Live in the Heart of Tri-Taylor in This 2-Bedroom Duplex: 1449 W. Lexington
This 2-bedroom duplex up unit at 1449 W. Lexington in the Tri-Taylor (or is this University Village?) neighborhood is right in the heart of the dining/shopping district.
The listing says the unit has been upgraded with designer finishes.
There are hardwood floors throughout.
The kitchen has white 42 inch cabinets, stainless steel appliances, granite counter tops and a glass tile backsplash.
The full bath has a floating vanity with double sink.
It has all the other bells and whistles that buyers look for including central air, washer/dryer in the unit and parking.
Nicholas Skidmore at Starting Point Realty has the listing. The listing is also agent owned. See more pictures and the floor plan here.
Unit #A: 2 bedrooms, 1.5 baths, duplex up, 1400 square feet
- Looks like it sold in 1988
- Sold in August 2008 for $324,000
- Currently listed for $374,900 (parking included)
- Assessments of $178 a month
- Taxes of $3593
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 14×10 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 11×12 (second floor)
this place is nice, but I don’t think the neighborhood warrants lincoln park/bucktown prices does it?
nice looking place, shows well. Not hot on the kitchen, but nice bathrooms. Hard to think it would go for that much more than the 2008 price though.
“Hard to think it would go for that much more than the 2008 price though.”
Why must everyone judge what something is worth by what someone paid for it previously. This practice does no good to buyers. For example, what if the seller had bought the place for 1million dollars (exaggerating, obviously). That would make people think the price is a good deal. Alternatively, what if the seller paid 1 dollar for it – then everyone would be mad at the “mark up”. I don’t want to sound too preachy – I consistently fall into this trap!!!
Clio – the price someone paid for it before is a comp.
As are selling prices of what is going on in the market right now.
To think that someone wouldn’t be interested in what the previous owner paid is foolish.
“To think that someone wouldn’t be interested in what the previous owner paid is foolish.”
I have to disagree w/this. Of course current selling prices ARE important but NOT what a particular person paid for a property. The only time I have found this helpful is when negotiating a deal AFTER a price had been agreed upon.
Reread my example and see if you can understand what I am talking about.
“Why must everyone judge what something is worth by what someone paid for it previously.”
When the prior price was b/t 05-08, and the price *looks like* what someone would have paid for in on the open market then, then it seems silly to pay more for it now, unless it is evident that the property was improved since then–which is at least possible for this property. If the prior price is either well over 10 years old or obviously not a market price (as in either of your examples), then there isn’t as much dissonance.
well, clio, the previous price from only two years ago is probably the best single data point to have, all things equal. obviously there is more to it than that, but in this market the ’08 price is very relevant.
and i’m not sure what’s been done, but their asking price implies they put at least $50K into this place and even then they’re still asking one to assume a flat market since mid/late ’08 — that seems a stretch to say the least.
and this place also strikes me as one that is trying WAY too hard with staging. i don’t really understand why staging works with people as it’s not like this place is coming furnished…
it doesn’t look like it has a master suite either, not to mention closet space looks tight. that would eliminate a lot of potential buyers.
has a garage space but only 1.5 bath…my guess is price gets dropped as i don’t think the market supports anything north of $350K and it’s a longshot there, too.
$330-$340 is my guess. and i’d say i’m an optimist.
Clio, I am trying to take a charitable interpretation of your comments, so I will respond with two questions:
1) Are you arguing that the previous market value of a listed property (and its sale price is of course, the best indication of its market value) not AT ALL relevant to determining its current market value?
2) You claim that “selling prices of what is going on” ARE relevant. What if this same property sold recently and is back on the market? Would its sale price now be a relevant data point for its current market value, since it’s a “selling price of what is going now”?
“When the prior price was b/t 05-08, and the price *looks like* what someone would have paid for in on the open market then, then it seems silly to pay more for it now”
What if the previous owner bought this as a foreclosure? I have bought foreclosures throughout the 2000s and have paid far under market value (at the time)for those properties. What I paid for them should NOT matter in current pricing. The only thing that SHOULD matter is how much are similar properties in the same area selling for.
