Living in the Heart of it All in Southport: 3539 N. Southport
You can’t get much better centrally located than this 2-bedroom unit at 3539 N. Southport in Southport.
Built in 2003, the living room, and the covered balcony, looks out on all of the action in Southport.
The unit has hardwood floors throughout, crown molding and custom plantation shutters.
The kitchen has the cherry 42 inch cabinets and the granite countertops.
How hard is it to sell the $500,000 condo in Southport right now?
Jeffrey Proctor at @Properties has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #3S: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1600 square feet
- Sold in October 2003 for $470,000
- Originally listed in March 2009 for $549,900
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $527,400 (includes the parking)
- Assessments of $199 a month
- Taxes of $6664
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
There are a million 2BRs for sale in LP, that’s the worst type of unit to be selling right now. No way the sale price starts with a ‘5’ here.
Frankly I’d be shocked if they could sell it for what they paid for it in 2003 ($470K). That was a ‘top of market’ price.
$450K.
Wow no, not at that price!
Not even a top floor unit… is this a bad joke?
This place has some decent finishes, especially the moldings. But that price must be a typo.
Joe is correct as to the supply situation. Speaking of northside cookie-cutter units, I just saw a place in the Wrightwood Commons the other day: 3 bed (much bigger than this place), large private deck (unfortunately and all too typically for Chicago, off the master bedroom), elevator, two deeded spaces (one garage, one non-garage), w/d, central air, much larger kitchen than this place (but, as with this place and all too typically for Chicago, it’s open to the living room)…and what is arguably a better location…for the same price (and it was just listed, so it’s inevitable list reduction has yet to come).
Is the “Southport Corridor” still so hot as to justify a half-million dollar two-bedroom (though that second bed looks best as an office) walk-up? If you’re single or without kids, would $500k be better spent in the SL, RN, or BT/WP? With a kid, LP, LVE or RV (I realize this place is close to RV, but it doesn’t seem as family friendly)?
They can deal. Originally bought with 90% financing but paid off second at time of 2007 refi for $385,000.
My favorite N side cookie cutter condos are those ones on Halsted just north of Halsted & Diversey. The condos all look uniform on the streetfront except the developer never built the last building leaving a gaping lot in an otherwise uniform streetfront.
Also the developer has been working on those condos for the past four years, certainly in no rush to alleviate construction dirt & noise for the current residents.
I think the price is high on this one, I would say something more like $475K. The finishes are very nice, the window treatments alone are worth $$$. The location is also a big plus, in less than a year, the new Jewel will be up and running about two blocks north and the brown line is about two blocks south. Plus there are numerous neighborhood parks for the kids, so whoever said this is not a family friendly location is smoking weed on Friday afternoon… Just take a look any day of the week and all you see are mommies and strollers up and down this strip.
Weed?
Where would a kid sleep, in that second bedroom with the glass-door? What elementary school would he or she attend?
I’d venture that most of those mommies are hitting some boutiques and having lunch, having taken the train down from Ravenswood/Aville (or perhpaps drove in from the burbs), or power-walked up from far western Lincoln Park (for whom heading north to the Soutport Corridor is the closest option for commercial/retail/dining/ooffee). Maybe a few bought at the height of the bubble, had a baby, and had counted on quickly moving out of their 2 bed with a tidy profit, but the market decided otherwise.
The price change history is funny. They dropped it three times since March. The second time they dropped it, it was only by a mere $2,500. I bet THAT created a rush of traffic. Yeesh.
nice place but like some one said this area i can spit into the wind and hit a 2/2.
like anonnnonnnonyy said, does 520k seem out of place for not “prime” area of LV
gotta love the yuppies and hipster flocking together driving up prices.
“Southport Corridor”, the name made up by some realtors, is overpriced. I’m surprised they didn’t go with “West Wrigleyville” or some such.. would bring in more drunken Cubs fans to see it.
this could be in the burley school district, which is very good. not sure even though burley is at 3800 sp or so, cps boundaries are kind of all over the place.
