Market Conditions: Trying to Sell a Downtown Condo in Chicago in 2020? Good Luck.
7 months into the coronavirus pandemic, the impacts on the Chicago housing market are still shaking out.
In addition to the pandemic, the protests and looting of stores on the Mag Mile, and elsewhere in the city, also have had an impact on the city’s housing market.
But how much?
It’s become clearer that there have been different impacts of all these events depending on the location of the property in the city.
Downtown condos have gone cold while single family homes in the neighborhoods are hot.
Buyers want more space and a backyard. They don’t want to ride in an elevator.
Dennis Rodkin at Crain’s recently tried to figure it all out.
In the week ended Sept. 26 and most of the eight weeks prior, 1,000 or more condos came on the market in Chicago, according to data posted Oct. 5 by the Chicago Association of Realtors. The exception was the week before Labor Day, when 911 condos came on the market.
In that same eight-week stretch, buyers put fewer than 400 condos under contract per week, and in several weeks it was fewer than 325.
Meanwhile, as reported by the Chicago Association of Realtors, single family home inventory was just 2.8 months at the end of August citywide.
According to Rodkin, that’s the lowest inventory since January 2008, when CAR started reporting the data.
Meanwhile, condo and attached inventory, like townhouses, were at 6.1 months. That’s the highest since 2012.
In some downtown neighborhoods, it’s much higher and is clearly a buyers market.
Some of that inventory, however, is coming from the new luxury buildings that have listed units on the MLS.
However, there’s no doubt, that sales have gone cold downtown.
“River North, Gold Coast, Streeterville—those are the most difficult markets right now,” says Harry Maisel, an @properties agent representing a unit at 21 E. Huron. Buyers “don’t want to look at anything in a high-rise.”
With the inventory of condos so badly out of balance, price cuts are inevitable. Maisel says that at his 17th-floor listing on Huron, he had “zero showings in eight weeks” before cutting the price on Sept. 27 by a little over $69,000, to $829,900. Within a week, he says, two potential buyers asked to see the condo.
Is now the time to get a deal on a downtown condo?
2020 is giving Chicago condo sellers a headache [Crain’s Chicago Business, by Dennis Rodkin, October 9, 2020]
“Is now the time to get a deal on a condo downtown?”
No. I believe this pandemic will permanently change the Loop, as well as people’s perspectives of what is safe, and what they want in a home.
A vaccine will come out and eventually we will move past COVID 19, but we won’t forget about it anytime soon.
People’s perspectives will only change for as long as the hoax is allowed to continue. It’s a cold virus people, wake the fuck up already, your being fooled. By who? For what reason? Dont know.
Unless you can walk to work, I don’t see why anybody would want to move downtown right now. Especially in a high rise.
“No. I believe this pandemic will permanently change the Loop, as well as people’s perspectives of what is safe, and what they want in a home.
A vaccine will come out and eventually we will move past COVID 19, but we won’t forget about it anytime soon.”
Covid has only accelerated the shift out of the dense urban core for the reasons above, along with the financial situation of the city and that effect S&L term on the schools
Anyone buying a condo as a short term solution/means to step up is a fool. You’re trying to catch a falling knife
How the city/developer reposition ORE & Low/Mid end condo’s is going to be interesting – Plenty of space for the homeless
Sabrina, was it yesterday you said “I’m restricted in what properties I can feature here on Cribchatter because so many are going under contract so quickly, I don’t have time to post about them before that happens.”? So write about all these condos that are sitting.
It will be interesting to watch when Vista starts delivering units to owners this winter. Supposedly, they are < 50% sold and Dalian Wanda sold their remaining interest to Magellan, so there will be no 5-Star Wanda Hotel. I can't imagine another hotel operator, i.e. Mandarin Oriental or Shangri La hotel would desire to open a luxury new hotel in Chicago when current occupancy is < 25%.
Also, the condos are priced $1,000-$1,3000 sqft and two penthouse buyers are suing Magellan to void their contracts. At this rate, buyers might be better to walk away from the down payment and not even close.
Looking for advice:
Does anyone feel like the condo market in Lincoln Park has bottomed yet, or is there more room on the downside?
Is it worth waiting till after the election and any associated chaos or political changes in Washington to see what the market does? I hear a lot of people are holding off, and worry that if things go smoothly, prices could go back up.
I realize it’s impossible to time the market, but with things so unsettled, just wondering what people think of buying now vs. waiting. Looking at a 2 BR in Lincoln Park in a 1970s high rise condo building listed at $385,000. Needs some work, but great view.
all I know is that my former properties send a redfin price update e-mailed to me every month and both my former properties in Chicago (a condo and a townhouse both in the near north side) are -4% this year/year while my current home out of state is +5%
How does this anecdata test the HAWT market theory
” It’s a cold virus people, wake the fuck up already, your being fooled. By who? For what reason? Dont know.”
Agreed. The “200,000 deaths” is a complete deceit-filled lie. Thy list COVID on the death certs even when it was not the cause. We all know that only those with co-morbidity have problems and that hospital are being paid for filling out “COVID” on death forms.
There is some radical environmentalism behind the hoax. They are happy that nobody is commuting and using fossil fuels. Nobody is travelling on planes any more, etc. The middle class was getting too uppity thinking they could fly to Cabo for vacations etc. They had to get smacked down by the liberal rich who live hypocritical lives.
Trump has beaten COVID, while Biden may end up dying from it. That would be social justice, since Biden wants to lock everyone down unscientifically.
It would be a good time to buy downtown, buy low, but the big issue are the hysterical dumb masses who will force corporate America to abandon office buildings.
