Market Conditions: Is It Time To Build Some New Downtown Condo Highrises?
Downtown condo sales continue to be completely dead as third quarter sales fell sharply compared to the third quarter of 2011.
Developers sold 154 units downtown in the third quarter, down from 182 sales in the second quarter and 229 in the third quarter last year, according to Chicago-based consulting firm Appraisal Research Counselors.
Downtown developers were sitting on 1,478 condos at the end of the quarter, down from 1,828 at the end of last year and nearly 6,000 near the market peak in 2007, according to Appraisal Research. Many developers have taken their condos off the market by renting them out, reducing the supply.
While that’s good news for the market, the lack of supply also may be inhibiting sales of new condos. Developers have sold 449 new condos through three quarters this year, down from 614 through three quarters in 2011, according to Appraisal Research.
The lack of inventory has led to a bifurcated market favoring lower-priced buildings and luxury towers with hotel service such as Aqua and the Trump International Hotel & Tower. CMK Development Corp.’s 714-unit building at 235 W. Van Buren St., which targets entry-level buyers, led all projects, with 26 sales in the third quarter, closing deals at an average price of $310 a square foot.
Other sales leaders in the third quarter included a condo conversion at 200 N. Dearborn St., with 22 sales, and Trump, with 21.
There are also about 500 units in the three Museum Park towers that aren’t yet on the market but will be in 2013 with a new marketing campaign.
As the article points out, in some neighborhoods, such as Streeterville, there are NO new condo units available to buy at all.
Would buyers appear if the real estate industry actually built some new condo high rises that weren’t luxury high rises (ala Trump or the Ritz) downtown?
How much slower can it get in the new construction condo market?
Downtown condo sales fall in the third quarter [Crain’s Chicago Business, David Lee Matthews, November 13, 2012]
Streeterville might not have new condos, but it has to have some pre-construction stuff, right? I see some cranes over there and I have to assume those are condos or they will be if the price/market is right.
They can just convert the rentals being built everywhere in RN and Streeterville.
I guess I’m not rich enough to understand this obsession with “new” property, but the last thing Streeterville needs in my opinion is another high rise.
“Would buyers appear if the real estate industry actually built some new condo high rises that weren’t luxury high rises (ala Trump or the Ritz) downtown?”
-Perhaps, but with the glut of condos in Chicago and interest rates staying at these levels for at least another 2 years, I really don’t see an incentive to buy any condo in Chicago even though I have a sufficient down payment and income to do so. I have other friends (in their mid-late twenties) in my situation who feel the same way. Aren’t most new construction high-rises branded with the “luxury” term either way? Building a non-luxury highrise condo for us “99%ers” in Streeterville doesn’t make much sense to a developer when they could get a lot more profit (money per square foot) by building&marketing it as the next Aqua to rich folk look for “in-towns” who don’t have to worry about being on the fence between buying or renting because they could care less about it from an investment perspective.
“Streeterville might not have new condos, but it has to have some pre-construction stuff, right? I see some cranes over there and I have to assume those are condos or they will be if the price/market is right.”
The cranes you are seeing are all for rental buildings.
“Is It Time To Build Some New Downtown Condo Highrises?”
No.
I think there will be a market for condos soon that have real liveable space. I’ve seen some of the new luxury rentals. They are packed with amenities and high end finishes, but the floorplans are small, ackward and don’t lend themselves to long term living much past your 20s. I think developers should focus on larger condos, room for families to grow, in good neighborhoods w/ schools (i.e., Ogden) that are large, but less expensive than single families. This would give a 20 something buyer reason to buy (they won’t have to sell as soon as the first kid pops out) because they can stay longer. Also, some baby boomers who want to return to the city have a hard time adjusting to no laundry room, small galley kitchens etc…
Housing Agency Close to Exhausting Reserves
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324595904578119140604024484.html
I think the future state of housing valuations depends also in part as to whether taxpayers will continue to subsidized bad loans made with low downpayments. To think in Chicago with 15k down you can buy a 400k property and affect valuations at that level is ludicrous. In California you can do similarly with 30k down and 650k properties.
Bob, this is a big part of why…
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-rebound-buyers-20121114,0,2826111.story
“After two foreclosures and two bankruptcies, Hermes Maldonado is as surprised as anyone that he’s getting a third shot at homeownership.”
“After everything that happened, thank God I was able to buy another house,” Maldonado said in Spanish.
Idiot cannot speak English. The USA is already Brazil-North, we’re a third world shithole.
“Critics worry that the FHA is foolishly allowing marginal buyers to get loans just three years after foreclosure with as little as 3.5% down. What’s more, the agency doesn’t even track how many rebound borrowers it backs.
