, or whatever, too, if you aren’t sacrificing living space.
Chicago is the cheapest major city in the US if you compare similar neighborhoods and levels of amenities. Chicago is way cheaper than LA, SF, Boston, NYC, Seattle, DC, etc.
In addition, from what I have seen, even when you go to smaller or less dense cities and try to get the same urban or hip neighborhood, the prices are still very high and at the same levels as Chicago or very close. For instance, if you go to Midtown Atlanta you are still going to pay $300-$500k for a 2/2 condo and small worker housing as HD likes to call it is $500k and up. However, if you go to the suburbs of Atlanta, housing is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than the suburbs of Chicago. However, the Atl suburbs are on par with Plainfield and suck just as bad.
Kansas City condos are damn near more expensive than like units in Chicago. Houses in the good down town area neighborhoods are still $500k. Same with Austin, Portland, etc.
Much of this is driven by the buyers of these homes who desire these neighborhoods all have relatively similar incomes. Consulting firms, attorneys, doctors, bankers, middle mgrs, etc all make similar incomes regardless of the city, so the housing prices in certain neighborhood reflect those incomes.
CLIO- As an OC native who calls Chicago home now (for past 15 years). You absolutely have no idea how insulated and closed minded that portion of the West Coast is and always has been. I loved growing up out there. There are few more beautiful areas in the world landscape wise than southern orange county. However, it is devoid of any culture or open mindness. It is a bit of a wasteland intellect wise. I go back several times a year and love to visit, but return thankfully to a city that stimulates my intellect outside the latest plastic surgery procedures.
There are a lot more wealthy people in Southern California than Illiois, not sure as a % of the population, but I think in shear numbers it’s pretty absurd. I remember reading that 750,000 Californians make over $200K per year. That is 2% of the population. Newport Beach is a lot larger in population that Kenilworth and Gold Coast.
I would be shocked, but interested, to see evidence of this
“Kansas City condos are damn near more expensive than like units in Chicago. “
You may be or may not be familiar with the phrase ‘behind the orange curtain’ but that has been a catchphrase associated with orange county for the past 30 years or so and accurately describes the closed mind, ultra, ultra conservative bent of the area.
“Which *STILL* has little to do with alanon’s point. Which was that an HHI of $250k+ is more rare in PDX/SEA/SD than it is in Chicago. Maybe not correct, but that’s what he was getting at, not whether a given person with that sort of income would buy this house or that PB house or anything else.”
Yes, that was my point. Thanks anon(tfo).
But I do think it’s worth commenting on everyone’s skepticism that someone with a high income would not buy this house, or others like it in similar city neighborhoods. What is the basis for this assumption? Who do you think buys these houses? Plumbers and firefighters? The price tag answers your question. Why are you so convinced that everyone who has a high income wants to live in the suburbs (or whatever neighborhood you think you would live in if you had a similar income)? This is an assumption, and there’s just no basis for it.
In contrast, here are some facts: I am in this income category. I purchased a similar house in a similar location. I know all of my neighbors. I know they all have a similar income. In fact, from what I can tell most of them make a lot more than me. This is true for the people that were in the neighborhood when I moved in, and it’s true for the houses that have sold in the last year (five within two blocks that I can think of off the top of my head). I would estimate that about a third are lawyers. The rest are a mish mash of doctors, independent business owners, traders, and mid-to-high-level execs at big companies.
The fact that these people buy houses that you would not buy with the same money does not mean they don’t exist.
I would agree with Jen. After having spent a decent amount of time in OC and SD, the people there are much more close minded than they appear. They are very into class-ism or whatever you call it, and are plainly very fake on a day to day basis. They may be more open in terms of race, but that’s about it.
“I remember reading that 750,000 Californians make over $200K per year. That is 2% of the population.”
And that’s about the same percentage that we always arrive at for Chicago-area HH’s with the same income. And I would be surprised if those people are *not* disproportionately in LA/Orange and the Bay Area.
“Newport Beach is a lot larger in population that Kenilworth and Gold Coast.”
Yeah, and it can be because there are larger nominal numbers of high income Californians. It’s all about relative sizes of the relevant popoulations, tho.
“Chicago is way cheaper than LA, SF, Boston, NYC, Seattle, DC, etc.”
I’d question whether Chicago is “way cheaper” than Seattle and prob DC area.
“The fact that these people buy houses that you would not buy with the same money does not mean they don’t exist.”
Don’t let facts get in the ways, alanon.
“That’s absurd. Most of the state makes less than $140,000 a year and yet there are still 35,000,000 people living there.”
