Market Conditions: November Sales Jump 17.6% YOY But Was it Really “Hot”?
The Illinois Association of Realtors is out with the November sales data.
And despite a surge in the coronavirus throughout the state, sales were hot once again.
Or were they?
The city of Chicago saw year-over-year home sales increase 17.6 percent with 1,965 sales in November, compared to 1,671 a year ago. The median price of a home in the city of Chicago in November was $295,000, up 9.3 percent from November 2019.
Last year’s November sales actually saw a decline and were the lowest number of sales since 2015.
Year-over-year numbers weren’t going to be hard to beat.
Here is the November sales data for the last 14 years (thanks to G for some of the data):
- November 2007: 1859 sales and median price of $290,000
- November 2008: 1093 sales and median price of $222,500 (16% short/REO sales)
- November 2009: 1905 sales and median price of $215,000 (29% short/REO sales)
- November 2010: 1144 sales and median price of $182,500 (39% short/REO sales)
- November 2011: 1429 sales and median price of $157,000 (43% short/REO sales)
- November 2012: 1750 sales and median price of $180,000
- November 2013: 1844 sales and median price of $200,000
- November 2014: 1638 sales and median price of $230,000
- November 2015: 1661 sales and median price of $233,500
- November 2016: 1937 sales and median price of $260,000
- November 2017: 1959 sales and median price of $256,000
- November 2018: 1852 sales and median price of $261.745
- November 2019: 1671 sales and median price of $270,000
- November 2020: 1965 sales and median price of $295,000
“The November data is showing supply and demand at work in the city of Chicago,” said Nykea Pippion McGriff, president of the Chicago Association of REALTORS® and vice president of brokerage services of Coldwell Banker Realty.
“As each of our 77 neighborhoods is performing differently, low inventory across some neighborhoods is causing prices to rise and market time to decline; those shopping for a home right now are focused. The 17.6 percent increase in closed sales compared to last November demonstrates that the city remains desirable, and properties of all types are moving in the market.”
Low mortgage rates continued to stay low with a 30-year average fixed rate mortgage of 2.77% down from 2.83% in October.
It was also down from 3.7% in November 2019.
Chicago inventory rose 3.1% to 9,329 properties from 9,046 last year.
But statewide, it was a different story as inventory declined 36.8% to 34,486 from 54,604 properties.
Single family homes remain hotter than condos in the city. Single family home sales rose 26.1% to 933 properties while condo sales rose “just” 10.8% to 1,032.
“For the last five months trend, both Illinois and Chicago housing markets recorded positive year-over-year increases in both prices and sales,” said Geoffrey J.D. Hewings, emeritus director of the Regional Economics Applications Laboratory (REAL) at the University of Illinois. “The forecast for next year suggests a continuation of those trends, provided the distribution of vaccines presages a more robust and extensive recovery of the economy beyond the stock market.”
With mortgage rates still remaining near record lows, is the desire to buy a home going to remain strong into the start of 2021 or is the pandemic buying nearly over?
Strong homebuyer demand pushes home sales and prices to double-digit gains in November [Illinois Association of Realtors, Press Release, December 22, 2020]
Interesting. It looks like the Chicago metro area will end the year around 7.3% higher sales than last year, reversing a downward trend over the last 2 – 3 years. I’m basing that off of the rolling 12 month numbers through November.
Imminent property tax hikes, horrible public schools, rising crime rates. Yep totally makes sense.
“Interesting. It looks like the Chicago metro area will end the year around 7.3% higher sales than last year, reversing a downward trend over the last 2 – 3 years. I’m basing that off of the rolling 12 month numbers through November.”
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I wonder how much of that was an acceleration of the trend to flee the city for the suburbs, with the acceleration due to covid
“is the desire to buy a home going to remain strong into the start of 2021 or is the pandemic buying nearly over?”
Overall, the pandemic buying is nearly over since the vaccine is approved and will be readily available come summer/fall. The neighborhoods with SFH’s that have been hot due to pandemic buying have had low inventory, increasing prices, and continued increased assessments. Unless the FED goes negative price gains have offset lower interest rates by this point in this segment.
The Condo market will remain tough; maybe some spec investors look for deals but by and large the market the new couple that can only afford a Condo and not a SFH in the city are likely decimated from the pandemic and/or can get a better deal renting with 3, 4, 5 months free while taking inventory of their job prospects and finances. Also, will my millennial friends who maintained jobs be more interested in spending money traveling the globe or saving up a down payment after being cooped up for a year?
Additional headwinds come from lenders and how they tighten or maintain lending standards (they ain’t loosening). How much is currently in forbearance? Does this number continue to increase? How does this process play out in Washington with a new admin? How does eviction moratoriums play out at the State level? How many companies relocate or downsize city real-estate letting people WFH more often or permanently effectively allowing their workers a wider net to live?
I see a depressed housing market spreading from the Loop (2 years inventory already) to the north, west, and south of the city in 2021 (maybe longer). Oh yeah, how long does it take for building material prices to come back down? Lumber is still up 3x from April.
Maybe come 2022 we will have some clarity around these questions and the negative headwinds will start to abade with a re-set market.
@Gary – saw a comment from you about the Kaegi COVID-19 decreases on residential properties and how it won’t actually lead to a decrease in taxes paid since everyone is getting a pretty similar decrease.
I believe you missed a key piece and what I think is the actual motivation behind the move – commercial properties. They did not get any COVID adjustment. So, the move is an effort to shift some of the burden of property taxes from residential homeowners to large landlords/commercial properties. The (Kaegi) Assessor’s office has been trying to do that during their triannual reassessments by adjusting the cap rates used in the last go around and there was projected to be a huge shift EXCEPT the Board of Review undid the majority of it by significantly reducing commercial properties’ assessed value upon appeal. Like, ridiculously so. Some of the huge properties dropped 60% is assessed value after Board of Review appeal (admittedly, after Kaegi’s office gave a huge increase).
In any event, that’s my theory. It’s a cat and mouse game between the Assessor’s Office and Board of Review. So, if you’re in a location with a lot of commercial properties, it’s possible your tax burden as an individual homeowner might go down as they go up (unless somehow those properties get adjusted too.) If you’re in any area primarily composed of individual homeowners, then, yeah, I agree with you that the ~10% decrease in assessed values will do little to decrease the tax owed.
Fair point.
From what I hear on the ground (after countless conversations on this topic with realtors, buyers, appraisers, surveyors, attorneys, brokers, etc) is that the panic buying is mostly over but interest in moving is still high. Just today I was told that January, normally a slow month, is going to be a good month for everyone in the industry. The forthcoming vaccine seems to have little impact on buyers decision to set down roots in greener pastures. The primary issues driving people to buy and sell are lack of space, shutdowns, closed schools, taxes and to some extent, safety.
Underpinning the entire residential real estate industry in the Chicago area is that people are fleeing the mid and high rises of downtown, river north, the west loop, south loop, streeterville. It’s not longer safe and all the reasons to live there have been destroyed. For example, there was a gun battle in the streets with over 50 something shots fired this weekend.
Renters too have mostly left the tall buildings in the city center. I’ve heard anecdotal stories of mid-rise rentals being half empty, with the elevators booked all day every weekend for move-outs scheduled weeks and months in advance. One person told me their former mid-rise apartment building is probably half-empty, if not more. The landlord actually tried increase rent 20% this summer to make up for all the vacancies. Of course, they did not renew and they moved, like everyone else, and now own a 3 bedroom unit in a neighborhood.
The brave, and naive, city center condo buyers are all knife catchers who will lose a few fingers buying overpriced units in neighborhoods on generations long declines. Remember all the fools from 2008 and 2009 and 2010 who believed they were getting a deal? Some people never learn.
The anecdotal evidence is that those feeling city center are mostly moving to the various Chicago neighborhoods. The residents of Chicago neighborhoods are moving to the suburbs; and those leaving the suburbs are moving farther out into the suburbs, or just leaving the state entirely. we all have countless anecdotal and statistical evidence that backs up this new great migration out of downtown.
Unfortunately, evidence is clear that the cities with draconian shutdowns fared worse than those that stayed relative open. Shutdown cities and states have had more deaths and higher rates of coronavirus per capita than open cities and states. I said this would be so back in March and April and I was correct. And even worse, the shutdowns have been infinitely destructive to the culture and livability major cities. It’s not just people feeling, it’s corporations, and they’re fleeing to relatively free and open TX and FL. The stories coming out of NY, LA and SF of people fleeing is real, very very real.
Look for these trends to continue. People are now making major life decisions and this trend will continue for the rest of the decade. They’re not moving back. They’re never going to return to the shutdown major cities hoping that they’ll return to a pre-pandemic life. The downtown areas of major cities are unrecognizable and the vibrancy that took a generation to build was destroyed over night.
The lure of lower rents is hardly luring anyone back to the city center of Chicago. No one I know even wants to go back downtown to live or work anymore. No one even reminisces that they miss it. I just don’t see people suddenly flipping the switch and going back to life pandemic. If we all waited 14 days to flatten the curve, sure. But it’s been 9 months now and people have moved on, and few seem to be desirous to return to a busy, hectic prepandmic life in a busy, crowded city.
This is why legacy cities are so fvcked from this year. Even IF the fed govt gave a blank check to local & state governments, and that’s an enormous if, most of the money would be wasted by politicians and not effective in returning things to the way they were pre-pandemic. Will just be a friends & family funds plan where the RTA/CTA/etc get a bunch of money that just gets wasted and they’re still running nowhere near levels needed to be operationally cash-flow positive.
It was never about two weeks to flatten the curve because the simplest followup question for the non-brain dead would be: “Okay what then?” and there was never an answer to this & this question was never asked by the liberal MSM. Because those advocating these lockdowns knew it had to be sold piecemeal to the American public much like a parent has to make the spoonful of mashed carrots look and sound like an airplane to a toddler to be able to spoon feed them their veggies.
I went to Wrigleyville the other week and it looked like a retail apocalypse and that was even before another bar there just closed for good on Sunday night (RIP Dark Horse).
NYC and Chicago are totally fucked–their entire model of doing business was to bilk the younger generations out of much more of their economic livelihoods than is possible elsewhere for the urban experience and now that is gone. Now they have very high real estate values, high real estate taxes, high rents (esp in NYC) and high taxes on everything but no longer the draw to loop people in for this trade off.
Commercial activity won’t return until rents adjust downward but Jerome Powell at the Fed doesn’t want the financial system to collapse so keeps buying the MBS at 100c on the $ so price discovery is prevented from occurring and you have zombie vacant storefronts that no sane businessperson would ever pay the rent on, not just during this pandemic but also after. It’s even more ridiculous in NYC than here, and London is similar.
How some bulls can think once the vaccine is here this will all be fixed is beyond me as this event has essentially destroyed the status quo of how these legacy high tax & spend cities came to be (much like NYC’s demise in the 1970s was from their financial crisis) & now Humpty Dumpty cannot be put back on the wall.
RE taxes have increased at more than double the rate of CPI inflation over the past quarter century in these big cities and the cash flows to pay them have to come from somewhere so guess where that will come from when the market is finally allowed to clear? From real estate selling prices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_DpifWKJZo
“ One person told me their former mid-rise apartment building is probably half-empty, if not more. The landlord actually tried increase rent 20% this summer to make up for all the vacancies.”
Was the landlord named Sabrina or JoeZ?
Cuz that’s HAWT ™!
“ NYC and Chicago are totally fucked–their entire model of doing business was to bilk the younger generations out of much more of their economic livelihoods than is possible elsewhere for the urban experience and now that is gone. Now they have very high real estate values, high real estate taxes, high rents (esp in NYC) and high taxes on everything but no longer the draw to loop people in for this trade off.”
I’m going to disagree a bit. There’s still a considerable portion of millennials that are completely wed to the notion that their life is a failure if they’re not in NY, SF and to a lesser extent Chi. Their life is without meaning. They’ll keep the charade up for a while getting nickeled and dimed to death
The key is what Zers will do.
To follow up on my above comment, just some additional thoughts and insights:
I’ve always said that Chicagoland has more luxury homes than luxury buyers, and so goes the tales of woe for luxury home sellers, because the wealthy in Chicago cannot live everywhere at once. Demand for a generation shifted from the upper class suburbs to the city leaving the suburbs languishing, with slow demand and limited price appreciation. That has all changed since residents have begun fleeing the city center.
I’ve been to River North quite a few times since this pandemic and it’s a ghost town. It seemed to me that more than half the businesses have been permanently closed and the remaining open businesses were without customers. Foot traffic seems down 80% or more. I was down there as recently as last week. It’s dangerous to be down there. I’m not exaggerating, you can google yourself the stories of gun battles in the streets (google it), murders occurring in broad daylight (FBG Duck), and the roving bands of hundreds, if not a thousand or more teens causing mayhem in the streets seemingly ever other weekend night (see story about Millenium Park tree being shut off early). I’ve seen pictures on twitter of a nearly empty Michigan Ave the days before xmas while the malls and shopping centers in Oak Brook were literally full to capacity, and they didn’t seem to be honoring any capacity limits.
The result of Lori’s incompetence is that the suburbs, especially the upper class ones, have come back to life, in a major way. I’ve had appraisers tell me that even the North Shore, after a generation of stagnation, has officially bottomed out, and is sharply off the bottom. Redfin data backs this up: Deerfield home sales are up 54% YOY, and market time is cut in half. Wilmette home sales are up a whopping 142% YOY and days on the market is down an eye popping 74%, with a median 26 days on the market. Lake Forest number of home sales are up 69% YOY with the median price up nearly 9%. This flight to the suburbs is everywhere with suburbs such as Hoffman Estates, Schaumburg, and Tinley Park experiencing a renassiance. Tinley Park has median days on the market of…..7 days. That’s insane. Go ahead and check out redfin if you don’t believe me.
I’ve had surveyors tell me that 2020 was the busiest year in their 40 year history. I asked incredulously, even more than the boom years of 2004-7, and they said 2020 blows those years out of the water. I’ve had mortgage brokers tell me that they’re making money hand over fist as the money printers go brrrrrrr funding new loans and refis.
I’ve heard of surveys at major professional services firms, asking if partners want to return to the downtown office when it’s safe to return. Overwhelming, most said, NO, and some said maybe a few days a week, but only if its at a satellite office in Northbrook, Oakbrook or Lisle, because no one wants to go back to the rat race. I’ve had these same partners tell me that feel like they have regained their life back, they can eat dinner at home with their families, they have time in the morning to work out and run errands, instead of commuting. They are more productive at home and don’t miss sitting in some office tower, an hour commute away, billing away.
I truly believe that these are structural changes that will be continuing for a generation. The downward spiral has started. As Bob said above, it’s expensive to run these cities because of corruption and high union wages, and these cities have purposely destroyed much of their retail and commercial tax base. The tales of crater are everywhere in every business journal of every major city. This crater isn’t going to suddenly go away because there’s a vaccine. People have made structural changes to their lives as a result of the pandemic, and that won’t be changing anytime soon.
I have a hard time seeing how cities are going to recover anytime soon.
The problem is the lockdowns are not going to stop. So every couple of months or flu season we will see the hysterics in urban areas about “cases” and the constant shutting down and disruption of people’s lives.
The benefits of city living simply aren’t there anymore. We used to put up with high taxes, cramped living, crime, etc in trade off for access to superior cultural amenities and shorter commutes. This compromise is out of balance now imho. It is all personal sacrifice with none of the benefits.
To complicate matters, regardless of a vaccine, the hysterics have given many people PTSD of sorts. Many simply don’t want to be around crowds now so no one is going to be rushing back to crowded restaurants / venues.
We haven’t even hit the second wave of business failures and who in their right mind is going to want to open new restaurants to replace the ones killed by the lockdowns or other businesses with all the uncertainty when the politicians can shut you down on a whim?
Unfortunately, evidence is clear that the cities with draconian shutdowns fared worse than those that stayed relative open. Shutdown cities and states have had more deaths and higher rates of coronavirus per capita than open cities and states.
I’m not sure you can determine who fared better and who fared worse when we are still in the middle of the pandemic. I have seen this “cities/states that remained open are doing better” tidbit presented as fact, usually backed up by data from June/July/Aug. Things have changed quite a bit since then.
“I’ve had these same partners tell me that feel like they have regained their life back, they can eat dinner at home with their families, they have time in the morning to work out and run errands, instead of commuting. They are more productive at home and don’t miss sitting in some office tower, an hour commute away, billing away.”
Yes, absolutely. But the model of professional services firms still depends on having junior and midlevel associates coming up under partners/managing directors. Having first-year associates roam the very expensive halls of a Loop highrise while the partners are working in their home offices in the burbs won’t be the post-pandemic norm unless the entire model is changed. At my firm, we’ve been recording very short training videos (5 – 30 minutes) on a range of topics, and apparently these are intended to be temporary substitutes for the traditional practice of associates popping in to a partner’s office to ask a quick question. I see some value in that approach, but it’s not the same as having an organic, actual conversation in person, with the facts and context underlying the associates’ questions, etc. Again, I could see myself working the next 20 years from home and only returning to the office once, at age 70, to pick up my personal belongings. But I doubt that’s how it will play out.
Regarding the whole “shut down” vs “stay open” debate, please. There is no debate. Two words: New Zealand.
“Unfortunately, evidence is clear that the cities with draconian shutdowns fared worse than those that stayed relative open. Shutdown cities and states have had more deaths and higher rates of coronavirus per capita than open cities and states.”
If there is indeed a correlation then it is probably more accurately described as “Cities and states with more deaths and higher rates of coronavirus per capita were more likely to be shut down” which makes perfect sense.
“I have a hard time seeing how cities are going to recover anytime soon.”
Probably tied in to your definition of city, but I do think there’s a good chance for cities that don’t have an entrenched entitlement class (not referring to food stamps/welfare here) to reinvent themselves as a place where people want to live – think Nashville 10-15 years ago. In the Midwest Milwaukee, KC are prime. Detroit has potential and risk. 2nd tier city’s should do well – Des Moines, Louisville, Rochester, Mn
“The benefits of city living simply aren’t there anymore. We used to put up with high taxes, cramped living, crime, etc in trade off for access to superior cultural amenities and shorter commutes. This compromise is out of balance now imho. It is all personal sacrifice with none of the benefits.“
Not saying it’s right but The benefits are being conferred onto a economic class higher than oneself. This has been going on for a while and if it’s just being noticed, one was able to partake previously.
Its what folks like Sabrina wanted – a city without the poors/minorities. Send them off to the burbs
“We haven’t even hit the second wave of business failures and who in their right mind is going to want to open new restaurants to replace the ones killed by the lockdowns or other businesses with all the uncertainty when the politicians can shut you down on a whim?“
Curious what the landscape looks like for getting a loan for this type of business
“Its what folks like Sabrina wanted – a city without the poors/minorities. Send them off to the burbs”
Not going to happen. The poor are poor for a reason–they aren’t mobile to seek out better economic opportunities and don’t care to be. Sure the west and especially south sides are slowly depopulating, but not enough to make those neighborhoods able to be brown-fielded and gentrified: those that remain tend to be those causing the problems.
And the Red line is going to be extended south to 130th St by 2029, and I’m sure everyone in those miles of track south of 95th will only use it to head to and from work and to goto White Sox games with no deleterious impact on quality of life for downtown or the north side whatsoever hahaha.
@JohnnyU “Was the landlord named Sabrina or JoeZ?”
The landlord was almost certainly named homedelete doing his usual thing of just making stuff up.
Downtown rents are down significantly; occupancy not nearly so much.
“And the Red line is going to be extended south to 130th St by 2029, and I’m sure everyone in those miles of track south of 95th will only use it to head to and from work and to goto White Sox games with no deleterious impact on quality of life for downtown or the north side whatsoever hahaha.”
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Not to mention that the Metra line East of there could be repurposed to provide transport to downtown for $500 million to the same effect, not the $2.5 BILLION needed for the Red Line extention.
River North rents have PLUMMETED from a year ago. Last year 1 bedrooms for rent in the condo buildings of the area were going for $1900-$2700 a month. Now they’re listed for $1500-$2200. Don’t believe me? Check out 345 LaSalle or 400 LaSalle rental listings. It’s stunning how depressing the greater downtown area is. I’ve been heading down to Florida and Texas quite a bit this fall and winter since everything is closed. The question down there isn’t whether something is open or not. The question is whether you can get parking or a reservation because every place is so crowded. What do you know, cases and deaths per million in both states are far lower than Illinois. When you lock down every business, people just go over to each other’s houses where if someone has the virus, the viral load is so high that you’re assured to get it too.
“The question is whether you can get parking or a reservation because every place is so crowded.”
Have fun. Illinois has bent the curve (again) and cases are on the decline. They are heading up again in Florida and Texas.
But keep on being in COVID denial, deniers.
A 41-year old congressman-elect from Louisiana just passed away from COVID. Tested positive on Dec 18.
What a tragedy. As are all of the other of thousands of deaths.
Stay home. Wear a mask. Don’t eat indoors. In fact, don’t eat out at all.
“Downtown rents are down significantly; occupancy not nearly so much.”
Don’t these go hand in hand Joe?
Rents are down because occupancy is down. Supply and demand issue.
According to Crain’s, downtown occupancy is the lowest since they’ve started keeping records which was 20 years ago.
“The poor are poor for a reason–they aren’t mobile to seek out better economic opportunities and don’t care to be.”
We’ve had this discussion over and over again over the last 13 years of this blog.
Bob gets it wrong every time.
The DATA actually shows that the city of Chicago has gotten RICHER in the past decade. The middle class has been forced out of a lot of the north side and many of them and the working class have actually moved to the suburbs. “Poor” neighborhoods have gotten investments during that time as well but more is needed.
Many of those who lived in some of the public housing that has been repurposed, such as Cabrini Green, actually moved to the suburbs.
It’s great that the red line will be extended. Public transportation will help a lot.
Also, JPMorgan is putting some money into some neighborhoods on the south and west sides. Amazon is opening a distribution facility near Pullman which will also create a bunch of jobs.
“We haven’t even hit the second wave of business failures and who in their right mind is going to want to open new restaurants to replace the ones killed by the lockdowns or other businesses with all the uncertainty when the politicians can shut you down on a whim?“
Entrepreneurs are opening up new restaurants RIGHT NOW. Lol.
It’s incredible.
Here’s a great story in Avondale. If you are in his delivery radius, please support him.
https://blockclubchicago.org/2020/12/18/longtime-cook-launching-first-restaurant-bringing-authentic-thai-food-to-avondale-im-so-excited-i-cannot-sleep/
Honestly, if you think the city isn’t going to explode with new businesses and energy by next summer, you are just clueless (OR the government has really messed up rolling out the vaccine.) Or both.
HD: Now that the election is over, and Trump has lost, I see you’ve decided to rejoin us.
The reason luxury home sales are up in the suburbs is because
1) there is no inventory of SFH in the city
2) yards/outdoor space are bigger which people were looking for in the pandemic
3) with work from home, no one cares that they’re living in Lake Forest which is over an hour each way on the train.
4) some city owners bought second homes in Lake Forest (ha ha)
Lake Forest was always a second home town. It was designed to be the “country estate.” It’s great that it’s going back to that again.
“I’m going to disagree a bit. There’s still a considerable portion of millennials that are completely wed to the notion that their life is a failure if they’re not in NY, SF and to a lesser extent Chi. Their life is without meaning. They’ll keep the charade up for a while getting nickeled and dimed to death”
All of the exciting jobs are still in the big cities, no matter what anyone else says.
It’s great that, if you have a job at Facebook, you can move wherever in America but what happens when you want to leave Facebook and go somewhere else? How are you finding that job? On LinkedIn?
It’s much harder if you don’t have a network or friends of friends who you go out with for a drink after work or a Cubs game and then, lo and behold, they’re looking for a new engineer and can get your resume to the right people.
Living and working in smaller cities isn’t going to cut it.
GenZ loves the cities just as much as Millennials.
It’s GenZ that comes downtown to the music festivals and who goes shopping on the Mag Mile just so they can post about it on Instagram.
“I went to Wrigleyville the other week and it looked like a retail apocalypse and that was even before another bar there just closed for good on Sunday night (RIP Dark Horse).”
Bob the Bear is in his element. His “it’s a depression” and the “cities are doomed” looks correct this time.
But he would be wrong. Especially with the vaccine now rolling out.
Why the federal government isn’t helping our restaurants, bars and hotels is beyond me. It’s not their fault. They aren’t to blame. It will make it harder to get a “V” recovery now. In fact, no one is even talking about that anymore. It’s clearly a “W” and we’re on the second wave down.
They have to get that vaccine rolled out faster.
Of course, they aren’t prepared. More incompetence from this horrible White House.
“I see a depressed housing market spreading from the Loop (2 years inventory already) to the north, west, and south of the city in 2021 (maybe longer). Oh yeah, how long does it take for building material prices to come back down? Lumber is still up 3x from April.”
You need inventory to have a “depressed” housing market. Where’s that going to come from? Because there’s just 2 months for single family homes in the ENTIRE city.
It’s even less in the hot neighborhoods.
And it’s still super hot in condos in many neighborhoods outside of the loop too. Especially those units with some kind of outdoor space like a balcony.
The only “bad” market is the luxury one. They’ve overbuilt luxury condos.
And some investors who owned 1 or 2 bedroom condos downtown that they rented out are trying to get out of the business right now as well. As someone else has commented, with rents down big, the condo landlords can’t compete. They’re not giving away 3 months free rent.