Exactly how much money is hemorrhaging from the agency could be revealed Thursday, when the agency files a self-evaluation report to Congress. Analysts say the FHA could request a bailout from the U.S. Treasury for the first time in its history.”
Moochers won the election for Obama. Those who aren’t “moochers” and still voted for Obama are going to be cursed by future generations for their level of idiocy and stupidity. What a legacy for liberals, to be eternally cursed as fools.
Thanks for the article, Russ.
I forwarded it to the HOA president at my Edgewater condo.
The HOA is pursuing FHA approval for the building and I have been against it, but they can’t fully grasp why, even though I bought my unit in foreclosure from a buyer who financed the ENTIRE loan amount and then defaulted leaving thousands of dollars of unpaid assessments.
It turns out our property manager is the one pushing for FHA and he is a former loan officer!
My neighbors are nice, but they don’t have the full scoop on FHA like the CCers do.
Milkster, FHA isn’t all that bad as most lenders typically significantly overlay FHA guidelines. Nevertheless, I do understand the concerns of HOA. Whether or not to be FHA approved really depends on the typical price points of your building. If it is a more expensive building – say $250k units or higher, then FHA approval is probably not all that important as most buyers are going to be conventiona anywayl. If it is lower than that you do risk eliminating a good number of buyers out of the market place which could impact the marketability of the units.
FHA has its place, but they really do need to tighten some areas of their guidelines. it is crazy that someone can be out of bankruptcy barely three years and buy again. FHA, Fannie, Freddie all suffer from underwriting becoming more about paperwork/processes instead of utilizing common sense.
With that said, HOAs do need to stay current on keeping their buildings warrantable for Fannie/Freddie. This is a HUGE problem. Especially now as any purchase above 80% loan to value now requires full condo reviews – decs, by laws, budgets, etc. Most HOAs have not kept up with new requirements.
Helmut – If the USA were really “Brazil North,” Mr. Maldonado would be speaking PORTUGUESE.
OTOH Argentina is also a multi-ethnic South American country whose main language is Spanish.
Try again.
helmet, everyone keeps preaching the moocher theme, and there’s some truth to it, but it’s more than that. People just don’t like Mitt, and more people like Obama. Mitt’s a rich white jerk with $250,000,000 million bucks and this traditional white conservative family right out the 1950’s that quite frankly is not the face of america anymore. America is baby mommas, and baby daddys, and step parents, and grandparents, and live in boyfriends, and dual income working partners, and stagnating wages, and lots of non-white people. Mitt represented everything that old school conservatives want to be, and he represents everything that people that America is no longer. Right or wrong, The (R) brand still has some value, but austerity isn’t going to play well these days and cutting welfare benefits isn’t going to attract voters. People just don’t have these conservative values like they used to. and there’s nothing anyone can do about it.
“Idiot can not speak English…we’re a third world shithole.”
Typical wrong ignorant hateful self delusional raving from a hater w/ undeservedly high opinion of self. Talk about a fool for eternity. The fools are the losers who won’t acknowledge actual reasons how and why they lost the election(s). They refuse to take responsibility for the failure of their ideas to resonate outside of their core and the hater class (helmuthead personified) & continue to point at ‘moochers’, voter fraud, attack ads, nanny state, etc. Buy a clue – I’m an independent voter & I don’t hate or envy Mitt. While I am impressed by his many successes I see Mitt/R’s having zero interest in my hopes – broadly to see USA provide equal opportunity for all here to have a fair shot. And imo yes the success that Mitt and others reap here comes with an obligation to pay a bit more to cover costs of the system that provides the opportunity for their success. And they should help pay for costs of Bush’s wars. Imo with less regulation the BP’s of our world will treat our natural resources like toilets, with no concern about consequence.
“The (R) brand still has some value,”
After the election results I think the R party is one in deep disarray.
As for Mitt there are a lot of reasons for why he lost. One could be that he is the poster boy and shining example of how the system is geared toward making the rich richer. The fact that he was allowed to set aside 50k/year and parlay that into astronomical returns using leverage and investments _not available to the general public_ shows how skewed the system is. Try to put in more than 17k into your 401k this year and see what happens–yet certain people are allowed to put in 50k.
The fact that he could get rich in the private sector utilizing such an unfair playing field then thinking he could parlay this into public office (via attempting to buy it) shows how out of touch he is with reality.
I’m all about exploiting legal loopholes and accumulating wealth but even I have the contextual awareness to know that if I’m that wildly successful at it it might not translate over too well to Joe & Jane 401k who have taken a financial beating the past few years.
Republicans lost because they are boring. In our public education world where the average voter knows more about Kim Kardashian’s exploits than any of the major issues of the day, it is a lot easier to sell the left’s message of hope and change sound bites. The left’s capture of hollywood and schools also gives them an advantage. My high school was like being in some sort of leftist indoctrination camp. Voting for the left is trendy essentially.