Yes. I’ll tell my patients when I’m admitting them to the hospital for treatment (many young o/w healthy) that covid is a hoax and they should just go home b/c its all a “radical environmentalism” agenda by the “liberal rich”. You truly are deplorable and a miserable person. Go back under that rock that you crawled out of, you’d do some good for humanity.
“I realize it’s impossible to time the market, but with things so unsettled, just wondering what people think of buying now vs. waiting. Looking at a 2 BR in Lincoln Park in a 1970s high rise condo building listed at $385,000. Needs some work, but great view.”
Depends what you’re buying it for Primary residence, income, stabin cabin, etc
In general, I’d say the bottom isnt close for this type of property.
Also Governor Fat “I’d rather be in Wisconsin” Fuck is doing his best to get Illinois into true Junk status.
“helmethofer” = DUNCE
Put down the crack pipe ya racist prick
Dan #2 your state and local budget and their policies mean more to the local Chicago real estate market than Washington. If Lori announces a property tax hike next week do you believe that helps or hurts Lincoln Park condo values?
“Agreed. The “200,000 deaths” is a complete deceit-filled lie. Thy list COVID on the death certs even when it was not the cause.”
Uhhhh. Have you not seen the excess mortality analyses? We’ve had more than 200,000 more deaths this year than normal. How do you explain that?
And anyone can beat Covid if they can be medivaced to a hospital in 10 minutes and treated by 10 doctors with the latest therapeutics at no cost.
For that price, plus maintenance, etc., you’d be better off with a membership at a private brothel. Maybe a place to park your dependent mistress, but as a stabbin cabin — too expensive.
“We’ve had more than 200,000 more deaths this year than normal. How do you explain that?”
It’s between 3% and 4% more than normal. We have bad flue years worse than this increase. lets see where the year ends up and we can sort out the suicides, alcoholism and drug overdoses.
If people dont stop feeding the lie we are going to lose our economy, country and way of life. Imagine America taken down not by the Russians, or Nazis, but by a bunch of pussies afraid of a common cold.
Lots of tinfoil hat kind of comments here on the pandemic. I’m guessing we have some Fox News viewers and people who get their info from Trump’s tweets. Sad.
Lots of tinfoil hat kind of comments here on the pandemic. I’m guessing we have some Fox News viewers and people who get their info from Trump’s tweets. Sad.
Stabin cabin? You people sure have interesting thoughts. No, weekend place.
“We have bad flue years worse than this increase.”
Just stop it now. Just stop.
People are so weak minded. My god.
Britain is shutting down major cities again. Same with Paris and Madrid. Is it just the “flu” for everyone marko?
By the way, your “arguments” that we will “lose our way of life” were made in 1918 too. That’s why some cities saw higher death rates than others. Because of morons who had no clue.
You’d think in the “modern” society with expert scientists and doctors on tv we’d do better this time.
But apparently not.
By the way, countries with women leaders have done better during the pandemic because women listen to doctors and scientists.
“In general, I’d say the bottom isnt close for this type of property.”
How do you figure?
If we get a vaccine in December, you’ve already missed the bottom.
Are you assuming it’s years before the vaccine?
“It would be a good time to buy downtown, buy low, but the big issue are the hysterical dumb masses who will force corporate America to abandon office buildings.”
HH doesn’t live in Chicago. No one should take his advice about anything happening in the city.
“How does this anecdata test the HAWT market theory”
1. Real estate is local.
2. Your Chicago properties were in the downtown which, as the article states, have high inventory. No, I wouldn’t want to be selling in downtown right now.
That’s about it.
If you had previously owned a single family home in Logan Square and moved to Nevada, would you even be posting about it sonies?
Nope.
“Does anyone feel like the condo market in Lincoln Park has bottomed yet, or is there more room on the downside?”
Real estate takes years to decline, when it does. See 2008-2012 for the last example.
You can go back and read this site and see all the times many, many people said Lincoln Park prices would NEVER fall (they finally did). But they never crashed like other neighborhoods. There wasn’t enough inventory on the market there compared to other neighborhoods.
Are you willing to wait years to see what happens?
And how much inventory is in the building? How long has the unit been on the market? Have there been price reductions? How “eager” is the seller to sell? (usually your agent can try and get that out of the other agent).
I don’t think the election is going to have any bearing on the Chicago housing market. Biden is going to win in a blowout. The only question is the Senate. Democrats will likely pick up several more House seats.
“I can’t imagine another hotel operator, i.e. Mandarin Oriental or Shangri La hotel would desire to open a luxury new hotel in Chicago when current occupancy is < 25%." It's not under 25%. It's closer to 40% now. They only need about 40% to break even. Marriott just reopened their big hotel on the Mag Mile, which is a sign they know demand is on the rise. Also, JJ, most are thinking well beyond the next 6 months. If you're opening a luxury hotel in the Vista, you are thinking 10 to 20 YEARS down the line. Look at the builders. They're still making proposals for big developments, COVID be damned. They're also getting the loans. Next cool development to watch is the one at the Moody's Bible College. They're looking to build several new high rises, some townhomes and it looks like they may keep the historic warehouse buildings on the property and convert those.
“So write about all these condos that are sitting”
I already have been covering all condos Gary. It gets incredibly boring. And then people on this site start complaining that I’m not covering single family homes or other neighborhoods.
“Anyone buying a condo as a short term solution/means to step up is a fool. You’re trying to catch a falling knife”
No one should ever buy real estate for the “short term.” That’s the first mistake.
Average time in a property used to be 7 years. I haven’t seen the recent statistics. But you need to be there long enough to make sure the transaction costs are paid and they’re 5% to 7%.
I will bookmark this doom and gloom outlook like I did in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 etc. when people said Chicago was doomed and housing would NEVER come back.
Really- this site is illuminating. Go back and look at the posts from 2011. I would post on a house that was like $200,000 off the prior sales price and still people thought it would go lower and it never did.