Of course the prior purchase price should matter, to think otherwise is completely disingenuous. To what degree is certainly up for debate.
This place looks pretty nice!
“The only thing that SHOULD matter is how much are similar properties in the same area selling for.”
But what if the comps are foreclosures that are selling for far under market value? Vicious cycle, no?
“2) You claim that “selling prices of what is going on” ARE relevant. What if this same property sold recently and is back on the market? Would its sale price now be a relevant data point for its current market value, since it’s a “selling price of what is going now”?”
Even recent sales could be irrelevant – as these could have been acquired as a foreclosure. Again, the only thing that SHOULD matter is how much are similar properties in the same area selling for. Buyers need to get over their hangup about others making a profit.
Joe Zekas used to make the same argument that previous selling price shouldn’t matter. Funny how the people trying to sell you real estate and the ones that repeated say “previous selling price doesn’t matter” yet most who buy real estate think it does.
“Buyers need to get over their hangup about others making a profit.”
I don’t begrudge someone making a few bucks on their home by any means, but are you saying that a buyer should just roll over and not try to squeeze as much as possible out of the seller? Prior purchase price (and mortgage details) is the BEST possible way to know how much wiggle room they have as a base of negotiation.
If there were a really active market and there were lots of recent good comps, maybe prior price would be much less relevant (although still relevant as Barry notes to understanding the seller’s position). But the market is very stagnant and there is a lot of heterogeneity of properties in many parts of the city. There are places I’ve looked at that have really no good comps in the last few months.
“Prior purchase price (and mortgage details) is the BEST possible way to know how much wiggle room they have as a base of negotiation.”
Agree – but just because somebody has “wiggle room” doesn’t necessarily mean that they will use it. Remember, the people who are most desperate to sell are those with little wiggle room. Several smart investors/ rich people have a lot of wiggle room (b/c the property is paid off, etc.) but will NOT negotiate because either they have a lot of money tied up in the property (b/c they paid cash) and/or their carrying costs are not that high (b/c they have a small or no mortgage).
As both the agent and owner of the proeprty, I find all comments, both positive and negative on this thread to be rather helpful. A lot has been done to the place since our purchase almost exactly 2 years ago. Every surface has been touched, including all floors, walls, tile, light fixture, etc.
I am also an architect and am able to score some pretty great deals on designer items.
Yes, the property lacks a true master suite, but I do think that the uniquness of the space, proximity to hospitals (2 dr’s & nursecurrently reside in the complex of 9 units), loop, etc. will warrant a buyer interested in the living space itself.
If the previous purchase was out of foreclosure, clearly that should be a factor when trying to use the purchase price as a “comp”. Even then, it is still an EXTREMELY relevant data point. For example, it it sold out of foreclosure for $10k, that would be very different than it selling out of foreclosure for $280k.
“the only thing that SHOULD matter is how much are similar properties in the same area selling for”
1) As HD will point out, that would leave you with no mechanism to detect an overpriced area or market as a whole.
2) As any realtor will point out, other properties are always limited by their degree of similarity to the property in question.
What is the cut-off point for relevance (since apparently ONLY time matters in determining value, and once a certain amount of time has passed, prior sales become completely worthless as data points)? Is it sales within the last 30 days? 90 days? 1 year?
There is ONE accurate point you’re making, which is about confusing current value with someone’s “deserved” profit. There is a tendency to slide from a descriptive point about current value using (in part) prior value, to a normative point about whether someone *should* have x profit, suffer x consequences. This can lead to quite irrational consequences, like people complaining about how fair/unfair it is for someone to reap x profits/losses.
Clio claims to drive a convertible Lamborghini and wonders aloud why people don’t take him seriously.
Clio claims that his 1,900 sf party pad in the city is so small that he can’t stand to live there for more than 3 days per month.
Finally, Clio claims to have written a thesis called “Poor Little Rich Kids” that sheds light on how entitlement has negatively affected the judgement of upper class teenagers.
