Market Conditions: April Sales Jump 19.4% In Chicago As The Spring Market Heats Up
As we’ve already chattered about, April sales surged 19.4% compared to last year but was still under the tax goosed 2010 number.
From the Illinois Association of Realtors:
In the city of Chicago, April 2012 home sales (single family and condominiums) totaled 1,750, up 19.4 percent from 1,466 homes sold in April 2011. The city of Chicago median home sale price for April 2012 was $184,800, up 9.3 percent compared to April 2011 when it was $169,000.
2010 was when one of the tax credits was in play. You had to be under contract by the end of April (however, you didn’t have to close until the end of June.) Still, the tax credit in 2010 helped juice sales.
The median price data also appears to be messed up to me. I don’t have a median price of $169,000 for April of last year. I have $205,000- which means the median price fell, not rose, as the press release indicates. Or was this part of the messed up IAR data before they “fixed” it?
Does everyone else’s data match that of IAR?
Here are the sales statistics for April since 2007:
- 2012: 1,750 sales
- 2011: 1466 sales
- 2010: 1984 sales
- 2009: 1407 sales
- 2008: 1886 sales
- 2007: 2419 sales
Here are the median prices:
- 2012: $184,400
- 2011: $205,500 (??- IAR press release says it was $169,000 last year- but that’s not what I have from last year’s press release)
- 2010: $225,000
- 2009: $218,000
- 2008: $300,000
- 2007: $289,800
The realtors and housing experts quoted in the press release, however, don’t sound as “rah-rah” as I thought they might this month.
What gives?
“In the city of Chicago, a more than 19 percent increase in condo sales through April 2012 over the same time period last year is positive,” said REALTOR® Bob Floss, president of the Chicago Association of REALTORS® and Managing Broker/Owner of Bob Floss and Son Realty. “With rents in the city of Chicago increasing, paired with a limited supply of rentals available, renters are reviewing their options. Historically low interest rates and great opportunities in the market are compelling to both first-time and move-up buyers looking to spend their dollars wisely and own their own home.”
“The latest employment and housing data for April provide significant evidence of the close relationship between the recovery of the economy and the housing market,” noted Dr. Geoffrey J.D. Hewings, Director of the Regional Economics Applications Laboratory at the University of Illinois. “The good first quarter in the housing market paralleled the significant job growth in the economy; the disappointing economic performance in April is reflected in a less optimistic forecast for the housing market through the summer. However, house prices do seem to be stabilizing.”
April home sales in Illinois up 15.7% from a year ago; median prices stable across state [Illinois Association of Realtors, Press Release, May 22, 2012]
Volume is up, inventory is down. Prices still have a long way to fall, however. Amazing how prices fall, the sun still rises in the east, we’re still at in some place in the middle east….So many predicted ‘the end of the world’ if prices fell at all; yet here we are today, and everything is OK. The problem going forward is all the underwater homeowners who seems to be defaulting at a fairly steady pace. I regularly hear and see people strategically defaulting (or simply realizing that they’re forever in debt until the day they die) and they find ways to undo it all. Prices are back to the 2000’s in many areas all over cook county. Each and every person who bought during the boom has to deal with their unique situation.
I don’t think prices will fall any further in the GZ. Demand is there and banks are willing to allow reasonable short sales in these areas.
With strong contract activity I expect these sales gains to continue for a while – except that the inventory shortage should eventually negatively impact sales. Buyers can’t find what they are looking for.
So did G ever provide the April sales history back to the early 90s? I never could find it.
Purchase activity is definitely higher than it has been in a several years. From my perspective, refinancing seems to be falling off while purchases are picking up quite a bit.
I think people are realizing they can’t rent forever, prices are low, and so are interest rates. Lending guidelines have also gotten more favorable as well. A lot people are also feeling more confident. The 1% (really the 2-3%) aren’t doing so bad. It is hard to think it will get much better. Many of the people who would have bought three or four years ago are ready to buy now. I do think buyer”s wants and needs have changed though. The 1 bedroom and smaller apt-like 2 bedrooms still seem to be taking a beating, while 3 bedrooms are definitely hot right now. All my clients buying SF homes in GZ and more desirable innner burbs ($600-$1.2m) are finding it tough with multiple offers and lack of inventory.
There’s no lack of inventory only a lack of reasonably priced inventory. Too much overpriced by 100k or needs significant updating priced as if it has already been updated.
Most of what is for sale is unreasonably priced or needs an insane amount of work to become liveable. Most buyers don’t have $50-100K in extra cash sitting around to fix places up to the standards they want. It’s pathetic how awful the inventory in the market is.
Buy now or be priced out forever!
(First)
” Too much overpriced by 100k or needs significant updating priced as if it has already been updated.”
Agreed. On the Realty Reality Learning Curve, owners are finally starting to realize it’s not the boom anymore and prices do not have anywhere to go but up. However, they are not realizing that HELOCs and construction loans are not ubber easy to get either so someone buying at the top of their price range won’t have money to update.
HD, if a large number of homes are significantly overpriced or need updating, then should they really be considered available inventory? It seems like there are very few properties that meet the unicorn criteria that buyers want right now. The buyer demand looks like it is starting to exceed the availability of sellers with unicorn properties – the sellers who have the desirable properties and who are willing to sell at the lower price points. As a result, buyers are complaining about their not being any inventory or “deals.”
If its on the mls, it’s available inventory.
“If its on the mls, it’s available inventory.”
Exactly.
“All my clients buying SF homes in GZ and more desirable innner burbs ($600-$1.2m) are finding it tough with multiple offers and lack of inventory.”
Bingo. Inventory is very low at the starter home (sub 7 figure) in the suburb we are looking at. Two 900k homes that we saw sold as pocket listing within 25k of ask over the first weekend.
While open house shopping this weekend, we looked at a house and the agent for the builder suggested we check out another house the builder is rehabbing. He said they already had an offer and several other interested parties. I don’t know if that is Total BS, exaggeration, or he’s the exception to the rule. I do know that another home this builder put together a short while back went under contract before it was completely finished.
