Looking for a Vintage Bucktown Brick Cottage? 2110 N. Hoyne
We’ve been chattering about a bunch of Bucktown homes lately. This 1891 brick cottage at 2110 N. Hoyne recently came on the market.
The listing says it was renovated less than 5 years ago and the study can be converted into a 3rd bedroom.
Is this vintage cottage listed for under $600,000 a “deal” for Bucktown?
David Wolf at @Properties has the listing. See more pictures here.
2110 N. Hoyne: 2 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 2 car garage, no square footage listed
- Sold in April 1999 for $240,000
- Sold in February 2004 for $370,000
- Currently listed for $595,000
- Taxes of $6,864
- Central Air
- Skylights
- Bedroom #1: 16×13
- Bedroom #2: 13×13
love it.
Nice, but far from a “deal” at $600K.
Cute place, but something tells me it’s not going to sell for $595k
The first floor is below grade, notwithstanding the appearance from the photo. No basement, so the storage space it tight, and the HVAC and water heater are probably behind that door in the kitchen.
And the house is short–about 32′–so plenty of space to expand, even tho the lot is only 100′ deep.
Nice central-BT location, but I don’t like being at the end of the alley T, and it’s a hike to the Blue Line. And it’s a bit rich, but I’d still much prefer this to a 3-br condo for $500k (or even $400k).
Six mortgages in 5 years – talk about strangling the golden goose. CCRD is sometimes tough to interpret from a computer screen but I think I see a $474k first and a $62.5k second for a total of $526,000 in mortgages. Shortly after buying at 100% financing this seller heloc’d another $150k into renovations (anontfo what’s your opinion? 150k?).
You see it’s people like this who are causing the real estate depression. They cannot afford to sell. They cannot bring money to the table to close. They price their houses at these unrealistically high prices; now they’re stuck. These are zombie sellers. This is the other half of our economy’s problem. This seller cannot and probably will not ever go below $526k….so this house will sit on the market forever .. meanwhile the resale market nationwide comes to a virtual standstill … and the distress sale market picks up where the resales cannot reach because seller like this are zombie, underwater, the undead, FB’s…whatever you want to call them.
“The first floor is below grade”
Knock off $100K just for that. I’d never buy a house with primary living space below grade, and many others won’t either.
Now that we’re seeing single family homes going for under 400K in northside neighborhoods near the lake, I think people in Bucktown and Wicker Park are going to be hard pressed to get more than 500K for modest-sized single family homes, no matter how nicely they’ve been rehabbed. Of course, I’m sure some people love that area and don’t care what stuff is selling for in Uptown or Edgewater or North Center because they actually want to (or need to) live further west. But those people are few and far between, I think.
One step down from the front door = $100k of value? lame.
“This seller cannot and probably will not ever go below $526k”
Plus 6% (maybe 5). @Prop needs to get paid, too. So $560k.
“a $474k first and a $62.5k second”
Of course, they may not have drawn the whole $62.5k–if they did a bunch of the work themselves, who knows? If your mortgage salesguy says “take a HELOC for free”, why wouldn’t you? Especially if they’re an acquiantence who will make more money for closing it and they were *always* free in 05-06-07. If that is the case, the floor is $504k, which seems a *lot* more likely (esp. b/c it fits conforming max–I’d like their chances better at FHA levels, but facts-is-facts).
It’s also fairly likely that the 99-04 owner did some work on it, too, so they may have bought it when it wasn’t a total dump (which it probably was in 99).
When was that $474k first? That would indicate an appraisal of $592.5 at that time. I don’t think the ask is crazy, but if they want to sell soon, they’ll need to be prepared to take less.
brad-
either way 600K for this isn’t a deal.
What’s up with all the academy’s listed for the schools? those don’t really sound like CPS schools.
$3100/month for mort. and taxes seems high for a 2/2.5. Especially with $120K downpayment
a) What is a cottage? (Also, what is a bungalow? I never know what these terms mean; they seem to be terms of art.)
b) What is wrong with living space being below grade by 2-3 feet IF the ceilings are high and the windows large, so that while you are inside, it does not “feel” below grade?
“One step down from the front door = $100k of value? lame.”
“What is wrong with living space being below grade by 2-3 feet IF the ceilings are high and the windows large, so that while you are inside, it does not “feel” below grade?”
This is Chicago. Heard of basement flooding? Ever been in a flooded finished living space and have to attempt to repair the damage and eliminate the mold? I have, and I won’t do it again.
