It’s Lincoln Park Week on Crib Chatter
This week, all the posts will be about Lincoln Park because . . . why not?
The real estate is hopping in the most prestigious neighborhood in the city, including a LOT of new construction, mostly of multi-million dollar single family homes.
Is Lincoln Park simply becoming the playground of the mega-rich?
Can middle class buyers even live there anymore?
Will it lose its vintage charm as the old homes are torn down for the new, limestone homes?
While it’s obvious that middle class buyers (or dual income middle class couples) are forever priced out owning a single family home in Lincoln Park, they can certainly afford a nice range of 1-2 bedroom condos for 175-250k; even in the nicer east part of LP. Try to do that in a neighborhood of similar caliber in Los Angeles or even New York!
Middle class needs to accept the reality and adjusting expectations to live within their means. It’s certainly easier if the couple doesn’t have — or doesn’t intend to have — kids, but even if they did it would still beat the mental, physical, and environmental toll of the horrendous commute from suburbs just so the kiddies can have a huge yard, big bedrooms, and better public schools that you still end up indirectly paying for in property taxes.
If one is making a decent wage and wants to live in Lincoln Park, they have options. I don’t like that it’s becoming a playground for the 1%, as such over-gentrification usually kills unique elements that make these neighborhoods attractive in the first place (Wicker Park, West Loop, and soon to be Andersonville & Logan if this bubble keeps inflating). But it’s also growth that creates a higher property tax draw that the city desperately needs.
I thought LP was getting eclipsed by “bucktown” and all the “on-trend” retail? Marc Jacobs on Damen is closed.
Speaking of LA, this might be the greatest listing ever:
https://www.redfin.com/CA/Santa-Monica/1040-4th-St-90403/unit-104/home/6780729
“I thought LP was getting eclipsed by “bucktown”
https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20151027/bucktown/as-bucktown-prices-surge-past-lincoln-park-are-luxury-condos-new-norm
“Second to North Center and just ahead of Lincoln Park, Bucktown has the second-highest median home sale prices in the city, based on a Redfin report for a three-month period ending Sept. 31”
” a three-month period ending Sept. 31″
???
I know it’s quoted correctly.
“and better public schools that you still end up indirectly paying for in property taxes”
That sort of assumes that the choice is between the city publics and the suburban publics. For a lot of city dwellers, the choice is city private vs. suburban public. Those New Trier taxes are certainly sky high, but they’re a fraction of tuition for two kids at L/P/L/B.
“Those New Trier taxes are certainly sky high, but they’re a fraction of tuition for two kids”
I believe that you should say “the *incremental* amount of those taxes are a fraction”, as a “properly” assessed median-ish larger SFH (ie, what we’re comparing an LP SFH to) will have taxes that belie the “a fraction” statement (tho, of course, it’s *always* a fraction, as if the taxes were $200,000 as to $60k in tuition, that is 10/3s of the tuition).
Of course, the *increment* of NT taxes over a LP SFH is certainly going to be perhaps 2/3 of *one* kid’s tuition, and then 1/3 (or less) of tuition for 2.
lmao anon that listing…
“environmental toll of the horrendous commute from suburbs just so the kiddies can have a huge yard, big bedrooms, and better public schools that you still end up indirectly paying for in property taxes.”
Taking a bus/El from LP is not better, I will even say worse than taking a metra train from the burbs. If you live near Metra Station, your commute is not bad at all. It is just me, by backyard and a nice quite street is a lot more valuable than living in LP, with its never ending traffic in all directions.
The middle class is priced out – but that’s the simple supply and demand. Everything has its target market.
“Middle class needs to accept the reality and adjusting expectations to live within their means. It’s certainly easier if the couple doesn’t have — or doesn’t intend to have — kids, but even if they did it would still beat the mental, physical, and environmental toll of the horrendous commute from suburbs just so the kiddies can have a huge yard, big bedrooms, and better public schools that you still end up indirectly paying for in property taxes. ”
Wow, I can’t tell if this is tongue in cheek or not. You’ve basically said that the middle class needs to live within their means (ie the means decided by the meager stagnating paycheck of the corporate overlords); that the suburban commute is soul numbing (not everyone does the commute, there are plenty of jobs in the suburbs!); and Yards, bedrooms and better schools are HUGE positives for the suburbs; the point about having children, you know, the continuation of the human race….or from a selfish perspective, more workers to pay your social security and medicare.
