Nearly 3 Years Later and Now Bank Owned: 507 W. Aldine in Lakeview
We’ve been chattering about this 2-bedroom unit at 507 W. Aldine in East Lakeview for nearly 3 years.
See our original chatter in February 2009 and pictures here.
In that time, it was a regular listing, then went to short sale, went into contract several times, dropped out of contract and now, finally, is a bank owned unit.
It is now listed $102,500 under the 2007 purchase price.
It has vintage features such as an entry foyer, a separate dining room and a wood burning fireplace.
It looks like the kitchen is still intact and still has the stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops.
The unit has an in-unit washer/dryer and deeded parking, which is rare for East Lakeview, but no central air (window units only.)
Is this finally a deal?
Saul Zenkevicius at Goodwill Realty Group has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit#2B: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, dining room, no square footage listed
- Sold in May 1995 for $154,000
- Sold in June 1998 for $199,000
- Sold in April 2000 for $243,000
- Sold in March 2007 for $379,000
- Was listed in February 2009 for $410,000 (included the parking)
- Reduced
- Was listed in March 2009 for $399,900 (included the parking)
- Reduced
- Was listed in May 2009 for $375,000 (included the parking)
- Reduced
- Was listed as a short sale in June 2009 for $339,000
- Under contract
- Re-listed in September 2009 for $339,000
- Under contract
- Lis pendens foreclosure filed in December 2009
- Re-listed in May 2010 for $325,000
- Withdrawn in July 2010
- Bank owned in September 2010
- Currently listed for $276,500
- Assessments of $362 a month (includes heat)
- Taxes of $5365
- No central air- only window units
- In-unit Washer/Dryer
- Wood-burning fireplace
- Deeded parking included
- Bedroom #1: 14×12
- Bedroom #2: 12×11
probably a decent starting price now, but don’t we all suspect there is something else going on w this place (what with it falling out of K multiple times)?
this is a GREAT buy. It is at or even below what you could rent it for – if it doesn’t sell fast, this is more due to the idiotic mortgage requirements as opposed to pricing.
LOVE the dining room;) this place checks off a ton of boxes. Decent size rooms, in-unit laundry. A/C shouldn’t be too big of a deal for vintage lovers (although it does admittedly reduce your buyer pool). It will be interetsing to see what happens especially with the odd history.
read the previous thread nevermind.
From Anonny from the previous thread:
“They’ll either sell this place for roughly what they paid (give or take a few grand) or, if they really need to move because of space reasons, they can rent it out for $2k/mo and go rent a suitable place (be it in the suburbs or right down the street) for just a bit more. “These people” are obviously not destitute and are likely not looking for assistance under the housing plan announced today; if the majority of people who bought condos and starter houses in this country over the past several years were more like “these people,” the economy wouldn’t be in the shape it’s in.
The wave of mortgage defaults that began to sweep the country nearly two years ago and eventually poisoned billions of dollars in mortgage-backed-securities did not originate (and has yet to arrive) in Lincoln Park or East Lakeview. ”
What say you now?
i wonder why this never closed after it went under contract multiple times…
Well, I still say that the “wave” of defaults has yet to arrive in LP or ELV (this bank sale is not evidence of any “wave”).
I really don’t see why they couldn’t sell for the low 300’s; perhaps their last list price of $325k was their absolute breaking point; perhaps they’ve made the strategic decision that many have made, which is to pocket their housing cost, wait until they’re forced out, then start over (if they haven’t already) elsewhere, as renters for a while. Who knows.
I think its a good buy at list… I bet it trades at $290K (barring any “weird” stuff, like a looming 10,000 special assessment or something).
Given the complications of short sales I think its likely that there were impatient buyers, impatient sellers, incompetent agents, or incomptetent bankers involved. Probably a combination. So two contracts on a short sale falling through is possible especially given the issues about the condo mentioned in the prev thread.
didn’t it have a failed contract *before* it was in short sale? I don’t feel like digging through all the previous chatters, but I seem to remember that was the case.
Of course, it could have been an attempted short sale not explicitly advertised as such.
and for the record, score one for HD, who said almost two years ago this was a foreclosure waiting to happen. Maybe not that bold a prediction, but obviously others disagreed at the time. So, got to give the credit, ya’ll, where it is due.
word, roma.
And let me add a personal mea culpa in general to HD.
He was right, I was wrong in all neighborhoods and all price predictions.
