Market Conditions: Will Dog Walkers and New Finishes Make the Difference in the South Loop?
As promised, Crain’s reported a couple of days ago that Related bought out the remaining units in three South Loop towers after the developer lost them to the bank.
They are:
- One Museum Park West (1201 S. Prairie): 238 units
- 1600 Museum Park (1629 S. Prairie): 98 units
- Museum Park Place South (1901 S. Calumet): 157 units
Unlike other buyers, Related doesn’t intend to convert them into rentals. Instead, it is going to sell them.
And it’s NOT going to sharply reduce prices.
To spur sales in the depressed market, many developers have cut prices—some by as much as 30 percent—an option that would make Related’s buildings more competitive, Ms. Lissner says. “I think they need to look at re-pricing the properties in light of current price levels,” she says.
Related has yet to set prices on its condos, but Mr. Bailey says the firm doesn’t plan big-time discounts. He thinks it can boost demand by fixing up units with high-end finishes and fixtures, sprucing up common areas and adding amenities, such as dog grooming and dog walkers. “There will be no fire sale,” he says.
Working in Related’s favor is a shrinking supply of unsold downtown condos because of a lack of development and conversion of many buildings to apartments. Developers were sitting on 1,422 unsold units at the end of the first quarter, down some 85 percent from more than 8,200 in 2008, according to Appraisal Research.
Though downtown developers sold just 770 condos last year, Mr. Bailey notes that annual new-condo sales have averaged about 2,700 units since 1990. “We think we’re going to get back to that 2,700 units very soon,” he says. “It would only have to return to a level of normalcy for all the product available to be absorbed in under a year.”
And is this an out-of-town developer who doesn’t “get” the Chicago market? (Related is a New York company)
Or will a lack of inventory for “new” condos mean these could actually sell for higher price points with fancier kitchens?
Developer Related Cos. Wagers on South Loop [Crain’s Chicago Business, Alby Gallun, July 2, 2012]
“Working in Related’s favor is a shrinking supply of unsold downtown condos because of a lack of development and conversion of many buildings to apartments. Developers were sitting on 1,422 unsold units at the end of the first quarter, down some 85 percent from more than 8,200 in 2008, according to Appraisal Research.”
That’s right because the new condo segment competes in a separate and distinct area separate from used condos and used condos or apartment units would never have any sort of impact on new condos whatsoever. 😀
I have been saying this for so many years on this site – real estate is not going to stay “down” forever. Prices ARE starting to go up, sales ARE starting to inch up – and they are likely NOT going to go down in the next decade or two (until the next bubble). There IS money to be made (not a killing like in the early/mid 2000s) – but people WILL be able to make profits in real estate. The market will look completely different in 2015-2016 (which is only 3-4 years away). The bottom has passed (and even if we are boucing around near the bottom – the sharks have been alerted and any individual is pretty much out of luck in terms of getting a GREAT deal out there). Sorry – but you should have listened to me last year……
We’ll have to see but my guess is along with the nicer finishes and amenities will come some price cuts. There is a difference between price cuts and a fire sale which they deny. It may take a while but I think these units will eventually be bought up. Maybe miu will finally get her place!
On a different thought…museum park place and mmp south are UGLY @ss buildings! I agreed with the Trib when it dubbed them “Ticky Tacky Toe”
My beef with them was the tacky finishes. Apart from killer views they were white box rentals.
“Prices ARE starting to go up…”
Really? Where?
Everything I see selling is going for 2000-2003 prices. Those properties are selling fast. Everything priced at 2007-2008 is mainly just sitting there.
Please provide examples of prices going “up” in the city of Chicago.
On another note, I suddenly came down with a nasty sickness yesterday so there will only be two posts today. Sorry for those of you bored in the afternoon.
It may be the same for Friday. We’ll see how I feel later today. But if I can’t keep my eyes open, then there will only be two posts tomorrow as well.
Companies like Related exist because they make deals. When they stop making deals then there’s no reason to even have the company. With that in mind, Related scanned the marketplace and made this ‘deal’ based upon what was available. Right now there are few if any good ‘deals’ so companies like Related are forced to take riskier/risky positions – such as going long the south loop condo market. I sure hope they have a better plan than “boost(ing) demand by fixing up units with high-end finishes and fixtures, sprucing up common areas and adding amenities, such as dog grooming and dog walkers. “ That plan is basically throwing more good money at the bad. But, this guy has to justify his job and if he’s not making deals then he’s without his job. To many people, a bad deal is better than no deal at all.
I hope you feel better Sabrina. the culprit is usually one of two things: the sangria or the potato salad!
Also of interest:
Despite record low mortgage rates, applications for purchase loans are actually DOWN 7% from last year (according to the WSJ). But if sales are up that indicates, to me, that there are a lot of cash buyers in the game (mainly investors.) That’s not a “normal” market- by any means.
I hope you are feeling better Sabrina! I’m feeling awful too, but I am pretty sure it is just allergies….which makes no sense to me since everything is dead with this heat and lack of rain. 🙁
“On another note, I suddenly came down with a nasty sickness yesterday so there will only be two posts today. Sorry for those of you bored in the afternoon.
It may be the same for Friday. We’ll see how I feel later today. But if I can’t keep my eyes open, then there will only be two posts tomorrow as well.”
“I hope you feel better Sabrina. the culprit is usually one of two things: the sangria or the potato salad!”
Normally, I would say you would be right HD but I started getting sick yesterday morning before eating/drinking anything (sore throat, tightening of the chest etc.) It wasn’t “bad” food because I didn’t eat anything yesterday (except some ice cream.) I’ve completely lost my appetite. Ugh.
Hopefully it goes away quickly. It’s not right to get a cold/flu in the summer!
Related bought LR Development a while ago. Related Midwest has a large presence in Chicago. The company knows what it is doing.