The only way the GOP will survive is they take a more libertarian approach imho. As long as the Christian right has a huge say in the party and the GOP allows them to be a public face of the party, they will never capture the moderate independents. Many of the younger successful folks who are conservative fiscally are not very religious and don’t want to be lumped in with some Todd Akin type even if that is a small part of their platform.
“The only way the GOP will survive is they take a more libertarian approach imho”
I agree, but it won’t be happening anytime soon.
Another reason Mitt lost: he’s less relate-able than Obama on a personal level. Obama brews his own beer, Mitt doesn’t drink. Mitt’s wife’s parents weren’t allowed to attend his super secret Mormon wedding.
The GOP allowed him to buy the nomination despite his many flaws and what was predictable happened. I don’t think Mitt ever even broke 44 on intrade. Not sure what GOP candidate could’ve beaten Obama as their pipeline is light (Bobby Jindal too young, Christie wouldn’t run).
For the R party to survive they need to somehow capture more of the Hispanic vote as W did in 2004. Otherwise losing elections as far out as the eye can see until we’re Greece.
Speaking of Jindal:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83743.html
1st no lender is willing to fund condo development so no point in hoping/planning to build one.
But wow Russ you sound like Rush L – today I heard him carp about the need for conservatives to capture the educational system where liberals have been brainwashing students for 30 years. Rush of course ignores the point of a “liberal” education is to produce a person capable of evaluating diverse viewpoints and then independently choosing the route that makes the most sense to the person. Rush wants to produce lock step sheeple the way fraternities do (yeah Bob’s wrong again – I lived in a frat first semester @ U of I until I figured out if I wasn’t willing to surrender my free will to group think, me & Bob type frat boys weren’t compatible.) I don’t know how the GOP can survive given its constituent makeup – who wants to be part of a party heavily influenced not only by religous rightists/nuts but also Tbaggers and d-bags like Trump, Joe Walsh & joe plumber.
Southbound, you are confusing liberal arts education with liberal political views. Liberal arts education has nothing to do with pushing social justice agendas and other liberal views in schools/universities. The only commonality is the term liberal.
“I lived in a frat first semester @ U of I until I figured out if I wasn’t willing to surrender my free will to group think, me & Bob type frat boys weren’t compatible.) ”
AKA you drank your way out of the greek system or were booted. Or instead found out there was really no fishy business going on in those communal showers as you had hoped so left because of that.
Helmet keeps posting his hatred on this site because we’re a willing audience and we provide immediate feedback. Each time we reply back, it gives him more incentive to spew his intolerance and arrogance. If we ignore, he’ll go away.
Bob – Bro, Bro Bro you are 100% wrong (btw I’ve never used the word ‘Bro’ in any conversation other than with you, you special hillbilly you)! I de-pledged & moved on with my life. One of the reasons I quit was a prevailing misogynist attitude (a lot of people like you Bob who hate every bone in a womans body except your own). Life is too short to spend surrounded by narrow minded d-bags dedicated to group think imo.
“I de-pledged & moved on with my life.”
Don’t confuse not receiving a bid with “de-pledged”. In reality you likely went to a d-bag liberal arts school where they sit around spending tens of thousands of mommy & daddy’s money and racking up the debt and talk about how bad single gender social clubs are, even though they have no idea what they’re all about. Single-gender social clubs don’t tend to do well at d-bag liberal arts institutions with high tuition because to fit in there everyone needs to have the same narrow, skewed view of the world or else one needn’t stand a chance of fitting in. They are factories of self-hating white people, and transfer few employable skills to their attendees.
Like you–they never go far in life.
You never “de-pledged” because thats not even the name for it. I’m calling you out on your utter bullshit on this one, you effete “man”, Southbound.
“Hillybilly”, “Southerner”, etc.: attempts at pejorative words from idiots like Southbound because they think it somehow confers on them a sense of superiority. But I think we know you’re a failure in life Southbound.
Your groupthink learned at your expensive liberal arts school isn’t paying economic dividends in the real world, now is it? 🙂
Russ, I’m curious to know the content of the “more libertarian approach” you’d advocate the GOP take. Would you & Vlajos favor a reduction of federal involvement in mortgage lending? Would you, for example, like to see the GSEs reduce their 90+% share of mortgage underwriting when doing so would reduce the volume of new loan originations (reducing your income) and precipitate a fall in house prices (reducing Vlajos wealth)?
Or do your notions of the “more libertarian approach” consist of reducing the federal subsidies enjoyed by *other* industries (agricultural, health-care, military-industrial, etc.), exempting your own — mortgage lending?
” ‘The only way the GOP will survive is they take a more libertarian approach imho’
I agree, but it won’t be happening anytime soon.”