Thanks for the shout out. For some reason I was particularily ranty that february 18th 2009. The long winter and a stressful job can set me off. Early 2009 was a tough time for a lot of people.
There is a greater than 50/50 chance any propery purchased with less than 10% down between 2004-2007 will become a foreclosure regardless of neighborhood. The rational thing to do for most people is to walk away.
“anonny on February 18th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
“These people” are most likely still dutifully making their mortgage payments. And chances are, it’s not a subprime mortgage.
They’ll either sell this place for roughly what they paid (give or take a few grand) or, if they really need to move because of space reasons, they can rent it out for $2k/mo ”
No, anonny. Reality proved you wrong. You are stupid.
“kn on February 18th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
I’d buy it for 300k without parking and 310k with.”
Well you best hop to, kn. Because the place of your dreams is now available for the price you want! But realistically I think you probably are not in a position to buy this place for 310k as you likely are tied to another piece of RE. Apparently your reality at the time was tinted through rose colored glasses. Realistically you were just a RE cheerleader blowing smoke.
If you go to the Goodwill Realty site (they have the listing now that it’s bank owned), there are about 40 photos of this place. The photos show a lot more detail than the pretty pictures on RedFin. There’s plaster damage in the LR and DR. A window has been covered up in the kitchen (ugh!). The cabinets on one side of the kitchen don’t appear to match the cabinets on the other side (where the fridge is). The tile floor in one of the bathrooms has a large crack running down the middle. The place needs to be repainted throughout as there are smudges and dirt lines on the walls. Unless you’re a handy DIY’er, this place would require some fix-up $$ to rent out or re-sell. I see a price drop coming…
I think every apartment I ever rented in Chicago had that same bathroom floor tile, and man, even as a vintage lover, it’s gross stuff. The grout isn’t black, it just looks that way.
Old radiators are awesome when they work well, super efficent and give off nice, steady heat. But they have their own specific maintenance issues, like bleeding (ever tried to find a Home Depot employee who knows what a radiator key is?) And if things go really wrong, it’s pretty difficult to replace them. I think there’s only one place in Chicago that carries them, most of the architectural salvage shops won’t buy them because they’re such a PITA to move, and most of them were scrapped, anyway. The thing that bothers me the most about these radiators, though, is that some of them are boxed in (air circulation is essential to radiator functioning, and you don’t know what their condition is like behid those wood boxes) and at least one of them seems way too small. I dunno, it just seems like a poor heating set-up to me.
“There is a greater than 50/50 chance any propery purchased with less than 10% down between 2004-2007 will become a foreclosure regardless of neighborhood. The rational thing to do for most people is to walk away.”
Don’t we all personally know people who are in this situation? I have two friends who are short selling right now (both moved out of the Chicago area for job reasons.) But I know several others who simply want to sell the condo and move to the suburbs. They are all stuck. The most they put down was 10%. They don’t have the money to bring cash to the closing. When will they ultimately walk away? And believe me, they have no intention on raising their kids in their 2/2s. And renting it out will not cover their costs.
This is why housing prices will stay depressed for years- not merely months- at least in the condo market.
I personally know a couple that as a result of breaking up stopped paying in November. In normal circumstances they would sell the unit and split the $profit$ but in today’s market, a 3.5% down payment on a house purchased in 2007 means zero equity.
” But I know several others who simply want to sell the condo and move to the suburbs……And believe me, they have no intention on raising their kids in their 2/2s. And renting it out will not cover their costs”
uhhh – where do they expect to live in the suburbs? If you go through a short sale/foreclosure, there is no way in hell that you are going to be able to buy a place for a long long time (if ever). Suburban house rentals are VERY expensive (for a semi-decent place) – plus the monthly costs of a house are SO MUCH higher than a 2/2 – your friends will be dying to get back to a condo. The grass may seem greener on the other side, but your friends would be wise to stay put for a little longer if they can – the alternative is not much prettier!
“uhhh – where do they expect to live in the suburbs? If you go through a short sale/foreclosure, there is no way in hell that you are going to be able to buy a place for a long long time (if ever). Suburban house rentals are VERY expensive (for a semi-decent place) – plus the monthly costs of a house are SO MUCH higher than a 2/2 – your friends will be dying to get back to a condo. The grass may seem greener on the other side, but your friends would be wise to stay put for a little longer if they can – the alternative is not much prettier!”
