Market Conditions: Downtown Condo Sales Continue to Plunge
Crain’s is reporting that downtown condo sales had their worst quarter in 7 years.
Is anyone surprised?
From Crain’s:
Buyers signed contracts for only 160 condos and townhouses in the quarter, down 82% from the same period a year earlier, according to Appraisal Research Counselors, a real estate appraisal and consulting firm.
Contracts for the year are poised to fall short of 1,000 units, making 2008 the worst year for downtown condo and townhouse sales since the Chicago-based firm started tracking the market in 1997.
“People are just nervous,” says Alan Lev, president and CEO of Belgravia Group Ltd., a Chicago-based condo developer.
In fourth-quarter 2001, after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, buyers signed contracts for only 92 units.
According the Appraisal Research, another 9,336 units will be completed downtown through 2009 but only a third have contracts on them.
As we’ve also chattered about, how many of these units that are under contract will even close? The flipping game is over.
What’s more, many developers are having a hard time getting buyers to close on their units. The reasons vary, but a growing number of buyers are canceling contracts because they can’t get financing. Canceled purchase contracts historically accounted for about 10% of the units in a typical downtown project but have recently increased to 15% and even hit 40% at one development, Appraisal Research data show.
When will building resume? Some are saying as soon as 2010.
Downtown developers will complete only 408 units in 2010, down from 4,719 next year, according to Appraisal Research.
Belgravia signed a contract last year for a site north of the Trump project to build a 17-story, 50-unit condo building. But Mr. Lev is in no hurry to start marketing the development. “We’re not going to start anything until the landscape’s different,” he says.
Condo sales fall to 7-year low [Crain’s Chicago Business, Nov 10, 2008]- be sure to check out the graph which shows sales versus inventory. It’s pretty shocking how quickly sales have fallen off a cliff.
And things aren’t looking too good going forward. Just updated the employment numbers. See bottom graph:
http://blog.lucidrealty.com/chicago_real_estate_statistics/
We’ve now lost 77,000 jobs in the area relative to last year and that’s with a 6.3% unemployment rate. Moody’s is forecasting 8.4% for the area eventually. I was optimistic when I said it wouldn’t go over 8%.
So to beat a new dead horse… I learned how to use excel yesterday and want to show off.
So pacing 640 units annualized (going into winter i think thats nice), assume 500k avg price (someone feel free to correct that), avg commission of 5.5% w/ half going to the house, and we take 15% not going to closing. I will assume (incorrectly) none of these as walk ins to developer on purchase – like mine, or self listed sales – like mine.
Hit F9… we get total commissions to realtor shills for the year of 7.48 mil.
Yep lot’s of shills pulling down the double comma paychecks like some mosquito buzzing around here said earlier.
Gary you should look at U6.. much more accurate picture
Ze,
We have got to help you figure out how to organize your thoughts in one post- as opposed to several consecutive posts, one after the other.
Something like 50% of the posts on the board are coming from you- not a criticism, btw. I like your ideas and appreciate you “calling a spade, a spade.”
What does ze carioca stand for?
Sorry.. I tend to be that way in real life also when i am a bit upset and just keep realizing after the fact i have another point to make. I HATE seeing people manipulate and hurt people that may not know better.
Ze Carioca is the Disney character who was friends with Daffy Duck and is one of the 3 caballeros. A Carioca is someone who lives in Rio de Janeiro. Ze is an abbreviation of Jo-se which is really just Joe in English) My real name translates very very oddly into Portuguese so I started calling myself Ze from the Character lil’ Ze from the movie City of God (sick movie-MUST see) which made my wife nuts, then HD made a comment about the Cheshire cat and I remembered Ze Carioca. Since everyone here goes by nicknames (think soccer – Kaka-Pele-Ronaldinho,etc.) I started really calling myself Gringo Ze Carioca to everyone I now meet. My wife wants to kill me!! I am a 4 yr old so i think it’s hilarious and my friends here already took to it.
Anyway here is Ze… shows up about 2 1/2 minutes in and it’s a happy video with a nice Samba beat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mQHr8bAojU
Ze Carioca is Andrew Lahde or the Chicago equivalent of him.
Im confused…THE Andrew Lahde?
Bob.. this was for you.. Timing was too good… saw it this morning on Marketwatch and remebered our convo and my comment to beware of one hit wonders and outliers on a distribution curve… not sure if you caught it.