Kinda loud on that street, no? Generic… but big… eh. Area is ok – I haven’t been down there in a while but i remember it was just out of walking distance fom a lot of stuff. It’s huge though. 1600 sf according to an @ properties agent… so that means in reality, it’s 1200 sf… still way bigger than most 2/2s selling in the mid 4s in the area. Should be top floor for that price tho.
Spending half a mil is justified by nice finishes and window treatments??? The price should be justified by the location, the quality of the building and neighborhood, the size and arrangement of the rooms. Finishes will go out of style, tastes vary highly from person to person. If buyers are influenced by the decor then I know were in for a lot more pain here. Get back to the basics folks, this is not a quiet street and that is not a true second bedroom. Hopefully this bust will last long enough to bring back some sanity.
The Southport corridor is a very kid-oriented neighborhood. Friend of mine owned a boutique in that area and WAILED at me on the phone:”It’s HOOOOORIBLE!!!! All you ever see is women with baby strollers! How can I survive around here!!??”
All I ever saw was baby strollers and lots of double strollers at that. The area has been “starter house” nabe for many professional couples. When the kids get to school age, they want to sell.
I’m sorry but how do you reconcile “very kid-oriented neighborhood” with “When the kids get to school age, they want to sell”?
Starter house nabe yes, but not (with rare exceptions) if they already have a kid. And as noted in an earlier post, I’d venture that most of the women with strollers in the area don’t live there, but stroll in to grab some lunch or hit the boutiques (a fact that seems lost on your boutique-owner friend).
anonny, do you have a serious thought on this subject. Your comments are so misinformed about this area it is laughable… This particular unit is pretty standard for the units that are actually on Southport, but travel to any one of the side streets and they are primarily SFH and two-flats. Plenty of space for families. The school distric for this unit I think is Blaine, which is one of the best CPS schools. As for second bedroom, who said a bedroom has to only have one entrance door. French doors are just fine. People can hang a curtain or something else so that you can’t see through the glass, it is not uncommon at all.
Laura is absolutely right, the strip is littered with LOCAL moms and their multiple toddlers.
As for the comments about Southport being a busy/loud street, you’re right, but I happen to know a lot of people that like the idea of having a balcony that looks onto a busy street. They like to people watch I guess.
In RE everything you don’t like, is something that someone else most likely will…
Jason R
Looks like it’s Hamilton elementary, not Blaine.
Dumb mommies and families livin’ the high RE valuation dream until their kiddos get to an age where the CPS aren’t up to par with their suburban standards then they hightail it out to the burbs.
How many kids above stroller age do you see in relation to the stroller set? I’m guessing not too many.
Maybe if they hadn’t been stupid and overpaid for their residence they could afford private school. But these things never occured to this lemming set as they just assumed they’d be able to sell for breakeven or a gain and move on.
This was overpriced in ’03 and is overpriced today. The difference between today and 2003 is that the financing options are more sane and much more limited.
Bob, the real estate bubble really displaced a lot of people. A lot of people I went to high school with wanted to stay in their hometown when they had kids but the NW suburbs had gotten so expensive they couldn’t afford it so they moved farther NW and N into Lake County. Imagine being stuck in Algonquin or Lindenhurst with 2 or 3 kids in some crap townhome you bought at the height of the boom in 2006. ergh.
The problem for a lot of Big 10 northside city folk is that there are really only a handful of decent hoods to live in (with kids) and nearly everyone would live in them if they had the opportunity to. Unfortunately there just isn’t enough housing for everyone; so they move from southport to Downers Grove or Arl. Hts. because they can’t afford LP, because they would never move to any ‘hood in the city more than 2 miles from the lake. And quite frankly I don’t blame them. If I had a choice between the amenities of albany park vs. arl hts I think 90% of us would take arl hts.