That’s my whole point Clio. What are their options? The only one is to stay where they are. And many don’t want to do so. They either bought the 2/2 in a neighborhood where the community school isn’t viable or there are other issues (lugging kids in car seats up 3 flights of stairs etc.) I’m not saying they couldn’t stay in the 2/2 for the next 5 to 10 years. But most of them do not. There isn’t much to stop them from renting a house in the suburbs and simply letting the condo go into foreclosure.
“There isn’t much to stop them from renting a house in the suburbs and simply letting the condo go into foreclosure.”
Sabrina, that is MY point – your friends should really think it through before doing that. If they let their condo go into foreclosure, they will be unable to buy a house for several years – and there are very few decent house rentals in the suburbs that want long term renters (most of the long term rentals are crapshacks – the nicer rentals are people just biding their time until the market improves). Also, the cost of renting a house in the suburbs is quite high – check it out (and also remember to factor in the higher cost of electricity/gas/H2O – as well as lawn maint., snow removal, etc.). Your friends seriously might do better by staying put.
“There isn’t much to stop them from renting a house in the suburbs and simply letting the condo go into foreclosure.”
Suburban rentals tend to suck. The houses in the suburbs that are built for today’s lifestyles tend to be owned and not rentals, regardless of the market. If you don’t like asbestous, 1950s kitchen or split level homes, you probably need to buy to have city-quality amenities in the suburbs. While I think city denizens are spoiled with all the finishes they think they “need”, it is what is is, and the suburbs (at least within 1 hr consistent commute of downtown) do not offer this except for a big price premium.
“Also, the cost of renting a house in the suburbs is quite high – check it out (and also remember to factor in the higher cost of electricity/gas/H2O – as well as lawn maint., snow removal, etc.). Your friends seriously might do better by staying put.”
This is the dilemma right? This is why the housing market will not improve for years. The 20/30 something move-up buyer can no longer move up. If they bought the city condo, they are stuck there unless they had an enormous amount of equity. And then they are losing most of that but at least can move (as we saw with that Uptown condo on Malden, which did close. Those sellers apparently just wanted to move to the suburbs so they took the loss and got out of there.)
Most owners aren’t as lucky. So you have 1 child. What happens when you have the second child? You COULD have 2 kids in a 2/2. Of course. But unless you’re in a select few school districts- what do you do then? We’ll have to see how it all plays out. Maybe Chicago will suddenly really become an urban city- with more staying in the city because they are trapped there.
This spring is going to be very, very interesting. The agents I’ve talked to are all telling me about massive numbers of properties they are readying to list as everyone is chomping at the bit for spring selling season- thinking it will be “better.”
Oh- and yes. Many, many current owners won’t be able to buy for years because the short sale/foreclosure will damage their credit. Although one friend who is doing a short sale has said the bank is telling him it will only drag down his credit score for 2 years. Not a bad trade-off to get out of a house. He is paying $15,000 to put the short sale through. The banks are taking a $125,000 loss.
A short sale – as long as he hasn’t stopped making payments already – will ding his score hard for about two years and it will affect him materially for about 3 or 4 years due to tightened Fannie/Freddie/FHA rules pertaining to foreclosures. The short sale stays on the credit for seven whereas a foreclosure is for 10 years.
Suburban homes as rental do suck, from what I’ve seen, and I know a handful of people who rent homes.
Thankfully, developers solved this problem many years ago. There are plenty of luxury 2 and 3 bedroom apartment in large complexes dotting the landscape all throughout the suburbs.
Futhermore, there is a large shadow market of homes available for rent. Usually by people who have already moved but couldn’t sell for the price they wanted. Accidental landlords.
Looked at the Goodwill Realty photos. The kitchen cabinets DO match- the apparent mismatch is due to the lighting in the photo- but the kitchen window is partially blocked by wood shelves, and the bathrooms look horrible and need complete renovation. The bathrooms will be costly to redo.
The repainting and plaster repair is no big deal- you’d mostly want to repaint no matter what and plaster repair is easy. So those little things really don’t count. But somebody might also want to strip all the paint off the doors and refinish the wood as it was originally and that is a real pain in the neck.
AS for the radiators, they need to be replaced with newer,more efficient radiators. I know of a couple of buildings with central steam systems that have done this, in addition to replacing old boilers, which everyone does. Both the radiators and the boiler each make a massive difference in the building’s heat bills, and if ever it was urgent to replace old components with something vastly more modern and efficient, this is the time, what with gas prices lagging oil prices so much. This won’t always be the case- at some point gas prices will ratchet back up into parity with oil, so best make this necessary upgrade now before the gas bills overrun you.
