Market Conditions: It Paid to Bet on Andersonville in 2000
Crain’s is reporting that the Andersonville zip code in Uptown saw the largest price appreciation for single family homes from the fourth quarter of 2000 to the fourth quarter of 2010 out of 225 Chicago area zip codes.
The data includes the recent price declines.
Here’s the top ten list:
- Uptown/Andersonville (60640): 39.3%
- Lincoln Square/Ravenswood (60625): 38.2%
- Irving Park/Belmont Gardens (60618): 37.9%
- Garfield Park (60612): 35.9%
- Pilsen (60608): 35.6%
- Rogers Park (60660): 34.5%
- West Town (60622): 33.8%
- Old Town/Gold Coast (60610): 33.2%
- Downers Grove (60515): 32.5%
- Bucktown (60647): 32%
In Downers Grove, that zip code is on the north side of the city near the train stations and the shops/restaurants of downtown.
“So many more families are wanting to stay in the city, and prices in those areas have gotten astronomically high,” says Thaddeus Wong, co-founder of local residential brokerage @properties.
Indeed, neighborhoods like Andersonville and Lincoln Square are a lot less affordable now than they were in 2000. Lincoln Square’s 60625 zip code had the 13th-highest median home price among Chicago-area zip codes, $548,000, while 60640 (Uptown/Andersonville) ranked 14th, at $540,000. The highest: Glencoe’s 60022, at $952,000, followed by the 60614 zip-code in Lincoln Park, at $945,000.
“People that were priced out of neighborhoods (like Bucktown and Wicker Park) were seeing Uptown as a sort of fringe — probably a similar dynamic was going on in Garfield Park,” says Philip Ashton, an assistant professor of urban planning and policy at the University of Illinois at Chicago. “In a lot of cases, demand exceeded supply in a lot of targeted neighborhoods.”
The influx of young professionals, meanwhile, attracted retailers, further boosting the appeal of the neighborhoods.
“With all the more commercial (development), it makes the neighborhood more desirable to live in,” says Jeanne Carava, a broker with Prudential Rubloff Properties who’s had listings near Andersonville for 15 years. “When the first Starbucks went in (in Andersonville), there was just a lot more confidence.”
Mr. Ashton of UIC expects prices to continue their slide, predicting that some neighborhoods like Pilsen and Garfield Park may even fall below 2001 levels.
“We still got a long way to go for some areas in the city,” he says.
What happens to the neighborhoods like Andersonville and Lincoln Square now that prices have soared and the area is now among the MOST expensive (and is no longer considered “affordable”)?
Will they become like Lincoln Park- which actually has seen little appreciation over the last 10 years, even before the bust, because it was already a “mature” neighborhood?
What neighborhood will people move to next to get “bargains”?
Uptown sees decade’s biggest uptick in home prices [Crain’s Chicago Business, Frank Kalman, June 2, 2011]
My predictions regarding keeping their premiums:
Uptown: no
Andersonville: yes (it’s known as an enclave appealing to a particular set which has more disposable income).
Lincoln Square/Ravenswood: yes (its where yuppies move who feel too old for LP and don’t want to live west of the river among the pierced/tattooed hipster set).
Bucktown: yes (its gentrified since 2000 I am told, its full on gentrified the parts I’ve ever seen).
The rest: not a chance. They were either already matured & gentrified back in 2000 (ie: Gold Coast) or it was ridiculous thinking such areas that far from downtown could ever become the next hot neighborhoods.
Also my predictions are based on keeping that listed premium relative to 2000 prices over the next 10 years, NOT in relation to any sort of current ask prices (ie: 525k crapshack in Bucktown lmao).
Prices will fall for sfh in the recently gentrified areas when the children of the early adopters reach jr high age because there are so few suitable middle class high school options in most of these areas. It may have already happened. Instead of a crib in the second bedroom, look for teeny bopper posters or sports and car posters on the wall which is a dead giveaway for an 11 or 12 year old….
HD, sounds like you are out of your bottom call.
Anyone who is aware of recent economic data knows that keeping a premium means just not falling as fast.
“What neighborhood will people move to next to get “bargains”?”
in this exact order,
Highland Park
Berwyn
Pingree Grove
Osweego
Portage
Dunning
Schorsh Village
Galewood
Yeah I called the bottom for a day but that was the result of a bad trip, man. I’m back to reality now.
ahh.. Thanks for the info HD. Now i may trip in peace this evening, just gotta find my Live at the Fillmore East cassette first.
“What neighborhood will people move to next to get “bargains”?”
People only moved out to the “frontier” neighborhoods because they were priced out. So unless job growth/population/prices pick up and people are priced out, Bob is right.
If by some unlikely chance the economy grows 8% per year from now til 2015, then I’d follow these rules—1) follow the L tracks, 2) Chicagoans would rather be a minority in an ethnic European/ Hispanic neighborhood than an African-American one. …so that leads to Pilsen and the Northwest Side.
Man Sabrina I’m hurt, dissing on my Uptown? It paid to bet on “UPTOWN/Andersonville.”
It’ll be interesting to see the corresponding study that looks at how much values have dropped in 60640 in the last 3 years. Condos in this area are selling (if they’re selling at all) for 30% (or more) below 2005-2007 prices.
The housing bubble was merely a blip in the long term towards an exedous to the suburbs.
I wouldn’t write Uptown off. They might just be able to clean up the couple troublesome areas now that they have a new alderman…
I said a few months back that I would bet on Uptown too. It has beautiful housing stock, proximity to the lake, good el and express buses and it’s the logical next place to look for a lot of people who are priced out of Lincoln Park or Lakeview. The bad part of Uptown is really very small, and that area will continue to improve with Target and all the Asian businesses in the area and if local residents take an active interest in things.
When I moved to Brooklyn, areas like Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Carroll Gardens, Prospect Heights and Downtown Brooklyn around Fulton Street were rough and undesireable. But property appreciation in the surrounding areas and improvement of the business districts pushed the dicey areas to gentrify too.
I think Logan Square would be a good investment. Neighborhood has good transportation and is taking off. Also that area between Wrigleyville and Andersonville (Ravenswood Manor?) should come up in my opinion. Finally I’ll put money on Ukranian Village moving higher.
oops i forget Avondale just above portage park.
“Irving Park/Belmont Gardens (60618): 37.9%”
Belmont Gardens? These people need to hire some basic fact-checkers. 60618 is Diversey to Irving and Damen to Pulaski. I got one word for y’all:
AVONDALE
As for this, HD, come on now, do you even have any kids? You seem a bit oblivious to the wealth of options in Chicago, at least on the north side.
“Prices will fall for sfh in the recently gentrified areas when the children of the early adopters reach jr high age because there are so few suitable middle class high school options in most of these areas.”
No way they’re going to get rid of the 4550 N clarendon buildings in uptown or the other handful of problem buildings. its not so much the residents of the buildings but their children who roam the streets of uptown selling drugs and starting fights.
Well, in NY we had Mayor Giuliani too. That helped.
Yes I do have kids. And I also know that there is not a ‘wealth’ of options. There are options, most of which require a lottery for admission or money, from catholic to latin/parker for private schooling. There are almost no options to just ‘send them to the local public school’ as it exists in the suburbs, and most assuredly not in the some of the gentrifying neighborhoods like andersonville, avondale, pilsen, garfield park, or most neighborhoods on that list.
“As for this, HD, come on now, do you even have any kids? You seem a bit oblivious to the wealth of options in Chicago, at least on the north side.”
Bob is right, although I do see Uptown as having a small chance now that Aldercritter Schiller is gone its sure as hell a lot nicer than it was 10 years ago!
Follow the gays.
They are pioneers who historically are very good at finding the new neighborhoods, moving in and improving the housing stock and community.
And sorry, this is just incorrect. Many people like myself simply weren’t easily fooled by shiny objects like fancy refrigerators we didn’t need. So it came down to small place in congested neighborhood that admittedly had less tagging, gang activity, etc. Or, bigger place and green space a bit further out.
Buying in this alleged “green zone” is a lot like buying a new car – you are paying a premium for something that isn’t really tangible. You don’t get better city services (total myth) or other infrastructure, and the schools are increasingly better, but they are also open to people from outside the GZ, albeit you gotta work for it.
“People only moved out to the “frontier” neighborhoods because they were priced out.”
I had my doubts in Uptown, but condo prices seemed to have leveled out for awhile. I think the new Target is making the neighborhood more attractive to potential buyers, and there’s a lot of small businesses coming into the mix. I was super shocked to see this duplex down go under contract in less than 3 weeks, listed considerably above the 2010 purchase price.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4447-N-Magnolia-Ave-60640/unit-1/home/39778484
HD, where are your kids going & how old are they? I’m actually much happier with Chicago than any given suburb as at least here you have options – in a suburb, the local may be good on paper, but if it isn’t a good fit for any one of a hundred reasons, you are SOL.
Not to mention you gotta drive to most of those schools – what is it with the outer ring & beyond and their hatred of sidewalks?
The public high school in my area (the 60641 zip of Irving Park above) is Schurz. The school was great in the 1950’s. Today, not so much. Not an option. St. Bens or some of the other parochial schools seems to be where the neighborhood kids go, but, there aren’t too many neighborhood high school kids around.
What’s the public high school for bucktown and west town? Clemente? My sister’s good friend’s husband has been a janitor at the school for 20 years and the kids and the athmosphere is a disaster in there and I’ve heard stories.
“What’s the public high school for bucktown and west town?”
There is talk about trying to get a new HS, probably continuation of IB program at Pulaski.
I remember logan having a +35% year at some point. maybe that was pre 2000.
the target in uptown is nice. but the drive west from lsd to get there is sketchtown central. if the new alderman isnt a rudy G disciple on steroids, it might take a while.
My baby is much younger, not school age, which is why my timeline to buy a house got pushed back.
As a six year resident of Uptown moving in a month, I am surprised that people are so optimistic about Uptown. None of my neighbors are. We are all ready to flee the area, as crime has gotten substantially worse in the six years we’ve lived in Uptown. However, most of my neighbors are now stuck in Uptown because they can’t afford to sell their condos.
“My baby is much younger, not school age, which is why my timeline to buy a house got pushed back.”
Got “pushed back” because your child de-aged into a baby?
60640 in Uptown is a big zip code. Large parts of that zip code have been a disaster. This is a clear case of the headline misleading.
Not true in my suburb (Naperville). Although the high schools are excellent, many parents choose to send their kids to Benet Academy. And if you live too far to walk, bus transportation is available for those who don’t choose to drive to school. You shouldn’t make assumptions about things you don’t know.
“HD, where are your kids going & how old are they? I’m actually much happier with Chicago than any given suburb as at least here you have options – in a suburb, the local may be good on paper, but if it isn’t a good fit for any one of a hundred reasons, you are SOL.