That is absurd I agree. I knew people whose parents lived on the same block as Jobs smack in the most expensive part of PA, yet their HH income was obviously less than 140k. The difference was they owned their house since the early 1960s. Few here understand Prop 13’s impact but trust me, you can live in CA for less than 140k a year.
“You may be or may not be familiar with the phrase ‘behind the orange curtain’ but that has been a catchphrase associated with orange county for the past 30 years or so and accurately describes the closed mind, ultra, ultra conservative bent of the area.”
Which is the inverse of the SF phenomenon. The self styled world’s most diverse, liberal and open minded city, whose residents somehow manage to agree on every single important issue. Diversity!
Prop 13 is similar to rent control in a sense that the people buying now, pay a much higher percentage of the tax burden. People who rent market rate units pay a much higher rate than those in rent controlled units who have been there a long time. For a new homeowner in a decent area, $140K is a good starting point in California. I’m not talking Riverside or far away suburbs. Obviously if you are old and have lived in your house for 40 years and are paying very little taxes due to prop 13, you cna make do on very little income, much less than $50,000 even.
“Newport Beach is a lot larger in population that Kenilworth”
Kenilworth is basically just a neighborhood close to the lake with big houses. That is is a stand alone city (village) just skews the numbers.
There is lots of wealth and income in Chicago, though much of it is understated vis a vis the coasts. The reality is Cook County has more millionaires than any other county in the country except LA county, which is significantly more populous.
@ Roma:
The Plaza area would be equivalent of Lincoln Park. A huge shopping area with parks and surrounded by nice houses and condos.
2/2 for around $500k
http://www.trulia.com/property/3015616242-4740-Roanoke-Pkwy-604-Kansas-City-MO-64112
http://www.trulia.com/property/3046143962-400-W-49-2052-Tr-Kansas-City-MO-64112
Some exceed $1 million.
Search any highly desirable urban area in ANY relatively large city and I think you will find condo/house prices pretty consistent with Chicago unless they are way more expensive such as NYC et al.
“I’d question whether Chicago is “way cheaper” than Seattle and prob DC area.”
Seattle is *very* hard to do a direct comparison, I think. If you say “I want a house with X,Y,Z amenities, in a location with A,B,C”, I think you’ll get weird comparisons–going both directions.
DC is a bit easier, and my impression is that “typical” DC housing is meaningfully more expensive, but in the mid-high-end (where your “typical” $250k+ HH buys) Chicago is certainly not “way” cheaper.
Even in LA, people are openly racist and discriminatory all the time. The Bay Area is where people are a little more open minded. The jury is still out on Seattle. I don’t think people are that open minded in much of the metro area. Maybe in small sections of the city downtown, but even then, that’s a small cross section of the population.
“The self styled world’s most diverse, liberal and open minded city, whose residents somehow manage to agree on every single important issue.”
Yeah, whatever it is, we support it, but do not put it in my backyard.
“The reality is Cook County has more millionaires than any other county in the country except LA county, which is significantly more populous.”
And Cook County is significantly more populous than any county in the country except LA County. So, of course it does.
“Oh- and then you have to buy into the partnership. Quite a nice chunk of change right out of the gate (and then pay things like your own health insurance etc.) None of the lawyers I know were in any position to buy an expensive house the year they made partner (of the few that did.)”
Don’t most firms offer a low interest loan for the initial buy in, to be equitized later?
Also, the new home buyer is not a new partners but probably a senior associate on partner track. Just like at an investment bank, no one waits until they make MD to buy the house in Hinsdale.
Just a few thoughts, as a wife of a senior associate, I would be fine with this house, then I can always upgrade later when he has been partner for a few years. I believe that is the same situation the current owner of this property is in. According to chicago blockshopper he was a senior associate when he bought, I imagine he is partner now and moving to a bigger house.
I would much rather live in NY or DC, but associates really only make 15K more in NY and none of our attorney friends there actually buy anything, which we feel fortunate to have been able to do a long time ago.
“And Cook County is significantly more populous than any county in the country except LA County. So, of course it does.”
Sure but the gap is smaller between Cook and the others (unlike the almost 2x step up for LA), especially after the last census. Plus given how much of the county is a de facto war zone, I think its still notable.
“Seattle is *very* hard to do a direct comparison, I think.”