Star performer relies on the stars
Commentary: Crawford uses astrology to compile year’s best record to date
John (JCL) Just a guy who absolutely hated what he did, thought most (not all) of the people involved were morons, was very bearish housing, thought everyone who still does what he did (and no longer has to) is wasting their freaking life, went AWOL, believes life is too short, and most of all very much likes to smoke pot.
ROFLMAO!!!
BTW Jets picked up Ty Law… Thursday can’t come soon enough.
It shouldn’t say “Crain’s is reporting that downtown condo sales had their worst quarter in 7 years.” but rather “the worst record since Crain’s began reporting 7 years ago. And no, buyers are nervous, they got smart is all.
John.. YOU ARE GIVING WAY TOO MUCH CREDIT to people. Banks are insolvent and cut them off is more like it. The fodder is still out there. It’s why new build cost makes me curious. I assure you developers have been cut off otherwise they would still be building so long as they thought they could convince banks they could sell over new build. And my bet (not a big one) is prices still encourage building. This popped up front page MSNBC a few hours ago. IDIOTS!! Freaking Ostrich head in the sand idiots!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27648884/
“new build cost”
You can reverse engineer a good estimate from publicized construction loans plus developer equity (cash & mezz loans) minus land acquisition costs divide by total sq ft. Trump has plenty of pub on his basic situation; waterview, too. It’ll give you a +/-10-15% number. Or, you can back it out from pre-construction pricing–the pre-construction pricing is such that, if all the units sell at that pricing, the construction costs are paid and the developers hit their return number, so about somewhere b/t about 2/3 and 3/4 of the sum of the pre-con pricing is construction cost, unless the land was especially expensive.
Yeah, well the Fed and Treasury and the rest of Uncle Sam is praying at night and having cold sweats that these idiots don’t wake up and realize they are severely underwater on their mortgage and realize their optimal financial decision is to default.
Its their delusion that is the only thing that stands between the current increasing default rates and an uncontrollable default tsunami.
““People are just nervous,” says Alan Lev, president and CEO of Belgravia Group Ltd., a Chicago-based condo developer.”
I can imagine Lev going on to say “buyers of my units have always made me money, don’t they realize that they still can?”
The shills never admit that they were just plain wrong. Developers continued building into the most obvious bubble of our lifetimes.
It’s not that the buyers are nervous, it’s that the developers were greedy b*st*rds. They are the ones who miscalculated the demand for their product.
Didn’t this shill (Lev) also say, just a few months ago, that he would never lower prices in his developments?
Has he made a sale since? If so, I must have missed the turnip truck rumbling through town.
“People are just nervous,” says Alan Lev, president and CEO of Belgravia Group Ltd., a Chicago-based condo developer.
———–
The only people who are nervous are those who were too dumb/brainwashed to walk away from their contracts before closing. Potential buyers who have not made that enormous mistake yet are anything but nervous. Developers???? Ahhh, now there’s a nervous bunch if there ever was one.
What a complete NTAC…
John
My feeling is that with all the losses recognized by “evil” stock market investors in the 3rd quarter, tax revenues will be far lower than anyone in government budgeted for in 2009. This will most likely push taxes higher for those who pay taxes or reduce your refund, which will delay the recovery of real estate further.
The two positive rays of light for Chicago out there are still Obama and the Olympics. Both could cause substantial spending in Chicago.
If you do not feel that the cost equates with the value delivered by a realtor, you can always use http://www.condo.com or http://www.owners.com to sell your residence.
Or use a discount service and only pay 2.5-3% to a broker that actually brings a buyer for you and not waste 3% for someone to do nothing more than list it and wait for the phone call. If you get lucky the perspective buyer calls you directly and you pay nada! You are on MLS that way also.
Too many condos – not enough buyers.
Just wanted to put a little reminder for folks who told me – “I should forget about $60/bbl oil” . That was 3 months ago. This morning crude is trading at $62/bbl. Now, watch with shock and awe while crude heads down even further.
Oh yeah and another joker who said– this is the time to buy stocks, something about be greedy when others are afraid etc. Well that was 3000 points ago on the dow :-).
Deflation is a cruel cruel mistress but you better learn to like her cause she’s here to stay.
I remember when I first got my driver’s license oil was $10 a barrel and gas was 99c a gallon. What year was that? No it wasn’t 1962…It was 1995. Go figure.