Not to mention you gotta drive to most of those schools – what is it with the outer ring & beyond and their hatred of sidewalks?”
I don’t know where my baby will go to school, I’ve got a couple of years to figure it out. depending on where i live, st. viators, wildwood, edgebrook, belding, disney ii, park ridge elementary schools, that’s all I can think of now. I have no desire to live in lakeview again, been there, done that lifestyle.
“Belmont Gardens? These people need to hire some basic fact-checkers. 60618 is Diversey to Irving and Damen to Pulaski. I got one word for y’all:
AVONDALE”
It’s actually Diversey to Montrose. It’s basically all of North Center, too.
“drive west from lsd to” Target on Montrose “is sketchtown central.”
Please. Wilson, sure. Lawrence, sure. Montrose? GTFOOH. Is it the vacant Maryville that’s too skeevy? Or the Dearborn Grocers? Nothing bad *driving* along Montrose there. Walking, especially at night, may be a different story.
“I don’t know where my baby will go to school, I’ve got a couple of years to figure it out.”
I understand that you have a longer time to decide because your kid is just a baby. I don’t understand how the baby “pushed back” your timeline (it could be that you would have bought before the possibility of child(ren), not worrying too much about what you would with them, but that doesn’t seem like you).
Yes, I’m nitpicking.
I was ready to buy a few years ago, then baby, then we decided let’s “just wait a little longer and see how this bust plays out now that we’ve got literally tens of thousands of dollars a year in additional expenses that we didn’t have before, between the daycare, the nanny, diapers, food, extra ins, life ins., school expenses, etc.”
A lot of people rush out and buy shortly before or shortly after baby #1, or want to upgrade from condo to house after baby #1; but I’m in a pretty good position right now and I’d be insanely crazy not to parlay it into an even better position. Good stable jobs, cheap spacious apartment, low overhead, plenty of savings. There’s no reason to get ahead of myself and commit to an elementary school today when I can do that tomorrow or the day after that.
I think it is hard for alot of these newer areas to hold their value because of what HD is talking about. A certain percentage, perhaps a majority, of people are going to have kids…once they do and Lack of Middle Schools/ High Schools becomes a problem they have to flip out of the home and in todays reality that is not how you build wealth. I would live in Uk Village/Wicker Park in a heart beat if the schools were good and then the hipsters would move on to HP or Garfield Park and the ball would keep rolling…but that is not going to happen. So this social issues of poor school choices is what stops Chicago from further geographical gentrification–not demand (otherwise) or economic factors. As an aside–Groove are those hoods even in Chicago?–J/K
Pushed back because I would have been ready to buy during or shortly after the pregnancy. But after the pregnancy, we decided to just wait it out instead of buying like most people end up doing (and I know plenty of people that got house bug after a baby). Now that the house bug passed, I’m got more issues to worry about than space; elementary school is the biggest issue.
“DZ on June 3rd, 2011 at 8:31 am
“I don’t know where my baby will go to school, I’ve got a couple of years to figure it out.”
I understand that you have a longer time to decide because your kid is just a baby. I don’t understand how the baby “pushed back” your timeline (it could be that you would have bought before the possibility of child(ren), not worrying too much about what you would with them, but that doesn’t seem like you).
Yes, I’m nitpicking.”
I agree with Jason. I’ve always liked wicker park and bucktown. I would buy there in a heartbeat if I knew there were decent schooling options for the long term. But there aren’t.
In fact this weekend I’m visiting friends who bought a house right after baby #1, and they bought in a somewhat undesirable area simply because it’s what they could afford at the time they caught the housing bug.
“Lack of Middle Schools/ High Schools becomes a problem”
There is no such thing as “lack of middle schools” in Chicago. The elementary schools go thru 8th grade.
Lack of HS is an issue, but there is an organization building support for turning LVHS into a viable option, and they seem to be planning to extend that to Amundsen and Senn thereafter. Might not work, but it’s based on the same concept as the variously successful elem school turnarounds on the north side.
HD, seconded on that notion. We are wildly happy that we didn’t buy when pregnant. Now that our little bundle is out it turns out there are a lot more service level things she will need that we never even considered and we are for sure losing an income. FYI CPS and special ed are not a great combo – looks like it is burbland for us, sadly.
You do not need to be a homeowner for your life to move ahead, in some cases owning a home can be what holds you back. When you are looking at kids, you can anticipate just about anything and get something completely different. We are thankful to be cash heavy with lots of options rather than the alternative if we had gone through with a purchase that, at the time, seemed like a long term win.
“The elementary schools go thru 8th grade.” –Right but the difference in quality becomes more apparently in 5th-8th..So a school where 1st grade was passable becomes unacceptable as the school is unable to match JR High Level expectations.
I don’t have the time to point out specific schools, but if you look, the demographics of elementary schools change dramatically from the time your baby starts the K class until reach 8th grade. What this means is that the neighborhood kids who start kindergarten mostly leave the school before they reach 8th grade and presumably move elsewhere, probably the suburbs. The school report cards are online at the CPS website.
“I agree with Jason. I’ve always liked wicker park and bucktown. I would buy there in a heartbeat if I knew there were decent schooling options for the long term. But there aren’t.”
You should take a close look at Pulaski elem. It’s at least in the running for me. If by long term you mean a close to certain option for HS, then you might as well rule out the city entirely as no where you are contemplating in the city has a viable neighborhood CPS HS. As I said, there is talk (and a little more than talk) of trying to get a HS leveraged off Pulaski. Extremely uncertain, of course.
“I don’t have the time to point out specific schools, but if you look, the demographics of elementary schools change dramatically from the time your baby starts the K class until reach 8th grade. What this means is that the neighborhood kids who start kindergarten mostly leave the school before they reach 8th grade and presumably move elsewhere, probably the suburbs.”
You don’t think some/most of this effect is from schools “turning around”, which invariably starts in the lower grades, and not having fully turned around yet?
“Right but the difference in quality becomes more apparently in 5th-8th”
Um, give an actual example?
And make sure it’s a school that has 90%+ neighborhood kids in 5-8 right now, rather than mainly the same students as “pre-turn-around”. TIA.
Or was “apparently” the correct word, because you’re saying that based on reports from people who also don’t really know?
“The housing bubble was merely a blip in the long term towards an exedous to the suburbs.”
I disagree with this. When you look at most European cities, you typically see a vibrant downtown and surrounding areas, and then you have ghettos and slums further away from the downtown of the city. My bet is that most American cities end up similarly, where the inner ring of areas surrounding downtown has a lot of residents (people who enjoy city life and/or work downtown), the outer ring of the city remains depressed, and you have suburbs for people who don’t like the city or who work in the suburbs. NYC already arguably fits into this pattern. Each city will have its own quirks (e.g., Chicago because of its residency requirements for gov works will have enclaves in the outer ring, and likely will have more people in longer stretches north and south of downtown because of the lake), but I do not think we’ll an “exodus” to the suburbs.
“You don’t think some/most of this effect is from schools “turning around”, which invariably starts in the lower grades, and not having fully turned around yet?”
Of course he doesn’t DZ. He’s made that plain again and again and again when this discussion happens.
“and we are for sure losing an income. ”
That’s a big thing. An enormous thing. Sure I could afford a large mortgage but lose an income for a few months and I’ll burn through cash savings in no time. No way am I tying my housing situation to two incomes; another round of layoffs in a double dip recession and one of those incomes could go bye-bye but the hefty mortgage remains the same.
I had a guy come into my office yesterday, works two jobs to afford his $425,000 mortgage on a house worth $325,000 today. He says “I’m too old to work two jobs. I want to walk away.” Just like that, add another 30+ DQ to the stats, and in 90 days its another 90+ DQ …. that’s how it happens.
“Of course he doesn’t DZ. He’s made that plain again and again and again when this discussion happens.”
Somehow, I really have missed that. It’s not an implausible hypothesis, but he’d have to show that these schools are stuck over time in the same pattern.
“CPS and special ed are not a great combo”
This is very true. And hope all turns out well for your family, FRV.
Again LP has a viable High School, but not everybody wants to live in LP. What is funny is that high quality SFH in places like wicker park/Logan Square/ UK Village are comparable to LP (That is you get a 1 million plus pretty quick (above that is a different story of course)) Add in Private high school and you’d be better off in LP even if your heart belonged west of the river.
“and likely will have more people in longer stretches north and south of downtown because of the lake)”
so the chain of lakes will be the new vibrant area to live?
aw jeez tfo you really want me to sound like clio on western because one of the routes isnt sketchy but one is.
“but I do not think we’ll an “exodus” to the suburbs.”
look at census stats since 1950 and you’ll see that this is not applicable. One hipster moving to logan from Michigan doesn’t offset a family of four moving from lakeview to naperville. or the exedous from the south suburbs.
“Somehow, I really have missed that.”
Oh. He hasn’t made the *basis* of his non-belief apparent, rather that he doesn’t believe that the schools are turning around. He believes he and those he knows with kids are the norm (which they may be) and that there aren’t enough parents who will stick with a possibly bumpy turnaround to make it work (maybe) and he *really* doesn’t trust CPS not to f’ it up (a reasonable concern, I must admit, but less so with Rahm than with any prior mayor).
In Highland Park, at least, there are plenty of sidewalks and kids can walk to school (mine do). But outer ring is another story. Not sure why they’re allergic to sidewalks out there, but it’s certainly not conducive to building friendly neighborhoods. I feel sorry for people who live in such places.
anon(tfo) – wildwood elementary. No turn around effect there
https://research.cps.k12.il.us/resweb/PageServlet?page=schoolprofile&class=profile.SchoolProfile&schlid=610230
Is this post about the next hot neighborhood or HD’s children and housing choices? (kidding)
just tossing it out there,
but twinkle toes cut saved 110k (really more) by canceling the fireworks. (f’ing baztard)
and plans to cut 75 mil from CPS’s “administrative” part.
hmmmmmm an already stressed and over crowding CPS is getting a cut that wont be reinvested elsewhere thought CPS. lets see how this all pans out?
i am lucky i have a few more years to see the trend line before i decide to put on my walking shoes.
OK I’m done for the day, I got stuff I gotta do, places to see, people to meet. adios.
LOFL – neither should you, because you’re starting assumption that Naperville is a suburb is flawed from the start.
I have friends in Naperville & I hear lots of good things, but it is a very large city and extremely far away from Chicago. It’s a suburb the way Kenosha is. As in, it’s not. That’s a compliment, btw.
What exactly are you doing on a Chicago housing market blog?
“Not true in my suburb (Naperville). Although the high schools are excellent, many parents choose to send their kids to Benet Academy. And if you live too far to walk, bus transportation is available for those who don’t choose to drive to school. You shouldn’t make assumptions about things you don’t know.”
