“Multiple Offer Situation” for a 2/2 Under $240K in River North: 440 N. Wabash
This 2 bedroom at 440 N. Wabash in River North – just down the street from Trump Tower- recently came on the market.
It is the cheapest 2-bedroom available in the building at $236,000.
The listing says it is a “multiple offer situation.”
Offers were due by July 22, but so far, from public records, it is not listed as being under contract (but perhaps that will change shortly.)
The building was built in 1992.
The unit has white carpeting along with white kitchen and bathrooms.
It does have amenities many buyers are looking for, however, including central air, in-unit washer/dryer and parking.
The building has a pool and a doorman.
A 1-bedroom short sale in the building, also with the original kitchen and bath, recently closed on the 39th floor for $180,000.
Is this a bargain at the price?
And will it GET multiple offers?
Makeda Smith at Royal Service Realty Chicago Metro has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #2509: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1120 square feet
- Sold in January 2005 for $463,500 (included the parking)
- Lis pendens filed in December 2008
- No record that it is bank owned but the listing says: “This property is eligible for Freddie Mac First Look Initiative thru 08/04/11”
- Currently listed for $236,000 (parking included)
- Assessments of $568 a month (includes heat, a/c, doorman, pool)
- Taxes of $3858
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 16×11
- Bedroom #2: 14×11
Man they made them ugly in nineties.
No idea of building restrictions, or current rental $ rates in the bldg, but this address is very desirable to a great many, and you can clean this up so easily.
Sad_at_Plaza 440 what are your thoughts?
What is rent here? Its my understanding that this building has a very high percentage of renters and that financing is difficult.
“And will it GET multiple offers?”
You guys are clueless – there ARE multiple offers and they are not taking any more. 236k is an absolute steal for this unit and anyone with 10% of a functioning brain would realize this. Actually, if you didn’t or don’t understand this, you really need to find another hobby bc you will continue to be dumbfounded in real estate.
Except for the fact that the building had a lot of foreclosures and would want to find out what the reserve situation is like before buying an offer. Talk about being totally clueless to just buy on the price of the condo.
BTW, I rented here for 2 yrs.
So enlighten us oh wise one Clio… why have none of the multiple offers been accepted?
And since there are so many short sales/foreclosures in the building, why would this be a wise investment @ $236? As neil so wisely states, why simply buy on the price of a condo that is probably worth so much less.
The sale price, commissions, trans fees and lastly, the updating costs would push this over $300 easily and still you would have an underwater unit in a questionable building? Throwing out accusations of being clueless would have to include you as well. Tell us more…are you perhaps the wise investor who owns the unit?
And really, this whole condescending attitude is so old. If you were so successful in this industry…oh why am I bothering? LOL
westie – wtf are you talking about?!!
1. The cost of this unit will not go over 300k because of the commissions. I know that you must not understand how a simple real estate transaction works – but the commission is paid by the seller.
2. Take a look at rental rates for 2/2 in the area. Then open your mouth.
3. Take a look at the location – you aren’t going to go wrong in this location (long term).
4. I thought you were going to ignore my posts – honestly, you would provide so much entertainment at parties – you are too easy to poke fun at.
It would be realistic to get $2500 for rent here, wouldn’t it?
well i’ll agree with one thing, for different reasons, i know westies crowd – and i bet westie would throw one hell of a party…
“It would be realistic to get $2500 for rent here, wouldn’t it?”
I think I saw one listed for $2400. Not sure they’re getting that anymore with all the more updated, newer rental buildings going up in the nearby vicinity (and in Streeterville.)
“It would be realistic to get $2500 for rent here, wouldn’t it?”
Yes. So it wouldn’t make sense to buy unless your monthly outlay was substantially less than that. Even assuming this is a nice building to live in, the risks of ballooning assessments and difficulty in selling outweigh the more predictable risk of regular rent increases.
“I think I saw one listed for $2400. Not sure they’re getting that anymore with all the more updated, newer rental buildings going up in the nearby vicinity (and in Streeterville.”
uhh – hate to break it to you, Sab – but when people need to live in a place, they can’t wait a few years for other buildings to be built. What do you propose they do in the meantime – live on the street? Anyway, I know this area well and own condos in the neighborhood – 2400-4000 for a 2/2. Geez, even in lakeview, rents are 2000-2899 for a 2/2 in a normal building (high rise or non-walk up).