HD – It really is impossible to estimate how much exactly was spent in renovations without seeing before pics. Just a random guess from an experienced rehab specialist – $50k – 120k depending on how much work they performed themselves. Also it depends on how much of the interior structural work was performed – did they do it themselves or was it outsourced?
For a home that was priced, in this market, @ $299k ten years ago I would not have put more than $75k in it to make a decent profit.
I agree with you JPS – there is no elevation at all and during a storm like the one in Sept., this place would suffer major damage.
I too have repaired numerous finished ground level homes that have been flooded (basements I no longer bother with)and it is just not worth the $$ you need to invest to bring it back to pre-flood conditions.
I too…never again!
Kenworthy,
Your best bet is wikipedia them to see pics and what they refer to when you see bungalows and cottages. There are different styles of them. Here are the links.
Bungalow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungalow
Cottage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottage
most homes in the area of the city are below grade. every one on my block, new and old construction, has below grade finished space. I never knew why that was not the case in Lincoln Park when I lived there, but over in Bucktown/WickerPark/Uk Village it is the norm.
I wonder how much of this is neighborhood-specific. I live below-grade in Hyde Park, and in the twelve years I’ve been here, it has never flooded. (I have plaster walls and oak floors, which have been here since the building was built in 1924, so I think I would know if it had ever flooded). And I’ve never heard anyone talk about flooding in our basements in our building (which are the same grade as my unit). I have 9 1/2 foot ceilings, with huge windows, and never feel like I’m in a basement.
I would be very distressed were it to flood, of course. I even tried to buy flood insurance, and you literally cannot buy it for below grade dwellings at any price (which I’ve complained about on this site before). Knock on wood that I keep dry…
“I wonder how much of [the flooding issue] is neighborhood-specific.”
All of it; however, the design of the sewer system makes it a potential problem for much of the city. If you get 3+ inches of rain in less than a hour on your block, you might have a problem in a house that *never* had a previous problem. But 3+ inches in less than a hour is a really, really rare occurence in Chicago and generally very localized, so it just doesn’t get tested everywhere.
” even tried to buy flood insurance, and you literally cannot buy it for below grade dwellings at any price (which I’ve complained about on this site before)”
Isn’t the major risk sewer backup, rather than infiltration**? Will they not sell you sewer-backup coverage b/c you’re entirely below-grade? We have the coverage.
**other than the low-lying areas along the north branch.
Kenworthey,
Craftsman Style – (My favorite style) are influenced by the Arts and Crafts movement of the 1930’s. Usually they are built with wide front porches that have roofs supported by columns. They are constructed with stucco, stone and rough-hewn wood.
Bungalow – An offshoot of the Craftsman style, a bungalow typically features a compact footprint and a wide, covered front porch. Usually one story, I think of them as a poor man’s Craftsman style home.
Cottage – Cottages are compact homes, usually very narrow buildings that have a small ‘footprint’. They are not neccessarily small houses as they can be either single or two floors that make use of every inch.
“What is wrong with living space being below grade by 2-3 feet IF the ceilings are high and the windows large, so that while you are inside, it does not “feel” below grade?”
Besides flooding (which i know many friends/colleagues what have you who have had them) I also don’t car for them because of privacy and security reasons. yes, if someone wants to break it, I’m sure they will find a way, but simply having people walk by constantly and cars zoom past would be enough for me as well. I like to be up at least 5 or so feet.
Overall though, I think the house is pretty nice. Seems a bit dark, and yes, you could add a third bedroom on that 3rd floor, but it will cost you 10-12k to do it. There needs to be a closet added and plenty of drywayy work around those fun ceiling angles. I’m sure there is a way that you can have a bedroom up there and still preserve the “family area” that steps out onto what is likely a deck.
The basement in my building flooded the summer of ’07; my landlord says its a once in every 20 year occurrence; it was only a few inches but it smelled like mold for months. That summer afternoon it rained real hard for like 2 hours and took down a bunch of trees all over the city.
I have sewer backup insurance on my duplex down. However, I don’t think I really need it due to the design on the below grade portion of the sewer. There really is no way for it to back up, since the system is closed off from the sewer with an ejector pump system.
“The basement in my building flooded the summer of ‘07”
Yeah, they forgot to open the valve to the deep tunnel (so the rumor goes…we had ~6 inches (in an unfinished area) that all drained in ~5 minutes **while the rain was still falling and the street still backed up**).
