New Construction Duplex Downs Still Selling For Over $700K: 1022 W. Diversey in Lakeview
We chattered about this new construction 3-unit building at 1022 W. Diversey in Lakeview several times in 2012.
See our January 2012 chatter here.
The top floor 2-bedroom penthouse sold within 4 months as did the second floor 2-bedroom.
- Unit #3 sold in April 2012 for $535,000
- Unit #2 sold in April 2012 for $435,000
But it didn’t take long for the 4-bedroom duplex down to also sell.
The entire building was sold out within 7 months of listing the units with the duplex down selling for $732,500.
Forget building million dollar homes.
Could developers clean up by building $600,000 to $800,000 3-bedroom condos in Blaine, Bell, and Burley school districts where new properties listed over $400,000 but under $1 million are nearly non-existent?
(This property wasn’t even IN one of those top school districts.)
John McNaughton at Prudential Rubloff had the listing. You can still seen the interior pictures here.
Unit #1: 4 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, duplex down, no square footage listed, parking included
- Originally listed in in February 2012 for $750,000
- Sold on July 10, 2012 for $732,500
- Had high end millwork
- Viking appliances
Is that really all you can get for $700k? Seems steep for location and basement space. I’d pass on this offering and at least look for a similar version on a side street. Wait….and a non basement unit if I’m tackling that large payment.
“Could developers clean up by building $600,000 to $800,000 3-bedroom condos in Blaine, Bell, and Burley school districts where new properties listed over $400,000 but under $1 million are nearly non-existent?”
Yes. Look at CA23 in the West Loop. It’s a 24 unit complex with units priced from $500,000 – $600,000 and it sold out in 6-7 months… and they went on sale before ground even broke. All units are 3 bed / 3 bath with about 2,000 square feet (all on one floor), luxury appliances, etc. Assessments are low at about $350. I think there is a lack of inventory in the 3 bed /2-3 bath, lowrise/midrise/walkup, $500-750M market.
“I’d pass on this offering and at least look for a similar version on a side street. Wait….and a non basement unit if I’m tackling that large payment.”
Zoning issues.
“Yes. Look at CA23 in the West Loop. It’s a 24 unit complex with units priced from $500,000 – $600,000 and it sold out in 6-7 months… and they went on sale before ground even broke.”
Wasn’t this building built during the boom and the bank took it back?
Anyway- this building isn’t even in a good school district. I know people desperate to get anything in Blaine, Bell or Burley for under $800,000 with 3 bedrooms (or else, they told me, they’ll have to look in the burbs.)
“Wasn’t this building built during the boom and the bank took it back?”
Sorry- I was thinking of another West Loop building with the bigger, modern units. You’re right- it is new construction.
“and it sold out in 6-7 months… and they went on sale before ground even broke. ”
from CA23 website:
3 bedroom condominiums
1,900 square feet
Were $660,000-$785,000
Now $499,900-$624,900
For $732,000 you could probably get a single family house in that neighborhood (north of Diversey, south of Belmont.)
“desperate to get anything in Blaine, Bell or Burley for under $800,000 with 3 bedrooms”
Desperate, but unwilling to live on a major street, right? Or west of Western if in Bell.
“I know people desperate to get anything in Blaine, Bell or Burley”
Why is Hamilton (3500 N. Paulina) lagging?
“from CA23 website:
3 bedroom condominiums
1,900 square feet
Were $660,000-$785,000
Now $499,900-$624,900:
“Sorry- I was thinking of another West Loop building with the bigger, modern units. You’re right- it is new construction.”
No, you’re thinking of CA23. Phase 1 was done during the boom and the developer was trying to sell them at $750+. He went bankrupt and a new developer bought the remaining units on foreclosure, sold them, and is building Phase 2 (construction started Jan of this year).
Phase 2 is what I was referencing. Ignore the website… marketing ploy. While the Phase 1 units were priced at over $660 (from the original developer), the Phase 2 units were always $500-600. And they are sold out. I know… I bought one.
This is the wisest purchase i have seen all year!
hahahaha hohohohohoh hehehehehe
“Anyway- this building isn’t even in a good school district.”
Missed that comment. It’s actually in the Skinner district, and depending on which website you look at, is in the Top 5 or Top 10 of Chicago elementary schools, usually ahead of Blaine. Another big reason I bought the unit.
Also cool place GMT, man I wish i was a buyer now, such good deals out there
This is a nice unit, but $732,500 does seem really high to be on Diversey and living in a duplex down. Admittedly, it has 4 bedrooms and appears high quality but for this price you can get a VERY nice single family home with a large yard in Oak Park. I like living in the city, but if you have kids why would you take this on a busy street over a SFH with a yard in a suburb with a better school district? If you are committed to the city, this price would get you a nice place in Edgebrook as well with good schools.
“Also cool place GMT, man I wish i was a buyer now, such good deals out there”
Thanks, and yes, there are great deals, and awesome interest rates. And that’s why I think there is a market for these rather affordable 3 bedrooms. I was originally looking for a 2/2 and then decided to spend a few extra dollars to get a nice 3/3 that I can grow into versus growing out of a 2/2. This is a 10 year home for me and the future wife. We’ll have 2 kids here, and once they’re about 9, 10, 11ish, we’ll look at getting a nice big SFH in the city. And I think several others have a similar approach as mine, but just can’t find the right affordable home. Again, these units sold out in an impressive 6 months and of the several neighbors I’ve met, most are young, newly wed, and ready to start their family.
“the Phase 2 units were always $500-600. And they are sold out. I know… I bought one.”