“The middle class is priced out – but that’s the simple supply and demand. ”
The traditional middle class has not been priced out, it’s being decimated, and it simply doesn’t exist in many places any more. The distribution of wealth favors the wealthy, and that is reflected in LP housing prices.
There have always been enclaves for wealthy people. There are plenty of affordable options in Chicago, even for those with large families. So what if people are priced out of Lincoln Park? I can’t afford a single family home in LP. It doesn’t bother me.
If middle class people really want to live in LP, they can go with a condo.
“I can’t afford a single family home in LP”
I am an artist with 6 children, I *deserve* to live in Manhattan south of 96th, and to summer in the Hamptons. Anything less is an example of the tyranny of the 1%!!
I can’t afford things, where is the government so I can?
“While it’s obvious that middle class buyers (or dual income middle class couples) are forever priced out owning a single family home in Lincoln Park, they can certainly afford a nice range of 1-2 bedroom condos for 175-250k”
Middle class is not a clearly defined term. It encompasses a huge range and before you say it, no it does not mean earning 50K a year per household. At least to most people who hear it. LP is one of the top neighborhood in Chicago, arguably the best midwestern city in US. It is amazing that still lower dual income families who buy in the 175-250k range can afford it.
“Middle class … it does not mean earning 50K a year per household. At least to most people who hear it.”
Sheesh, were you *trying* to show how detached you are from “typical” Americans?
$50,000 household income is above the 45th percentile. So, your view is that the ‘average” (I prefer ‘typical’) US household is poor (or lower class). Sure, you’ll say “no no, lower middle class”, but by sticking that ‘middle’ in there, you’d be acknowledging that they are “middle class” (NB: They are) contrary to your initial assertion.
“I am an artist with 6 children, I *deserve* to live in Manhattan south of 96th, and to summer in the Hamptons. Anything less is an example of the tyranny of the 1%!!
What do an artist and a 12” pizza have in common? Neither can feed a family of four!
I don’t think one can live comfortably on $50,000 a year. I was making that a few years back and it was very difficult to afford a middle class lifestyle. I didn’t feel middle class until I was making over $75,000. If I was making my current salary and had a kid, I would feel dirt poor.
$50,000 for a dual-income household income is dirt poor. $50,000 for one person is a big struggle, but you aren’t dirt poor.
“I can’t afford things, where is the government so I can?”
If the government doesn’t step in to fix the problem, who will?
“$50,000 for a dual-income household income is dirt poor.”
You do realize that the majority of metro Chicago spends less on housing that you, right? As does the majority of the country.
$50k ain’t anyone’s (this side of Timbuk3) idea of big bucks, but it is not ‘dirt poor’.
How much do they spend on housing? I spend $1500 a month, including tax, assessments, and mortgage. I don’t know how much cheaper I could go and still live in a reasonably nice neighborhood.
“live in a reasonably nice neighborhood”
That’s the issue, isn’t it.
This place is a decent for example:
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Berwyn/1415-Clarence-Ave-60402/home/13244446
Is Berwyn “reasonably nice”? For the typical person, yes. For you, no. But that 4 bed 2.5 bath SFH would cost less that your monthly nut, and would be “affordable” on a $50k income, and would house a family with 4 kids reasonably ok.
And that’s a lot closer to average, and (imo) a reasonable “middle class” housing option, albeit in the bottom 1/3 of ‘middle class’.
I don’t want to argue about the semantics, but the “middle class” in the sense of those who are in the 50th percentile do not reside in the top neighborhoods of any city.
That said, I disagree that “$50,000 for a dual-income household income is dirt poor.”
I was making around 25K in grad school and I still had a comfortable life. Dirt poor is going to bed hungry assuming one has a bed. Not being able to take European vacations or having to wear gap as opposed to Prada, does not make one poor, let alone dirt poor.