Yes, I hope Related understands the Chicago market is not NY. NYers will pay for designer cabinetry, tile and finshings. To most Chicagoans, a cabinet is a cabinet….anything beyond home depot is a waste. No sense of style here. And, as to those few Chicagoans who know the difference between Home Depot/Builder’s Supply and Christopher Peacock, Arclinea, and Verrenna, they won’t venture out of GC, Streeterville and LP. They are afraid….
“Everything I see selling is going for 2000-2003 prices. Those properties are selling fast. Everything priced at 2007-2008 is mainly just sitting there. ”
Your sickness is affecting your thinking…..of course prices are starting to increase – it starts on the coasts and moves centrally!! There are price wars and multiple over-listing price offer wars occurring on the east and west coasts. I know that real estate is regional, but usually the trend is the same.
Doesn’t this effectively mean that Related got them for pennies on the dollar, if even that much?
”
Unable to pay back their construction loans, the developers agreed to a “deed-in-lieu of foreclosure,” voluntarily handing the unsold condos over to a lender group led by Bank of America Corp., which brought in Related as a partner to finish the projects.”
I don’t know about house price timing, but rents sure seem to be going up. If that continues, sooner or later that will start to push more people towards ownership, as that’s how it all started in Lake View- my mom had renters who just said “why would I pay as much for rent as I would for a condo mortgage?”
Now, it’s true said people often weren’t thinking long term, and the flipping bubble eventually crashed, as all bubbles must – BUT, I don’t see twenty-somethings with few economic responsibilities getting any smarter/wiser any time soon.
btw, I now fully appreciate why Sabrina always says “people want new and are willing to pay a premium for it.”
Although our gut rehab is going marvelously, getting all of our ducks in a row were a boatload of work and aggravation, not helped one bit by the chaos in the financial industry. I’m sure my laughter sounded both cynical and outraged when I had our lender say “you guys are missing a document from your last ref, WAMU should have sent…”
As if there was going to be anything I could hold WAMU accountable for!
Another reason people will pay a premium for “new” is because when you renovate, not only do you have to do a ridiculous amount of work and go through the aggravation of living through construction, but you also end up paying cash for the renovation (home improvement loans/ home equity loans are hard to come by). Nobody wants that when you can roll this into a mortgage (by buying new).
As someone who has spent the last 2 weeks without a bathroom and largely without power – yes renovations suck. Especially when you find yourself with a hand-spray shower crouched under a slanted ceiling in the “attic bathroom” of your bungalow.
Yes, renovations suck…but these new condos won’t be competing with your fixer-upper bungalow in Albany Park, they will be competing against other nearly new condos in the south loop which may need painting, etc. but are unlikely to need massive renovations.
Admittedly, having to do nothing demands a premium over even having to do minor work, but not nearly as large a premium as over large renovations.
“but these new condos won’t be competing with your fixer-upper bungalow in Albany Park, they will be competing against other nearly new condos in the south loop which may need painting, etc. but are unlikely to need massive renovations.”
I think it’s more like these condos will be competing against condos with white or black appliances and whatever lighting fixtures and cabinets were in style a decade ago. The layman/naive new first time buyer doesn’t realize how easy it is to fix that, they just see latest and greatest and want it.
BTW: I’ve noticed that more new listings have french door fridges (one draw on bottom). How long until the French door with two doors along the bottom become the standard?
Speaking of renovations, my condo neighbor hired a guy to put in new floors. They were all set to start when the guy discovered that the builders built the wall frames above the existing floors and not on the subfloor. The guy told him if he removed the existing floor, the walls would fall. Does this sound valid? Has anyone heard of anything like this and is there a fix?
Icarus, woudl it be possible (I know, not ideal) to either buiold the floor on top of the existing, or cut the floor up to the wall, leaving it rest on the old part? I have not idea if these are workable solutions and am not a contractor they are just questions I would ask myself in weighing my options…
“are unlikely to need massive renovations.” Likely true – although I only thought we would change the tile. and put in some nicer faucets. Amazing how these things snowball when you walk into the SUPER BATH DESIGNERZ SHOWROOM!!!!
‘The guy told him if he removed the existing floor, the walls would fall.’
Most likely the case – maybe not fall, but they would certainly crack. And, if these walls are load bearing (meaning they hold up whats above them), then you’d have *major* structural problems. A reputable flooring installer would remove the baseboard, and then cut out the existing floor along the base as not to disturb the old flooring that the walls sit and rely on for support. The new flooring is then butted up against the old (the thickness of the new boards have to be the same as the old), the floors are finished and then the baseboard is reinstalled which hides the seam. It’s no different than your kitchen cabinets really; would/could you remove the flooring underneath the base cabinets (as all cabinets sit on a finished floor) and expect them to just hang there while you install new floors under them? How could you nail down wood floors or adhere stone underneath them anyway… considering that you’re most likely working with a 3/4″ gap?
Living in a 138 year old house that had witnessed its share of previous renovations, I can assure you that I’ve seen it all (mostly by painful default), including this.
formerroscoevillager, sure if you don’t mind having to step down into your bathroom or kitchen since those are tiled. Perhaps cutting the board to the wall would work.
Do you feel you are getting your monies worth with the bathroom reno?
“Also of interest:
Despite record low mortgage rates, applications for purchase loans are actually DOWN 7% from last year (according to the WSJ). But if sales are up that indicates, to me, that there are a lot of cash buyers in the game (mainly investors.) That’s not a “normal” market- by any means.”
They defintely are all cash. The average Joe can’t get the appraisal to come in at the amount they need so the rates could be as low as 1% and it wouldn’t do any good. Until that is fixed, it will stay that way.
Doesn’t a low appraisal make a property easier to qualify for? Or are you referring to people who are underwater and can’t trade up for a new home?
“The average Joe can’t get the appraisal to come in at the amount they need so the rates could be as low as 1% and it wouldn’t do any good. Until that is fixed, it will stay that way.”