Covid will be contained next year. The Cubs will play again with fans in the stadium. People will go back to their jobs downtown. Everyone I know can’t wait to get back to the office.
Even the Spanish flu was over pretty quickly and everyone moved on.
“Unless you can walk to work, I don’t see why anybody would want to move downtown right now. Especially in a high rise.”
Why not?
Because it’s exciting? There’s great restaurants? Good shopping? You can walk to the lake and the River? There will be ice skating shortly?
“By who? For what reason? Dont know.”
Good question Marko. Why IS Madrid shut down again? Why DID Wisconsin just build a 500 bed field hospital to handle all their covid cases that don’t exist?
Why has Bali kept its borders closed for months which has devastated its tourist-based economy?
Why marko? Why?
Lol.
“Lots of tinfoil hat kind of comments here on the pandemic.”
Agreed. We had people first crying that banning travel was xenophobic and racist, but then we morphed to enforced LOCKDOWNS in our own nation. We had people say masks don’t work, then it morphed into masks are required! We had people say that social distancing is important, but then it didn’t matter to those same people when anti-white racist looters and BLM bigots and ugly white women went on sinful and hateful violent tirades.
It’s nuts. Nobody famous had died from COVID. Trump beat it and he’s 74 yrs. old. It’s not a pandemic, it’s a scamdemic. The “200,000” dead is a lie and anyone who supports the unscientific and dishonest classifications is ignorant or immoral or willing to support immorality because of leftist politics.
“Yes. I’ll tell my patients when I’m admitting them to the hospital for treatment (many young o/w healthy)”
You are liar. The hospitals are NOT overrun. The point is that COVID is not a pandemic, it’s a form of the flu. It’s not a pandemic!!! The so-called cure (lockdowns) is hurting and killing more people than the COVID itself.
Biden just recently stated that “he’s running for the Senate” and could not remember Mitt Romney’s name. That people of Sabrina’s ilk would actually vote FOR Biden just shows that they are about hate, not what’s good for the country. Anti-Trump hatred and misandrist and femcunt craziness is not a legitimate philosophy or voting platform. Anger and hate cannot produce anything good! So Biden voters must do some serious self-reflection as to why they support a senile candidate over a very competent and healthy one.
So funny to see Leftists supporting a candidate that has been in corrupt WashDC for 47 years. You morons are the ones supporting the status quo, and you are not counter-cultural. You support “the man” and the system you claim to be fighting against.
“Nobody famous had died from COVID.”
Herman Cain, to name just one.
“That people of Sabrina’s ilk would actually vote FOR Biden just shows that they are about hate, not what’s good for the country.”
Biden will win in a blowout in 3 weeks.
“You are liar. The hospitals are NOT overrun.”
Wrong. Wisconsin has now opened its 500+ bed field hospital because the hospitals are overrun.
One of the Dakotas also only has like 25 ICU beds left in the entire state. They are on the edge as well.
In Chicago, you are correct, the hospitals are NOT overrun.
Wear a mask. Wash your hands.
“Herman Cain, to name just one.”
“Wisconsin has now opened its 500+ bed field hospital because the hospitals are overrun.
One of the Dakotas also only has like 25 ICU beds left in the entire state.”
LOL, that’s all you got?!!
You’re a joke. You aren’t convincing anyone. You can wear your mask and stop working, if you even do work. You can shut yourself in. Don’t ever fly for vacation again either. You practice what you preach for others. Don’t be like Pelosi without a mask, getting her hair done while telling others to lockdown.
“Don’t be like Pelosi without a mask, getting her hair done while telling others to lockdown.”
The Speaker scares you, does she HH?
Meanwhile, the President of the United States hasn’t ever worn a mask and has infected most of his staff, his wife and who knows who else while holding super spreader events. Yeah- that’s responsible.
Oh, and there’s now only 1 ICU bed available in the entire Bismark, ND metro area as the virus outbreak there worsens. Pray for the medical professionals in that state. It’s going to be really rough. What do they do if there’s multi-car crash? Where do those patients go? Heart attack? Stroke?
This pandemic is far from under control. It’s why Biden is going to win in a blowout. We all KNOW what is going on out there. And winter isn’t even here yet.
What a disaster this is. It didn’t have to be like this.
“You’re a joke. You aren’t convincing anyone.”
Herman Cain’s death isn’t enough? 215,000 deaths aren’t enough? My friend’s mother’s death isn’t enough?
What IS enough HH? 300,000? 400,000? 500,000? A million dead? Half of all restaurants out of business? Most of the hotels going under? 30+ million unemployed? People who don’t have enough food?
Would that convince you then?
Why does it take an even greater tragedy to convince you?
This is why Biden will win in a blowout. The country just wants competence.
“ How do you figure?”
To start
Political unrest
Shitty state & city finances
Low demand for this property type
Etc
“ HH doesn’t live in Chicago. No one should take his advice about anything happening in the city.”
HH may be correct. Look at the companies pushing out to June for reopening Corp offices
“ “I can’t imagine another hotel operator, i.e. Mandarin Oriental or Shangri La hotel would desire to open a luxury new hotel in Chicago when current occupancy is < 25%." It's not under 25%. It's closer to 40% now. They only need about 40% to break even. Marriott just reopened their big hotel on the Mag Mile, which is a sign they know demand is on the rise. Also, JJ, most are thinking well beyond the next 6 months. If you're opening a luxury hotel in the Vista, you are thinking 10 to 20 YEARS down the line. Look at the builders. They're still making proposals for big developments, COVID be damned. They're also getting the loans. Next cool development to watch is the one at the Moody's Bible College. They're looking to build several new high rises, some townhomes and it looks like they may keep the historic warehouse buildings on the property and convert those.”