Why is Europe in a second recession in four years? Why are their countries in so much debt with so high unemployment ? They didn’t have countywide or cdo or ninja arm loans. Ask yourself that question. It’s debt. Too much of it. It’s so bad austerity doesn’t even work. Why Does the us want to emulate a failing system?
Europe’s problem isn’t debt it’s their labor market restrictions and taxation regime. Japan’s problem is debt, and they have a very real recession right now.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324894104578113271953085016.html
Make’s the EU’s technical recession look mild by comparison.
“”fishy business”, “Effete”, etc.: attempts at pejorative words from idiots like Bob because they think it somehow confers on them a sense of superiority. But I think we know you’re a failure at life Bob.”
Fixed that for ya, Bob. What are you, 12? Nobody (except the overly religious, and theHof) gives a flying fuck about anyones sexuality.
“the content of the “more libertarian approach” you’d advocate the GOP take”
C’mon Wojo, it’s not very veiled code for “ignore the religious right”–stop focusing on abortion, immigration, tehgayz, and other “social” issues that turn off people who *might* vote R. It doesn’t mean anything about adopting a Paul-ite view of the government’s role in the economy, which aint winning many votes on a national level.
Russ is right, and Southbound is wrong.
“a prevailing misogynist attitude”
Retarded. You’re gay. So, I suppose sororities hate men and are anti-men too? I’ll bet that greek system members are, on average, more happily married and less divorced and depressed than Southbound’s folk. He can spew his Leftist hate all he wants, deep down he knows he’s the loser.
Hey Dan….close your eyes, I’m going to spew some more hate: “FHA projected to exhaust reserves, could need bailout”
16 Billion:
“The FHA is required to maintain enough cash reserves to cover losses on the mortgages it insures. But in its annual actuarial report to Congress, the agency said a slower-than-anticipated housing market recovery has led its reserves to fall $16.3 billion below anticipated losses.”
Wojo, anon(tfo) summed up my position quite succintly. However, you mistakenly assume that just because government doesn’t do something means that there won’t be alternatives. I have no problem getting rid of RE related subsidies. Everything across the board needs to be cut significantly. The problem is we have too many weak political hacks on both the left and right who are more concerned about their jobs than anything else.
I think more would have bought the GOPs austerity push/tax hike blocks had they been more willing to proactively offer up the right’s sacred cows as well. As somone who would be affected by higher tax rates, I can swallow that bitter pill if I also know there are legitimate efforts being made to cut the other side of the ledger. However, to blunt the left’s criticism, they should have been coming out saying we are going to cut oil & gas, defense, or whatever other things conservatives hold dear so as not to look hypocritical attacking the little guy entitlements.
somebody turned this to politics, not me….
but with regards to the “Religious Right”, don’t sell them so short. They’ve done very good and positive work on the abortion front. Even someone with the dim IQ of a Southbound who has seen an ultrasound knows that it’s a human life. Today, the majority of Americans (not the Southbound types) do believe that the barbaric abortion procedure does kill an innocent human life. People are not yet advanced enough to overturn the degrading and degenerate laws – yet. But the tide has turned against the Dans and Southbounds who like when abortion wins in elections. Today, no hospital will perform abortions, even secular ones, and they are pushed off-site to “clinics”. Nurses refuse to assist at the procedure in hospitals, they draw the line on it. It is increasingly (and understandly) difficult to find a medical doctor who wants to perform the barbaric procedure. As science advances, and intelligence wins out over ignorance, it’s just become increasingly clear that abortion is killing. You can thank the “Religious Right” for sticking to it, and advancing society against the retrograde ideas of the Southbounds of the world. Go see an ultrasound all you liberals destined for a life of childless misery and anger. Clean up your brains, get out of dark ages.
“It doesn’t mean anything about adopting a Paul-ite view of the government’s role in the economy, which aint winning many votes on a national level.”
The moochers, military-industrial-complex, and Wall St. (Federal Reserve) have a complete grip on the country, and none will allow cuts to balance our system. Therefore, we’re already over the fiscal cliff, the question is how are we going to land, and what will the reset be?
Change will only comes via a soviet union-style economic collapse, and then a reset. The above interests will not compromise, they’ve already proven that.
Helmethofer – you are the prime example of why the GOP is losing touch with newer generation voters. I would say that your hatred and failure to examine very complex social issues objectively, but instead as purely right or wrong is “barbaric”.
Dannyhofer, no offense meant by this, but somehow I thought you’d be more pro-abortion.
“Dannyhofer, no offense meant by this, but somehow I thought you’d be more pro-abortion.”
He’s not a GOP platformer. He has his own opinions. he may lean to the right but he’s no republican.