HD, maybe from a macro perspective, but not in the real world. If you are buying in OIP, do you care how many properties are listed for sale in Bucktown? No. You care about your unicorn criteria in OIP. Nothing more. If there are only a handful a properties listed that meet your criteria in OIP (for whatever reason whether it is price or being updated), then inventory is tight regardless of the broader market inventory numbers.
I find it hilarious that people think all buyers have some sort of “unicorn criteria”.
Also find it funny that it was stated that starter homes are under $700K. Kind of a high price point for a first-time buyer, no?
“Also find it funny that it was stated that starter homes are under $700K. Kind of a high price point for a first-time buyer, no?”
Not sub $700k, sub seven figure. So, $900k in this case.
My house was less than $100k and it just fine for me. anyone who wants to buy a $900k starter home is a doofus.
Every bubble does a head fake as it deflates. This bubble will be no different. Prices back to roughly 2000 is not a bottom. In 2000 the economy was the best it had ever been, with unemployment near zero. To think that prices will bottom out at the level they were at during the strongest economy of all time is illogical.
Are we talking about the same 2000? I remember the internet bubble bursting at that point. I remember the economy decelerating in 2000, and into 2001, and really going downhill after 9-11.
And I didn’t say that 2000 prices were the bottom, I said housing prices have a long way to fall; and merely that many areas are already back to the 2000 price levels as of today.
“To think that prices will bottom out at the level they were at during the strongest economy of all time is illogical.”
Awesome.. So i guess we will be filling up our gas tanks at about $1.00 – $1.25 a gallon soon.
“Awesome.. So i guess we will be filling up our gas tanks at about $1.00 – $1.25 a gallon soon.”
So long as you’re using your Jim Baker $20s, it’ll work at HD’s Speedway franchise.
Russ said:
“If you are buying in OIP, do you care how many properties are listed for sale in Bucktown? No. You care about your unicorn criteria in OIP. Nothing more.”
I guess Russ would know better than me, but I’m very, very skeptical that a lot of people target a single small area and refuse to consider anything else. Sure, someone might have a preference for OIP, but a preference is difference than an unshakeable, bottom line demand. If someone sees a house in OIP, and know they can get the same house for half price in an area with similar (or better) schools, crime, commute, etc., then the vast majority are going to look at that other area.
“but I’m very, very skeptical that a lot of people target a single small area and refuse to consider anything else.”
Generally, once someone has drilled down to a specific neighborhood, they usually only look at nearby/adjacent neighborhoods. i.e. Goldcoast & Old Town, Lincoln Park and Lakeview, Bucktown & Wicker Park. Rarely does someone look at South Loop and Belmont Cragin, for instance. There are always exceptions of course.
” If someone sees a house in OIP, and know they can get the same house for half price in an area with similar (or better) schools, crime, commute, etc., then the vast majority are going to look at that other area.”
Yeah, right Lisa. A wonderful, magical animal.
What’s OIP?
Old Irving Park
I know my criteria was a SFH with a door-to-door 30 minute or less commute via public transit (preferably on the CTA as to not be married to the Metra schedule). So we basically looked at houses that were close to CTA (and Metra) stops. So we looked a fair number of ‘hoods but were still fairly limited.
“” If someone sees a house in OIP, and know they can get the same house for half price in an area with similar (or better) schools, crime, commute, etc., then the vast majority are going to look at that other area.””
Yeah, I found that, it’s called the suburbs. It was a no brainer.
thumbs down for hd…people are funny with this city vs burbs battle. like star bellied sneetches or something
“like star bellied sneetches or somethin”
only if you have young kids will you get that right away.
HD may be obfuscating again because in this thread he’s claimed to paid less than $100K for his suburban home, which is equal to 1/2 [ a house in OIP, …with similar (or better) schools, crime, commute, etc]
so find a $200K OIP home that HD would like.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3932-N-Lowell-Ave-60641/home/13460540
Here ya go Icarus
“HD may be obfuscating again ”
Assume that 50% of what HD types is at least 50% false/contrary to his actual beliefs. This calculus should be done *after* ignoring all of his obviously sarcastic comments.
“Here ya go Icarus”
I, too, would like a “MAINTENANCE FREE” home without the burden of an HOA.
Any idea how that maintenance gets accomplished, HD?
“Any idea how that maintenance gets accomplished, HD?”
GNOMES IN THE BACKYARD COME TO LIFE AT NIGHT! THAT’S TRUE, I SWEAR. GRINGO HAS SCENE THEM TO.
sounds like gringo has been fedexing his finest.
Yeah I get 10 thumbs down when I said that it’s 1/2 the price for a comparable house in the suburbs vs. Old Irving. you know it’s all true. What I’ve been able to do has been pretty amazing actually, and my mortgage payment doesn’t even have a 2 as the first digit. I couldn’t even touch some crapshack on the wrong side of old irving for the price I paid to live in an equally comparable upper middle class neighborhood. Except that my neighborhood has fewer victorians…..boo hoo. The house next to me is a bungalow from the 20’s and a ranch from the 60’s on the other side. I’ve got finished sq footage in the 2,000’s, a yard, a garage, a short commute, a new kitchen, a completely renovate house, renovated bathrooms, a 12′ island with a drawer microwave; did I mention that my mortgage payment has a 1 as the first of four digits? My distance to the commuter train is walkable and my door to door commute increases by only 7 minutes each way. No brainer guys, sorry, i love the city, been here over half my life, but now with a family, I have no regrets moving to a close suburb. None whatsoever. I wish I could have stayed but the green zone is way more than what I’m willing to pay. and you are competing against so many people with higher incomes who are willing to do whatever they can just to get themselves into the GZ as if it’s some utopia. It’s not.
“1 as the first of four digits?”
At under 2k?
http://www.killerclips.com/clip.php?id=133&qid=1748
Did someone hijack HD’s account? Did he finally pull the trigger in Des Plaines or something?