“Interesting. It looks like the Chicago metro area will end the year around 7.3% higher sales than last year, reversing a downward trend over the last 2 – 3 years. I’m basing that off of the rolling 12 month numbers through November.”
I thought everyone was fleeing Illinois?
I guess not.
Is the city “doomed” as all the bears on this site seem to think is so certain?
Some don’t think so.
From Crain’s on Dec 23:
A Lincoln Park mansion sold this morning for $11.9 million, the highest sale price recorded for a Chicago home since August 2018.
The sale of the 12,000-square-foot mansion on a double lot on Howe Street, which was not openly listed for sale, is the highest-priced purchase of a single residential property in the Chicago area in 2020. But a situation in Winnetka, where the Chicago Tribune has reported that three different multimillion-dollar mansions may have been bought by a single entity, prevents the Howe Street mansion from taking this year’s crown at the moment.
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/residential-real-estate/lincoln-park-mansion-sells-citys-highest-price-mid-2018
Helmethofer,
Sabrina already mentioned this but I wanted to make sure you didn’t miss this since you are more impressed by anecdotes than data. Did this guy die of a hoax? https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/29/luke-letlow-covid-congress-452218
Sabrina,
Trump didn’t lose.
“Trump didn’t lose.”
Not this total derangement. Stop embarrassing yourself.
Homedelete, I expect this of HH, but not you. I thought you were partially sane.
Apparently, I was wrong.
“ You need inventory to have a “depressed” housing market”
Is this just incorrect or part of the HAWT Market Theory ™?
“ Not this total derangement. Stop embarrassing yourself.”
Sez the “woman” who marched around in a pink pussy hat
“….think Nashville 10-15 years ago. In the Midwest Milwaukee, KC are prime. Detroit has potential and risk. 2nd tier city’s should do well – Des Moines, Louisville, Rochester, Mn”
Completely anecdotal, but the number of cranes dotting the downtown Memphis skyline is astounding. Reminded me of Shanghai.
“I thought everyone was fleeing Illinois?
I guess not.”
12/23/2020 WTTW News
https://news.wttw.com/2020/12/23/illinois-exodus-census-data-finds-people-continue-leave-state
Illinois Exodus: Census Data Finds People Continue to Leave State
Thousands of people have left Illinois in the past year, according to new data from the U.S. Census Bureau.
That puts Illinois in a position unlike most other states, including our neighbors.
Sometimes it’s good to be original — the exception to the rule. Not in this case.
“Illinois is one of only two states losing population and even some of our neighboring states, that are other Midwestern states and other post-industrial states like Michigan – they have more stable population than Illinois does,” Demographer Rob Paral said. “Unfortunately, Illinois is an outlier in this. You don’t want to lose population if you’re the only one doing it.”
__________________________________________________
My commentary:
As I said above, the primary cause for this major exodus is that people are fleeing downtown, and moving outward from Chicago, and ultimately, the last home seller in that chain of sales is fleeing the state, for WI, IN, TN, FL and TX. There’s a separate issue of people fleeing depressed downstate localities, which will likely be reflected in IL losing one, if not two, house seats in 2022, that will almost assured redraw southern Illinois districts.
Illinois apparently lost almost 70,000 people from July 2019 to July 2020
https://www.bizjournals.com/austin/news/2020/12/24/texas-leads-population-gains-in-census-estimates.html
sorry, for the typo, almost “80,000” people
apparently mostly from down state
“Did this guy die of a hoax?”
he died of a heart attack during a procedure due to covid
“You need inventory to have a “depressed” housing market. Where’s that going to come from? Because there’s just 2 months for single family homes in the ENTIRE city.”
And you expect this to decrease to one month or stay the same? How many sales were pulled forward a year or two years. This isn’t a normal market.
How will Biden and Congress handle forbearance? I’ve missed the advocates wanting “free rent” or “rent cancelation” also clamoring for “free mortgages”….. It took nearly 5 months AFTER extended UI expired for Congress to pass anything. A likely divided congress is going to bailout mortgage holders now? They have no clue or plan what to do with renters and landlords currently outside of a moratorium. Even if GA goes blue in the special election Joe Mansion ain’t going to advocate for this. Will blue Senators in Arizona and Nevada up for re-election in 2022 want this? I’m sure there’s at least 10 blue house members that are worried about remaps or in swing districts that aren’t going to clamor for continuous bailouts.
How do lenders respond when forbearance ends and they have to properly mark what’s current and delinquent. Can’t claim phantom interest and low delinquencies anymore. Lending standards tighten.
Interest rates ain’t going lower to stimulate the market, pending sales have missed expectations 3 months in a row now due to affordability issues given low inventory.
How will affordability get better come April when the pilot in the SFH down the street gets laid off from AA/Delta/etc. when Congress doesn’t appropriate more bailout money and gate passenger volume is still down 50%? What happens to the Mortgage Banker or consumer lender living in their SFH after forbearance ends lending standards tighten and the refi activity slows down? What happens to the neighbors SFH down the street who works for the State, City or County Government?
Mortgage delinquencies are already rising in the city. 7.5% 30+ days past due, 5% 60+ days past due as of August which is the first month that extended UI ended (and that was $600 not $300). It’s higher now when 800K are filing per week and Illinois continuously leads all states but hey maybe everything is just fraud and everyone else will be bailed out. Bailing out Banks and mortgage servicers is so popular with Democratic constituencies in Washington.
No one has a plan. No one knows what to do. You have said multiple times over the past few months the 08 crises took 5 years to play out we are still in year one in this one. The longevity of this pandemic and potential double dip recession is another 08 moment for much of the country not to mention acute issues to Chicago and Illinois State finances. If you don’t re-amortize the Edgar Ramp now property taxes are increasing state income tax (potentially) increases SFH buyers go burrr?
https://chicagoagentmagazine.com/2020/11/10/foreclosures-down-in-chicago-but-mortgage-delinquencies-rising/
“which will likely be reflected in IL losing one, if not two, house seats in 2022, that will almost assured redraw southern Illinois districts.”
I recently read an article that was saying no state will lose two seats and I think 10 states are set to lose one.
“Bailing out Banks and mortgage servicers is so popular with Democratic constituencies in Washington.”
Fed balance sheet now at $7 trillion almost 10x what it was in 2007. We’re going to print our way to prosperity! And bitcoin now approaches $25k.
Money is defined as a unit of account, a medium of exchange and a store of value, but what currency still checks off that third one?
But Sabrina says buy now or be priced out forever bwahaha.
“…Not this total derangement. Stop embarrassing yourself.
Homedelete, I expect this of HH, but not you.”
hd/HH- they’re flip sides of same coin ime. So I’m guessing hd returned to cc after time away losing legal battles attempting to convert USA into the republic of Trumpstealingastan? Hey hd any update on how your projections re covid deaths in US compared to actual counts?
“he died of a heart attack during a procedure due to covid”
Not sure what your point is but clearly Covid is the root cause of death. No covid = no procedure = no heart attack = no death.
Helmethofer,
A celebrity died of your hoax today: Mary Anne from Gilligan’s Island.
“Interest rates ain’t going lower to stimulate the market, pending sales have missed expectations 3 months in a row now due to affordability issues given low inventory.”
Actually they can. Article on ZH about that linked. Yes you can say its not a reputable site but this article has a reputable source in FT writer John Dizard.
Mortgage rates closely follow the 10-year treasury which is just under 1%, so conceivably we could see mortgage rates up to a full point lower. Another data point is the mortgage bond market is increasingly switching from 2.0% coupon bonds to 1.5% ones and so far has only moved this benchmark in 50bps increments and it can’t go to 0 so 0.5% would be the lowest it can go which is also 1% lower than it is now.
The lower mortgage rates go the higher valuations will rise all else being equal but this will just create a bigger peak and crash.
House prices are the equity component and determined after all other fixed liabilities/cash flows are accounted for (real estate taxes, interest rates, transaction taxes, HOA fees, local incomes) and it looks like most of those are going to increase going forward with the exception of local incomes (yes even interest rates will eventually have to go up no matter how far they fall in the interim).
Yes you could see mortgage rates go lower, but you’ll see taxes+HOA rise up to absorb most of this wiggle room is my guess if they do. And you’ll see a big RE crash down the road just wait–the market right now is insane.
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/world-awash-negative-yielding-debt
“Yes you could see mortgage rates go lower, but you’ll see taxes+HOA rise up to absorb most of this wiggle room is my guess if they do”
I’m afraid that Bob’s guess on this is probably going to be correct, and not just in places like IL/Chicago, where the RE conversation has long been dominated by taxes (with more increases always around the corner). Property taxes in a lot of areas of the country are unsustainably low (taxes for our modest 1,500 sq ft house, located in a relatively expensive small city with very good k-12 (attendance area) public schools, are probably half of what they are on the 2 bedroom condo we sold in ELP), and the loss of so much in local sales tax and state income tax revenues in 2020 is going to be catastrophic in some places.
Adding to my previous post: BlackKnight states 2.8MM in forbearance as of YE 2020 with 367K forbearance agreements ending in January if not extended.
Total loans in Forbearance is 5.3% and rising with FHA and VA portfolio’s showing 9.5% of total loans in forbearance.
Delinquency rate is 3% higher than pre-pandemic with BlackKnight predicting most of these homeowners will put these properties up for sale instead of going through the foreclosure process.
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/black-knight-2020-ends-with-2-8-million-in-forbearance/
HUD’s Q3 2020 report shows the Chicago-Naperville-Elgin area as the #1 highest metro FHA delinquency rate at 22.5% and tied for #1 serious delinquency rate of 15.8%. Sounds promising….
https://www.aei.org/nowcast-10-metros-most-threatened-by-high-numbers-of-fha-delinquencies-september-2020/
“HUD’s Q3 2020 report shows the Chicago-Naperville-Elgin area as the #1 highest metro FHA delinquency rate at 22.5% and tied for #1 serious delinquency rate of 15.8%. Sounds promising….”
Let’s say they all go into foreclosure.
I guess I’ll see you in 2024-2028 with all that inventory???
Because that’s what happened the last time in the housing bust. In Illinois, because it has to go through the courts, it takes 3 years to, as long as, 8 years before the bank takes that property back.
No one is getting a deal in 2021 because someone isn’t paying their mortgage right now.
Here on this blog, there was at least one example of a condo owner living in their luxury condo for 6 years, and not paying the bank, only assessments, before they finally had to move out.
Lol.
“The lower mortgage rates go the higher valuations will rise all else being equal but this will just create a bigger peak and crash.”
Only inventory can lead to a crash.
Call me in 10 years Bob.
Gary:
We can keep giving HH a list of all of those “known” people who have now died of COVID. He’ll find some excuse or some reason why it’s NOT covid and don’t count.
These deniers are all the same.
Over 400 people a day are dying in California right now. From covid.
Texas is looking really horrific over the next few weeks as both the number of positive cases and the hospitalizations are at new all-time highs so it’s going to be really horrible there in 2 to 3 weeks.
Where is the vaccine?
“Hey hd any update on how your projections re covid deaths in US compared to actual counts?”
Oh yeah- I blocked out those lovely conversations we had early this spring with the deniers who thought the deaths wouldn’t be that high and we’d all get herd immunity eventually.
I guess not.
Likely will see 400,000 Americans dead by the time Trump leaves office.
The incompetence.
He will go down in history as our most incompetent president. Worse than even Hoover.
“And bitcoin now approaches $25k.”
Get with the program Bob. It’s at $30k.
“And you expect this to decrease to one month or stay the same? How many sales were pulled forward a year or two years. This isn’t a normal market.”
Demographics are everything.
The largest generation in US history is buying homes now. They don’t just buy for one year and then none of them buy again. Builders have been waiting several years to see them finally leave their apartments and buy their home. Now, it’s happening.
If you think all of those Millennials aged 28 to 32 actually found a house and managed to buy it in the last 9 months, then I guess this hot market will be over.
But that’s unlikely as there wasn’t enough inventory for them all to do that.
Also, buying is now much cheaper than renting, even with the rental incentives. Trends in housing don’t end abruptly in just a few months. They’re trends for a reason. We’ve just seen a 10 year trend in everyone renting. Now it’s changing back to people wanting to buy. It will be a multi-year trend as well.
There’s a reason the Southbank project is launching a condo building in 2021 after several years of building apartment towers. They are feeling the trend too. People want to buy again. They want to own it. Sales should be strong there.
“he died of a heart attack during a procedure due to covid”
Heart attack and stroke are both common with covid. It attacks all your systems.
But, by the way, where did you hear this? I’ve read a lot of the coverage about his death and not a single outlet said it was of a heart attack.
Huh.
But I guess this “theory” is designed to make the deniers feel better about themselves.
“ Only inventory can lead to a crash.”
Are you really this dumb or is it a shill skillset?
“Illinois apparently lost almost 70,000 people from July 2019 to July 2020”
Not surprised. This has been happening for several years now. As the Tribune has pointed out with its great reporting a year or two ago, the vast majority are moving to nearby states.
But Texas is certainly popular. I have friends who moved there. Nashville remains one of the top destinations as well.
The country is big. If you hate where you live, just move.
“As I said above, the primary cause for this major exodus is that people are fleeing downtown, and moving outward from Chicago, and ultimately, the last home seller in that chain of sales is fleeing the state, for WI, IN, TN, FL and TX.”
But wait. The “story” was that ALL the rich people were fleeing. That the taxes were so horrible. That none would want to live here.
It’s simply not true.
“Sez the “woman” who marched around in a pink pussy hat”
huh?
Another sexist comment by our resident misogynist JohnnyU.
No one at the women’s march said Trump didn’t win the election. He, of course, never won the popular vote in two tries. But no one was saying he didn’t win the electoral college. No one said Hillary should be President. We organized and we made sure we 1) elected Democrats in 2018 and 2) defeated Trump in his re-election. Both were a success.
My god. Hillary Clinton showed the utmost class in 2016 by not only calling Trump the night of the election and conceding to him, but also not challenging the state results in places like Michigan where Trump won by only 10,000.
There was no one of this “Hillary won” nonsense because women aren’t deranged.
Stop embarrassing yourselves JohnnyU and Homedelete. Donnie lost bigly. He lost in the biggest way. The largest for an incumbent since 1900.
He needs to move onto his private life now. Hanging out on golf courses where he can’t do any more harm to the country.
“ Also, buying is now much cheaper than renting, even with the rental incentives. Trends in housing don’t end abruptly in just a few months. They’re trends for a reason. We’ve just seen a 10 year trend in everyone renting. Now it’s changing back to people wanting to buy. It will be a multi-year trend as well.”
You’re either day drinking or it’s JoeZ’s turn to post
You were bleating about the number of free months you can get by singing a lease but today the trend has changed.
“ There’s a reason the Southbank project is launching a condo building in 2021 after several years of building apartment towers. They are feeling the trend too. People want to buy again. They want to own it. Sales should be strong there.}
The reason is they can’t get funding for apartments.
So is the developer going spec on the deal? I mean they should follow your expert advice and not monkey around trying to pre-sell, just start building
I can’t teach basic economics to some of you.
If you have no inventory and you have a lot of buyers, you don’t have a “depressed” housing market.
This site has covered a depressed housing market. It covered it for years. Go back into the archives and read all about it. Go back to 2011 and 2012. Go see why prices were on the decline.
None of the same conditions exist in 2021.
As the vaccine rolls out and the economy reopens, demand will accelerate for city homes.
If you are looking for deals, you likely won’t find many except on rentals and luxury condos, both of which have a LOT of inventory right now downtown.
Tribune Tower is going to start move-ins in 2021. That is a couple hundred more condos that are available. I’ll be interested to see how many of those they’ve sold.
“ No one said Hillary should be President..”
Russia, Russia, Russia
You are drunk and stupid.
“You were bleating about the number of free months you can get by singing a lease but today the trend has changed.”
Yeah. If you’re looking to rent, now is the time. There are some great deals out there. They won’t be around that long though. By the time the vaccine is rolling out and we’re all at Cubs games again, a lot of the deals won’t be as good.
But we’ll see how quickly offices reopen downtown and how much hiring they do.
A lot of people signing those leases will be GenZ. The Millennial trend of buying is here to stay for years. They are forming families and now, with mortgage rates so low, want to buy something. That’s a multi-year trend.
“The reason is they can’t get funding for apartments.”
This is wrong JohnnyU. It’s pretty obvious you don’t live in Chicago and have no idea what’s going on. Being in the suburbs doesn’t give you any clear idea what is happening in Chicago.
The developers actually have an easier time getting the apartment development loans, even with the pandemic. Several new apartment towers are due to start construction shortly. Lots of other developments MUST add in apartments as part of the building or else they can’t get the loan just for condos.
That’s what will be interesting about Southbank. They are going for lower priced condos. They’re going to need a lot of pre-sales, probably, in order to get the loan. Not sure what kind of cut-off the bank will want to give it the green light.
But there has been no “new” condo buildings in that area for years. Demand is there and it’s on the hot Chicago River. Also, it will be fairly “affordable” with 80% of the units under $1 million. This is the sweet spot.
Sales center opens in January.
“If you have no inventory and you have a lot of buyers, you don’t have a “depressed” housing market.“
If what you’re saying was correct we’d be seeing explosive gains, bidding wars and near zero DoM.
But don’t let things like the truth interfere with your fantasy
“Are you really this dumb or is it a shill skillset?”
Only inventory can lead to a crash. Housing prices are sticky on the way down. Only inventory can lead to a crash. What was the inventory in 2007? Only inventory can lead to a crash. What is the inventory right now? Only inventory can lead to a crash. How many new properties are being built? Only inventory can lead to a crash.
A housing “crash” is rare.
A housing “crash” is defined as a rapid and unanticipated drop in prices.
It’s never happened. Housing “busts” take years to play out. A “crash”? Nope.
“If what you’re saying was correct we’d be seeing explosive gains, bidding wars and near zero DoM.”
Um…yeah. We are.
A realtor friend of mine just had 3 closings on the same day. In December. That’s never happened before.
Many in the housing industry are concerned about it overheating. Not crashing.
It actually might be a good thing if mortgage rates were to go up a half a point to cool it off.
Saying that the Russians interfered in the election is not the same thing as saying she won the presidency.
Without Russian interference, the Wikileaks, for instance, she might have won. But if Comey hadn’t issued his letter the week before, she might have won too.
But none of this is at all similar to what MAGAstans are saying right now. They literally are saying Trump won when he clearly did not. There is NO evidence of election fraud. Anywhere. In fact, it’s amazing how clean that election was considering a raging pandemic was happening at the same time. Kudos to all those election officials. They did an amazing job with record turnout.
Trump lost overwhelmingly. It wasn’t even close. 145,000 votes in Michigan isn’t close. He lost Georgia for the first time since the 1990s for the Republicans. Demographics are changing there. All those Chicagoans and new college grads are moving there. The state is turning blue.
Get with the reality. Time to stop watching fake news.
And the Republicans keep digging themselves into an ever deeper hole. Trump could never get above 50%. That bodes poorly for winning future elections.
“Trump lost overwhelmingly. It wasn’t even close. 145,000 votes in Michigan isn’t close. He lost Georgia for the first time since the 1990s for the Republicans. Demographics are changing there. All those Chicagoans and new college grads are moving there. The state is turning blue. ”
You don’t seriously believe Biden legitimately received 80,000,000 votes, do you? More than Obama? You really believe that Biden received more than any other presidential candidate in the history of the United States of America?
So, I take an 8 month hiatus from the TDS of a real estate site, to post my observations of the implosion of the city center real market, and I return to little more than TDS and coronavirus fear porn.
Adios folks, I’ll be back in another 8 months to report more crater and carnage. This decline just started and it’s got a long way to go…
Don’t worry, I won’t let the door hit my behind on the way out…
“And bitcoin now approaches $25k.”
Get with the program Bob. It’s at $30k.”
I’m sure you’re on Robinhood & Coinbase. Perhaps your even on reddit with the Wall Street Bets crowd, eh?
Rocket to the moon! Aye!
2020 was the biggest IPO year in history far surpassing 1999. Rocket to the moon, right Sabrina? Were you on eTrade or Datek back then? 😀
“It’s never happened. Housing “busts” take years to play out. A “crash”? Nope.”
When government interference prevents price discovery (ie: courts, federal reserve stabilizing asset prices by printing money & low interest rates) you’re right there is no “crash” as there is no ticker tape, per se. The market seizes up and price discovery ceases to occur.
So because you don’t have data points confirming this and transaction volume activity has been reduced this makes all the difference?
The thing is, Sabrina, it doesn’t appear houses are traded like listed securities, so a market seizing up will still have affects on those involved, no?
“Get with the program Bob. [Bitcoin’s] at $30k.”
——————————
Uh, Sabrina? That’s not a good thing. Manias are never a good thing.
“By the time the vaccine is rolling out and we’re all at Cubs games again, a lot of the deals won’t be as good.”
Cubs will not have full stands until 2022. I thought they would be back to full by late summer a few months back now it feels like at best 50% by August/September. Pessimism is starting to creep on the timeless/effectiveness of the rollout and the goalposts keep moving on the percentage of people needed to get inoculated to achieve “herd immunity”
“If you think all of those Millennials aged 28 to 32 actually found a house and managed to buy it in the last 9 months, then I guess this hot market will be over.”
If you think all those millennials still have jobs the unemployment report shows something different….. It was the young people who lost their jobs not the people nearing retirement. I have plenty of friends in this “28 – 32” age bracket they have been out of work since summer who had actual careers (not working as a barista, bartender, or server). There’s maybe one or two that I can think of (ex government of course) that haven’t had a negative employment (layoff/furlough, etc.) or financial situation (hours cut, moved to lower paying jobs, etc.). The ones that have been lucky like me guess what no bonus this year (15% of cash pay and 25% including stock based on last year). I have some that finally got out of their parents basement in the past 2 – 3 years that are now back home where they started….. Yes, all the millennials that have been humping for the last 9 months are finally going to start buying homes when article after article shows a severe decrease (due to the pandemic) in millennials wanting kids in the next 12 months.
“Let’s say they all go into foreclosure.”
Let’s read the article which BlackKnight says they expect people to sell not be foreclosed upon. That’s 3 months of inventory based on 2020 sales. Again, I said 2021 has a lot of uncertainty. I’m struggling to see more “upside” from where we currently are. I don’t expect the housing market to “crash” next year but do I expect us to have higher inventory come YE 2021 in SFH compared to YE 2020. Is it 4 months, 6 months or longer we will see but it’s higher than now. Condo Market currently 24 months in the loop. I don’t know if gets materially worse or stays relatively the same.
“A realtor friend of mine just had 3 closings on the same day. In December. That’s never happened before.”
That’s anecdata. December will be up maybe 15% over last year but that’s still making up for lost time. The year is going to end slightly down – less than 1.2% in volume.
“Many in the housing industry are concerned about it overheating. Not crashing.”
Nothing to worry about. Case Shiller shows the Chicago area with home prices up 6.3% in the last year. That’s for October and later months might be better but that’s for the whole area and Chicago has been dragging for months and there are plenty of examples of homes in the city selling for less than what was paid a few years ago.
“You don’t seriously believe Biden legitimately received 80,000,000 votes, do you? More than Obama? You really believe that Biden received more than any other presidential candidate in the history of the United States of America?”
Why is this so hard to believe? It’ clear why this happened: Trump. Some huge percentage of people (35%?) voted against Trump, not for Biden.
“This is wrong JohnnyU. It’s pretty obvious you don’t live in Chicago and have no idea what’s going on. Being in the suburbs doesn’t give you any clear idea what is happening in Chicago.
The developers actually have an easier time getting the apartment development loans, even with the pandemic. Several new apartment towers are due to start construction shortly. Lots of other developments MUST add in apartments as part of the building or else they can’t get the loan just for condos.”
It’s funny seeing racists getting upset and then spewing all kinds of made up nonsense.
“ That’s what will be interesting about Southbank. They are going for lower priced condos. They’re going to need a lot of pre-sales, probably, in order to get the loan. Not sure what kind of cut-off the bank will want to give it the green light.
But there has been no “new” condo buildings in that area for years. Demand is there and it’s on the hot Chicago River. Also, it will be fairly “affordable” with 80% of the units under $1 million. This is the sweet spot.
Sales center opens in January.”
Wait a sec, I thought there was all this pent up demand. Why in the hell would any developer not strike while the iron was hot? This waiting for pre-sales is for fools. If Sabrina says there’s pent up demand, you can take it to the bank (kinda like Houston not being an O&G town and a myriad of other idiotic comments). In fact I’m sure the Developer is scheduling a meeting Monday morning with the banks to get their loan. Proforma/Shmoforma, just show the bank your idiotic utterances as proof and they’ll make it rain
““ No one said Hillary should be President..”
https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/06/politics/electoral-college-vote-count-objections/index.html
I’m just going to leave this here as yet another shining example of your stupidity
It’s cute seeing how stupid and gullible you are
“ “A realtor friend of mine just had 3 closings on the same day. In December. That’s never happened before.”
That’s anecdata. December will be up maybe 15% over last year but that’s still making up for lost time. The year is going to end slightly down – less than 1.2% in volume.”
Unpossible! You and your stats have nothing on Sabrina’s ill conceived “Opinions” and imaginary “friends”. Gary you should be getting on board the pent up demand gravy train Vs looking at numbers
“Many in the housing industry are concerned about it overheating. Not crashing.”