“sartre on November 11th, 2008 at 8:39 am
Just wanted to put a little reminder for folks who told me – “I should forget about $60/bbl oil” . That was 3 months ago. This morning crude is trading at $62/bbl. Now, watch with shock and awe while crude heads down even further.
Oh yeah and another joker who said– this is the time to buy stocks, something about be greedy when others are afraid etc. Well that was 3000 points ago on the dow :-).
Deflation is a cruel cruel mistress but you better learn to like her cause she’s here to stay.”
homedelete, don’t worry, you will see something close to that. I think we will revisit atleast $20/bbl.
$20/bbl is a pipe dream. You can quote me on that and I would love to be able to eat those words in the future.
As far as deflation: I don’t think it will ever be a big problem in America. Its all about demographics. The Japanese have a culture of self-restraint and one that is steeped in tradition. The US only has a culture of materialism, consumerism, impatience and status is determine by tangible things. As soon as the US consumer is able to spend again they will. How much they spend and have is how much too many US consumers keep score in life. With zero percent interest rates the remaining creditworthy consumers will go nuts.
Yeah, HD, it wasn’t 1962, b/c in 1962, oil was $3/bbl.
And the only post-Carter stretch of oil being at or below $10/bbl (ignoring any possible daily minimums) was the second half of 98 and 1st quarter of 99.
But your point stands–I remember sub-70 cent gas in the late 80s.
“With zero percent interest rates the remaining creditworthy consumers will go nuts.”
That’s doubtful. You need excellent credit to be saved by zero. The most credit worthy borrowers are so very creditworty because they are responsible with money. They didn’t get that way from overspending like drunken sailors.
Hahaha! I don’t remember 1962 b/c I wasn’t born yet. I was around in the 80’s but I was watching sat morning cartoons not gas prices. My point about $10 oil was that it was so recently. 1995 in the grand scheme of things wasn’t all that long ago.
“anon (tfo) on November 11th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Yeah, HD, it wasn’t 1962, b/c in 1962, oil was $3/bbl.
And the only post-Carter stretch of oil being at or below $10/bbl (ignoring any possible daily minimums) was the second half of 98 and 1st quarter of 99.
But your point stands–I remember sub-70 cent gas in the late 80s.”
$20/bbl is a pipe dream. You can quote me on that and I would love to be able to eat those words in the future.
bookmarked :-), will do.
While I am not ordinarily a conspiracy person, does it not seem odd that the economy came completely unglued right before the election and fuel prices fell almost 50% since there July highs?
Weren’t those two events at odds with each other?
Unglued economy = minus for incumbents
Lower gas price = plus for incumbents
“As far as deflation: I don’t think it will ever be a big problem in America. Its all about demographics. The Japanese have a culture of self-restraint and……”
Heh heh…Study the japanese debt to GDP ratio. What Japanese did with their real estate and stock market puts our best and brightest flippers to shame. Nikkei was around 40,000 in 1990, check out where it is at today.
Deflation is happening my friend, read the article above, what do you think these condo’s will sell for? pennies on the dollar. Where do you think the notional wealth built on wishing prices went. Up in smoke. Money supply is not a zero sum game. Money was created in multiples through leverage and its getting decimated in multiples now, and there’s not a damn thing the governments can do about it.
You say U.S consumers will spend no matter what? So what happened to the last stimulus? (quick answer: same thing that will happen to the next one, it will get saved).
JL – The do nothing Congress probably wanted hard economic times before the election. They certainly pounded in the press. Well, what goes around comes around and now the new guy will be held to the same standard that he set for the current guy. Gonna love watching him lies and squirm. The newbie will make some big errors….they have dressed him up and staged for two years to make him look “presidential” in the minds of the people (nice seal, nice meeting room that looks like a WH conference room and all!). So when newbie arrived at the WH yesterday, after he gets out of the armored limo, he closed the door and it slammed shut (you can hear it on the news…I burst out laughing when I saw and heard it)…..silly newbie you DON’T just close a door on an armored limo….they are very heavy and they will break off someone’s arm if caught in them….USSS opens and closes the door for you and they always do it with TWO hands and they do it gently for a reason….geesh you’d think after being chauffeured around by USSS for almost a year you’d know that by now. Please be careful with the doors around your two kids…the doors are very very heavy. I guess newbie was nervous and probably thinking wow…I can’t believe that these fools elected me…..I’ll be glad to tax and spend them to death.
Last stimulus check was spend on items made in China, so it really stimulated their economny. This country is throwing good money after bad, my fear is that none of this will work and the government will print money like we have never seen before. If this happens the money you have in the bank will become worthless. Falling real estate prices will be the least of our concerns.