“the risks of ballooning assessments”
I would think at some price point and return on investment the units in doubt would be transferred to investors, now able to make a return on investment and pay their assessments, so I would have to logically assume there is a self correcting mechanism to this problem, over time. So if it’s the guy standing on his terrace alone in a building in Miami, not so good, but if it’s within reason, it should pass.
Clio,
You are still an asshat!
Ok enough said, now to sit out and enjoy the sun
Don’t worry everyone – the crisis is over:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Spring-buying-boosts-home-apf-4072825665.html;_ylt=AliZC09WjHVMhqs6.XXfQAa7YWsA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1NHV1dDlkBHBvcwMzBHNlYwN0b3BTdG9yaWVzBHNsawNzcHJpbmdidXlpbmc-?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=
Cs index: how do you spell B-O-T-T-O-M?
Do you read anything but the headlines on your links, Clio?
Here is less upbeat one on the same topic.:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-26/home-prices-in-20-u-s-cities-fell-4-5-in-year-to-may-case-shiller-says.html
Are you assuming everybody else just reads headlines too?
Yes – yes I do, Juliana. Research has shown that our attention spans have (and are) continued to decrease over time. People don’t have time for more than the headlines…….
Juliana,
The price index for Chicago was actually quite encouraging (for sellers). Finally single family home prices turned the corner and condo prices are up for the second month in a row.
So you are working with what you’ve got to boost that all important consumer confidence. Regular patriot.
“Yes – yes I do, Juliana. Research has shown that our attention spans have (and are) continued to decrease over time. People don’t have time for more than the headlines…….”
I work very close to here and this is not the building I would pick. There are bums who LIVE practically under this building on Lower Wabash. They even have a couch under the viaduct. They also wander about in the back of the building. Plus, people sit out in the back of the building and smoke. There is a small dog park nearby, but you’d have to walk by the bums to get there.
Maybe not everyone would care about the back or under the building, but I find it annoying.
jenny, maybe you should consider moving to Iowa – seriously, re-read your statment, then look around you and realize that you are living in the city of chicago. There are going to be bums, smokers, etc.
“Maybe not everyone would care about the back or under the building, but I find it annoying.”
On a 1-10 scale, compared to the bike lane on Kinzie, if the bike lane is a 7, how annoying do you find the homeless?
Also, did you see that a bike lane is coming to Jackson, from Damen to Halted? That’ll prolly affect your commute, too.
what are you talking about jenny, the bums are under the viaduct or whatever its called… you don’t need to go down there unless you plan on dbagging it up at some of the bars/clubs on hubbard
as for the location of this building, its a block north of trump, which some have said is the best located building in the city, the unit itself is really sad though, reminds me of some of the piss invesco was selling at the sterling (345 n lasalle)
I heard the rental rate is approaching 50%…If the building is over 50% rental how does this affect financing? You can’t get a FHA/Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac loan…so its not so helpful to non-investor owner occupants. Might explain why many of these “deals” go to cash only investors. Can you get a loan from a portfolio lender or conventional lender if your credit is good and you have 20% down?
This is an American Invsco conversion. Talk amongst yourselves.
I’m sure Russ can chime in, but local, I was told you need 25% down to avoid a condo disclosure
I hate to agree with clio, but if this place goes for ask it would be a good deal.
$236,000 (back out parking @36k)
$200,000
$178.57 psf
Currently I have a construction cost estimate on my desk for rental highrise at $220.00 psf (Construction Cost) which does not include land cost or any associated soft costs.
That being said this is a distressed Invsco building, you will probably need to hold for a least 10 years. No quick flip here.
I think it would be pretty easy to get $2400 rent (2200 for unit and 200 for parking).
“jenny, maybe you should consider moving to Iowa – seriously, re-read your statment, then look around you and realize that you are living in the city of chicago. There are going to be bums, smokers, etc.”
Thank you Clio, you stole the words out of my mouth. Jenny, Iowa is pretty nice. Just stay away from larger cities like Des Moines or Iowa City or you run the risk of running into a homeless person. If I were you, I’d shoot for Dubuque.
