Modern and Truly “Green” in Old Town: 1322 N. Clybourn
This new construction building at 1322 N. Clybourn apparently has leed silver certification and was awarded a 2009 good green design award.
This 3-bedroom unit, Unit #3N, has solar heating, bamboo floors and eco-paints, among other green features.
It also has a private terrace, luxury appliances in the kitchen and floor to ceiling windows.
It has been reduced by $70,000 since July 2009.
Robert John Anderson at Baird & Warner has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #3N: 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1800 square feet
- New construction
- Was listed in July 2009 for $499,000
- Reduced several times
- Currently listed for $429,000 (parking extra)
- Assessments of $316 a month
- Taxes of $2728
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the Unit
- Bedroom #1: 18×12
- Bedroom #2: 13×11
- Bedroom #3: 12×11
Rental. That is it and nothing more. A nice unit (or nice enough) but the location couldn’t be worse. The Larrabee/Clyborn intersection is incredibly busy with traffic and what’s left of Cabrini Green is right around the corner (you can actually see it in the photo of the building). No public transportation is readily available. This area has an eerie quiet to it. Not a lot of people – just traffic.
I guess Dominics, Starbucks, Blockbuster and a park (where the young girl was recently gang raped) are right down the street.
Until the price drops to where a rental will cash flow, I can’t imagine someone buying this.
“No public transportation is readily available.”
Less than two (2!) blocks is what it takes to be “readily available”? Division bus exactly two blocks south, North bus exactly two blocks + one intersection north, redline two (long-ish–fine. 2xroot-two=2.828, still about an 8 minute walk, unless you’re Groove) blocks northwest.
And it becomes “too close” at about a block to a block and a half, right? So to be “close to public transit” but not “too close” is a range of about one-half to three-quarters of a block.
Not that I don’t think this is (a) still too rich and (b) a notsogood location. But transit isn’t a good reason to dog it.
This is Cabrini, not Old Town… wtf
“This 3-bedroom unit, Unit #3N, has solar heating, bamboo floors and eco-paints, among other green features.”
I have solar heating too, its called large windows on a southern exposure… Althought if those are all solar panels on that top picture that is sorta cool (although still a huge waste of money since when its cold there’s never any sunshine in Chicago)
Wow bamboo floors instead of oak are what an extra $500?
eco-paints? LOL were the dyes mixed by indegenous peoples crushing up flower petals and other crap? Give me a frickin break, paints are never eco friendly.
And is anyone else not a fan of those diagonal floors? I think they are ugly.
And this : “Gar & Outdr Pkg Addl.”
How much? And why the hell would I want to pay $430k + who knows how much to park my car literally across the street from the cabrini highrises?
LEED Silver is a joke by the way. If you plop a bike rack down and locate your development near public transport, you’re basically certified.
truly cabrini green
lulz
“Green” is a racket to let the bourgeois feel virtous with no more sacrifice than spending money on this instead of that; sort of a modern version of Tetzel.
Yeah this whole Green bandwagon is not going to fly. Green usually means more expensive and more expensive usually means more resources consumed and more resources consumed means less eco-friendly. Solar panels still don’t make sense – maybe someday but not now.
those cabrini high rises are all down within the next year/year and a half. the middle one is already vacant and being used as a training facility for swat teams as it awaits demolition. so granted, not the best neighborhood right this second but will significantly improve very soon
I hear you Sonies. I wouldn’t live around the corner from CG for free, let alone pay 430K without parking!! It’s not a bad unit, but for that much money you better get at least a nice, mature, safe neighborhood, not one that’s been ‘developing’ for the better part of a couple of decades.
To say the very least, you could get more for less elsewhere.
“To say the very least, you could get more for less elsewhere.”
Anyone have any examples? I am right in this price range (could go higher to max of $500). But haven’t found anything that I love in this range.
Gary – I’m interested in your point of view on why solar panels do not make sense yet. I’ve been debating this year installing a 4 panel system that would offset my kw usage on a yearly credit basis. After incentives and grants, the system breaks even in just over 4 years based on a steady state rate from Com Ed. Based on MTTF of 10 years, I could expect to see the system double its value.
I haven’t pulled the trigger due to waiting for a roof resurfacing that is bound to be due soon (10 yr old building), and will only do so if I think I’ll live in the property for another 2-3 years after install.
That being said – I do think simple PV systems with the proper regulatory structure (ie forced generator credits) make systems worthwhile now, for the consumer.