Feel free to contact me at anytime on this listing – I represent the seller – just to comment on a couple of things, the property is a true 1600 sq/ft and this is direct from developer floorplans and brochures when originally purchased. As for living on Southport, what most of you do not understand is that since Southport is a commercial/residential street the lot sizes and zoning allows for larger square footage units – much larger then you would see on any side streets. The school district is Blaine which is one of the strongest in the city – since you are having trouble finding this information, the web site is http://schoollocator.cps.k12.il.us/ to look up any home school by address.
As for the property, feel free to call me anytime to view the property at 773.517.6026 so you can actually see the full detail, finishes, space, etc…. might be helpful rather then commenting without the exact details.
Thank you.
HD,
LV used to be the ghetto. I hear this from old timers there all the time, yet somehow it transformed, gentrified and prospered (LP too apparently but I have less heresay on that).
Maybe if enough of these folks instead of viewing it as Albany Park vs. Arlington Heights viewed it as living right near N Center hoods like AP would have a decent shot at gentrification as well.
Scoffing at LP/LV real estate prices then moving to the ‘burbs is a pretty dumb way to view things. If they hadn’t paid 450+k for a residence in a prime hood but instead paid half that for a livable but not yet as amenity laden hood they would be able to send their kids to good private schools.
Instead they choose to drink the RE Kool Aid and loaded up on RE debt. Also lets not forget for most of these 450k+ places you really need a two earner family so mommy won’t be staying home raising the kiddos either. Again they drank the RE Kool Aid and never considered what lifestyle sacrifices they might have to make if living there long term as most never really had a plan beyond a few years anyway.
‘If they hadn’t paid 450+k for a residence in a prime hood but instead paid half that for a livable but not yet as amenity laden hood they would be able to send their kids to good private schools.”
This evidences a lack of info about what the “good” private schools in Chicago cost–two kids (note–two) in the good private schools (if they get in, which is a meaningful if) is the rough equivalent of annual P+I for a $500k mortgage (at 6%–over $40k per year). So, if Catholic school (~$12k per year for 2 kids) isn’t an acceptable option, then you either (a) are paying like you have a $750k mortgage to live in a marginal area or (b) move to an attendance area where the kids need not go to a private school–either in the ‘burbs where you might be able to find a nice house for that $3500/month or in the city where that *extra* $3500/month might get you a house you can live in.
“If I had a choice between the amenities of albany park vs. arl hts I think 90% of us would take arl hts.”
Yeah, and if I had a choice b/t Englewood and Winnetka, I’d choose Winnetka. It’s a false dichotomy, HD.
If you were talking *solely* about the schools, sure, I doubt anyone here, all else being equal (which it can’t be), would send their kids to Arlington Heights HS (whtever it’s called) instead of Schurz. But AH as a place to live over AP? Not necessarily.
“How many kids above stroller age do you see in relation to the stroller set? I’m guessing not too many.”
Bob, if the kids are above stroller age, it’s reasonable to think they are probably at one of these schools we’ve been talking about, and not with mommy durning the day… That’s why we don’t see them.
312forever, thanks for the clarification.
“anonny, do you have a serious thought on this subject. Your comments are so misinformed about this area it is laughable…” Gee whiz Jason R, that’s some mighty fine ad hominem work…and we all know the quality that typically attends such invective:
1) “The school distric for this unit I think is Blaine, which is one of the best CPS schools.”
As 312forever notes, the district is Hamilton. But beyond the misinformed notion that the district is Blaine, I’m not so sure that being “one of the best CPS schools” (be it Blaine or Hamilton) is necessarily conclusive evidence of quality. (Whereas describing Alcott or Nettelhorst for elementary and Lincoln Park for high school as one of the best CPS schools would not depend on the fact that the CPS is, for the most part, not very good.)
2) “As for second bedroom, who said a bedroom has to only have one entrance door. French doors are just fine. People can hang a curtain or something else so that you can’t see through the glass, it is not uncommon at all.”
Why, of course they can! While they’re at it, perhaps they could use a tie-dye sheet festooned with dancing Cubby bears as a curtain, which would nicely compliment their futon. But for now, the current owners of this half-million dollar residence appear to have made the entirely sensible (in my humble opinion) decision to use that room as a nice office.