Nothing to worry about. Case Shiller shows the Chicago area with home prices up 6.3% in the last year. That’s for October and later months might be better but that’s for the whole area and Chicago has been dragging for months and there are plenty of examples of homes in the city selling for less than what was paid a few years ago.
There you go with you fancy data again.
Nice that the Chicago area is seeing appreciation, would be interesting to see the contributions of suburbs vs city proper as the Suburban market is/was HAWT ™
You don’t seriously believe Biden legitimately received 80,000,000 votes, do you? More than Obama? You really believe that Biden received more than any other presidential candidate in the history of the United States of America?
Biden received about 17% more votes than Obama’s 2008 vote total. Between 2008 and 2020, the number of eligible voters increased by 12%. Turnout in 2020 was 8% higher than in 2008. It would have been very surprising if the winner of the 2020 election did not receive more votes than “any other presidential candidate in the history of the United States of America”.
BTW, Trump received more votes than any other presidential candidate in the history of the US except Joe Biden.
Numbers are fun!!
“Biden received about 17% more votes than Obama’s 2008 vote total. Between 2008 and 2020, the number of eligible voters increased by 12%. Turnout in 2020 was 8% higher than in 2008. It would have been very surprising if the winner of the 2020 election did not receive more votes than “any other presidential candidate in the history of the United States of America”.”
Madeline, it’s charming how oblivious this comment is. A bit like Amelia Bedelia “dusting the curtains” or Sam and Frodo asking when second breakfast will be served. Next you’ll be saying “But AP fact checked it!!!” Maybe Bilbo Baggins can serve you some warm milk to calm you down when you realize that elections in some states really are run like third world countries. Bilbo Baggins will whisper in your ear that you’re just not ready for the truth…
“You and your stats have nothing on Sabrina’s ill conceived “Opinions” and imaginary “friends”.”
“Sabrina” is a google analyst(s) and likely not even a she if only one analyst. Nothing about her story makes sense and they have outed themselves with outlandish claims that Sabrina’s ma caught covid (at a time when few others did around here).
Just look how regularly this “blog” is updated and it’s clear it’s in a cadence only a business would do–nobody casually runs a blog with such regimented posting.
Not sure what goog’s goal is with this given that I do believe Sabs that this site doesn’t make any money. Perhaps its something to do with societal influence.
“Maybe Bilbo Baggins can serve you some warm milk to calm you down when you realize that elections in some states really are run like third world countries.”
Hurling insults doesn’t support your claims. Where is your evidence of this third world process?
For those who still think the hospital bed shortage is a hoax there’s this: https://news.yahoo.com/l-hospital-many-covid-19-065720097.html
“ For those who still think the hospital bed shortage is a hoax there’s this: https://news.yahoo.com/l-hospital-many-covid-19-065720097.html”
Ca seems to be a complete shitshow (especially the south) Kinda surprised Newsom hasn’t done much besides extend the stay at home order.
And I’m really shocked that Sabrina isn’t calling Newsom, Fat Fuck or Cuomo out for their mismanagement.
@ Gary,
HHS is saying national hospital ICU utilization is at 61% thru 12/29. It also shows that just 17% of hospital beds nationally utilized are COVID related. The link below through 12/29 is searchable by state and I believe specific hospitals. It even breaks out COVID utilization.
CA is showing 353 out of 360 hospitals reporting, 86% ICU bed utilization. 32% related to covid. Only three states are above 25% COVID utilization.
IIRC, hospital administrators typically would want at least 80% utilization otherwise they’d have unused capacity.
Im sure there are hospitals on the margins that are constrained, but that is nothing new. Stories every year about a hospital bursting at the seams during flu season.
https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/hospital-capacity#hospital-utilization
Media is pushing scary headlines for clicks.
What is also odd… is if you go to CDC, COVID apparently cured the flu as it is now practically non-existent.
Gary, the evidence is everywhere. All you have to do is google it. But I already know your answers, “that’s not evidence!” And “but it’s not credible evidence” and “it’s credible but not enough to overturn the election!” Nothing will change your mind.
The real third world part of the election was the ridiculous handling of the ballot process and counting process. Mailing ballots to dead people, outdated voter rolls, no signature matches on absentee ballots, ballot curing in only Democrat counties, abysmally low rejection rates of incomplete or invalid ballots, extremely lax ‘incapacitated’ rules especially in WI (which included members of the electoral college claiming the same). Cuba and Venezuela would
Be proud of all the last minutes rule changes all of which somehow magically gave Biden more votes than any other president in history. Biden lost 17 of 18 bell weather counties, won the fewest # of counties, and there was a red wave in the house and in down ballot races. NH even flipped red for goodness sake! But not of Biden’s coat tails helped candidate down ballot. But whatever. There will always be an asterisk next to Biden.
The statistic that would show fraud would be if the % of rejected ballots was significantly different from previous elections and that appears to be the case.
Not saying Trump would’ve won if no fraud as he had the lowest approval rating throughout his term of any President in modern history since polling started, but it looks like there were some liberties taken at the local level to ensure votes counted that should not have been counted.
“What is also odd… is if you go to CDC, COVID apparently cured the flu as it is now practically non-existent.”
Flu is less transmissible than covid-19 but transmits via similar pathways as it, so it makes sense that the social distancing and other measures taken to stop the spread of covid-19 would also be effective against influenza and to a larger degree as it is less transmissible.
We don’t largely shut down society for the flu so it exists in most years, this year with society largely being shut down/socially distant to combat covid the flu doesn’t stand a chance.
Gary, the evidence is everywhere.
Correction: the evidence is everywhere except in the 60+ court cases that were filed. Which is a weird place for evidence not to be.
“Gary, the evidence is everywhere.”
Fine. Pick a state and pick one type of so-called fraud that had a significant impact on the result and let’s do deep dive on it. All I’ve seen is total garbage for “evidence” and it’s all been rejected.
“Im sure there are hospitals on the margins that are constrained, but that is nothing new. Stories every year about a hospital bursting at the seams during flu season.”
You might want to drill down a bit deeper beyond the averages. The NYT has a great map that shows all the hospitals in the country. It’s not pretty. Check out the DFW area: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-hospitals-near-you.html Talk about a shit show.
This is not a normal flu season. I’ve never heard of anything like this before. Some hospitals are talking triage.
I guess Covid was around in 2018 too…
https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/
“The 2017-2018 influenza epidemic is sending people to hospitals and urgent-care centers in every state, and medical centers are responding with extraordinary measures: asking staff to work overtime, setting up triage tents, restricting friends and family visits and canceling elective surgeries, to name a few.”
Local news story in CA regarding overcrowding…. in 2018. Had to open two dozen rooms in other buildings.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=flu+season+crowded+hospital&docid=608001614012352305&mid=9B84274BA97E173AC0109B84274BA97E173AC010&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
Oh wait… one hospital had to put up a makeshift tent.
There’s a difference between running out of hospital beds and running out of ICU beds. Now we are running out of ICU beds. And the 2017 – 2018 flu season didn’t kill 350,000 people.
“Correction: the evidence is everywhere except in the 60+ court cases that were filed. Which is a weird place for evidence not to be.”
FACT CHECK: False. Missing context.
Only one of those lawsuits actually addressed, on the merits, the evidence of fraud or mishandling of the election. The remainder were tossed on procedural grounds such as standing and laches.
However, state Legislatures in battleground states have addressed these issues and are continuing to address them.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/election-integrity-group-meets-with-legislators-from-contested-states-301199902.html
” The evidence discussed includes unprecedented public-private partnerships that created a two-tiered election system in the states that determined the winner of the Electoral College. Funded by over $400 million from Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg, these public-private partnerships sought to boost turnout in Democratic strongholds while depressing turnout in conservative areas, violating constitutional guarantees of due process and equal protection.
The private monies paid the salaries of election workers and funded the purchase of election equipment, but came with strict conditions on the conduct of elections in jurisdictions that accepted the money. These private interventions were aided by the actions of public officials, who sought to undermine transparency, fought efforts to audit the results, threatened legislators with investigation and prosecution for questioning the reported results, and in some cases even physically prevented state lawmakers from entering the Capitol Building in order to prevent them from challenging election certification.”
“But [none] of Biden’s coat tails helped candidate down ballot. But whatever. There will always be an asterisk next to Biden.”
———————–
The question of whether a candidate has coat tails has been a question of every presidential candidate since forever. The lack of Biden coat tails (funny how the “fraud” didn’t extend down ballot) is easily explained: Voters did not trust Trump with power, and do not trust the Democratic Party with power. So they turfed Trump out, reduced the size of the Democratic majority in the House, and left the Senate in Republican Party control.
As for an asterisk next to Biden — it will only exist in the fantasies of Trump and his fans. There’s no objective reason (like 161 games) for putting an asterisk besides Biden’s name.
Finally, for those complaining about suits being tossed on procedural grounds and how only one case allegedly addressed fraud “on the merits;” If you look at the allegations of the complaints, the lawyers were very careful not to say that fraud actually occurred. Why? because false statements to a court has severe penalties for lawyers. What the lawyers alleged was only that fraud “was possible” and “could have occurred” and there were shoddy practices that opened “opportunities” for fraud. Nobody came out and said — eye to eye with a judge — that fraud “did” occur, and it occurred “here.” So even if you disregard the procedural grounds for tossing cases, the cases were meritless on their faces.
In fact, the only actual fraud incident I have read of is where a man obtained and cast a ballot in his dead mother’s name — for Trump. He wanted to protest the (in his mind) fraudulent nature of the election by showing that it could be done.
a whiny snowflake alleged election fraud without substantiation other than hurt feelings then posted:
“…But not of Biden’s coat tails helped candidate down ballot. But whatever. There will always be an asterisk next to Biden.”
Ironic. Speaking of asterisks a whining djt made unsubstantiated allegations re election fraud after ’16 election after dt lost the popular vote by 2.85 million votes. But DT disbanded his Voter Fraud Commission in 2018 when it couldn’t find supporting evidence. Hey I bet hd sent the ‘bilionaire’ (another unsubstantiated claim worthy of an asterisk imo) some $ to assist his ‘battle for righteousness’. Both are pitiable fools imho.
“The private monies paid the salaries of election workers and funded the purchase of election equipment, but came with strict conditions on the conduct of elections in jurisdictions that accepted the money.”
Stop HD. It’s not George Soros but now it’s Mark Zuckerberg?
LMFAO.
Deniers of Covid (it’s caused by 5G, don’t you know?) and now deniers of a clear cut WIN by Joseph Biden. By 7 million votes.
The PEOPLE have spoken. The cities, and suburbs, have said “enough.”
We are tired of the con man. People are dying and he’s done NOTHING in office. Just incompetence over and over and over again.
Time to leave office and let real politicians do their thing. Experience matters. We have things that need to be done for the country.
Go listen to his phone call with the Georgia officials. Over 3,000 people are dying every day and THIS is what he’s spending his time on?
Shameful.
“There’s a difference between running out of hospital beds and running out of ICU beds.”
Or oxygen. The national guard has been called in to help with the oxygen supply in California.
This is NOT the f*cking flu. Wake up.
“Fine. Pick a state and pick one type of so-called fraud that had a significant impact on the result and let’s do deep dive on it. All I’ve seen is total garbage for “evidence” and it’s all been rejected.”
There is NO “evidence.” It is alternative universe craziness. Like the moon landing crazies.
They’re all delusional. Listen to the actual election officials in Georgia. They are on the ground. They have the facts.
But HD and HH and other crazies don’t want to listen to them. They’re deep state, don’t you know?
The Republican Party is doomed. It will no longer exist as of this week. There is MAGA and moderate Republicans like Mitt Romney and other sane individuals. MAGA is about 30%. If they think they can win statewide or national elections with that, they should go for it.
But that’s what has happened. It is Trump and it is mainstream Republicans. I don’t see how Mitt Romney ever joins with the MAGAs going forward.
No one says a political party lasts forever. RIP Republican Party.
“Mailing ballots to dead people, outdated voter rolls, no signature matches on absentee ballots, ballot curing in only Democrat counties, abysmally low rejection rates of incomplete or invalid ballots, extremely lax ‘incapacitated’ rules especially in WI (which included members of the electoral college claiming the same)”
Homedelete, why aren’t you on the President’s legal team? He clearly needs you and your “evidence.” It’s SO clear. As clear as day. Help him!
Please include the thousand of ballots to “dead people” and lax “incapacitated” rules in Wisconsin.
LMFAO.
Georgia’s Secretary of State said there were TWO dead people who voted in Georgia in November on the phone call. TWO.
Ba ha ha ha.
But I guess he’s lying for some reason. He DOESN’T want all “5,000” alleged dead people votes to be out there? Why??? He’s part of the conspiracy???
None of it makes sense Homedelete. NONE.
The only reason Donald Trump lost Wisconsin is because 20,000 more people in Republican Waukesha County said, “no more.” Those 20,000 voters who voted for Donald in 2016 said, “no more con.”
You get those voters, you win. And Joe Biden got them.
Had nothing to do with “incapacitated” bullshit you’re going on and on about HD.
Oh- and please tell me about the “bellwether” counties again. Counties have nothing to do with it. There are counties with 500 votes and then there is Cook County.
Give me a break HD. You are acting like a fool.
“Im sure there are hospitals on the margins that are constrained, but that is nothing new.”
Ambulances in LA County are waiting outside the hospitals for up to 7 hours with patients in their ambulances because there’s no room in the hospital.
They have patients in the gift shop Russ.
Wake up.
Not expected to peak until mid-February.
Our poor medical professionals. They all need therapy and mental health help. It’s tragic. Worse than war because there is no break or pause. Just wave after wave of death. And little they can do to help patients.
“And I’m really shocked that Sabrina isn’t calling Newsom, Fat Fuck or Cuomo out for their mismanagement.”
California has one of the tightest state restrictions. What else is Newsom supposed to do? They have to open more overflow facilities and make sure they get as many medical professionals vaccinated as possible.
Gov Abbott in Texas and DeSantis in Florida have absolute horror shows down there too. Almost no restrictions. Texas has record hospitalizations again. It has the second most COVID cases in the country now.
Just compare Texas with Illinois right now. Illinois has bent the curve. Our cases and hospitalizations have decreased. We’ll see what happens the next few weeks now that the holidays have passed. But fingers crossed.
But Texas is going to be awful for the next few weeks. Just really tragic. Mid-January is going to be heartbreaking there.
Today they reported another record high in hospitalization of 12,563. 6th time in the last 7 days its been at record highs. ICU is full in several parts of the state. The deaths will come in 2 to 3 weeks, unfortunately.
20% positivity rate.
In Illinois, we had 3,817 in the hospital. Our positivity rate was 8.3%.
I’d say Pritzker is doing a fine job, comparatively, for the states with big urban centers.
Also, Illinois has vaccinated more than almost any other state.
“Hurling insults doesn’t support your claims. Where is your evidence of this third world process?”
There is NONE. Just because you say it, doesn’t make it so.
All of you geniuses should be on the President’s legal team. He needs you now. Desperately. Because his current team doesn’t have this so-called “evidence.” In over 60 cases, they haven’t given ANY evidence.
““Sabrina” is a google analyst(s) and likely not even a she if only one analyst. Nothing about her story makes sense and they have outed themselves with outlandish claims that Sabrina’s ma caught covid (at a time when few others did around here).”
Aw…Bob. So glad to see you still think a Russian bot is running Crib Chatter. At least it’s a different theory than JohnnyU’s who still thinks, for whatever wacky reason, that I’m the one who shall not be named.
And thanks for the compliment that no one who casually runs a blog would do such regimented posting. I sometimes wonder why I keep it going, but I just love Chicago real estate so darn much so I keep going. Other than the year when I had to go overseas and couldn’t keep it up, I do manage to find the time.
My family thinks I’m crazy. Lol.
And now look, we are in another hot real estate cycle. It’s only taken 13 years to get here. Lol.
“You don’t seriously believe Biden legitimately received 80,000,000 votes, do you? More than Obama?”
Yes!!!!
We’re tired of the con man.
Wake up. The people HAVE spoken. We’re tired of the con and the incompetence. We’re tired of the endless lies. We’re tired of the President having NO empathy and not caring that Americans are dying every day. We’re tired of him having no clue about what is going on with legislation. We’re tired of the President watching 10 hours of tv every day.
Is that so hard to believe?
Joe Biden is a good man. With experience. He’s exactly what we need right now. Someone who knows how to actually run the country.
Oh, and he’ll hire competent people into his cabinet too. Thank goodness.
“That’s anecdata. December will be up maybe 15% over last year but that’s still making up for lost time.”
Lost time? From March?
No. It’s a sign that the housing market has remained hot. People aren’t taking the winter off and waiting for the spring buying season.
In fact, the spring buying season starts this week.
Let the games begin.
Homedelete,
The “article” you posted is a paid press release. It was put together by the “watchdog group” that the article is about. Here is a more detailed and objective article with facts: https://www.npr.org/2020/12/08/943242106/how-private-money-from-facebooks-ceo-saved-the-2020-election
“Lost time? From March?”
Yeah, the whole market got shifted out a couple of months. January might still be a bit stronger than last year but I think that will be the end of it – though it will be difficult to tell because we’ll be comping against the pandemic.
“Yeah, the whole market got shifted out a couple of months.”
Yes- a couple of months. But I don’t buy into it that those who were going to look in, say, April, for some reason decided to wait until December.
Why?
The housing market “reopened” in May, which essentially wiped out the spring market. The spring market happened in the summer due to pent-up demand.
But there’s no reason why, 6 months later, it’s STILL pent-up. Not enough for my friend to have 3 closings on the same day in December. Unless, of course, it’s just a hot market.
New home builders not seeing any slowdown in demand, even though every year at this time they do. And these are homes which won’t be built for a year so it’s not someone who is trying to escape the pandemic in some way.
“We’re tired of the con and the incompetence. We’re tired of the endless lies.”
What are you even talking about?? What con? That Trump didn’t deliver enough on his campaign promises? That should make you happy. The con was the Russia-hoax and slimes like Rachel Maddow and CNN who promoted lies. These people are flat-out immoral. Must have been raised by the worst kind of people as parents. Trump has been a very hard working president. His achievements have been buried by the hate-filled TDS jewsmedia.
“By the time the vaccine is rolling out and we’re all at Cubs games again, a lot of the deals won’t be as good.”
Haha, good luck. Read about the Great Reset. We’re not going back. They aren’t giving up their lockdowns, after this simulation has been so successful. Their manufactured fear has worked. Lightfoot shut down the city after St. Pat’s Saturday, that was March 16, 2020 and here we are almost a year later and we’re still on lockdown. Nobody thought it was going to last this long (the COVID hoax), and now the media is talikng about a NEW STRAIN!!! So no Cub games for the proles.
Investigating empty Gloucester Hospital – Debbie Hicks (subsequently arrested (not kidding), YouTube censored the video):
skip to 3:00 min https://lbry.tv/@StandUpX_U4F:b/debbiehicks_gloucestershireroyalhospitalempty_20201227:3
They are wiping out the entrepreneurial middle class. Everyone will be shopping at Walmart and Costco who are allowed to operate while the private citizens are on lockdown! Next will be socialism and government-sponsored health care. People are being moved to serfdom.
Klaus Schwab of the World Economic Forum is telling young people: “In 10 years, you will own nothing and be happy”. Now ask yourself, if we own nothing, then who owns it instead? Duh. They’re preaching this radical environmentalism so morons will live like slaves in green zone apartments, own nothing, and have debt and use a zipcar. Meanwhile somebody will be owning things, somebody has to. Right?
Biden is just the face-man, the shabbos goy, the place-holder. That MORON has no experience, because in 47 years of flip-flopping narcissist “public service” he has seen none of this coming. The people he hires into US government will be some of the most evil people this nation has ever seen.
“What are you even talking about?? What con?”
The con that he was going to “make America great again” when he was just a reality tv star.
That’s all.
That’s the big con.
Gosh, do you think that his great healthcare plan will be out in the next 2 weeks with all this stuff going on about his threats to the Georgia Secretary of State? Do you think it will be delayed AGAIN?
Lol.
Also, his great “con” about being a successful businessman.
A lot of people actually believe that story.
It’s interesting because the Scottish press has already started getting more aggressive about what is really going on at his Scottish golf courses which have never made him money since he bought them. Just the other day they had further investigation about how they’ve lost Trump something like 150 million pounds with no clear indication where Trump ever got the money to buy them in the first place and who is covering the losses today, nor why they are.
But I’m sure the great journalists in the UK will figure it all out in due time. Also, now that Trump has lost and will soon no longer be a head of state, he’s open to further investigations by the Scottish government that he otherwise has not been.
“That MORON has no experience, because in 47 years of flip-flopping narcissist “public service” he has seen none of this coming.”
That moron had the biggest election victory over an incumbent since 1900.
Gosh. Must be hard for MAGAs to handle losing like that to someone so dumb. And he has dementia too. Gosh.
“What are you even talking about?? What con? That Trump didn’t deliver enough on his campaign promises?”
Mexico is going to pay for a wall.
Everyone who wants a test will get a test.
20 MM vaccinated by Dec 31
He won the election
The virus will go away like magic
We’re better off with Iran producing more nuclear material
Maybe China hacked our computers, not Russia
We need to stop testing so much so that we will have fewer Covid cases
He’s got a better healthcare plan than Obamacare
That’s just off the top of my head.
” Now ask yourself, if we own nothing, then who owns it instead? Duh. They’re preaching this radical environmentalism so morons will live like slaves in green zone apartments, own nothing, and have debt and use a zipcar. Meanwhile somebody will be owning things, somebody has to. Right?”
We will be owning the stock of companies that own stuff and we will have fewer headaches.
Sabrina,
Sure, some people who put the brakes on in March might have sat on their hands until December. And people who would normally have started looking to move in September might have pushed it off until October.
Regardless, YTD we are still behind last year. Slightly. And each month that goes by the contract activity has grown from last year by a smaller percentage. The market is not hot. And it doesn’t matter what your friend did in December. You can’t look at one data point and extrapolate it to 16,000 other realtors.
Biden cheated.
The Democrats are evil people. They promoted the Antifa riots and hateful BLM bullshit (which only cares about black lives when a white is involved). This is deep immorality that you’re associating and sympathizing with.
Trump is not a failure in business. It’s absurd. Other than Sam Zell, he’s done as well as any of them from that time period. S&L’s went bust. The Reichmann Brothers from Toronto, where are they? Corus Bank went bankrupt here in Chicago. Jorge Perez who you worship basically had a zero net worth in 2010.
Trump made something like $400 million in cash during the Apprentice, which is something Sam Zell (bad physiognomy) couldn’t accomplish. And then Trump climbs a 3rd pinnacle by defeating 16 primary challengers and the Clinton machine on his first try in politics. Only 1 in 100,000,000 could achieve what Trump has. There is nobody even close in Chicago. Obama isn’t even real Chicago, and he’s not even 1/3 of the man Trump is. None of this was a “con”. Neither was his winning platform of immigration restriction (which the majority of Americans always wants), his antiwar policy, America First trade policy, and equal support for the Founding values and people of this nation, white Americans and their Christian religion (which is still the majority). Now you, and the globalists, and Jews and anti-white racists may hate all of that, but it really just shows that you hate America.
“I’d say Pritzker is doing a fine job, comparatively, for the states with big urban centers.
Also, Illinois has vaccinated more than almost any other state.”
The only ones thinking Fat Fuck is doing a good job are chubby-chasers
Only an idiot or shill would look look at the total numbers. The rates tell a different story.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/map-covid-19-vaccination-tracker-across-u-s-n1252085#embed-20201221-plan-your-shot-map
My family thinks I’m crazy. Lol.
Tell JoeZ we agree with him
“Biden cheated.”
Repeating this does not make it true. Where is your evidence of this?
“They promoted the Antifa riots”
Repeating this does not make it true. Where is your evidence that riots were “Antifa riots” and the Democrats promoted them?
“Trump is not a failure in business. It’s absurd. Other than Sam Zell, he’s done as well as any of them from that time period. S&L’s went bust. The Reichmann Brothers from Toronto, where are they? Corus Bank went bankrupt here in Chicago. Jorge Perez who you worship basically had a zero net worth in 2010.”
I think 6 bankruptcies are evidence that he is a failure in business. And I really don’t care about his net worth.
I provided ample evidence of his cons. You did not respond to the list but you can add Trump University to it.
“Kinda surprised Newsom hasn’t done much besides extend the stay at home order.”
I thought he was busy with holiday parties at French Laundry.
“Repeating this does not make it true. Where is your evidence of this?”
Repeating “where is the evidence” when the evidence is everywhere. See my post above about evidence deniers…
““They promoted the Antifa riots””
Not riots, mostly peaceful protests that made May 31 the deadliest and most destructive day in Chicago’s history.
“I think 6 bankruptcies are evidence that he is a failure in business. And I really don’t care about his net worth.”
You keep repeating fake news. Actually read about the bankruptcies. Are you familiar with Atlantic City? Nearly all the casinos have gone bankrupt.
https://www.thoughtco.com/donald-trump-business-bankruptcies-4152019
“May 31 the deadliest and most destructive day in Chicago’s history”
Hmm…
600+ died? Or was that December 30, 1903?
3+ square miles of the city burned to the ground? Or was that October 1871?
You read like a parody of a moron.
“Kinda surprised Newsom hasn’t done much besides extend the stay at home order.”