Now, I don’t mind Clio. It’s world class schtick and it’s fun to read. It’s depressing to see so many people get riled up by it though.
Self conscious super car owners don’t exist. People that own high end sports cars tend to realize that said cars carry a high DB factor and don’t care what other people think of them.
Folks who get cramped by ~2,000 sf city pads don’t waste their money on them. Especially not this city where a person with means can find pretty much any size apartment.
No thesis advisor at any school that actually requires a thesis would E-V-E-R accept that paper. He would be laughed out of the room and the paper would used by the faculty as cautionary propaganda of what to never ever ever ever consider doing.
“Clio claims that his 1,900 sf party pad…” and then “…Folks who get cramped by ~2,000 sf city pads”
wow – my 1850 sq ft place keeps getter bigger and bigger…..
“No thesis advisor at any school that actually requires a thesis would E-V-E-R accept that paper.”
I went to the University of Chicago (in Hyde Park – not UIC) and I think they actually liked the paper and thought it added a new and refreshing perspective to traditional thinking.
Chicagobull touché!!!
Is it illegal to buy your own property? Because I think that’s what’s gonna happen. People are gonna figure out some way to buy their current property from themselves –maybe have the wife purchase the home that only has the husband’s name on it currently — for exactly what they owe, or perhaps a tad more to inflat the comp, then put it back on the market.
“Is it illegal to buy your own property? Because I think that’s what’s gonna happen. People are gonna figure out some way to buy their current property from themselves –maybe have the wife purchase the home that only has the husband’s name on it currently — for exactly what they owe, or perhaps a tad more to inflat the comp, then put it back on the market.”
1. Unclear how you think it would work w/r/t the existing loan.
2. Transfer taxes are non-negligible.
3. If the intent of the transaction is to deceive a potential purchaser, that would qualify as fraud.
What the heck screw came loose at cribchatter this a.m.?
“Prior sale price not relevant?”
“Buy your own property?”
Want to PROVE prior sale price IS relevant? Just go make an offer on your own property!
(See, didn’t matter if last sale price was a REO transaction, did it?)
And if cc wasn’t making me cranky enough, totally not a fan of this property– they should be taking a discount for that kitchen, not charging a premium.
*Grumble*. . .
“they should be taking a discount for that kitchen, not charging a premium.”
It can’t be that odd in person, can it? Can it?!?
“I went to the University of Chicago (in Hyde Park – not UIC) and I think they actually liked the paper and thought it added a new and refreshing perspective to traditional thinking.”
Being smart (but apparently not smart enough to get into an Ivy and possibly Northwestern), is no excuse to spend 4 years with a bunch of social misfits. My recollection was there were some seriously unadjusted folks at U of C undergrad (20 years ago, things might have changed lol).
Is chicagobull now making phone calls to UofC to track down a copy of that thesis?
“No thesis advisor at any school that actually requires a thesis would E-V-E-R accept that paper. He would be laughed out of the room and the paper would used by the faculty as cautionary propaganda of what to never ever ever ever consider doing.”
If you dress it up a bit, I think you could make almost any thesis topic fly.
“but apparently not smart enough to get into an Ivy and possibly Northwestern”
U of C is better than Northwestern, isn’t it? Students seem brighter to me. Also, U of C is nice to hire from b/c there’s less grade inflation there than just about any place I can think of, so you can actually make something from the transcripts. I’ve interviewed Northwestern undergrads with 3.8 or 3.9 GPA (taking respectable classes) who just weren’t that smart.
“What I paid for them should NOT matter in current pricing. The only thing that SHOULD matter is how much are similar properties in the same area selling for.”
Is this your way of challenging “traditional thinking,” clio? If by “traditional thinking” you are referring to the world as it is, and not the world that clio thinks it should be, then yes, you are challenging traditional thinking every day. Right here. On this blog.