“with higher incomes who are willing to do whatever they can just to get themselves into the GZ as if it’s some utopia. It’s not.”
In all seriousness GZ is mostly for transplants who think it’s the end all be all because it caters to the SWPL mating dance and amenities they prize pre-kids. They have no foresight of how their life will change once kids come along. It’s incredibly hard for me to muster sympathy for such people that buy and lose $$$. Mainly because I have friends with far less income who dodged the whole RE bullet due to their circumstance and seem happier than those caught up with status symbols.
Imagine stressing and slaving away at a stressful job to earn extra coin only to throw it away by overpaying for real estate. Bwahahaha status seeking hominids they are those monkeys are in their RE prison cage. A prison of their own device.
Bob – you can’t put a price tag on brunch in the GZ relative to brunch at IHOP. Junior can sleep in the den and go to CPS until 9th grade. Here is a brunch blog that may be of some assistance: http://chicagobrunchblog.com/restaurants/lincoln-park/
Good luck finding a good brunch in Skokie.
“Good luck finding a good brunch in Skokie.”
That’s insane I can’t imagine walking from Skokie all the way over to Harmony Grill! That would be quite a walk and my sandals would be quite worn. As worn as my sandals are trekking the 28 miles to north shore to work everyday. I mean it takes a few hours but hey.
LMFAO thank you for proving my point. (and yeah I was being literal on the the time and distance if not the modality).
Oh and traffic on weekends before 1-2pm ish? I have noticed myself it is minimal: it takes me under 20mins to go ~8 miles around town because the city is full of lemming idiots who roll out of bed around 11/don’t get in from the burbs until 1-2. Seriously 12:30pm it’s 20mins, 2:30pm and it’s 45.
Do you think your friends back in Oshkosh Wisconsin or whatever other bumblefvck town/state/burb you’re from think you’ve made it if you can walk to Harmony Grill, or do you instead think they snicker behind your back at what you’re paying to own a partial house while they have the real deal?
At 25 years old possibly the former. At 35 definitely the latter.
If you’re a grown adult who overpaid for GZ real estate for the amenity of walking to brunch at a Harmony Grill/Stanleys/etc I cannot understate enough how much you deserve to lose your ass on real estate because you’re a fvcking idiot of proportions I don’t have the verbal ability to express sufficiently/succinctly enough. These people should have never gotten low downpayment loans.
“Did he finally pull the trigger in Des Plaines or something?”
Yes.
“In all seriousness GZ is mostly for transplants who think it’s the end all be all…”
Great comment. Sometimes it’s a relief, a breath of fresh air, to go up to a place like Park Ridge and actually be around Chicagoland people who have lived their entire lives here, went to HS somewhere here, have roots in the metro area, remember past decades, etc. Anyone else tired of GZ transplants and Chicago immigrants asking you to repeat something? …or having to actually pause and think about how you’re going to phrase a basic comment so it’s understood by the person you know you have nothing in common with?
“Yes.”
Well I hope for his sake HD got his fill of brunches in Chicago because per PermaBear he is now forever barred from eating brunch at said places again. His membership has been revoked.
HD you may think you have the white picket fence & all but always remember you can’t roll out of bed at 1pm and walk over to Harmony Grill. Such brunch places are for the elites.
Also Permabear, I’ve always wondered why the brunches around town are such a great deal and so affordable. Could it be that the restaurants know their largest customer segment..is a little stretched on disposable income (for reasons unknown)? Bwhahaha
“No brainer guys, sorry, i love the city, been here over half my life, but now with a family, I have no regrets moving to a close suburb. None whatsoever. I wish I could have stayed but the green zone is way more than what I’m willing to pay. and you are competing against so many people with higher incomes who are willing to do whatever they can just to get themselves into the GZ as if it’s some utopia. It’s not.”
You won’t get any argument out of me HD. I’ve been telling people to buy in the inner suburbs for several years now. Lots of deals and the commutes are the same (or shorter) in most cases.
Everyone I know is buying in Oak Park. There are true starter homes there. I know someone who just bought a 3/1 (are going to put in a second bathroom) for just $265,000. It has a garage, stained glass, hardwood floors, decent kitchen. And they can still walk to the restaurants in downtown Oak Park (and public transportation.)
The people looking to buy SFHs in the GZ are, as Dan put it in another comment, those making a LOT more money. Not the starter home people. The people who are buying the $1.2 million houses all over Lakeview right now.
“The people who are buying the $1.2 million houses all over Lakeview right now.”
I can’t wait to see how this shakes out. They have built a LOT of these all through this bust. I have seen how quickly they throw them up which makes me suspicious of their construction quality. It’ll be interesting to see if demand keeps up. I know LV zipcodes have six figure incomes, but to afford these places comfortably you’d need solid 1%er income. I do wonder how many 900+k mortgages are behind these 1.2MM sales. And whether those families do indeed earn 1%er income (300k+).
Thoughts about Lagrange vs Oak Park?
How is Lyons vs Oprf Hs
Taxes should be lower?
Much less diverse I know – less granola
“Thoughts about Lagrange vs Oak Park?”
I like both towns and have friends in both. Oak Park is much more diverse. But both have nice downtowns with pretty good restaurants and a movie theater (and the standard upscale shopping centers.) Obviously, in Oak Park you can take the El (only metra in LaGrange.)
First, let me provide full disclosure by stating I grew up in Oak Park, so I may have a bias….but I think Sabrina has a pretty good assessment. I’d say OPRF is far better than Lyons though.
Also I think OP has a better location for commuting to both city or western burbs. LaGrange to me is a good commute west but not back into the city.
“Everyone I know is buying in Oak Park. There are true starter homes there. I know someone who just bought a 3/1 (are going to put in a second bathroom) for just $265,000. It has a garage, stained glass, hardwood floors, decent kitchen. And they can still walk to the restaurants in downtown Oak Park (and public transportation.)”