I thought he was busy with holiday parties at French Laundry.
He shoots and scores!
“Repeating this does not make it true. Where is your evidence that riots were “Antifa riots” and the Democrats promoted them?”
Who was responsible for the riots/destruction?
Going from stay at home orders and Covid precautions to encouraging mass gatherings for political purposes is what? Hell Mpls looks like a 3rd world country (They’ve at least started removing some of the debris)
“You keep repeating fake news. Actually read about the bankruptcies. Are you familiar with Atlantic City? Nearly all the casinos have gone bankrupt. ”
———————————–
So if trump can smell a good deal when others cannot, why did Trump go into Atlantic City? Were his bone spurs acting up?
So if trump can smell a good deal when others cannot, why did Trump go into Atlantic City?
He liked the ring of Bucktown East?
“He liked the ring of Bucktown East?”
————————-
Okay, I’ll accept that.
“Repeating “where is the evidence” when the evidence is everywhere. See my post above about evidence deniers…”
What evidence is everywhere? I asked for a specific state and allegation. You posted a press release about private donations to election administration. I posted an analysis of those donations. I don’t see evidence everywhere.
“Not riots, mostly peaceful protests that made May 31 the deadliest and most destructive day in Chicago’s history.”
But where is your evidence that these riots were orchestrated by Antifa and that they were promoted by Democrats?
Keep in mind that I have leaned kinda right most of my life but I’m not going to claim the sun is blue just because somebody’s messiah tweets that.
Gary
You are pulling a Sabrina here and moving the goalposts
Since you’ve concluded Antifa wasnt involved, who was responsible?
Do you think city leaders encouraged mass gatherings?
How am I moving the goalposts? As soon as Antifa was brought up I questioned the evidence. Who orchestrates any riot? Often they just happen – especially now with social media. It can be a viral phenomenon. Friends tell friends.
““May 31 the deadliest and most destructive day in Chicago’s history”
Hmm…
600+ died? Or was that December 30, 1903?
3+ square miles of the city burned to the ground? Or was that October 1871?
You read like a parody of a moron.”
You are the most pedantic poster I’ve come across on the internet. Are you like this IRL?
The deadliest day refers to the record numbers of murder and the destruction is from rioting, not a natural disaster or accidental fire caused by a cow.
“How am I moving the goalposts? As soon as Antifa was brought up I questioned the evidence. Who orchestrates any riot? Often they just happen – especially now with social media. It can be a viral phenomenon. Friends tell friends.”
I can see that you, as a middle aged generally conservative leaning man, spend little time in the sewage of Twitter. And that’s OK. But twitter is where all the riot organizing is. They don’t advertise on netflix.
The riots and protests have slowed down since Biden stole the election but antifa is real and active. I won’t link to those criminal twitter pages but they are out there, they are real, they are organized. How else do you think antifa shows up with all those supplies, and those pallets of bricks that mysteriously appeared in alleys over downtown around the time of the riots?
https://twitter.com/WindyCityWxMan/status/1268266817212088320
“The deadliest day refers to the record numbers of murder and the destruction is from rioting”
Oh, I just read what you wrote as plain English. ““May 31 the deadliest and most destructive day in Chicago’s history” seems to mean the day, in Chicago history, when the most Chicagoans died AND the most desctruction was done in Chicago.
I didn’t realize you were typing using the jargon of conspiracy whackjob.
Duly noted!
Are you like this IRL?
“I can see that you, as a middle aged generally conservative leaning man, spend little time in the sewage of Twitter. And that’s OK. But twitter is where all the riot organizing is. They don’t advertise on netflix.
The riots and protests have slowed down since Biden stole the election but antifa is real and active. I won’t link to those criminal twitter pages but they are out there, they are real, they are organized. How else do you think antifa shows up with all those supplies, and those pallets of bricks that mysteriously appeared in alleys over downtown around the time of the riots?”
Don’t believe everything that random internet dudes post. The very popular brick trope has been pretty much proven to be more conspiracy bullshit: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/2020-06-02-nationwide-protests-over-george-floyd-death-live-n1221821/ncrd1222216#blogHeader
I don’t doubt that some people were encouraging other people to riot on twitter and other platforms. That was widely reported. But that doesn’t mean there is some organization behind it. It’s just random people spontaneously connecting. And I would be very interested in seeing your evidence that Antifa exists as a structured organization. Like…who’s in charge? Where do they get their money? Where is their headquarters?
hd a supporter of Proud Boys & QAnon apparently trying to divert attention from the undistractable dumpster fire re dt’s actions posted:
“…The riots and protests have slowed down since Biden stole the election but antifa is real and active…”
I guess I missed the part when Biden instructed antifa to ‘stand down and stand by’? Biden ‘stole the election’ by receiving 7 million+ more popular votes than dt. More importatntly Biden scored a massive landslide victory in the Electoral College, receiving 302 votes to dt’s 232 votes. Isn’t it about time for that door….?
“How am I moving the goalposts? As soon as Antifa was brought up I questioned the evidence”
So are you saying it
a) Wasnt Antifa
b) May Have Been Antifa
c) Was Antifa
I dont think every riot/looting situation was Antifa agitated, but on the flipside I think its foolish to say none.
Is it not surprising that the second these things break out that there’s a substantial portion of the attendees sporting a 3M Full or 1/2 face respirator w/ acid gas cartridges?
Also you’re not responding to the Dem Pol support for the riot/protest – until it was affection the polls
“I guess I missed the part when Biden instructed antifa to ‘stand down and stand by’?”
Does he want to sniff their hair?
“Biden ‘stole the election’ by receiving 7 million+ more popular votes than dt.”
You’re one of those idiots that thinks the Bears should have won yesterday because the Troubadour had more completions that Arog.
I really can’t believe US politics is so terrible these days but I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised. This is the culmination of decades of leftist policy of encouraging people to breed beyond their economic ability to pay for offspring and allowing greater society to pick up the slack. And *surprise* for the leftists they don’t always vote that way!
Trump had the lowest polling rate of any President in modern history during his term it should come as a surprise to no-one that he lost. Was the media biased against him yes but he was definitely responsible for most of the way he was perceived.
He got the SCOTUS people in but that isn’t worth nearly as much as the media makes it out to be in terms of sculpting society. They hardly take any cases and defer a lot more to lower courts.
He had a governing mandate as every POTUS does and can accomplish things via executive order as every POTUS does with that. That was clear it was getting passed to Biden in the wee hours of November 4th. It was clear to anyone who understood math, statistics and had a brain.
He had a legislative mandate for his first two years as well with his party in control of both houses of congress and was able to pass a tax bill that benefited both the working class as well as the very rich at the expense of the upper middle class which I think was great. It also was punitive to high tax & spend states like Illinois which I think is fantastic.
Now with the incoming POTUS he doesn’t yet have a legislative mandate that is pending the outcome of the two runoffs tomorrow but he could indeed be handed one if his party wins both. That will wind up undoing what Trump and the Republicans have been able to substantively do to shape the direction of US society in the years ahead and the Republican party is acting erratic and insane and still beholden the whims of that madman that Trump has revealed himself to be.
The alternative is you hand a bunch of idiots the Democrats control of both houses of congress and these people are very stupid and dangerous. The other day when opening the newer session of congress they ended it with “Amen & Awoman” because the person doing the speaking literally had no conception of what the word amen is or it’s origination and assumed it was a gendered word. These people are orcs and have no conception of our civilization and would destroy it by accident if given the opportunity. So I just hope to God that they win at least one of those two seats in spite of/because of the current POTUS. He certainly seems intent on flushing away the legislative mandate and accomplishments he handed the Republican party if given the opportunity if he himself is on the way out.
JohnnieU’s posted some nonsense:
“…Does he want to sniff their hair?
“Biden ‘stole the election’ by receiving 7 million+ more popular votes than dt.”
You’re one of those idiots that thinks the Bears should have won yesterday because the Troubadour had more completions that Arog.”
It ain’t that complicated ju. You apparently haven’t heard about the Electoral College outcome. I’m one of those idiots who believe only scores matter. Bears only win if they score more points than GB.
After elections administrators count votes & report the score – ie determine who won. Only in dt’s (& hd’s/other R’s) universe does dt’s sociopathetic belief he couldn’t possibly lose to Biden enter into determining who won or lost an election.
“Since you’ve concluded Antifa wasn’t involved, who was responsible?”
——————————
So you get to pick a group out of your hat and then demand that we prove you wrong? Sorry son, that ain’t how either life or logic works.
You want “who was responsible?” I’ll give you two choices: The Proud Boys (various permutations here — false flag operation (pretending to be Antifa) or cowing the media into not reporting the truth — take your pick) OR the Illuminati in conjunction with the P2 Masonic lodge.
It isn’t the John Birch Society’s modus operandi, nor it’s organizational scope, so we can rule them out.
Face facts: The voters didn’t trust Trump with power. They voted him out. Now act like an American and accept the truth.
“So are you saying it
a) Wasnt Antifa
b) May Have Been Antifa
c) Was Antifa”
On a scale of 0 – 10 I’d give it a 1 for likelihood.
“Is it not surprising that the second these things break out that there’s a substantial portion of the attendees sporting a 3M Full or 1/2 face respirator w/ acid gas cartridges?”
Where is your evidence of this?
“Also you’re not responding to the Dem Pol support for the riot/protest – until it was affection the polls”
Not sure what you’re saying here. I can find no polls that show support for riots.
Russ,
Did this ever happen in 2018? https://ktla.com/news/local-news/l-a-county-hospital-officials-race-to-discharge-patients-and-make-room-for-those-with-covid-19-but-cant-keep-up/
LA County EMT just sent out a memo to all ambulances that if they have a patient that likely won’t survive, to not bring them to the hospital.
Wow.
“This is the culmination of decades of leftist policy of encouraging people to breed beyond their economic ability to pay for offspring and allowing greater society to pick up the slack.”
Bob: welfare reform happened in 1996. At least you can get into this century.
“I guess I missed the part when Biden instructed antifa to ‘stand down and stand by’?”
There is no antifa. It’s a concept. That is it. Like white supremacy. Is there a group called “white supremacy” with a leader? No.
But there IS the Klan.
“And I would be very interested in seeing your evidence that Antifa exists as a structured organization. Like…who’s in charge? Where do they get their money? Where is their headquarters?”
Thank you for asking this Gary.
According to the FBI Director there is NO “antifa” organization. It doesn’t exist. It’s a concept.
Was “fascism” an organization? No. That was the Nazis.
“The riots and protests have slowed down since Biden stole the election but antifa is real and active.”
Nope. Has actually never existed as an organized group. It’s an idea.
“The deadliest day refers to the record numbers of murder and the destruction is from rioting, not a natural disaster or accidental fire caused by a cow.”
844 people died in the Eastland disaster. I think that was much more “destructive.”
It was neither a natural disaster or an accidental fire.
Also, the 1968 Democratic Convention protests were horribly destructive. There were around 500 people injured and a lot of businesses damaged.
What we saw happening this year didn’t even come close to some of these other events.
“Tell JoeZ we agree with him”
Stop embarrassing yourself JohnnyU. It’s so sad.
But this also goes to your misogyny that you could never admit that a woman runs this site. But why you would pick the one who shall not be named is beyond me.
“Only an idiot or shill would look look at the total numbers. The rates tell a different story.”
That’s what I did.
Our positivity rate is at 8.3% for the state of Illinois. Texas is at 20%.
I’d rather be in Illinois. Thanks.
Florida is at 14%.
Kansas, Arizona, Tennessee have among the highest number of cases right now. Tennessee has no mandates and is actively encouraging tourists in Nashville. I know people who live there who are terrified. The virus is raging out of control.
Texas continues to have record hospitalizations. It’s going to be really dark there in about a week or two, as I said. Prayers to all those medical professionals and all of our fellow Americans who are struggling.
“Trump made something like $400 million in cash during the Apprentice, which is something Sam Zell (bad physiognomy) couldn’t accomplish.”
Sam Zell is a true billionaire who would never lower himself to be on a stupid reality show. Why do you keep bringing up Sam HH? Why are you obsessed with people who are true real estate developers and truly rich?
Jorge Perez immigrated to America from Argentina and is a true American success story. He was NEVER broke in 2010.
If your guy was so great you wouldn’t need to compare him with anyone.
And, yes, I grant you that Trump’s branding of himself as some master CEO was brilliant. And he used the con to get into the White House. And he used it to make several hundreds of millions of dollars. Good for him for the great branding.
Alas, he has been bleeding the money at both his hotels and his golf courses. He has a huge loan payment due in just a year and no way to pay it. And he’s been bailed out at least twice, once by his father and the second time by his siblings, when he was going broke.
Heck, he couldn’t even pay alimony to Marla Maples without getting it approved through a court because he owed so much money to other people.
Why do Trump supporters keep bringing up Obama? Trump didn’t beat Obama. And he couldn’t beat Obama’s vice president either, it turns out.
It’s over. He’s done. He can go play all the golf he wants to because that’s all he’s done the last 4 years anyway. It’s time for some real leadership and some competence.
The show has been cancelled.
“The market is not hot.”
Depends on your definition of “hot.”
1. More sales than a year ago.
2. More sales than any month in the last 10 years for that month.
3. Record low inventory.
4. Prices rising.
5. Might need bidding wars.
6. Market times collapsing.
How many have we got?
Gary,
In 2011…
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/hospitals-overwhelmed-by-surge-of-flu-cases/article562037/
In 2018… Overwhelmed by flu, some ERs turning away ambulances.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/overwhelmed-by-flu-cases-some-ers-turn-ambulances-away-california/
Let’s try 2014…
Hospitals overwhelmed by flu, asking patients to stay away.
https://www.daytondailynews.com/lifestyles/health/local-hospitals-ask-flu-patients-stay-away/I5jeXotxyNmHmZDIxgGHgI/
https://therealdeal.com/chicago/2020/12/30/from-industrial-windfalls-to-office-market-freefalls-chicagos-biggest-real-estate-stories-of-2020/
Tales of woe and cr8ter eveywhere. Oh Lori and JB you said all the right things but managed to screw it all up! Likely for a generation or more!
Russ,
Those stories are significantly different from what we are experiencing today. One is from Canada. The others are about rerouting ambulances and asking people to go see their primary care physicians. What is happening now is that the EMS folks are being asked to determine if someone has a good chance of dying. If so, let them die at home. That’s a whole new level.
“Face facts: The voters didn’t trust Trump with power. They voted him out. Now act like an American and accept the truth.“
Which voters? The dead ones? The ones who voted 3 or 4 times as staff ran their ballots through many times? The magically votes that appeared in the middle of the night after 6 swing states stopped counting and then reported Biden vote drops giving him the lead?
Gary,
NBC news is not a reliable source for debunking anything. I don’t give them money and I don’t click their links. I’ve turned out legacy media entirely these days.
Crazy that I show you the source – a report directly from the police scanner and you cite leftist nbc news to debunk it.
“ That’s what I did.”
No it’s not
The topic was vaccinations. It’s stupid to talk total #’s Vs rates
“ Stop embarrassing yourself JohnnyU. It’s so sad.
But this also goes to your misogyny that you could never admit that a woman runs this site. But why you would pick the one who shall not be named is beyond me.”
Where did I say that you couldn’t run a simple website?
I figured you and a JoeZ were somehow related or married due to the increase in shilling.
I’m beginning to think you don’t know what that word means
“So you get to pick a group out of your hat and then demand that we prove you wrong? Sorry son, that ain’t how either life or logic works.
You want “who was responsible?” I’ll give you two choices: The Proud Boys (various permutations here — false flag operation (pretending to be Antifa) or cowing the media into not reporting the truth — take your pick) OR the Illuminati in conjunction with the P2 Masonic lodge.”
Where’s your proof?
So now we’ve got a right wing group impersonating an imaginary left wing group. Loosen up the tinfoil hat.
“Face facts: The voters didn’t trust Trump with power. They voted him out. Now act like an American and accept the truth.”
Just because one doesn’t support a senile pederast, doesn’t mean one supports a Trump. I guess it’s simpler for the unintelligent to only have binary choices.
That’s the great thing about the USA! Biden won the EC, will be inaugurated and in 4 years We’ll have another election
“ So are you saying it
a) Wasnt Antifa
b) May Have Been Antifa
c) Was Antifa”
On a scale of 0 – 10 I’d give it a 1 for likelihood.”
You’ll give what a 1?
“Is it not surprising that the second these things break out that there’s a substantial portion of the attendees sporting a 3M Full or 1/2 face respirator w/ acid gas cartridges?”
Where is your evidence of this?
Watching the riots unfold.
Don’t worry, I’ll hit the google
“Also you’re not responding to the Dem Pol support for the riot/protest – until it was affection the polls”
Not sure what you’re saying here. I can find no polls that show support for riots.”
Pol= politician
“Just because one doesn’t support a senile pederast, doesn’t mean one supports a Trump. ”
—————————-
You got even less proof of Biden being a pederast than you do of Biden stealing the election, and you have no proof of the steal.
Face it, even Trump’s lawyers, including Rudy, never said in court that there was actual fraud. Why? Simple: making knowingly false statements (lies) to a judge — state or federal — is a crime.
“You got even less proof of Biden being a pederast than you do of Biden stealing the election, and you have no proof of the steal.”
Considering I never said Biden stole the election, you’d be wrong. But these straw men you and your ilk keep creating are fascinating.
“Face it, even Trump’s lawyers, including Rudy, never said in court that there was actual fraud. Why? Simple: making knowingly false statements (lies) to a judge — state or federal — is a crime.“
Is this your lizard brain acting up?
RIF
https://twitter.com/michael_hendrix/status/1346234223439568896?s=20
HAWT ™
If the income distribution is linear/tipped to higher incomes, that’s not a good thing long term. If it’s tipped to lower income side, Sabrina gets her wish to be rid of the poors and minorities
In T – 15 days, the Trump dynasty ends and Trump and his family become private citizens like all the rest of us.
We should take a Crib Chatter poll on what crime will Trump be convicted of first? I think the $270MM of debt forgiven by Deutsche Bank and the Fortress Capital for the construction of the Trump Tower Chicago bubbles to the top, as I am pretty sure the tax man is still looking for the $110MM of federal and state taxes owed on that shady deal.
Anyone else want to wager a bet?
#lockHIMup
“NBC news is not a reliable source for debunking anything. I don’t give them money and I don’t click their links. I’ve turned out legacy media entirely these days.
Crazy that I show you the source – a report directly from the police scanner and you cite leftist nbc news to debunk it.”
Yes, if you reject all news sources that don’t support your narrative then that explains why you believe what you believe. Your declaring NBC not reliable doesn’t make it true. Neither does declaring random twitter dude “a report directly from the police scanner”. I have no idea what came across the scanner. I have no photos of bricks. Nobody followed up to find out if the bricks existed, when they arrived, who ordered them, who delivered them. That’s what real news organizations like NBC do. Why do I believe the NBC story? Because I saw random photos of bricks all over the Internet from random sources and everyone on the right was peeing in their pants about them. It smacked of propaganda.
“You’ll give what a 1?”
The likelihood that Antifa was behind the riots – i.e. 10%
And no Democratic politician at the national level came out in support of riots. You might find some half wit local politician somewhere but nobody of any stature.
“as I am pretty sure the tax man is still looking for the $110MM of federal and state taxes owed on that shady deal.”
You don’t know that there was a loophole that Hillary helped fix in later years where he was able to take the entire amount of the loss onto his books for tax purposes and it became a giant deferred tax asset.
Because you don’t even know that, that calls your opinion on everything else into question.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/politics/trump-taxes-loophole.html
“And no Democratic politician at the national level came out in support of riots. You might find some half wit local politician somewhere but nobody of any stature.”
If I was as intellectually dishonest as some, I’d argue that anyone that didn’t condemn the riots was infact supporting them. But that line of reasoning is for losers
Keith Ellison MN Ag/Fmr US Rep is a fan of ANTIFA
“You don’t know that there was a loophole that Hillary helped fix in later years where he was able to take the entire amount of the loss onto his books for tax purposes and it became a giant deferred tax asset.”
You can take forgiven debt as a tax *loss*? A “gain” is a loss?
I know that’s not what you think, Bobbo.
I think you just missed/misread what JJ was referring to–the alleged forgiveness of $270m of debt, which constitutes taxable income, on which $110m of income tax (ignoring other possible offsets) would be due.
I express no view on the accuracy of the allegation, as I don’t have enough rumored information.
“Keith Ellison MN Ag/Fmr US Rep is a fan of ANTIFA”
OK, one doofus, who probably fucked up the George Floyd prosecution by announcing an over-charge not supported by the evidence.
Got someone with an actual national profile, who hasn’t demonstrated him/her self to be unserious?
“If the income distribution is linear/tipped to higher incomes, that’s not a good thing long term. If it’s tipped to lower income side, Sabrina gets her wish to be rid of the poors and minorities”
the survey is skewed towards higher incomes, but probably because those are the people that can afford a 5-25k moving cost
and Sabrina is an antifa denier… LOL real shocker there
“Because you don’t even know that, that calls your opinion on everything else into question”
And I am assuming your a CPA and an expert on corporate tax law????
Trump has been involved in shady business dealings his entire life. The only legitimate endeavor that made him money was being cast on the Apprentice, which created this false narrative that he was a successful real estate developer. He is not.
Michael Cohen knows where all the bodies are buried and tax crimes are easy to prosecute. I guess we get to wait and see what happens on Jan 21.
“Got someone with an actual national profile, who hasn’t demonstrated him/her self to be unserious?”
While I agree that he’s a clown, he was Deputy Chair of the DNC (Shitshow that it is). Why would that august group elect someone not serious? /s
His successor (Argue on the seriousness of the individual) wasn’t too big on calling out the riots (Mixed messages and all). Not sure on her feelings for Antifa, though maybe now that she’s married a consultant shes got better eyes on the optics
“And I am assuming your a CPA and an expert on corporate tax law????”
I am, and from what I understand Trump used $1.4 billion in 2008-09 losses, mostly from his casinos, to offset the forgiven debt gains. The issue, apparently, comes down to whether Trump maintained a 5% interest in the Casinos when he “walked away”, abandoning his stake in the casino partnership. I’m sure Trump’s CPAs and corporate tax attorneys think they are in compliance, it comes down to interpretation, but certainly not something that will land Trump in jail.
This tax stuff is a bunch of noise, similar to the Russiagate hoax.
“I understand Trump used $1.4 billion in 2008-09 losses, mostly from his casinos”.
Hmmm. $1.4 billion in casino losses in 2008-2009. $270 million in debt forgiven since 2010. Sounds like a pattern of a real successful business person.
As a Corporate Banker, I would love to see the financial statements he provided Deutsche Bank to land the $640 million construction loan, which he partially personally guaranteed, since no other financial institution would work with Trump Organization except Deutsche Bank.
“Keith Ellison MN Ag/Fmr US Rep is a fan of ANTIFA”
That actually wasn’t what we were discussing. I don’t doubt there are some politicians who think Antifa is a good idea. What we were debating was whether or not any respectable politician supported the riots as you claimed.
“As a Corporate Banker, I would love to see the financial statements he provided Deutsche Bank to land the $640 million construction loan, which he partially personally guaranteed, since no other financial institution would work with Trump Organization except Deutsche Bank.”
Funny story here–Trump has stiffed every major Wall Street bank by defaulting on his personal guarantees _including Deutsche Bank_ and none of the other banks would do business with him. Apparently Deutsche Bank is so compartmentalized and mismanaged they let it slide that he stiffed over another department there some years prior.
I’d recommend Dark Towers: Deutsche Bank, Donald Trump, and an Epic Trail of Destruction by David Enrich.
Deutsche Bank recently canned the people involved with bringing Trump in (Rosemary Vrablic) likely in an attempt to keep their US broker-dealer license from being suspended in the years ahead. Also after WW2 the Brits wanted Deutsche Bank broken up after seeing how it was used to enable the atrocities of the Third Reich but we the US couldn’t be bothered and just wanted to go home.
Here’s to hoping DB gets kicked out of the US at a minimum.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-deutsche-bank-rosemary-vrablic/trumps-longtime-banker-at-deutsche-bank-resigns-idUSKBN28W2CI
Agreed, Bob. DB is a toxic enterprise to the core. Regulators have slapped massive fines on DB and encouraged them to pull out of Russia and other emerging markets for lax money laundering controls for years. Instead, in late 2020, DB execs were contemplating expanding in Russia. They never learn from their mistakes.
The DB + Trump Organization is match made in heaven.
“I am, and from what I understand Trump used $1.4 billion in 2008-09 losses, mostly from his casinos,”
NAH!
The NOLs were from ~20 years before that–late 80s/early 90s. Claimed originally on his 1040 for the 1995 tax year:
https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/trumps-916-million-nols-art-dodge
That actually wasn’t what we were discussing. I don’t doubt there are some politicians who think Antifa is a good idea. What we were debating was whether or not any respectable politician supported the riots as you claimed.
keith was out supporting the riots (handing out water, etc when tear gas was launched)
you could also look at his successor
Q: What’s Antifa stand for?
A: Antifacism or antifascists.
Q: Who was the largest group of antifascists in American history?
A: The soldiers who went to war against Germany et al in WWII.
Seems these two facts keep getting missed in the effort to sling written mud in defense of why Trump lost.
“Instead, in late 2020, DB execs were contemplating expanding in Russia. They never learn from their mistakes.”
