Lincoln Park Vintage 4-Bedroom Reduces Again: 399 W. Fullerton Parkway
This 4-bedroom in 399 W. Fullerton Parkway in East Lincoln Park came on the market in June 2019.
Built in 1926-27 by McNally & Quinn, according to Chicago Apartments, it’s in the French Renaissance style.
It’s an exclusive building with just 2 units per floor and just 32 units in the 17 story building.
It’s also unusual for a building in this period in that there’s a garage on the first floor. Garage and guest parking is available in the building.
It has 24-hour door staff.
We last chattered about this unit in January 2021 when it had been reduced to $675,000.
Back then, the sister unit, #14E, had been remodeled and had gone under contract at $1.495 million.
It sold in February 2021 for $1.3 million.
You can see those pictures here.
This unit has views overlooking the park and lake.
It has wood crown molding in the living room along with a gas fireplace.
There are hardwood floors in the living and dining room.
The listing says there are hardwoods under the carpet in the bedrooms.
There’s now more description about the kitchen in the listing.
“The kitchen was moved and enlarged; it occupies an area that was once two maid’s bedrooms. The kitchen includes a 5-star range with grill and double oven, a SubZero refrigerator and separate freezer, a Fisher Paykel dishwasher, and a wine refrigerator. The former kitchen is now an office/4th bedroom with full bath.”
It is a rare vintage building that has modern amenities including central air and radiant heat, washer/dryer in the unit and valet garage parking is available for $300 a month.
Originally listed in June 2019 at $899,000, it has been reduced $249,000 to $650,000.
Given the sales price of the sister unit, is this a deal?
Jennifer Ames at Engel & Voelkers now has the listing. See the pictures and floor plan here.
Unit #14W: 4 bedrooms, 3 baths, 3000 square feet, co-op
- I couldn’t find a prior sales price as it’s a co-op
- Originally listed in June 2019 at $899,000
- Reduced numerous times
- Was listed in January 2021 at $675,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $650,000
- Assessments are now $2799 a month (they were $4549 a month in January 2021) (includes heat, doorman, cable, gas, exterior maintenance, lawn care scavenger, snow removal but not the taxes.) The taxes were included last time and the listing said they were $1856 a month. That meant the rest of the assessment was $2593 a month.
- Taxes are $19,652
- Central Air
- Washer/dryer in the unit
- Valet garage parking for $300 a month
- 1 fireplace
- Bedroom #1: 19×12
- Bedroom #2: 20×13
- Bedroom #3: 16×12
- Bedroom #4: 13×9
- Living room: 29×16
- Dining room: 19×14
- Kitchen: 17×13
- Foyer: 14×8
Note to the sellers (of this otherwise nice unit): pic #17, with the empty TP roll – you should demand that the listing agreement be amended to provide for a lower commission.
Taxes went down 12%? Huh.
Bathrooms are all dogs.
What’s the kitchen ceiling about??
Taxes went down 12%? Huh.
Co-op don’t forget.
I wonder how inexpensively the Reno playbook + general reno execution from the sister unit could be negotiated for this one? Same measurements, aged building, etc. If that could be done at a discount for this unit (compared to hiring another contractor) , could be a good deal for both the new owner and the contractor who is just reperforming something that’s (for the most part) already been done.
Anyone know who the “long time famous resident” of this place is?
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/235-W-Eugenie-St-60614/unit-T2/home/13344190
“Anyone know who the “long time famous resident” of this place is?”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Kutza
Should I do a post on it?
Whoops, wrong snark board.
I’ve noted before that this building has very high assessments with no outdoor space and just one parking spot per unit. The unit needs a complete renovation and this building has fairly strict renovation rules. Unless changed recently, all contractors, etc. must be out by 4:30. That alone makes the costs more expensive since you generally pay for a full day of work.
This is a gorgeous building and for someone who is willing to put up with the high assessment, the price for this unit is the lowest I have seen in 399 in years. Also, 442 W. Wellington is a great alternative to 399, but with two parking spots (outdoor), a lovely outdoor area/sport court and much lower assessments. The units in 442 are also generally larger than 399: https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/442-W-Wellington-Ave-60657/unit-3E/home/176172214?&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc&utm_campaign=1023726&utm_term=dsa-1341488467816&utm_content=454669087896&adgid=111663001848&gclid=Cj0KCQjwtrSLBhCLARIsACh6Rmj8lMcB9k2o-AoYEV6dAi_t4HyYt0CunvnugURiPTasyVxSSNeS_s0aAn95EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
“Unless changed recently, all contractors, etc. must be out by 4:30.”
Why is this different than any other building?
I’ve never lived in a big building where you could do construction outside of the 9 to 5 window. Especially now, during the pandemic, with everyone working from home. There’s no way anyone is going to be drilling at 7 pm. Although a few buildings let you start at 8 or 8:30 instead of 9.
It is always more expensive to do a renovation in a high rise. There are a lot of things involved (like reserving the elevator, carting away the old cabinets, appliances and finishes.) You also have to deal with getting things like the water turned off and so you have to coordinate with the building for that.
But there are contractors who JUST do the high rises, so they are familiar and that cost is all priced into any renovation.
This is a wonderful building and I spent many pleasant hours there in my high school days because a friend of mine and his parents lived in a huge apartment there.
The problem now is the assessments. I just don’t see a huge number of people willing to pay so much on top of their mortgage to pay for upkeep in these small Lincoln Park and Lakeview high rises. Even on the Gold Coast, there might be less demand.