Don’t disagree. I may just be seduced by the views, which are very prominently featured in listings. I think I like this house more than most $1MM in Chicago for example (not that I’ve been in this or other Seattle homes lately).
http://www.redfin.com/WA/Seattle/1628-9th-Ave-W-98119/home/134610
“DC is a bit easier, and my impression is that “typical” DC housing is meaningfully more expensive, but in the mid-high-end (where your “typical” $250k+ HH buys) Chicago is certainly not “way” cheaper.”
I don’t have a good sense of DC, but was just in a friend’s $800K or so house in Alexandria (I did say DC area, which seems fair comparison). Big house, not dump but not recently updated, good school district, easy commute (by car), lot more land than you’d get in either Chicago or close in suburbs (at this price point). Chicago did not seem “way cheaper” compared to that.
“as a wife of a senior associate”
Glad the wife of a senior associate can make do here…
LA county – 9.8 million people, 268,000 households are millionaires
Cook County – 5.2 million people, 171,000 households are millionaires
So Cook County does have more millionaires than LA county on a percentage basis. But what if we looked at it based on the # of people with incomes > $500,000 annually? Would Chicago still be on top. The millionaire stats exclude home equity, and people in CA tend to have higher mortgage balances.
“as a wife of a senior associate”
I was going to say this before, and this is generalizing, impolitic and whatever else, but I really think women love lincoln sq much more then men.
“But what if we looked at it based on the # of people with incomes > $500,000 annually? Would Chicago still be on top.”
Probably not because cost of living, including taxes is higher. Compensation for corporate professionals in LA is typically higher, at least that is my experience with our portfolio.
“The millionaire stats exclude home equity, and people in CA tend to have higher mortgage balances”
Yes because they have more expensive houses to go with their higher mortgage balances.
I think Lincoln Square is overrated and I’m a guy. It’s definitely a trendy place to live, but preferred more by women I know than men.
“Sure but the gap is smaller between Cook and the others (unlike the almost 2x step up for LA)”
Cook is 56.5% of LA
Harris is 63.2% of Cook
Maricopa is 57.1% of Cook
SD and Orange are ~52% of Cook
Harris (Houston) is the only one not very close to the ratio of Cook:LA. And it’s still pretty close.
If the northwest burbs could actually secede from Cook County, this would take with it more millionaires than its’ percentage of the population. Not that the IL legislature would let that happen, but people up there are fed up with Crook County.
I like Lincoln Square but my wife likes it far more. So what are the guy hoods in the city?
“people up there are fed up with Crook County.”
*I* am fed up with the County, and I live in the city. Cook County should be split into three.
“Harris (Houston) is the only one not very close to the ratio of Cook:LA. And it’s still pretty close.”
Not sure your numbers are working. Cook is 5.2 and Harris is 4.1. Close to 80% based on how I learned to do math. The others are tigher as well.
“I believe that is the same situation the current owner of this property is in. According to chicago blockshopper he was a senior associate when he bought, I imagine he is partner now and moving to a bigger house.”
You can believe whatever you want, but I would not conclude that is the case.
BTW, I dislike Blockshopper. It serves no purpose.
HD — you should be pushing more ILTs — I am telling you there is a market.
“I think I like this house more than most $1MM in Chicago for example (not that I’ve been in this or other Seattle homes lately).
http://www.redfin.com/WA/Seattle/1628-9th-Ave-W-98119/home/134610”
That’s like a mile, with hills, from anything other than other houses. And the kitchen is nearly frightful.
But it is a really great view.
Both Chicago and Cook County (aggregated) do suck. Yet secession never happens because of the diseconomies of scale. Ask Palatine.
“Not sure your numbers are working. Cook is 5.2 and Harris is 4.1. Close to 80% based on how I learned to do math. The others are tigher as well.”
You’re right–looked at the wrong column. Oops!
Still only Harris and Maricopa (Phoenix) that are *significantly* closer than Cook:LA.
“You can believe whatever you want, but I would not conclude that is the case.”
There isn’t a “conclusion” necessary, but we’re not here to discuss individuals.
“Oh- and then you have to buy into the partnership. Quite a nice chunk of change right out of the gate (and then pay things like your own health insurance etc.) None of the lawyers I know were in any position to buy an expensive house the year they made partner (of the few that did.)”
Don’t most firms offer a low interest loan for the initial buy in, to be equitized later?
——————————————-
Most firms done’t make junior partners buy into the partnership.
“None of the lawyers I know were in any position to buy an expensive house the year they made partner (of the few that did.)”
Also, any big firm lawyer that can’t afford to buy an $800k house the year they make partner has either: (a) suffered a terrible personal situation such as having to pay for the care of a disabled relative; or (b) has pissed their money away on cars and trips to Aspen.