Why are Gov Fatfuck & Lucky Sperm Pool Penny looking at closing properties?
“ Good question Marko. Why IS Madrid shut down again? Why DID Wisconsin just build a 500 bed field hospital to handle all their covid cases that don’t exist?”
Cause Gov Fat Fuck didn’t think the stay at home order applied to him and his family?
This is the FISH & FIBS fault, look at the hot spots.
clearly the troll has never been inside a hospital and waited days for an ICU or monitored bed. your “argument” is a farce and you’re clearly not interested in having a fact based conversation. I strongly believe in people having good mental health care and sounds like you’re in need.
Do commercial RE companies and franchise owners like Potbelly have anyone to help them fight this exodus? Everyone is looking at what this will do on the residential side but I wonder what collapse is coming on the commercial side, if people no longer have to commute downtown. Obviously Nike will be ok but what about the owner of a small dry cleaner or coffee shop in the loop?
“It’s between 3% and 4% more than normal. We have bad flue years worse than this increase. lets see where the year ends up and we can sort out the suicides, alcoholism and drug overdoses.”
Marko, please show us your source for this information. In the meantime let me show you some real data. Check this out. Third graph. In particular, the week of April 12 had 45% higher deaths than normal. You think that was suicides and drug overdoses? https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
“The “200,000” dead is a lie and anyone who supports the unscientific and dishonest classifications is ignorant or immoral or willing to support immorality because of leftist politics.”
Since Trump acknowledges this number does that make him “ignorant or immoral or willing to support immorality because of leftist politics.”?
Show us your data on deaths. I just posted a link to one of my sources and it’s not dependent on classifications.
“And then people on this site start complaining that I’m not covering single family homes or other neighborhoods.”
Sabrina, I can help with this. Seriously. Pick a community area. Let’s say Lake View. There are currently 67 SFHs on the market. 61 have been on the market more than 30 days. 44 more than 60 days. 35 more than 90 days.
I can privately send you some properties that have languished. We can have a lot of fun discussing why they are sitting and what price they will ultimately sell for.
Sabrina,
I just tried emailing you a couple of feature suggestions but the email bounced. I guess that email address for you no longer works and I don’t see one listed on the site anymore. Personally I think you should crowdsource this problem.
CDC only estimates up to 2/3 the 200,000 excess deaths are related to covid, this was widely published yesterday. At the peak, CDC estimated that by July, 627 excess deaths per million. Normally it’s 3,643 per million. And this is just like years 2009-10 or 2016-17. By the end of year this may go down since July was close to the peak. But at this point just fuck you people who support this fake pandemic. Outside of a few cities on the west and east coasts and one retarded state in the middle, this country is going a totally different direction and they are eating our lunch, and good for them. But go on virtue signaling your wokeness and rule following. You people are allowing a fat fucking parasite to commit state suicide in hopes of a bailout that will never come. Great reset my ass – this is going to fail in the EU, Americas and wherever else they are trying to pull this shit off. See you in the streets Nov 4th, if it’s ok for you to leave your cocoons.
Marko, if this was widely published I don’t know why I can’t find it. Can you please provide a link?
There are two different issues here that are getting conflated. How bad is the pandemic and how best to react to it? We can debate the latter. I would hope we could agree on a consistent set of facts to settle the debate about the former.
“Do commercial RE companies and franchise owners like Potbelly have anyone to help them fight this exodus? Everyone is looking at what this will do on the residential side but I wonder what collapse is coming on the commercial side, if people no longer have to commute downtown. Obviously Nike will be ok but what about the owner of a small dry cleaner or coffee shop in the loop?”
CRE – Not yet, but I dont see NancyP letting her fortune sink into the abyss. Long term they’ll get repositioned. Into what, I’m not sure.
SB/Franchisees – in office areas, they’re screwed. Rents need to come down considerably to offset the lower traffic
Trying again: Does anyone have any educated opinions on the market for high rise LP 2/2s? Are prices going lower? Is inventory as bad as in Loop/River North? Stupid to buy now?
This is a second home/weekend place. For wife and self. Not expecting it to be a great long-term investment, seeing how badly that’s worked out over the last 20 yesrs for LP 2/2s. I’m just sick of the suburbs.
Good Dan – I would just rent. I know that’s out of the comfort zone of a lot of long time homeowners, but given a bunch of factors, I’d rent. Doesn’t have to be an apartment – there are plenty of condos to rent.
Thanks, Anonny. Is that because you think now is a bad time to buy and things could go lower? I’ve definitely thought of renting, believe me, but some of the units, even condo rentals, look to be in pretty poor shape compared with those actually for sale.
” It’s not under 25%. It’s closer to 40% now. They only need about 40% to break even. Marriott just reopened their big hotel on the Mag Mile, which is a sign they know demand is on the rise. Also, JJ, most are thinking well beyond the next 6 months. If you’re opening a luxury hotel in the Vista, you are thinking 10 to 20 YEARS down the line. Look at the builders”
The occupancy rates for “luxury hotel” rooms in Chicago is < 25% not 40%, so you are wrong — Sabrina. The Marriott Mag Mile was built in 1978 and is NOT considered luxury by any means. It is fully depreciated and it has the most powerful loyalty program in the world behind it. To launch an independent new brand in Chicago such as Wanda, Mandarin, Shangri La in 2020-2021, with no visibility as to when tourism, business travel, convention travel from Asia will resume seems ill timed at best. Investors have minimum return hurdles to meet and invest long-term. The Palmer House Hilton is closed and in foreclosure with JPMorgan. IT will be interesting to see the outcome of the Palmer House sale and what it sells for on a per room price, as there will be a lot of price discovery for hotel valuations.