At no point in this equation did I evaluate the overall impact to the globe, so I have not addressed manufacture and shipping energy costs.
As an engineer in the field of “green” building (commercial and institutional, not this residential stuff) you all shouldn’t be dismissing “green” and LEED until you learn a little more about it.
LEED Silver is not easy to get. LEED certified is not easy to get. It takes a LOT more than plopping down a bike rack. Read over the LEED standards and you’ll see.
Yes, there are “green” paints. They have 0 VOCs (volatile organic compounds). VOCs contribute to a lot of respiratory problems you see in new buildings and were the cause of “sick building syndrome” in the 80’s and 90’s.
Yes, “green” sometimes costs more. But it’s not because you’re consuming more resources. It’s because you’re buying more environmentally friendly products that usually require more labor to create. Labor = $$$. Not to mention, contractors usually tack on extra to their costs to deal with these “green” products because they know they can make an extra buck.
Most of these “green” residential projects are junk and give the “green” and LEED movements a bad name. The “green” movement is a good thing in many ways (locally sourced materials are great for the environment and the local economy/jobs, reducing the crazy amounts of energy buildings is a great thing, reducing sick buildings is a great thing) and it’s a shame when people badmouth it either because of these crappy examples or just because of their own ignorance.
@Doug
The UGBC is a ponzi scheme and LEED certification is not credible for the most part. My neighbor tore down a 12 unit building and is constructing a 21,000 SF “LEED” home for 4 people with 5 underground parking spaces in a densely populated area. This is a “green” house? LEED is terribly flawed.
Giving aways LEED labels for marketing reasons or for the wealthy to alleviate their guilt is no way to go.
Energy performance material selection, IMHO, should be the driving factors for “green” buildings.
Wicker/Gary,
I don’t know much about solar PV cells, but the house I grew up in had 2 solar heating panels on the roof. They were there when we moved into the house and are presumably still there, working great.
The system was extremely simple. Just a series of pipes in a fiberglass enclosure. A small electric fan circulated air from the panels into the house.
The heater in the house never had to turn on during the day as long as it was sunny outside. And contrary to Sonie’s anecdote, it is a lot sunnier than you’d think on the coldest of Chicago’s days.
That system paid for itself many, many times over. They can be pretty cheap to begin with – I helped build a few solar water heaters for swimming pools (that just sat inline with the filter pump) and a lot of them used construction “waste” that we got for free. These actually work ridiculously well in Chicago-area summer conditions.
It will be great to be so close to all this shopping!
I’m scared to walk to the shopping.
We don’t even need our car in this area!
Thank God because it was vandalized and then stolen.
The Apple store is coming soon!
Someone just robbed me and took my iPod.
Old Town is great!
I wish Old Town weren’t so far away from us.
We are green!
I wish we had bought a decent place in Old Town.
What a great rooftop deck!
Who are all these freaks we have to hang out with on the rooftop deck?
What a steal this place was!
We will never be able to resell this.
LEED is a decent guide for truly clueless builders who want to go green, but you can do a lot better if you put your money in the stuff you care about instead of pleasing a checklist.
“And contrary to Sonie’s anecdote, it is a lot sunnier than you’d think on the coldest of Chicago’s days.”
Its always sunny, there’s just clouds blocking the sun from pretty much November-March in Chicago.
“Yes, there are “green” paints. They have 0 VOCs (volatile organic compounds). VOCs contribute to a lot of respiratory problems you see in new buildings and were the cause of “sick building syndrome” in the 80’s and 90’s.”
never heard of “sick building syndrome” before or VOC’s but from the EPA website it mentions nothing of VOC’s coming from PAINT… open the windows and air out the place after painting. Dry paint doesn’t emit anything so “eco paint” sounds like yet another green scam. Here’s from the EPA website:
“Chemical contaminants from indoor sources: Most indoor air pollution comes from sources inside the building. For example, adhesives, carpeting, upholstery, manufactured wood products, copy machines, pesticides, and cleaning agents may emit volatile organic compounds (VOCs), including formaldehyde. Environmental tobacco smoke contributes high levels of VOCs, other toxic compounds, and respirable particulate matter. Research shows that some VOCs can cause chronic and acute health effects at high concentrations, and some are known carcinogens. “
“clybourn on December 10th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
those cabrini high rises are all down within the next year/year and a half. the middle one is already vacant and being used as a training facility for swat teams as it awaits demolition. so granted, not the best neighborhood right this second but will significantly improve very soon”
They have been saying this for years. Anyone who buys on this hope is crazy.