DZ: I was going to say this before, and this is generalizing, impolitic and whatever else, but I really think women love lincoln sq much more then men.
Oh, I don’t know…I’m a woman and I like men a lot more than I like Lincoln Square. 🙂
“That’s like a mile, with hills, from anything other than other houses. And the kitchen is nearly frightful.”
Not *that* far from the Queen Anne stuff but still hilly I think. Tis true I don’t like to walk too far though. Maybe this one:
http://www.redfin.com/WA/Seattle/411-Prospect-St-98109/home/133395
I lived on Capitol Hill DC for 15 years, and in Fairfax County VA for 15 years before I moved to WI, and bought a weekend place in Chicago. Chicago is generally way cheaper than DC area for housing. There are course exceptions. Prince Georges and the outer Maryland suburbs maybe cheaper than Chicago city
You should see the California Contemporary in Annandale (Fairfax County) built in 1972, that we sold for $505,000 in 2007 as the market was declining. It still had a stove that was the brown equivalent of avocado green, and the original wood pressed cabinets, and peeling tile on the floor, Cheaply built. Granted though it was in a desirable subdivision but only for the limited number of people in NoVA who didn’t want colonials or mini-mansions.
We did put some money in other parts of the house, but most of it went to sending our child to a unique private school, http://www.wis.edu.
“pissed their money away on cars and trips to Aspen.”
Sounds like fun! Young, stable career, the rest will come anyway when you are too old to enjoy the cars and trip to Aspen. Maybe that’s the guy who has it right.
Most junior partners I know make salaries commensurate with associates at NY ibanks. Good money, but it goes fast. Kind of like the U of C guy who complained 300k didn’t make him rich.
Steve, The highest end homes in Chicago are much higher than those in DC area. DC is a pseudo-city anyway.
“Not *that* far from the Queen Anne stuff but still hilly I think. ”
forgot how small the blocks are; half a mile.
You posted the prospect house before; I don’t like that kitchen, either, but it at least as cabinets I can be sure are asbestos-free.
Sorry, hit submit before: that sort of money doesn’t do squat for you in Aspen.
“Oh, I don’t know…I’m a woman and I like men a lot more than I like Lincoln Square.”
Good to know that we beat out Lincoln Square. Although I’m sure there are a few instances where DZ’s statement is true.
“Good to know that we beat out Lincoln Square. Although I’m sure there are a few instances where DZ’s statement is true.”
Could be a comment on how little Madeline likes lincoln square.
“Could be a comment on how little Madeline likes lincoln square.”
Oooh…touché.
This house is NOT a steal. Way too much train noise. Poor schools, that is a factor for most people even if it’s just for resale value. I would look for a similar house just south of Montrose in Coonley district. For 800k one can do a lot better, imo. I think this sells for high 600’s.
but what self respecting lawyer wouldn’t want to spend all their income on a huge house with high maintenance costs, utility bills and a room so you don’t have to look at your wife?
vacations in aspen? cars? lame!
“I think the original argument was that a buyer could get a better home in a better neighborhood in Seattle, Portland, and San Diego than in Chicago, with the additional implication that Chicago was not as sophisticated as these cities.”
San Francisco is less sophisticated than Chicago, by far. It’s far smaller, there are less jobs, there are FAR LESS organized cultural institutions, the bay breaks the metro area up, whereas Chicago is larger and connected without bridges, etc. San Francisco has to one of the most isolated places in America, surrrounded by water on 3 sides, 7 mi x 7 mi. puny…..a non-diverse population of Chinese, gays and yuppies only. hardly anybody raising kids there, mostly transplants move there bringing their “hick” loser couldn’t-cut-it-at-home/nobody-understands-me anger……very unsophisticated, in my book. The Chinese there buying up all the property must be bewildered at all the lost souls, losers, and oddballs they see in SF, they must think America is ripe for take-over, and they are buying up the property there.
Jen: bashing Orange County is classic. Plastic surgery may be bad, but is it worse than having multiple rings in your nose, earlobe stretchers, tattoos, acne, lousy hair, and no body posture?
“I would look for a similar house just south of Montrose in Coonley district. For 800k one can do a lot better, imo.”
Best active comp, in Coonley:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2119-W-Belle-Plaine-Ave-60618/home/13390563
Subject house is *much* nicer, I think, and has the extra land.
“Could be a comment on how little Madeline likes lincoln square.”
Can’t be. I’ve heard all women love lincoln square, absolutely.