Why would they? They get massive annual bonuses regardless of what the shares do. And if you look at the performance of the shares over the years that definitely shows.
DB is a B-school case study of the principal-agent problem and moral hazard. If you can steal from shareholders to enrich yourself with no consequence why wouldn’t you?
“keith was out supporting the riots (handing out water, etc when tear gas was launched)”
I am unable to confirm this.
“Q: What’s Antifa stand for?
A: Antifacism or antifascists.
Q: Who was the largest group of antifascists in American history?
A: The soldiers who went to war against Germany et al in WWII.”
This is stupid to compare the Greatest Generation with idiot-haters like 36-yr. old dead Kenosha antifa Joseph Rosenbaum. The LGBT perverts, pedophiles, misfit Jews, and crazed meth losers that comprise Antifa are akin to Bolsheviks, not freedom fighters in WW2. Today’s Antifa actually SUPPORTS the system and the big government and corporate system. Trump tried to drain the swamp that Antifa defends, lol. They aren’t counter-cultural at all, they help prop it up.
“And no Democratic politician at the national level came out in support of riots.”
The point is sin by omission. They were silent, and that is immoral. The Democrat politicians supported it by not denouncing it. How many times was Trump asked to denounce “white supremacy” by CNN, NBC, Jews, the last of which was Fox’s (((Chris Wallace)))? No Democrat was ever put on the spot once, let alone multiple times, to denounce Antifa which is far worse hate and evil than so-called white supremacy. Biden never denounced it. He’s a sick man, hiring Victoria Nuland today. Why would some Antifa support the system she represents??
“Sam Zell is a true billionaire who would never lower himself to be on a stupid reality show. Why do you keep bringing up Sam HH?”
Because for the umpteenth time, Trump reached the pinnacle of 3 very competitive professions. Nobody else in American history has done it. Nobody else probably could. Trump is a man 1 in 100,000,000. Sam Zell could never have gotten elected POTUS on his first try, he’d do worse than Bloomberg did (1%). Sam Zell couldn’t be a celebrity either, and that’s not so easy to pull off either, how many fail at that dream? Likewise, career politicians like Biden/Obama/Clinton/Kamala never achieved in the private sector. Trump did all 3 and personally, I’d take Trump’s portfolio of real estate over office buildings, mobile home parks, and 350 unit apartment complexes. LMAO!!!
“The LGBT perverts, pedophiles, misfit Jews, and crazed meth losers that comprise Antifa”
How do you know this? Do you have like a membership list? Can you show it to us?
“Today’s Antifa actually SUPPORTS the system and the big government and corporate system.”
Where did you get this information? Is their platform posted somewhere? I’ve always wanted to see it.
“Nobody else in American history has done it.”
Herbert Hoover did. And look how he’s regarded in US history.
Let’s hope that the American public takes another 80 to 100 years before they elect another “businessman” president.
“Sam Zell couldn’t be a celebrity either, and that’s not so easy to pull off either, how many fail at that dream?”
Being a celebrity is a “dream”?
LMFAO.
You’ve really lost it HH.
Why would Sam Zell WANT to be a “celebrity.” A “celebrity” is someone who is well known for being well known. They haven’t actually DONE anything. But, yes, this fits Donald Trump to a tee.
And being a politician is an actual profession. If you do any profession for a lot of years, you usually get pretty good at it. This is why Biden is competent and will get things done in the White House. He has plenty of experience. He’s seen it all. And he has great political skills.
Trump has NO political skills. And it’s too bad. If he did, he could have been among the most popular, and powerful, presidents since FDR.
And his lack of political skills is obvious even post-election. Someone with real skills, even with the loss, would already be positioning themselves for what happens after the White House. Take a look at how Nixon got himself back in the game. But, again, he was a professional politician with real political skills.
The only part that matters from the Trump administration is the policy resulting from the 2017 tax bill and the SALT cap limitation. Republicans need to find a way to keep that SALT cap in no matter what if they lose control of the Senate and it looks like they will.
Upper class Democrats unlike Republicans get a free pass from the media from voting their wallet–they should not be able to get away with it.
“ Is their platform posted somewhere? I’ve always wanted to see it.”
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSpO0wSXcAMPvjw.jpg:large
And my google-fu sucks, Ellison did a good scrub or memory is bad, can’t find a link to KE being at the protest/riots.
“ This is why Biden is competent and will get things done in the White House. He has plenty of experience. He’s seen it all. And he has great political skills.”
The “Big” guy likes his Fweedom
JohnnyU,
That’s a history book. Does not contain the platform they adopted at their most recent convention.
JU: You may have been bleeding the two Ellisons together:
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/500479-keith-ellison-responds-to-sons-antifa-tweet-a-comment-about-the
“Trump has NO political skills.”
Is that how he beat 16 primary challengers and Hillary Clinton? With “no skills”? LOL. His political skills are 100x better than Bloomberg’s who skills are probably 50x better than the goblin Sam Zell’s.
Trump’s rally crowds exhibit no political skill? Biden had to cheat to win with the support of Big Tech censorship, perverts, and the rest of the people of darkness, and the whole country knows it. He has no support. He did not win the vote without cheating.
Being a celebrity is a “dream”?
Yes, it is. Are you that old that you forgot what young people dream about? Every girl wants to be another Charlie Demelio. Every kid thinks he’s going to be a pro athlete. Eventually reality sets in and people realize they won’t be a pro, or marry a billionaire, marry a super-model, or be a movie star. But Trump did all these things, and before he became a Republican, women used to throw themselves at him and Schumer used to beg for his financial contributions.
Politicians are losers, diabolical narcissists, who enter politics because it’s know as Hollywood for ugly people. The kind of people, starting in high school who knew they weren’t going to be popular based on virtue or beauty, so sought the other narcissist channel left open.
Only Trump cared about public service and trying to right the ship. The rest of them: Biden/Clinton/Romney, are the class president types in it for themselves and their corrupt class of elites.
“Biden had to cheat to win with the support of Big Tech censorship, perverts, and the rest of the people of darkness, and the whole country knows it. He has no support. He did not win the vote without cheating.”
Where is your evidence of cheating? How did perverts help Biden? I think it’s clear that more than half the country does not believe that Biden cheated so right there you’re lying.
Leave it to hh to post a joke “…Only Trump cared about public service and trying to right the ship….”.
Imo hh/hd share very a severe case of TIS (trump idolatry syndrome).
Who is Charlie Demelio?
The love child of JoeZ and Sabrina.
Currently buying up undervalued real estate in Bronzeville
“Currently buying up undervalued real estate in Bronzeville”
Coming soon: “South Bucktown Estates”
SoBu Estates?
God damn thats HAWT ™
Take all my money!
I do like the idea of theme weeks. Since there are 77 defined communities, might I suggest featuring listings by communities? If a community is mostly cheap and boring (e.g., South side bungalow belt), then do two communities in the week.
Since the communities have defined boundaries, there’ll be no dispute as to classification, and Sabrina won’t be limited to places near mass transit (IIRC) — just use the MLS with a community overlay.
hh/hd/JohnnyU: I reviewed this afternoon’s news re the deadly rioting in DC but I couldn’t spot any involvement by antifa or greenpeace or whatever other boogiemen you three along with Fox/OAN/Newsmax/breitbart/8chan/Qanon/et al love to cite & blame. It was dt who urged his supporters to march to the Capitol, telling them to “get rid of the weak Congress people” and saying, “get the weak ones get out; this is the time for strength.” So will any of you condemn the perpetrators of today’s violent riots or do you support sedition?
Southbound,
Believe it or not some of the disciples are claiming the rioters were actually Antifa posing as disciples. I shit you not. Once you abandon all logic and reason anything is possible.
“Believe it or not some of the disciples are claiming the rioters were actually Antifa posing as disciples. I shit you not. Once you abandon all logic and reason anything is possible.”
Yep. You knew this was inevitable. They have to try and claim it really wasn’t their guys. It was “antifa” people who dressed up in MAGA hats and did all the violence.
Too bad it’s easy to disprove because they have the names and addresses of all of the main guys caught on video and in pictures sitting in the speaker’s chair in the Senate and in Pelosi’s office. They’ve been Trump followers for years.
52 have been arrested, so far.
The terrorists were executing their plan, which was to start a revolution. Dozens of them said this as they exited the Capitol and talked with reporters. One said he’d be back tomorrow with his musket to try again.
This is what happens once you let the deniers continue to deny. They are all living in an alternative universe.
Biden won. Easily. By 7 million votes.
Also, now that the Democrats have taken back the Senate, it’s the first time since 1932 that an incumbent has lost the White House and both chambers of Congress.
Of course, that was Herbert Hoover.
“Trump’s rally crowds exhibit no political skill?”
Huh?
Oprah has gone around the country recently promoting WW and sells out stadiums. Does she have “political skill”?
Lol.
A good politician, HH, actually ADDs support as he goes along. A good politician is a Republican who wins time after time in a blue state.
A good politician is someone who knows how to track to the center after winning, in order to build a coalition, to get his or her agenda through.
The whole point of being a politician is to get things done, is it not? To make laws and policy.
Trump cannot do any of it. Ever.
He’s good at branding, as I admit. But branding isn’t politics. And that has been the tragedy. He doesn’t care about policy. He doesn’t care about anything other than himself and how big his crowds are.
He needs to be removed from office after what happened today. Put Pence in for the next 14 days.
Seditious conspiracy has up to a 20 year penalty. Everyone arrested within the capitol building is likely going to prison for something.
Whether they are dumb enough to give interviews with law enforcement especially without lawyers present so as they can ascertain motive as to whether it’s seditious conspiracy or not remains to be seen but I’m guessing they are that dumb.
Yes if you stormed the capitol building in an attempt to delay or interfere with the certification/counting of electoral votes that is seditious conspiracy.
Criminals are really stupid which is why they will talk with law enforcement and admit their motivation, putting them away for up to 20 years instead of a lesser charge that carries substantially less time.
Terrorists & Sedition
The 2 cat ladies have voiced their legal opinion. LOL
This will get memory holed, just like the Dems contesting the EC results when the GOP won. The intellectual dishonesty is on full display (excluding Sabrina here As she’s just dishonest)
And for the feeble minded, the guard should have been called up and ready prior to the breach.
“And for the feeble minded, the guard should have been called up and ready prior to the breach.”
For the record, Mike Pence facilitated the National Guard and worked with the Pentagon to deploy them, not Trump.
“And for the feeble minded, the guard should have been called up and ready prior to the breach.”
———————–
I think you will find that the mayor of DC requested the guard during the weekend before.
“This will get memory holed, just like the Dems contesting the EC results when the GOP won. ”
—————————–
Actually, the only Democrat contest was of 1 state after the 2004 election, Kerry had already conceded, the senator making the objection (Boxer-Calif., IIRC) stated beforehand that she was not contesting the fact that the Shrub won the election, and Kerry went on record beforehand as not wanting the objection to be made.
Not equivalent by any stretch of the imagination.
fuck rioters and fuck the idolatry of these pathetic narcissist politicians, people on both sides are extremely guilty of that shit if this thread is any example
“fuck rioters and fuck the idolatry of these pathetic narcissist politicians, people on both sides are extremely guilty of that shit if this thread is any example”
Chew on this — The person with the nuclear codes has been deemed to dangerous to have a Twitter account.
Mark Zuckerberg just said FB will restrict Trump’s FB and IG accounts for the next two weeks and perhaps “indefinitely”.
The biggest narcissist in the world will be out of our lives in 13 days (hopefully sooner).
“both sides”
For America and for Trump?
“Chew on this — The person with the nuclear codes has been deemed to dangerous to have a Twitter account.
Mark Zuckerberg just said FB will restrict Trump’s FB and IG accounts for the next two weeks and perhaps “indefinitely”.”
Jack Dorsey & Mark Zuckerberg are now the arbiters of truth?
Those 2 grandstading cunts are doing this to protect their business from the dems launching a bunch of investigations
“Jack Dorsey & Mark Zuckerberg are now the arbiters of truth? ”
It’s not about truth. It’s about giving someone a megaphone to yell “fire” in a crowded theater.
“Actually, the only Democrat contest was of 1 state after the 2004 election, Kerry had already conceded, the senator making the objection (Boxer-Calif., IIRC) stated beforehand that she was not contesting the fact that the Shrub won the election, and Kerry went on record beforehand as not wanting the objection to be made.
Not equivalent by any stretch of the imagination.”
I already posted the link. You are incoreect. I Suggest your read it and it is equivalent.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/06/politics/electoral-college-vote-count-objections/index.html
“It’s not about truth. It’s about giving someone a megaphone to yell “fire” in a crowded theater”
Yes Gary it is. I’m not a fan of the message, but your hyperbole is incorrect.
Tell me where the line is. I dont want those 2 cunts (And they are cunts – especially Jack) dictating what is allowable. Especially as they have near monopoly power wrt their speech platforms
Thats why they’re getting in line , so their business dont get broken up
You guys all suck. First, southbound and Sabrina are generally right, this was not an Antifa riot because if it was the damage would’ve been more severe and fires would’ve been burning everywhere. That said, I don’t doubt that Antifa had some infiltrators there. But not enough to pin the blame on them.
This was not an “insurrection” or a “riot”, it was a mob that got out of hand primarily that’s what happens sometimes when a large group of people are angry. There should have been much more security around the building, but the WashDC mayor called them to stand down.
Funny, how the “Defund the Police” Leftist-morons are proven wrong. We need police in urban areas. All the Democrats are now calling for prosecutions!! Lol. Shouldn’t we just follow Kim Foxx leftist paradigm and let them all go with a wrist slap? Most are first time offenders, for sure.
It was also not unpatriotic. It’s ridiculous to call 1 million people carrying American flags unpatriotic. 1 million Leftists who burn flags, now that’s unpatriotic.
It was not a riot, because the protesters (who got out of hand) did NOT destroy the building or attempt to. the vast majority of the protestors did not destroy and there are videos where people are saying “don’t destroy”. Recall that in MN, the Left literally burned a police precinct to the ground, in Portland they attacked a Federal Building for 100 days straight. The destruction of the Left far outweighs what the patriots did yesterday — by far. Not even a comparison. The Leftist hate & destruction cost billions, and affected many more citizens’ lives.
“the deadly rioting in DC”
Furthermore, southbound you anti-white hate-filled moron, it was the COPS who shot the protestor, not the other way around. She’s a martyr just like George Floyd. ACAB! Defund the police! Cops passively stood around for months dealing with Antifa and BLM, but yesterday the cops killed a 27 yr. old woman at close range. So, let’s hope that cop likewise gets arrested and denied bail just like the 4 in MN. Right? Right, leftists?? Fair.
The facts remain that no evidentiary hearing or forum has taken place with regards to the Fraud. So don’t even try and say “it’s been debunked”. The case hasn’t even been laid out to be seen/heard. We live in a country where the POTUS cannot get a day in court? And we complain about China not being free?
The POTUS of the USA gets censored, but China is the totalitarian state? LOL.
In keeping with real estate…
@ Properties canned an agent who was at rally in DC…
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/residential-real-estate/properties-fires-agent-who-was-capitol-during-trump-riot?utm_source=breaking-news&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20210107&utm_content=hero-headline
“It’s ridiculous to call 1 million people carrying American flags unpatriotic.”
What simpleminded bs.
Does this qualify as a Riot and Sedition? Or does a pink pussy hat give one diplomatic immunity?
The hypocrisy/Rx are astounding
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/10/protests-brett-kavanaugh-supreme-court-confirmation/
“JonnyU”. Your sooooo angry. Perhaps you should consider therapy.
“Or does a pink pussy hat give one diplomatic immunity?”
Apparently not, as the article said: 164 were arrested–and there was apparently no property damage, nor any need to evacuate the Capitol.
And I don’t see any reference to pipe bombs, or Capitol Police being hospitalized in connection with that.
How many arrests yesterday?
Just posted my December update. Pretty interesting. Looks like 2020 will be down less than 0.8% in sales from 2019 and January should be strong. December sales up 19.3%. Inventory is low of course, but even condo inventory is not that high. And stuff is selling fast. http://www.chicagonow.com/getting-real/2021/01/chicago-real-estate-market-update-2020-ends-with-a-burst/
Maybe the market is hot 🙂
“@ Properties canned an agent who was at rally in DC…”
getting fired for your political beliefs, welcome to China
“How many arrests yesterday?“
70
4 dead (Inc’l 1 shot)
1 officer was killed – sounds like he was hit with a FE
“ getting fired for your political beliefs, welcome to China”
It’s kinda freaky what a little bit of power is doing to these folks
““Or does a pink pussy hat give one diplomatic immunity?”
Apparently not, as the article said: 164 were arrested–and there was apparently no property damage, nor any need to evacuate the Capitol.
And I don’t see any reference to pipe bombs, or Capitol Police being hospitalized in connection with that.
How many arrests yesterday?”
death toll at five now.
latest is a capital police officer
hh posted his usual lies, bs & wadda bout-isms:
“…It was not a riot, because the protesters (who got out of hand) did NOT destroy the building or attempt to…..
“the deadly rioting in DC”
Furthermore… you anti-white hate-filled moron, it was the COPS who shot the protestor.. She’s a martyr just like George Floyd….Cops passively stood around for months dealing with Antifa and BLM, but yesterday the cops killed a 27 yr. old woman at close range.”
BS. Domestic right-wing terrorists initiated a riotous insurrection aiming to illegally assist a coup aiming to overthrow our elected government. They took action at the explicit direction of djt. Terrorists (some armed) broke into our Capitol Building by destroying doors and windows after battling past the police. They are very fortunate only one invader was shot & killed by the police who were defending our elected officials & the seat of our government against an invading mob. While I’m sorry she died, imo she brought it on herself when she joined an angry armed mob in an illegal violent invasion of the Capitol Bldg aimed at causing chaos – she’s no martyr imo. George Floyd was killed while in the custody of 4 armed policemen. If instead either he or his companion was armed or posed physical danger to police or civilians he couldn’t be viewed as a martyr. Cops and national guard did not passively stand around when dealing w BLM or antifa – one minor example is when they gassed peaceful protesters in DC so djt could get a photo op.
“…Fox News, an outlet the president prefers while often criticizing others, said, “It was a jarring scene as police in the nation’s capital forcefully cleared young men and women gathered legally in a public park on a sunny evening, all of it on live television.”
70
4 dead (Inc’l 1 shot)
1 officer was killed – sounds like he was hit with a FE
She. But not dead yet. Apparently, her family is traveling and she is being kept on life support until they arrive.
50 capitol police officers were injured. Several critically.
“I already posted the link. You are incoreect. I Suggest your read it and it is equivalent.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/06/politics/electoral-college-vote-count-objections/index.html”
=================================
I suggest you reread it. There was no concerted effort to overturn the election, just interruptions, like the article said. You are wrong
“December sales up 19.3%. Inventory is low of course, but even condo inventory is not that high. And stuff is selling fast.”
Wow. That’s an incredible surge for December. I’ve never seen winter market conditions like this.
Our really mild weather is also helping.
“Maybe the market is hot.”
Ha ha.
Who knows. Right Gary?
I’m telling you, the inventory is LOW and that is really driving things. And some properties I see come on the market are going under contract before I can even crib about them. They are going under contract within 3 to 4 days.
“It’s ridiculous to call 1 million people carrying American flags unpatriotic.”
What about the ones carrying confederate flags? Or the ones who replaced the American flag on the side of the Capitol building with the Trump flag?
Is all of that “patriotic” too?
“That said, I don’t doubt that Antifa had some infiltrators there.”
Arrest them. Arrest them all. We have the pictures. We know their names. Several who were there have been fired from their jobs already. If they’re “antifa” they will be arrested like everyone else.
But the ring leaders in the chambers and the offices were white supremacist MAGAs. They are very well known. No way to spin it.
The WSJ has called for Trump to resign.
“Jack Dorsey & Mark Zuckerberg are now the arbiters of truth?”
They will ban those who incite violence. Doesn’t matter who you are.
It’s their business. Their rules.
“getting fired for your political beliefs, welcome to China”
Not exactly. She admitted publicly to “storming the capitol” and there are photos of her on the capitol steps, close to the doors.
“The facts remain that no evidentiary hearing or forum has taken place with regards to the Fraud.”
Please enlighten us with ONE example of significant fraud and provide your evidence for such. Just to be clear do not give us a laundry list of potential fraud with no links to evidence.
“Tell me where the line is. I dont want those 2 cunts (And they are cunts – especially Jack) dictating what is allowable. Especially as they have near monopoly power wrt their speech platforms”
It is indeed a difficult line to draw. And I actually don’t want them determining what is true or not true. However, if someone is inciting violence you have to put an end to it and nobody but them can decide when that line has been crossed.
“Terrorists & Sedition”
They went into the Capitol with the goals of:
1. Killing Congressmen and Senators
2. Stopping the certification of the electoral college so that Biden doesn’t “steal the vote.”
They came out saying this was a revolution directly to the cameras.
Yeah- I think that qualifies.
If this was ISIS or Al Qaeda, we would be in code red from the Department of Homeland Security. The airport would have been shut down so that the terrorists could not fly. Bridges would have been blocked to keep them in the city.
Christopher Wray warned Congress just a few months ago that domestic terrorism was the biggest threat facing the country.
And here we are.
And it’s not over yet. 3 more MAGA rallies are planned in DC before the inauguration. On chatboards they are already talking about their next plans.
Our dishonest MSM is trying to conflate non-violent peaceful actors such as Cruz & Hawley with those who resorted to incitement such as Trump, Giuliani, Gohmert & Brooks. In so doing it makes it less likely those engaging in incitement will be held to account for their actions.
Because after all the MSM doesn’t care so much about what happened & preventing it from ever happening again but instead to promote a political agenda.
“Our dishonest MSM is trying to conflate non-violent peaceful actors such as Cruz & Hawley with those who resorted to incitement such as Trump, Giuliani, Gohmert & Brooks.”
Nope. You don’t get to say Cruz and Hawley aren’t as much to blame.
If Hawley had followed McConnell’s warning, when he urged Senators to NOT object, there wouldn’t have been a legitimacy given to the “fraud” claims. Sure, you would still have had Trump out there saying his lies. That’s a given. But Hawley’s “objection” meant a 2 hour debate. The House can not object without the Senator objecting.
And then Cruz had to pile on which only stirred the pot further. He was out there giving speeches and tv interviews in the days leading up to it. Hawley was giving the fist pump to the crowd.
They should both resign.
They are both duly elected and doing their job to the best of their perception and abilities. It doesn’t matter about McConnell’s warning McConnell only gave a warning because he is concerned about the affect on his party not the constitution.
They were within their constitutionally defined roles and responsibilities in objecting. There wasn’t anything violent or seditious about it.
In 2005 Barabara Boxer & Stephanie Jones did similarly to George W Bush’s re-election and all I remember from the media at the time was crickets. Almost as if it’s not the motion itself that is so troubling but the letter next to the those seeking the motion? Is that right?
“After the 2004 United States presidential election, Senator Barbara Boxer of California joined Representative Stephanie Tubbs Jones of Ohio in filing a congressional objection to the certification of Ohio’s Electoral College votes due to alleged irregularities including disqualification of provisional ballots, alleged misallocation of voting machines, and disproportionally long waits in poor and predominantly African-American communities. The Senate voted the objection down 1–74; the House voted the objection down 31–267.”
And don’t forget Mo Brooks. He was out there telling people to take down names and kick ass.
Gary–yes I listed Brooks as one of the four. These four had explicit language for incitement that would make it easy to prove to an impartial jury. There were other inciters such as Don Jr but from what I saw their rhetoric did not go to the level of direct, specific incitement and was vague and mixed in with legitimate legal avenues to pursue.
Gohmert, Brooks & Trump are now trying to distance themselves from their rhetoric after the fact but that’s not how incitement works.
The Trump team was also trying to push state legislatures to change their allocation methodology for selecting electors after the election itself which is also not how that works.
Trump is like a football team who tries to go for the 2-point conversion misses it then demands from the referee they are allowed to also make an attempt at the extra point kick.
“They were within their constitutionally defined roles and responsibilities in objecting.”
Nope. They are not excused. Both have clerked at the Supreme Court. They knew EXACTLY what they were doing. EXACTLY.
They knew the rally was planned. They knew that the crowd would be on edge. And they had NO evidence to object. NONE.
Nope. They are not excused.
They gave legitimacy to the gas lighting. Again, Ted was on national television giving interviews that fanned the flames.
Shameful. All of it.
They should resign. NOT for bringing the objection. But for inciting the terrorists.
“ I suggest you reread it. There was no concerted effort to overturn the election, just interruptions, like the article said. You are wrong”
Congrats you clicked on the link and read the headline, it would help if you read the rest of the words in the article. I’ll give you a head start –
“object to the certificate from Alabama.
“The electors were not lawfully certified, especially given the confirmed and illegal activities engaged by the government of Russia,” McGovern said.“
“ when Washington’s Rep. Pramila Jayapal objected to Georgia’s vote certificate.}
An so on
So once again you are wrong
“It is indeed a difficult line to draw. And I actually don’t want them determining what is true or not true. However, if someone is inciting violence you have to put an end to it and nobody but them can decide when that line has been crossed.”
So you’re comfortable with having them determine what is inciting violence?
And if you’re going to give them that power, you’d agree that they are a constraint on speech due to the size of their platform and should be broken up.