I’m on Sartre side on oil. See no reason why we don’t see $20. Predicting commodity prices is crazy tough though if not impossible. As for conspiracy, nah, just wild speculation on Peak oil theories.
I would say to people that were peak oil theorists (i do not deny or agree with peak oil) simply that at this price point more could be sucked out NOW, the world could have easily produced more if it was a free market. They would go apeshiit on me.
$20 Buy Peak Oil
$40 Buy Peak Oil
$80 Buy Peak Oil
$120 Buy Peak Oil
$160 Buy Peak Oil
Who the hell knows even with peak oil what the stuff should sell for.
Now with declining revenue you will see every one of these OPEC bastards cheat to try and make up the lost revenue. I remember very well in ’98 buying $11 barrels.
Valasko.. you just said what my biggest fear is. I once said on here, even if you do everything right you might wind up with nothing. I have never seen theft at this scale.
John.. Not going to flame on this anymore, but will you answer me finally on one thing. You don’t think all this money being sent out by the Treasury and Fed is not a tax and destroying your balance sheet since you are on the hook for it?? Just asking politely.
And I was hoping for it was going to be a pink armored caddy with armored doves. Man I would have done that just to see Hannitys head explode.
Actually, the right answer is: stimulus checks went into savings and paying off debt. As far as china is concerned, I present you some reading material:
Chinese Job losses prompt exodus:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7713594.stm
Half of China’s toy exporters out of business:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2008-10/14/content_7104848.htm
Economy rocks china’s factories:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/2008-10-21-red-dragon-china-factories-economy_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip
China is sitting on a social time bomb and its getting close to time.
Ze — -don’t forget at the beginning of the year the Obama campaign asked secret service to use hybrid vehicles for the motorcade to show Obama’s support for the environment (I guess that was before the economy became such a big issue to take advantage of) I wouldn’t have been surprised to see the special agents look at them in disbelief and laugh and laugh and laugh…I’m sure it is a running joke inside USSS by now. Do they not know how long it takes to armor a car and that have a a proven reliable engine is one of the best things for security? Oh silly liberals when will they ever learn that talk is nothing…. The Treasury and Fed by providing liquidity is doing the right thing at the right time…it is a loan or equity stake, not a give away…. it is not what I would want but I understand it and do not fear it. $1T deficits I fear, more entitlements I fear, much higher taxes and chasing away investment in the U.S. (and hence jobs) I fear. Lending money to U.S. companies that will pay it back so they don’t have to sell assets at distressed prices, I don’t fear that.
Jeebus, John, take it somewhere else. I have a lot to say in response, but won’t b/c this ain’t the forum. Take it to Redstate (if you want an echo chamber) or Kos (if you want to piss people off).
Or HuffPo if you want to get censored… I agree anaon (tfo). Thanks for the 1 answer and I will respectfully agree to disagree.
Good luck in the soon to be newly named Miamigrad.
“The Treasury and Fed by providing liquidity is doing the right thing at the right time…it is a loan or equity stake, not a give away…. it is not what I would want but I understand it and do not fear it. ”
That’s called socialism and nationalization. And that’s a good thing? Please explain to me how nationalized companies are going to be able to compete in the world. At the moment our strongest financial companies are actually undead zombies. They’ll be that way for years and years. We’re turning into Europe. Unemployment is increasing but will level out around 9 or 10%; It will remain elevated until at least 2020. Jobs will be difficult to come by and when job turnover will be reduced. We’ll have deflation in the near term but increased taxes, higher unionized wages and other job market costs will raise prices in the long term. Government interference in the housing market will stem the price declines but houses will remain unaffordable. Again, look at Europe as an example of our future. Europe is expensive for a reason and it’s not just the VAT. I lived in Europe and have travelled it extensively so I feel I have enough experience to speak on the subject.
Oh..boy here we go again!
I’m just going to go for how is it in the framework of capitalism to bail out a company, with “The Peoples Republics Money” and allow the bondholders to remain whole. While creating the Socialized State…
And Speaking of Socialism, I didn’t realize how HOT Sarkozkys new wife is until seeing a really good pic of her today.
Awesome.. affair, divorce, new hot foreign wife. No one their blinked!! I love France.