There are lots of places in the city that don’t have bums living under the building. I consider bums to be able bodied people who walk around harassing others. Homeless are different in my mind.
There is a homeless shelter near where I live in University Village and it’s still not as bad as the guys who have made a home under this building.
There is a tiny pocket around this building that just isn’t nice. There is a staircase leading from upper to lower wabash, for instance. I can’t count the number of times I have seen empty beer cans and porn strewn about on the staircase.
I just don’t like this block even if Trump Tower is near it.
“I can’t count the number of times I have seen empty beer cans and porn strewn about on the staircase.”
The Tribune writers need someplace to hang out and smoke …
This unit (interior) is soul sucking.
“jenny, maybe you should consider moving to Iowa – seriously, re-read your statment, then look around you and realize that you are living in the city of chicago. There are going to be bums, smokers, etc.”
This isn’t the first time that people here have suggested that a city comes with problems (but I don’t define smokers as a problem) by definition. Personally, I find it really bizarre that people accept all the problems of Chicago as just part of living in a city. With that attitude I’m surprised that we made it out of caves. Raw sewage running in the streets is also associated with certain urban areas. Maybe that’s OK too?
“The price index for Chicago was actually quite encouraging (for sellers).”
Dead cat bounces are a gift from God. Some might say they prove her existence.
“Finally single family home prices turned the corner and condo prices are up for the second month in a row.”
Are you calling bottom yet again?
G -give it up – the writing is on the wall. The bottom is here – prices will slowly start rising for the next few years after which larger gains will be seen.
“Raw sewage running in the streets is also associated with certain urban areas. Maybe that’s OK too?”
Close enough here, what with the open, raw-ish, sewage trench running thru the middle of the city.
“I’m sure Russ can chime in, but local, I was told you need 25% down to avoid a condo disclosure”
Russ — Is this true? Do you have any info an availability (and terms like interest rates) on buildings that have rental rates above 50% or 30% in the case you need a jumbo loan. I’ve looked at some units in the 275-350K range that have about 50% rental and I have enought for a 20-25% downpayment but still need a mortgage (can’t do all cash). I’ve also looked at luxury buildings in the 700-800K range that have above 30% rental. I would need a jumbo loan here and I always thought (perhaps incorrectly) that conventional lenders who lend jumbo (FHA/Freddie/Fannie limits don’t go this high) won’t lend in buildngs with 30% greater rentals. Am I incorrect? Or does the rental rate just affect the % down needed? or interest rate?
G,
I am tempted to call the bottom yet again. If next month is also up I’ll call a bottom. Inventory levels are really low right now and I’m seeing more activity and multiple offers, properties moving quickly. Any kind of deal is flying off the shelf.
BTW, anyone who has an opinion on housing prices in Chicago (know anyone?) has one month left to play my forecasting game with a chance to share a $500 prize with 2 other people: http://csforecast.com/ Interestingly, the consensus contest forecast is for a 4.6% drop in June. No way that’s happening. Easy money for someone.
DAVE MATTHEWS!
Here’s some 09 tier rental activity:
2809 6/28/2011 $2,425 w/pkg
4109 8/5/2010 $2,175 ?/pkg
3709 8/1/2010 $2,175 ?/pkg
4009 2/10/2010 $1,850 no pkg
4109 7/13/2009 $2,200 ?/pkg
2809 5/9/2009 $2,150 ?/pkg
4609 5/8/2009 $2,400 ?/pkg
4009 1/29/2009 $2,400 ?/pkg
4209 5/21/2008 $2,400 ?/pkg
4609 3/31/2008 $2,450 ?/pkg
509 2/15/2008 $1,800 ?/pkg
4109 10/7/2007 $2,200 ?/pkg
Parking:
P-128 1/28/2011 $165
P-258 1/20/2011 $180
P-37 7/21/2010 $210
P-264 5/14/2010 $200
P-128 2/4/2010 $200
P-305 2/1/2010 $250
“DAVE MATTHEWS!”
Dude just mistimed it–He had correctly identified the open sewer trench.
Wow Clio another heat wave is coming but I know I don’t have to worry as you will keep me shilly for days 🙂
BTW you are still an asshat
“DAVE MATTHEWS!”