“I don’t want to argue about the semantics”
Ok, parse your own statement then. I will fully credit any reasonable interpretation of the following full quote
“Middle class is not a clearly defined term. It encompasses a huge range and before you say it, no it does not mean earning 50K a year per household. At least to most people who hear it.”
That, to me, *clearly* reads as an assertion that a $50k HHI is NOT middle class, at least to most people.
Or by “not argue the semantics”, did you mean something other than “I disagree with your interpretation of what I wrote”?
Earning $50k was difficult in that I had to ask my parents for help when I needed expensive surgery for my dog (she had a cancerous tumor). I went for two years without a real vacation. I didn’t buy new pants for a year. I felt immense anxiety when my car had issues because I felt like I would never be able to afford a new car. If I didn’t have financial help from family, I would probably be in credit card debt because of the dog’s surgery.
Given that, I can’t imagine having to support a second person on that salary. I don’t think I would ever be able to go out and do anything or go anywhere.
“Or by “not argue the semantics”, did you mean something other than “I disagree with your interpretation of what I wrote”?”
What I meant is that I don’t want to argue whether a 50K income is middle class or not as I am not sure my interpretation of the term is correct or even a correct (in the sense of agreed upon) exists. I don’t care about the terminology, but rather if you are not in the top income brackets, it is not logical to expect to live in the top city hoods.
Is it clear now? 🙂
” it is not logical to expect to live in the top city hoods”
So, the quoted language was surplusage, and you retract it.
Got it.
I’ll tell you this: “most” Americans would consider a $50,000 HHI to be “middle class”.
Would I be remotely comfortable living in Chicago on $50k? Nope. But that doesn’t make it not a “middle class” income.
Anon, that Santa Monica listing reads like it was written by the staff of The Onion…Hilarious.
Lincoln Park has become a neighborhood for the very rich. If you want to buy a single family house that is. There is nothing wrong with that. Good for them. Where in some countries rich people are cursed. Here we celebrate success and look up to successful people as examples that others can emulate.
I can’t afford to live in Lincoln Park but I can afford to live in Norwood Park. For that, I should be grateful.
Since we are talking about income and percentile ranges, check out this interesting website. You simply enter your income and you can find out what percentile rank you are: http://www.whatsmypercent.com/
One caveat; the data is from 2010.
By the way the median wage according to the Social Security Administration is $28,000 for 2014. That is horrible. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html
The Social Security website/data set is interesting to fiddle around with too.
nimish, where do you live? I live in long grove sometimes, park ridge sometimes and orland park the rest of the time.
50K in Chicago is straight up brutal IMO. At least if you feel compelled to live in the GZ.
Question: when the IRS (or whatever govt entity that tracks this info) releases info on household income, is this: 1. gross, AGI, or taxable income, and 2. doesn’t it include retirees?
Say my 77-year old mother makes $50K with SS and pensions. She owns outright her 4BR house and has a household of 1 – herself. Contrast that to my family of 4 – mortgage, child care, food and clothing for 4, etc., etc. Thankfully, we’ve paid off our student loans. We also need to be saving from our gross for retirement and kids’ college. $50K would feel much different for us than my mom.
And then, of course, middle class varies by area. Per the BLS, the average annual salary in Chicago was about $50K (per earner, so $100K for dual-earner households) vs. say, $37K in Sioux City and $76K in Silicon Valley.
Not to mention that I assume all income reported by the govt excludes under-the-table income. And I’m not talking about illegal immigrants, I’m talking about people who own their own business and likely don’t declare all of their income.
I don’t know what the 50th percentile for income in Chicago is, but if you ignore retirees and under 18s (or under 22, if you’d like), I think it would be north of $50K.
It’s AGI iirc. ss is sometimes taxable, pensions usually are taxable at the federal level. property taxes are lower for seniors with the senior exemption and senior freeze.
living off $50k becomes an issue when younger families pay for housing, health insurance and child care, along with student loans and other debt.
older residents with frozen taxes, or exemptions, along with a lower housing cost basis, Medicare, social security and lower tax brackets live quite well. my generation can only pray for inflation where my cost basis of my home is you know, 5x what I paid years ago. but considering ss had no COLA increase this year, absent an inflationary black swan, it’s not favorable.