You have revealed your age and marital/child status with this comment. Anyone over 35 with children will realize that the fantasy of living “close to the city” but still far enough away to be in a suburb is really an idiotic decision (IF it is based on the premise that you will be able to go to the city all the time). The truth is that, once you have children, you become ensconced to a large degree in their life – not only do you not have TIME to go to the city as much as you expected, but you also don’t have the energy and desire – so why pay a premium to live in a close suburb for a smaller house rather than get a great big house with better schools in a traditional suburb (for the same price or cheaper?). It makes more sense to do the latter and spend a weekend a month downtown (renting a hotel and enjoying the sights) than living “close-by” and never ending up going into the city.
Clio, living close to the city saves on commuting time. A lot in some cases.
I feel terrible I’m banned from having brunch in the city.
Yes Bob, most of the gz worth 1.2 mil has 900k mortgages. Last night I ccrd’d a few houses in Lakeview and it was younger doctors, a newly minted big law partner power couple, etc. high incomes, few assets, lots of leverage.
I can’t say enough good things about Oak Park. Other than the rabid liberalism (which isn’t all that bad) it is a beautiful town. Extremely friendly residents. Very convenient commute to the city. Great schools. Five grocery stores. Restaurants, etc.
When I talk to friend who consider OP, the only reason they usually don’t move here is because the housing stock is older and getting larger houses that have been renovated usually busts their budget. OP isn’t cheap.
HD, so you don’t think putting $300k down is enough? Almost all these purchases are 20-30% down. With rates so favorable, why would you put more down if the bank doesn’t require it and it doesn’t change the rate in your favor?
Yes, most of the buyers of these properties are usually younger doctors, biglaw partners, consulting firm types, bankers, or upper middle management. Trust me when I say the most jumbo lenders put these borrowers through the ringer these days. One major lender wants to see 16 months CASH reserves post down payment closing costs. Some want 24 months.
“The truth is that, once you have children, you become ensconced to a large degree in their life – not only do you not have TIME to go to the city as much as you expected, but you also don’t have the energy and desire – so why pay a premium to live in a close suburb for a smaller house rather than get a great big house with better schools in a traditional suburb (for the same price or cheaper?).”
No Clio- you are revealing YOUR age and marital/child status.
Generation X and Y have working couples. You want to live closer to the city because BOTH parents are working and BOTH commute downtown. How about that, for starters? Who wants to do an hour commute (each way) when you have young children at home? Of course- if you work in Naperville, Joliet, Schaumburg etc. – then it makes more sense to live further out for commute purposes. But if you work in Chicago- the inner suburbs are the way to go. I never said that families will be going to Chicago every weekend or anything of the sort. Of COURSE they won’t be. But Oak Park isn’t really any different from some city neighborhoods (and probably better) in terms of local amenities (restaurants, coffee shops, a movie theater etc.) And you get better schools and more bang for your buck in terms of housing.
Like I said- you can still buy a starter home in Oak Park that is totally acceptable for under $300,000. You know an actual “starter” home. I’m not talking a 4000 square foot 5 bedroom house with a wine fridge. But it’s pretty near impossible to get a 2000 square foot 3/1 starter home in North Center, Lincoln Square or, heck, even Logan Square, that is move-in-able, for the same price. There really are some great deals in the inner suburbs right now. Anyone looking in River Forest? Prices are coming WAY down there.
Russ, I’m not saying that it’s not good enough; like Bob merely alluded to, behind million dollar home are equally as big mortgages. $900,000 isn’t a conventional loan, or even a jumbo – they are a category of loan all their own called superjumbos. Most borrowers take super jumbo loans to buy their million+ houses in lakeview, lp, etc. debt does not equal wealth.
“Oak Park is much more diverse”
not really, its pretty much black and white with a sprinkle of asian, thats all. Not what i consider diverse racially or culturally or economically or diverse in any other way.
OP people try to fly their “look at me my neighbor is a upper class black family that we are friends with and our kids play together” flag but i aint buying it and you shouldn’t either.
Sorry, Bob. I didn’t know you were so fond of IHOP brunch. Cool story that you can drive from North Aurora to Geneva in 20 minutes on Sunday morning.
Are the taxes in OP as ridiculous as the taxes in Evanston? What sort of fiscal shape is OP in?
I’ve argued this before. Plenty of Naperville commuters work in Chicago. The many express trains available for rush hour commute get you to and from the city in about a half hour. Pretty close to the time it takes coming in from Oak Park on the green line.
“But if you work in Chicago- the inner suburbs are the way to go.”
I don’t know Groove, OP is pretty tolerant and the residents are extremely friendly. I’ve seen plenty of Asians, Hispanics, Indians, etc. My whole block looks like Logan Square/Wicker Park refugees. Funny seeing a 40 year old guy with a full arm of tats walking his 6 year old to school with a Pitbull. I honestly was taken aback a little bit when I moved there by it. Having grown up in the south and been in many less diverse environments, I was a little shocked at how open minded the residents are in OP when it comes to other people. I don’t get that “you don’t look like you are from around here stare…” About the only area that OP isn’t tolerant imho is when it comes to politics.
In fact, I’d say some of the residents are so open minded about not stereotyping and accepting all they border on being naive, particularly given the surrounding areas.
Taxes seem like they run about 2-2.5% depending on property. They are high, but I’ve been pleasantly surprised with the public services. Plenty of cops all over the place. Clean streets. Fairly responsive Village Hall.
“The many express trains available for rush hour commute get you to and from the city in about a half hour.”
and we argued this before that the wait list for parking at the metra is 2 YEARS!!!!
and we argued this before that if you miss the express train then add another 30+ minutes to your commute
and we argued this before that you drive 15 minutes to the train stain and walk 10 minutes from union to the office adding 25 minutes to the 30 you clain
and we argued this before that i am still waiting for your daughters facebook link.