JJ Quit being so sexist
If Sabrina says that its at 40%, then you can bet your bottom $ that its at least 40%.
/s
Like I mentioned earlier Gov FatFuck would love to close down the O’Hare/McC/DT Regency properties.
Hell they’re operating as a quasi-Brothel to keep the lights on.
But hell yeah, lets go ahead and start building out 5Star hotels…
“CDC only estimates up to 2/3 the 200,000 excess deaths”
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
First, CDC provides an estimated range of 224,173 to 299,028 excess deaths.
Second, the range estimate of the “not COVID” is 32,478 – 100,947, which means as high as 85% and as low as ~2/3.
Third, this is only for those deaths where a Death Cert has been sent to CDC, which has a significant time lag in many parts of the country–as much as 2 months.
Fourth, the actual current numbers CDC is using are the lower ones from both ranges–meaning that as of right now, CDC is estimating that 85% of the excess deaths are COVID.
“I believe this pandemic will permanently change the Loop, as well as people’s perspectives of what is safe, and what they want in a home.”
I disagree. Big cities have soldiered on – even thrived – all over the world for literally centuries. Through pandemics, natural disasters, civil unrest, political corruption, wars, financial meltdowns, and so on. Athens, Rome, New York, San Francisco, Bangkok, London, Washington, D.C — all keep on keepin’ on. *People* have made this happen. Downtown Chicago will hurt in the near term, but will bounce back.
lol hotels are completely fucked for the foreseeable future
too much debt and leverage and now not enough cash flow
https://www.mingtiandi.com/real-estate/outbound-investment/chinas-richest-man-gets-a-700m-assist-from-ping-an-for-chicago-skyscraper/
With Dalian Wanda exiting Vista, it will be interesting to see if Ping An Bank in China will desire to maintain a banking relationship with Magallan in Chicago long term.
As hotel values have declined 20% – 35% over the past year, the repayment of the $700MM construction loan will be carefully watched by the Ping An team.
“I’ve definitely thought of renting, believe me, but some of the units, even condo rentals, look to be in pretty poor shape compared with those actually for sale.”
That’s generally true, it’s just going to take you some leg work and luck (and know that the place won’t be as nice as most places for sale, nor will you be able to update it to your tastes). In the spring of 2008, we went to Chicago to find a 2 bedroom to rent. Looked at a bunch of crappy apartments and maybe a dozen condos over the course of a few days. On the first day, we almost rented a condo in a highrise off the Viagra Triangle (building has been discussed on here before). We were glad that we didn’t do so, because on the second day, we saw a condo above the Best Buy on Clark in LP that we really liked (didn’t have the views of the highrise, but was spacious, newer, and had a garage space). But on the third day, when we were literally on our way to sign a lease on the Best Buy place, we got a call back from a broker who had listed a condo on Craigslist (he had helped his clients buy the place, and I think was handling the rental for a small fee). That condo was a 2/2 in the Marlborough, facing the park, with a basic kitchen update (granite and stainless) and otherwise just a new coat of paint. Rented it instead, and once we moved to the neighborhood, we realized what a mistake it would have been to live on that stretch of Clark! The Marlborough place was amazing, and I think we paid rent in the low two thousands (paid a couple hundred for parking in the highrise to the south). We stayed there for a 2.5 years. Unless they had put a huge amount down, the condo unit owner was losing money. My sense is that there will be more of such condo unit owners over the next several months, you just have to find one.
What are you seeing in NW side neighborhoods? I live near the Rockwell Brown Line. My place appraised for $475 in March when I refinanced. My neighbors are looking to sell their 3/2 (Exact same condo as mine), their realtor is telling them to list for $425 if they want to sell. I purchased my place for that price 4 years ago. It seems low to me, but condo real estate in Lincoln Square appears to be changing rapidly (and not in a good way).
Thanks, Anonny. Good advice. We’re not in a hurry, but we did see a 1BR condo we liked a lot and I’m thinking about inquiring whether the seller would be interested in renting it instead.
“What are you seeing in NW side neighborhoods? I live near the Rockwell Brown Line.”
Tom C: As Dennis Rodkin is reporting in Crain’s, it’s neighborhood by neighborhood, property type by property type.
What’s the inventory like in Lincoln Square? If there’s not much on the market, why list low? Buyers ARE out there.
“The occupancy rates for “luxury hotel” rooms in Chicago is < 25% not 40%, so you are wrong" Have you been on the conference calls JJ? I have. The occupancy rates are MUCH higher than everyone thought (pleasantly surprised). Although in some areas more than others which is why Marriott waited until last week to reopen on the Mag Mile. It needed to see sustained interest at nearby properties before spending the money on that reopening. Breakeven for most hotel chains is about 30% occupancy. Of course, depends on what else the customer can spend money on in the hotel such as restaurants, bars etc. All these businesses think YEARS ahead of time. They really don't care about COVID this year. Same with the big restaurant chains. It hasn't changed anything in their strategy about where to put restaurants moving forward etc. As long as they have the cash to survive the next 6 months, of course. This is why they have suspended dividends, buybacks, laid off personnel and won't be bringing them back. Also why they kept certain properties closed longer than others. But with the Marriott reopening, Chicago hotels have to be at least 95% reopened now. It was one of the last holdouts. Those with excess debt will be in trouble. The Roosevelt Hotel in NYC just closed permanently and it was open for decades. Much like the Palmer House.
“Trying again: Does anyone have any educated opinions on the market for high rise LP 2/2s? Are prices going lower? Is inventory as bad as in Loop/River North? Stupid to buy now?”
Dan #2: Can’t you check the inventory yourself?
It’s pretty easy to see what’s happening in each building. Look at what is on the market in the building. Look at how many units in the building have sold in the last year. Let’s say 10 are on the market but over the last year only 10 have sold. It’s going to take a while to sell all 10 of those condos.