I mean for refinances, my bad.
Icarus, I was thinking something to the effect of what Jay laid out…
As far as the bathroom reno, we are gutting the thing but re-using the tub and sink because we really want ensure that the pipes are up to date (there is a 90 year old patchwork of copper, galvanized, and PVC back there) and bring in electrical. We had replaced the toilet in September so that’s staying too. I very delicately removed the sink and toilet for safe keeping then built a plywood cover for the tub then beat the holy hell out of the old plaster walls and jackhammered out the (3 inch thick!) concrete floor with the hex tiles. Thank God my dad is a carpenter and my FIL is a plummer. The priciest part of all this is replacing the window in the shower, an old wood framed original number – why that was considered a good idea in the first place, I will never know.
This all started because my wife had no place to plug in a hair dryer and I did not love the pink tiles. I am sure once all is said and done (and about 3-4k spent) we hope to find it all very worthwile…
Gotcha, and agreed 100%.
“I mean for refinances, my bad.”
“But, this guy has to justify his job and if he’s not making deals then he’s without his job. To many people, a bad deal is better than no deal at all.”
Very savvy statement there HD, that’s been a problem with RE Investment in general, the deal-junkies just crowd-out the sane investors, and these deal-junkies just pour more fuel onto the fire, blow up the bubble, incrementally more than what the Fed did with easy money. They go bust, but they put on their resumes: “did $1 billion of real estate transactions…blah blah blah”, and nobody really cares that they lost more capital than they returned, what matters is the deal-junkies just did the deals. Wash, rinse, repeat. Bill Gross from PIMCO says that when the people figure out that the Fed is buying all the UST bonds, they’ll rush to cash, and bonds and stocks will be hit, and what happens to all the proformas with RE Inv interest rates at 7% and above?
“Doesn’t a low appraisal make a property easier to qualify for?”
The problem is, low appraisals can make it harder to qualify. Example:
Property Selling for $200k.
Buyer is putting down 20%, for 160k mort.
Appraisal comes in at $180k.
In order for buyer to get to 20% equity, he would have to come up with about 16k on top of his 40k down payment.
In cases where the buyer is only putting down 5%, the 180k appraisal would likely kill the deal completely.
PS I wonder what Forest City’s 25 year IRR is on Central Station….
“In the South Loop, the firm plans to reposition the three projects, built by a joint venture of local developers Gerald Fogelson and Ronald Shipka Sr. and Cleveland-based Forest City Enterprises Inc. Unable to pay back their construction loans, the developers agreed to a “deed-in-lieu of foreclosure,” voluntarily handing the unsold condos over to a lender group led by Bank of America Corp., which brought in Related as a partner to finish the projects.”
First it was supposed to be office development, then the property sat for years….now this?
But hey, I suppose all the jobs this created, although non-lasting, based upon malinvestment and Fed-bubble derived, might have been better than a slow churn there?
off topic: Does anyone know if you can use an appraisal as part of a property tax appeal with Cook County?
“off topic: Does anyone know if you can use an appraisal as part of a property tax appeal with Cook County?”
Yes. I would also suggest using tax bills from similar homes to yours in the area.
off topic: Does anyone whats the most amount you can refinance LTV-wise these days? I would love to refinance, but am under water. If the place is worth what I think it is I have money in the bank I would be willing to use to cover the difference, I just need to know exactly how much I would need to come up with beyond that.
Fred, you can go up to 95% for conventional loans. If you qualify for HARP, then LTV typically doesn’t matter. It just depends on your specific situation.
Fred: call your bank and ask about HARP 2. It’s been pretty popular.
I closed after 5/31/2009 so I don’t qualify for HARP 2.0 unfortunately.
Fred, if that is the case, then you would be capped at 95%. Just take your outstanding balance and divide by .95%. This will tell you approximately where your appraisal needs to come in.
Russ – Yeah, my place isn’t worth anything near that. The math I was trying to find out was:
(Estimated Value – (Estimated Value * .95)) + (Amount Owed – Estimated Value) = Minimum check I would have to write to refinance
I was hoping that the .95 would be a little higher. Thanks for the info.
“They defintely are all cash. The average Joe can’t get the appraisal to come in at the amount they need so the rates could be as low as 1% and it wouldn’t do any good. Until that is fixed, it will stay that way.”
One of the groups that tracks the all cash purchases said Chicago was at a record high of 30.9%. In 2007 it was as low as 12%. (this is for the 13 county area that includes Kenosha, WI and 3 Indiana counties.)
So nearly a third of all purchases are all cash. That means investors are a huge part of the market.
“That means investors are a huge part of the market.”
And what does that mean?
Thx Jay, I had a feeling you probably either ran into something similar yourself or knew someone who had.
“Living in a 138 year old house that had witnessed its share of previous renovations, I can assure you that I’ve seen it all (mostly by painful default), including this.”
Thanks to you to formerroscoevillager and also, sounds like you have a textbook case of Scope Creep.
“This all started because my wife had no place to plug in a hair dryer and I did not love the pink tiles”
“And what does that mean?”
It’s not a normal market.
For instance, someone sent me a couple of multi-family buildings that sold recently in the GZ where the rents didn’t even come close to covering the cost of the building. Now maybe they’re going to tear them down and build a McMansion so they don’t care that it doesn’t cover the costs. That’s a possibility.
OK – I know I am about to set the cribchatter record for “thumbs down”, but here goes….
With all the crime occurring in Chicago (even in the best neighborhoods), it is absolutely irresponsible to raise kids in the city. There is absolutely no excuse for not providing a safe environment in which to raise your kids. Anyone who disagrees is living in fool’s paradise and is truly selfish – own it.
“such as dog grooming and dog walkers. “
It’s a great side amenity of being able to have your dog groomer in house in a couple of years from the same person who represented you on the sale.