“I was a little shocked at how open minded the residents are in OP when it comes to other people. I don’t get that “you don’t look like you are from around here stare…””
That’s because you’re the exemplar below:
“look at me my neighbor is a upper class black family that we are friends with”
“In fact, I’d say some of the residents are so open minded about not stereotyping and accepting all they border on being naive”
LOL on that one, OP is too dang liberal it hurts my logical senses.
I will take your word for it, I am just a visitor in OP and dont see the day to day stuff like You. You do have to agree its “Upper Class” diversity, which is what helps it work.
odd story but i have a friend that has been on all kinds of depression meds for years. Once she moved to OP, she started leaving the house more and now goes for a walk everyday. she has been weened off the meds and is doing great. Its a beautiful area that a walk of a few blocks you will notice your mood improve.
So if you miss the first express train, it averages 20 minutes until the next express commuter train comes; if you can’t find a parking spot in one of the businesses that rent out spaces around the station, you can get dropped off, take the PACE bus, use one of the commuter shuttle lots or walk or ride a bike to the station. Its possible to live close to the station! I guess nobody in Oak Park has to drive to the station?
If I could destroy baby girl’s facebook page I would. I certainly wouldn’t promote it. Too many potential stalkers in all those “friends”. Which reminds me about how much I enjoyed the NASDAQ facebook IPO fiasco and the discussion it has created.
From Bob:
“In all seriousness GZ is mostly for transplants who think it’s the end all be all because it caters to the SWPL mating dance and amenities they prize pre-kids. ”
From Dan:
“Sometimes it’s a relief, a breath of fresh air, to go up to a place like Park Ridge and actually be around Chicagoland people who have lived their entire lives here…”
Whatever, hypocrites.
You both live in the GZ, so you have no credibility.
she should try skateboarding on hard wood floors
“I guess nobody in Oak Park has to drive to the station? ”
Russ rides a bike, and the people i know drive to the mars station.
but then those can also drive to work faster than you could take the metra to work on your “express” train.
also OP is just a prettier place the envokes (or evokes?) one to walk to places.
BTW, just kidding about the facebook. i honestly don’t know how i would handle having a hot daughter in the facebook camera phone era. i would need a good cardiologist that’s for sure.
Groove, it is definitely upper class diversity as a whole. But it is diversity nonetheless. Not too many upper income folks want to live around lower income people, regardless of race or liberal leanings. I did my time in the hood and never going back.
Walking around OP is definitely a good way to relax. Absolutely beautiful streets, trees, and architecture and you can walk for miles. The wife and I do it several times a week now that the weather is nice. Very few places allow you to walk so far with uinterrupted scenery.
So, people drive to the station either way, just a matter of how close you live to the station as to how much it adds to your commute. Also depends on where you work in the city relative to the train stop. If you work at the Sears/Willis Tower, your walk is shorter from Union Station than the green line.
In my experience, I would never choose to drive into the city. I know some people do, but I’ve always worked in the loop and find driving there during rush hour to be a nightmare.
Oak Park is nice, but Naperville has its Riverwalk, Centennial Beach and vibrant downtown shopping. Lots of places to walk or bike if you get the urge.
Oh, and I knew you were kidding about facebook, just felt like making a PSA. It sucks that kids sometimes have to learn things the hard way.
How are muni services in OP? Check out the LIBRARY! OMG
Are the taxes in OP as ridiculous as the taxes in Evanston? What sort of fiscal shape is OP in?
—
Taxes seem like they run about 2-2.5% depending on property. They are high, but I’ve been pleasantly surprised with the public services. Plenty of cops all over the place. Clean streets. Fairly responsive Village Hall.
Napperville is for lemmings.
Since we are discussing OP, what about RF?
Or is it effectively OPRF? or does RF have less granola feel?
Naperville is for kids.
Many complain about people from the North Shore, Naperville residents are some of the most unbearable I’ve met. Anywhere.
“I did my time in the hood and never going back”
i hear ya, only so much “keeping it real” a logical man can take.
“Very few places allow you to walk so far with uinterrupted scenery.”
northshore down sheridan is an even loooonger stretch, not as beautiful but darn close.
“Naperville has its Riverwalk”
agreed the riverwalk is very nice, but when i lived there i had to drive to get there so i could walk.
I joke about naperville, but it is nice. Its just that there is better places to live if you work in the loop. Now if i worked in elgin or scumberg or downers grove naperville would be on the shortlist.
actually i think naperville has the last Ponderosa left in the US, and thats huge for the groove
Milkster: I fail to see how/why I’m a hypocrite. Yes I live in the GZ but rent there. I would never drop 1.2mm+ on a real nice house there even if I could unless I was spectacularly wealthy when same house can be found in a nice safe area outside GZ for a fraction of that. Give me 80k & see how much longer I stay in GZ
I’ll take a similar home that also looks like its out of better homes & garden as my neighbors homes are for 60% less but not walkable to trendy brunch spots. Because I recognize the value of a dollar. Oh yeah in GZ you can’t guarantee neighbors hokes will look/stay nice.
Having an extra 700k on the mortgage to walk to trendy brunch spots– I don’t think sustained demand or the govt can save new SFH GZ valuations when they finally turn. Its gotten freakin’ insane in neighborhoods far enough from downtown.
Bob, you at home? i thought they block your internet at work?
Naperville has 140,000 residents. How many of them have you met? Could it be that YOU are the douchebag!?!
“Naperville residents are some of the most unbearable I’ve met.”
No at work on phone. They block nothing at work but my pc is too visible & I’m usually busier.
“Good luck finding a good brunch in Skokie.”
Jack’s on touhy
“Milkster: I fail to see how/why I’m a hypocrite.”
Because you complain about the SWPL ad nauseum, yet whether you rent or own, you still LIVE in the GZ, so there must be some appeal.
“Naperville has 140,000 residents. How many of them have you met? Could it be that YOU are the douchebag!?!”
Doubtful, the douchiest people live in Naperville. Actually, LP douches move to Naperville with their precious little ones.
GZ is where the singles are. Bob lives around boystown iirc. I think he is criticizing familys for living there bc the real benifit to him is other singles.