“For 800k one can do a lot better, imo.”
What’s the house that’s a lot better? Can I get similar level of finishes etc but in Coonley (assuming the neighborhood component of Coonley is or is about to be good)?
“San Francisco has to one of the most isolated places in America, surrrounded by water on 3 sides, 7 mi x 7 mi. puny”
Manhattan’s surrounded on, well, all sides by water, so is it the only major place *more* isolated than EsEff?
“bashing Orange County is classic. Plastic surgery may be bad, but is it worse than having multiple rings in your nose, earlobe stretchers, tattoos, acne, lousy hair, and no body posture?”
Ah, the OC punk/hardcore scene! Yeah, another strike against OC.
That was funny Madeline and people were giving me English lessons : )
No, Manhattan is far more accessible than is SF to other land masses: boroughs, NJ, LI, CT, etc. SF is surrounded by a small peninsula that’s mostly mountainous (Marin) and unpopulated, the Pacific Ocean, and a formidable/wide bay to the east. No comparison to NYC.
OC has far better looking women/men than does SF and Chicago, if Jen is bashing that, it makes us all wonder what she looks like!! (and it’s obvious jealousy and couldn’t-cut-it syndrome because not many people leave OC for Chicago). Basically, you get losers who can’t cut it, then they recede into “intellectual” snobbery/supremacism as the only outlet to make themselves feel better. It’s juvenile.
“Manhattan’s surrounded on, well, all sides by water, so is it the only major place *more* isolated than EsEff?
“bashing Orange County is classic. Plastic surgery may be bad, but is it worse than having multiple rings in your nose, earlobe stretchers, tattoos, acne, lousy hair, and no body posture?”
Ah, the OC punk/hardcore scene! Yeah, another strike against OC.”
“Basically, you get losers who can’t cut it, then they recede into “intellectual” snobbery/supremacism as the only outlet to make themselves feel better. It’s juvenile.”
Funny!!
anybody else think Clio is actually Chaz Walters?
he sounds so much like this profiled guy from a decade or so back:
http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/agent-provacateur/Content?oid=893002
“anybody else think Clio is actually Chaz Walters?
he sounds so much like this profiled guy from a decade or so back:”
This might be funnier!
Anon- why do you think this house is *much* nicer than the Belle Plaine house that has an extra bedroom, which is in a *much* better school zone, with *much* less train noise directly across the street. You can have your extra land. I’ll take the Belle Plaine house thank you very much. Here’s another one for you….
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2138-W-Belle-Plaine-Ave-60618/home/13390571
Dan-
did you actually read my post? I think OC is one of the most stunning places on earth and yes it has the people to match the landscape for sure. It is just not where I choose to make my home anymore and a big reason for that is the lack of culture. It is not insulting to the people there, it is just not for me at this time in life. I am a city girl at heart, but still hit the waves 5 or more times a year when I get back there. So, not to be ‘juvenile’ but my looks still very much reflect the oc asthestic.
ugh back to work…i can’t believe I am defending my looks on cribchatter 🙂
Basically, you get losers who can’t cut it, then they recede into “intellectual” snobbery/supremacism as the only outlet to make themselves feel better. It’s juvenile.
I read it , scrolled up one more time to check the author, took a bong hit, sat back down, re-read it, another bong hit…
Beyond funny!
Ah…there are far fewer attorneys working in big firms nowadays anyway…..ask our last two hires, one of which never received an offer (but was a summer assoc), and the other of which used to work in biglaw (and works in teh office next to mine). I make more than they do now. How times have changed.
“#alanon on April 6th, 2011 at 9:53 am
“None of the lawyers I know were in any position to buy an expensive house the year they made partner (of the few that did.)”
Also, any big firm lawyer that can’t afford to buy an $800k house the year they make partner has either: (a) suffered a terrible personal situation such as having to pay for the care of a disabled relative; or (b) has pissed their money away on cars and trips to Aspen.”
“but still hit the waves 5 or more times a year”
Jen, well now someone here has you pictured as a Reef girl!
“but my looks still very much reflect the oc asthestic.”
nice!!!
I wanted to say a few words about McPherson elementary, as someone who has toured the school and met the principal. Suggestions that dismiss this school out-right are not well-founded. You owe it to yourself to see the school first-hand. After taking a look, we are strongly considering the school when our kids reach enrollment age.