Anti-isreal is not GOP; anti-military industrial complex is not GOP, nor are a handful of his other beliefs, which put him at odds with many tenants of the GOP. There’s a million things not to like about the GOP but blaming Helmet for “losing touch with newer generation voters” is not true.
“groupthink learned at your expensive liberal arts school isn’t paying economic dividends in the real world”
Bob Bro bro bro – your stupidity & lack of reading comprehension is spectacular. What hillbilly school gave you a diploma? As my post states I attended U of I (Bob sound out the letters one by one – it stands for University of IL) which isn’t expensive or liberal arts oriented. Call it what you want – I quit the frat despite strong social pressure to stay. It’s ironic hearing potshots about my accomplishments in life from a unmarried bean counter who has no prospect of making it into the profit production side of life – we eat what we catch here.
“no offense meant by this, but somehow I thought you’d be more pro-abortion.”
Why? don’t listen to these two-faced, hypocritical jews like Elliot, Southbound and Dan #2….if you go to Israel it’s impossible to get an abortion. Gee, wonder why they don’t want them there? It’s ok if bernard nathanson (google him) kills 60,000 Americans, but they wouldn’t let him touch one fetus in Israel.
Sorry Elliot, you’re out of touch. Science is progressing, and everyone now knows how barbaric the procedure is. That’s why nurses won’t assist with it, and doctors don’t want to do it either….unless you’re just another bernard nathanson type….sounds like your could follow in his footsteps backwards Elliot. Abortion is becoming more rare, and for good reason. It’s sad when some “Religious Right” person cares more about the Elliots-of-the-world’s children, than these retrograde people do themselves.
on a lighter note, Milkster, this is for you: http://packagegoods.blogspot.com/
Retarded. You’re gay.”
Dann/helmutthead: Offense meant by this (why fear offending an abject loser who should be terrified that one day the employer(s) of his pizza delivering skill set, his acquaintances (other than members of his delusional white supremacy clique) or his clients will find out what Mr Dann/ Helmut truly believes & says out loud about consequential matters in life): It is hilarious to read the likelihood of ‘my kind’ remaining married and happy from you, an angry hate filled deluded adolescent-minded loser w/ no chance of marrying until you can afford to purchase a desperate mail order bride from E Europe. Until then your blow up doll will have to do while I’m very happily married to my first wife with whom I’ve raised very successful young adults.
helmethofer – I’m jewish? Learn something new every day. “That’s why nurses won’t assist with it, and doctors don’t want to do it either” – I’m sure there are plenty of nurses who object to assisting the procedure but to apply this anecdotal information as general evidence that it’s a barbaric procedure is short sighted.
“Abortion is becoming more rare, and for good reason.” Agreed, thanks to greater access to birth control and contraceptives. Please don’t tell me you’re one of those abstinence-only people…
maybe if you disagree with him helmet automatically decides you are jewish, gay, or of color. he’s archie bunker like that
“while I’m very happily married to my first wife with whom I’ve raised very successful young adults.”
LOL! Successful in your own warped mind, I’m sure. Every mother and father thinks “their own kids” are beautiful, even when it’s obvious to everyone else they’re ugly. Ask your wife if she had an abortion with some other dude long before you. Probably did (statistically speaking). That’s the kind of people you and your crowd are.
“maybe if you disagree with him helmet automatically decides you are jewish, gay, or of color.”
That’s not true. HD often disagrees with me and he’s not any those things, and I don’t call him those things. Nonetheless, I’m rarely wrong about these things. I can peg evil people and usually do so. Hey, on this one, I’m right about 2 out of 3, that 66.6%. I was just playing the odds with “Elliot”. Usually someone who is named Elliot, an aborition lover, and who’s also an angry retrograde leftist misfit is going to be a member of their cult. I now know he’s just a sucker for it instead.
“Ask your wife if she had an abortion with some other dude long before you. ”
That’s awful, just an awful thought. Some dudes don’t care though, they’ll get up in anything.
anon, I don’t know much about Ron Paul’s views, but what little I do know — he said he’d appoint James Grant to head the Fed; Grant has said he’d abolish the Fed — I like. So I think I’d warm up to the GOP if they indeed adopted a more “Paul-ite view of the government’s role in the economy.”
Russ, I still can’t quite make out your thinking, but I appreciate your attempt at trying to enlighten me. I’ll keep reading your posts with interest.
“That’s awful, just an awful thought.”
But why? You get these guys like Southbound and Dan #2 and Elliot and they think having unfettered abortion is a good thing, and that it represents “enlightened” thinking. Southbound won’t care if his wife did that, he won’t care at all. It’s what he wants in a society. It represents advancement to him.
“That’s awful, just an awful thought.”