We should all seriously keep that in mind for perspective.
OT, saw a listing reminiscent of the “LEED” builder. About $400K over lot cost for new construction, what seems like basic quality, SFH.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2534-W-Medill-Ave-60647/home/13416985
Thanks G,
Parking rents have really fallen off a cliff.
“Any kind of deal is flying off the shelf.”
“Deals” are still lowering CS. Inventory levels will only have a temporary effect on CS when volume is this low. There is still too much shadow inventory ready to enter the game. Absolutely perfect knife catching situation, though, which is why I agree that sellers are currently feeling Her grace.
G – REALLY?!! Using 2007 rents as data for 2011. are….you…kidding…me?!! Now we know the truth…
G – we have already established that the majority of the shadow inventory is in areas that are traditionally considered undesirable – also, many of the properties are tear downs. That will have little to no effect on the green zone. Remember, everyone keeps anxiously awaiting the “shadow inventory” – where is it? huh? I can’t hear you….
“OT, saw a listing reminiscent of the “LEED” builder. About $400K over lot cost for new construction, what seems like basic quality, SFH. ”
There’s Bob’s GatorDeck, on a cheap-ish new house.
Any chance it’s the same folks trying a De-Lux model?
“Parking rents have really fallen off a cliff.”
valasko, I wouldn’t be surprised to find this in any speculator-laden bubble era conversion as they spiral downward due to an increasingly transient (and car-less) tenant base.
clio,
Re read my post…I have included the price of updating this fugly unit. The kitchen and baths are in need of updating in a bad way. Say someone such as yourself…you know the kind…I live in _____________ and drive a ____________ and all of my kitchen appliances are ________________ and the decorator I hired for my in town is _______________and you know what she charges!!!!!!!!!
But I AM in River North where no MORONS or IDIOTS live and surely that must be WORTH, at the VERY least, $25k!!!!!!! So yes, it would cost in the $300k range to buy, update and furnish the way one would in a building in the shadow of Trump!!! Well at least according to you!!!!!
CLASSIC CLIO or Clio or clio:
“Research has shown that our attention spans have (and are) continued to decrease over time. People don’t have time for more than the headlines…….”
Do you tell your patients that? “It’s not a brain tumor sir, you’re just old and you have a short attention span. Now get over it!!!!”
Regarding ‘my parties’….
Did I mistakenly invite you to one of them and you realized how attractive I am and how much you are drawn to me? So now you take comfort in harrassing me on the internet?
I am calling the FBI on you for stalking and insulting me!!!!!
“There is a homeless shelter near where I live in University Village and it’s still not as bad as the guys who have made a home under this building.”
Apparently Jenny does live in Iowa….University Village is probably the closest thing to it in Chicago. And the homeless shelter you speak of, I know exactly what you are talking about and there are no houses within at least a block or two from that place…and you can’t tell me it isn’t annoying to drive past there at close to “curfew” and see everyone handing out on both sides of the street stepping in front of cars etc. I am literally laughing that you think this homeless shelter is in your neighborhood as it is totally outside of it…unless of course you live at UPS or inside Jewel. I used to live on the “other side of the tracks” from UV in Pilsen for a few years and would sometimes cut through UV to get to the other side of Roosevelt….it always felt so suburban and secluded to me. If you want the suburban feel, save your money and move to the suburbs!!
“The bottom is here – prices will slowly start rising for the next few years after which larger gains will be seen.”
Do you stand in front of a mirror every morning and repeat this over and over? Do you still own that farm in BFE?
I guess you might also live in the Metra storage yard as well …not just UPS or Jewel….ooops that a Dominicks over there…sorry.
westie, westie, westie, what are we going to do with you? you, like everyone else here are such a hypocrite (bashing me for “insulting people” and then turning around and doing the same thing to others). Anyway, you are very entertaining and i thank you for giving me a laugh or two every time you post. keep it up!!!
“Any chance it’s the same folks trying a De-Lux model?”
Seems different. Different developers listed for this and rockwell place (one of the other leed houses had a property specific llc or whatev, and I stopped looking).
I’d be inclined to say this house makes more sense on a nicer (and appreciably more expensive) lot north of fullerton. There was one $500Kish sale on that block though, so what do I know.