The principal is very welcoming and hard-working, and there is an active parent group. The school definitely needs to work harder in the PR department. The building had a major addition and renovation in the late 90’s, which added room for labs, a new gym/cafeteria. It has a well-equipped fitness center and computer labs. Students with autism, speech, and other needs seem to get a lot of attention. The school’s test scores are not great, but that’s not directly indicative of my/your kid’s education or scores, and it’s to be expected in a school this socially and economically diverse. Plus, the upper grades offer an IB curriculum.
There are some downsides. That large addition also gave the school more capacity to draw kids, thereby drawing from surrounding lower-income areas with less stellar schools. That’s a worthy goal, but it makes for a large school and pulls test scores down if those students are behind academically. It is also unfortunate that the school doesn’t seem to have enough faculty to take full advantage of their huge auditorium or offer a full complement of athletic programs.
In Chicago magazine’s list of 500 CPS schools, it ranked 107 (Nettlehorst=65, Chappell and Waters in the 150’s). Those aren’t stellar rankings, but they give weight to my point.
Take a current look and judge for yourself.
I need an opinion from the wonderful people of cribchatter. Thoughts on this house….
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Wilmette/124-16th-St-60091/home/13773328
It just hit the market today.
my sister used to live by that wilmette house. good location for walking to stuff as long as your legs arent too stubby
Steve- is this house on 6th or 16th st, seems to be some discrepancy with the address and the map. 6th st. would be a steal.
That Wilmette house really isn’t very big. Not that impressed by it. The area is pretty good though, and it’s close to the lake. Being that close to the football stadium isn’t that much of a big deal because it only seats like 38,000 and doesn’t even sell out each of the 6 home games. The fact that it sold 3 times in the last 6 years is kind of a red flag.
That area makes me think of Evanston, but it’s north of Isabella, so it’s Wilmette with NT schools. But it’s more like Evanston. Go NU!
Looks like it is on 16th and not 6th, so the redfin map is not accurate.
It is on the small side, especially the bedrooms–but not sure how big of a deal that would be. It does have HD’s favorite item–no bathrooms on the main floor.
It’s come to be expected that there are few deals, and therefore, the market is SLOW AS HELL.
“why do you think this house is *much* nicer than the Belle Plaine house”
Kitchen, general fixturing, exterior appearance, modernized first floor layout. Basically, I’m saying that, picking and choosing, I’d take this house, with the dormers and rear extension square footage of the BP house, on a lot and a half, on BP. And I’d like to pay tree-fitty for it.
I don’t think it’s true that there are “far fewer attorneys” working at big firms now. Even in the bloodbath of 2009, the top tier firms cut between 0 and 25%. Even those that made substantial cuts then added to the attorney pool over the next two years through recruiting. The attorney levels today are not that far off from the 2008 peak, and big firms seem to be doing fine, given bonus levels and the spring bonus.
Of course beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, but I for one don’t find any of the OC house wives beautiful, just generic fake blonds and a few of them need to shed a good 20 pounds.
http://thatssofetch.com/category/real-housewives-of-orange-county/
Are you all really so sure that McPherson school is all that “bad?” It’s constantly advertising various programs, pre-school classes, etc. in an attempt to lure the kids whose ‘rents pay bigbux for houses in LS. Hey, a decade ago “nobody” sent their kids to Nettlehorst either.
What’s really disappointing about the property at hand is that they took a pretty “country-style” house and turned it into yet another generic urban yuppie mostrosity. I’ve seen similar homes updated with “country-style” kitchens & baths, etc. which were much more in keeping with the general appearance.
“What’s really disappointing about the property at hand is that they took a pretty “country-style” house and turned it into yet another generic urban yuppie mostrosity. I’ve seen similar homes updated with “country-style” kitchens & baths, etc. which were much more in keeping with the general appearance.”
Dude, move to Carbondale or Kentucky or something. Sheesh.
Well, California ain’t what it once was. Like most of the West Coast it peaked probably some time in the 1960’s when the SoCa lifestyle was legendary and known all over the world for being a paradise. http://www.tias.com/stores/dougcodi/pictures/19898a.jpg
The Valley Girl era was probably its last hurrah, LOL Now the state is a blue hell and third world dumping ground.
“Of course beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, but I for one don’t find any of the OC house wives beautiful, just generic fake blonds and a few of them need to shed a good 20 pounds.”
PS miumiu: 3 out of 5 in that OC pic/link have full-blown horse faces.