Ahh clio with the old salesman schpeal of first talk up RE as a long-term investment then trash the city. Clio is that St. Charles McMansion still having trouble moving anywhere near your ask?
“There is absolutely no excuse for not providing a safe environment in which to raise your kids. ”
I actually agree with you on the truly bad neighborhoods. Don’t worry they’re rarely if ever featured here on CC. In fact I’d bet half the CC crowd has never been to one or even driven through it. But like that mother who resides in a bad neighborhood who lost her _second_ child to gun violence recently: what a selfish, selfish person. And you’re a fool if you believe there aren’t options to leave these extremely dangerous neighborhoods if there’s really a will.
Was it West Garfield Park or South Austin? I can’t tell. But even what many CCers consider mediocre neighborhoods at best like McKinley or Albany Park are worlds better for raising a family.
Bob, a pack of feral you-know-what 15 year olds just beat up a 21 year old man at 700 N. Dearborn. Clio is right, these days you cannot escape it, all the beaches too, all first-generation and current and illegal immigrants, no continuity around.
“Bob, a pack of feral you-know-what 15 year olds just beat up a 21 year old man at 700 N. Dearborn.”
That’s right near the red line Chicago stop. They’re ALWAYS around there en masse in any season but winter. That’s why that McDs is always staffed with at least one security guard, sometimes more. That they went feral in the heat is expected. Heck it probably happens frequently. ‘cept this time a white middle/upper class guy was the victim so it made the news.
Not nearly as shocking as the Wrigleyville guy who got his throat slashed if you ask me. Not even as shocking as the beach wildings we’ve seen in summers past. And actually haven’t heard of any yet in this heat this year.
Saying the city is going to hell in a handbasket is a common theme on here. In reality I think ever increasing taxes and a school system that doesn’t cater to average kids does more longer term to keep Chicago the city of the rich 1% haves and the 99% poor have nots for parents.
And let’s throw in some 2-20% upper middle class haves who are here as a weigh station in life and bail once kiddos come along and they realize they’re not really 1%ers even if they thought they were.
Yes killings and shootings are way up. But they’re not up in the neighborhoods featured on here. Heck I’d say statistically LV/LP/WP is overdue for a murder give it a month.
“all the beaches too, all first-generation and current and illegal immigrants,”
I have a friend whose hispanic origin but born and raised in Indiana hanging out at the beach with his daughter this past weekend. I jested him that it proved he was a true mexican for being able to stand this heat and I couldn’t join him. Truth is with them you can’t tell who the illegals are from appearance alone. Lake of white people at the beach might be due to the same reason I couldn’t go: we can’t stand the heat as well as them.
WGN’s report online:
“Residents are having a tough time believing all of this recent violence.
“It seems nowadays you’re kind of not safe anywhere in this area. For the rent to be this high, it’s supposed to be such a safe neighborhood. Not really that safe anywhere these days,” said one neighborhood resident.”
Bob, go visit Montrose Beach, North Ave beach etc. you can’t escape it. It’s not mexicans, it’s all immigrants, everywhere. Even 12th Street beach where you’d think there’d be some respite, it’s overrun. I’m talking Muslims in the full covered-woman garb in the water, Polish, Eastern European, Armenian, Kardashian wannabes, Indians, other random central asians speaking in accents of every description, more Polish, tons of mexicans of varying levels of legality, blacks. They’re selling elotes.
The locals and what we still might call Americans (you know, the type still into 4th of July parades etc. (now considered mere kitsch)) are in the overwhelming minority. Just an observation, that’s all. I should start putting it on youtube. It’s pointless trying to speak college-educated English to anybody. You’ll just get a “huh?”
“For the rent to be this high, it’s supposed to be such a safe neighborhood.”
You gotta love it when SWPL visions of safety evaporate.
Helmet you need to leave the city more often because the Americans you talk about are still the majority. You go to places like montrose beach and expect to see WASPs! All you choose to see are the unwashed masses. There are plenty of Americans but most of them left Chicago proper generations ago. Take a walk around Glencoe beach and it’s 10$ entrance fee for non-residents and show me the unwashed masses there.
“Truth is with them you can’t tell who the illegals are from appearance alone.”
Wow Bob your insight is amazing. Did you learn this nugget of wisdom in college? I’m surprised hardvard isn’t conferring honorary degrees upon you.
“You gotta love it when SWPL visions of safety evaporate.”
I’m with Bob on this one, which is not usually the case. It’s easy to look at the statistics. Most of the good neighborhoods are safer than ever. The increase in shootings and homicides is all in the usual horrible hoods.
“Most of the good neighborhoods are safer than ever. The increase in shootings and homicides is all in the usual horrible hoods.”
The police just issued an alert for the loop. Apparently, the robberies are happening between 11:30 pm and 2 am.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-07-05/news/chi-police-warn-of-looparea-robberies-20120705_1_downtown-attack-alert-warning-robberies
Sabrina, that happens all the time. Nothing new there.
One of my friends lives in the Loop. I don’t remember the last time they issued a crime alert for these kinds of attacks.
“Take a walk around Glencoe beach and it’s 10$ entrance fee for non-residents and show me the unwashed masses there.”
God bless the North Shore.
They issue them quite often actually. Did your friend just move to the Loop or did you just start paying attention?
Basically, the bottom line is the same: if you want safe for your kids (and can afford the 500-1000k prices that it costs for a decent house in a decent neighborhood – like LP/LV), why not just move to an ULTRA safe neighborhood in the suburbs with BETTER schools? In Lakeview, I see people with kids spending 500-1000k ALL the time – how do they shield or protect them from the RIDICULOUS nubmer of assaults, robberies, muggings, beatings, throat slashings and overall bad behavior that has become routine/regular for that area (especially around Boystown). These parents are absolutely irresponsible and selfish – period – and don’t you dare try to justify their behavior
“They issue them quite often actually. Did your friend just move to the Loop or did you just start paying attention?”