But why? You get these guys like Southbound and Dan #2 and Elliot and they think having unfettered abortion is a good thing, and that it represents “enlightened” thinking. Southbound won’t care if his wife did that, he won’t care at all. It’s what he wants in a society. It represents advancement to him.
“I’m right about 2 out of 3, that 66.6%”
didnt you just peg Southbound as gay? and who is #3, iirc Dan#2 never hid his religion, or his highland parker status.
“My crowd” & Elliot said “helmethofer – I’m jewish? Learn something new every day….you’re one of those abstinence-only people/”
You give Mr Dann too much credit – his hate filled diatribes apparently need straw men to have internal consistency for him. He converted me to Judaism too which would surprise the sisters and brothers who educated me & Dann (yeah, some liberal brainwashing educational system!) as well as my own sisters & brothers. Unlike Dann I’ve seen real time fetal ultrasounds and unlike Dann, I’ve participated in a real decision when doctors recommended drawing amniotic fluid to test for Down syndrome in a fetus, a procedure with risk of miscarriage which we declined since we were committed to accepting whatever hand God chose to deal. And while dann is likely a fan of abstinence by others he is still desperately trying to get laid (preferably iirc by customers of certain breast augmentation surgeons). What a true scumbag you show yourself to be Dann.
I was almost completely for Ron Paul’s agent – he of anybody has enlightened and advanced thinking – but his agenda worked well in a very libertarian texas dist. and didn’t work on the national level. I had family members who thought he was almost as dangerous as Obama – note ALMOST as dangerous. The fact that he didn’t support isreal and wanted to shrink the military is blasphemy in some (R) circles. His view to legalize drugs is rejected by the same group.
Awwww, you guys.
I wish we could all meet in person.
I feel like if we actually met and had a drink, we might actually get along.
Danny, thank you for that link – it was awesome.
Combines 2 of my favorite activities – walking and socializing.
Those bars remind me of this place:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/peacock-liquors-chicago
It’s close to my Albany Park apartment.
I’ve never seen anything like it in NY.
It’s a combination dive bar and liquor store.
Amazing!
I love Chicago!
We can never meet. It would expose all of us for the frauds that we really are.
How many kids does helmet have? Bets?
Bets for the last time helmet had sex with another human?
Milkster; Thanks for your kindness here. Unlike you I do not favor appeasement. I’d rather watch creatures at the zoo than spend time with envious hate filled cretins like Mr Dann & Bob. Grunts from apes come closer to conveying intelligent thoughts than the lying and ‘decrying’ crap posted by those two . That said there are CC’ers I would enjoy having a beer with & I’m in no danger of being exposed as a fraud. Btw there are lots of slashes in Chicago (dive bar/ liquor stores) – I like Rite Liquors on Division just off Ashland.
“Fixed that for ya, Bob. What are you, 12? Nobody (except the overly religious, and theHof) gives a flying fuck about anyones sexuality.”
Been awhile since you’ve been out of Chicagoland/Madison to the real midwest, eh? LOL.
Point is Southbound is a fraud. Nobody has some sudden epiphany regarding women’s rights while rushing a fraternity and changes their whole paradigm. He’s just an effete man who probably went to a liberal arts school trying to spout off on something he knows nothing about, to be honest.
“Nobody has some sudden epiphany regarding women’s rights while rushing a fraternity and changes their whole paradigm.”
Been a while since you’ve been around people who’ve progressed beyond 8th grade, eh, Bob?
Helmethofer allegedly outted himself in a drunken post a months ago as Dean Olds. Helmet Hofer was his German 26 year old boy toy who killed Dean’s wife but was found not guilty. I can’t find the post where he signed off as Dean Olds, I remember thinking “Wow, this is really weird”.
Back to the topic at hand, “a local” writes that new rentals “are packed with amenities and high end finishes, but the floorplans are small, ackward and don’t lend themselves to long term living much past your 20s.” Publications like Multi Housing News say that this is exactly what they are hearing from Millenial renters: make the complex as much like a dorm as possible, with lots of gathering spaces outside the apartment. The new amenities being offered — coffee bars, bike repair rooms, yoga lounges, roof decks — are relatively cheap on a per-unit basis, but adding 100 sq. ft. per unit significantly hikes the price point. And now that you carry the contents of an entire media room in your pocket, you don’t need that extra space.
LOL!! and you thought you were the master of misdirection with “Niles”. LOL!! You can’t top me, nobody here can. I’m Dr. Chicago to you all.
…except G and Oldman, they’re tops by far.
“Been awhile since you’ve been out of Chicagoland/Madison to the real midwest, eh? LOL”
If I’m reading that correctly, I gather that you feel one should aspire to spending time around the midwest outside of Chicagoland or Madison. I guess I’ll just have to resign myself to failure in your eyes.