All clio-bashing notwithstanding, rents are rising, and the smart thing to do for a property like this one seems like it would be to do a full cosmetic renovation before it gets shown to renters. If it would get $2500 in that condition (which is a big assumption), I imagine it would be easy to get into the $2800 range with a nice reno with nice bathrooms, floors and a kitchen, which you might be able to do for $40k. It would pencil well that way for me. It’s hard to believe that you couldn’t consistently find renters in that location, regardless of the health of the building.
Not for me, though.
@Local: Generally, you don’t want to go above 30% for rental concentration but it also depends on the specific building and other borrower qualifications. However, there are some cases where the rental percentage doesn’t matter (usually with established buildings and larger down payments). It also depends on if the individual bank has to warrant the condo or if the building is already Fannie/Freddie warranted.
Unfortunately, it is too hard to talk in generalities because there are a lot of “if then” situations on every deal. With that said, 30% is my rule of thumb.
Portfolio/jumbo lenders typically follow Fannie/Freddie and say 30%, but a lot will go to 50%. Most have pretty lenient exception processes as well for strong borrower’s too.
Russ, how hard is it to get an equity loan/line on an investment property nowdays? I and several of my friends own several properties that don’t have any mortgage. If we wanted to tap 20% equity, would it be very difficult?
Onlooker, people who don’t want to be harassed by vagrants shouldn’t have to move out of the city to avoid them. I used to care more about them until being harassed by them so often. They especially seem to like harassing my friend who is in a wheelchair. He has been robbed and screamed at by bums because “he gets a check.” I can’t feel sorry for these bums and I would prefer to not live in building that has bums living underneath.
JJJ, where do you see the rising rents in this bldg? I don’t see them in the subject tier. $2800 is a pipe dream for an 09 unit w/pkg here.
Russ – thanks for the info. I’ve been trying to decide whether to get a lower priced condo at a deal or hold out and get something larger and more luxurious at 700K-800K that I will stay in longer. If I can get financing for the larger unit in an established building that has 33-34% rental, I might go for that over the smaller unit in a building like this that is close to 50% rental but can still FHA finance. The building I’m thinking of (the 700K unit) usually only has 33-34% rental but has gone up in the last year with some corporate relocations (and the owners may come back ot Chicago in 2 years so they don’t want to sell) and hardship cases (twins in a 1 bedroom etc…) I don’t think this building will become a rental building long term because the finances of renting it out are not that cash flow positive like the building shown here. There are expensive amenities that seeem appropriate only for owner occupants, not investors. I have close to 20% downpayment but could have close to 25% by fall. What you think the chances are that someone will lend? I have a strong credit score and the building’s finances and other disclosure issues are strong. The building has just allowed incresed rental during the downturn to avoid foreclosure/walk away situations.
jenny – i agree with you that it is not fun to be harrassed but there will always be more vagrants/ bums/ homeless/ crazies in large cities as it provides them with more resources for food/ shelter etc.
Have you joined any committees or developed any ideas in order to help resolve this issue? If not, then you can’t be too upset by it as you aren’t doing anything to help rectify the issue.
People tend to like to complain but most are lazy or not THAT bothered by the issue and would just prefer to move to a place where they don’t have to deal with such issues.
To each his own I suppose!
I cannot believe someone paid $463,500 for this place – even in 2005.
“Currently I have a construction cost estimate on my desk for rental highrise at $220.00 psf (Construction Cost) which does not include land cost or any associated soft costs.”
It’s nutty sometimes, when rental-housing costs or values are more than owner-occupied. I remember how bizarre it seemed when the Bernadin was being built as a rental, and the rental building (w/ the L’Apettito deli across from Pinnacle) was going condo conversion.
Why didn’t the market just deem the Bernadin for condos, and leave the rental building as is?
Clio: Pretty hard. Most banks don’t want anything to do with equity lines since they are subordinate to first mortgages. Generally capped at 80% LTV and I’d be surprised if any offer it on an investment property. Best bet is probably to check with the Too Big Too Fail banks or a local community bank. Terms are good if you can get them though.
Local: Your chances are probably pretty good, but it is always hard to say these days. EVERY deal is unique and has it’s own nuances. Feel free to contact me directly and I can look at some specific scenarios for you.