I would love to know about Clio’s thesis…and not because I don’t believe him/her — I’m legitimately curious about the it — always up for a refreshing perspective to traditional thinking! Clio, what was the topic and the new perspective?
anon (tfo), so let’s say you owe $200K on your existing mortgage and the name on the mortgage is John DumbbuyerduringBoom. Your wife, 2nd cousin, or even your business (a.k.a. DumbbuyerduringBoom Inc.) gets a loan for $200K (assume it passes appraisal). The bank holding your mortgage doesn’t really care as long as it gets the note paid.
No yes you’ve paid some extra costs like the transfer taxes, but at the end of the day you’ve created an artifical comp. You put the place back on the market in 30 days and maybe unload it to a real unrelated party for what you owe on the mortgage, or maybe a little more. It could theoretically beat putting your place on the market for a lot less than you owe on the mortgage and bringing money to the closing table.
I’m not saying this crazy idea is feasible, i’m just saying there’s probably someone out there who is more devious than me and can make it work with some additional tweaking.
I’m going to The Reg to try to pick it up tonight…
Lol.
“If you dress it up a bit, I think you could make almost any thesis topic fly.”
Correct. And by dress up, I assume you mean adding a nonsensical second title to weight down the snappy first title. Something like: “Poor Little Rich Kid: Ontological and Mathematical Approaches to Studying the Developmental Resonance of Affluence in the Devlopment of Images of Self.”
“U of C is better than Northwestern, isn’t it?”
Correct. U of C students are much better at coming up with the second half of the title.
JMM,
I’m curious about which elite school you went to that had bragable amounts of cool kids.
UofC has its fair share of outcasts, but good luck naming one Ivy with less than 70% social retards.
Brown.
i.e. Emma Watson
“UofC has its fair share of outcasts, but good luck naming one Ivy with less than 70% social retards.”
“assume it passes appraisal”
Assume you have a can opener.
“I’m going to The Reg to try to pick it up tonight…”
Sorry – you’ll have to go to Crerar (U of C humor).
“Being smart (but apparently not smart enough to get into an Ivy and possibly Northwestern), is no excuse to spend 4 years with a bunch of social misfits. My recollection was there were some seriously unadjusted folks at U of C undergrad (20 years ago, things might have changed lol).”
JMM – did you go to U. of C.? I actually graduated there 20 years ago – (although if you met me I don’t think you would think I was “seriously unadjusted”). I also got into Northwestern, Brown, and U Penn but thought U. of C. was more nurturing – hence my decision to do my undergraduate work there.
“Poor Little Rich Kid: Ontological and Mathematical Approaches to Studying the Developmental Resonance of Affluence in the Devlopment of Images of Self.”
Alanon, clever title, and I wonder if you are about my age (as clio is). Every college- or graduate-level paper of merit in the late 80s/early 90s had “of Self” in it, with bonus points added for “Ontological” contemplations.
“I would love to know about Clio’s thesis…and not because I don’t believe him/her — I’m legitimately curious about the it — always up for a refreshing perspective to traditional thinking! Clio, what was the topic and the new perspective?”
‘Poor Little Rich Kid’ explored the often overlooked problems and negative issues involving children of privilege (unrealistic expectations, absentee/poor parenting, unreasonable social expectations, guilt, over-exposure/overindulgence at younger ages, etc.). The negative impact of wealth on the youth is a huge problem (for the children) but is rarely discussed b/c of fear of backlash and lack of compassion. Seriously, these children are often just as disadvantaged and scarred as many other, “less fortunate” kids.
“It can’t be that odd in person, can it? Can it?!?”
I’m sure that, in person, the brown really ties the room together.
thanks, Clio!
Was it an ethnographic study?
“Seriously, these children are often just as disadvantaged and scarred as many other, “less fortunate” kids.”
As long as you don’t get caught up on the meaning of “disadvantaged” or “scarred”. . .
Appears those who said it was priced too high were correct. Reduced to $349k.
Reduced again. To $340k.
I wonder how their strategy of small cuts staged out over several months in a declining market is working out for them?
I just don’t know who would be buying a place like this for well over $300K, unless the demand is being driven by the hospital nearby. There’s really no reason for the price to be this high other than the owner wants to pay off their large mortgage, and still have a little left over? This will never sell above the 2008 price.