Haven’t heard of any gang rapes in the area recently, but I wouldn’t put it past the neighborhood. People assume that when (and if) the highrises come down, that solves everything. Unfortuantely, all you are left with is section 8 housing and the same problems you had before. The Marshall Field homes are no picnic and are probably as worrysome as Cabrini itself.
I like driving through as its not as congested as other arterial routes, but that is about it. This area is a ghost town at night and is still an island.
I think a lot of the urban pioneers (circa 2002) are regretting moving here and there have been some recent short sales / foreclosures of the “market rate” housing they put up. Nothing has changed from a development perspective in the last few years (unless tearing down the Larabee buildings is real progress). I’d guess it will be another 10 before its appreciably different. Long time to live in a condo…
“never heard of “sick building syndrome” before or VOC’s but from the EPA website it mentions nothing of VOC’s coming from PAINT”
Then you’re uninformed on the subject. And normal latex or oil paint is bascially a can of VOCs with some tint in it.
http://www.epa.gov/iaq/voc.html
“paint” all over the place. If you haven’t heard about this you probably just don’t give a shit and shouldn’t be talking about it.
VOCs are emitted long after paint dries. Look it up, plenty of studies on this kinda thing.
“those cabrini high rises are all down within the next year/year and a half.”
NONE of the Cabrini or Green buildings are scheduled for demo in FY2010. Check the plan at thecha dot org. I think this is the first time in the decade-plus of the plan for transformation that they’ve *not* claimed to be tearing down at least one building in C-G. 1230 Larrabee and 1230 Burling and 660 Division were supposed to come down this year. Along with 412 Chicago (which they did tear down, right?). That they aren’t in the next year’s plan makes me question if/when it will actually happen.
They also took the Lathrop Homes off the schedule for this year, where they had been for a couple of years.
““paint” all over the place. If you haven’t heard about this you probably just don’t give a shit and shouldn’t be talking about it.”
Yes I noticed that after some more digging around. Its all a load of bullshit, That crap costs and extra $20 a gallon, what a waste! I painted for years and my brain cells are still intact, I don’t have athsma or cancer or permaflu. Hell you probably inhale more VOC’s from lighting a scented candle in your house than dry paint does.
Also I’m Pretty sure all the drinking and dope/cig smoking in college had a much worse effect on me than anything. Although now that you mention this “sick building” thing, I think my workplace may have that. Everyone’s always sneezing and sniffling here. Wierd thing is that its a class A building too… whatever.
Doug and Wicker,
Interesting discussion here. For the individual solar panels or other “green” initiatives may make sense but only because of government incentives. The total system costs are still higher than the alternative – hence the need for the incentives. And they are more expensive because of the manufacturing costs of the products. Yes, sometimes it is more labor but labor is a resource also. Those people eat meat from animals that emit methane and those people heat their houses and the more money they make the more resources they consume. To me this is a really simple concept that I don’t see discussed in the media. Price always equates to raw materials when you trace all the way down the bottom of the value chain.
Tipster,
I occasionally hear stories like this and I’m intrigued. Usually it is the passive systems like the ones you describe that I hear about succeeding. My only question then is why aren’t more people doing it? And that’s not meant to be a sarcastic question – it’s a genuine one.
“Yes, sometimes it is more labor but labor is a resource also. Those people eat meat from animals that emit methane and those people heat their houses and the more money they make the more resources they consume. ”
Permanent poverty for billions (or genocide) as a “green” initiative. I like it!
“My only question then is why aren’t more people doing it?”
Upfront cost, skepticism about functionality, they’re “ugly”. And other things, I’m sure, but I’d wager those are the three biggest.
Oh, and that the places (and times of year) they work *best* are the places and times they are distinctly *not* needed for heat.
but assuredly, during winter in Chicago its more often sunny (esp. on cold days) than compared to Michigan and the northeast. passive heat works. and PV are rounding the corner. VOC’s can be emitted when dry, esp. formaldehyde from particle/egineered wood products and furniture.
at some point the ugliness/cost/skepticism has to give way to progress or no point in having children as they’ll be living in a worst off world, contemplating if the next generation will have lower life expectancy; quality of life is already going down now (economic).
anon,
Many passive solar heating systems definitely need to be disconnected/not used in the summer, but they are very useful outside of the hot seasons. In the case of the swimming pools that I had helped build, the swimming seasons were extended by around a month in both the spring and fall.