“And make sure it’s a school that has 90%+ neighborhood kids in 5-8 right now, rather than mainly the same students as “pre-turn-around”. TIA.”–Pre turn around is a risk. Here is an example: Burr–
http://www.cps.edu/Schools/Pages/school.aspx?unit=2530
It’s small only 249 kids, so you’d think it would be easy to get a handful of neighborhood kids, and you have 1 million dollar SFH homes on Elk Grove Avenue close by. So this is an average school pre-turn around. Not sure how I’d feel about it come 4th grade…
anon, 60618 goes to Montrose? Makes sense, the map I saw only showed Irving. Either way, “Belmont Gardens” doesn’t really make sense, as you stated, North Center/Avondale/Irving Park is more accurate.
HD – Schurz blows. I have a friend who teaches there, he wants out. But you have options, Lane, magnets, etc.
Right. I know it’s not really accurate to generalize as there are exceptions, but let’s be honest here – the further away you get from Chicago, the more car-dependent you are.
And this has education implications, as in suburbs with good schools I’m familiar with, there aren’t as many private options – and why would there be a lot of private schools when the public school is good? Low demand = low supply.
“In Highland Park, at least, there are plenty of sidewalks and kids can walk to school (mine do). But outer ring is another story. Not sure why they’re allergic to sidewalks out there, but it’s certainly not conducive to building friendly neighborhoods. I feel sorry for people who live in such places.”
OK call me crazy because I don’t have kids yet so I’m sure that I just don’t get it… but why does it matter where your kids go to elementary school? Is it a matter of safety and hanging out with the right crowd of kids, or does it really matter where your kids learn their ABCs and multiplication tables? My memories of elementary school are learning about deciduous trees, cursive writing, the history of thanksgiving, and other useless crap
DC, that’s how I remember it too, but as it turns out, elem school has a pretty significant impact on how one does in high school.
“but as it turns out, elem school has a pretty significant impact on how one does in high school.”
do you know how this was tested? i would question causation/correlation.
“aw jeez tfo you really want me to sound like clio on western because one of the routes isnt sketchy but one is.”
I was just shocked that someone called Montrose “sketchtown central”, and I didn’t know why someone would use Wilson to get from LSD to that Target–did not compute.
Half hour ride on the Metra is “extremely far away”? Not exactly Kenosha. I lived in Chicago for many years and have family in the area. I own real estate, and reading this blog convinces me that any urge to move back to the city (or extending my exposure holdings in real estate at all for that matter) is premature. Why wouldn’t I be interested in a Chicago housing blog, especially when misinformed people such as yourself are saying things about the suburbs that are not true?
“I have friends in Naperville & I hear lots of good things, but it is a very large city and extremely far away from Chicago. It’s a suburb the way Kenosha is. As in, it’s not. That’s a compliment, btw.’
“anon(tfo) – wildwood elementary. No turn around effect there”
What is that supposed to show? The test scores are pretty even, especially when you check the racial crosstabs, and the *largest* class is 6th grade–so no exodus for middle school.
From k-8, class sizes are 32, 29, 28, 25, 33, 31, 35, 28.5, 30–pretty damn even.
“I have friends in Naperville & I hear lots of good things, but it is a very large city and extremely far away from Chicago. It’s a suburb the way Kenosha is. As in, it’s not. That’s a compliment, btw.”
Metra Express Naperville-Union Station 35 min
Metra Kenosha-NW Station 90-115 min
“Pre turn around is a risk. Here is an example: Burr–”
School is still 83.5% low income; each of the classes from 3-8 has fewer than 10 kids who don’t qualify for free/reduced lunch. It’s not even close to turn around, no matter how expensive teh houses nearby are.
juliana loves to come on this blog once every few weeks and brag about how awesome Naperville is.
Juliana, the fastest metra I see from the naperville stop is 33 minutes, all express trains. Then again for commuting don’t forget the door to door times will probably be closer to an hour, since who would dare slum it near the tracks in Naperville!
The rest of the trains (weekends and non rush hour trains have no express trains) are anywhere from 50-70 minute rides. Add in a short 10 minute door to station time and you’re looking at a loooong commute.
Then again, some people are willing to sacrifice that to have great schools for their kids and a safe, non diverse upbringing. There’s nothing wrong with that, its just not for everyone, and more than likely going to be an unpopular opinion on an urban real estate blog such as this one.
“since who would dare slum it near the tracks in Naperville! ”
I think I could deal with living here:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Naperville/340-Spring-Ave-60540/home/39860164
if I could deal with Naperville. Should be an easy 10 minute walk.
Thats not true. I only comment about Naperville to correct misinformed people.
“juliana loves to come on this blog once every few weeks and brag about how awesome Naperville is.”
Commuters are able to take advantage of the express trains that run during rush hour. That was 45 minutes for us, shorter for those in walking distance of the train, further for those further out. And homes near the station are nice, especially the historic district, no slums that I know of.
The rest of the time, we take our laptops or books and enjoy a cool, comfortable ride into the city. What a difference from CTA.
“Juliana, the fastest metra I see from the naperville stop is 33 minutes, all express trains. Then again for commuting don’t forget the door to door times will probably be closer to an hour, since who would dare slum it near the tracks in Naperville!
The rest of the trains (weekends and non rush hour trains have no express trains) are anywhere from 50-70 minute rides. Add in a short 10 minute door to station time and you’re looking at a loooong commute.
Then again, some people are willing to sacrifice that to have great schools for their kids and a safe, non diverse upbringing. There’s nothing wrong with that, its just not for everyone, and more than likely going to be an unpopular opinion on an urban real estate blog such as this one.
Naperville is over 40 miles from Chicago and has a population of over 140,000.
if you want to pigeonhole yourself into the category of car-dependent suburbs, be my guest, but I have no idea why you would.
my comparison to Kenosha was it’s a bona-fide self-sustaining city in terms of a job base.
my idea of an outer-ring suburb is a place which is residential – there are no industries in “North Barrington” and those soulless places. like I said, they all vary, but at the end of the day none of them have infrastructure like Chicago, which gets back to my (cough) original point that in Chicago you have lots of school choices in a very close proximity, WITHOUT driving.
and busing kids IS driving, btw., you’re just paying someone else to do it.
and if you don’t like hearing about a Chicagoan’s perspective on the burbs, you’re in the wrong place. I and many other folks get sick and tired of the constant “the City sucks, the suburbs are better” bs.
I swear, only suburbanites have the audacity to think their opinion about Chicago should count while also thinking the opposite doesn’t hold true…
btw, from Wikipedia, which I suppose backs your point and mine:
As a typical American suburb, the main mode of transportation is via AUTOMOBILE. The Ronald Reagan Memorial Tollway (the tolled portion of Interstate 88) runs near the north edge of Naperville, and Interstate 55 runs south of the city, through Bolingbrook and Romeoville.
“Metra Express Naperville-Union Station 35 min”
“slums” was sarcasm, obviously all of naperville is pretty nice, my parents live in wheaton so I know the area quite well
I’d just like to know what your point is. I’m guessing you’re just easily offended, in which case you definitely don’t belong in Chicago.
“Thats not true. I only comment about Naperville to correct misinformed people.”
I dated a girl in college who dragged me out there as her parents split and one relocated from Evanston to Naperville.
She despised it, it was a horrible culture shock for her.
“obviously all of naperville is pretty nice”
and also I was trying to say that naperville is such a huge sprawled out town, most people probably live 20+ minutes (in traffic) from the naperville train station.
All I hear is bitter jealousy from those stuck in Chicago. I’m not hating on the city. I’m just defending my suburb. Why do you need to hate on the ‘burbs? Are you stuck underwater in a 2/2 with a kid on the way or something?
how can you find out how many neighborhood kid vs. outside neighborhood there are in a school?
Juliana, definitely no jealous, let alone bitter, for those in the suburbs. there are other ways to live besides suburban living. I’m born and raised in Chicago and can’t imagine not raising my family in the same way. But if you love the burbs, then by all means have at it. live and let live (and that goes for city folks hating on the burbs too!).
back to the topic:
“What happens to the neighborhoods like Andersonville and Lincoln Square now that prices have soared and the area is now among the MOST expensive (and is no longer considered “affordable”)?”
* the growth may slow down, but a lot of people have already put down roots, and eventually have kids who grow up the same way I did, as City kids.
“Will they become like Lincoln Park- which actually has seen little appreciation over the last 10 years, even before the bust, because it was already a “mature” neighborhood?”
Depends what you mean by “like” Lincoln Park. That’s a college level course IMO.
“What neighborhood will people move to next to get “bargains”?”
I don’t believe in bargains, you get what you pay for. We just don’t all value the same things equally. I don’t place a huge premium on things that are old hat to me (proximity to boutiques, clubs, etc), I paid somewhat of a premium to be very close to I-94, a solid L line (Blue) that I knew would always be functional due to it connecting O’Hare and the Loop, and main arteries that have bike lanes (Elston) and regular/frequent bus service.
“Why wouldn’t I be interested in a Chicago housing blog, especially when misinformed people such as yourself are saying things about the suburbs that are not true? ”
yes you missinformed bastardz the suburbs are a great place to let your soul slowly die.
hey i heard the metra parking spots in naperville are a two year waitlist
This may come as a surprise, but the most burb-hating in my life comes from kids who grew up in the suburbs and who now live in the City.
I’m most definitely not stuck, my wife (from the burbs) & I have 150-200K of equity in our house, and are actually planning on putting about $100K into a substantial renovation.
I grew up in Lake View and Lincoln Park, while families all around us were doing the white flight thing in the 70s. I’m politically active, volunteer all over the place,
So pardon my arrogance, but frankly most people coming into the City have a hell of a lot more to learn from me than the other way around.
“All I hear is bitter jealousy from those stuck in Chicago.”
So, you’re deaf in one ear and 75% deaf in the other? I’m sorry.
right on skeptic. born and raised in Lakeview here.
“how can you find out how many neighborhood kid vs. outside neighborhood there are in a school?”
Talk to the office/current parents is the best way. Observe the ratio of walking v. driving/busing kids is a cruder method.
“This may come as a surprise, but the most burb-hating in my life comes from kids who grew up in the suburbs and who now live in the City.”–True. The suburban kids having nothing to do but drive around and wait for there parents to be gone the weekend. For many, It is a very unproductive existence, at a time when they need to begin breaking away from their parents–although some parents stil manage to control their child’s schedule pretty tightly–then they go loco when the go to the state school. City is a great place for kids with good families.
“hey i heard the metra parking spots in naperville are a two year waitlist”–Not sure if this is true but Lisle is at 5 years–no joke. If you don’t park on the street before 5:45–your trying to work with pace or waking up wifey and kiddies. Suburban Metra only works for a small percentage of peak time commuters.