“I don’t want to argue about the semantics, but the “middle class” in the sense of those who are in the 50th percentile do not reside in the top neighborhoods of any city.”
That’s the beauty of Chicago. Of COURSE you can. I personally know someone who was a legal secretary making $40,000 a year and living just fine in a very small 1-bedroom in the heart of Lincoln Park. She did not have a car (didn’t need one) and managed to even save money into her 401k. Gasp.
Now, is a family of 4 living in Lincoln Park on $40,000 a year? No. Probably not.
But until the last 10-15 years, plenty of “middle class” people were buying townhouses and renting nice apartments in Lincoln Park, Lakeview and the other “top” neighborhoods.
“You do realize that the majority of metro Chicago spends less on housing that you, right? As does the majority of the country.”
I was looking at some housing in Springfield that was your run of the mill “middle class” housing and because mortgage rates are so low the monthly payment was just $400.
“when the IRS (or whatever govt entity that tracks this info) releases info on household income, is this: 1. gross, AGI, or taxable income, and 2. doesn’t it include retirees?”
This is just one example of lack of clarity on this topic. Income comparisons should also be by capita for anything resembling an apples-to-apples argument. Without specifics, throwing income numbers around to determine affordability of housing is meaningless. Even in that “what’s my percentage” website that Nimesh gave, it does not specify whether “income” is for household or for each person. I have no children, so I am able to live a far more luxurious lifestyle than my colleagues with kids who make exactly the same money. On the other hand, my husband and I have a long distance marriage, living in different states, so we have to maintain two residences, giving us a higher living cost than most married couples who live together. On the other hand, we own both our homes outright, so the income needed to sustain our lifestyle is far less than it would have to be for someone who bought our places if we sold next month, if they had to get a conventional mortgage. On the other hand, my condo in the Gold Coast has HOA dues so high it resembles mortgage payments. Comparing just selling prices of condos often neglects this significant expense factor. On the other hand, I don’t maintain a car (because I don’t need one)which saves me thousands of dollars a year over my neighbors who keep one parked in their $200/month space just for joy rides and Costco runs. Oh – and how about investment income that is not liquidated, but gets reinvested? Does that count as “income”? How about people whose elderly parents have millions bequeathed to them, so they don’t have to save a penny for their own retirement? Etc etc. Depending on what factors are included in the equation (especially whether my “income” includes both mine and my husband’s), the percentile I belong to in income class differs by 15%, and the affordability quotient for a house of a particular price as correlated to “income” is even more across the board. As I said, the numbers are useless bandied about without the specifics.
Jenny, I’m certainly middle class but I don’t feel like I’m struggling one bit. I’m able to save 50-60% of my net income and my living costs are under $600 in Andersonville by renting with a good friend. 50k doesn’t feel like a lot to you because of lifestyle inflation. $1500/month? I wouldn’t spend that much even if I were splitting the cost with my gf, who makes $90k/year. Dog surgery? I love dogs but that’s a cost risk you took on by owning a dog. I’m not judging or saying you have no right to complain about past hardships, I’m just saying your struggle to survive on 50k was self inflicted. People get by and manage to save making a lot less than we do.
Homedelete – Putting aside my personal feelings and negative generalizations about suburban commuting — I’m saying that the middle class needs to accept the reality of what they’re given and adjust their expectations accordingly. That means a strong unlikely-hood of ever owning a single family residence in 60614/57 zip codes. If they want more, then risks need to be taken (higher education, student loan debt) that can potentially lead to higher earning potential. I know…it’s easier said than done!
“The traditional middle class has not been priced out, it’s being decimated, and it simply doesn’t exist in many places any more. The distribution of wealth favors the wealthy, and that is reflected in LP housing prices.”
I could not agree more with that statement. It’s starting to happen in Andersonville too; practically every block has luxury SFH’s being built or dark brick 4-flats. It’s turning into the Truman Show. What’s a prospective homebuyer like myself to do? Overpay by buying in a stable/appreciating neighborhood, or take a chance on the Albany Parks/Avondales in hopes that this massive gentrification keeps pushing the middle/lower class outward, increasing property values & rents in those areas?