Really? Do you have any from say 2007 or 2008? Can you point to weekly news stories of mob actions by 10+ honor students attacking random people in GC/RN/Streeterville from say 5 years ago?
for clio:
http://www.urbanophile.com/2012/07/05/state-of-chicago-new-century-strengths/#comment-30013
btw, something like 17% of Chicago’s population is foreign-born, it’s a huge influx of energy and a colossal asset to our region.
Crime is down, the news/media reporting of it is up. This creates the perception that more crime is happening. Chicago is a major city and there will be crime – robberies, thefts, burglaries, and even murders. The only thing that seems to be new here is the feral packs of yutes running around, but that is probably driven by some weird combination of bored thugs and social media.
I recall many moons ago when I lived in Atlanta and the same stuff would happen at one of the luxury shopping malls in down town Atlanta that was right on the public transit line – Lenox Square in Buckhead. Packs of kids from the hood would ride the train up to the mall to hang out and inevitably, fights, etc happen. Nothing new. This was like 20 years ago.
District 001 or Loop and South Loop crime stats
https://portal.chicagopolice.org/portal/page/portal/ClearPath/News/Crime%20Statistics/5_pdfsam_week%2025.pdf
District 018 or Near North and most Lincoln Park
https://portal.chicagopolice.org/portal/page/portal/ClearPath/News/Crime%20Statistics/12_pdfsam_week%2025.pdf
Sorry, the previous stats are for Discrict 008 which is the SW side around Midway. Here is 18.
https://portal.chicagopolice.org/portal/page/portal/ClearPath/News/Crime%20Statistics/22_pdfsam_week%2025.pdf
I sort of agree with Clio but for different reasons: even a mile west of boystown is far safer, but a nice new SFH will set you back seven figures. Whereas compare that to Barrington and its barely over a third the price & you get land and no school headaches to boot. I guess I just don’t understand GZ SFH pricing.
“Take a walk around Glencoe beach and it’s 10$ entrance fee for non-residents and show me the unwashed masses there.”
That place is even worse, you know why? It’s hypocrite-central, the two-faced people who champion all the diversity, pretend to support “justice”, vote Democrat, are pro open borders, regale with stories about their Ellis Island ancestors fleeing persecution and seeing the Statue of Liberty, blah, blah, ad nauseum. What do these people do? They are the very worst self-segregating ethnicity in all of Chicagoland, period, and they don’t spend their time at Chicago beaches, because they can’t stand what they purportedly support. Let’s see all that diversity is a strength and anti-racism nonsense applied to Glencoe beach and the beaches of Tel Aviv. Good luck getting an open mind on it.
“You gotta love it when SWPL visions of safety evaporate.”
River North is sketchy late night, esp, on a cold Fall or Winter weeknight, you’d be smart to carry either a knife or some mace spray, if you’re out walking your pooch on the sidewalks, esp. those west of LaSalle. Now, it seems we have to be careful on weekends and festival nights too, even when people are around. I saw the video of the 700 N. Dearborn victim, he was obviously a hate crime target based upon his appearance and color of his skin. Too bad the victim wasn’t wearing a yarmulke then those flashmobbing kids would get a more severe penalty, because some people are have more civil rights and protection than others.
“I recall many moons ago when I lived in Atlanta and the same stuff would happen at one of the luxury shopping malls in down town Atlanta that was right on the public transit line – Lenox Square in Buckhead. Packs of kids from the hood would ride the train up to the mall to hang out and inevitably, fights, etc happen. Nothing new. This was like 20 years ago.”
Gee, that’s great Russ…..just bend over, suck it up and get used to it, it’s the new normal. Great message.
“it’s a huge influx of energy and a colossal asset to our region.”
No it’s not, open your eyes, look at the budgets. I hope you enjoy your property tax hike. Plus, it a net negative as compared to what they replace: all the American unborn due to feminism, abortion, homosexuality, contraception and the cost of having to raise (less) self-segregated children away from the “huge influx”. If the influx was such an asset, you wouldn’t see the people in places like Glencoe and LP etc. spending so much money to avoid it. (wow, lots of disinformation that needs rebutting lately)
“No it’s not, open your eyes, look at the budgets. I hope you enjoy your property tax hike. Plus, it a net negative as compared to what they replace: all the American unborn due to feminism, abortion, homosexuality, contraception and the cost of having to raise (less) self-segregated children away from the “huge influx”. If the influx was such an asset, you wouldn’t see the people in places like Glencoe and LP etc. spending so much money to avoid it. (wow, lots of disinformation that needs rebutting lately)”
Somebody needs to occupy the Rust Belt. As the boomers leave and the remaining domestic jobs move to more tax favorable places like the Southeast and Texas, who is going to live in Chicagoland?
New poster here. This is the first time I have seen a substantive discussion of crime on Crib Chatter, so I decided to comment. Until this thread, I was amazed at how divorced Crib Chatter seemed to be from Chicago News Report.
Why all the -1s for comments mentioning crime? Are those from real estate permabulls? I clearly see that my entire Crib Chatter commenting career will be in the DEEP negative.
Shorter helmethofer:
Vote Know-Nothing Party in 2012!
“Plus, it a net negative as compared to what they replace: all the American unborn due to feminism, abortion, homosexuality, contraception and the cost of having to raise (less) self-segregated children away from the “huge influx”. If the influx was such an asset, you wouldn’t see the people in places like Glencoe and LP etc. spending so much money to avoid it. (wow, lots of disinformation that needs rebutting lately)”
“Even 12th Street beach where you’d think there’d be some respite, it’s overrun. I’m talking Muslims in the full covered-woman garb in the water, Polish, Eastern European, Armenian, Kardashian wannabes, Indians, other random central asians speaking in accents of every description, more Polish, tons of mexicans of varying levels of legality, blacks. They’re selling elotes. ”
OH GOD THE HORROR!