Given what I’m seeing of Lakeview vintage buildings, especially high rises, this price is fair, but no bargain. Many of the vintage high rises I’m seeing that look bargain priced are languishing on the market for many months. This building isn’t as costly to run as an old high rise, but it isn’t cheap, either.
Sabrina,
Your friends sound like whining entitled yuppie offspring. Seriously, they are 20/30 year olds who already bought a condo – now are complaining because they need to upsize and are looking for a quick fix solution. Sorry, man – this is life. Learn to deal with it- they shouldn’t be allowed to get out of these situations so easily.
On a more compassionate note, things will certainly get better for them. Seriously – most 20/30 year olds are nowhere near their earning potential. Throw in an inheritance, good luck/opportunity and they, and more “saving years” and they will be fine in 10 years. If they don’t want to wait that long, tell them to get divorced and marry someone rich – they have already proven that they are morally bankrupt (by letting their condo/house go even though they can afford it) – why not just take the next tiny step – they are already almost there!!
“And believe me, they have no intention on raising their kids in their 2/2s. And renting it out will not cover their costs.”
Again, after repeated requests (challenges?), I think the masters of the RE universe on here provided a link to one rental listing that met my stated criteria (my so-called unicorn), and perhaps another which missed on a couple of criteria. And the one that did meet every criteria did so just barely (i.e., the location, while within my stated boundaries, was not great).
Now, while at least one CC regular’s stock response to my request/challenge was “use the Internet and find it yourself,” please note that I wasn’t necessarily asking for those rental listings so that I could run out and sign a lease. Rather, with just days to go before closing on a place, I wanted to see how easy it would be for me to rent, and not buy, a comp, for roughly the same monthly costs as the place I was preparing to purchase. Yes, I too obviously have access to the Internet, and was performing that same rental search (and continue to do so occassionally). But I’m still not finding many (or any) places that meet my unicorn criteria.
Does that not tend to indicate that I COULD rent out my current place for at least my monthly carrying costs? Let me put it another way: I would have happily rented my current place for at least its monthly carrying costs, and perhaps a bit more. But I purchased it. It met, and in a few ways, exceeded my unicorn criteria. So whether I stay here for 3 years or 6 years or 12 years before attempting to rent it out or sell it, I won’t have been paying some other person’s mortgage down while providing him or her with an interest deduction, and I’ll have been paying no more than I would have been willing to spend to rent the place.
As an aside, one which I suppose is related to my above mild rant, while I’ve appreciated and continue to benefit from the generally bearish and critical views expressed on here (it certainly influenced my decision to put off buying until now, having started my search 2 years ago), I must say that the majority CC view (i.e., that only an idiotic knifecatcher would buy a place right now, let alone a 2 bedroom condo) is certainly not the majority view among the folks I know. Yes, I know a couple of so-called fence-sitters, but they’d be sitting it out regardless of the state of the RE market, for other reasons. Honestly, I was surprised how many people I know were buying places last winter (many of whom would be called knifecatchers on CC), and how many move-up buyers I know (some of whom have rented out their condos at roughly cost or perhaps just under, others who sold for a tiny or no gain, etc.).
For me, it comes down to one thing: You’ve got to live somewhere. Some folks have certain criteria for the place in which they’ll live and, within reason, are willing and able to pay to live in a place that meets those criteria. Opting to buy such a place, when the cost of doing so is no more than renting it, hardly makes one a devotee of Clionomics.
Thanks anonny for agreeing with me (but doing so at a “distance”). I really wonder if the people that spout all this nonsense about the imminent demise of real estate truly believe it or just are being provocative. I hope it is the latter – because, if not, they will be really embarrassed in a few years. Also, I hope others that read these posts don’t get discouraged about buying – you are 100% correct – they will needa a place to live for the rest of their lives. Sure they can rent for a few years – but it just doesn’t make sense after that. Also, because we are at/near the bottom, if these people buy now, chances are that they will do fine even if they sell in 3-5 years (given the steep discounts available now).
Funny how so many people you know are bucking the real estate trends. The sales figures speak for themselves. And they are dismal.