Oh yeah, about this Fiserv report…
It looks to me like what is being reported as zip code median prices is actually the median price of detached sfh sales that are included in the CS index. The graphic at the link depicting percent increases notes that “Percentage represents increase in price index based on repeat sales of the same properties.” This is the methodolgy for the CS index, which Fiserv calculates for Standard & Poor’s.
The problem I see with this median reporting, aside from serious mix issues, is that the data set must be very small. Here are the 4Q2010 & 4Q2000 sales totals from the mls with % change for the 10 zips listed:
zip/2010/2000/%change
60640 11 17 -35%
60625 25 44 -43%
60618 58 70 -17%
60612 10 6 67%
60608 16 18 -11%
60660 6 9 -33%
60622 25 25 0%
60610 6 6 0%
60515 46 71 -35%
60647 36 49 -27%
The stated median price for 60625 in 4Q2010 is $548,000. However, the 25 mls sales have a median of $322,000. Obviously, Fiserv didn’t include many of those sales in the index. It sure seems to indicate that the CS index is weighted to the high $ end of 60625 sales. The median data presented is based on a very small data set as well as a questionable mix.
I don’t believe median comparisons over time for areas with changing housing stock are useful, but since I have them here they are for the zips listed:
zip/4Q2010/4Q2000/%change
60640 $585,000 $302,500 93%
60625 $322,000 $248,750 29%
60618 $329,500 $277,500 19%
60612 $192,500 $153,000 26%
60608 $157,500 $103,500 52%
60660 $450,500 $340,000 33%
60622 $504,500 $449,900 12%
60610 $2,897,500 $1,475,000 96%
60515 $309,250 $209,000 48%
60647 $428,950 $184,000 133%
“there are no industries in “North Barrington” and those soulless places. like I said, they all vary, but at the end of the day none of them have infrastructure like Chicago”
First time I ever heard of Barrington was after watching the movie Class, Skips house, seemed pretty nice to me.
Just need to get out before traffic, play some golf, tennis court in the yard… Some people like that compromise.
Both good.
ot question: Is there anywhere to find what particular condos are rented for in a particular building (say 900 or 910 n lsd) without mls access?
“This may come as a surprise, but the most burb-hating in my life comes from kids who grew up in the suburbs and who now live in the City”
Havin more fun, more concentrated, tryin to be a teeny bit different. I’ll bet at least 70% find their way back to an ever so slightly different burb. Especially the ones that can move upscale a burb or 2.
One other thing to consider about these areas being lauded for their 32-39% “median” increases: the consumer price index for 12/00-12/10 rose 26%.
I can’t speak to teh burbs but as far as the city, to paraphrase [i don’t comment often], follow the L tracks. People want short/easy commutes.
As far as HDs theory on people moving when their kids hit the 6th grade (which I don’t necessarily agree with) wouldn’t it make sense for people with toddlers/babies on the way to buy said houses? People are still having kids at the same rate, right?
-i don’t comment often
“If by some unlikely chance the economy grows 8% per year from now til 2015, then I’d follow these rules—1) follow the L tracks, 2) Chicagoans would rather be a minority in an ethnic European/ Hispanic neighborhood than an African-American one. …so that leads to Pilsen and the Northwest Side.”
I wouldn’t have posted at all except to defend my suburb. The attacks became pretty strong when I corrected some misinformed people. I’m sorry you felt the need to join in.
All the wonderful diversity you get in Chicago is over-rated in my opinion. I can have dinner and a show or visit the museums pretty easily any time I want to with a short trip the city. With housing as expensive as it is there, I have to wonder how many families are able to take advantage of all the culture? Most kids here in the suburbs spend their free time on organized activities to give them an advantage on college admissions and scholarships. I guess you think its better for city kids who are, I assume, allowed to “go loco” during high school and get it out of their systems before college?
I wouldn’t have posted here at all if somebody wasn’t posting misinformation about the suburbs, but now I see even some of those I had respect for choose to throw a few stones. Nice.
My favorite is when suburbanites claim that they’re “20 minutes” from any destination you name. The Loop? 20 minutes. O’Hare? 20 minutes. Indiana Dunes? 20 minutes. Great America? 20 minutes. I had to drive to friggin’ Lemont last weekend and it took forever, with NO traffic. Those places are painfully spread out. You just drive and drive and drive. Sitting on a train every day doesn’t sound any more enticing to me, personally. I’ll take my 15-minute bike commute any day.
“I guess you think its better for city kids who are, I assume, allowed to “go loco” during high school and get it out of their systems before college?”
Yes, my child is starting early, in middle school.
Crappy data set but looks like being West of Western ain’t so bad afterall 😉
Oh G.. straighten up those columns or you’re fired! I mean thanks for the info.
“the target in uptown is nice. but the drive west from LSD to get there is sketchtown central.”
CH, I took that drive last weekend with my boyfriend (the Wolfman) and his parents! We turned off LSD onto Wilson. Wolfman’s dad commented that there’s lots of parking on Wilson and that he should park there when he goes to the lake. Then we stopped at the light on Sheridan. There was a man sitting on the street outside Mickey D’s, twitching. He was a white gentleman. Bald on top. Long hair underneath.
Wolfman’s mom looked over at him. Wolfman was like “don’t worry, he’s just chillin'” I was like “Chillin’? He’s got a beggin’ cup.” Mom said “I dunno…it does have a lid and a straw…” Wolfman kept staring at the man. The man got more and more agitated until he snarled, jumped up and ran towards the car. Right then the light turned green so we floored it to Target.
Wolfman said it was kind of like staring at a Rottweiler.
I don’t think Wolfman’s dad will be parking around there after all.
But that to me is the worst part of Uptown. Target could not have opened in a better area. Things will improve.
“Is there anywhere to find what particular condos are rented for in a particular building (say 900 or 910 n lsd) without mls access?”
MLS doesn’t cover every rental. Just ask if you want them, CH.
“know why someone would use Wilson to get from LSD to that Target–did not compute.”
first time there, it’s (or was) called wilson yard i think…figured take wilson.
entrance to parking is right between wilson and montrose. if I’d come from the north wilson might have made the most sense. though I dont do a good job keeping the sequence/details straight between buena and bryn mawr- it’s all a blur
Hope you have a shower available at your destination today. “Any day” is quite a stretch in Chicago.
“I’ll take my 15-minute bike commute any day.”
G, I’m interested if it shows any 3bedrooms or more rented in either address. In 910 these are mostly –19 or –20 tier. in 900 there may be a few randoms that qualify. thanks
“Hope you have a shower available at your destination today. “Any day” is quite a stretch in Chicago.”
Nope, I never shower. I like being kind of grungy.
“now I see even some of those I had respect for choose to throw a few stones. Nice.”
At least two of us (admittedly, not necessarily one’s you respect), didn’t have anything to say until you posted this:
“All I hear is bitter jealousy from those stuck in Chicago.”
Which looked an awful lot like a stone. And that’s ignoring your “you must be stuck” dig, as that was pretty clearly directed at one person, but was clearly a stone.
“Most kids here in the suburbs spend their free time on organized activities to give them an advantage on college admissions and scholarships.”
Unless there has been a radical shift in the past couple of decades, I can assure you that suburban kids spend a great deal of their time getting wasted, getting into fights, and getting naked. Suburban homes are dens of teenage iniquity, and suburban roads are loaded with intoxicated drivers at night, many of whom are kids.
Way to go Michelle! Not the hottest thing I ever heard a chick say, but, good for you. I still don’t feel comfortable ridin here so I’m jealous.
“first time there, it’s (or was) called wilson yard i think…figured take wilson.
entrance to parking is right between wilson and montrose. if I’d come from the north wilson might have made the most sense. though I dont do a good job keeping the sequence/details straight between buena and bryn mawr- it’s all a blur”
Fair enough. And it makes sense. I’m just on Montrose more often, in no small part because of the folks (derelict and not) who will wander into the middle of the street on Wilson. I get enough of that whenever I cross Wabash in the Loop, and on N. Mich, I don’t need the further aggravation.
anonny.. sounds exactly like what I remember.
“But that to me is the worst part of Uptown.”
If you mean wilson/sheridan, you’re close enough. It’s a bit worse around Leland.
G – does 60660 also cover the 60626 section of Rogers Park?
60626 is the Sherdian Road/lakefront area of RP which is why I’m asking.
great story milkster. that was homedelete at MCD’s, his studio is across the street.
“that was homedelete at MCD’s, his studio is across the street.”
The description sounds a bit more like G, who I gather has been subletting HD’s storage closet while he gets back on his feet.
To each his own, some people may not like a lot of different thinking, art, or philosophical looks at “life”–(And it’s not for everyone)– But anyone who thinks Chicago’s cultural scene begins at the Muesum Campus and Ends at the Chicago Theater is just way off base and really can’t have the difference explained to them–And again that is fine. MHO–Suburban kids are either terribly bored or terribly sheltered in general as a result you either get pointless debauchary(yes there can be menaingful debauchary) or tomorrows Chad and Trixie who will grow up to hate their jobs and move to Lakeview in a late attempt to rebel–but end up never leaving their big ten bar and end up just as pointless as the 16 year old kids the “other” Parents won’t let come over.
“All the wonderful diversity you get in Chicago is over-rated in my opinion”
Juliana,
very true as in naperville you probably have more diversity than Lincoln Park and Lakeview put together.
I have always been the first to laugh when a person defending city living quotes diversity when they live in Gold Coast or LP.
now if me or skeptic quote diversity its a bit more “real” in our hoods than a bucktown guy doing the same. it only earns up a few more notches on our street cred card anyway 🙂
Now Naperville as nice as it is, is a harsh existence. i know it has everything one family could need but its just soulless and vannila/khaki.
you dont GO to naperville you END up there.
we looked at a few houses in different areas there just to see our options. and i lived in naperville for 3 months before i couldnt take it.
the people, route 59, the blandness, the oversized homes, the people, its just all blah. its not bad its just blah. i wouldnt mind rasing a family there if i HAD to but for the life of me couldnt soberly choose to do so.
A couple of days later I walked from Rogers Park to the same Target, but down Broadway instead and it was a completely different feeling. I’m with Russ. Edgewater, Andersonville and Lakewood-Balmoral are the most underrated neighborhoods in the city. I love it around there. I can’t believe it’s not more expensive.
“the people, route 59, the blandness, the oversized homes, the people, its just all blah. its not bad its just blah. i wouldnt mind rasing a family there if i HAD to but for the life of me couldnt soberly choose to do so.”
You’ve joked about moving to Des Moines. Have you ever spent 3 months in Iowa? It’s about the same, but *none* of them commute 5 days a week into Chicago.
Route 59? That’s nothing, that’s like Touhy Ave West of Western.
I was just on 59 on Monday. Check out route 47 or what is it 130 – the road that leads to Yorkville. corn fields, feed stores, mcmansions, and half complete subdivisions for miles west of Oswego!
“get pointless debauchary(yes there can be menaingful debauchary)”
Is the difference determined by whether or not you are participating?