I would say that it’s not really a middle class lifestyle if you have a roommate. There’s nothing wrong with having a roommate and it’s great that you’re able to save so much. You sound much more responsible than the average person. I wouldn’t say that’s living a middle class lifestyle though. I could get a roommate now and would end up feeling rich, but the stress of having to live with someone who isn’t a boyfriend would be too much for me. You and I have sacrificed different things – you sacrificed living alone and I sacrificed niceties that come with have more disposable income.
I would consider a middle class lifestyle as being able to have the following without going into debt or having anxiety about spending your savings:
1. Living alone or with a partner
2. Being able to afford a new car when the old one is beyond repair
3. Having enough savings to be able to comfortably cover large expenses that arise (new furnace, surgery for self or pets, new roof, etc).
4. Being able to buy a big ticket item (new couch, new TV, etc) once a year.
5. Being able to afford to go on a foreign vacation once a year (even if it has to be in the off season)
6. Putting a hefty percentage of income into a retirement fund
When I was making $50k a year, the things above were either unavailable to me or were a struggle. Overall, I define middle class as not having to really worry about money since you know you have enough to take care of almost any problem that may arise.
“1. Living alone or with a partner
2. Being able to afford a new car when the old one is beyond repair
3. Having enough savings to be able to comfortably cover large expenses that arise (new furnace, surgery for self or pets, new roof, etc).
4. Being able to buy a big ticket item (new couch, new TV, etc) once a year.
5. Being able to afford to go on a foreign vacation once a year (even if it has to be in the off season)
6. Putting a hefty percentage of income into a retirement fund”
1. Sure, seems reasonable.
2. A *new* car, or a newER car? The latter, sure.
3. “Comfortably” cover a $10,000+ expense? No way that’s a threshold.
4. Depends what you mean by ‘big’–you mean a $700 couch/tv, or a $6k couch/TV? The former, sure.
5. The typical American doesn’t have a passport. Your concept of MC threshold items is goofy.
6. “hefty” probably means 10%+. Not unreasonable.
“middle class vacation” is a trip to the wisconsin dells, not flying anywhere
Even the dells is expensive. Try daycation at Montrose beach or a trip to great america.
I would love to live cheap and austere, like i used to live, but life gets in the way; kids/cars/food/housing/income taxes (which are progressive); and before you know it, it gets hard to be austere. I find that the pennies I save where I can are dwarfed by the increase in expenses. Property tax increases alone can eat up all the ‘savings’ i had in a year from eating rice and beans and using that chicken carcass in every possible way. The co-pays and deductibles from a earlier emergency room visit used up the money we saved by not going to Florida this summer but rather, going to stay with family up north. An impromptu dinner eating out costing $70 with tip spent all the money we saved by not buying baby clothes that month and buying generic baby everything
My dad is always talking about how his family was poor when he was very young. His description of what it was like being poor:
1. Living in an undesirable location around tough kids (gangs weren’t an issues back then)
2. Trips to the Dells
3. Grandma had to work as a waitress to make ends meet
4. Using a laundromat
5. Eating chicken pot pies because they were cheap
6. Not going to the dentist every 6 months
7. Never ordering pizza or eating out
8. Only having two bedrooms total despite having 3 kids
9. Living in an apartment instead of a single family home
10. Never really feeling secure, no safety net
Exactly HD… I think of middle class as living comfortably, but things like hospital visits, vet visits, replacing appliances/furniture/cars, always seems to get in the way. I generally wait until my appliances and cars no longer function before replacing them. I am forgoing a vacation in 2016 because I had to buy a car this year (used, but that down payment really cut into my savings). I may have to forgo a vacation in 2017 due to a potential special assessment and increased property taxes. Don’t get me started on how I am paying for lazy city retirees to go on vacations, when I have to give mine up…
“lazy city retirees to go on vacations”
People who have $50,000 pensions!!