In a way I agree. Once your married with kids one of the greatest assets of the GZ, all the hot tail, becomes pretty much irrelevant. Maybe even a negative.
Vlajos, yours sounds like a personal vendetta. A certain element of bitterness comes through your judgments. In any case, stereotyping/hating on large groups is a very fascist quality.
And Groove, dunno where you lived, but Naperville is loaded with parks and many of the neighborhoods and subdivisions have been around long enough to have the leafy canopies like Oak Park.
The historic district has some beautiful architecture as well. Just like anywhere, including Oak Park, its best if you live within walking distance of the most desirable part of town. But there is plenty of parking if you aren’t.
http://naperville.wordpress.com/2007/06/22/heads-up-original-downtown-naperville-architecture-worth-the-neck-strain/
I have no vendetta. I am just speaking of the people I know in Naperville. They are truly unbearable. I think I’ve said this before, but if you’re going to live in a far flung suburb you may as well move to suburban Indianapolis or Cincinnatti, it’s cheaper and just as shitty.
Yet, CH, you have younger-ish high income families buying 1.2mm+ SFHs. Its totally non-sensical to me.
I’ve met people from Napperville who refer to it as the “City”.
Well, you are the only person I know who has said so. Being that you are one anonymous voice on the internet gives me reason to doubt your motives. Again, sample size please? I could say that everybody I ever met from (name your suburb) was a douchebag. The fact that I’ve only met two people could have something to do with it.
So I can’t help but think its me since I’m the only one from Naperville here, as far as I know. Perhaps one of your alter egos and I had a little dispute. Perhaps I offended you by making a joke about the Facebook IPO? Did you get filled at $42?
Bob, why do you care if youngish high income small family buys an expensive house?
Juliana, don’t be so sensitive. It’s fucking Naperville.
I wasn’t in on the Facebook IPO. Or any IPO for that matter.
“People?” More than one? Because I would never refer to Naperville as the city, but then I’m from another suburb originally so I know what the city is. But after living here for 15+ years, I have never heard a single person refer to anything but Chicago as “the City”.
“I’ve met people from Napperville who refer to it as the “City”.”
Manhattan is the City. Chicago is Chicago.
No, manhattan isn’t the city – LONDON is ‘the city’.
I could see a bumpkin from s. ill moving to naperville and telling the cowpokes back home they live in the city. not that it matters. who cares if you are an original star bellied sneetch or got your star from Sylvester McMonkey McBean. well, besides anonny who only counts elp as legit
“Naperville has 140,000 residents. How many of them have you met? Could it be that YOU are the douchebag!?!”
“Doubtful, the douchiest people live in Naperville.”
I don’t know if it will help with the juliana-vlajos kerfuffle, but I just wanted to note that, at least as a theoretical possibility, both statements could be correct.
Its where *I* live. You are painting a negative picture of who lives there. Why shouldn’t I take it personally? You know, everybody I know who lives around Wrigley field is a douchebag. I only know a few, but they are douchebags, so everybody in Wrigleyville must be one too.
You are acting like a cretin. Or a propagandist. Take your pick. In any case, its kind of like slander on a 140,000 people.
“Juliana, don’t be so sensitive. “
“No, manhattan isn’t the city – LONDON is ‘the city’.”
London isn’t the city, only the “City” is the City.
“I don’t know if it will help with the juliana-vlajos kerfuffle, but I just wanted to note that, at least as a theoretical possibility, both statements could be correct.”
I agree DZ.
Those bumpkins aren’t just from Naperville, they are from every Chicago suburb. If you are talking about people from the suburbs saying they are from Chicago when they meet people out of town, different story altogether. But they would just say “Chicago”, not “the city”. Naperville is too close to Chicago to be called “the city”.
“I could see a bumpkin from s. ill moving to naperville and telling the cowpokes back home they live in the city.”
Well at least you got it half right.
“I agree DZ.”
“You know, everybody I know who lives around Wrigley field is a douchebag. I only know a few, but they are douchebags, so everybody in Wrigleyville must be one too.”
That could also be true. Juliana, where did you live pre-Naperville?
Actually, the truth is that most everybody in the United States is a douchebag, so DB-ery is pretty inescapable. You would know.
“That could also be true. Juliana, where did you live pre-Naperville?”
Also, sorry to scorch any sensitive types if I go overboard with what was meant to be “good fun”. Been sharpening my claws over at the fight club (ZH), taking on the fascists. Testy times.
re: the juliana-vlajos kerfuffle…Could you fill out the info and report back to us
http://www.douchebagnamegenerator.com/
Naperville is so boring, paint watches *it* dry.
“Naperville is so boring, paint watches *it* dry.”
Just like Soviet Russia!
“Manhattan is the City. Chicago is Chicago.
No, manhattan isn’t the city – LONDON is ‘the city’.”
Both wrong… Compton.. where they keep it rockin!
Vlajos I care because they’re buying old frathouse rentals & tearing em down to make em. I know I’m an unlikely anti-gentrifier, but my sentiments combined with the amount of leverage being used make me sick to my stomach.
“Funny seeing a 40 year old guy with a full arm of tats walking his 6 year old to school with a Pitbull.”
It’s not funny, it shows the utter degradation and decline of the town and the society there. Oak Park is full of some of the most amazing and refined churches in all of Chicagoland. The WASPs who built them had culture, now replaced by the description of the people there now. Even the Catholic churches in OP are tremendous as Cardinal Mundelein wanted first-class architecture to fit in with the civilized culture there. Ironically, it’s that very culture and architecture that attracts the Logan Sq. refugee people today, even though the liberals, homosexuals, atheists, etc. could never reproduce what made it attractive in the first place.
“stereotyping/hating on large groups is a very fascist quality”
Huh? It’s a very revolutionary/leftist quality.
“a full arm of tats … shows [] utter degradation”
I know another group that considers tattoos a degradation …
“Once your married with kids one of the greatest assets of the GZ, all the hot tail, becomes pretty much irrelevant.”
sorry when your married with kids you want to live in an area where the eye candy is spectacular.