“I’m sure they will find a way, but simply having people walk by constantly and cars zoom past would be enough for me as well. I like to be up at least 5 or so feet. ”
Plus there are two different types of crime: theres planned, targeted crime and then theres crime of opportunity (which I think is much larger as drug addicts don’t tend to plan ahead that much). Simply not having your windows at street level showing your belongings largely cuts down on crimes of opportunity and even targetted crime.
One day you’re blinds are down and you’re watching your plasma TV and a criminal walks or lives nearby and sees it, well he’s going to remember theres a plasma in there when you go on vacation and will figure out your work schedule pretty quickly. 9-5er? Might as well leave the door unlocked for him.
I lived in a loft 6 steps below grade in Uk Village, I never once had a problem with water, including last summer when the storms were so bad the tornado sirens were on. As long as there is a good flood prevention system in place (there was here), you are fine.
Incidentally I never had a problem with safety either, and I’m a young single female. I’m not saying crime doesn’t happen, and everyone should be cautious, but living in fear isn’t going to get you anywhere.
Only 2 bedrooms is a deal breaker for the price point. Even on a 32’x25′ footprint with 2.5 stories, I see little point in only having 2 bedrooms.
Just checked my insurance policy: looks like I’m covered for “water backup or sump pump overflow.” I’m assuming “water backup” would include a back up of the sewer during a storm.
As for security/safety, anyone on the ground floor who doesn’t have bars on their windows and an electronic security system is asking for trouble. But with those things, I just don’t see what the big deal is.
Are you covered for full loss on this? My carrier would only write $5K max (I think) for below grade water damage. Not remotely close to the probable loss in a finished living space.
“Just checked my insurance policy: looks like I’m covered for “water backup or sump pump overflow.” I’m assuming “water backup” would include a back up of the sewer during a storm.”
“My carrier would only write $5K max (I think) for below grade water damage.”
Under standard coverage, makes sense. Should be able to get a policy rider that ups the coverage significantly.
brad, that depends on what happens if the city sewer fills and your ejector has nowhere to pump into. Not all fixes work as planned. I had a check (one-way) valve on an unfinished basement south of this place that just backed water up through the floor whenever the valve “worked” due to cracks in the old drain line. Over 2 feet on a couple of occasions. Nothing like seeing your new washer and dryer floating in the darkness. I was always told it was due to “very old street sewers” in that part of West Town.
All that being said, results vary widely when it comes to flooded basements in Chicago. Since it is either no problem, or a very big problem, I don’t see how finished below-grade space should be priced at any more than a fraction of above-grade.
This place probably costs a ton to heat as well. Below grade/no basement means that those hardwood floors are going to be ice cold in the winter. That exposed brick on the front wall is going to let a ton of cold through as well.
I lived on the bottom floor of a 2 flat similar to this (obviously, this is a SFH, but the frame was pretty much identical).
My place had dry wall all the way around – who knows what kind of insulation – but it was freezing. I had to wear 2 pairs of socks in the winter, and lots of clothes. It was a nightmare when it got really bad out.
And if this is like my building, it’s not a foot or 3 below grade. More like 5 feet.
Really bad deal.
“And if this is like my building, it’s not a foot or 3 below grade. More like 5 feet.”
Pics look like the bottoms of the windows are just below the sidewalk. I’d put it at about 3′, with a min of ~2.5′ and max of ~4′. Also fits with the relative level of floors compared to the house to the north.
The big issue here, for me at least, is that the below grade space is the primary living area. It’s not a “rec room” or separate garden apartment, which is what the below grade space typically is finished off as in these older WP/Bucktown houses.
As far as I can tell–and I just read the whole thing–the policy isn’t limited to a dollar amount below what the entire value of the policy is. But like all insurance policies, it is devilishly hard to make good sense of.
Eh, whatever. I’ve never heard of problems like this in Hyde Park, so maybe I’m safe.
Oh, also learned I’ve been paying twelve bucks a month to protect myself against “mine subsidence.” I think I can safely cancel that one. 😉
” I’ve been paying twelve bucks a month ”
$144 a year? That’s some ‘spensive coverage.
About 15 years ago Chicago installed “flow restrictors” at the street catchbasins, to slow stormwater rain flow into the street sewers. This in turn caused streets to flood sooner and deeper, because streets serve as secondary stormwater storage. But if streets flood, soon water is standing at all low elevations, and creeping into basement areas.
We had two basement floods in Chicago, from water running into the building through the basement door to the backyard. Friends in the neighborhood had water flowing in from their basement windows, as water puddled outside over the window sill height.