I don’t see what’s so soul-sucking about the place. White kitchens are in! Seriously, this place is a blank canvas and people could easily decorate this place any way they like to bring in life. Just get two cool shower curtains as a start!
These units are awesome because you don’t have to deal with Chicago’s elements. You pay the assessment and you crank the A/C to as cool as you want, you never are cold or drafty in the winter, no shoveling snow, no grass to cut, and no flooding to ever deal with. Just live here and sip your martini thinking about all the others dealing with flooding, landscaping, commuting during rush hour rain or snowstorms, and having drafty houses with lousy HVAC.
totally agree with Marcus – I, for one, would love to live in my in-town on a permanent basis.
G, I’m not saying that it’s there now, and I’m not speculating with my own money here. If rents are $2400 with crappy finishes, getting to $2800 with parking within the next couple of years seems pretty reasonable. I do believe that rents are rising, and it seems like a smart reno in this unit would get that money back in 5 – 8 years, ignoring appreciation.
Isn’t clio talking about an equity line as the first secured interest? If so, it seems like that should be easy to get, but I haven’t tried.
Yeah, clio but then you’re stuck in DT high-rise sipping that martini as a lonely person in a transient hood, while all the real people you respect (level-headed parents in the burbs) are living in a real community, living real lives, not virtual ones concocted in the fantasy haze of a few martinis!
“If rents are $2400 with crappy finishes”
They aren’t.
JJJ – i am – but for some reason, it seems next to impossible. I don’t understand that, though – because you are right, they would be in a first position for a default and, if I am only asking for 20% of the value, it would seem to be a very safe prospect.
Clio, if it is in first position and/or only 20% LTV, it would be much easier. I thought you were talking about behind a regular first mortgage with an 80% LTV.
Thanks Russ – but I was shocked that I have been told that it would be hard. Even Wells Fargo told me to go to another local bank!!! I just don’t understand it – one property I am talking about is a 600k rental house in hinsdale- totally paid off – I want to get 100k out of it but WF is shying away. Weird….
Clio, call me…
Thanks Russ –
Gary – re: low inventory levels
I have to think that as soon as there are any signs of an upturn a flood of properties will enter the market. I don’t know if there’s any way to quantify it, but anecdotally there has to be a ton of people waiting and hoping for a good time to put their place on the market. And not just in the “undesirable” areas as clio thinks.
RE_novice, I actually agree with you – but those properties are non-distressed with owners who will be willing to continue to wait for the price they want. Also, with these properties coming on the market, there will be more choices and more sales….. things will get back to normal.
“I have to think that as soon as there are any signs of an upturn a flood of properties will enter the market. I don’t know if there’s any way to quantify it, but anecdotally there has to be a ton of people waiting and hoping for a good time to put their place on the market. And not just in the “undesirable” areas as clio thinks.”
You are correct that there is a bunch of inventory waiting on the sidelines. I’ve been saying this. However, i don’t think they are going to “flood” back onto the market. They will trickle out and keep prices depressed for a few years. But I don’t see this pushing prices down further.
“Sad_at_Plaza 440 what are your thoughts?”
Damn, I’m busy at work and missed the thread. Setting my general views aside for the moment, $236k for a two bedroom with parking actually is pretty low. I’d guess that it goes for that price or maybe even slightly above.
Now to my general view. My general views are that this is a great place to rent, but not a good place to buy. The building was built as a rental, and most of the condos have rental quality finishes. Also, I doubt that people plan on living here long term, though of course the crash may have changed that. I’ve heard of buildings in other cities that converted from condos to rental units, and some enterprising real estate mogul may want to try that with building.
Moreover, since late 2008, about a quarter of the condos have been sold. While maybe some of these places were bought in all cash deals, I’d guess that at least half (and probably well over half) of the people that live here are underwater. So you’ll be looking at short sales and foreclosures in this building for years to come.
“There is a tiny pocket around this building that just isn’t nice. There is a staircase leading from upper to lower wabash, for instance. I can’t count the number of times I have seen empty beer cans and porn strewn about on the staircase.”