The older people who’ve been living in building like this are dying off, and the next generation might not be able or willing to take on the commitment. Yes, there will still be the billionaires buying 3-story penthouses downtown, but people like that want the brightest and newest. They also want to be closer to the center of town.
This could leave a big problem for those remaining in these beautiful old buildings. They don’t have the amenities (at least this one has parking), and they’re farther from the action. I’m 50, so it’ll be interesting to see what happens to this housing stock the remaining years of my life.
@Sabrina “Unless changed recently, all contractors, etc. must be out by 4:30.”
The problem is not the restricted hours, which, as you point out is common is most buildings. The problem is that the hours are especially restrictive. Many buildings allow contractors to stay until 5. To end a major renovation 30 minutes early every day eats away at the budget. Again, it’s possible 399 updated the rules. If not, a buyer should pay attention to this when calculating renovation costs.
“This could leave a big problem for those remaining in these beautiful old buildings.”
Lots of maintenance with few units to pay for it. But yes, it will be interesting to see, with the turnover of the generations, what happens.
When institutional investors such as Zillow.com who were funneling in VC capital into purchasing home suddenly announce they are no longer going to you know the peak is here for the real estate market.
Should places like Zillow, Blackstone, etc have ever been involved in the real estate speculation game in the first place?
“When institutional investors such as Zillow.com who were funneling in VC capital into purchasing home suddenly announce they are no longer going to you know the peak is here for the real estate market.”
Yep- they can’t get the labor or the kitchen cabinets either.
You can’t flip a house quickly if you are waiting months for windows.
Who wouldn’t delay? The home builders are delaying too. They have stalled taking on new orders because they want to clear some of the huge backlog. Deliveries are slower than normal because they can’t get their hands on the building materials either. Buyers cancel if they have to wait too long for the new house. Makes sense to simply not sell them the house in the first place.
Windows and appliances are especially in short supply.
Thing is unlike the home builders who are sitting on unfinished and untaxable construction in progress the Zillows & Blackstones of the world are stuck with the maintenance and upkeep on this inventory. The two are not comparable.
Those institutional investors who bulked up on real estate investments near peak valuations are now going to hemorrhage money holding them.
“When institutional investors such as Zillow.com who were funneling in VC capital into purchasing home suddenly announce they are no longer going to you know the peak is here for the real estate market.”
You’re saying that their stated reason is not the actual reason? Isn’t that (arguably) securities fraud?
The iBuyers are just serving a role like a more traditional IPO or public debt underwriter–they’re fronting the cash, and then assume the risk (and get the reward) of going to market. It’s a service that is actually worth the 5-6% at any valuations.
“ The problem now is the assessments. I just don’t see a huge number of people willing to pay so much on top of their mortgage to pay for upkeep in these small Lincoln Park and Lakeview high rises”
Agree with you to an extent, though I do believe there will always be rich people willing to pay to live in the high end vintage buildings like this one and on Lakeview Ave. This is exactly where I’d live if money was of zero concern. Some of us prefer Lincoln Park over downtown.
What i wonder about more is the buildings up the street of the 60/70s era. 345 Fullerton, 2800 LSD, 330 Diversey, 2626 Lakeview. These buildings are past the 50 yr mark and facing huge expensive projects as things like pipes, elevators, windows age. While good management long-term plans for it, there’s always the unexpected and naturally assessments will continue to creep up. But who will want to buy into these buildings with constant ongoing projects when the buildings don’t have any special charm or modern amenities? I think long time owners will end up screwed. Rising property taxes add to the issue. At 2626, fixed monthly costs (HOA + taxes) on a 3/2.5 are already $2,300.
“While good management long-term plans for it, there’s always the unexpected and naturally assessments will continue to creep up. But who will want to buy into these buildings with constant ongoing projects when the buildings don’t have any special charm or modern amenities?”
Location. And some don’t appreciate the “charm” of older vintage.
All depends on the building, right?
Every building/house needs maintenance. You don’t get to live for free in anything. There’s always something breaking down, a new roof, driveway, garage door, carpeting or flooring. The same in any high rise.
The key is to check the reserves. Many banks will even check if there are ample reserves before lending in a building now. If the building has been maintained, then there shouldn’t be any surprises. You can find out from the condo board when they replaced the elevators, the roof, the air conditioning/heating for the building. Those are big expenses. Next comes windows and balconies. If they just recently did these things, then you are okay for a few decades.
Then comes hallway refreshes. You have to do one of those every 10 years, give or take. Some may want to redo a lobby (but expensive.) Lots are redoing amenities to appeal to younger buyers and compete with apartment buildings.
Also have the issue of installing EV charging stations in older garages.
Even if you buy a 1960 single family home, “something” is going to come up. There are always surprises in home ownership.
“You’re saying that their stated reason is not the actual reason? Isn’t that (arguably) securities fraud?”
Their stated reason was that they can’t get any labor, cabinets etc. So they have high carrying costs because they can’t flip it fast enough.
Makes sense that they’d put a pause on it.
But it does tell you how rough it is out there in construction right now. It’s hard just to get your kitchen renovated. Zillow is trying to flip in dozens of cities. You have to have a dependable team in each city to carry it all out. And hope you can buy appliances.
“Their stated reason was…”
Yes, I know. Bob is positing that they stopped for ‘top of the market’ reasons.
I was asking Bob if he is asserting that they are lying.