47 goes north to huntley and algonquin too – now that’s OUT THERE.
“Way to go Michelle! Not the hottest thing I ever heard a chick say, but, good for you. I still don’t feel comfortable ridin here so I’m jealous.”
Ha, maybe I should clarify that I shower daily, sometimes more than once depending on need, but never when I arrive at work in the morning after commuting on my five-speed, fat-tire bike. How is the urban bike scene in Rio? Isn’t closing off the streets for bike festivals on weekends a big South American thing?
CH, here’s everything in the mls since 1/1/07:
910 #1620 3/2 1,436sf asked $3,300 rented 4/26/2011 for $2,900
910 #1919 3/2 1,436sf asked $3,300 rented 6/7/2010 for $3,150
900 #603 3/2.1 2,900sf asked $4,400 rented 11/20/2009 $4,000
910 #2519 3/2 1,436sf asked $3,300 rented 12/1/2008 for $3,300
Anonemoose, those are per zip code so no 60626 included.
Agreed. To me it was a sacrifice made when I had kids. Corporate types who like to golf and moms who like to get involved with the schools seem very happy here. Personally, the older I get the more space I like between me and my neighbors. I suppose after a certain age that starts to reverse.
Being car dependent is true, but a 7-11 is within a half mile and two strip malls with Jewel & Dominicks are within a mile from my house if you really want to walk. Whole Foods, Target, Trader Joes, and just about any other retail establishment you can think of are within three, so its not like you are driving miles and miles and if you combine your trips and stay home a lot you are not burning a lot of gas.
“you dont GO to naperville you END up there.”
Its hard to escape pointless existence in this country. All I feel I can do is try to make connections that last and provide a comfortable base for my children to come back to when they need to. I see more extended families living together in the future as the independence everybody craved looks to be overrated.
“tomorrows Chad and Trixie who will grow up to hate their jobs and move to Lakeview in a late attempt to rebel–but end up never leaving their big ten bar and end up just as pointless as the 16 year old kids the “other” Parents won’t let come over.”
thank you G.
At least Jason didn’t call your suburb the Coke Zero of Chicagoland. The mother of all stone throws.
Fair enough, but “Its hard to escape pointless existence in this country.” You live in Naperville and think 7-11 and Target are all you need within a 5 mile radius. It’s not hard–it just happens to be hard where you live.
Still pissed about that? Defend Oak Park baby! 🙂 “people love them their burbs”
Oak Park is 100 times better than Naperville Chris. But I feel both think they have expierenced Chicago by going to the AI and they drive away thinking: “well not much too that–who wants to buy street wise anyway–this magazine is depressing”
streetwise is a lot better now than it was when it started.
“Still pissed about that? Defend Oak Park baby!”
Haha…no worries. Still amazed at how that comment totally derailed that thread.
“As a six year resident of Uptown moving in a month, I am surprised that people are so optimistic about Uptown.”
oprf, where are you moving?
How is the urban bike scene in Rio?
Like everything else, getting much better, but up until 2-3 years ago people here didn’t stop at red lights so I’m not comfortable yet. Not much respect for bikers.
As for closing off the beach, they do that on Sundays. Seems like a dangerously distracting ride to me. You would have to send me out wrapped in pillows, I’d ride into so many things. I do drive out to the country every week and go on this one beautiful toll road where it seems all the serious riders ride every weekend. I think that’s where I’ll start up again real soon, just was way too busy last year.
The irony is that the particular location in Oak Park where I currently live seems more urban in many ways than where I was living in Logan Square for the past 5 years. I was reminded of that as I heard “Ding, dong, door is closing” while showering with the window open this morning.
I see people putting out misinformation about the suburbs, and I correct it. Then I get this, saying I have no right to comment on Chicago.
“I swear, only suburbanites have the audacity to think their opinion about Chicago should count while also thinking the opposite doesn’t hold true…”
So I give him a little of that opposite he speaks of. He can correct any misinformation I put out, same as I do. It wasn’t like I was attacking your wishful thinking on the CPS situation, but you had to put in your .02. Geez.
“Which looked an awful lot like a stone. And that’s ignoring your “you must be stuck” dig, as that was pretty clearly directed at one person, but was clearly a stone.”
“but a 7-11 is within a half mile and two strip malls with Jewel & Dominicks are within a mile from my house if you really want to walk. Whole Foods, Target, Trader Joes, and just about any other retail establishment you can think of are within three”
Wow views on life are differnt in the “ville” arent they. but wait thats how LP tools view their walkability too. so Naperville and Lincoln Park people are really one and the same 🙂
i would say atibutes for city livin would be 5 minutes to any ethnic type grocery store you can ever want!!!
the groove family doesnt plan to GO to target we just END up there at times.
The point is it would be easier for LP to find something if they ever thought of searching for it. Some get lucky and just stumble across it. The view in the Ville though is there is nothing else but the ville and the poverty of chicago. They can’t even conceptualize an alternative.
“i would say atibutes for city livin would be 5 minutes to any ethnic type grocery store you can ever want!!!”
Groovy, I prefer cooking over eating out 9 times out of 10 which is another reason why I wanted an in-town in Chicago.
I like Uptown, Edgewater and Albany Park for ethnic grocery stores.
“It wasn’t like I was attacking your wishful thinking on the CPS situation, but you had to put in your .02. Geez.”
Yeah, no stone throwing there either. Fine. *Selectively* deaf. Better?
I spent 15 years living all over the North side, and owned a 3-flat in Wrigleyville. We just made the decision that the burbs were a better place to raise a family, and moved in the early 90s, after many years of living in the city. I don’t feel I left my soul behind at all. You are very judgmental and like to think you know all there is to know about everybody. You don’t.
“Oak Park is 100 times better than Naperville Chris. But I feel both think they have expierenced Chicago by going to the AI and they drive away thinking: “well not much too that–who wants to buy street wise anyway–this magazine is depressing”’
Thanks G. When I didn’t see the zip, it made me wonder if the info was compressed.
“well not much too that–who wants to buy street wise anyway–this magazine is depressing”
how many here have actually read a streetwise? i can sadly say i have bought many of them but never really read them.
Yeah. Get a stone thrown my way, I throw one back. No prob.
“Yeah, no stone throwing there either. Fine. *Selectively* deaf. Better?”
Since when is stone throwing a problem here? Rubber bands with paper clips, thumb tacks….
“I spent 15 years living all over the North side, and owned a 3-flat in Wrigleyville. We just made the decision that the burbs were a better place to raise a family, and moved in the early 90s, after many years of living in the city. I don’t feel I left my soul behind at all. You are very judgmental and like to think you know all there is to know about everybody. You don’t.”
I don’t think anyone would fault you for making the choices you feel were right for your family, but perhaps you’re painting a broad stroke as well by characterizing the city according to what you knew in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s, which were arguably a low-point in chicago. Chicago today is vastly more livable than it was then.
Looks like Theaster Gates is betting on Grand Crossing:
http://www.chicagoreader.com/gyrobase/theaster-gates-grand-crossing-dorchester-projects/Content?oid=3965188&mode=print
I have two places that I think should be more livable Garfield park and Humboldt Park. Both truly gems of a park. I think Garfield park has a better chance–the buildings are nice and the population more transient.
Does Avondale boundary go all the way to the river? Walking North and West Logan Square seemed like nice blocks and housing.
Groove, my fellow gleaming the cube man, I think you should see a therapist for that LP obsession.
“I don’t think anyone would fault you for making the choices you feel were right for your family, but perhaps you’re painting a broad stroke as well by characterizing the city according to what you knew in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s, which were arguably a low-point in chicago. Chicago today is vastly more livable than it was then.”
How dare you pretend to know everything Red. You’re risking your children’s future by sending them to CPS!
“Since when is stone throwing a problem here?”
It’s like skeptic said–to be expected.
“Since when is stone throwing a problem here?”–It is not Hoods get ripped on all the time here, but no one really cares because if they live there they know better. Insult a burb though, and people really over compensate.
“I think you should see a therapist for that LP obsession.”
He’s not talking about *real* Lincoln Park, anonny, just the poseurs living anywhere west of your building.
“i would say atibutes for city livin would be 5 minutes to any ethnic type grocery store you can ever want!!!”
Oh sure, I’m 5 minutes walking from all of them in LP. Chinese? 5 minutes. Mexican? 5 minutes. Lebanese? 5 minutes. Ethiopian? Our block has two of ’em. Let’s just admit that we’re all delusional in our own way, shall we? Happy Friday!
“Let’s just admit that we’re all delusional in our own way, shall we?”
Not *all* of us; I’m the sane one.
“Happy Friday!”
Every board/comment thread I’ve ever regularly read gets extra snippy on Friday. Bob is the only general exception here.
“i would say atibutes for city livin would be 5 minutes to any ethnic type grocery store you can ever want!!!”
“Oh sure, I’m 5 minutes walking from all of them in LP. Chinese? 5 minutes. Mexican? 5 minutes. Lebanese? 5 minutes. Ethiopian? Our block has two of ‘em. Let’s just admit that we’re all delusional in our own way, shall we? Happy Friday!”
First, this has to be driving, right? I can’t really think of anywhere this can be true walking even without hobbit handicap (maybe somewhere around Kedzie/Lawrence you could find a fair mix). Also, grocery stores, not restos, and even for restos I’m doubtful there are *good* versions of all of those in LP.
I would imagine the 32% increase in 60647 is more attributable to Logan Square’s recent gentrification than to Bucktown. Bucktown was already pretty established by 2000, wasn’t it?
“Groove, my fellow gleaming the cube man, I think you should see a therapist for that LP obsession.”
it used to be a bucktown obsseseion back when Cribchatter got a bit focused on it. but since it seems CC has gone the way of the the LP this past year and a half i direct my OCD on ELP.
and by the way gleaming the cube was the wackest movie ever!!! at least Police Academey 4 or 5 had the original bones brigade doing the stunts for “joe dirt”.
and thrasher was another beat street style classic 🙂
Meant to say if it’s grocery stores as stated, then it has to be driving (which would put places close to kennedy as a good bet).
“Meant to say if it’s grocery stores as stated, then it has to be driving (which would put places close to kennedy as a good bet).”
Read right past the “delusional” sentence, didn’t you?
“I would imagine the 32% increase in 60647 is more attributable to Logan Square’s recent gentrification than to Bucktown. Bucktown was already pretty established by 2000, wasn’t it?”
Doesn’t control for mix and impact of new construction, right? Most of the newer construction SFH I see in Bucktown was built in 2000s (I know that’s almost tautological but you know what I mean, anything built after say 1990 or 1985). Often early 2000s, but still 2000s. Yes some in late 1990s, but still most I’d think in 2000s.
“You would have to send me out wrapped in pillows, I’d ride into so many things.”