Does anyone know approximately how much a deeded residential parking space is worth in the Lakeview area? $40k? $50k? More? Other condo properties are available, but they do not include parking?
And to clarify, yes, Blaine is indeed one of the few schools in the CPS that would not depend on the fact that the CPS is, for the most part, not very good.
“Blaine is indeed one of the few schools in the CPS that would not depend on the fact that the CPS is, for the most part, not very good.”
What falls in the in-between, in your judgment? My view is that there are the good schools (excluding selective enrollment, a couple dozen), a handful that have prospects for becoming good (based on a shift in local demo, and assuming people don’t/can’t move), and the balance is somewhere b/t “safe” (but not “good” in any normal sense) and horrible.
I guess if one defines down “good” to mean “not dangerous”, but I don’t know anyone who does that.
Anon(tfo) assignment desk:
Do you know anything about Peterson Elem in North Park? The hood is appealing, though a long trip for this downtown worker. Based on CPS stats it seems not-so-bad–my currently nonexistent kids are anxious….
According to Freakonomics it’s not even the school that matters the most but parent involvement and amount of books that you have at home. Really how much does the school can change in one’s life? Is it that important or just something that parents are going crazy about?
“Really how much does the school can change in one’s life?”
Huh? Re-post, please. I’ve read it 6 times and still have no idea.
“it’s not even the school that matters the most but parent involvement”
But, in CPS (and in the ‘burbs, too), parental involvement is pretty closely tied to school quality. The really sucky schools have very little parental involvement, the really good ones have lots of parental involement with both the kids and the school. Which is why changing demo can rapidly change a school.
“Is it that important or just something that parents are going crazy about?”
Both?
312forever,
i am a product of CPS, and i can honestly say to stay far far far away from the average or slightly above average CPS schools.
“Really how much does the school can change in one’s life? Is it that important or just something that parents are going crazy about?”
BASIC edjumakationz is very critical to 90% of kids
anon (tfo),
Sorry, English is not my first language.
“Really how much does the school can change in one’s life?”
I mean that school is only the first step in an education and career. University is more important and now not even university but grad school for lot of professions. Plus smart kid with parents who care about education would do good at any decent school anyway.
Groove77
Did you go to magnet or neighbourhood school? how would you say your education in CPS was compared to education of your college classmates who went to private or suburbian schools?
Thanks! I only went to grad school in US so I am trying to figure out how school education system works.
“According to Freakonomics it’s not even the school that matters the most but parent involvement and amount of books that you have at home.”
I would argue mendellian inheritance (your DNA). Still being a kid once myself I remember what an effect my friends had on me. Kids are influenced by their peer group even more than their parents in their formative years and it might not just be the lacking quality of the school it could also the friend influence factor.
If your kid falls in with the “not going/caring about college” crowd theres really little you can do to stop them from not going or failing out. Having been to a big state school for undergrad with a graduation rate of ~50% I can say that these people are very common.
“average or slightly above average CPS schools”
Well, when the average is sooo low, of course you need to aim higher. In ’07, there were 40-some CPS Elems that had 50% of the kids scoring over the statewide average; the same rank among ‘burban elems was ~78% of the kids above average.
Now, (1) not that testing is everything, but it ain’t nothing, and (2) 4 of the top 5 *statewide* were CPS magnet/gifted schools, and 10 of the top 50, including 3 “neighborhood” schools–Edgebrook, Bell, Oriole Park.
And in partial answer to my cousin anonymous, Peterson Elem is one of the above (statewide) average CPS elems. It was #35 in CPS in ’07. Don’t know anything about the trend, but I doubt it’s heading down; the big question is if the people who bought/are buying (not just renting, tho if people with kids are renting there instead of 4 blocks over in another attendance area, that’s a good sign, too) inside the attendance area (1) have/plan to have young kids, and (2) won’t insist on sending said kids to catholic school. If so, I would expect the school to get better.