The pensions are significantly more than $50,000 per year for a career officer/firefighter: https://www.illinoispolicy.org/reports/fact-finder-pension-benefits-of-chicago-workers/
Their contributions are also next to nothing and they get to retire much earlier than anyone else.
“what it was like being poor”
“Trips to the Dells”
Um, being *poor* means “trips to Montrose Beach, on the CTA”, as HD points out.
“Not going to the dentist every 6 months”
Unless Medicaid pays for dental work, being poor means *never* going to the dentist.
“Using a laundromat”
That’s time and place specific, not necessarily being poor.
“Living in an apartment instead of a single family home”
C’mon. So 99% of Manhattanites are poor?
A family of *5* would absolutely have a tough time, in Chicago, on $50k. A family of 5 qualifies for medicaid up to about $39k. But, if we are defining ‘middle class’ solely by HHI, then (1) the number in the HH isn’t very relevant, and (2) $50k is within the bounds.
I should have qualified the city and said Chicago (and excluded the Gold Coast from that).
I disagree about the laundromat thing… my mom’s family sent their clothes out to be laundered whereas my dad and his brother used to have to go to the laundromat themselves. My dad’s family couldn’t afford to have my grandma stay at home. She wasn’t a pioneering woman who was working by choice. She had to work to help support the family.
If we go by your definition of poor, then we’d basically only include homeless people.
I qualify middle class as living a comfortably. Perhaps a $50k income could be considered “working poor” instead of impoverished.
“The pensions are significantly more than $50,000 per year for a career officer/firefighter”
… who retired in the last 3 years, and thus is not a representative sample. And “career” is an undefined term.
I’m not saying that I agree with the calculation of police and fire pensions, but citing a data subset that was deliberately chosen to be representative of “retirees” generally is goofy.
“my mom’s family sent their clothes out to be laundered ”
So, your mom was *rich*. Like, super, astronomically rich.
“If we go by your definition of poor, then we’d basically only include homeless people.”
Oh, so homeless people make $50,000 a year in your world. Got it.
” Perhaps a $50k income could be considered “working poor””
You are totally delusional. Do you think that everything that Trump sez is a good point?
My mom’s family was middle class. My grandpa owned a very small business. I don’t think sending out laundry is something only for wealthy people. Heck, there are services that pick up people’s laundry even today and you don’t have to be wealthy to use them.
A family with kids, making $50k a year is not middle class. How can they afford childcare, health care, housing, groceries, taxes, etc? As a single person, it was doable, but with kids, there’s just no way I could have made it. I have friends with one child who make about that (she stays home). His dad bought their condo, so they don’t have a mortgage payment, but it’s still tough for them to get by (assessments, utilities, taxes). They can afford food and clothes, but there’s not much left for fun stuff. Another couple I know with a kid live in a one bedroom apartment in downtown San Diego, so she can be close to downtown and take the baby everywhere. They are earning closer to $100k, but there is very little money for fun stuff. They come back to visit family in Chicago a few times a year, but never take a fun vacation. If they were to need to buy a new/used car, they would be in trouble.
You make it work with all the government giveouts like the EITC and child tax credit and all that jazz thats worth at least a couple hundred a month and if you’re on foodstamps too well that takes care of that
FYI, Median Family Income in Chicago Metro is $77,700.
As a comparison, Median Family Income in LA Metro is $63,000.
“My mom’s family was middle class.”
“I don’t think sending out laundry is something only for wealthy people.”
Just additional evidence of your demented view of ‘middle class’.
“As a single person, it was doable, but with kids, there’s just no way I could have made it.”
Right, because you think that taking an international vacation every year is something everyone who isn’t poor should be able to afford.
I think the reason the middle class feels poor is because the expectations of what is deserved has been skewed. First world problems.
Everyone needs an iphone, big fancy flat screen TV, new car, latest clothes, cable TV, etc. Everyone deserves to live in the hippest neighborhood. I was reading an article in NY Times I believe about a minimum wage worker. This chick had a $99/mo cell phone bill. Kid had on a pair of baby Jordans. Nails done. Weave tight.
I’d argue the poor have never been wealthier in terms of material items and comfort in that in many ways they live better than the middle and upper class did a generation ago.