“I go back several times a year and love to visit, but return thankfully to a city that stimulates my intellect outside the latest plastic surgery procedures”
Plastic surgery can do wonders for people. More importantly, it is an indication that these people actually care about their appearance with is INCREDIBLY important. It is depressing seeing all the fat and ugly people around. You don’t have to be born with a stunning face/figure, but you have to have the motivation and discipline to look the best that you can. I applaud the people of LA for being so good looking and fit. They ARE awesome and I can’t wait to go back. I am actually thinking of buying an in-town in West Hollywood (and selling my place here) – that is how much better LA is!!!!
Clio why don’t you move to LA? I am sure us regulars here on CC could put together a fundraiser to help subsidize your plane ticket.
No – I didn’t mover there permanently – just for weekends but I will gladly take you up on the offer to subsidize my plane ticket (oh, by the way, I would like to fly first class or business class and don’t have any miles).
Clio, no one is born fat. While not everyone has the model built, getting obese is a function of poor eating habits and life style. Plastic surgery in moderation can do wonders, but many of people who routinely do procedures, end up looking horrendous and abnormal.
As for people in LA, honestly people have different taste, in fact, many people find the Pamela Anderson look unattractive and prefer more natural looking people. I applaud anyone who works to improve themselves, but choosing he path of least resistance, i.e., going under the knife to fix years of poor eating habits, excessive sun exposure and so on is not something that particularly impresses me.
miumiu, I absolutely agree with you but I also respect those who at least make the effort and TRY to look good. You don’t live in the suburbs (or do you). It is very depressing seeing all of these fat fat ugly lazy slow people out here. It makes me want to vomit!!!!
“Clio, no one is born fat. While not everyone has the model built, getting obese is a function of poor eating habits and life style. ”
Some babies definitely weight more than others. If you think genes don’t have anything to do with it I have a bridge to sell you.
As an example it is considerably harder for me to get above 185 vs getting below 175. Getting below 175 requires diet & exercise–not a breeze but totally doable (done it frequently before).
Getting above 185 would require me not moving all day eating whey protein shakes and even then it might not be possible (never done it before).
“As an example it is considerably harder for me to get above 185 vs getting below 175. Getting below 175 requires diet & exercise–not a breeze but totally doable (done it frequently before).
Getting above 185 would require me not moving all day eating whey protein shakes and even then it might not be possible (never done it before).”
I used to have this problem. Then I reached a certain age and the problem reversed itself.
“I used to have this problem. Then I reached a certain age and the problem reversed itself.”
That’s what my pa keeps warning me but to be honest he’s never been big and neither have ma. I have noticed a slow upcreep in equilibrium weight but its maybe 1-2lb/year.
“I used to have this problem. Then I reached a certain age and the problem reversed itself.”
You just aren’t trying hard enough.
Bob – that is so ridiculous. Do yourself a favor and eat well and exercise frequently. You will be surprised how fast your metabolism slows once you reach 35-40. Add that to increased stressors (increased cortisol), and normal wear and tear (aging process) and you will soon find yourself to be one very ugly man.
“You just aren’t trying hard enough.”
It’s weird. I think I’m in as good of shape as I’ve ever been. Work out or ride my bike 6-7 days a week. But all of a sudden the weight just came and stayed. Pretty sure it’s the beer. Pretty sure I’m not giving that up.
^^^^^^^^^
Should clarify: I’m not fat. But I did go from hipster skinny to early-middle-aged man skinny with no change in diet or activity level.
“Do yourself a favor and eat well and exercise frequently.”
I do exercise but will pick up the frequency. For me the gym is about looking better, feeling more energized and being healthier. It really has little to no impact on my weight. I have already cut out the worst of my diet (ie: McDs) but I am one to make changes slowly. Anything drastic will likely be reversed in time.
ah LA… “what do you do for a living”, “what kind of car do you drive”, “I’m a producer but can you pick up the check”
Awful place!
McD’s has pretty good salads.
I can’t access youtube at work, so sorry this is late.
I wanted to give a shout out to everyone who lives in and loves Chicago and send you a link to Kanye’s “Homecoming” video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ488QrqGE4
Love,
Milkster
Thanks for the link Milkster. I hadn’t seen that video before. Chicago looks great in it. Chicago also is a standout back drop in the new movie Source Code.
GM- My son attended McPherson from Pre-K and K and he had a great experience there-so I have to agree with you. I’m very much hoping the TBPK will run this year so his little sister can go there too. So speaking directly to people who might actually purchase this house- there are good public and private options in this neighborhood. (but I still think this house is overpriced)
“GM on April 6th, 2011 at 11:30 am
I wanted to say a few words about McPherson elementary, as someone who has toured the school and met the principal. Suggestions that dismiss this school out-right are not well-founded.”