I’d bet all of Elon’s money that they’d run away from that faster than Sabrina from the truth
“1. Killing Congressmen and Senators”
Ha. Your stupidity never ceases to be entertaining
2. Stopping the certification of the electoral college so that Biden doesn’t “steal the vote.”
Where does stopping the Vote for a SCOTUS justice fit?
“So you’re comfortable with having them determine what is inciting violence? ”
———————————-
On their platforms, yes. They’re private citizens, not governments. Don’t like it? go somewhere else. Nobody put a gun to your head and told you to join facebook.
“So you’re comfortable with having them determine what is inciting violence?”
Not comfortable with it but there is no alternative. You cannot have a free for all.
“And if you’re going to give them that power, you’d agree that they are a constraint on speech due to the size of their platform and should be broken up.”
It’s not a power we give them. It’s a power they have. And if you can make the case that they are engaged in anti-competitive behavior then you can make the case they should be broken up.
“Not comfortable with it but there is no alternative. You cannot have a free for all.”
I think we differ on which is the greater threat
“It’s not a power we give them. It’s a power they have. And if you can make the case that they are engaged in anti-competitive behavior then you can make the case they should be broken up.”
A little from column A and a little form column B, but most of that power is due to stifling/buying out competition. The reality is Google, FB & Twitter control the results for searchers, what shows up in our news feeds and what is deemed “News”. They are a much greater threat than 1000 MAGA folks stealing a dias.
“doing their job to the best of their perception and abilities.”
Running to be the 2024 Trump Party nominee for president isn’t actually Hawley’s job.
Ted Cruz has been a professional asshole since (at least) his freshman year at Princeton, so you have a point with him–he is doing his best job at being a dick to everyone and everything.
“stealing a dias”
It was a lectern. See, eg, https://kailashafoundation.org/2018/03/24/lectern-podium-and-dias/
If they managed to steal a dais, that would’ve been something.
“On their platforms, yes. They’re private citizens, not governments. Don’t like it? go somewhere else. Nobody put a gun to your head and told you to join facebook”
Oh what a coincidence
https://twitter.com/jmpalmieri/status/1347064818944118784
(Noted right winger)
“Oh what a coincidence
https://twitter.com/jmpalmieri/status/1347064818944118784
(Noted right winger)”
————————-
And your point is? That the Democrats forced you to join Facebook?
“And your point is? That the Democrats forced you to join Facebook?”
Censoring timing
Try and keep up
“Censoring timing
Try and keep up”
————————-
Private censoring doesn’t count, so stop whining about it. If the Dems can’t find anti-competitive behavior (like buying potential threats, a legitimate concern) then they can piss up a rope.
“If the Dems can’t find anti-competitive behavior (like buying potential threats, a legitimate concern) then they can piss up a rope.”
Why would they? They’ve already gotten the concessions they wanted. They dont want the lucre spigot turned off
“Domestic right-wing terrorists initiated a riotous insurrection aiming to illegally assist a coup aiming to overthrow our elected government. ”
Listen to this idiotic rhetoric. This is Fake News level drivel, and indicative of why Fake News media like NYT/CNN is not taken seriously by anyone, not even women anymore.
“They went into the Capitol with the goals of:
1. Killing Congressmen and Senators”
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bullshit.
Again, if they were terrorists (which they aren’t), they would’ve taken hostages and burned the place down etc. Hardly any significant damage was done to the building (some windows and doors mostly). Certainly, nothing on the level of Leftist damage done across our nation earlier last year. Not even close. Not comparable to Leftist hate & damage to our country.
The protestors didn’t arrive with a “terrorist plan”, it was a mob that got unruly and carried away, with no policing to stop the bad apples. Simple as that. (It kinda looked like a Michigan State U. crowd after an NCAA championship actually) There was no “terrorist” threat, and you liars can say it 100x times but everyone knows that’s rhetorical propaganda and hate speech.
“Christopher Wray warned Congress just a few months ago that domestic terrorism was the biggest threat facing the country.”
Laughable. Once again, Leftists are/were 100x worse and Christopher Wray didn’t do squat about Antifa/BLM riots that caused 1000x more damage in dollar terms. You’d have to be an idiot to believe the same set of “arrest” standards will be applied to patriot protestors vs. Antifa/BLM (catch-and-release).
“What about the ones carrying confederate flags?”
How many? handful. The lying jewsmedia plasters that one guy’s photo everywhere though. Are you so stupid that you believe that propaganda BS works and convinces people? Did you see in Northbrook at a Trump rally in October that Jews were hoisting Israeli flags and Trump flags along with “Jews for Trump” signs? So how is that any different from a Confederate flag? Jews are “terrorists” too? OK, got it.
“The WSJ has called for Trump to resign.”
So what? They always hated Trump and America First. They hate Bernie Sanders’ populism too. WSJ is globalist. Duh.
“If Hawley had followed McConnell’s warning, when he urged Senators to NOT object, there wouldn’t have been a legitimacy given to the “fraud” claims.”
??? Once again, the fraud claims have not been heard formally. The whole point is 1/2 of the country believes they are legitimate, the question is to what degree. Not debunked, the POTUS of the USA never got his day in court. There is a theory the cops were undermanned specifically because the rally would allow Congress the excuse to not hear the fraud claims debated. So, sure enough, the rally got out of hand and they used that as an excuse to cancel the debate and the only time an honest airing of the fraud claims could be made to the American people.
“Private censoring doesn’t count, so stop whining about it.”
So if the executive at Peoples Gas doesn’t like your politics he can shut off your gas? Ban you from their platform? Or put you on a timeout for 2 weeks in winter?
If you don’t like it, start your own gas company! Lol. The Internet is like a utility now. I’m no constitutional scholar, but does a private company CEO get to abolish your 1st Amendment rights as an American? That wouldn’t seem right.
“Once again, the fraud claims have not been heard formally.”
Once again I invite you to make your most credible case that there was fraud. Pick one episode. Give it your best shot. Interesting that you remain silent on this.
Gary: Josh Hawley was going to make the convincing case regarding PA, which their courts politically refused to hear. But he didn’t get the chance since the debate was cancelled over the protest got admittedly out-of-hand, coincidentally right during the time the debate was to take place. Nonetheless, the debate should’ve been heard and it wasn’t to the pleasure of Democrats, liars, RINOs, swamp types, and immoral people. Never was heard publicly, and that’s a FACT in the history book.
PS Did you see that the Jews’ censorship is getting worse (than China’) now?
Simon & Schuster decided to drop the publication of a forthcoming book by Missouri Sen. Josh Hawley.
Sen. Hawley’s book, “The Tyranny of Big Tech,” had been scheduled to go on sale this June. The Left is going to try and paint 73 million Trump voters as suspiciously as Muslims were after 9/11. It’s not going to work and it will create more anger. The Left just literally hates the American people.
“Not exactly. She admitted publicly to “storming the capitol” and there are photos of her on the capitol steps, close to the doors.”
so what? what part of her employment contract says you can’t do that?
seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen… wonder if they would have fired her if she stormed the capitol in Madison, WI 10 years ago too? Oh wait, nobody gave a flying fuck about that
” Not debunked, the POTUS of the USA never got his day in court.”
————————–
Did Trump sue in his own name? As a private citizen, he gets no more consideration than you or me. If he sued as president, then the Justice Department would have represented him.
Sing and dance all you want,but not only did the Trump lawsuits fail procedurally, but even if you looked at the merits of the allegations (fraud must be pleaded specifically, and with good reason), the suits failed. Sing and dance all you want, but no one has countered my simple fact from before: Trump’s lawyers NEVER in open court alleged that there had been fraud in the voting. They alleged “opportunities” and “inability” to verify etc. etc., but NO lawyer said straight to a judge that there had been fraud. Why? Statements to a court without evidence, especially false ones, will bring sanctions on a lawyer, including possible penal sanctions and almost certainly suspension or disbarment.
So stop lying: It’s been thoroughly debunked — Trump got his day in court. I only got one one question: How’s it feel to want?
Nope. Never heard the cases. Dismissed prior in other ways. HD the lawyer explained how earlier.
PA Supreme Court punted. So did the SCOTUS. The suits were never heard formally, anywhere. Third world type stuff, with a Third World corrupt media too.
Josh Hawley didn’t get his chance either.
Biden cheated. The Democrats are a “By Any Means Necessary” party and their leaders have no morals or honesty.
Real men and women understand it. Real men are virtuous and honest: https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/whitlock-ignoring-the-concerns-of-trump-supporters-will-destroy-america
“So if the executive at Peoples Gas doesn’t like your politics he can shut off your gas? Ban you from their platform? Or put you on a timeout for 2 weeks in winter?
If you don’t like it, start your own gas company! Lol. The Internet is like a utility now. I’m no constitutional scholar, but does a private company CEO get to abolish your 1st Amendment rights as an American? That wouldn’t seem right.”
—————————-
This is new: An “alleged” conservative wanting to abolish the distinction between government and private enterprise. Sound more like the Ocasia-Cortes “Squad” Democrat idiocy than conservative principals. That seems right, you liberal bomb-thrower, you.
As for the gas company cutting me off: If I was using gas or gas distribution to spread a dangerous message, it would make sense to cut me off. Since you and I both know that my politics have nothing to do with my use of gas, electric, water, or any other utility (more on that below), then there’s not basis for cutting me off for my politics. What your statement does show is the false equivalency you are grasping for: A complete disregard for relevant facts, including the fact that Trump told his supporters to “march on the capitol.” The relationship between yelling “Fire!” and crowded theaters is well known.
Finally, your amateurish shift from specific platforms (facebook, twitter, whatever) to “the internet” is not unnoticed, and you really do need to work on your logic and your attempts to segue from one viewpoint to another needs work. Facebook does not cut you off from the internet. Don’t believe me? Just ask 8Chan or Parler or whatever those alternatives are. Ditto Twitter. I absolutely defy you to show us a case where ANYONE was thrown off the “internet” by Facebook, Twitter, Apple, Microsoft, Intel, AMR, the Illuminati, Nancy Pelosi, AOC, Lightfoot, the Commandant of the Marine Corps (he be praised), the Pope, OR EVEN TRUMP — cut you, me, or anyone else off from the internet in any way, shape, form, or manner.
“Nope. Never heard the cases. Dismissed prior in other ways. HD the lawyer explained how earlier.”
———————-
Ignoring the other side’s arguments doesn’t make the arguments go away. If POTUS sued, the justice Department would have been his lawyer. There weren’t any such cases. If Trump sued in his own name (did he? dunno) then he carries no more weight than you or I (that ol’ debbil “all are equal before the law”).
Stop evading the following fact, and give us an explicit “True” or “False:” NO LAWYER IN ANY LAWSUIT TOLD A JUDGE IN EITHER PLEADINGS OR IN OPEN COURT THAT FRAUDLENT VOTES HAD BEEN CAST. I’ll make it easy for you — allegations of “opportunities” or “inabilities” or such don’t count. Allegations of “suitcases” being wheeled in don’t count — especially after the film clip was show to have been edited deceptively at Rudy’s direction.
“Gary: Josh Hawley was going to make the convincing case regarding PA, which their courts politically refused to hear.”
But you yourself believe there was fraud so please share with us the evidence that brought you to this conclusion. I can hardly wait.
“PS Did you see that the Jews’ censorship is getting worse (than China’) now?
Simon & Schuster decided to drop the publication of a forthcoming book by Missouri Sen. Josh Hawley.”
What are “the Jews” censoring and how? What does Simon & Schuster have to do with the Jews?
“Josh Hawley didn’t get his chance either.”
—————————-
How so? Don’t leave us hanging. Sounds like his date laughed at him after the prom.
“wonder if they would have fired her if she stormed the capitol in Madison, WI 10 years ago too? Oh wait, nobody gave a flying fuck about that”
———————-
irst facts first, Sonies: Did she storm the Wisconsin capitol — or any other capitol — ten years ago? Same employer (after you answer the first question)?
“Josh Hawley was going to make the convincing case regarding PA, which their courts politically refused to hear. ”
——————————-
“Their” courts “politically” refused to hear? Republican party judges — nominated under both Republican and Democratic administrations, refused to hear the cases.
As for Hawley’s “convincing” case — funny how he never offered his “convincing” evidence into any law case or appeal, and never offered it to the public. Why? Because it was the same old whining and supposition and speculation of tin-foil hat conservatives.
Oh, an aside to Sonies — employment for non-union employees in the US is at will. I was more than once reminded that I could be fired because my bosses didn’t like my necktie. EACH TIME i told them — literally — “Fuck off, now deal with the merits of [the situation.]” Guess what? I was never fired.
“What does Simon & Schuster have to do with the Jews?”
Self-evident. Duh. That’s like asking what does Tim Cock (gay CEO of Apple) have to do with homosexuality.
If you don’t like private censorship, go create your own Apple Computer or Amazon.com!
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/cancel-crusade-reignites-reddit-bans-pro-trump-forum-facebook-unpersons-walk-away
BREAKING: Apple is currently threatening to ban Parler — the free speech alternative to Twitter — unless the service enacts draconian censorship policies demanded by left-wing Big Tech oligarchs, according to two sources familiar with Apple’s threats.
And people wonder why the Left is so despised and not respected. Look at their immoral conduct. They’re literally ruining the USA and making it a laughing stock, just like the state of Illinois and Chicago too. Compare “China’s” teachers and schools to the CTU and CPS.
““Their” courts “politically” refused to hear? Republican party judges — nominated under both Republican and Democratic administrations, refused to hear the cases.”
That’s what I said. Refused to hear the cases. So don’t cry when 1/2 of the nation thinks Biden cheated and they were not shown they were wrong. Notice how nobody accuses the Republicans of cheating? Because it’s the Leftists and liberals who are the scumbags nobody likes or can trust. Immoral.
“Stop evading the following fact, and give us an explicit “True” or “False:” NO LAWYER IN ANY LAWSUIT TOLD A JUDGE IN EITHER PLEADINGS OR IN OPEN COURT THAT FRAUDLENT VOTES HAD BEEN CAST.”
——————————–
Posted before 4:00PM. It is now after 5:00PM.
Crickets chirpin’
“does a private company CEO get to abolish your 1st Amendment rights as an American? ”
Are you actually this ignorant? Seriously?
Or are you pulling a Lyin’ Ted and arguing in bad faith?
“Notice how nobody accuses the Republicans of cheating? ”
—————————-
The largest (in terms of votes) fraud case was the Republican operative in 2016 who admitted altering dozens of votes in a North Carolina election. The Repub party wanted a delay in the new election in order to nominate a new candidate because their old candidate had been tainted — the judge let them have the delay.
“Notice how nobody accuses the Republicans of cheating?”
WTF? Never heard the word “collusion”??
Are you actually this ignorant? Seriously?
Or are you pulling a Lyin’ Ted and arguing in bad faith?
[note: I’m not taking a position on the facts re “collusion”, merely the fact that many people did, indeed, “accuse[] the Republicans of cheating”]
“Self-evident. Duh. That’s like asking what does Tim Cock (gay CEO of Apple) have to do with homosexuality.”
No, it’s not self evident. I’m not clear on what you believe. That the 15 MM Jews of the world get together and decide to censor stuff through Simon & Schuster? How do they exert this control? Who is in charge of deciding what gets censored? What other religions have such a secret Cabal? Are they behind Twitter banning Trump? Help us understand your carefully cultivated beliefs.
“seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen… wonder if they would have fired her if she stormed the capitol in Madison, WI 10 years ago too?”
Agents are 1099 contractors and their agreements with their brokerages offer a lot of flexibility. If an agent is embarrassing the brokerage they probably have the right to terminate the arrangement. I’m not even sure I would use the word “fire”.
“ complete disregard for relevant facts, including the fact that Trump told his supporters to “march on the capitol.” The relationship between yelling “Fire!” and crowded theaters is well known.”
Let me know when the standard is applied uniformly
“Finally, your amateurish shift from specific platforms (facebook, twitter, whatever) to “the internet” is not unnoticed, and you really do need to work on your logic and your attempts to segue from one viewpoint to another needs work. Facebook does not cut you off from the internet. Don’t believe me? Just ask 8Chan or Parler or whatever those alternatives are. Ditto Twitter. I absolutely defy you to show us a case where ANYONE was thrown off the “internet” by Facebook, Twitter, Apple, Microsoft, Intel, AMR, the Illuminati, Nancy Pelosi, AOC, Lightfoot, the Commandant of the Marine Corps (he be praised), the Pope, OR EVEN TRUMP — cut you, me, or anyone else off from the internet in any way, shape, form, or manner.“
Google I believe has deplatformed Parler and I believe Apple is heading that way. We’re getting pretty damn close to the .gov dictating where you can speak
In an ironic twist, Apple wants Parler to be responsible things it doesn’t want to be held liable for.
So add Tim Cook to the Cunt list
“Google I believe has deplatformed Parler and I believe Apple is heading that way. We’re getting pretty damn close to the .gov dictating where you can speak”
————————-
Only in your fervid imagination. Google removed Parler from it’s play store. You can download Parler without the Google Play Store. With Apple you can’t do that, as Apple has hard wired (essentially) things to go through its app store. Don’t like it? Don’t use Apple. Problem solved.
Only in your fervid imagination. Google removed Parler from it’s play store. You can download Parler without the Google Play Store. With Apple you can’t do that, as Apple has hard wired (essentially) things to go through its app store. Don’t like it? Don’t use Apple. Problem solved.
“I believe” isn’t a statement of fact. But another A+ job with reading comprehension
So Now all one has to do is build their own Apple, Google, Twitter, Amazon & FB.
If you are concerned with the current power grab, you’re a fool
Should be not concerned
Posting on Twitter or Facebook is not a First Amendment-protected right.
If you start a newspaper, for instance, not everyone can just publish their articles in it or sue for being denied their free speech. The publisher owns and decides what gets published. Same thing applies to social media platforms.
Only the government can violate First Amendment-protected free speech. Inciting people to riot is not free speech, by the way.
Is George Soros sending checks to all the terrorists like he did with the million woman march 4 years ago?
If not him, who IS?
Because the belief 4 years ago was that people cannot gather of their own volition. Someone must be paying them to be there. So who is paying the terrorists?
“I’m no constitutional scholar, but does a private company CEO get to abolish your 1st Amendment rights as an American?”
Thank goodness. Can you imagine if HH was a constitutional scholar or even a lawyer? Lol.
There is no “1st amendment rights” with a corporation. If you walk into a restaurant and start espousing white supremacy ideology, the restaurant can throw you out onto the street. You have no “right” to be there speaking.
The first amendment only applies to the government.
“Again, if they were terrorists (which they aren’t), they would’ve taken hostages and burned the place down etc.”
Just because you are bad terrorists doesn’t make you any less of a terrorist.
Just because the 1993 World Trade Center bombers failed, didn’t mean they weren’t attempting to bring the building down.
They were chanting “hang Mike Pence” as they stormed. They set up a hanging/execution location out front. They beat a capitol police office to death with the American flag.
It’s clear what we are dealing with here.
And it’s shocking that the airports weren’t closed immediately, even while the event was happening. But we have an incompetent president and administration.
More will come out, especially after he leaves office, and those at the Pentagon and elsewhere feel free to talk because he no longer has his finger on the nuclear codes.
Hawley and Cruz need to resign. If not, the Senate should expel them. They gave legitimacy to the lies that the election was “stolen.” It wasn’t. There is no evidence of fraud at all.
President Biden was correct that the lies are similar to the ones the Nazis told to make it seem like the bombings were worse than they were.
Sadly, the threats by the MAGAs continue. They are radicalized. It’s no different than after 9/11 with Al Qaeda. It will help that the FBI is arresting dozens of them but there are 2 more dates for the revolution coming up. Let’s hope they fail like they did on Jan 6.
The President needs to resign, but he will not. He will slink away. But at least the country doesn’t have to hear from him on social media.
“Where does stopping the Vote for a SCOTUS justice fit?”
Nowhere. There is nothing in the constitution that mandates that a justice be sat a week before a national election. Mitch McConnell left a Supreme Court seat open for nearly a year. No procedural reason to fill it.
But there is procedure about what is to happen with the electoral college.
That’s why the lies that were told were so horrific.
The MAGAs were lied to that Pence could actually DO something at the certification. He could not. Unless he, too, became a traitor. Same with Hawley and Cruz. They could “object” but it was never going to stop it (and didn’t.)
But it kept the lie going that the election was somehow going to be “overturned.”
It was not.
There is NOTHING that can be compared with trying to overthrow an election. That is what happened on Jan 6. They are traitors and terrorists. Unless you believe they should have succeeded JohnnyU. Then they are revolutionaries. Like Sam Adams.
“Is George Soros sending checks to all the terrorists like he did with the million woman march 4 years ago? ”
Yep, and what about the piles of bricks that suddenly appeared all around the capitol? Some homeless guy told me the Fascists had them delivered.
“1. Killing Congressmen and Senators”
“Ha. Your stupidity never ceases to be entertaining”
JohnnyU: I think it’s pretty clear, now, that this was the intent. I forgive your comment because it was made on Jan 8 before even more evidence of the attack came out.
We are lucky it wasn’t much, much worse. Extremely lucky.
“Yep, and what about the piles of bricks that suddenly appeared all around the capitol?”
The bricks AND the pipe bombs Gary. Lol.
Flippers ARE moving in on the South Side where prices allow them to do so.
Here’s a cute brick bungalow that was bought in 2018 for $75,000, remodeled, and is now under contract at $325,000 in Chatham.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8047-S-Indiana-Ave-Chicago-IL-60619/4018084_zpid/
“So Now all one has to do is build their own Apple, Google, Twitter, Amazon & FB.
If you are concerned with the current power grab, you’re a fool”
————————-
No need to build your own, just use find and use the alternatives. Why do you think I use linux for most of my computing and web surfing? I’ll make things easy for you: “Fedora.”
‘ Some homeless guy told me the Fascists had them delivered.”
—————————–
He told me it was the Illuminati who had the bricks delivered, Gary, therefore you must be lying.
“ JohnnyU: I think it’s pretty clear, now, that this was the intent. I forgive your comment because it was made on Jan 8 before even more evidence of the attack came out.
We are lucky it wasn’t much, much worse. Extremely lucky.”
Not nearly as bad as Nov 7 1983.
“ Posting on Twitter or Facebook is not a First Amendment-protected right.
If you start a newspaper, for instance, not everyone can just publish their articles in it or sue for being denied their free speech. The publisher owns and decides what gets published. Same thing applies to social media platforms.
Only the government can violate First Amendment-protected free speech. Inciting people to riot is not free speech, by the way.”
I’d recommend reading some of Genevieve Lakier, she has some (IMO) points
“Not nearly as bad as Nov 7 1983.”
Excuse me?
They diffused two active bombs at both the RNC and DNC (unclear why those didn’t go off but maybe they were meant to be a distraction to move the police there) and they took into possession at least one van with even more bombs.
Like I said to HH, just because the terrorists didn’t succeed because of luck, or stupidity, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a serious attack. Same with the Nashville bombing that was just 2 weeks ago.
Tim McVeigh wasn’t supposed to blow up the Murrah Federal Building. It was going to be the courthouse but when he arrived he found that his truck wouldn’t fit with the height restrictions in the underground garage. Had to change the plan.
How much of this plan was ultimately “changed?”
Probably a lot because we know that they are planning a second round on Jan 17 and Jan 20.
“
Excuse me?
They diffused two active bombs at both the RNC and DNC (unclear why those didn’t go off but maybe they were meant to be a distraction to move the police there) and they took into possession at least one van with even more bombs.”
Bullshit. If you had ant intellectual honesty (which you don’t), you’d admit you lied
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/05/03/us-history-first-women-terrorist-group-191037
“ Like I said to HH, just because the terrorists didn’t succeed because of luck, or stupidity, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a serious attack. Same with the Nashville bombing that was just 2 weeks ago.”
It wasn’t serious, whinging about it isn’t going to change that fact. If they were set on violence the results would have been completely different
“ Probably a lot because we know that they are planning a second round on Jan 17 and Jan 20.”
Because you say so?
“getting pretty damn close to the .gov dictating where you can speak”
Uh, heard of “time, place, manner” w/r/t 1A rights?
Yes? Then I have to question your motives in writing the quoted language.
No? Then perhaps you should read up before getting wound up.
Re TPM
Not going to bother with time
Place – Is the Internet a public good? If you say no, that’s reasonable however, I don’t think there’s a case where Google/Alphabet, FB, Twitter & Apple (to a lesser extent) shouldn’t be broken up. If there’s no monopoly power, Parler should be able to be back online in a very short time period. If you say yes, skip to below.
Manner – If you believe that it’s a public good, are the the standards enforced uniformly. One would need Sabrina levels of delusion to state that the standards have been implemented uniformly
Additionally the .gov comment was relative to FB, et al all getting religion at the same time, while looking for political favors from those now in power
“the .gov comment was relative to FB []”
Zuck is 100% a cuck for whoever is “in charge”. He’d be a great propaganda minister for any despot, and then suddenly for the junta that deposes him, and then the Maoist revolution that follows the junta. He probably could have shown sufficient fealty and utility to Pol Pot to survive. Zuck sucks.
“Is the Internet a public good?”
“the Internet” or “amazon’s servers” or “Google’s search results” or “Apple’s app store”? One of them is a public good. As the others make use of a public good, they certain are amenable to regulation–like cattle-grazing or oil-drilling on public lands, or broadcast TV or other users of the radio spectrum–but that hasn’t been popular before (and they spend a ton on lobbying against it), so there hasn’t been much regulation of them.