HD
You work in a field that is clouding your judgement and gives you a very skewed view of the real estate market. Are sales down? Of course. Are prices down? Kind of – but remember that this is just a snapshot of what is going on – this is NOT a prediction of things to come. Don’t underestimate the psychological “need” for Americans to own their own homes. Americans are not used to suffering or compromising like most of the rest of the world. They are innovative and creative and WILL find ways to continue to buy houses. I wish I had more money to invest in real estate now – NOW IS THE TIME TO BUY – for many many reasons.
“while I’ve appreciated and continue to benefit from the generally bearish and critical views expressed on here (it certainly influenced my decision to put off buying until now, having started my search 2 years ago), I must say that the majority CC view (i.e., that only an idiotic knifecatcher would buy a place right now, let alone a 2 bedroom condo) is certainly not the majority view among the folks I know.”
I don’t actually disagree with where you have ended up as a position, but there’s a lot I don’t follow or agree with about the above:
1. I don’t think what you describe as the current majority CC opinion is correct. There are certainly people with the idiotic knifecatcher view, but I don’t think it’s clearly the majority view (if by knifecatcher we mean 20%+ in real terms).
2. Even if you were correct about the majority CC view in (1), it’s not exactly disproven by pointing out that it differs from the majority view among people generally (or among people you know). That’s kinda the whole point. It differed from majority view during the bubble, but that fact did not disprove it.
“You work in a field that is clouding your judgement and gives you a very skewed view of the real estate market.”
I think your considerable success gives you a very skewed view. If everyone were capable of investing and getting the OB mansion/lambo/fancy in-town trifecta, and the attendant high life, then they should listen to you, but you forget how many people are out there with poor decision-making and investment skills and no amount of advice from you, no matter how persuasive and useful, is going to change that.
“I really wonder if the people that spout all this nonsense about the imminent demise of real estate truly believe it or just are being provocative.”
Straw man.
“They are innovative and creative and WILL find ways to continue to buy houses.”
Nothing that lower prices won’t solve. And they WILL.
G –
prices COULD go a little lower – but in the long term (10 years) they will be much higher than now. So instead of throwing money away on rent for the next 1-2 years (waiting for the bottom), why not go out and buy now. Seriously, add up the money you are spending or going to spend on rent and see how much that really is – it is quite a bit.
Also, I have nothing to gain from the positions I take on this site. I, for one, should be hoping for STEEP declines in real estate prices (so that I can buy more real estate) and I should be ENCOURAGING people to rent (since I own several rentals). The fact that I believe the opposite to be happening should demonstrate that my opinions are not based on my own fantasy and benefit, but are based on experience, fact, and other intangible data.
“Are prices down? Kind of”
What do you consider “kind of”? 30%? 40%? 50%?
Because that is how much prices are “down” now- all over the city of Chicago (and in some places- it is worse than 50%.)
“while I’ve appreciated and continue to benefit from the generally bearish and critical views expressed on here (it certainly influenced my decision to put off buying until now, having started my search 2 years ago), I must say that the majority CC view (i.e., that only an idiotic knifecatcher would buy a place right now, let alone a 2 bedroom condo) is certainly not the majority view among the folks I know.” now, let alone a 2 bedroom condo) is certainly not the majority view among the folks I know.”
Being a knifecatcher doesn’t make someone an idiot. If you can afford it and won’t mind seeing better deals to come, buy it, enjoy it, and know that my children thank you.
“Your friends sound like whining entitled yuppie offspring. Seriously, they are 20/30 year olds who already bought a condo – now are complaining because they need to upsize and are looking for a quick fix solution. Sorry, man – this is life. Learn to deal with it- they shouldn’t be allowed to get out of these situations so easily.”
You’re agreeing with my point Clio. There are thousands of 20/30 year olds “stuck” in their condos with no way to move except to give it back to the bank. It has vast implications for the housing market and many neighborhoods. Perhaps some neighborhood schools will be improved because many parents will have no choice but to put those kids in those schools. Either that or many private schools will spring up to meet the demand.
“Also, I have nothing to gain from the positions I take on this site.”
I hope not since they are not persuasive.
“There are thousands of 20/30 year olds “stuck” in their condos with no way to move except to give it back to the bank.”
WAIT A MINUTE HERE – THERE IS A CHOICE: PAY YOUR FRICKIN’ MORTGAGE!!! This is what is wrong with this generation. When the going gets a little tough and they don’t get it their way, they whine, complain and look for the easy out. If these people have the money to pay their mortgages, they should not be bailed out. OBviously these people have money (or you would not be saying that “private schools will spring up to meet the demand”). This is irritating and maddening to see these spoiled whiners get away with this.