“Add that to increased stressors (increased cortisol), and normal wear and tear (aging process) and you will soon find yourself to be one very ugly man.”
quote: at 50, everyone has the face they deserve
““I used to have this problem. Then I reached a certain age and the problem reversed itself.”
You just aren’t trying hard enough.”
Try 3 enchiladas, rice & beans, and 3 beers every night….that’ll do it. Chipotle’s veggie burrito has 1,110 calories (I was quite ticked to find that out, I was eating them for lunch).
Bob while genes play a role. I find the excuse of fat people that it is all genetic kind of lame. How come the same gene pool only a few generations ago was not this obese? Or why aren’t the Asian, African and European ancestors of these folks no where nearly as overweight. I have never met a fat person who regularly exercises and eats healthy. Yes, there are certainly few individual with medical conditions that has contributed to their weight issues, but I think the genetic and medical condition is grossly misused as an excuse.
Clio, I agree with your comment that it is good to at least make an effort. I for one cannot understand people who have money and time and still look like bums.
As for not working out and remaining slim, that does not still mean that you are healthy. There are many slim people who are quite unhealthy. We are animals after all and it is not natural for us to have completely sedentary life styles. I am of the belief that if you mess with nature, it messes right back at you.
“I for one cannot understand people who have money and time and still look like bums.”
So your saying my worn out t-shirt, shorts, and flip flop look isn’t going to get me into bed with you, damn!
lol Ze, you are in the land of hottest women on earth, I am not worried about you getting laid : )
ROFLMAO… thanks for taking that well…
Does 97th percentile at birth count as being born fat?
To me it sounds adorably chubby, but man the poor mom must have had a great time giving birth to that.
C-section. Learnt my lesson first time around!
My husband was being considered for a job out near Coto de Caza (where Real Housewives of OC is filmed), I was terrified I wouldn’t be able to keep up with the plastics. Can’t say I was too sad when he didn’t get it.
Well, c-section is a major surgery so not easy either. There are times I wish I were born a man : )
As for plastics, I am sure your husband appreciates his wonderful wife that raises his kids and makes him happy. My husband for one hates the LA look and in fact, told me he would divorce me if I ever got into doing plastic surgeries…lol
World is a great place, there are the plastics and men who love them and there are women who believe in aging naturally and there are men who love those. So in the end, hopefully we will all find someone we are happy with.
Actually I once dated a surgeon who was originally from LA though at the time he was doing his residency in Chicago. Later on he went to become a plastic surgeon. He told me he would never seriously consider a woman who had done plastic surgery. I thought that was pretty interesting. But of course people change so I am curious whom he ended up with after all : )
“Try 3 enchiladas, rice & beans, and 3 beers every night….that’ll do it. Chipotle’s veggie burrito has 1,110 calories (I was quite ticked to find that out, I was eating them for lunch).”
If you eat Mexican food at home and don’t add to much cheese or sour cream, it’s not that fattening. Maybe you could get a Mexican girlfriend who will cook for you?
Good one, Milkster.
When I was in Budapest, the standard line was “You know, the best way to learn Hungarian is in bed!” I guess you could apply that to any culture! LOL.
I might add that Dan seems to be quite the ethnic food bon vivant lately!
Bob, 7 minute bike ride to Wrigley if your butt doesn’t slow me down!
6 chips = 1 tortilla
There are 101 calories in 1 medium Tortilla.
Therefore, just eating 1/2 of basket of chips is 500 calories minimum before one starts the meal, then on top of that you add 3 enchiladas (made with more tortillas) with meat & melted cheese, add next rice and beans made with lard, more chips, sauces, and 3 beers?
Dan:
If you want a lot of calories of prepared food at an awesome price check out El Tradicion by the Belmont stop. Daily lunch special M-F 11-3 that includes a lot of tortilla chips, a steak burrito, rice, beans & a salad and drink for $5.99.
Normally I can’t even finish the dang thing which means it’s probably over 2200 calories. It’s an unemployment special where if you’re only going to eat one meal a day that’ll fit the bill. You can also get it to go or get a to go box.
“Best active comp, in Coonley:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2119-W-Belle-Plaine-Ave-60618/home/13390563
Subject house is *much* nicer, I think, and has the extra land.”
And that one is under contract already.
Here are two more comps for Lincoln Sq:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5151-N-Claremont-Ave-60625/home/13403758
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2220-W-Winnemac-Ave-60625/home/13403887
They are a bit above lawrence (not 150K above though!) they sold for significantly lower than this one and are near winnemac park.