There will always be areas where people who work hard and earn a modest living have no hope of living. Heck, I have a client moving back to Chicago from NYC because they can’t afford it and they are 1%ers.
The true middle class couldn’t give a damn about living in Chicago greenzone. They are your mechanics, shop workers, tradesmen, etc who live in the far out burbs. Middle america types. Middle class isn’t some 22-23 year consulting analyst making $60k with a room mate bitching about having to pay $1500/rent so they can be 2 blocks from Intelligentsia and Lululemon.
“moving back to Chicago from NYC because they can’t afford it and they are 1%ers”
Can’t afford *their expectations*, as you note.
They certainly “can afford” NYC, but not a Classic 6 and car service and private school and Per Se twice a month, etc etc. Oh, and sending the laundry out.
“The true middle class couldn’t give a damn about living in Chicago greenzone.”
And think that Panama City Beach is tropical enough, plus you can drive there–it’s less than 900 miles from Joliet.
Everyone has to figure out what they are willing to sacrifice and tolerate in their lifestyle relative to their income. No one is owed anything imho.
What is ironic is that a lot of the cool neighborhoods started off as places for people to live who couldn’t afford to live in whatever the hot hood was at the time. Maybe some of the people complaining should be more adventurous instead of following the crowd.
Sometimes you have go off the beaten path, but that doesn’t mean you won’t find a great place to live.
“They are your mechanics, shop workers, tradesmen, etc who live in the far out burbs.”
These guys tend to tool around in $70,000 trucks. I guess it’s all what you want.
“I’d argue the poor have never been wealthier in terms of material items and comfort in that in many ways they live better than the middle and upper class did a generation ago.”
I agree with you on this. I was listening to the song “Can’t Buy Me Love” recently and it made me think, what could someone in the 60s possibly want? How much home decor and jewelry can a person possibly want? There was no innovation and nothing of interest to buy back then. You owned a record playing and a TV and that was it. There weren’t new electronics to buy every year.
Homedelte I live by Irving Park and California.
To the person who said the two links I sent did not disclose data by age groups, etc. look closer. http://www.whatsmypercent.com look under “data” and then from there they break it down by gender, educational attainment, age brackets, etc. For even more in depth data, please visit
https://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/index.html
The census department has the data broken down into so many sub categories it is ridiculous. By education, either renter or home owner, region of our country, etc. But here is a basic summary: the median household income is $50,500, HOUSEHOLD INCOME: 0-$25,000 25%,
$25,000-$49,999 24.5%, $50,000-$74,999 18%, $75,000-$99,999 11.7%, $100,000-$149,999 12.1%, $150,000-$149,999 4.4%.
In our culture everyone wants to claim the status of “middle class”. It makes the masses feel better. Regardless of your income, in a world of 192 nations and about 7 billion people, you better thank your lucky stars that you were born here in the U.S. of A. Or you emigrated here or you just sneaked in.
“I think the reason the middle class feels poor is because the expectations of what is deserved has been skewed. First world problems.
Everyone needs an iphone, big fancy flat screen TV, new car, latest clothes, cable TV, etc. Everyone deserves to live in the hippest neighborhood. I was reading an article in NY Times I believe about a minimum wage worker. This chick had a $99/mo cell phone bill. Kid had on a pair of baby Jordans. Nails done. Weave tight.
I’d argue the poor have never been wealthier in terms of material items and comfort in that in many ways they live better than the middle and upper class did a generation ago.
There will always be areas where people who work hard and earn a modest living have no hope of living. Heck, I have a client moving back to Chicago from NYC because they can’t afford it and they are 1%ers.
The true middle class couldn’t give a damn about living in Chicago greenzone. They are your mechanics, shop workers, tradesmen, etc who live in the far out burbs. Middle america types. Middle class isn’t some 22-23 year consulting analyst making $60k with a room mate bitching about having to pay $1500/rent so they can be 2 blocks from Intelligentsia and Lululemon.”
All you needed was a at the end
There are some really skewed perceptions on what Middle Class is
“They can afford food and clothes, but there’s not much left for fun stuff.”