“River North is sketchy late night, esp, on a cold Fall or Winter weeknight, you’d be smart to carry either a knife or some mace spray, if you’re out walking your pooch on the sidewalks, esp. those west of LaSalle. Now, it seems we have to be careful on weekends and festival nights too, even when people are around.”
LOL WHAT!
Like i said before Dan you are the smartest moron on the internet, or just a good troll
http://abcnews.go.com/US/mega-rich-foreigners-bring-heat-miamis-luxury-condo/story?id=16281222
Sabrina,
It looks like there has been a lot of cash buying going on in Miami too.
” These parents are absolutely irresponsible and selfish – period – and don’t you dare try to justify their behavior”
Clio is as American as apple pie and the 4th of July. Its good to have you back with your outlandish statements “daring” someone to reply. While I do not agree bravo at another silly rant! I had missed your crazy statements!
So as the airplane is landing the stewardess walks down the aisle spraying some spritzer of air freshener down the cabin and I’m thinking that after a 9 hour flight anyone walking onto this plane must probably think they are walking into a giant fart. But we are like the frog boiling slowly so we just simply don’t realize how bad it is. Never thought about this before. Well in 2 days I have to get on another long flight and I now am less excited by the trip.
Ze – good luck with the trip. Hope you make it thru customs with your stash of “supplies.”
Is there a basketball court on the roof and razor wire too to complete the urban prison look as well?
And each new owner gets a yoga book to cope with the stress once they realize that the purchase was the first step to financial ruin!
“Clio is as American as apple pie and the 4th of July”
Huh? I don’t get it…..
“Vote Know-Nothing Party in 2012”
LOL!! skeptic thinks he knows history…. yeah and where are the know-nothings today? You deserve their similar fate, obscurity. Pretty much everything they said has turned out to be true, even you can’t deny that.
“OH GOD THE HORROR!”
By the way, since we are talking about South Loop….go visit 12th Street beach and see the ThIrd World and you can volunteer to pick up their litter. I forgot to mention, if you try and avoid all the anti-Sonies type humanity at that beach, go head towards the south side of the beach……where the trees are, less people, etc…..gee…..no respite there either. DO NOT bring your kids, because you’ll find condoms in the dunes, and homos hanging out looking for privacy. I’m no troll, but a bona fide Chicagoan telling it as it is.
LOL! Only propagandists and brainwashed idiots of the highest order mock the “know-nothings”, because not one single thing they said has ever been proven untrue, or could be proven untrue. Pretty much everything they said has come to pass, skeptic deserves their same fate….
“Clio is as American as apple pie and the 4th of July”
Clio is right. This comment above is just pathetic denigration of America, from a hater of it. Only those that hate would choose to mock the 4th of July. It fits right in with the “yoga” crowd, that idiotically falls for the “anything foreign is better” moronic BS. Yoga has to be the STUPIDEST idiocy ever pushed on lame-brain Westerners by anti-West types. If yoga was such a great thing, then India wouldn’t have 1/2 of its population defecating in the grass, and the Rizzes of the world wouldn’t be moving here instead – en masse. What a joke.
“New poster here. This is the first time I have seen a substantive discussion of crime on Crib Chatter, so I decided to comment. Until this thread, I was amazed at how divorced Crib Chatter seemed to be from Chicago News Report.
Why all the -1s for comments mentioning crime? Are those from real estate permabulls? I clearly see that my entire Crib Chatter commenting career will be in the DEEP negative.”
Don’t worry about it, you stick to the Truth, no matter what. Continue to have virtue.
Ha ha ha… Re-read the post helmethead, that was sarcasm directed at you. No freaking DUH the know-nothing party and their WASPy constituents faded into the obscurity of the suburbs, that was my point – America was founded on immigration, those poor and huddled masses won’t stop arriving any time soon, it makes what we are, cosmopolitan. I sentence you to write the Statue of Liberty’s inscription 100x!
…as for 12th Street beach, I have volunteered to clean up litter there, and here is a newsflash- that trash is from the Beavis and Buttheads who are pounding brews before concerts at Northerly Island.
wow, you really are a county-fried rube.
“Clio is as American as apple pie and the 4th of July”
Clio is right. This comment above is just pathetic denigration of America, from a hater of it”
Helmethofer – you are completely off base on that comment. I am not, and never will be, a hater of America. If you knew me at all it would be clear that those words are wrong! Nice try though!
Clio – the reason that I consider you as American as apple pie is that although you were likely born into money you attended school, got a great education, and now hold an incredible degree. While this is not isolated to America this enables you to become successful and live the American dream. In addition despite having that degree and potential to create a great income you chose to start multiple businesses, created jobs for others, and made additional profits. This is indeed the American dream.
As it turns out many risks and rewards do not turn out perfect. This is the case for some of your properties yet I have not heard you looking for subsidies from the government because you made a poorly timed purchase decision. That used to be the real American attitude.
Today it seems like when the average American has a financial problem, largely caused by their own personal decisions, they expect a bailout from the government. That is not hating America but rather hating some lazy risk averse Americans that think that life and decisions should only be positive and that taking risk should never have negative consequences.
“Yoga has to be the STUPIDEST idiocy ever pushed on lame-brain Westerners by anti-West types.”
Yoga is great.
1- It totally opens you up and makes you feel so relaxed when you finish, it is also nice to be able to just feel all stretched out and flexible. I like that at any time I can put my palms flat on the ground unlike most fat ass Americans that can’t even see their toes.
2- Hot chicks in downward dog… ’nuff said right there.
“Today it seems like when the average American has a financial problem, largely caused by their own personal decisions, they expect a bailout from the government.”
That’s why I love it when the MSM covers stories about “predatory lending”. Yeah it’s not like people who wanted to buy a 750k home with 60k in HHI had other financing options. It’s not like Countrywide put a gun up to their head.
In truth they wanted the house via any means possible. And they weren’t taken advantage of by predatory lenders. As it turns out they were/are the ones taking advantage of Joe taxpayer.