Bob,
During teenage years – may be I would agree with you that peers are getting more important than parents. But in elementary school?
“I mean that school is only the first step in an education and career. ”
As Bob notes, a lot of it is about peer group. If you’re at a school where all (or nearly all) of the other kids have parents who care, it makes a tremendous difference.
Does this mean that kids at “bad” schools can’t thrive (or even use it as motivation to succeed)? Of course not. But, you, as a parent, have a much easier job when the school helps make education a priority. But your personal expectation setting is reinforced rather than diminished and things look possible rather than impossible.
Plus, your kids get to meet other parents who are successful doing a variety of different things–people you wouldn’t (necessarily) meet yourself. And those parents are less common at the poorer schools.
@tfo–thanks, man, that helps some. Gotta say your advocacy for CPS has been mind-expanding for me…. this site is a hell of a resource for our city.
“your advocacy for CPS has been mind-expanding for me”
Just touting my book, man. We’re in the city ’til (at least) high school (hoping for thru HS, but I’m optimistic, not crazy) unless something unforeseen happens–and then I’d need to sell my house. The more people who buy in to CPS, the easier that would be.
It really isn’t advocacy for CPS, it is advocacy for the magnet schools (which, at all levels, are actually pretty darn good).
I fully plan on living in the city and I’d like to send my kids to a public magnet. However, if they don’t get into a good magnet off they go to private school!
Oh, and for those don’t realize, some areas of Lakeview are actually within range of more magnets than some areas of Lincoln Park. It is all rather complicated but basically you have a better chance in the lottery if you live within 1.5 miles of the magnet (regardless of what your attendance district is).
So FWIW, this place should be within the local magnet lottery for Blaine even if it isn’t in the Blaine attendance block.
Just don’t forget to price in that risk, kp.
It was overlooked by many in the bubble.
“It really isn’t advocacy for CPS, it is advocacy for the magnet schools”
Nope. Kid(s) go/es to non-magnet CPS.
As I say again and again, there are about a dozen neighborhood schools that are good enough K-8 to buy in the attendance area, *right now*. There are another ~2 dozen that are either that second tier of good-for-CPS/okay-statewide or that have improved greatly in recent years and *should* get/continue to get better based on neighborhood demo, and even if they don’t, it won’t be a school that’s an impediment to a bright/hard-working kid.
Realize–if a school isn’t full based on attendance area attendance, it’s open to non-local students. Mostly, the “good” schools are bordering on over-full with locals (and cheaters, who claim to live with a relative). So, folks staying put can change a school w/o anything dramatic happening, it just takes a few years.
“It is all rather complicated but basically you have a better chance in the lottery if you live within 1.5 miles of the magnet”
And CPS will avoid giving a direct answer to this, unless the question is asked with specificity. Altho, it is pretty clear if you read the stuff.
I don’t think CPS avoids giving an answer, it’s just a bit convoluted to understand the distinction between the different types of school and their enrollment processes.
There is a decent FAQ here and other info on the CPS site:
http://www.selectiveenrollment.org/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=72694&type=d&termREC_ID=&pREC_ID=121694&rn=68308
Those of you who keep up with local news will recognize the recent controversy surrounding the last item (although the case pertains to SELECTIVE ENROLLMENT HIGH SCHOOLS, whose procedures differ from magnet or magnet cluster elementary schools)
As G, anon, and others have mentioned here many times, it pays to do your homework on this (and obviously most during the bubble did not)
“I don’t think CPS avoids giving an answer,”
Well, they will permit people to believe there is no proximity issue, even when asked indirectly about it (i.e., a question which evidences no idea that proximity helps will not elicit an answer of “w/in 1.5 miles you have a better chance”). Better?
I don’t doubt there could be deliberate obfuscation when dealing with certain people, anon (though ignorance is probably a more likely cause).