“If you can afford it and won’t mind seeing better deals to come, buy it, enjoy it, and know that my children thank you.”
why would your children thank them? This doesn’t make sense.
Clio is hilarious. Not only his RE predictions but also when he starts to type in all caps. I guess he really does live in a bubble living in that highrise.
In any case it will be fun in the future pushing his buttons.
“G –
prices COULD go a little lower – but in the long term (10 years) they will be much higher than now.”
Prices can go a LOT lower, and in ten years time I see no catalyst for “much higher” than now. I doubt you can predict the future, clio-san. And your attempts at doing so make you look foolish.
“Prices can go a LOT lower, and in ten years time I see no catalyst for “much higher” than now.”
Again, the psychology of Americans will ensure continued interest in home buying. This is not rational but is real. I live it everyday and see it everyday – people WANT to buy – even on this site, the biggest negative nellies are the ones who are in the market (even you) and continue to look. Why is that?!! Come on – teach by example. You KNOW THAT YOU ARE THROWING YOUR MONEY AWAY BY BEING A LONG TERM RENTER – THAT IS UNDISPUTABLE !!!! (Yeah, I did that last part for in caps for your benefit).
If you want proof of the idiotic psychology of americans – take a look at the popularity of “Air Jordans” and other ridiculously expensive crap. Poor people who can barely afford food, who are living in public housing on food stamps are buying these things. Why is that?!!! Is that rational?!! Could you predict that, Bob?! No – again psychology TRUMPS All.
“Again, the psychology of Americans will ensure continued interest in home buying. ”
There is no doubt that the psychology of Americans fostered the boom. I also have little doubt that the psychology of home ownership as a status symbol/something desired still exists to this day.
However, unlike during the boom the consumer is tapped out. They, by and large, are not able to act on their economically irrational decisions anymore. Because banks actually have resumed their long-standing responsibility of being a gatekeeper of money.
“You KNOW THAT YOU ARE THROWING YOUR MONEY AWAY BY BEING A LONG TERM RENTER – THAT IS UNDISPUTABLE !!!! ”
No throwing one’s money away would’ve been purchasing a piece of Chicago RE a year ago, especially a condo.
Case Shiller shows condo values lost 9.1% of their value over the past year. The usually bullish NAR is showing they declined 16.2% over the past year.
To ignore that, and other data in the face of our current economic backdrop is to be a fool.
NAR
http://www.realtor.org/wps/wcm/connect/2e1b750044a34536adc9ef5d6aeab3b5/REL10Q3CT.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=2e1b750044a34536adc9ef5d6aeab3b5
“No – again psychology TRUMPS All.”
Yes, it certainly did the past decade. However that errant psychology was fostered by lax lending standards that let the Air Jordan crowd essentially set the price of real estate at the margins.
“Case Shiller shows condo values lost 9.1% of their value over the past year”
You have got to be kidding – do you even know how to properly analyze data? CS is an INDEX not meant to assess individual properties. In addition, it is based on sales (which have been ridiculously skewed by the percentages of foreclosures and short sales and overall decrease in numbers of sales). If you want accurate numbers, you HAVE to compare apples to apples. I seriously hope you are not that stupid and you DO realize this but are using CS just to bolster your ridiculous prediction that we are headed for a continued downward spiral of real estate prices.
“CS is an INDEX not meant to assess individual properties.”
Just like the S&P 500 is an index representing the 500 largest equities and is not meant of an indicator to assess individual stocks.
And I’m also saying I don’t believe you are competent enough to correctly “stock pick” and beat the index.
“your ridiculous prediction that we are headed for a continued downward spiral of real estate prices.”
Yes extrapolating a trendline is a ridiculous prediction. LOL.
In case you DON’T understand how CS has been so misused on this site, I will present an analogy: At a particular level one trauma center, 50% of people in car accidents die. So would I be wrong in stating that, in general, 50% of people involved in car accidents die? Of course – but this is the same thing you morons are doing while misinterpreting CS data.
“And I’m also saying I don’t believe you are competent enough to correctly “stock pick” and beat the index.”
Take a look at my stock portfolio and then talk…. this just gives me more reason to believe you talk out of your ass.