And just look outside right now. It’s sunny enough to harvest plenty of heat from the sun, yet it is 20 degrees F.
There are increasing number of people that “store” heat in the soil near their home in the summer and then extract that heat in the winter. It is more complicated and more costly, but it works.
“anon,
Many passive solar heating systems definitely need to be disconnected/not used in the summer, but they are very useful outside of the hot seasons. ”
I was just trying to answer Gary’s question. I know they work, why, when, etc. But then most people don’t.
We’ve had this discussion before; Chicago was a hot spot of passive solar construction in the 30’s and 40’s (see Keck & Keck).
Miami tract houses were built with solar hot water heating in the 20s land boom, but most were removed in the 50s when electricity was cheap.
The payback on simple passive solutions shouldn’t take long at all, especially for hot water heating. It’s cheap and simple to install, we’re doing it right now on a project and it’s got a 5 year payback I think.
The big question is whether PV will be cost-effective any time soon. I worked at GE in the late 80s and early 90s and did a project on solar panels. The learning curve data at the time was pretty compelling that it would be cost effective vs. traditional power generation withing a few years. What the hell happened? Consequently, I’m pretty skeptical now. I’d like to see the relative efficiency of PV solar conversion vs. algae, switchgrass, and bamboo. I bet mother nature is much more efficient.
One of the big problems with PV arrays in urban areas that noone talks about is it makes replacing your roof very cost ineffective.
Unless you get lucky and time it perfectly right that the PV system goes out at the same time as your roof needs replacement, you need to replace both once either one goes. Oh and like half the cost of a PV system is installation so have fun paying through the nose to take that crap down and remount it on the new roof.
Also in a northern latitude like Chicago with our climate I’m not sure PV arrays really make much sense. In the sunbelt or Florida sure.
Bob, there are a few calculators you can find online to determine the amount of generation you’ll get in our northern latitude. It’s all relative; you just need more panels (and thus a longer time for ROI). I’m looking to avoid the issue with the roof replacement simply by mounting on the side of the building, like a satellite dish. Not all would be as fortunate for that option, but people get creative.
Though I do think it would be a selling point in 2-3 years to be able to state “no electric bill”. Might be a differentiator in a world awash of McCondos, of which one I inhabit.
Wicker,
It sounds like in your case it can be done as the roof thing is probably the biggest hurdle. Also take advantage of tax credits. In Illinois a couple of years ago combined state and federal tax credits could’ve reduced the cost of a PV system by up to 65%. Unfortunately I think the state legislature never re-funded the program once the money ran out so I think the subsidy is only around 1/3 these days.
And the technology becomes incrementally better all the time:
http://www.powerpulse.net/story.php?storyID=21352
If NASA and satellite firms can achieve 40% solar efficiency spending millions I don’t see why their high-tech won’t trickle down over time.
anon(tfo):
660 W Division was already vacant & gated off when you wrote that.
Its currently undergoing demo:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/chi-pod-pix,0,6615505.photogallery
So while the CHA’s website might be unreliable, there is still ongoing demo of CG high & midrises. In 2009 the demo’d 412 Chicago and started the demo prep for 660 W division. Albeit slow.. progress. There was just a double shooting in one of the two remaining highrises–can’t wait to take those down.
Gives hope for the area around Division once they’re all gone. As for the area around Chicago ave well those low-rises will be there.
“Unfortuantely, all you are left with is section 8 housing and the same problems you had before. The Marshall Field homes are no picnic and are probably as worrysome as Cabrini itself.”
anon(tfo) mentioned that MF homes lease is up for renewal soon.
“I’d guess it will be another 10 before its appreciably different. Long time to live in a condo…”
Not sure–I think a lot does depend on MF homes. The remaining CG high-rises and mid-rises are coming down, but maybe at one/year. And if MF homes does indeed close up the area will go up. Like instantly.
There is no section 8 in Parkside I was told–instead they have to undergo background checks and drug screening? In any case I wouldn’t buy there.
“I think a lot of the urban pioneers (circa 2002) are regretting moving here”
Yeah a few places on Divison are for sale. The funny part is one of them (665 w division) is right next to the highrise currently being brought down. I suspect 665 w division is a nicer place to live now without a CHA highrise next to it than it was before when it was there but who knows why they want to sell.
Reduced to $399,900 this week.