Want to require [AMZN/GOOG/AAPL] to do XXX if they are going to make money off the public good that is the internet? Go ahead and get a law passed–the EU certainly manages to do it enough. California, too. But it’s pretty tough for the deregulation party to call for regulating business.
“the standards have been implemented uniformly”
Are the folks who have been “discriminated against” a protected class under any cognizable theory? Does your proposed protected class get Clarence Thomas’s vote? If no protected class, where’s the constitutional issue? If not a constitutional issue, pass a damn statute.
Sheryl Sandberg is Zucks twin in that regard
“the Internet” or “amazon’s servers” or “Google’s search results” or “Apple’s app store”? One of them is a public good. As the others make use of a public good, they certain are amenable to regulation–like cattle-grazing or oil-drilling on public lands, or broadcast TV or other users of the radio spectrum–but that hasn’t been popular before (and they spend a ton on lobbying against it), so there hasn’t been much regulation of them.
All the above, tho servers and the shit GoDaddy is pulling are probably at the top. Agreed with you wrt their lobbying efforts (Revolving door)
“Want to require [AMZN/GOOG/AAPL] to do XXX if they are going to make money off the public good that is the internet? Go ahead and get a law passed–the EU certainly manages to do it enough. California, too. But it’s pretty tough for the deregulation party to call for regulating business.”
I believe the issue is monopoly (No or limited recourse) Vs regulation in regards to access. (Searches and FB algo’s are a separate discussion)
“Are the folks who have been “discriminated against” a protected class under any cognizable theory? Does your proposed protected class get Clarence Thomas’s vote? If no protected class, where’s the constitutional issue? If not a constitutional issue, pass a damn statute.”
As a whole, no. And it would be a slam dunk if they were.
The monopolistic positions wrt AWS/FB/et al do not require one do be a protected class (AFAIK)
Stop being lazy.
Fedora.
Examine the web. Solutions are out there for every paranoid brain.
The old adage of: fast, cheap, good — chose 2, applies here. You want the convenience of facebook or whomever (that’s “fast”) take their strictures.
Want to whine that not having facebook or Apple or Google means you can’t have a widespread audience? Well, guess what? If, after a few months of alternate platforms and no audience, maybe you’ll wise up — your message is not popular and has no traction, even among the tin-foil hat brigade.
So what changed in general, I hear you say? Simple: Zuckerberg, Bezos, Gates (Gate’s successors to whatever generation we’re at now), Jobs (and Cook and whomever we have after them), and — assumed that the American people were intelligent enough and self-disciplined enough not to commit violent acts because some dolt said to do so. Remember, “fighting words” was always in the context of an immediate speaker and immediate speech.
Trump put paid to that ideal, didn’t he?
Maybe that ideal still exists where people are debating with their social-position equals, but we are entitled to hold presidents to a higher standard. After all, they sought the position. So when Trump asks for a “wild” gathering, and THEN says “march” on Congress due to the fact that the “landslide election” is being “stolen” — then maybe, just maybe, the platform guardians you decry get to take refuge in John Maynard Keynes apocryphal quotation: “Why the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, Sir?”
“I don’t think there’s a case where Google/Alphabet, FB, Twitter & Apple (to a lesser extent) shouldn’t be broken up.”
How do you “break up” Twitter?
You cannot.
And “breaking up” Facebook doesn’t solve any of the issues you all are complaining about on this blog. Instagram will continue to do what it’s doing. Facebook the same. “Breaking” them up from the parent does little to protect the consumer other than on privacy concerns.
Instagram has over a billion users. Other sites have to figure out a way to compete.
TikTok, Snap and Pinterest all do their own thing and are successful.
Lots of options for the consumer in terms of social media.
In the last few years, YouTube has really cracked down on the far right users and people posting things like murders. Those users have gone to other platforms. The NYTimes had a whole article about the site the terrorists were using to livestream the storming of the Capitol. It had 150,000 watchers at one point during the coup.
“Bullshit. If you had ant intellectual honesty (which you don’t), you’d admit you lied”
What are you even talking about JohnnyU? Lied about what? That the terrorists put 2 bombs, one at the RNC and one at the DNC and the police believe they were used as a distraction to get police to go to those locations, away from the Capitol building. Why not set them off? Why simply plant them?
From all reporting, they WERE live bombs and could have been used.
Was it just a breakdown in the plan? Something always goes wrong but what are the odds BOTH would not go off?
Nashville wasn’t that serious? LMFAO. 41 buildings damaged. The only reason hundreds didn’t die is that the guy, for whatever reason, wanted to warn people.
Why???
What kind of terrorist warns his victims?
He had a soul after all?
He told people he was going to go down in history. But, again, 2 weeks later no one is even talking about it and doesn’t even know his name.
And yes, JohnnyU, there are several more attacks planned- and have been planned all along. This has been openly talked about on the Internet for months specifically on Jan 17 and 20.
They have nice tee-shirts printed up for the Million Militia March that is scheduled for Jan 20. Facebook took down their webpage, however.
Wake up.
The FBI has had to warn that there is the possibility of violence in 50 states.
Can you even imagine if we got hit on 9/11 and then a week later the FBI put out a warning that there could be more attacks in 50 cities from known intelligence?
And yet, the federal government has not done one single press conference providing information to the American public about what is going on. The attorneys have talked about who they are charging but nothing from the FBI or the Capitol Police.
The incompetence of this administration.
As if it isn’t bad enough that 4,000 people a day are dying from Covid.
“ Stop being lazy.”
Not lazy, just don’t care that much
“ So what changed in general, I hear you say? Simple: Zuckerberg, Bezos, Gates (Gate’s successors to whatever generation we’re at now), Jobs (and Cook and whomever we have after them), and — assumed that the American people were intelligent enough and self-disciplined enough not to commit violent acts because some dolt said to do so.”
Zuck & Google is bullshit. FB & YouTube recs feed off this. They feed into the clickbait
“What are you even talking about JohnnyU? Lied about what? That the terrorists put 2 bombs, one at the RNC and one at the DNC and the police believe they were used as a distraction to get police to go to those locations, away from the Capitol building. Why not set them off? Why simply plant them?”
Here’s what you lied about
“They diffused two active bombs at both the RNC and DNC (unclear why those didn’t go off but maybe they were meant to be a distraction to move the police there) and they took into possession at least one van with even more bombs.”
The bomb went off near Sen Byrd (D-KKK) office
Keep trying to rewrite history. Why you always resort to lying, doubling down on your stupidity is beyond me
I feel sorry for any family you might have if you’re this way in real life.
“Zuckerberg…assumed that the American people were intelligent enough and self-disciplined enough not to commit violent acts because some dolt said to do so.”
You’re wrong about Zuck. He’s a craven toady, saying and doing anything that helps him add another “really cool” billion to his pile.
See, eg, https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-facebook-nazi-metal-ads-20190221-story.html
“The bomb went off near Sen Byrd (D-KKK) office”
?? Cite??
Both as to the bomb going off, and the relation to Byrd’s one-time senate office.
Or was there a bomb in WV? Where every third building is named after Byrd.
US Senate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_United_States_Senate_bombing#:~:text=The%201983%20U.S.%20Senate%20bombing%20was%20a%20bomb,inaccessibility%20of%20certain%20parts%20of%20the%20Senate%20Building.
“note: I’m not taking a position on the facts re “collusion”, merely the fact that many people did, indeed, “accuse[] the Republicans of cheating”
I must have missed that. Gee. stfu. Didn’t hear CNN, Biden, Schumer or Antifa, DePaul professors, or white-GZ wine-guzzling yoga femdrunks saying that.
“That the 15 MM Jews of the world get together and decide to censor stuff through Simon & Schuster? How do they exert this control?”
Why do Jews accuse there of being a link between Trump and 74 million “white supremacists”? Can’t have it both ways Gary. If you exculpate Jews, and try and randomize their collective, you have to exculpate everyone, every time in the same way. A MAGA person shouldn’t be banned, that would be like banning an individual Jew for the crimes of their collective.
“Like I said to HH, just because the terrorists didn’t succeed because of luck, or stupidity, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a serious attack.”
Bullshit. A guy stealing a podium and grinning like an idiot in a photo is NOT equivalent to ISIS deaths or illegal Mossad attacks and murders by Israel etc. The whole attempt to try and pin the “terrorist” label on patriotic Americans is so far-fetched that even GZ white women aren’t falling for it. And that’s a low threshold of intelligence. You should be ashamed to try and pass that propaganda off. It’s ludicrous. Any so-called “terrorist” threats you hear are lies, Hoax Crimes, false flags, and the FBI in our nation is sadly no longer honest.
“The NYTimes had a whole article about the site the terrorists were using to livestream the storming of the Capitol.”
The Wisconsin state capitol was occupied in completely, for one week, by Leftists a decade ago. Much more hate and destruction occurred. Nobody was called “a terrorist” and the Right didn’t punish or arrest them, doxx them, or anything. This just shows how utterly vindictive and hate-filled the Left is. Losers in life. Revenge of the Nerds gone to to unAmerican extremism. You see how much bottled up hate the Left and Jews really have. It’s on display. Schumer is a perfect avatar for this milieu. He literally cannot hide his hate. It’s also etched into his satanic-looking face and countenance. “everyone by 50 has the face they deserve” LOL. Right.
“US Senate”
Ah. Thanks.
I’d stopped paying attention to that part of the exchange, so missed the context.
“Didn’t hear CNN, Biden, Schumer or Antifa, DePaul professors, or white-GZ wine-guzzling yoga femdrunks saying [Trump campaign ‘cheated’ in 2016]”
You really are a self-parody of a moran [sic] running an account out of a troll farm somewhere.
Have fun storming the Capitol, Hof!
“The monopolistic positions wrt AWS/FB/et al do not require one do be a protected class (AFAIK)”
But neither is that a Constitutional issue. Has ZERO to do with 1A. Nada.
If Federal (or state) law *required* a monopoly, that would be a different story.
AWS has outcompeted the other cloud providers–I thought that the Rs were the party who love winners in capitalism. Guess not really.
But neither is that a Constitutional issue. Has ZERO to do with 1A. Nada.
What Turley writes encompasses my layperson view and I wont hold his being a cub fan against him
https://jonathanturley.org/2021/01/11/parler-shutdown-in-latest-attack-on-free-speech/
“AWS has outcompeted the other cloud providers–I thought that the Rs were the party who love winners in capitalism. Guess not really.”
They’re for whomever writes the biggest check
A textbook would be that are as long as there’s no “Dumping” or collusion
“You really are a self-parody of a moran [sic] running an account out of a troll farm somewhere.”
I always wondered how he squared Sheldon Adleson being Trumps biggest supporter
“Bullshit. A guy stealing a podium and grinning like an idiot in a photo is NOT equivalent to ISIS deaths or illegal Mossad attacks and murders by Israel etc. The whole attempt to try and pin the “terrorist” label on patriotic Americans is so far-fetched that even GZ white women aren’t falling for it. ”
———————————–
First of all, the guy knowingly took part in a violent action intended to disrupt the function of government for political purposes. That makes him an insurrectionist.
Secondly, “patriotic” people have a basis in fact when they oppose the government, and, GIVEN OUR BELIEF IN THE RULE OF LAW, do not resort to violence on mere self-referencial justification. No matter how much you or I “believe” an election was stolen or that so-and-so “should” have won, patriots accept that their candidate lost, and don’t resort to discredited fantasies to the contrary.
In short, YOU do not get to force the other guy to play whack-a-mole. Sing and dance all you want, but there were NO allegations in pro-Trump pleadings, or in court arguments, alleging actual voter fraud.
The people who charged into Congress may have believed with all of their hearts and all of their souls that they were patriots and that they were doing the Lord’s work. They were, and are wrong. They tried to undermine the rule of law with force of arms. THAT is un-American. The people invading the capitol are violent insurrectionists. That shades into terrorist, as any Russian Decembrist will attest.
Personally, I don’t believe that the horde were terrorists, but I can certainly see the argument. As for the guy carrying out the podium — looks to me like he was trying to bolster and instigate others to oppose violently lawful authority. Sing and dance all you want, but labeling him a “terrorist” is not outside teh pale of reasonable thinking.
“First of all, the guy knowingly took part in a violent action intended to disrupt the function of government for political purposes. That makes him an insurrectionist.”
Is this the new standard? And is there a difference between an insurrectionist and terrorist?
So the folks at the Columbus statue, Mpls 3rd precinct, etc are now insurrectionists?
The Pink hat crowd is now going to be on no fly lists. (Cant be too careful)
You’ve set an awfully low bar
“What Turley writes encompasses my layperson view”
He’s drawing a not particularly fine distinction between “Free Speech” and “1A Protected Speech”. I’m okay with most of what he says there, but then it gets muddied by folks who are blind (willful or otherwise) to the pretty large gap between the two. And also the absolutely crazies and/or trolls commenting below don’t exactly burnish the message.
And then you have those who know better, but willfully conflate the two concepts–like Hawley–claiming that Simon & Schuster dropping him is an assault on the First Amendment, and making himself look a fool, when he could easily approach it on moral/ethical free speech grounds–except that he’s really a “freedom for me, but not for thee” sort–same as most of the morans [sic].
“And then you have those who know better, but willfully conflate the two concepts–like Hawley–claiming that Simon & Schuster dropping him is an assault on the First Amendment, and making himself look a fool, when he could easily approach it on moral/ethical free speech grounds–except that he’s really a “freedom for me, but not for thee” sort–same as most of the morans [sic].”
Hawley might have set the record for early presidential nom. favorite to no chance.
“So the folks at the Columbus statue, Mpls 3rd precinct, etc are now insurrectionists? ”
————————————
Were they trying to prevent government functioning in order to achieve a political purpose?
“They tried to undermine the rule of law with force of arms. THAT is un-American. The people invading the capitol are violent insurrectionists.”
Dude, calm down. Listen to yourself, and then see how ridiculous you are:
https://ktla.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2021/01/guy.jpg
Leftists and anti-white pricks have no sense of humor! That pic is funny. Not terrorism or “armed insurrection”.
“Why do Jews accuse there of being a link between Trump and 74 million “white supremacists”? Can’t have it both ways Gary. If you exculpate Jews, and try and randomize their collective, you have to exculpate everyone, every time in the same way. A MAGA person shouldn’t be banned, that would be like banning an individual Jew for the crimes of their collective.”
I’m not trying to have it both ways. I don’t believe that all Trump supporters are white supremacists. I know many who are not. But since you know that too then you should also know better than to view “the Jews” as some collective.
I agree that a Trump supporter should not be banned but a Trump supporter that perpetrates lies that have lead to a violent disruption of democracy can be dropped and was. The publisher does not have to support such an individual.
“ Were they trying to prevent government functioning in order to achieve a political purpose?”
Go back and answer the original, it wasn’t a particularly difficult question. Not like asking for the boundaries of Bucktown
“ I agree that a XXX supporter should not be banned but a XXX supporter that perpetrates lies that have lead to a violent disruption of democracy can be dropped and was. The publisher does not have to support such an individual.”
I don’t necessarily disagree but I’ve seen this platitude quite a bit recently. To me it’s meaningless as “violent” and “disruption’ and “lies” arent defined. I don’t trust politicians enough to give them the benefit of the doubt to uniformly utilize the Pornography definition to determine the above.
Seeing the current reaction from the left only reinforces that. They are really channeling their inner authoritarian streak
“Go back and answer the original, it wasn’t a particularly difficult question. Not like asking for the boundaries of Bucktown”
———————————–
Very well, the answer is “No,” on the grounds they were not trying to prevent government functioning in order to achieve a political purpose. The Trump supporters were trying to do so, and are therefore insurrectionists.
Helmethofer,
One other thing…book contracts have morals clauses that allow a publisher to pull a book in the case that the author engages in some kind of embarrassing or illegal behavior. Apparently it’s not that unusual for them to exercise that clause. I would think you would like that. You know…in case someone turns out to be a “pervert”.
“Very well, the answer is “No,” on the grounds they were not trying to prevent government functioning in order to achieve a political purpose. The Trump supporters were trying to do so, and are therefore insurrectionists”
“First of all, the individuals knowingly took part in a violent action intended to destroy a police station (disrupt the function of government for political purpose)s. That makes them insurrectionist.”
There is zero consistency between these 2 statements, unless your of the opinion that police forces arent a valid government function
“There is zero consistency between these 2 statements, unless your of the opinion that police forces arent a valid government function”
Gotta say–using “disrupt a government function” to distinguish is not a really winning issue. It’s too broad a construct, and, were it to be adopted, would allow whoever is ‘in charge’ to call virtually anyone an insurrectionist. Ignoring a police officer? Insurrectionist! Taking too long in the bathroom at the library? Insurrectionist!!
I’m not even making a slippery slope argument–“disrupt a government function” is a loser.
“Gotta say–using “disrupt a government function” to distinguish is not a really winning issue. It’s too broad a construct, and, were it to be adopted, would allow whoever is ‘in charge’ to call virtually anyone an insurrectionist. Ignoring a police officer? Insurrectionist! Taking too long in the bathroom at the library? Insurrectionist!!
I’m not even making a slippery slope argument–“disrupt a government function” is a loser.”
Its cover for I can move the line where ever I want for political expediency
Its kinda the same with the “I believe in Science” claptrap coming from some liberal arts or soft science idiot. They wouldnt know science or scientific method if it bit them on the ass.
Too many morons throwing out platitudes not knowing wtf they talking about – Sabrina and Hof are the most obvious example here. LARPing their way thru life
anon (tfo) is right. Good analysis that exposes the dishonesty in the narrative that the scumbag Left is trying to pull off.
First, there was never a plan to disrupt a government fucntion. People in the USA are so stupid, they will listen to anything some judeo-journalist liar tells them.
Trump wanted Josh Hawley and others in Congress to objection to the electoral certification lawfully and procedurally, and discuss the fraud evidence that the courts refused to examine formally. So, Trump called in a rally so that the voters’ interests could be demonstrated outside the proceedings inside. If you review the tape or transcript of Trump’s speech, at no time did he “incite” anything violent. What the protestors did actually hurt Trump because the fraud hearings were interrupted, which is NOT what Trump wanted. Duh.
Maybe they did open the doors. Maybe they did deliberately reduce the police presence. But, the LEFT got what they wanted, which was yet another silencing of the fraud allegations.
Second, nobody committed any serious crimes, except 2 people: The still unidentified cop who murdered an unarmed white woman, and the fire extinguisher protestor. The rest were minor crimes. committed in pursuit of a peaceful protest. We have legal precedent, due to BLM and Antifa riots over the summer, that you’re legally allowed to break any law in pursuit of a peaceful protest.
Lastly, the cop who murdered Ashli Babbit at point-blank range, in worse fashion than George Floyd arrest, must be black, because if he was white, his name would be revealed, he’d fired, arrested, no bail, and charged with a felony. Right?
At least George Floyd had the opportunity to accept arrest. Ashli Babbit was treated far worse, she was cut down with a bullet with no miranda rights or anything. She’s a martyr.
“anon (tfo) is right.”
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu…dge
I take it all back!
““First of all, the individuals knowingly took part in a violent action intended to destroy a police station (disrupt the function of government for political purpose)s. That makes them insurrectionist.””
————————-
Which thread did this come from? I don’t see it in this one.
And was destroying the police station done for a political purpose? If it was done for a “social” purpose, then no, not insurrectionist.
“Maybe they did open the doors. Maybe they did deliberately reduce the police presence. But, the LEFT got what they wanted, which was yet another silencing of the fraud allegations.”
—————————
That’s a lie. The objections were heard and discussed when the session resumed.
“Which thread did this come from? I don’t see it in this one.”
They were your words Slightly modified but id doesnt change the meaning/intent) lol
Here they are again – “First of all, the guy knowingly took part in a violent action intended to disrupt the function of government for political purposes.”
“And was destroying the police station done for a political purpose? If it was done for a “social” purpose, then no, not insurrectionist.”
Is that a distinction without a difference? You’re trying to pick fly shit out of pepper to justify your statement.
In the Mpls 3rd Precinct example its a bit of both.
But I’m now deciding that the Capitol Riots served a social purpose, so everythings ok now. LOL
“Is that a distinction without a difference? You’re trying to pick fly shit out of pepper to justify your statement. ”
——————-
Big distinction, big difference. The King Assassination/Rodney King/George Floyd//Columbus statute riots weren’t an attempt to impose a political solution on the government. They were not insurrection, sedition, what have you.
The Capitol mob didn’t have a social purpose, it had a political purpose: overturn a lawful election and disregard the will of the people.
“Big distinction, big difference. The King Assassination/Rodney King/George Floyd//Columbus statute riots weren’t an attempt to impose a political solution on the government. They were not insurrection, sedition, what have you.”
No, its really not.
I’m going to take the low hanging fruit first. Defunding the police is not a political solution?
“The Capitol mob didn’t have a social purpose, it had a political purpose: overturn a lawful election and disregard the will of the people.”
In your opinion it didnt,
200 people in the capitol would be able to overturn an election to the point where there would have been zero recourse to granting DJT another 4 years? LOFL
Do you realize how insane and divorced from reality that argument sounds? I would expect something like that from Sabrina as she gets ready for the night of long knives.
“If it was done for a “social” purpose, then no, not insurrectionist.”
There’s no point in dealing with a biased and ridiculous person like this. He knows he’s making dishonest arguments, just like the Democrats and their media arm do too. Americans see thru this.
But those persons who knowingly participate in this kind of dishonesty show the decline of society that progressivism has produced. We no longer have a Western Civ civilized morality. The Left’s creed is now “by any means necessary”, not One nation under God. The Left’s new creed allows them to lie in their own “consciences”. Their ends can justify any type of lies and immoral hate conduct incl. ruining another human being’s life over an ideological difference.
RBG set the precedent for this, by always ruling based on ideology and desired results, not the law or fairness/honesty.
Helmut– I’m not taking the time to read your many screeds, but when you talk about the dishonesty of the Left and the “by any means necessary”, that sounds to me to apply primarily to Trump, most of the Repubs in congress and the very large number of people that have been radicalized through right wing media.
Going from trying to convince a majority to support Trump by demonizing even centrist politicians as wild-eyed socialists who hate our country and want to end civilization as we know it, to . . . realizing Trump was headed for a loss, so trying by every means possible to prevent people from voting . . to then starting the banter about “rigged elections” months before election day to prime the gullible into believing Trump couldn’t possibly lose in a fair election. Then, the dozens of law suits, back channel attempts to flip state legislatures, etc., all with the goal of undoing a valid election that Trumpy lost. That didn’t work, so now rallying up the mob. If that’s the Repubs’ idea of honesty, fairness and respect for the Constitution, I think that Party is too far gone to be salvageable.
“In your opinion it didnt, ”
————————–
Biden got over 80 million votes.
Trump got in the mid-70s.
Trump screamed “fraud” but never produced any evidence of chicanery anywhere, at any time, especially in court.
In the end, Trump was reduced to pleading with a Georgia state official for an hour to “find” 11,780 votes for Trump.
When that failed, Trump whipped his supporters into a frenzy and told them to “march” on the Capitol.
Sing and dance all you want, but it’s not my opinion; it’s a fact. Trump lost, and incited an insurrection to steal the election.
“I’m going to take the low hanging fruit first. Defunding the police is not a political solution? ”
——————————-
I don’t know of any attacks on governments to prevent them from funding the police, nor even any attacks on governments to defund the police. Do you?
And that doesn’t even address the issue of whether “defunding the police” counts as a “political solution” or not.
You got a problem with advocacy of a social cause?
“There’s no point in dealing with a biased and ridiculous person like this. He knows he’s making dishonest arguments”
Projection!!
“anon (tfo) is right.”
“RBG set the precedent for this, by always ruling based on ideology and desired results, not the law or fairness/honesty.”
——————————-
Funny how I never saw any billboards to impeach RBG, but there were billboards to impeach Earl Warren after Brown v. Board of Education. Sure you don’t want to take your timeline back farther?
“Biden got over 80 million votes.
Trump got in the mid-70s.
Trump screamed “fraud” but never produced any evidence of chicanery anywhere, at any time, especially in court.
In the end, Trump was reduced to pleading with a Georgia state official for an hour to “find” 11,780 votes for Trump.
When that failed, Trump whipped his supporters into a frenzy and told them to “march” on the Capitol.
Sing and dance all you want, but it’s not my opinion; it’s a fact. Trump lost, and incited an insurrection to steal the election.”
SEE? You cannot reason with people like this, like RBG did, they choose ideology over reality or honesty. I said I wouldn’t deal with this guy, but do we have to rebut each point over again? He’s like a monkey or parrot of the worst Fake News media lies.
-No chance Biden got 80 million votes. That’s the entire argument that fraud was widespread and Dominion machines were never seized and audited. There was evidence put forth about Dominion, affidavits signed, and mathematical analysis done. It was never heard in court.
-Trump produced tons of evidence, so did others. Shuffled under the rug.
It was never heard in court.
-Trump was not “reduced to pleading for someone to “find” him 11,000 votes”. Listen to your monkey parrot drivel. You are repeating lies and dishonesty, but you have no morality or conscience whatsoever, you’re a Leftist. Here’s the transcript: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/trump-brad-raffensperger-phone-call-transcript/index.html Why don’t you read before you have diarrhea-of-the-mouth. Reffensberger and Germany in the transcript are classic at the very end, they won’t do anything and didn’t either. Plenty of evidence and they NEVER audited Fulton County.