“At a particular level one trauma center, 50% of people in car accidents die. So would I be wrong in stating that, in general, 50% of people involved in car accidents die? ”
Incorrect analogy as by definition the CS index is supposed to represent what is currently selling on the market and at what prices (so in your analogy, representative of all car accidents). Just because some are distressed and creating a significant drag on the index does not diminish its validity.
For clio’s massaging of the CS index to exclude distressed, why don’t we also just exclude those properties that have declined in price altogether? That would be an excellent soviet chart, comrade.
“Just because some are distressed and creating a significant drag on the index does not diminish its validity.”
Yes it does – it says nothing about the overwhelming majority of housing that is doing fine.
OK – if you don’t like my analogy, how about this one. The average price of a car is 20k, down from 22k – so does that mean that a laborghini is worth 10% less than before also?
“I think there’s only one place in Chicago that carries [radiators]”
?? Community Home Supply is the *ONLY* place in Chicago to get a radiator? Seems implausible.
But then, you’ve actually (a) gone to Home Depot to get a radiator key, and (b) asked someone there about it. So maybe “where to go for non-mass-market hardware supplies” isn’t in Peg’s realm of expertise.
“OK – if you don’t like my analogy, how about this one. The average price of a car is 20k, down from 22k – so does that mean that a laborghini is worth 10% less than before also?”
Noone on here is part of the lambo set. And nor are we like to be. The dynamics of the high-end segment may very well be completely different but that is inconsequential to everyone else posting on here. You seem to prefer extrapolating your insights from that segment to the other segments further down the rungs, and that is an erroneous inference.
“Again, after repeated requests (challenges?), I think the masters of the RE universe on here provided a link to one rental listing that met my stated criteria (my so-called unicorn), and perhaps another which missed on a couple of criteria. And the one that did meet every criteria did so just barely (i.e., the location, while within my stated boundaries, was not great).”
Where is Park Ridge?
OK Bob – but that is my point – you CANNOT take CS and extrapolate it to all of real estate in all areas – and this is what most people here do (which, in turn, scares others who are too confused/stupid/lazy to figure it out themselves). This is fear-mongering at its best.
“This is irritating and maddening to see these spoiled whiners get away with this.”
and you dont think top level bankers getting away with the shyte they pull is crazy irkified?
we owe no special sympathy or ethical reasoning to a bank.
“fear-mongering at its best”
Demagoguery.
“but that is my point – you CANNOT take CS and extrapolate it to all of real estate in all areas – and this is what most people here do”
How come your point is so often a straw man?
@ anon (tfo) and Peg Bundy:
“?? Community Home Supply is the *ONLY* place in Chicago to get a radiator? Seems implausible.”
I’m curious about the radiator question too. I’m looking at a 3 family house at the moment. Haven’t made an offer yet, because I’ve been waiting for the listing agent to get back to me on some questions for 3 days now, (ugh). The house has gas heat. I don’t like gas. It’s too expensive. I was wondering if it would make sense to re-install radiant heat or if that would just be too cost-prohibitive. Have you ever known anyone who has done this and are you saying the materials might not even be available?
Thanks!
“I was wondering if it would make sense to re-install radiant heat or if that would just be too cost-prohibitive. Have you ever known anyone who has done this and are you saying the materials might not even be available?”
I have many details that I don’t want to share publicly–email to anon_tfo at hotmail if interested, milkster–but a couple of things:
1. I too like radiant heat better.
2. Maybe, maybe not cheaper to run, at least w/ iron radiators. In-floor radiant does (apparently) get to be considerably more efficient.
3. Never heard of re-installation w/o a gut rehab. And then it’s thru in-floor heating almost exclusively.
4. Even if not all of the heating plumbing was removed (most likely was), *very* expensive to reinstall. The labor and the pipe (*especially* the labor) would make you choke. And that’s before buying boiler(s), which ain’t cheap.
5. On availability–*tons* of places to get boilers, radiators, fittings, etc. Just not at Home Depot/Lowe’s.
“I don’t like gas. It’s too expensive.”
Really? Have you actually looked at gas prices?
http://www.citizensutilityboard.org/PeoplesGas.php
At 42 cents a therm, you are talking 1997 prices. How is that too expensive? It’s the lowest its been in 8 years (on average) and flirting with levels seen 13 years ago.
Not to mention a forced air system allows for: i) UV air purification, ii) digital humidification, iii) electronic damping (very slick) and iv) outside air exchange (for tighter homes).