Bob:
It figures you’re posting drivel on a Friday @ 9 pm. I understand how jealous you are of people doing better in life. It depresses you to see others be so much more successful at partnering up, raising kids and having great careers. Regarding your latest lie – I did not have any epiphany about women’s rights while living in the frat at U of I. I discovered once I moved into the frat that this house like many frats attracted and retained a significant % of d-bags like you, who have much different values than mine, including my beliefs about women. Even at 18 I believed life is too short to be spent in the company of d-bags so I quit and moved on. You can post all the adolescent slurs you want but the core difference between us is you apparently enjoyed spending a lot of time in the company of like-minded d-bag adolescent frat guys while I did not & do not wish to spend my time with them. Hey bob not that it matters to me but would a shrink find you at least latently gay? That would explain your need to compensate by accusing others. And it also explains why you keep yourself on the downlow by spending time watching strippers – I bet your ability to guess their weight within 2-3 pounds impresses them huh? Different strokes for different folks ya stroke!
“It figures you’re posting drivel on a Friday @ 9 pm. I understand how jealous you are of people doing better in life”
You got booted. And actually posting times have little to do with ascertaining anything other than sleep schedule anymore due to things called smartphones & unlimited plans that can be had for $40/mo. Genius.
“If I’m reading that correctly, I gather that you feel one should aspire to spending time around the midwest outside of Chicagoland or Madison. I guess I’ll just have to resign myself to failure in your eyes.”
Again showing yourself to be the insular sheeple you are. That’s fine. I see how much opportunity there is, especially in the midwest. It’s only the land of milk & honey for those with eyes open. That’s fine–people like you can waste your money on trivial things like having a location east of Halsted/etc, but when you’re no further in life years from now and you see others that are, have no mistake as to it’s source. The meek just want their basics covered and never get far in life.
“people like you can waste your money on trivial things like having a location east of Halsted/etc, but when you’re no further in life years from now and you see others that are, have no mistake as to it’s source. The meek just want their basics covered and never get far in life.”
What’s your definition of “further in life”? I gotta tell ya man (and with all due respect and no offense to those who see things differently), living on the far east side of LP (or the GC, and maybe even LV, if it comes to that) isn’t a function of me trying to living in any especially tony area of Chicago. It’s simply the worst that we’re willing to tolerate. As I’ve said many times on here, were we to suddenly have a change of fortune such that we couldn’t manage to live (in a smallish condo) in Chicago’s best lakefront hoods, our long-term plan wouldn’t be to start a “new life” in some affordable northwest side hood or burb. We’d be moving to another state, none of which, barring some truly amazing opportunity in, say, Madison, A. Arbor, etc., would be in the midwest.
“As I’ve said many times on here, were we to suddenly have a change of fortune such that we couldn’t manage to live (in a smallish condo) in Chicago’s best lakefront hoods, our long-term plan wouldn’t be to start a “new life” in some affordable northwest side hood or burb.”
But if you have a change of fortune and can’t even manage to live in a smallish condo in one of Chicago’s best neighborhoods- how is moving to another state going to help you?
Sure- you could move to California and live in Contra Costa County. To me, that’s worse than living in an affordable northwest side hood or burb. You could live in Riverside, Sacramento, Bakersfield. You see where I’m going with this. You could move to New York City and maybe live in Queens (but those properties are probably more expensive than the smallish Chicago condo!). Where are you saying you could move to and it would be more beautiful with more amenities than where you are right now (for the same price)? Because all the coastal states are MUCH more expensive for an equivalent property to where you are living now (with those amenities/restaurants etc.)
I suppose Austin Texas may qualify. You might be priced out of places like Savannah, Charleston or even New Orleans. You’re priced out of pretty much most of the Bay Area. Could maybe live in Napa- but it would be in some tract style house. Again- I don’t see how that is much better than what you have now.
I don’t really think most people understand how affordable Chicago really is in its “core” areas. I know I live in a neighborhood that would not even be conceivable with my income in any of the big coastal cities (including Washington DC.) To me, it’s one of Chicago’s greatest selling points. Sure, we don’t have the beauty of the mountains. But I’m not running on the treadmill like those poor people in NYC or SF.
“What’s your definition of “further in life”?
Having your offspring automatically provided for and being able to retire by 60 with not a financial worry in the world. But those are longer-term goals. Shorter term: not having to worry about lifestyle being downgraded. Maybe in your field that’s not a worry. In my line of work it certainly is.
“It’s simply the worst that we’re willing to tolerate.”
And this is what boggles my mind. I guess most people just have more job security than me. But when you pick the toniest area of one of the most expensive cities in the MW to live in and then qualify it with “worst that we’re willing to tolerate”. I do hope you’re also considering the future and setting aside some for a rainy day should your life circumstances change. I would throw a temper tantrum on here if big ol’ Uncle Sammy rides to the rescue of said grasshoppers (or should I say continues to ride).