“And Speaking of Socialism, I didn’t realize how HOT Sarkozkys new wife is until seeing a really good pic of her today. ”
Don’t forget that Sarkozky is considered conservative as far as Frog politics go. He fought the unions and tried to slay the 35 hour work week. “Work more to earn more” was his slogan.
Ze Carioca, Thanks for the Donald Duck in Rio de Janeiro link above. I’m heading to Rio for the 3rd time the week after next. It’s interesting to see how Disney captured Rio’s beauty so many years ago.
It’s France. C’est la vie! Nothing will get them to give up their two hour lunches. Since he hooked up with her I bet his are now 3 hours. Can’t say I disagree.
homedelete – I agree with what you posted. What I said was I understand it. The concern was to prevent a cascading systemic collapse. I don’t like it, but I can see why they did it and am hard pressed to criticize it. Money needs to come back out once things stabilize…if it doesn’t then we will continue to have trouble. Regardless, unemployment will be going up, so will taxes, and so will the federal budget deficit. As such, wealth will continue to decline and hence housing will continue to take a hit. It is going to get uglier, not better in 2009. Sarkozky does have a hot wife…and I have three degrees (one bachelor and two grad) all from top 20 schools so why the Miami hate…I got them in Chicago’s backyard, not Florida. I can tell you one thing though, Miami is ahead of the real estate collapse compared to Chicago, you guys don’t know how bad it can get……condos for $0 may not be out of the question down here….just pay condo HOA and R.E. taxes….as developers go belly up one after the other.
The Chicago Spire, maybe Trump Towers….what else is dead or on life support up there? 340 OTP is great but last I looked the larger units were not selling or were priced at or below pre-con sale prices.
They severely overestimated demand for high rise living. And the also overestimated the prices buyers would be willing to pay.
No Miami hate… Just making a lame joke. Remember I told you to keep an eye out for me in Bal Harbour. I try to follow whats going on their since it will be my next residence, I just don’t get much transparency for some reason in that market. I see Brickell more but no buildings on the Key will allow my dogs.
Money will not come out of a black hole. It is a give away at absurdly favorable terms and an effort to mark books at unrealistic values. When a company is -200 bil neg net worth and you pump 150 bil cash in it, it stays neg net worth. Money go poof!! In a crumbling economy resources become scarce and saving AIG does not seem to me to be the best use of what will be very necessary assets. Let em all goo bye bye, avoid a moral hazard as well, keep to the principles of capitalism with those that took the risk accepting the failure or reward and recapitalize the system anew. Will have no problem finding investors
Now have fun with this in an hour…
Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and U.S. officials are expected to announce plans Tuesday to speed up the modification of hundreds of thousands of loans … The streamlined effort will target certain loans that are 90 days or more past due … The program will aim to bring the ratio of mortgage payments for these homeowners to 38% of their income by modifying interest rates and in some cases forgiving portions of principal debt …
The announcement is expected to come at a press conference at 2 p.m. at the Federal Housing Finance Agency …
Za – Just refi into a fixed rate mortgage for 40-50 years…if that doesn’t work then just foreclose….NO REDUCTION IN PRINCIPLE.
er, PRINCIPAL!
“bring the ratio of mortgage payments for these homeowners to 38% of their income”
Hahaha. Like 38% of gross is affordable. This is chasing the market down, too.
“saving AIG”
C’mon, you don’t really think that’s about “saving” AIG, do you Ze? It’s about saving most of their counterparties and avoiding a looting of the (adequately capitalized??) casualty/life insurance businesses. AIG is effectively in a non-judicial liquidation (inadequately) run by the feds. AIG was DOA when the first $80b was sent in. Wait for the actual listing of the CDS–it might cause another panic, unless AIG has gotten good value (highly, highly unlikely) for some assets by then.
What you said is kind of what I am expecting. Banks are so kind when their choice is to lower rates and keep the loan on their book for full value or have to write off half of it. I actually agree with this so long as their are no principal reductions. Taking someone up from a 3% teaser to 11 % was a bit much, particularly when you are on a gov’t lifeline getting cash for 1%.
John–
It’s both, isn’t it?
Dude if Fannie & Freddie are going to do loan mods to make mortgages only 38% of gross income I’d quit my job and be a janitor for a year to show 12k of income. 38% of 12k income = an awesome deal for a previously 417k property!