Oh, and air conditioning. Who the hell needs that. Or if you have foreced air ducts, then why install a separate heating system. Talk about a waste.
Jmm, i remmeber you used to be a happy guy, what happened bro?
and i love my radiant heat and learned after spending $$$$$$$ that you shouldn’t use decorative radiator covers, jacks the the whole function of the industrial metal monsters.
yes you loose floor space and yes the are ugly to look at and yes when its below 10 for a few days you need to put a cookie sheet of water to humidify the air and yes……
um i lost my thought am i pro-radiant or not?
Groove:
This was discussing installing it where it was not. Maintaining an existing system is another story.
I have nothing against certain applications — I have a radiant floor system in the basement and it works great. Retrofitting a home for it seems strange.
Instead, why not just install a proper radiant fireplace?
http://www.tulikivi.com/
For once I agree with JMM. I got my gas bill for the last 30 days and considering it’s been running nearly nonstop during this cycle my bill was shockingly low.
I don’t think I’ll need CEDA this winter.
groove you have “radiator” heat not “radiant” heat
radiant heating is usually installed in flooring, radiator is the radiators you speak of
“I have a radiant floor system in the basement and it works great.”
I have not heard anyone yet complain about the new floor systems, most rave about it.
I saw one being put in and asked the installer guy, what about long term hiccups. he looked confused and continued to explain away the pvc bendable pipe lifespan and flow (is it PVC?).
one great thing about oldschool radiant is the pipes are exposes so easy to fix with out causing damage.
wound what it would take to fix a radiant bathroom floor if a service need arises? would you have to tear up the tile/stone to get to it?
“groove you have “radiator” heat not “radiant” heat
radiant heating is usually installed in flooring, radiator is the radiators you speak of”
i may sound slow hear but just always thought it was the same just different application?
I swear by those plastic sheets stuck to windows. One extra layer of trapped air.
Oh, duh! I didn’t realize radiant was different from radiator. Sorry about that. I meant radiator heat.
I had a friend who lived in a 1,000 sft loft about 13 years ago and his gas heating bills back then were about $500/month. My boyfriend lived in a teeny, tiny 300 sft 2 BR walk-up 2 years ago and he and his room-mate paid $400 (combined) per month for gas heating. Hence my aversion to gas heating.
Whereas my radiator heat in my co-op is free!
Yes, I know if I owned a multi-family I would have to pay to heat the hot water for the radiators, but I can’t imagine it would be more than a gas heating system. Anyway, from the info anon_tfo provided it seems like it would be way too expensive and invasive to install radiators so I guess I’d have to either live with the gas heating or find a building with radiators.
Radiator Heat > Gas/Forced air any day.
“I had a friend who lived in a 1,000 sft loft about 13 years ago and his gas heating bills back then were about $500/month. My boyfriend lived in a teeny, tiny 300 sft 2 BR walk-up 2 years ago and he and his room-mate paid $400 (combined) per month for gas heating. Hence my aversion to gas heating.”
This suggests a serious deficiency with regard to insulation, heating practices, furnance efficiency or some very significant combination of all three.
“Radiator Heat > Gas/Forced air any day.”
having lived for many years with both, I totally disagree
“having lived for many years with both, I totally disagree”
Same here. Forced air is significantly better. For example, how many commercial installations use radiators?
JMM,
Those Tulikivi fireplaces look cool and interesting. But…ugly!
Wow, Tulikivi makes cooking with wood look easy! Probably a great option for a cabin to have a cooking surface + oven also be your heating option for the place.
“For example, how many commercial installations use radiators?”
Just about every office building I’ve worked in? None older than ~40 years (none newer than ~20, too). Convectors are radiators with a different form factor.
And, not that I think Euros do everything better (far from it), there is mucho use of radiators in Europe in commercial space.
“Same here. Forced air is significantly better. For example”
more examples please
“more examples please”
From JMM, already:
“a forced air system allows for: i) UV air purification, ii) digital humidification, iii) electronic damping (very slick) and iv) outside air exchange (for tighter homes).”
Of course, the electronic damping can be had for a hot water system, too. But the best point is, if you are going to have ducting for cac, the duplication is silly.
“From JMM, already:”
should i be worried? my short term memory is fading?
and i can see the if ducts are there why revert back.
anyone know the cost to zone radiator heat? if radiators are already in place 😉