My son spends most his weekends in the Chicago Children’s Museum in the colder month of the year. The family membership is around $100. In the summer he goes and plays in the park and it is a ton of fun. My best memories of my childhood are of playing with my friends on the block. Fun is not spending a ton of money on a fancy vacation.
“I agree with you on this. I was listening to the song “Can’t Buy Me Love” recently and it made me think, what could someone in the 60s possibly want? How much home decor and jewelry can a person possibly want? ”
You can never be too thin or too rich.
Taking a family of 4 to one of the big museums in Chicago is about $100. My friends earning $50k a year could not afford that. They go when the free library passes are available.
My argument is still that $50k a year is not middle class plain and simple. Yes, you can find fun things to do for not much money (parks, LP Zoo, beaches, etc) and you can be a happy person on that salary.
Perceptions of middle class have changed over the years, and what is generally seen as middle class has been on a downward directory. For example, experienced teachers claim they’re middle class, and in simpler times, they would be middle class, but $90,000 a year plus a generous pension is no longer middle class, it’s pushing on the low end of the upper middle class. Another example, a few of my relatives had careers in a fire department. They retired early, built up a ton of equity in their homes over the years, and they have great pensions. They travel often, the net present values of those pensions approach $1M, and the checks keep coming in every month. 30 years ago, that was the end result of a middle class lifestyle, but today, that’s practically the upper middle class.
Today, a two parent working household with white collar, not necessarily professional jobs, that has health insurance, newer cars, a mortgage and some savings is the new upper middle class. 30 years ago that was middle class, and back then, there was only a 50/50 chance the woman was emplyoed outside the household, whereas today, it’s nearly certain.
Middle class today means no food stamps, WIC, medicaid, a car or two, probably a mortgage in some middle class suburban suburb like carpentersville, rolling meadows, oak lawn or tinley park, with a little savings, lots of debt, and generally only a few paychecks from complete disaster. I’ve seen it, believe me. The bankruptcy code defines median income in our area for a family of four around $80,000, and it requires sacrifices to live off $80,000 with four people – older cars, high deductible insurance plans, minimum emergency savings, older cars, eating out occasionally but not regularly, etc. Not that there’s nothing ignoble about living that lifestyle, but for the chatteratti who have households with two working parents that spend 100+ hours a week outside of the home between the two of them, driving older cards and not having any savings is difficult to fathom, but that’s what the median income for a family of 4 roughly is in the chicagoland area. I personally know of families of four that live off SSDI payments of $2,000 a month, and they’ve been living that way for years. They aren’t middle class, they are poor.
@Jenny let me put it concisely for you……if you can’t live on $50k a year then you are doing something wrong and just don’t know how to manage your money!
I agree with Jenny, 50K a year is middle class many places in America, but the Chicago metro area is decidedly not one of them. Having said that, I think Jenny’s middle class manifesto skews toward the upper middle class, which is absolutely not to say if you exceed all of that you are necessarily rich by any means, just that there are many, many legitimately middle class people who can’t check all of those boxes every single year, especially those with families.
“Taking a family of 4 to one of the big museums in Chicago is about $100.”
It is around $100 for a whole year! That is a great deal. The kid plays in the children’s museum for hours and I can even get some work done while he plays.
Playing in all the parks are for free. Kids would play for hours with just a ball.
Traveling long haul international with small kids is not even that great. You think you can take a 5 year old to the Louvre and they or you would enjoy it? I only take the kid along when we go stay for a long period with family or go to a close by destination.
BTW, I won’t be surprised if many of the households with $50K income have single bread winners or folks that work 9-5 jobs. As a result, parents have more time to engage with their kids so child care costs are lower than for families with stressful deadline driven jobs.
Homedelte I live by Addison and California.
Jenny it seems like you know what you want and have not fallen into the modern day myth that a person can have it all. A marriage, kids, a career, lots of money, etc. Kids are not compatible with a modern day western life style. If you want kids then fine, please do have them and be happy. But don’t fall into the trap of trying to have it all. The self help books and authors who sell that dream are telling people what they want to hear.