I walk down the stairs from upper Wabash to Hubbard almost every day, and have never had any from under the building come up to me. I’ll admit that one time I was panhandled right in front of the building (and that’s also a stationary panhandler who sets up about 100 feet south of the building each week day) but that’s just something you have to put up with in River North.
But what about the bum situation S@P440?
“at least half (and probably well over half) of the people that live here are underwater. So you’ll be looking at short sales and foreclosures in this building for years to come.”
WRONG WRONG WRONG – again, it doesn’t matter if you are underwater right now. If you can afford your monthly payment and have staying power for the next few years, there is no reason for your unit to become a short sale or foreclosure. WTF is wrong with people nowadays? They want everything perfect and nice and in an instant. They have absolutely no staying power – unfuckingbelievable!!!! Seriously, think about it, within 5 years those underwater people are no longer going to be underwater – each month they are paying down their mortgage and each month prices are slowly going to start increasing.
“and each month prices are slowly going to start increasing.”
So it never really happens? Or, will they always decrease later in the month?
G – on another thread, you are arguing that most people who live in expensive places couldn’t afford them now (because they bought the place several years ago) – so why does my theory of “staying put” for 10-20 years any different. Are you disagreeing that in twenty years, some of the people that are underwater right now but stay put actually will be in an enviable situation? Those same people, if they continue to rent, may not be able to buy their same unit in twenty years.
“WRONG WRONG WRONG – again, it doesn’t matter if you are underwater right now. If you can afford your monthly payment and have staying power for the next few years, there is no reason for your unit to become a short sale or foreclosure.”
A few points:
1. Being underwater means people are less likely to maintain or upgrade their units, so it has an effect now.
2. Because of how badly prices have fallen at Plaza 440 and the way loans are amortized, you could pay off a thirty loan for 10-15 years yet still be underwater on a unit here.
3. Given the size of the units, location, etc., Plaza 440 is not meant for people to live long-term (10 to 20 years), but rather to live for a while and then upgrade. This is one reason why this place was better as a rental rather than condos.
4. While I hope for obvious reasons that Plaza 440’s prices bounce back to 2006 levels, I seriously doubt that it’s going to happen within 5 years or even 10 years. The people who currently are underwater are going to be so by the time they want to move, which is giong to mean more short sales or allowing the bank to foreclose.
Sad – it’s time to turn that frown upside down. Again, staying power is EVERYTHING in life – and real estate is no exception. Even if people don’t stay in their units, they are likely able to rent out the units without difficulty. Even if you are down 200-300/month, the increased value in 10 years will more than compensate for that loss. Remember, 10 years is a LONG LONG time. Just think, we have only been in this bust for 3 years (although it seems like decades) – so don’t worry so much – everything will be ok – you are in a good location and prices will come back faster than you think.
Marcus,
I agree on the positive aspects of high-rise living. And maybe with some new decor, this unit wouldn’t be soul sucking. It is a great location. Theres’s just something so depressing about those interior photos.
“G – on another thread, you are arguing that most people who live in expensive places couldn’t afford them now (because they bought the place several years ago)”
Never argued that at all. I said many, not most, long time owners in Kenilworth. I realize that your distortion of the easily provable opinions of others is necessary in order to maintain your Napolean brain complex.
G – stick to the facts – no need for name calling unless you are realizing your “facts” don’t speak for themselves!!!!
I rented a unit exactly like this one in Plaza 440 from 2000-01 (and this unit looks just like my unit did back then) Rent back then was like $1800/month. The location is great and we never had to drive anywhere. The building amenities were great too.
That said, I didn’t want to live there long term (and we never planned to), and I was ready to move after a year.
That complex is a fact.
But ok, here are the facts that speak for themselves about your typical style of distorting the opinions of others in order to overcompensate for your shortcomings:
G comment about Kenilworth:
“some of that is explained by the fact that many long time residents could not afford to buy their house today.”
Clio’s distortion:
“G – on another thread, you are arguing that most people who live in expensive places couldn’t afford them now (because they bought the place several years ago)”
G – again, your explanation is confusing….. but then again, that is your “style”. Whatever, you are boring me with your idiotic posts. Stick to the data…..
“no need for name calling unless you are realizing your “facts” don’t speak for themselves!!!!”
I don’t like the Congress Hotel – that area is depressing…..