But, on the other hand, it may be the person asking is inquiring about magnet cluster schools (which do NOT have a proximity lottery), as opposed to magnet schools, which do. Blaine, e.g., is one of the former but not the latter, and therefore outside its attendance area boundaries, place of residence should not make a difference, to my knowledge.
I know we’re getting off the topic of the condo, so I won’t continue the discussion unless Sabrina thinks it’s relevant enough (and for the record, I do, since kp’s post above indicates there is some confusion about the process).
312forever,
to answer your question,
i do feel that my private and most suburban school counterparts had a huge leg up on me in college.
the othe question,
for elementary school i went to one neighborhood schools and then i went/got in to Magnet/Academy that was in the top 10 in my day, now top 25.
For high school i went to 5 different schools, the first high school was a top 5 CPS high school. the rest were all down hill from there.
how i graduated High School is a mystery.
now i had very involved parents, mom on the PTA and also help on every field trip. Dad coached my little league. so how did i end up screwing around so much and getting kicked out of schools?
so on the CPS issue i am jaded, i feel CPS let down me and my friends.
“Just touting my book….”
That’s everybody, here and in the real world too. Still–dig that dialectic–you can learn a lot.
312foreva,
also see my previous rants about cps
http://cribchatter.com/?p=7160#comment-42728
Groove77
Thank you very much for your answers and the link. I really appreciate it.
Hm, given the offensive and completely off-topic posts in other threads, I don’t see any reason to avoid spelling this out for people, hopefully it is helpful:
Magnet schools (which, save for 9 exceptions, do NOT have attendance boundaries) are required to draw 30% of their student population from their immediate area. Therefore, when this quota is not met, a magnet school conducts a proximity lottery before its regular lottery. The proximity lottery is only necessary if the 30% threshold has not been met. Magnet cluster schools, which are essentially neighborhood schools which ALSO draw students from outside their area via application and lottery, do NOT have proximity lotteries. This is because, as an attendance area school, it will always be well above 30% neighborhood students anyway.
What this means for the home buyer: You should concentrate ONLY on the attendance area (though note well, the boundaries can be redrawn) the house falls in, and to a MUCH lesser extent, the magnet elementary schools within a 1.5 mile radius (2.5 for high schools). You can find the att area school at schoollocator.cps.k12.il.us, as Jeff correctly notes, and yes, this unit is IN Blaine – also check the zone maps here: http://www.cps.edu/Schools/Find_a_school/Pages/findaschool.aspx), but always confirm current boundaries. You should pay no attention to the magnet CLUSTER schools around. The fact that a unit is close to (but not IN) Blaine matters not at all…and if a realtor(R) tries to convince you otherwise, you should regard it with deep suspicion and do your due diligence, as always.
And while there’s plenty to complain about regarding CPS and its bureaucratic entrails, most of these procedures actually have to do with federally-mandated court orders. Google CPS desegregation consent decree.
“as Jeff correctly notes, and yes, this unit is IN Blaine”
Easy enough error, as the west side of SP is in Hamilton.
And, as you note, the boundaries do change and I would think this is a potentially (tho unlikely) “at risk” area for re-mapping.
thank you roma great work!!!!!!!
i dont think the school thing is off topic, its a major decision in the home buying process
I am hoping that now most people are stuck in their homes and cant flee to the burbs, that they are going to make the best of their district school and CPS will become better and better.
I apologize about the school boundary mistake – I used map from Elementary and Preschool Directory, not CPS website. Map is not that precise and this condo is right on the border.
Groove77
I agree that CPS and attendance areas in not off topic in RE forum.
I just got call from CPS – my issue was resolved! We got into magnet pre-K program, but it’s new school so I am still little bit worried. I can write an update in few months if anybody would be interested.
Changing boundaries are hard to predict (they are subject to strategic, political, and financial pressure), but you’re right that being on the edge of an area means you are at greater risk for exclusion IF there is a change.
Roma:
Thanks for all your great information about the schools. This is not off-topic as many parents are looking for just this kind of information when they’re purchasing properties.
I know I appreciate all the insight.