But if 10 are on the market and 30 sold in the last year, then it’s likely not going to take that long to sell.
Every building is going to be different. Also will depend on location, amenities, assessments, views etc.
Does the building have a lot of older owners who have suddenly decided to retire to Florida? Or is a building popular with Millennial first time buyers?
Too many variables Dan #2.
It’s not like the Chicago housing market is collapsing, or even declining, citywide like in 2008.
Downtown condos are weak. High rise condos in other neighborhoods are weak too (because of Covid issues and people not wanting to get into elevators etc.)
Single family homes are on fire.
First time buyer homes/condos are hot.
Properties with outdoor space are hot.
Suburban homes are hot due to covid and work from home.
“But go on virtue signaling your wokeness and rule following.”
Poor marko. Just doesn’t understand science.
Record daily deaths in Wisconsin this week. Hospitals maxed out. Nurses exhausted. 6 hospitals in Mississippi with no ICU beds available. Heaven help them if they get more patients. What then?
But go on believing its “fake.” Please.
The second wave is here. It’s pretty obvious. We’re all going to be in a bad place by November.
And it didn’t have to be this way if we only had real leadership. Like other countries. If only we had listened to Dr. Fauci and Birx.
“I just tried emailing you a couple of feature suggestions but the email bounced. I guess that email address for you no longer works and I don’t see one listed on the site anymore.”
It should be working again Gary.
Try:
cribchatter@yahoo.com
“I can privately send you some properties that have languished. We can have a lot of fun discussing why they are sitting and what price they will ultimately sell for.”
I already do this Gary. Most of the properties I cover have been on the market longer, which is why I can crib about them.
“Obviously Nike will be ok but what about the owner of a small dry cleaner or coffee shop in the loop?”
Lauren, have you been to the loop and looked around?
It’s pretty clear what is happening.
“Cause Gov Fat Fuck didn’t think the stay at home order applied to him and his family?”
Your anger, in addition to your sexism, is really sad JohnnyU.
If there is anyone who thought the rules didn’t apply to him it is the President. He hasn’t been tested in months. They had NO idea he had it.
The incompetence.
JohnnyU, why don’t you call the President the same derogatory term? They are both of similar weight.
“ Your anger, in addition to your sexism, is really sad JohnnyU.”
If you’re not angry with .gov you’re not paying attention, benefiting or dumb
Is it sexist to call Pritzker a fat fuck? Did he just start identifying as female?
“JohnnyU, why don’t you call the President the same derogatory term? They are both of similar weight.“
Trump is over weight bordering on fat. 6’-3 3bills
Pritzker is a fat fuck/morbidly obese 5’-6 3 bills
Hillary is overweight bordering on fat
Kristi Noem is thin
See the difference?
We’re not in a hurry, but we did see a 1BR condo we liked a lot and I’m thinking about inquiring whether the seller would be interested in renting it instead.
Speaking as a landlord, I would suggest offering to sign a multi-year lease. If you can convince them they won’t have the hassle of trying to re-list relatively soon, they may be more willing to consider it.
Sabrina –
In Lincoln Square, it depends on the sections. Where I am, north of Lawrence, west of Western, east of California, there are a lot of vintage condos. Housing stock is primarIly 4 unit condo buildings. I have something in between vintage and modern. I would say you either get that or vintage. 2/2s and 2/1s have been going fast over here, but are priced modestly. Primarily $300 and under. Due to how old the buildings are, many leave a little to be desired – lack of parking space, smaller bathrooms, etc.
3/2 are a different story out here. Prior to the pandemic, newer, modern one are being built on Lawrence Ave seemEd to be selling quick, for over $500k. Seems crazy to me because who wants to live on Lawrence Avenue? 3/2s not located only the busy road, are similar to mine, in between vintage and modern. Take a look at 4927 N Washtenaw and 5007 N California to get a feel. These appear to have come down quite a bit in price. The 5007 sold for $445k. 4927 is selling between $400 to $420. My neighbor cannot get hers appraised for over $430.
“If only we had listened to Dr. Fauci and Birx.”
Fauci’s flip-flop on masks helped create distrust people have for science authorities. Also, early on democratic legislators fiddled away on a failed impeachment effort, which hindered both their own and Trump’s Covid response as it became mired in politics.
So for me it is hard to see how the response would have been significantly different since both Red Team and Blue Team are more interested in taking care of the donor class than voters.
“Fauci’s flip-flop on masks helped create distrust people have for science authorities.”
Wrong. Dr. Fauci is still considered the leading authority on the virus even as the President tries to discredit him.
Imagine if Trump had come out full-throat on Dr. Fauci’s side in March? Imagine it then?
The failure falls squarely on the President. And it’s why he’s going to get blown out in less than 3 weeks.
The impeachment was already over.
“Trump is over weight bordering on fat. 6’-3 3bills”
Ba ha ha ha.
Sure Jan.
And, of course, just to continue being sexist you have to bring up Hillary.
Sad man, JohnnyU. You and HH need to hang out. Neither one of you lives in Chicago. Both sexist. Both extremely angry.
The impeachment was already over.
Covid was forcing China to lock down cities while Trump’s impeachment was the major story in January and early February. Trump was forced to focus on addressing this threat to his survival instead of preparing for an unquantified threat from China.
I surely can criticize Trump’s efforts to prepare us for the pandemic, but the one thing he did do to stop the virus’s spread to the United States during the ongoing impeachment — restricting air travel from China — was heavily criticized. Even Biden criticized it as “hysterical xenophobia.”