LOL. Do they do the Naked Bike Ride there? You probably should stay away from that one. BTW, the NBR went by our house one year and we had a great time as a family sitting on the stoop, cheering everyone on. My daughter’s favorite was the two naked Smurfs. That was definitely one of those “I just love this city” moments for me.
“Read right past the “delusional” sentence, didn’t you?”
Fair enough. And I’m not Bob’d up yet.
“First, this has to be driving, right? I can’t really think of anywhere this can be true walking even without hobbit handicap”
i would say by me its a mix of walking, bike, and car all in 5 min from me i can bike in 5 minutes to a middle eastern muslim grocery, walk 5 minutes to a polish grocery, walk 5 minutes to a mexican grocery, bike 5 minutes to a Irish grocery, bike 5 minutes to a italian grocery, drive 5 min to Caputo’s which has many other ethnic foods, and drive 5 to a “World market” where you can get some crazy random imported stuff.
If I was in the same situation today, I would probably be making the same move. I feel the need to have a home big enough for extended family privacy and wouldn’t want to pay for private school on top of property taxes if things don’t improve enough.
“Chicago today is vastly more livable than it was then.”
“Read right past the “delusional” sentence, didn’t you?”
Phew, thank you. Only ethnic grocery in LP I can think of is Treasure Island, America’s “most European supermarket”.
Why can’t I concentrate on work!? Damn you all.
“bike 5 minutes to a Irish grocery”
That’s known as a “liquor store”, no?
I don’t think anyone truly understands what Rahm is going to do to make Chicago more livable and interesting. Uptown Music Venues, Cermack Arts District, Bloomington elevated trail From Humbodlt Park to the River along North Ave. I truly believe he is dedicated to these types of projects to quell the anger from all the budget issues.
And how will he be doing all these wonderful things GIVEN the budget issues?
“I don’t think anyone truly understands what Rahm is going to do to make Chicago more livable and interesting. Uptown Music Venues, Cermack Arts District, Bloomington elevated trail From Humbodlt Park to the River along North Ave. I truly believe he is dedicated to these types of projects to quell the anger from all the budget issues.”
“i would say by me its a mix of walking, bike, and car all in 5 min from me i can bike in 5 minutes to a middle eastern muslim grocery, walk 5 minutes to a polish grocery, walk 5 minutes to a mexican grocery, bike 5 minutes to a Irish grocery, bike 5 minutes to a italian grocery, drive 5 min to Caputo’s which has many other ethnic foods, and drive 5 to a “World market” where you can get some crazy random imported stuff.”
Asian?
“And how will he be doing all these wonderful things GIVEN the budget issues?”
By twinkling his toes, of course!
But you’re doing it again. You can’t have this both ways – you don’t get to defend “THE SUBURBS” as a whole and then selectively get to tout Naperville to make your point.
There’s no misinformation here, The suburbs ARE car-dependent, and only the dullest knife in the drawer would claim otherwise. Hell, that open space is what attracted people from day one. Suburb-style open space and urban density are essentially paradoxical, you can’t really have them both in the big picture.
And you do understand that the suburbs grew out of the highway system (and the oil-depletion allowance/tax-break which subsidzied cheap gas), right?
You have every right to comment on Chicago, and I have every right to the same on the burbs.
Also – I speak because I know. My wife is from Downers Grove, I’ve been familiar with the must-drive cul-de-sac’d culture in the western burbs for the almost 20 years we’ve been together. I can say lots of great things about various suburbs and about various people, etc.
But you can’t get around the fact they are urban sprawl.
Different strokes for different folks, but the ACTUAL people I speak to in the burbs seem to be increasingly annoyed by the lack of farsighted urban planning.
Driving everywhere was bad enough when it was just a case of time (my neighborhood’s walkability index is astounding), but now that gas is over $4 a gallon again, different story.
I can only speak from my experience, and that is loads of people moving into neighborhoods I grew up in. What is often lacking is any appreciation for the culture that attracted them in the first place. And if you say “it’s not the culture, it’s the infrastructure” you’re going to have to explain to me why all the South Side neighborhoods with equal infrastructure aren’t appealing.
now, my opinion is that if you are surrounded by cornfields you’re just a rural town. A Metra connection to Chicago may make you a sort of “commuter suburb,” but you don’t really share any infrastructure or culture like the Evanstons, Oak Parks, etc.
Speaking of, how is Naperville’s diversity? I have a friend from childhood there who has a black wife & kids, and he loves it, so I’m assuming maybe it’s ok.
I want to emphasize I don’t really have anything bad to say about Naperville specifically, but it literally doesn’t even cross my mind (or any conversations I have with other local yokels) when we talk about the suburbs from a Chicagoan perspective. You guys might as well be in Iowa or NW Indiana.
“I see people putting out misinformation about the suburbs, and I correct it….
So I give him a little of that opposite he speaks of. He can correct any misinformation I put out, same as I do. It wasn’t like I was attacking your wishful thinking on the CPS situation, but you had to put in your .02. Geez.”
I believe Slim Jims are often in abundance to boot.
““bike 5 minutes to a Irish grocery”
That’s known as a “liquor store”, no?”
““bike 5 minutes to a Irish grocery”
That’s known as a “liquor store”, no?”
budumdum [rim shot]
all we need with that one is a Ed McMahon/Johnny ayeoooooooo sound effect to go with that
“Asian?”
If Filipino is satisfactory, they yeah, he’s got that, too.
I think it’s the river to the railroad tracks west of Pulaski, Diversey to Addison. I’m at Belmont & Kimball, and you would have to pay me to move back to Lake View, just due to the fact that on a Saturday it takes 20 minutes just to get to the Kennedy. I have a need for speed when it comes to getting around town.
“Does Avondale boundary go all the way to the river? Walking North and West Logan Square seemed like nice blocks and housing.”
juliana – I’d agree with Red G. If I had lived in Wrigleyville for 15 years while owning a three flat and then had a kid in ’90-’94 I’d have immediately become part of the flock to the burbs crowd, and Naperville is/was tops on the burb to flock to. I currently have both family & friends living in that suburb, as well as many others.
Now I am faced with the same choice as well as others in my cohort, if you will, and it is not nearly as obvious of a choice as it was when you made it. A city vs. suburb childhood is different, in a gelato v. ice cream sort of way. No judgements on your choice, but there are negatives in it mainly by way of blandness and transit times as described by others. The negatives of the city are also debated here often: cost of living, schooling, crime.
I will say this for my circle of friends – both city & burb folks make a good effort to keep in touch with each other.
Juliana, I understand the desire to defend Naperville and completely get that life is a series of compromises. You aren’t going to get traction defending a place where 7-11, target, Dominicks and other big box retailers are all you have to chose from. I worked in Naperville for a while after college and many people were lauding the fact that it is its on mini-city, with a Catch 35! and a Riva! and a Hugo’s etc. I wish I had recorded the number of times people tacked on the telling “JUST LIKE CHICAGO” qualifier. The feel of the downtown I just cant shake, there is some authenticity there that has been washed over and instead of it being a defined palce of its own there is a concerted effort to duplicate Chicago names and make the trasnition easier for the Lincoln Parkers who can’t fit crib number 2 in their place.
I’ll take the ethnic grocers and the non-chain restaurants and the walkability of other places (Not just the city, apparently) any day.
“And how will he be doing all these wonderful things GIVEN the budget issues?”
These things are more of private/public partnerships opportunities..TIF stuff(I know I know) But I think Rahm has a way of getting things done and a wealth of connections with people willing to take a look at different opportunities..His brother IS ARI GOLD for crying out loud. LOL. Seriously though I think he is committed to doing smaller things all across the city as Chicago moves beyond the Millenium Park Centeralized strategy.
“I don’t think anyone truly understands what Rahm is going to do to make Chicago more livable and interesting. Uptown Music Venues, Cermack Arts District, Bloomington elevated trail From Humbodlt Park to the River along North Ave. I truly believe he is dedicated to these types of projects to quell the anger from all the budget issues.”
as two great men once i think said “here me now, and believe me later” (and probably followed with “pump you up”)
he is and will be a budget man, and a man who plan ahead and will know what to cut and what to “show” that will appease the masses for next run.
what makes chicago great are our free festivals and stuff, he already cut our fireworks (yes i know groove/record/broken) the rest of the smaller free fest are combined and look who are new cultural director is, hmmmm
““Asian?”
If Filipino is satisfactory, they yeah, he’s got that, too.”
yep its called oscars on belmont and my good friends parents own it!
if your going to BBQ a whole pig there is no other place to go!
BTW – anon (tfo)’s been on fire today on this thread. Golf clap.
“look who are new cultural director is”
Michelle Boone? What’s the issue?
Daley daughter is the advisory committee chair, which isn’t the same thing.
He is normally a few strokes under. He has had some good ones. like the “west of your building” line–that was good.
few things
1) off topic – anyone sad that The Chicago Code got cancelled? it was just starting to get good 🙁
2) For what i’d like Rahm to do… help fight all the trash in the tourista district or the trash left behind by the stupid clubbers by installing more trash cans on the streets. no reason there shouldn’t be one (if not 2-3) at each intersection in my hood, you can barely find one every 2-3 blocks right now…
3) the Hugo’s in Naperville SUCKS HARD… so dissapointing
4) happy friday!
Enjoy your walk. A gallon of gas, even at $5, will get me to plenty of non-chain groceries in Naperville. We have a Caputos, Indian and Chinese groceries, meat and seafood markets, and MANY other choices. People in Naperville are not deprived of the ingredients for fine dining. The stores tend to be clustered together in strip malls, so, like I said, if you combine trips its not that expensive or time consuming.
“I’ll take the ethnic grocers and the non-chain restaurants and the walkability of other places (Not just the city, apparently) any day.”
“Michelle Boone? What’s the issue?
Daley daughter is the advisory committee chair, which isn’t the same thing.”
i though whats her face was forced to retired when they combined the department and then boone was replaced by daley’s daughter?
“1) off topic – anyone sad that The Chicago Code got cancelled? it was just starting to get good ”
wife and i were very PO’d as its the ONLY show we watched.
“no reason there shouldn’t be one (if not 2-3) at each intersection in my hood, you can barely find one every 2-3 blocks right now…”
Think the big bellies are rolling out.
The reason not to have more of them is the cost of collecting the garbage (at 3x union wage + diesel for every truck), not the cost of the receptacles themselves.
“The stores tend to be clustered together in strip malls, so, like I said, if you combine trips its not that expensive or time consuming.”
you have to plan your shopping, sorry. as for us if we run out i just go be back in 30. which really would only be 10 but i am a chatty folk so it can turn to 45 at times just taking out the garbage 🙂
“wife and i were very PO’d as its the ONLY show we watched.”
i only got PO’d when I heard about what they were going to air instead…
makes me lose faith in humanity, thats for sure
“i though whats her face was forced to retired when they combined the department and then boone was replaced by daley’s daughter?”