“As it turns out they were/are the ones taking advantage of Joe taxpayer”
True! In reality the high net worth hard working Americans are the ones stuffed with that tab and in return we will never qualify for most of those programs should we find ourselves upside down on a deal. My wifes Sloop condo for example! Thanks Countrywide etc. for raising our current and future tax rates by making those idiotic loans! MSM as usual has their own agenda.
Time to band together to reappoint the king for another term. I just wonder how many months after the election it will be before someone big in the MSM starts floating the idea of a three term limit for the Presidential office. There is no way they are putting Joe “oops” Biden on the ticket in 2016 and Hillary is looking fairly exhausted lately. She has a really tough job and seems to be doing pretty well. That would also buy enough time for Jesse Jr. to get healthy and/ or to serve his time for whatever investigation they seem determined to point in his direction.
I think you need to bone up on your constitutional history. When presidential term limitations was enacted, it had a grandfather clause that would have allowed Truman to be exempt from it. It stands to reason the same thing would happen regarding the current president IF you could actually get it appealed.
Although if they could pass the Patriot Act in 10 minutes I suppose anything is possible.
“Americans are the ones stuffed with that tab and in return we will never qualify for most of those programs should we find ourselves upside down on a deal.”
Some may say throwing them a bone every now and again keeps the masses distracted and from demanding real/drastic change.
Notice how many stories are in the MSM financial press about Roth IRA vs. Regular vs. 401k? How many do you read about the higher deferred contribution limits of business owners/self-employed?
Ever heard about 415(c)(1)(A) plans? Because their limitation is 50k. It’s how the rich stay rich. Nothing to see here folks move along.
Just think of all the middle mgt types who think they’re getting a great deal on a 50% 401k match up to the first 6% and how being able to put away 17k is a lot of $.
The truly well off have different, better rules that apply to them.
“There is no way they are putting Joe “oops” Biden on the ticket in 2016 and Hillary is looking fairly exhausted lately.”
Biden would be 74 upon inauguration in 2016. He would be the oldest ever elected. Reagan was just under 70. Sure, things are improving with aging and people are working later in their lives and all of that (and Ron Paul was running this year at age 76) but age would be a real issue with Biden. Sorry to say it.
Hillary is 64. She would be 69 upon inauguration in 2016. She would be younger than Ronnie was- but only by a few months.
Romney is currently 65. He is squarely within the baby boomer generation. Obama is at the youngest end of the baby boomers as he was born in 1961. Generation X usually is considered to have started around the mid 1960s.
Shortly, it will be time to move the Baby Boomers off the stage and make way for the Generation X politicians such as Jindhal, Rubio etc. The next few election cycles will likely reflect this growing shift to the next generation. Obama already reflects it (as, he’s only 50 and is on the young edge of the baby boomers, as I said).
4 years is a long time. You don’t know who is going to emerge by then.
“I sentence you to write the Statue of Liberty’s inscription 100x!”
ha! Totally.
Remember the old “No Irish” caveat from 100 years ago to “help wanted” signs? NOTHING has changed. Still hating on whatever “new” group is landing on our shores.
“It stands to reason the same thing would happen regarding the current president IF you could actually get it appealed”
Again I suggest that it is only a matter of time after the election that some liberal MSM outlet will raise the idea. It will be a litmus test to see how the masses react. Icarus. I’m no constitutional expert. Never clammed that one on a resume but from what I see the good news is that the liberal side of the MSM already have loose interpretations on how the constitution can be interpreted so that should not be considered much of an obstacle.
“Again I suggest that it is only a matter of time after the election that some liberal MSM outlet will raise the idea.”
You’re nuts, right?
There are FAR too many ambitious politicians waiting in the wings to allow that to happen. Besides, remember all the “ideas” to somehow change the rules so that governors like Arnold who don’t meet the birth requirements could run? Those never went anywhere either. Too much happens in 8 years. Administrations get exhausted. That’s the modern presidency. That’s why cabinet officers change over every few years as well.
You are right as I’d be nuts if i thought that the idea had a chance! Again I’m not saying that it would or for that matter even could ever happen. I’m sure that popular sentiment and any vote or poll on that subject would be strongly against the idea. However you will owe me a beer late next year and I’ll suspect it will be before thanksgiving when that all loving MSM suggests the idea!
“However you will owe me a beer late next year and I’ll suspect it will be before thanksgiving when that all loving MSM suggests the idea!”
We have much bigger problems than trying to change the law so someone could get elected a third time. Trust me. The MSM is already sick of this administration, why would they want it for yet another 4 years?
So no- we won’t be having a beer next year because no one will care about the Obamas staying in Washington for yet another 4 years.
Sabrina views are red in a city of blue….I never would have guessed.
While i aggree i can assure you that the MSM does not prioritize the needs of our country before their need for ratings and or a chance to heap love on their annoInted man. They adore the guy! Heck even the US Supreme court rewrote his healthcare bill to make it pass muster. I’m now upping it to dinner!
Serious question: who or what is this MSM you speak of?
“Serious question: who or what is this MSM you speak of?”
I think I finally figured out that MSM=mainstream media perhaps?
MSM = The Main Stream Media aka all the major networks.
The MSM is certainly not sick of this or any democratic administration in the past. Remember Iran-contra and its extensive media coverage? What about Fast & Furious today you’ll need to do some googling to figure that one out the MSM won’t cover it aside from taking potshots at republicans for demanding answers. Hell the other day very clever Pierce Brosnan was intentionally acting like an idiot in an interview when he pretended to not know the difference & precedent created by Obamacare mandate being upheld & being required to carry insurance if you drive a car.
MSM reporters and their bosses believe they are shepherd’s of the people and it is their duty to guide them. part of the reason MSM media outlets are failing en masse.