“You might be priced out of places like Savannah, Charleston or even New Orleans. ”
Don’t think that people like anonny could fit in in Savannah or Charleston and just carpet-bag it there. That would be a very fallacious assumption. Regarding N’Olins I don’t know as much about it but it would depend if enough liberal HBO watchers love Treme enough to think its reality in NOLA and move there en masse. I can give an iron clad guarantee anonny and his ilk would _hate_ Charleston and probably Savannah too. Hell I would love to watch a reality TV show of a family’s like his moving there.
“I live in a neighborhood that would not even be conceivable with my income in any of the big coastal cities (including Washington DC.)”
DC Is funny and let’s be honest: it’s like Chicago except the black south side hoods are 95% of it and the green zone is ~5%. So obviously the green zone there is going to be more expensive. There’s less space for wonder-bread types to continue to live the fairy tale that we’re all the same. Heck maybe (and I’m guessing here) the Georgetown types are more aware of reality than wonder bread Chicago Northsiders as they are literally surrounded by dangerous ghettos and poverty to the point where it must be hard to try to ignore it exists. This reality has to creep into daily life more than in Lincoln Park or Lakeview I’d imagine.
Keep in mind that a relatively small percentage of the entire geographical area’s population lives in the GZ. Even manhattan is on a little over a million people. Most people live north or on Long Island or jersey etc. I was in mt prospect a few days ago and it has a high Korean community. 20 years ago they would have as a community lived in the city. Today they live in spilt levels in the suburbs.
I’ve noticed in my travels and looking at real estate in a variety of major cities that Chicago is relatively cheap. Also, the desirable neighborhoods, regardless of the city, all have similar price points (unless you are in uber expensive cities like SF or NYC). I’m from Atlanta and while it is cheaper overall at a macro level, the hoods that we would actually want to live in aren’t significantly cheaper than Chicago.
really? my buddies down there have nice homes in buckhead. what would be the equivalent chicago hood bc one place is 4000 sqr feet with a ton of land and it’s about a million. the other place is new, 3000 sqft, also in buckhead but tiny lot in new development. 600k for that one.
either of them in lp or lakeview would be double the price imo.
I don’t recall ever sharing my opinion on abortion on CC. I’ll keep it to myself.
“[L]iving on the far east side of LP (or the GC, and maybe even LV, if it comes to that) isn’t a function of me trying to living in any especially tony area of Chicago. It’s simply the worst that we’re willing to tolerate.”
What about your aspirations for a 4S vacation ownership lifestyle? Is that a taste for tony-ness or just the worst you’re willing to (aspirationally) tolerate?
“What about your aspirations for a 4S vacation ownership lifestyle? Is that a taste for tony-ness or just the worst you’re willing to (aspirationally) tolerate?”
Both, I guess. Note that, as far as my wildest druthers go, I wouldn’t be spending weeks at a time at, say, the 4S Philly.
anonny = db imho
olic = hnp (humorless native Philadelphian)?
Bubba Bob said “Shorter term: not having to worry about lifestyle being downgraded. Maybe in your field that’s not a worry. In my line of work it certainly is….. I guess most people just have more job security than me.” I’ll offer free advice – first you need to improve your ability to read & interpret people’s statements & motives. EX: If I decided to lie I’d pick a better alma mater than U of I (either of the great private schools most of my kids attended would top my list). Next you must improve at delivering your employer, partners or clients measurable profit or cost savings cost effectively. In 2008 r.e. development was killed by lenders and our economy. My draw was lowered to 37% of previous amount and 2/3rd’s of co-workers were let go. I didn’t complain (much). I lowered outgo, spent savings & transformed (among other roles) into the guy who resolved inability to pay as contractually agreed stalemates on upside down developments. I drove my ‘effete’ self (who uses that word Bob?) to offices of excavators, paving companies, electricians, consultants, etc and sold the benefit of resolving stalemate if everyone agreed to settle for 66 cents /dollar owed so lender would fund. Guys much larger than you dealt harsh words but I pointed out we both knew their options – pursue remedies (lien, foreclose & then settle) or settle now for immediate certainty. An incredulous paving co. owner asked who forced me to drive to his office and asked if I realized I had the most miserable job in America. I believe anyone asked to take a big haircut deserves a face to face request & explanation. I said my former do-workers would gladly take my place in exchange for a shot at another month pay & benefits. Rationality generally rules – I delivered. Over time things improved & I’m focused on more positive tasks now but support staff, one trick ponies, and MBA types are long gone here. People who reliably deliver measurable profits or cost savings cost effectively are always in demand. Good luck.