Maybe. Lois was forced out, the departments combined, but Rahm hired Boone and also Daley’s daughter as advisory committee chair, so that would be fast work.
I would guess that Naperville is probably more diverse than the average green zone neighborhood. My kids had friends of all ethnicities. My daughter was in a high school dance group that had black and Indian kids teaching African and Indian dance, along with the usual hip-hop and jazz. I can honestly say my kids are not prejudiced, and are more progressive than I was growing up in an integrated high school. Interracial dating is something they readily accept, although I’m not sure all their parents are there yet. Political correctness can still have a touch of hypocrisy.
“Speaking of, how is Naperville’s diversity? I have a friend from childhood there who has a black wife & kids, and he loves it, so I’m assuming maybe it’s ok.”
“Maybe. Lois was forced out, the departments combined, but Rahm hired Boone and also Daley’s daughter as advisory committee chair, so that would be fast work.”
your take sounds more plausible, as grooves brain mixes up things at times and grooves “just type/talk dont think” way of doing things has me never fact checking or doing a simple google search.
Enthnicity does not equal Diversity. Congratulations though for being proud of casting your judgements on such topics in a positive light. “People in Naperville are not deprived of the ingredients for fine dining.”–It’s not a class thing plenty of rich people in Chicago. BTW I know many people who are underwater in their townhomes in Naperville. Naperville does have plenty of nice restrurants–that’s not the point.
hey its friday and i am gone in like 20,
so lets put this to rest, if you HAD to live in naperville it wouldnt be the worse thing to happen. but all of us would Choose to live in the city.
ps and really its only ONE person defending the “Ville” not like when Oak park is defended by many 🙂
good day all,may the schwartz be with you!
I would guess that Naperville is probably more diverse than the average green zone neighborhood.
Crude measure, but:
Naperville SD demo:
W B H A
72.8 4.8 5.2 15.1
LPHS:
31.0 31.5 25.2 12.0
Lincoln Elem:
63.5 15.7 8.2 11.6
Blaine:
50.5 5.4 33.8 8.3
So, not as white as (seems to be) perceived here, but whiter than “GZ”.
“The stores tend to be clustered together in strip malls, so, like I said, if you combine trips its not that expensive or time consuming.”
Oooh. Strip malls. Those are exciting.
“I wouldn’t write Uptown off. They might just be able to clean up the couple troublesome areas now that they have a new alderman…”
So long as they have methadone clinics, halfway houses and release people from the sanitarium right in Uptown (still in sanitarium clothing too) I don’t see Uptown keeping it’s premium. It was driven by smoke and mirrors like the most of the rest of these areas.
Oh, I thought it was implied that Jewel & Dominicks are the only food choices and I just pointed out that authentic ethnic ingredients are available for those that desire them. Its not all bland white bread. Personally, I am not enough of a gourmet to make use of them except on a limited basis, but Naperville has an ethnically diverse enough population that the ethnic groceries are popular.
I’m sure there are people that are underwater on their homes in Naperville. But prices on homes didn’t bubble up to absurdity like some areas of Chicago, so I would guess the landing won’t be as hard.
“It’s not a class thing plenty of rich people in Chicago. BTW I know many people who are underwater in their townhomes in Naperville. Naperville does have plenty of nice restrurants–that’s not the point.”
“You are very judgmental and like to think you know all there is to know about everybody. You don’t.”
Juliana what you’ll find is some of the biggest urban snobs are transplants from other areas like Oh-hi-ohhh. They likely left because they love the urban environment and couldn’t see themselves living a similar suburban existence they knew before Chicago. They also feel like they have some superiority complex (urban snob transplant syndrome) as many of their peer group back home indeed are yokels and they extrapolate this to native Illinoisans.
I don’t hate on Chicago burbs only the housing valuations and transportation options. In other midwest cities you can drive to work in far less traffic and often even drive home for lunch. Try doing that here.
Oh, I know, not as “exciting” as walking down your average green zone street, but you bring can those ingredients home to your cozy nest and make your own excitement. Put up a volleyball net in the back yard, put some cold beverages on ice, fire up the grill and throw a party. We hardly know what we are missing!
“Oooh. Strip malls. Those are exciting.”
From this thread I wonder: is it possible to express a preference, and defend it, without being considered a snob?
“From this thread I wonder: is it possible to express a preference, and defend it, without being considered a snob?”
Yes, you can express a preference and defend it and be considered a prole or a yokel or “midwestern”.
Consider James’ recent contributions regarding kitchen design and other things.
“From this thread I wonder: is it possible to express a preference, and defend it, without being considered a snob?”
With a moniker like Wicker you’re an urban snob straight out the gate.
“I would guess that Naperville is probably more diverse than the average green zone neighborhood. My kids had friends of all ethnicities.”
you would guess wrong
“My daughter was in a high school dance group that had black and Indian kids teaching African and Indian dance, along with the usual hip-hop and jazz.”
wow a DANCE group with minorities in it? color me shocked!
ring the diversity alarm when piano lessons, orchestra and hockey rinks start getting “diverse” and not full of tokens
“I can honestly say my kids are not prejudiced, and are more progressive than I was growing up in an integrated high school.”
I can honestly laugh at that comment.
“Interracial dating is something they readily accept, although I’m not sure all their parents are there yet. Political correctness can still have a touch of hypocrisy.”
I can guarantee the parents aren’t happy if their cheerleader daughter is banging the basketball captain, but hey its great that kids are becoming more tolerant even though parents likely aren’t, hence why they moved to Naperville in the first place.
Pretty sure those demographics are different at the GZ schools too. Not so in Naperville. I guess in that respect Naperville is certainly less diverse. I guess I would say Naperville is diverse enough to develop tolerance, but not enough to have to deal with the problems of poverty.
“Crude measure, but:”
Pretty sure the GZ schools are even more diverse than your statistics imply. Not so in Naperville, and in that respect Naperville is certainly less diverse. I guess I would say Naperville is diverse enough to develop tolerance, but not enough that we have to deal with the problems of poverty.
“Crude measure, but:”
Why do we keep talking about tolerance? Was Naperville recently 1960’s Alabama or something? The fact that you feel the need to taut tolerance shows how out whack your world view is. But this is not about race, so let’s forget that. I doubt the average Naperville parent has a vague cool about what diversity really means. I am sure they feel a pang of pity every time some one else’s bored kid picks up a skate board or dyes their hair. (and these are just cheap cliches but I know you can understand those). The point is when you live in Naperville you only see one kind of life style and everything else slowly fades away and the world is black and white. Sure one of your friends husbands MIGHT play guitar when he is done mowing the lawn, but odds are it just sits on the basement wall. So when some says when you move to the suburbs your soul dies–that’s not really the case it just atrophies because it is exposed to nothing else other than the local PTA chatter, the lawn care, and the pity for everyone else who might make some vague attempt to live outside the routine and the norms. But that’s life–I am not knocking it (or you) just knocking the denial of simple fact that yes there are “things you miss out on” when you live in a monoculture.
Dance was just one activity that allowed my kids to develop friendships outside their race. Almost all activities at their high school had minorities and the close friendships they developed with kids that came from different backgrounds has made them more tolerant. My daughter dated an Asian kid.
Piano lessons?!? And since most kids only play one sport per season, naturally they would gravitate to the one they excelled at. Why would somebody who was good at basketball choose to play hockey? And *piano lessons*? Are you serious? Black kids were in orchestra and band, but those were probably overrepresented by Asians. So what?
“wow a DANCE group with minorities in it? color me shocked!”
“So what?”
Sonies thinks he’s some kind of diversity officer. But honestly I find both sides of this conversation hilarious.
You who places some sort of positive value on diversity and Sonies whom your standards for it aren’t up to his caliber. LMFAO!
No one can explain to me why if one particular race has a per capita crime rate multiples over that of all others, why having token friends from that race should be viewed as a positive.
If they really want a crash course in African-American culture they should live in the south side for a year.
You are wrong. I would say most of the kids who like to play “street” come from broken or single parent homes, and there are some of those in Naperville. Their swagger wins them some respect. Then their are the gay kids who feel bold enough to come out in a big pond as long as there are a few others that will do it with them. The goth kids, the hipster kids, all kinds of styles show up at a big school. Maybe the parents are more generic, but the kids show their independence. Not as sheltered as you seem to think.
“The point is when you live in Naperville you only see one kind of life style and everything else slowly fades away and the world is black and white.”
wow, it really doesn’t take much or long for one of these posts to go waayyy offf topic. 😀
Diversity is not why I moved to Naperville, but I believe the diversity that exists here is a positive for kids. But I’m done defending Naperville, I’ve got a strip mall that is calling my name.
“You who places some sort of positive value on diversity and Sonies whom your standards for it aren’t up to his caliber. LMFAO!”
“Pretty sure the GZ schools are even more diverse than your statistics imply.”
Huh? You mean the other GZ elementary schools? Some are, some aren’t, but among those that are full of predominantly neighborhood kids (which is what? 20? maybe?), those two are fairly representative.
LPHS is the only attendance area GZ HS. Period. LVHS might be in ~5 years, but right now 80% of LVHS does not live w/in the (very large) attendance area.
Not sure that simply having kids who identify as whatever the subculture of choice is at the time can really be used as proof that a certain locale is “cultured” or “diverse.” I think that’s simply called “high school.”
“Not sure that simply having kids who identify as whatever the subculture of choice is at the time can really be used as proof that a certain locale is “cultured” or “diverse.””
Nor is the opposite true, of course.
“Diversity is not why I moved to Naperville, but I believe the diversity that exists here is a positive for kids”
I don’t see it as a strong positive or negative. A small positive perhaps, as our mainstream media’s portrayal of minorities (and even white people) tends to be a bit of a joke.
point taken, anon.
Groove:
Check this one out. Seriously, could be in your wheel house for a fixer upper based on your previous interest areas. 2002 price seems out of line, and I did not bother to look it up. Hubbard Woods area / SW Glencoe is a great family neighborhood.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Glencoe/506-Oakdale-Ave-60022/home/13788361
Juliana being from Naperville explains a lot.
Best thing to happen to that area was the new Chick-Fil-A. That’s about it.
The glecoe house for $395,500 is a $hithole at $282 psf. The 02 price was a trust deed and it’s a typo in Redfin. This is a one shower house, needs work, west of green bay road, for the ‘poor’ kids in Glencoe. 1,500 sq is only slightly larger than most 2 bedroom apartments in courtyard buildings. And the $8,000 a year taxes, while average for the area sucks too.
Is this more Groove’s speed?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Highland-Park/416-Ashland-Pl-60035/home/17615936
HP/Braeside
Little too close to the trains.