These flow restrictor caps are the reason why certain neighborhoods which never flooded during “100-year” (read: major rain storms) flood events. Now it seems that there’s basement water at least once every two years.
Don’t know why that particular area of Ravenswood Manor/Albany Park is now so flood prone.
When I hear “cottage” in Chicago, I think “coach house”.
anon–I meant $12 a *year*. Still too much given that I’m pretty sure there are no hidden mines below Hyde Park!
Architect–are there plans to pull out the flow restricters? If what you are saying is true, I can’t imagine why they’ve been left in. Is there some sort of politics story here?
Kenworthey: I definitely don’t know the full details, but I do know some fuzzy details. Anyone more knowledgeable than me, please correct.
I know the city has been under pressure to dump less waste water into the lake during big rains and flooding. When the sewer system and temporary holding facilities are at capacity, the city is basically forced to let stormwater flow into the lake and rivers untreated. This causes nasty pollution, potentially toxic waters, etc. My guess is that the flow restricters were installed as part of an effort to avoid this emergency dumping (or at least limit it).
One big project the city (county?) has undertaken to help this problem is the Deep Tunnel project. This project has basically repurposed some of the really old freight tunnels under Chicago to hold storm water when the other systems overrun their capacity. I know that the majority of the work on this project is complete, but most of the new storm water capacity hasn’t been “turned on” yet. I am fuzzy on why this is the case.
I am certainly not sure that this project will help the flooding situation in non-central neighborhoods of Chicago, but it theoretically could help. If the sewers can overflow into the deep tunnels, hopefully they’d be able to handle more water from the streets, which in turn would hopefully not flood neighboring basements.
Most of Deep Tunnel phase I is complete (after 30+ years). Its my understanding phase II is scheduled to wrap up around 2023 and will bring even more capacity online.
While you may not see the effects of phase I in your neighborhood consider that five years ago they used to discharge overflowing river wastewater into the lake about twice a year. Thats only happened once in the past five years.
Deep tunnel is a comprehensive project that services the Chicago area. It includes retention basins, reclaimed wetlands, underground storage, etc. An incredible amount of money has been spent on Deep Tunnel, lives lost, and it is still not complete. Deep Tunnel was criticized during the fall flood, but criticizers were always told that “things could have been much worse.”
“are there plans to pull out the flow restricters? If what you are saying is true, I can’t imagine why they’ve been left in. Is there some sort of politics story here?”
It’s a ‘hood by ‘hood issue. My block–the problem is sewer back-up, which flow restrictors makes better by reducing the volume in the pipes. Other neighborhoods, the problem is Arch’s–water flowing across land and into basements–flow restrictors makes this problem worse (or creates it where there was no prior issue) by holding water on the surface.
“Deep Tunnel project … has basically repurposed some of the really old freight tunnels under Chicago”
Not true; it’s a purpose built tunnel. Deeper and larger than the freight tunnels. Also carved out of solid rock.
“the majority of the work on this project is complete, but most of the new storm water capacity hasn’t been “turned on” yet.”
The Tunnel (actually 4 or 5 tunnels) itself is done and fully operational. The reservoirs at the end of the tunnels are not done. The reservoirs–scheduled completion, 2019–will provide most of the total capacity–something like 75% of the total, or 3+ times the current capacity.
Thanks for the clarifications, guys. Just found this today: http://www.mwrdgc.dst.il.us/plants/tarp.htm
It is a little dated, but explains the whole deep tunnel project well.
anon(tfo) – the picture is, in all likelihood, misleading. The camera angle was chosen to make it appear the building is closer to grade than it is.
My old building, and I suspect this one, was built prior to the city raising the streets. And the property owners have never raised the houses to grade.
Which means that you get full size windows on the bottom floor while still having the front door 4-5 feet below street level.
It’s not just stormwater flooding and sewer backup that you have to worry about in a building like this. You have to worry about the retaining wall that’s holding the street up. if it collapses, you could have problems. And if a sewer pipe or water main breaks, your house is going to turn into a swimming pool pretty fast.
or i could be wrong entirely. maybe this one was raised.
“the picture is, in all likelihood, misleading. The camera angle was chosen to make it appear the building is closer to grade than it is.”
I was working from Sreetview combined with the interior shot, not the sales picture of the front–which is obviously from an angle to make it look like it is *at* grade. Might be 5 feet, but it really looks more like 3.5′ to me.
If there was going to be water damage from a storm, it would have happened today-June 19, 2009!