“Trump whipped his supporters into a frenzy and told them to “march” on the Capitol.”
yes, he did that. He wanted Americans’ voices to be heard outside the Capitol. He did not incite them to storm it, there’s zero proof of that in the speech or transcript of it. None. Biden’s Antifa and BLM looters were 1000x worse.
Helmethofer,
“First, there was never a plan to disrupt a government fucntion.”
But they were sharing plans on the Internet and they came equipped with flex cuffs and molotov cocktails and pipe bombs. Sounds like a plan to disrupt to me.
“at no time did he “incite” anything violent.”
Here is what Trump said “We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.” Later he says “You do have some groups that are big supporters. I want to thank that Army and everybody” Then he went on to spew a litany of lies about how all this bad stuff was being done to the people in this crowd.
Now, either he was trying to work them up or he’s just dumb.
BTW, I’m impressed that you can post on Cribchatter while running from the FBI.
Helmethofer,
The whole Dominion story is total nonsense. Anyone can tell Powell is a nutjob. She’s a joke and now she’s being sued. Will be fun to watch her squirm in court but her defense will be that she’s innocent because she actually believed what she was saying.
“Trump said “We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.” Later he says “You do have some groups that are big supporters. I want to thank that Army and everybody” Then he went on to spew a litany of lies about how all this bad stuff was being done to the people in this crowd.
Wow, Gary…you are a selective and deceitful editor. Not surprising because for some reason you are a Leftist, and a sympathizer with liars, rioters, anti-white racists, pervs, etc.
He said: “I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.”
He said: “We’re going to walk down to the Capitol and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.”
Simplify for liar Leftists and sneaks:
“We will soon be marching to the Capitol to peacefully and patriotically make your VOICES heard. We are going to CHEER on the Congress.”
He was not inciting violence or insurrection. I can’t believe how stupid and/or dishonest you all are.
Look folks, Illinois and Chicago (“world class” city in decay) are in a world of hurt right now. People are leaving. If someone, a lifelong Chicagoan, came along and wanted to Make Chicago Great Again, would you all hate on the guy? I think you would. Because you are full of hate, ideological hatred and stupidity. You would all rather live in SH*T and and failure rather than see someone who is white and Republican fix up the mess that Democrats created. Pure spite and hate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_the_face
Trump was the most lied about President in history.
Helmet, I suppose you’re going to tell us next that Mitt Romney dropped acid, and still does?
“-No chance Biden got 80 million votes. That’s the entire argument that fraud was widespread and Dominion machines were never seized and audited. There was evidence put forth about Dominion, affidavits signed, and mathematical analysis done. It was never heard in court.”
———————————-
Actually, the affidavits were heard in court, and found wanting. That’s why many of the cases were dismissed on procedural grounds. The affiants were swearing to hearsay and supposition and “possibility,” not fact.
The Dominion machines never seized? Was there ever any reason to? Hearsay doesn’t justify legal action. Besides, the “video” (I don’t know if this was voting machine chicanery or ballot stuffing or what, the stolen election fantasies all blur together after a while) of the illegal votes being wheeled in in suitcases in some city or other was shown to be the result of selective editing by Rudy Gulliliani’s (sp) team (read: Trump) and never officially offered into evidence in any case. Why? Rudy knew it was a lie and would lose his license to practice law over it. So he did what any good lawyer would do: He alluded to it in court (but never offered it into evidence), and played it outside of court. In short, his tactic was to “poison the jury pool” — in this case the court of public opinion. Why? because his efforts were all about politics, not facts.
Finally, given that the Democrats form a circle when they make a firing squad, do you REALLY thing that not a single democratic operative broke ranks out of loyalty to the party and Biden, when jazillions of dollars and the accolades of millions of Americans awaited him for exposing the fraud that you, and Trump, believe was so widespread?
I said it before and I say it again: Biden received, legitimately, over 80 million votes. Trump only received 70+ million votes. No doubt many of those Biden votes were because voters didn’t (rightly) trust Trump with power. Guess what? Those votes still count.
We will pass over without comment the “curious” fact that Republicans down vote (senators and representatives) still won, while Trump lost.
Before you say that the down vote results were simply a Democrat ploy to hide the presidential fraud, I will say this: If there was Democrat fraud (and there was none) the Democrats would not have left the Senate on a knife edge, subject to a January run off THAT EVEN THE REPUBLICANS ADMIT the Democrats fair and square won.
I could go on, but we all (including Helmet) get the idea.
I leave you with this, Helmet: Nobody likes a whiner. It’s considered un-American.
Helmet and other “believers”:
Let me understand clearly: Trump recruited thousands of his most ardent supporters for weeks to come to Washington to stop the ascertainment. He encouraged all the tough thugs that he likes as supporters. He and his sidekicks and family got them all fired up with lies and rhetoric and talk of being tough, macho, patriotic–then directed them to march to the Capitol to stop the end of democracy, the real America, Jesus, etc
And the thought was that they’d all sit in the parking lot outside the Capitol, hold hands and sign kumbaya?!!
“I don’t know of any attacks on governments to prevent them from funding the police, nor even any attacks on governments to defund the police. Do you?”
You’re right there wasn’t any demands and political discussions to defund the police. All imaginary. LOL. Are you really this big of a Sabrina?
“And that doesn’t even address the issue of whether “defunding the police” counts as a “political solution” or not.”
If you’re up for being intellectually dishonest, it’s not. If you think it’s not, I’d love to hear a justification
“You got a problem with advocacy of a social cause?“
No but it’s such a broad term it’s meaningless. Social causes don’t give one the right to escalate to violence. The shitbirds LARPing violence have never seen the true application of violence, much less have ever been punched in the face.
“In your opinion it didnt, ”
————————–
“Biden got over 80 million votes.
Trump got in the mid-70s.
Trump screamed “fraud” but never produced any evidence of chicanery anywhere, at any time, especially in court.
In the end, Trump was reduced to pleading with a Georgia state official for an hour to “find” 11,780 votes for Trump.
When that failed, Trump whipped his supporters into a frenzy and told them to “march” on the Capitol.”
Ok Sabrina. This is meaningless
“Sing and dance all you want, but it’s not my opinion; it’s a fact. Trump lost, and incited an insurrection to steal the election.”
All 200? LOFL.
If the US can get toppled by 200 + a Shaman, it deserves to fall
If you think this was a legit threat at overthrowing the government you are functionally retarded. Please commit yourself
“ Let me understand clearly: Trump recruited thousands of his most ardent supporters for weeks to come to Washington to stop the ascertainment. He encouraged all the tough thugs that he likes as supporters. He and his sidekicks and family got them all fired up with lies and rhetoric and talk of being tough, macho, patriotic–then directed them to march to the Capitol to stop the end of democracy, the real America, Jesus, etc
And the thought was that they’d all sit in the parking lot outside the Capitol, hold hands and sign kumbaya?!!”
Trump speaks out of both sides of his ass and deserves censure
But this was not the sacking of Rome
“But this was not the sacking of Rome”
—————————-
Which is relevant how to the question of whether it was incitement to insurrection?
JohnnyU, there are far better places to read and comment on the housing market, and the recent election, without enduring insufferable abuse the motley crew of green zone socialists and political bigots that live here. The one blog I’m thinking of focuses more on the housing bubble; and doesn’t tolerate abuse and vitriol, and hate, and contempt that has come to define TDS. HH would be banned for life with even one of his insane comments. You should seek out these communities. You’re simply wasting electrons posting here.
I’ll see you on the other side, JohnnyU…
Helmethofer,
Yes, he did throw in a sentence about peaceful protest but you have to look at that in the context of everything else going on. This group included a bunch of people who came prepared for a fight. They’ve been waiting for this day for years. Then you have Giuliani talking about trial by combat and one of his sons talking about “coming for you” and Mo Brooks talking about taking names and kicking ass.
And let’s not forget what got those people there in the first place. They were told a vicious lie. As far as I’m concerned Trump committed treason the moment he refused to cooperate on a transition and then again when he spread the lies about the election.
“If you think this was a legit threat at overthrowing the government you are functionally retarded. Please commit yourself”
You are right JohnnyU. It was not a legit threat. That’s all part of the Big Lie.
Cruz and Hawley’s “objections” couldn’t stop the certification nor stop Biden from becoming President, yet they did it which also contributed to the Big Lie.
Many going into the Capitol thought they could somehow “stop” it. They thought Pence could do something. (He couldn’t.) The Big Lie led them into Nancy Pelosi’s office and, for many, to jail.
There was no plan, except to harm Congressmen and Senators, about what would happen next once they “took” the Capitol.
That doesn’t make it any less serious.
White violence has been happening in the United States since the Civil War. This is another wave of it.
“-No chance Biden got 80 million votes. That’s the entire argument that fraud was widespread and Dominion machines were never seized and audited. There was evidence put forth about Dominion, affidavits signed, and mathematical analysis done. It was never heard in court.”
This is the Big Lie.
Biden easily won. You all have been fed a load of crappy propaganda.
Sad.
This is why Hawley and Cruz must resign. Same with any Congressmen who aided and abetted the terrorists.
“Look folks, Illinois and Chicago (“world class” city in decay) are in a world of hurt right now. People are leaving. If someone, a lifelong Chicagoan, came along and wanted to Make Chicago Great Again, would you all hate on the guy?”
The pied piper syndrome?
Follow me, the savior. The messiah. I’ll solve all your problems.
Lol.
Weak minds, yes. Everyone else, no.
HH is so dark and depressing. He literally hates everything. Everything is doomed.
Can you even imagine living like this?
Sorry HH. The Democrats have won the popular vote in 6 of the last 7 elections. They will continue to do so. Part of the Republican Party is going to break away. It guarantees that the Republican Party will die. Not sure what will happen to the Trump Party. It will have just 25% of the vote.
But as we’ve seen, doesn’t mean some QAnon/Trump candidates won’t win in select districts. But bye-bye to holding nationwide office.
“Trump wanted Josh Hawley and others in Congress to objection to the electoral certification lawfully and procedurally, and discuss the fraud evidence that the courts refused to examine formally.”
He had lawyers who were given this opportunity in dozens of courts. They couldn’t produce a single piece of evidence.
Because there is none. There aren’t even dead people who voted. In Georgia there were TWO dead people who voted.
TWO.
LOL.
“Like I said to HH, just because the terrorists didn’t succeed because of luck, or stupidity, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a serious attack.”
“Bullshit. A guy stealing a podium and grinning like an idiot in a photo is NOT equivalent to ISIS deaths or illegal Mossad attacks and murders by Israel etc.”
6 people died in the 1993 World Trade Center attack. They were expecting it to be much worse. They tried to bring the building down. It was still a terrorist attack. Doesn’t matter that they failed in their goals.
Here, they clearly failed in their goals.
Still a terrorist attack.
“Here’s what you lied about
“They diffused two active bombs at both the RNC and DNC (unclear why those didn’t go off but maybe they were meant to be a distraction to move the police there) and they took into possession at least one van with even more bombs.”
The bomb went off near Sen Byrd (D-KKK) office”
What??? I think you don’t understand what I’m talking about JohnnyU.
There were TWO BOMBS LAST WEEK. One at the RNC and one at the DNC. Neither went off. Neither was successful. But why?
That was part of the plan. Did it just fail? Or was it just a distraction to get police and FBI to move to those locations?
Did we just get lucky that they failed to go off?
THIS HAPPENED LAST WEEK.
They also took at least one van into custody that had more bombs.
The FBI has released pictures of the guy dropping off the bombs and is asking for leads, obviously.
“The one blog I’m thinking of focuses more on the housing bubble;”
The housing bubble blog? Love it.
That’s the blog where they talked about Obama doing “go time” for about 5 years.
“Go Time” was when, after a protest like those in Ferguson, Obama was going to declare martial law and stay in office past his 8 years becoming, you know, an autocrat. A king.
Ironically, it’s Trump who tried this instead.
I should hope they’ve stopped talking about Obama over there by now. I guess I should check in on them to see.
“This is why Hawley and Cruz must resign. Same with any Congressmen who aided and abetted the terrorists.”
They’re not going to because they don’t answer to the likes of you or CNN. The MSM is trying everything in their power to pressure them to do so as if they maintain control of our society–newsflash: they do not.
But by trying this the left also drastically lowers the chance those who actually engaged in incitement will not answer for their crimes criminally.
And Donald is now going to be tried in the senate after he is out of office, continuing to live rent free in the minds of the left.
“But by trying this the left also drastically lowers the chance those who actually engaged in incitement will not answer for their crimes criminally.”
Wrong Bob.
FBI has identified 200 people. 100 have been charged and arrested. More serious charges may be forthcoming for many of them, as the investigation continues.
One judge denied bail for one of them today as he had openly threatened violence against several members of Congress.
“One judge denied bail for one of them today as he had openly threatened violence against several members of Congress.”
That dude had car trouble or something and only got to DC after the recon mission was over.
“then directed them to march to the Capitol to stop the end of democracy, the real America, Jesus, etc. And the thought was that they’d all sit in the parking lot outside the Capitol, hold hands and sign kumbaya?!
Um, yeah. First, once again, Trump did not incite them. Those are lies of the media and the Left. Go watch the the video. Go read the transcript. There simply is no proof whatsoever of incitement or insurrection. Stop the BS.
Secondly, I know people who went to the rally, a married couple from Boston MSA and a college buddy near Philly. And they most certainly did not go there to overthrow the government, storm the Capitol, etc. These are lies and you people who repeat them are immoral scumbags.
Third, if the “expert” FBI is supposedly so smart, and monitoring these so-called isolated militia groups, then why the Hell didn’t they have more security? Nobody “stormed” the Capitol, most innocent people simply walked right in and did no damage. Yet the vindictive WashDC atty. general wants to charge all these normal folks with serious charges.
“This is why Hawley and Cruz must resign. Same with any Congressmen who aided and abetted the terrorists.”
Probably the stupidest thing ever posted to CC
Most people followed the herd and walked into a public building (owned by US taxpayers). It was “insurrection”?
So many of you are very hateful and vindictive people. Sad. Leftism is for losers, angry losers, people on the DSM scale and lifetime SSRI patients.
“There was no plan, except to harm Congressmen and Senators, about what would happen next once they “took” the Capitol.”
If civilian kommandos wanted to “harm Congressmen” dontcha think they’d have been armed? I mean legitimately, not some CNN bs that they were.
“Sorry HH. The Democrats have won the popular vote in 6 of the last 7 elections.”
Agreed. Not sure why you think anti-white racists and socialists are good leaders. Why are people leaving IL and Chicago, NY, CA, etc.? It’s not the weather (CA). CA has a supermajority Democrat government and it’s very diseased in the head.
“Wrong Bob.
FBI has identified 200 people. 100 have been charged and arrested. More serious charges may be forthcoming for many of them, as the investigation continues.
One judge denied bail for one of them today as he had openly threatened violence against several members of Congress.”
I meant those whose names you know who might now not be criminally charged with incitement. The foot soldiers themselves are looking at lengthy stays in prison similar to John Walker Lindh, the American Taliban. Trump, Brooks, Giuliani now won’t likely face justice when the rage of the left extends to those who didn’t do anything criminally wrong (Cruz, Hawley).
“Trump did not incite them. Those are lies of the media and the Left. Go watch the the video. Go read the transcript.”
I did and it sure sounds like incitement to me. I’ve already pointed out the inflammatory statements. And then there is all the lies about how the election was stolen, which really pumped up this delusional mob.
“Nobody “stormed” the Capitol, most innocent people simply walked right in and did no damage.”
Bullshit. Doesn’t Newsmax play the videos of people throwing stuff through the windows and beating the cop”? What about crushing the cop in the door? People chanting “hang Mike Pence” or “kill him with his own gun”? Why did people have flex cuffs?
Am I the only person who remembers Trump telling us that Covid-19 was going to “disappear” right after the election?
No, you are not. But that’s just another one of his 21,000+ lies. You can’t even keep track of them all. I’ve asked numerous people to find me a 10 minute video clip of the guy speaking extemporaneously without lying and nobody has taken me up on the challenge.
“Nobody “stormed” the Capitol, most innocent people simply walked right in and did no damage.”
Or see the recently released New Yorker video of the mob going into the Senate chamber.
Many more serious charges are coming in the next several weeks.
“Agreed. Not sure why you think anti-white racists and socialists are good leaders. Why are people leaving IL and Chicago, NY, CA, etc.? It’s not the weather (CA). CA has a supermajority Democrat government and it’s very diseased in the head.”
Median price of a home in California is now $710,000. In some counties, like Orange, it’s nearly $1 million.
Ha ha.
https://www.independentsentinel.com/antifa-is-finally-anti-fascist-theyre-smashing-up-dem-hq-in-or/
hahaha
“Median price of a home in California is now $710,000. In some counties, like Orange, it’s nearly $1 million.
Ha ha.”
Sabrina continues to live in her own little world of no consequence. Someone on a RE blog shilling high home prices as if that is some evidence of success instead of a giant red herring that there are deep structural issues regarding housing affordability.
States with the highest and lowest homeownership: New York, California rank at the bottom
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/11/01/states-with-highest-lowest-homeownership/40479391/
“States with the highest and lowest homeownership: New York, California rank at the bottom”
And Nevada and Texas are barely better.
NY is really two markets for this purpose: the 5 boroughs, and the rest of the state. Ex-NYC, the numbers would be somewhere around national average–probably pretty close to Pennsylvania. And NYC alone would be off the charts bad.
CA is just stupidly overvalued right now (again).
“NY is really two markets for this purpose: the 5 boroughs, and the rest of the state.”
It’s more NYC metro vs upstate. Affordability is horrible across NYC metro which is part of the BosWash corridor which its horrible throughout.
People are leaving these places in droves are they are able to as very high property valuations plus sky-high property taxes are a double whammy.
Unrelated question. How much does a poorly decorated, non-updated unit that sells in a 3 or 4 unit building hurt property value of other owners? Curious to hear some expert thoughts.
Surprising Nevada is that low till you realize that 70% of the entire state population is in the Las Vegas metro area
and housing up here in Reno ain’t cheap anymore thats for sure, just got an appraisal done for a refi and my value increased 140k in a little over a year and a half, thats crazy! granted I put quite a bit of money into the home but still…
“Sabrina continues to live in her own little world of no consequence. Someone on a RE blog shilling high home prices as if that is some evidence of success instead of a giant red herring that there are deep structural issues regarding housing affordability.”
Bob: it’s simply supply and demand. We have millions of Millennials who want to buy homes but limited supply. Even in Chicago and the Chicago suburbs.
With inventory at record lows nationwide, prices will rise. Yes, even in Chicago it is happening. Gasp.
Circle of life.
Eventually real estate was going to go into another bull market with the largest generation buying. We are seeing that now. It’s going to drive someone like Bob who has been a permabear for 14 years, insane. Because a bull isn’t a bubble.
But until inventory starts to rise, prices have only one way to go. Higher.
And it’s ironic that you all are now saying I’m a “shill” for higher home prices when Chuk accused me of being a permabear for about 7 years on this blog. Lol.
“ But until inventory starts to rise, prices have only one way to go. Higher“
No, and this is why you are considered a shill/clown/etc
You purposely ignore factors that would negatively affect housing prices.
CTU/CPS, violence and the city/state finances all can crater the housing market. You are content keeping your head buried in the sand wrt any potential negative impact. You just aren’t willing to entertain the possibility that housing prices can’t go anywhere but up
“How much does a poorly decorated, non-updated unit that sells in a 3 or 4 unit building hurt property value of other owners? Curious to hear some expert thoughts.”
I would expect the impact to be small. If another unit goes on the market that presents better it should sell based on it’s own merits. Buyers are going to be comparing it to what else is available on the market at that time and what has sold more broadly than just that one building. Also, they should mentally adjust for updates.
Will it hurt some? Perhaps. But I would not expect much.
“CTU/CPS, violence and the city/state finances all can crater the housing market. You are content keeping your head buried in the sand wrt any potential negative impact. You just aren’t willing to entertain the possibility that housing prices can’t go anywhere but up”
Whut???
Median price in Chicago has been rising all year even with everything happening. Now, maybe that’s because more $5 million mansions are selling but that just confirms MY thesis, not yours. As the rich are the ones who should be fleeing if your “reasons” for home prices to go down actually mattered.
But they don’t.
December sales at highest level since boom, boom year of 2006.
Chicago is still lagging suburbs and the rest of the state which are red hot. Sizzling out in the suburbs.
But Chicago sales are up 26% in December since 2018. And it’s supposed to be the slow month.
The economy will slowly recover this year and sports/entertainment will return (fingers crossed) later this year. Tourists as well. All cities across America (and the world) will be pulsing with energy. People will want to be a part of it. Apartment towers will fill up again and downtown condos will sell again.
Those who kept their jobs have money saved from not going anywhere or doing anything for 18 months. They want to buy a new home.
Chicago is a world class city with world class amenities. And the jobs continue to be here, even if you work part of the week from home.
Mortgage rates may rise, but will still be historically low.
Housing is in a bull market. You can whine about it all you want. A new generation of buyers is in this market. They don’t have the old preconceived notions of home buying and weren’t adults during the housing bubble/bust.
The announcement that a developer was putting in condos into the Printers Row development along the river could be the first sign that the developers are going to return to more affordable condos instead of building apartments.
“How much does a poorly decorated, non-updated unit that sells in a 3 or 4 unit building hurt property value of other owners? Curious to hear some expert thoughts.”
I agree with what Gary says. Buyers only care about what’s in front of them so they care about the finishes. They will pay more for the updated unit every day of the week and don’t care about the sale of a non-updated unit in the same building as long as the updated one isn’t overly updated for the building.
Such as, don’t put in a Subzero if the building isn’t a Subzero building.
“ Median price in Chicago has been rising all year even with everything happening. Now, maybe that’s because more $5 million mansions are selling but that just confirms MY thesis, not yours.”
Five $5MM house sales isn’t going to move the median much. Perhaps you meant mean?
“ But Chicago sales are up 26% in December since 2018. And it’s supposed to be the slow month.”
What might have happed to push sales into December? Can’t quite put my finger on it…
“ Those who kept their jobs have money saved from not going anywhere or doing anything for 18 months. They want to buy a new home”.
Is there something stopping them or just filler coming from your keyboard?
“ Housing is in a bull market. You can whine about it all you want. A new generation of buyers is in this market. They don’t have the old preconceived notions of home buying and weren’t adults during the housing bubble/bust.”
Can you go on record to define a “Bull Market”, you move the goal posts so much it’s difficult to keep track. Shouldn’t a bull market include capital appreciation?
“It’s more NYC metro vs upstate. Affordability is horrible across NYC metro”
Without looking, I’d wager that ownership %age in Suffolk, Nassau, Westchester, Rockland in total is within 4 points of the rest of NY ex-NYC, and basically at national average.
[checking…]
Nassau (80.6) and Suffolk (80.1) are #3 & #4 highest rates, while Rockland (68.7) is above national average and Westchester (61.3) lags a bit.
# of housing units:
N = 474,165
S = 577,512
R= 107,002
W = 377,297
So weighting them gives an average of a bit less than 75%–what would be the highest rate, it those 4 counties were a state–and their aggregate population is b/t Oregon and Oklahoma.
Given that 75% is above the median for the rest of the state ex-NYC, and those 4 counties are over 1/3 of the population of the rest of the state, I probably underestimated them v the statewide (ex-NYC) number.
“What might have happed to push sales into December? Can’t quite put my finger on it…”
They would have gone under contract in October and November. So I don’t know. You tell me why someone would want to close on a property during the holidays 2 years in a row when it’s historically one of the slowest months of the year because no one wants to move during the holidays.
December 2019 was hot. December 2020 was even hotter.
It’s been over a decade since we’ve had 2 years of sales growth over 25%. Wow.
That’s awesome. About time. Get rid of a lot of that older inventory. If new doesn’t come on in the next few weeks, it’s going to be slim pickings for buyers. Will push prices up on the decent properties on the market.
Chicago will finally be entering into another bull market. First time in a long time.
“ They would have gone under contract in October and November. So I don’t know. You tell me why someone would want to close on a property during the holidays 2 years in a row when it’s historically one of the slowest months of the year because no one wants to move during the holidays.”
Think shill (and Stop the goal post moving, you aren’t that bright). What was different this year that hadn’t happened in the last 50 years or so?
“Think shill (and Stop the goal post moving, you aren’t that bright). What was different this year that hadn’t happened in the last 50 years or so?”
I have no clue what you’re even talking about JohnnyU.
In October? No idea what happened then versus any other October. Ditto with November.
Obviously, you have no clue either or you would just say what it is.
And since the good December sales have happened 2 years in a row now, again, I don’t know what has been going on in October and November for 2 years now.
Crain’s with a new article out about Illinois’ population loss since 2010.
Chicago isn’t losing it, downstate is. BUT- Chicago isn’t gaining like other metro areas. Houston and Atlanta are growing at 10% a year.
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hinz-politics/heres-whos-leaving-and-coming-illinois
“The drop is heavily concentrated downstate, where all but six of the 96 counties lost people during the decade, the bulk of them by more than the overall state drop of 2 percent.
That’s not the case in the Chicago area, where the city of Chicago and the six counties that comprise the traditional metropolitan area were stable or grew a little.”