Yes, the mainstream media is totally propping up Obama.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/romneys-press-coverage-more-positive-than-obamas-in-the-past-year-study-shows/
Obama’s positive coverage never reached the point of Romney’s positive coverage in the past year — and it looks like Romney’s highest point of negative coverage was still lower than Obama’s.
Madeline–Didn’t anyone tell you that this is a spin-free zone?
Besides, MSM = anyone *I* disagree with, so mediaite qualifies–clearly pumping Obama by “proving” that the rest of the MSM isn’t pumping Obama.
So go on thinking its all about left and right, Bob. The MSM did such a good job covering that Iraq weapons of mass destruction thingy. The contra affair was during the Reagan administration. Things have devolved since then. The MSM also played a part in allowing 9/11 to be parlayed into the Patriot Act, whose power has since been extended with the NDAA to deprive us of even more civil liberties in the name of anti-terrorism by the current regime. The fact that the Republicans overwhelmingly support this slide towards police state didn’t mean we heard about it in the MSM. Will we ever exit the “state of emergency” we’ve been in since 9/11, and does anybody know we’re still in one (also not covered by MSM)?
I find the truth on the internets, but it takes a lot of verification effort. Most people don’t take that extra step.
Duh people its the ‘lame stream media’ not the MSM. At least that’s what ms sarah palin calls it.
“I find the truth on the internets, but it takes a lot of verification effort.”
Paraphrasing Reagan. And comparing the intertubez to the CCCP. Nice.
“Yes, the mainstream media is totally propping up Obama.”
kind of hard to do that since he’s doing such a shitty job… Romney at this point is like the backup QB that everyone thinks is awesome because the starting QB sucks. (plenty of bears fans here to get that analogy)
“kind of hard to do that since he’s doing such a shitty job… Romney at this point is like the backup QB that everyone thinks is awesome because the starting QB sucks. (plenty of bears fans here to get that analogy)”
Does that make Mitt Claeb Haine?
Madeline – I think that the reason Mitt “no waves” Romney does not get as many negative stories from the MSM is purely by design. Name a point or topic where he has taken a strong stance. It makes it hard for them to find something to criticize other than going back to the big bad investment guy storyline. I believe that it angers many conservatives that their guy has been playing the “vanilla card” for at least the last six months. Look for that to change by late summer or he is done.
Oh and some of those negative stories were about BOB’s family’s fancy travel plans. I recall many rounds of that storyline over the last year or two. Give the f’n guy a break. If I had control of Air Force One for four years that thing would be in orbit constantly. Oh and the secret service would be glad to have me in charge. I’d just make sure that when traveling to other countries that they learned the local customs and tipped appropriately for good service.
Just kidding ha…ha…. It was a joke! You people need to lighten up sometimes!
“Obama’s positive coverage never reached the point of Romney’s positive coverage in the past year — and it looks like Romney’s highest point of negative coverage was still lower than Obama’s.”
The methodology seems questionable. Among many other things, stories about primary election successes are counted as positives. So, all else equal, the winning candidate for the challenging party will almost necessarily receive a lot of positive coverage. An incumbent w/o a real primary opponent likely won’t get nearly the same chunk of positive election coverage, bc winning is not really news.
Why doesn’t Helmethofer just come out and use the word he means when he says Americans? You mean white people. White people can be immigrants, just as people that appear to look Latino or Indian can be Americans. The Fourth of July parade in my town was attended by Americans and immigrants alike, of all different races. And I guarantee you couldn’t have known from looking which was which.
Thanks for tolerating my verbosity. Regarding CCCP, I had to go to Russia Today (RT) to watch my fav economist, Steve Keen, call banksters parasites and say Bill Black should be given charge of a Libor probe. Nothing like that coming out of MSM endorsed Krugman. The search for truth leads to strange places.
http://rt.com/programs/capital-account/steve-keen-debt-horizon/
“comparing the intertubez to the CCCP”
“Nothing like that coming out of MSM endorsed Krugman”
Heh!
On a lighter note, ZH posted a nice compilation of Daily Show correspondent clips on the economy:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/daily-show-correspondents-explain-economy
If you want to see romneys stance on american politics then merely look at his convention speech in 2008 where he laid out his conservative agenda.
Romneys position thus far was to let Obama do all the heavy lifting for his campaign. And it seems to be working.
Crain’s just interviewed David Wolf, the agent who is going to be in charge of selling all of these condos. Here’s an excerpt:
“The downtown market got off to a pretty slow start this year. What’s your outlook for the market going forward?
I believe that the market’s turned a corner. I don’t think it’s going to be rapid appreciation or the feverish market that we had in 2004, ’05, ’06, but I think that people feel better about real estate. I think buyers want to buy. I think people have been on the sidelines for way too long and they’re ready to make a move and pull the trigger.”
Read more: http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/article/20120727/CRED01/120729784/south-loop-sales-job#ixzz223zRMIb8
Maybe Mr. Wolf took the job because it offers relative stability, perhaps even a salary and benefits, as compared to being a realtor?
“off topic: Does anyone know if you can use an appraisal as part of a property tax appeal with Cook County?”
Dan, I just saw your question from July 5th.
My attorney was successful in obtaining a very small token reduction for me on my property taxes.
We tried to have it increased so I had an appraisal done for back-up, but the appeal was denied by Cook County.
The appraisal cost $300 and it came in on the high side – higher than comps for the neighborhood.
I had even provided the appraiser with comps BEFORE he did the appraisal which he ignored.
If I did it over I would have chosen a different appraiser.
The guy was a total pompous dick.
He refused to look at the data and reconsider.
My attorney is appealing to the state right now to see if he can get anywhere that way.
Most of my neighbors in my condo are long-term owners who also have homeowners exemptions.
I bought last year and it’s not my primary residence so I pay twice what they pay.
My attorney’s really great.
If you want his contact information, feel free to drop a line to Sabrina.
She knows how to get ahold of me.