1. its all you got left
2. keeps your wife on her toes (and you too for a matter of fact)
3. seriously eye candy is all you got (if staying faithful)
““stereotyping/hating on large groups is a very fascist quality”
Huh? It’s a very revolutionary/leftist quality.”
Yeah, gotta agree with Dan. Ustasi really only picked on minorities, because hating the majority would be too risky.
“…but my sentiments combined with the amount of leverage being used make me sick to my stomach.”
I agree with you here.
Every time I’m interested in a condo, I comb through the CCRD records of every owner in the building.
I don’t want to co-own with a bunch of people who are steps away from default.
The leverage going on would astound you.
It’s extremely rare that someone makes a 20% downpayment.
I’m looking at something now where the last owner bought for 75K but refinanced several times and ended up with a loan of 150K which he walked away from.
He rented the place to a tenant and the listing agent convinced him to jingle mail the keys.
He said he “CFK’d” him – (Cash For Keys.)
“And Groove, dunno where you lived, but Naperville is loaded with parks and many of the neighborhoods and subdivisions have been around long enough to have the leafy canopies like Oak Park.
The historic district has some beautiful architecture as well”
yes but still not the same, even the “historic distric” with its *few beautiful homes.
i lived closer to warrenville side. well the girlfriend i lived with lived there, as i would not consciously pay money to live in naperville
“Every time I’m interested in a condo, I comb through the CCRD records of every owner in the building”
helmet/dan only does it to make assumptions from the last name of the owners.
i dont have to work that hard as i centralized my bigotry. any lazier i may outsource it to HH/dan on a Joey Z fee type basis
what’s wrong with atheists?
“what’s wrong with atheists?”
I think danhofer feels they don’t build enough churches.
“I think danhofer feels they don’t build enough churches”
more churches you can never have enough cowbell, oops enough churches.
Homosexuals are known for their bad taste?
Dan, tell Bob to eat fewer bitter foods and you might find it less offensive.
60 years ago Oak Park was full of smug, self congratulatory jagoffs. Looks like nothing has changed. At least in the old days you had some genuine roughneck Irish like the McGoverns, Farrels and Hogans in south Oak Park but now that’s an “art district” (puking).
“Homosexuals are known for their bad taste? ”
Clearly. Ever been to their parade? Ever see a Nate Berkus staged condo?
“And Groove, dunno where you lived, but Naperville is loaded with parks and many of the neighborhoods and subdivisions have been around long enough to have the leafy canopies like Oak Park. The historic district has some beautiful architecture as well”
“yes but still not the same”
See there? Groove agrees, even though it’s only on a subconscious level. OP is attractive because it was designed and built by the people opposite of who move there today. Ah, the irony. Atheists are not known for sublime works of art, they are incapable of that kind of transcendence. OP has awesome churches, go visit some, lots of beauty inside….or if you’re incapable of getting past prejudice to do so, at least admire them from the outside.
“2011: $205,500 (??- IAR press release says it was $169,000 last year- but that’s not what I have from last year’s press release)”
Yes, that was one of the months that was corrected. However, the YOY median price increase is due to the change in the mix from 46% SS/REO in April 2011 to 36% in April 2012. One doesn’t have to look far to see the reality:
2012 2011
$182,500 $169,000 overall median
$270,000 $290,000 no ss/REO median
$74,500 $75,000 ss/REO median
$225,000 $225,750 condo/th median
$305,000 $325,000 condo/th no ss/REO median
$76,000 $79,950 condo/th ss/REO median
$136,000 $135,000 sfh median
$203,000 $195,000 sfh no ss/REO median
$65,000 $70,000 sfh ss/REO median
Also, itt appears the spring bounce happened early this year. Sales jumped much more than normal from Jan to Feb. Feb to Mar and Mar to Apr increases have been below normal.
It looks like the April YOY sales volume increase will be the peak for this much hyped “bounce.” The trend has not turned.
Whoops, missed out on the Oak Park conversation. I will agree that our walks around the neighborhood were glorious (we lived near the center of town in the historic district). We were by far the youngest family in the area–mostly empty nesters around us. Taxes can be overwhelming and many of the the lower priced places are overassessed, though that can generally be appealed successfully (worked for us, at least). Enjoyed our time there in general, though definitely found ourselves frequenting heading into the city for entertainment and dining. Commutes to work on the Green Line were sometimes awkward–talk about extreme diversity on the train. Took the Green Line home after a night out once or twice and that made for a far more interesting ride home.
Thanks for the info G. I thought that might have been one of the “corrected” months. Thanks for confirming it for me.
Did the warm weather pull the sales forward? There could be an argument that it did. New construction appears to be picking up though, which is a good sign. There are actual mid-rise buildings going up in the GZ. Out of date smaller houses are also being bought up and replaced with McMansions (similar to pre-bust trends.)
But the non-GZ neighborhoods are still getting hit extremely hard.
The mix of REOs/Short sales in April compared to last year is certainly interesting. I think the selling prices are getting more realistic from the sellers who CAN lower so it’s resulting in more of those “normal” sales. The things I see going under contract right away are those that are priced at like 2000-2003 prices.
FYI: Chicago’s Mish Shedlock: http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/05/housing-debate-economist-gary-shilling.html
Housing Debate: Economist Gary Shilling Expects Another 20% Drop, PIMCO’s Mark Kiesel’s Says Time to Buy; Mish Says Debate a “Mixed Bag”
In a Housing Showdown on Bloomberg TV, Economist Gary Shilling & Mark Kiesel Go Head-to-Head.
““stereotyping/hating on large groups is a very fascist quality””
Okay but what about getting branded with a swastika??
“I’ve been telling people to buy in the inner suburbs for several years now. Lots of deals and the commutes are the same (or shorter) in most cases.”