“the majority of the shadow inventory is in areas that are traditionally considered undesirable – also, many of the properties are tear downs…everyone keeps anxiously awaiting the “shadow inventory” – where is it? huh?”
The shadow inventory is ALL OVER. A lot if it is in new construction! Not tear downs. Where is it? Look around. I’m living in new construction shadow inventory, so are at least a third of my neighbors. Get real.
“WRONG WRONG WRONG – again, it doesn’t matter if you are underwater right now. If you can afford your monthly payment and have staying power for the next few years, there is no reason for your unit to become a short sale or foreclosure. WTF is wrong with people nowadays? They want everything perfect and nice and in an instant. They have absolutely no staying power – unfuckingbelievable!!!! Seriously, think about it, within 5 years those underwater people are no longer going to be underwater – each month they are paying down their mortgage and each month prices are slowly going to start increasing.”
Anybody who still paying on an ’05 through ’09 mortgage at this point is a fool. With every passing year those people are even more underwater than they were the year before. Even if you can afford your monthly payment, you’re throwing good money after bad. There are many 10-20 unit buildings were NOTHING has sold either at all or as a non-distressed sale since the peak of the bubble. Those “owners” get to be ignorantly bliss, imagining that they haven’t lost 20, 30, 50% of a large amount of money they never even had in the first place. Eventually all of those people are going to wake up and realize what the lenders do not want them to know.
BradF – are you really as dumb as you sound? So what if these people are underwater right now? All they have to do is wait another 5-10 years and they will be way above water. Remember, that, unlike a stock, real estate also serves another HUGE purpose. Your generalized statement about “anyone paying mortgages on properties bought between 2005-2009 is a fool” is completely idiotic and immature – seriously, go back to your baby bottle. This is a site for mature adults.
I actually rofled at this
“This is a site for mature adults.”
“no need for name calling unless you are realizing your “facts” don’t speak for themselves!!!!”
“All they have to do is wait another 5-10 years and they will be way above water.”
Step 1: wait another 5-10 years
Step 2:
Step 3: profit
Hey if anyone wants more unintended humor and nonsense, check out the NAR radio broadcast “Real Estate Today.” I listened last night for the first time and couldn’t believe it. Of course they announced when would be the best time to buy RE and guess what? They said it is “RIGHT NOW”. Wow, what a surprise! They also said they are “the most trusted source”. Of course they said all that at the peak of the bubble and every year so far on the way down too. But I guess they are credible, they are real estate professionals after all. But they funny part is that they bring in an actual retarded person to espouse at length as to why now is the best time to buy. I have no problem with mentally disabled people, but seriously as real estate forecaster on a show produced by a national organization! Really? They also use all kinds of loaded language and rock and ambient music during breaks to help convince people. It’s like a tv evangelism show, except it’s for real estate. Hilarious.
http://www.retradio.com/listennow.html
RENT till you’re RICH – Don’t BUY and CRY.
Step 1: wait another 5-10 years (like everyone else – voluntary or involuntary)
Step 2:
Step 3: profit
“And the homeless shelter you speak of, I know exactly what you are talking about and there are no houses within at least a block or two from that place…and you can’t tell me it isn’t annoying to drive past there at close to “curfew” and see everyone handing out on both sides of the street stepping in front of cars etc.”
Don’t worry Jenny- the women on this blog know what you are talking about with the bums on the street versus the homeless shelters.
No man can relate to a woman’s instincts about what is creepy on a street. We know, instinctively, what dark alleys or stairways we don’t like. Men don’t even think of these things. And it has NOTHING to do with moving back to Iowa or that all cities have crime.
I’ve lived near numerous homeless shelters over the years. They NEVER bothered me because the homeless go there, wait in line to get in and go in. They usually don’t bother anyone else. But those guys living on the streets under the viaducts or whatnot- that is a completely different thing altogether.
i don’t see parking included in the listing description. The redfin listing information section says
Sale Price Does Not Include Parking
Listing Agent Must Accompany
Possession: Closing
Holds Earnest Money: Yes
Parking was in the listing yesterday. So maybe the agent changed it after seeing our chatter.
But the property sold in 2005 WITH the parking. It is deeded separately, so it’s possible the bank will try and sell it separately- but usually it includes it with the sale.