Given the partisan vituperation at the time, Trump acting decisively in February most likely would have resulted in his being accused of manufacturing a crisis to distract the public from impeachment. Now that we are suffering from that month’s relative inaction, he is being accused of not acting sooner.
Here is a Fauci quote from a March interview on 60 Minutes, when you say Trump should have been following his recommendations in a “full-throated” manner:
“Right now, in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks,”
“over weight bordering on fat. 6’-3 3bills”
6’3″ and 300lb = 37.5 BMI.
5’6″ 300lbs = 48.4 BMI
“an adult individual who has a BMI of 30 – 40 is considered obese and over 40 as morbidly obese.”
Neither are good, but 37.5 is better than 48.4
They can both be fat.
Just like two houses can be laughably overpriced–that one is more laughable doesn’t make the other ‘bordering on’ overpriced.
And a BMI of 37.5 on a non-power-athlete is decidedly ‘fat’.
I surely can criticize Trump’s efforts to prepare us for the pandemic, but the one thing he did do to stop the virus’s spread to the United States during the ongoing impeachment — restricting air travel from China — was heavily criticized. Even Biden criticized it as “hysterical xenophobia.”
At least you said restricting, but…
Trump’s “travel ban” was ridiculous and *was* xenophobic. The ONLY people prevented from entering the US were non-US citizens flying directly from China. US citizens could (and did!) fly to and from China. Non-US citizens could (and did!)connect via another country and come into the US. There was absolutely no contact tracing done on these groups who WERE allowed to enter the country. It was ridiculous (did nothing to stop the spread) and xenophobic (only applied to foreigners).
Trump was forced to focus on addressing this threat to his survival instead of preparing for an unquantified threat from China.
Anyone unable to focus on 2 ongoing issues at the same time is unqualified to be POTUS.
I’ll move Trump into the Obese column and keep Gov Fatfuck in the morbidly obese column
“Right now, in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks,”
Why do people keep bringing this up? Here is the full quote: “The masks are important for someone who’s infected to prevent them from infecting someone else… Right now in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks.”
That first sentence is key and is the reason that we need everyone wearing masks now. Also, that was a March 8 interview and things weren’t totally out of control then. His full statement was valid at the time and still make sense.
GL: Here is the full quote: “The masks are important for someone who’s infected to prevent them from infecting someone else… Right now in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks.”
Seems Fauci forgot to explain how we were supposed to know who was infected, considering the inadequate testing we were also dealing with at the time. He was also ignoring science about aerosol transmission.
Chinese scientists were warning that rona may be airborne in early February. U.S. exports of PPE to China skyrocketed in January and February, leaving us short of supplies. Was Fauci paying any attention to PPE supplies or was he too busy trying to prevent panic?
6’3? and 300lb = 37.5 BMI
But Trump is not 6’3″.
Look at the pictures of his inauguration; he is shorter than Obama (6″1′), and Obama doesn’t wear heels/lifts like Trump does.
Trump’s most likely 6′(or less), so BMI greater than 40.
I don’t understand why people are attacking Sabrina so vehemently. It’s not like she is stupid enough to say that Bucktown goes South of Armitage.
“Seems Fauci forgot to explain how we were supposed to know who was infected, considering the inadequate testing we were also dealing with at the time.”
On March 8 I don’t think the virus was widespread enough to warrant everyone walking around with masks. Personally, we were because we just wanted to be careful.
“He was also ignoring science about aerosol transmission. Chinese scientists were warning that rona may be airborne in early February.”
That was a fear. It was not confirmed at that time.
“U.S. exports of PPE to China skyrocketed in January and February, leaving us short of supplies. Was Fauci paying any attention to PPE supplies or was he too busy trying to prevent panic?”
Trump was the one concerned about panic. And I don’t think Fauci was managing the nation’s PPE supply. However, Pence was in charge of the task force so what the hell was he doing?
Given where Europe is now in this pandemic I think it’s a bit much to blame the Trump administration for their pandemic response.
To do so is willful ignorance of a government’s limits in fighting a highly contagious pathogen. And any hypotheticals are just that: guesses that can’t be quantified.
You can vote for the other guy for a whole host of valid reasons, but you’re kidding yourself if its for perceived pandemic response failures.
I don’t expect a vaccine to be widely available to everyone until Q3 of next year so for normal people that aren’t healthcare professionals, first responders or those at most risk, that’s almost a year for a vaccine. Which itself might not even be 100% effective but maybe halfway.
People here trying to rewrite history to make Trump look good (a very hard job indeed) and Fauci look bad are twisting the facts.
Yes, Fauci advised Americans not to wear masks early on in the crisis.
He did that for a very good reason: There was a shortage of masks at the time and they were desperately needed by the medical community. He didn’t want the people who needed them most to go without.
But don’t let the facts get in the way of your partisan BS. You never do.
Having said that, I also agree Trump isn’t entirely responsible for the problems with the pandemic. Other countries, too, continue to suffer despite some taking more steps early on to fight it.
I am convinced if Trump had taken it more seriously early on and told the public what he knew (as he told Woodward) instead of trying not to alarm people (his excuse recently for not making these concerns public), maybe some of the damage could have been mitigated.
A president owes it to the public to be upfront on questions of public safety. Few here probably remember (and it was years before I was born), but when JFK found out there were Soviet missiles in Cuba being aimed at us, he didn’t try to sell Americans any happy BS story about how everything was great.
He went on TV and gave a long, serious speech outlining the problem and explaining his plans to counter it. He knew people would be scared out of their minds, but he judged Americans as being serious and smart enough to understand the problem and deal with it maturely.