Yeah, with the express trains I pretty much have the same commute ogilve to Wheaton that I did taking the brownline from loop to Paulina and it was a huge improvement given the stopover in Lincoln Square last spring/summer…
Bonus? I live close enough to the METRA to walk every day, there is a lot if it is rainy and I can wander the “downtown” Wheaton area to my heart’s content as we are in walking distance (ok, ish but I don’t have a problem walking 15 min). Not at all the same feel as lakeview but the actual activities I enjoyed living in the City I have roughly approximated and only have to shell out 700 bucks a month to do it…
You’ve inspired me to check out Oak Park.
If I don’t have a car and I’m El-dependent, which stop do I want?
On which streets are the main commercial strips?
“Yeah, with the express trains I pretty much have the same commute ogilve to Wheaton that I did taking”
doode WTH do you have home ADHD? since you have been posting here you have moved 5 times! do you sign three month leases? are you a professional house sitter? are your really Kato kalin?
“You’ve inspired me to check out Oak Park.
If I don’t have a car and I’m El-dependent, which stop do I want?
On which streets are the main commercial strips?”
Harlem stop on the green line. for comercial work your way east down lake, DONT PASS RIDGELAND. If you reach a street named Ausitn turn and RUN west fast.
harlem and lake is too plasticy commercial, the epicenter you want to work from and come back to is lake and Oak park ave. from there you can get the vibe of the city. from there walk north to chicago ave then west a bit and do a frank loyd wright walking audio tour. you wont miss it groups of tourist with cameras walking about.
“Harlem stop on the green line.”
+
“the epicenter you want to work from and come back to is lake and Oak park ave.”
=
Huh?
Why not the Oak Park stop, if you’re directing her to use Oak Park/Lake as the center of her tour?
“Huh?
Why not the Oak Park stop, if you’re directing her to use Oak Park/Lake as the center of her tour?”
like everything i say or do is to create dramatic effect. a cleanse the pallet type of thing, you know give it a build.
have her walk past a old navy, Gap, and whole foods turn past the closed down borders thats next to the trader joes and as she walks it will keep getting better and better and better.
to have her take the pretty darn f’d up and scary green line and get off on oak park, may be took much of a shock. i tried to create a buffer. ridgeland stop not good enough.
You forgot to include the directions to Olive Garden, too.
go have a cocktail at the Philander’s bar, place is hilarious and good time. The guy who played Fraziers dad on the TV show is sometimes in there. I couldn’t believe when I found out he too, is a homo. Who isn’t these days? geesh.
“Who isn’t these days? geesh”
i tried but it was to hard on the knees
all kidding aside, the quantity your seeing is not greater its just the less of you’s make it easier for more of them to be themselves. the situation shows evolution at its finest.
“the situation shows evolution at its finest.”
I think you mean evolutionary dead-end, two guys can’t forward evolution, duh! the evolution/birth rate is way down, not up, no thanks to more of yous.
“The guy who played Fraziers dad on the TV show is sometimes in there. I couldn’t believe when I found out he too, is a homo.”
Seriously Helmethoofer, not every old man who jerks you off in a bathroom stalls is a ‘homo’. Some have wives and families too. They’re just on the DL, just like you.
“I think you mean evolutionary dead-end, two guys can’t forward evolution, duh!”
nope i meant what i meant, and what was meant is that evolution has been making people like YOU’s become an endangered species.
“two guys can’t forward evolution, duh!”
doesnt stop them trying 😉
“and what was meant is that evolution has been making people like YOU’s become an endangered species. ”
Yeah, that’s why the YOUS recruit and convert them to gaydom!
“not every old man who jerks you off in a bathroom stall”
I think danhofer was just taking a wide stance.
I know some gays who have kids through artificial insemination.
Dan must hate that the most.
“I think danhofer was just taking a wide stance”
you do have to take a wide stance in the stall, as we all know;
no matter how you wiggle and dance,
the last few drops still go down your pants
Groove.. i think dz meant wide stance while dan has “wake me up before you go go, don’t leave me hanging on like a yo-yo” blasting away on the ipod.
Sounds great, guys!
Thank you so much for the directions.
If anyone seriously wants to check out the OP vibe, I suggest the Uncork Illinois wine fest on June 2, the farmer’s market on Lake / just east of Ridgland on any Saturday morning, or Marion Street on any Thursday evening this summer.
“Groove.. i think dz meant wide stance while dan has “wake me up before you go go, don’t leave me hanging on like a yo-yo” blasting away on the ipod.”
i guess you can see it that way, but anything wider than shoulder width apart you loose full power.
Dan, Yelp says Philander’s closed.
Any other favorites in the area?
Milkster- if you’re looking for somewhere to eat check out Il Vicolo Trattoria at 116 N. Oak Park Avenue. It has a lovely outdoor patio in the side alley and great Italian food at reasonable prices. It’s also off the regular “lake street” path but easy to get to even if you don’t have a car.
I’m assuming that G is no longer posting the monthly historic updates (I couldn’t find them last month) so I’m doing a couple of things. First, Chicago closings for May should come in around 19.2% higher than last year, continuing the positive comps. Second, I’ve compiled all of G’s data into one chart and filled in some of the missing pieces in order to provide a historic perspective on Chicago home sales and added a few other charts to provide perspective on home inventory levels, distressed sales, and contract activity. You can see the complete post with all that data here: http://www.chicagonow.com/getting-real/2012/06/continued-positive-signs-in-chicagos-real-estate-market-in-may/
“First, Chicago closings for May should come in around 19.2% higher than last year, continuing the positive comps.”
Thanks for the link to the data Gary. I don’t think anyone is surprised that May is well above last year. But it was very depressed last year so there’s bound to be an improvement.
The low inventory is still the problem. People are getting into bidding wars for townhouses in Bucktown now because there just isn’t anything on the market. But this isn’t going to change any time soon (probably for years.) There are simply too many people underwater. They can’t sell- even if they want to (not without doing a short sale.)
Well, the issue is that low inventory can not persist for years. It is self-correcting. Bidding wars will result in higher prices, which will bring more inventory out, which will keep prices from rising.