416 Ashland is a couple of blocks east of Metra (not a problem), but across the street from one of the Ravinia Park parking lots. Nice house that has been on the market for years. Check out Lake County taxes.
“Juliana being from Naperville explains a lot.”
Juliana- I LOVE Naperville. Great suburb to raise a family in.
The people on here mocking it were probably eating in the Rush Street Hugo’s Frog Bar or one of the many Rosebud’s or Francescas in downtown or on the North Side last night – which are the SAME restaurants in downtown Naperville.
Or- wait- maybe they were commenting on their laptop while they sat at the Starbucks or the Potbelly’s- of course- the SAME establishments that are in downtown Naperville.
Perhaps they were in the Barnes and Noble cafe in Lincoln Park- which is the SAME bookstore in downtown Naperville?
Maybe they had a pizza at Lou Malnati’s in River North last night- the SAME restaurant that you might have taken your family too last night- except in downtown Naperville- and had a pleasant dinner sitting on the outside patio?
And the 35 minute express train ride? Maybe the people mocking it were sitting on the Brown line which they got on at the Western stop in Lincoln Square (whoops- there’s a Potbellys there too! Who knew???) because it would take them at least 40 to 45 minutes to get to the loop. They had to have SOMETHING to do while sitting on the train all that time- so why not mock the horrible Naperville commute?
Yes- there are “soulless” parts of Naperville (Rt. 59 corridor comes to mind.) But the original core of Naperville (with the Naper Settlement) is a fantastic place to live with some of the best schools in the state. Not soulless at all.
For people looking for a single family home in good school district with plenty of things to do (restaurants/shops, the beach)- then they should look in Napeville.
“Best thing to happen to that area was the new Chick-Fil-A. That’s about it.”
Wrong!
No Chick-Fil-A in Naperville.
Sorry to disappoint you. But there is a Catch 35 (gosh- same as downtown Chicago). Heaven on Seven (wow- there’s one of those in River North too.) Five Guys and a Burger (aren’t they opening up one of those on Broadway in Lakeview any day now? Wow- Naperville got it BEFORE Lakeview? Go figure.)
And on and on and on.
Actually- out of ALL of the suburbs – Naperville probably has the best selection of restaurants. Although I do like some of the offerings in Highland Park/Highwood area. Downtown LaGrange has some really good original restaurants as well.
People looking for good schools and a quick commute with “soul” should look at downtown LaGrange. Trader Joes, movie theater, great restaurants, quick train ride from several stations. It’s a great Oak Park alternative- but slightly more expensive.
“So when some says when you move to the suburbs your soul dies–that’s not really the case it just atrophies because it is exposed to nothing else other than the local PTA chatter, the lawn care, and the pity for everyone else who might make some vague attempt to live outside the routine and the norms.”
What do you THINK it is in the city? Any different?
Um…no!
I was standing in line at the Borders bookstore a few months ago for an hour (when they were having the going out of business sale) and talked to two different sets of parents from Lincoln Park with tween and teenager children. What do you think we talked about?
The schools (if their kids would get into any of the magnet high schools). Their kids birthday parties. The upcoming planting season for their gardens. Things going on at the school. And I was included in these conversations even though I had no children at their schools!
These were men AND women in the conversation (not just all women.)
The conversations are the same wherever. If you think otherwise- you don’t have kids and don’t live in a neighborhood for 10 years where all your kids are interacting, going to school, on the same sports teams etc. There are NO other topics.
Well, there is one thing to be said about all those “same” restaurants in Chicago and Naperville (which I admit I have never been to): notice that ALL those places you listed ORIGINATED in Chicago, and are being copied in the burbs. The innovation, new ideas and concepts are germinating in a rich, stimulating environment such as the urban core of Chicago. Show me a similar list of restaurants or other business/cultural concepts that ORIGINATED in Naperville and have been imported to Chicago. The point is that to each his own, but the energy and stimulation are here in the city on a much grander scale. If that is something that matters to an individual, then there clearly is a difference in where to live. People in NYC and the West Coast say the same things about their locales, and think us Midwesterners just copy their ideas (and to some degree this is also true).
“The innovation, new ideas and concepts are germinating in a rich, stimulating environment such as the urban core of Chicago.”
Doczie, you simply postulate that those ideas weren’t originated by suburban residents who are simply exploiting Chicagos population density before returning home to the burbs.
I personally have never noticed my IQ drop when I pass a city or state line. Excluding self induced of course.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-03/paris-luxury-home-prices-increase-22-fastest-in-world-knight-frank-says.html
I have said it several times before about Paris.. seemingly as close to bulletproof as it gets.
“Doczie, you simply postulate that those ideas weren’t originated by suburban residents who are simply exploiting Chicagos population density before returning home to the burbs.
I personally have never noticed my IQ drop when I pass a city or state line. Excluding self induced of course.”
Gringo, You apparently did not actually read my post. No where in it do I say anyone is more intelligent in the city (“IQ drop”). Innovation and stimulating concepts do not necessarily require any sort of exceptional IQ. While it is possible that a suburbanite (or someone from Nome, Alaska) could have conceived ideas that are put into play in Chicago, it certainly seems less likely from simple logic. And finally, like I said, show my a list of restaurants, business ideas etc that opened and thrived in Naperville first, then were imported into the city-proper. My exact words were that those ideas are germinating (not necessarily originating) in the city. Read it again.
And yes, I am aware I have the word Originated in all caps twice, but I meant that those businesses were first built/started operations in the city, not necessarily the ideas behind how they came into being.
Lou Malnati’s original location is suburban (Lincolnwood), iirc
In any case, though I generally support Sabrina’s defense of suburbs, it is ludicrous to say the same sort of dining options exist there (or arts/cinema/theater). I mean, Francesca’s? Hugo Frogs? Give me a break…
There is at least one suburb that has a fine dining destination-worthy restaurant, and that is Western Springs — close to LaGrange, which as Sabrina notes, is very nice, and as she also notes, very expensive. Probably a couple others, though I cant think of much in Naperville. Much more common are good cheap Chinese, Mexican, Lebanese, etc spots — as the suburbs continue to become more cosmopolitan with increased immigration. Many central city neighborhoods, in contrast, are now virtually devoid of international influence.
Getting back to Andersonville, wasn’t someone here looking for a 2-flat to rehab (or convert) in the area?
How about:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1622-W-Bryn-Mawr-Ave-60660/home/13405777
doczie. I thought it was fair to Napervile vs. Chicago = suburbs vs Chicago, in general. I think by population alone I would lose the bet simply on ideas from Naperville vs those from Suburbs. So unless you count Wichita, Ypsilanti, Des Plaines, and Kalamazoo as major metro areas I think I might have just covered the originator and half of Americas (sadly) current eating options.
Personally this argument moves to personal preferences and is ridiculous. I like both. But you can do crazy shit having a house that you can not do unless you go $$$$ on a place in the city, and I mean $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
vs those from Suburbs.. meant city.
My original comment stated “to each his own.” Obviously (and thank goodness) the world is not a one-size-fits-all. I (and many others) prefer the acoutrements of a large urban center (and of course have to live with the yukky stuff too like crime, traffic, taxes etc). Others prefer more open spaces, presumably better schools, etc of the burbs. It’s not a competition. Just stating an observation. Andersonville (since this whole string is technically about 60640) is an intersting collage of numerous ethnic subgroups: Middle Eastern, Korean, Japanese, Hispanic/Latino, Mediterranean, Italian, Cajun, Swedish and others. And it is in walking distance to Argyle district (Vietnamese), Ethopian, French. And it is a very short drive to Devon Street (Indian). And of course there are a small number of chain stores like Starbux, Einsteins, Subway, Potbelly as well. It is easy to see why this neighborhood is thriving. It has rich diversity for a “gentrified” area, plus two small museums, a gym, walking distance to the beach, the El, several bus routes, and close proximity to Lake Shore Drive. There is a strong gay presence and a major summer street festival (Midsommerfest, which is next weekend if you wanna check it out). Plus it is attempting to be more ‘green’ with recyling bins ON the sidewalks and the business disctrict works actively with the independant shops to use CFBs and increase planting. The schools apparently suck ass, but not everyone who lives here has children (or wants them).
i dont know why everybody focuses on food. the big advantage of the city is attractive single people. try to go out 5 nights a week in naperville and take home somebody new and attractive. pretty much next to impossible unless you are fonzie. much easier in chicago.
in rio, that guy milkster saw at mcdonalds might pull it off.
sure, but the number of people going out 5 nights a week who are even remotely interested in the city-vs-suburbs debate is surely 0.
doczie.. so just enjoy it. It’s about what you like, and not anyones opinion of it that matters. No reason to go punch to punch with anyone over which is better.
Just say ‘I like it, it’s my preference’. Ends the argument.
I personally enjoy both, because as you very well stated both have limitations and benefits.
CH… sadly not, girls are 100 times more accessible in Chicago. Here – for the really good stuff in Ipanema/Leblon – proof of social class adequacy requires an introduction. Kinda like girls from the Upper East Side in NYC.
Of course I’ll write your mistake off as a frame of reference error since you probably spent most of your time here at HELP 😉 (fortunately gone- now being turned into a very contemporary Museum of Image and Sound).
http://www.architectmagazine.com/cultural-projects/museum-of-image-and-sound.aspx I like pic 1 and 3 of the slideshow.
Here’s a cool visual tool to see how long it takes to get somewhere via CTA. It’s fun to drag the pin around to different neighborhoods, and slide the time scale.
mapnificent.net
“Groove: Check this one out. Seriously, could be in your wheel house for a fixer upper based on your previous interest areas. 2002 price seems out of line, and I did not bother to look it up. Hubbard Woods area / SW Glencoe is a great family neighborhood.”
JMM,
Wifey slapped down the veto on Glencoe because grade school was separated into three schools and spread all across the town, she didnt mind if the schools were walking distance like Highland Park and River forest but in glencoe its not. Winnetka has that crow island campus with the three schools all close but the affordable parts of winnetka you would need to drive the squirt.
but good find!
“Is this more Groove’s speed?
HP/Braeside
Little too close to the trains.”
Nat sweet azz find and a good sized lot. I wonder if you get any train noise this far and would think the ravina traffic and ravinia would be more of a issue.
like i said if i worked out that way the groove would probably be in HP already 🙂
one major problem with naperville, and all the restaurants Bri Bri listed is that there are Napervillians there (and in the chicago restaurant too)
thanks for the memories ze. only one night at Help. I’d forgotten about leblon, we rented a place in “leblon flats”.
my data is from 99 – 00. but it is probably full of whoppers now that you mention it. in 99 friends came back and reported how much the girls loved americans and claimed most of them werent from help. in 00 I went down and observed most of the same guys pay for it over and over. yet still, the myth survived in my head. funny
One friend did meet a gorgeous girl who ended up moving to ny and living w him for a year. he married her but only so she could stay, she was way crazy.