Trump isn’t the kind of leader who has any capacity to do that, or to think beyond his own interests. I can’t remember any president in my lifetime who lacked this capacity. When 9/11 happened, I remember W. Bush treating us as adults to explain what was happening, and also maturely pointing out that though Muslim criminals committed the acts, we shouldn’t disrespect the religion itself or the vast majority of innocent Muslims. Does anyone here seriously believe Trump would have said anything that adult in those circumstances?
We need an adult as president.
There were people with a panicked look on their faces clutching the biggest sized toilet paper they could find in the grocery stores. I largely blame the media as this virus is over 99% survivable and 99.9% survivable if you are under 60. I remember right when the lockdowns hit people were freaking the fuck out & am glad they weren’t more alarmed.
No he’s not an adult in many ways, but I’m glad my concerns were limited to managing my TP stock and not bigger concerns from those panic days.
“Given where Europe is now in this pandemic I think it’s a bit much to blame the Trump administration for their pandemic response.”
There is some fundamental shit he just blew:
Even now he’s claiming we are turning the corner while cases are skyrocketing. WTF?
He actually has discouraged people from wearing a mask. WTF?
No national testing and contact tracing strategy. WTF?
No national PPE manufacturing and distribution strategy. WTF?
Continues to hold superspreader events. WTF?
Undermines the credibility of his own health experts. WTF?
Routinely spreads misinformation. WTF?
“Yes, Fauci advised Americans not to wear masks early on in the crisis.
He did that for a very good reason: There was a shortage of masks at the time and they were desperately needed by the medical community. He didn’t want the people who needed them most to go without.”
Sorry, but not good enough. Instead of explaining why we were so unprepared to deal with a pandemic, Fauci lied for the greater good, to conserve PPE for health care workers. This was during a critical period before Covid spread into the community, and stood as a hindrance to the public health response. The fact that he not only did not promote wearing masks, but actively discouraged their use is inexcusable, imo.
I was ordering N-95s in February, glad I had some to send to my dental student daughter since her school was not providing sufficient PPE for her clinical exposure. I didn’t wait for Fauci to let me know it was time to pay attention.
Not letting Trump off the hook, he is a joke, but it wasn’t racism that got him elected. It was voter disgust with our political system in general. Joe Biden doesn’t change anything.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/10/16/who-elected-donald-trump/
Trump got elected because something he was saying strongly appealed to 5, 6, 7 – whatever the number is – voting groups.
Wanted lower taxes? Vote for Trump
Hated government regulation? Vote for Trump
Hated political correctness? Vote for Trump
Loved guns? Vote for Trump
Hated abortion? Vote for Trump
Wanted manufacturing jobs back? Vote for Trump
Wanted to stop illegal immigration? Vote for Trump
The list goes on. Probably few people wanted the whole package but enough people wanted one of those things badly enough that nothing else mattered. His qualifications never mattered. His character never mattered to those people. They were going to get something they cared deeply about.
“Fauci lied for the greater good, to conserve PPE for health care workers.”
He never lied. It wasn’t clear that homemade masks, i.e. those not N-95, would help people, in March. And yes, there weren’t enough N-95s to go around.
Shockingly, there STILL are not enough even though 3M is now making 95 million of them. This is why Biden is wearing an extra mask over his N-95 because it preserves the N-95 for future uses.
And I really don’t give a damn what our experts were telling us in March. It’s months later. We have so much more information now. Is he telling people not to wear masks today? Um…no.
Only one person is saying that and we all know who he is. The outbreak is really bad in Europe and it’s coming to the US next. We aren’t prepared for it medically or psychologically because the President is out there saying we’ve rounded the corner. His lies are just too much now. The rest of us live in the real world.
“Even now he’s claiming we are turning the corner while cases are skyrocketing. WTF?”
Yep. This is the worst of all. And there are people out there still calling this a hoax.
So many more will die than need to. The darkest period of this entire pandemic is about to hit us and the President is still out there lying about it.
“I largely blame the media as this virus is over 99% survivable and 99.9% survivable if you are under 60.”
This is a stupid argument and it’s shameful people keep making it.
How many Americans ARE over 60?
Last I checked, they made up the second largest generation in US history.
Also, the death rate at the beginning of the pandemic was much higher due to the hospitals getting overwhelmed and the medical profession not knowing the best ways to treat it.
The Baby Boomer generation. That’s a lot of people to just walk away from.
“I am convinced if Trump had taken it more seriously early on and told the public what he knew (as he told Woodward) instead of trying not to alarm people (his excuse recently for not making these concerns public), maybe some of the damage could have been mitigated.”
Maybe?
Look at New Zealand. Look at Germany. Both have good leadership.
We have no contact tracing. We have “free will” and “personal responsibility.” There is no way for them to know where the virus is circulating. All we know now is that it is everywhere. Literally.
Huge outbreak is about to come in the United States. Prayers for everyone.
And unfortunately we will still have the this incompetent Administration for several more months.
“Given where Europe is now in this pandemic I think it’s a bit much to blame the Trump administration for their pandemic response.”
If he had done one thing. Just one. If he had told people to wear masks and made it mandatory for federal buildings and workers.
If only.
But no.
So Republican governors continue to not require masks even as they beg their residents to wear them. And the virus is circulating freely everywhere now.
“The ONLY people prevented from entering the US were non-US citizens flying directly from China. US citizens could (and did!) fly to and from China.”
Lol.
40,000 US citizens flew in from China during the “ban” on flights in. It WAS xenophobic. The “ban” was assuming that only Chinese could have the virus.
It was only when the big US airlines decided to cancel ALL flights because their pilots and flight attendants didn’t think it was safe and were revolting did the flights stop.
It had nothing to do with Trump. The airlines are what caused the shutdown.
Meanwhile, the President continued to allow flights from Italy into the United States even as the outbreak there was clear. Thousands flew in over the course of several weeks.
It was a complete disaster and did nothing to stem the pandemic.