Don’t worry. They reduce prinicipal only in the sense that they remove all late fees, accured interest and attorneys fees tacked onto principal. Even at 38% of income most will eventually default and return to foreclosure. They’re just pushing the problem into the future. I told you a few months ago I saw a loan mod by citibank where they actually increased the original mortage balance by $3k, lowered the guy’s interest rate to 3% for 3 years and he had an affordable payment. However, after 3 yeras, the loan reverted back to its original terms of the 6-month libor plus a margin of like 5 or 6% variable readjusting every six months. citibank just pushed the disaster farther into the future. And now he’s filing BK because he can’t afford the reduced mortgage becaues of credit card and other debt. I put the odds at 95 to 1 that he’ll default again sometime in the future. Some people are not meant to own. Most of those people bought homes between 2001 and 2007.
No.. I know it is not about saving AIG… I went thru this once myself years back. Truth is almost none of the “financial forensic experts” I dealt with understood the contracts and had the ability to determine the fallout. The world did not end. I doubt it would this time. Let the contracts net out and see whats left and use the money to recap the system. Like you said “unless AIG has gotten good value (highly, highly unlikely)” That money is gone!!!!
Then the taxpayer EATS IT.. My point to John earlier. This is a tax increase whether he wants to recognize it or not.
DOesn’t anyone work? I know it’s a federal holiday but I’m being sucked into cribchatter. I should be billing billing billing!
No! I do not!
Actually I am being forced to leave right now to go watch my niece and a bunch of 16 yr old Brazilian girls play volleyball.
Agony!! 🙂
Ze–
I meant “good value” for their opcos that they are (allegedly) trying to sell. I know that all of the $180b is in the blackhole of collateralizing the CDS (and paying bonuses). I think you’re (1) underestimating the notional value of the CDS AIG sold, (2) overestimating the hedging AIG did (i.e., they weren’t big buyers of CDS), and (3) discounting the panic that would ensue when every AIG counterparty wrote down their assets the same day. AIG turned its holding company into the world’s biggest synthetic CDO–the ripple would be ginormous.
homedelete – I don’t per se, just invest. Just wait until people take a week off for 1/20….and you thought take off work for 11/4 was bad. Somehow, I still believe, it is liberty with hard work that achieves the American Dream, not taking the day off to worship federal politics on 11/4 and 1/20 which are not federal holidays.
anon when i return i will respond.
Hopefully America will remain the land of opportunity. Those who work hard in the private sector will be rewarded amply while those who take a week off for 1/20 will receive a meger gubmint paycheck with COLA raises. Who knows, who knows. All I know it is that my congressman, ram emanuel (the former ballerina), will be soon running the show in the white house. He made $14 million dollars in two years at an investment banking firm and he was on the board of Fannie. I’m not making this stuff up. Talk about putting the wolves in charge of guarding the hen house. Nothing will change. THe more things change the more they stay the same. Bush opened the door for bailouts and the next administration will continue the process. Anyway, my sources at AIG tell me things are slow, very slow, no one wants insurance from AIG even though they are now 79.99999999% owned by the feds. My source in property/casuaty tells me that few policies are coming in and many clients are refusing to renew….proping up a zombie.
For the record AIG is not my client so it’s not like I’m spilling any protected info here. I’ve got a good friend who works there and this weekend while watching the bears he told me he’s worried aobut losing his job.
What a suprise Homedelete? I thought AIG was doing great!
“no one wants insurance from AIG”
This is why they needed to sell ASAP. They well might have missed their window to get anything resembling fair value. Hell, a spin-off of the opcos with a newco name would have been better than what they’ve done (ie, nothing).
Homedelete – I just read your post. You are one depressed guy and you should probably seek some help. Maybe it is all the co-signed auto loans or pay day loans that have you down 🙂
Steven, once again you’re such a dumbass. AIG’s problems are with credit default swaps and some other obscure insurance products they sold.
The prop/casualty lines are regulated and well capitalized and they are doing just fine. Now that AIG is in the news people are making the decision not to insure with AIG even though the prop/casulty areas are/were doing just fine.
A CPA, a lawyer, a speculator and now you’re a shrink too?
“Steve Heitman on November 11th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Homedelete – I just read your post. You are one depressed guy and you should probably seek some help. Maybe it is all the co-signed auto loans or pay day loans that have you down “
Probably the sick companies — or zombies — just need to be bought out and jettison the cr*p along the way. Sadly, I think we in or a lot of “show” and very little actual “go”….that is my opinion. And it will only lead to worsening unemployment and further home price declines. At some point, the fed govt won’t be able to deliver on its promises.
Again HD, what a shocker about AIG :))