If this 3/2 condo renaissance is true, then this short sale (@$326K) was the deal of the last few years on CC:
http://cribchatter.com/?p=9046
“It’s actually in the Skinner district, and depending on which website you look at, is in the Top 5 or Top 10 of Chicago elementary schools, usually ahead of Blaine”
Has a single “neighborhood” kid taken isats at Skinner yet?
“Has a single “neighborhood” kid taken isats at Skinner yet?”
Answering my own question: No: first K class was 09-10, they are 3d graders this fall.
Here is Skinner’s profile.
http://iirc.niu.edu/School.aspx?schoolID=150162990252458
“Desperate, but unwilling to live on a major street, right? Or west of Western if in Bell.”
Or next to a beergarden.
Or in a condo, for that matter.
Just a thought, but not everyone looking to buy in the city has nor is planning to have children. Then again, this is indeed CC as in crib, as in where children sleep. My bad.
I think that it’s “crib” as in “my crib, my casa, where I sleep at, dog!” Anyway, sure it might not matter for some properties, and you might not want to have kids, but the quality of the schools has a pretty demonstrable effect on the values of homes in certain districts. For most condos, it doesn’t matter, but it still makes sense to have some idea how that factor is likely to affect the value of the property in the future. I might not mind if a car’s paint is all messed up and there are a bunch of scratches on it, but it might affect my decision making process about buying the car at a certain price because those issues are going to have an effect on other buyers.
“Why is Hamilton (3500 N. Paulina) lagging?”
It’s not. They had 600 applicants for K this fall. Only three made it off the wait list. Scores are way, way up. Also, four SFH’s on either side of the school and still under construction have all been sold before completion…..all of them for more than 1.2 m
“Or in a condo, for that matter.”
Clearly: 3 beds in Bell for under $300k:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3944-N-Claremont-Ave-60618/unit-208/home/12717285
And you could buy #207 (assuming adjacent) as well for $249k, and then spend $100k on combining the units, and *still* be $150k under budget.
“http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3944-N-Claremont-Ave-60618/unit-208/home/12717285”
Whoa, not sure how I feel about the new redfin format. Change is always disconcerting I suppose.
“Whoa, not sure how I feel about the new redfin format. Change is always disconcerting I suppose.”
I was thinking the same thing.
‘I think that it’s “crib” as in “my crib, my casa, where I sleep at, dog!”
No, I think it’s ‘crib’ as in where are we going to park the bassinet. It must be *absolutely* exhausting (no snark in this comment) to have to constantly think about finding the right place in the right school district for the right price. Do we buy a 2/2 and stay there until a child reaches school age, sell if we can – no maybe rent it, buy another place if we can afford it and as long as interest rates remain low – no wait, I hear there’s a bidding war because of the low rates, honey you missed your last what??? Seriously, if that was something I’d constantly have to think about, to deal with that albatross around my neck, no, I would have just moved to the suburbs, had my family, and be done with it. What people go through, what people put themselves through, I don’t get it. Seriously.
“Clearly: 3 beds in Bell for under $300k:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3944-N-Claremont-Ave-60618/unit-208/home/12717285
And you could buy #207 (assuming adjacent) as well for $249k, and then spend $100k on combining the units, and *still* be $150k under budget.”
There’s good reason those units are so cheap. We were under contract in that building about a year ago. Not bad for the price on the first pass, but the association is (was?) a disaster. Assessment delinquencies all over the place, clear instances of too-long deferred maintenance on inspection, extremely low reserves, frequent specials, all sorts of rancor in the minutes… We didn’t push it, but I don’t think units in there were warrantable at the time. I doubt it’s improved a lot in a year’s time. Good luck getting a mortgage there.
“There’s good reason those units are so cheap.”
Fair enough.
3 bed, duplex down in Bell for under $500k:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3755-N-Damen-Ave-60618/unit-1/home/12701119
3834 Greenview is the only 3 bed in Blaine currently active for under $500k, but there are several options in Burley. And there are 7 active 3 bed listings in Blaine for $500 to $750.
“It’s not. They had 600 applicants for K this fall. Only three made it off the wait list. Scores are way, way up. Also, four SFH’s on either side of the school and still under construction have all been sold before completion…..all of them for more than 1.2 m”
Interesting. In another 10 years, all the yuppie parents will have gotten over their fear of “lane tech” as bad CPS, and they’ll become propagandists for it, saying how “good” it is, etc. They’ll be using it right? Or are they stuck having to perform this real and perceived turnaround at Lake View HS?
THe 3 Bs and Hamilton all feed into Lake View or Lane Tech?
“THe 3 Bs and Hamilton all feed into Lake View or Lane Tech?”
All into Lake View HS. Lane Tech does not have an attendance boundary, it is strictly test in (selective enrollment). You won’t find any yuppie parent right now complaining about their kid getting into Lane Tech, it is gotten extremly competitive.
“You won’t find any yuppie parent right now complaining about their kid getting into Lane Tech, it is gotten extremly competitive.”
While I agree with that generally, there is still some who view it as 2nd fiddle and back up to Northside, Walter Payton, and Loyola and/or St. Ignatius. It’s going to be 10 years before the $1.2 million mcmansion dweller finds it acceptable, of course what I’m saying is these types will create the aura that it’s “excellent” because they’ll have to create that propaganda, if it’s their precious kids going there. in 10 years, maybe Lane Tech will be upper echelon in PERCEPTION (even if it’s already there in academics).
“It’s going to be 10 years before the $1.2 million mcmansion dweller finds it acceptable”
Do you actually know a single family with 7 grade+ kids in CPS? Because you sure seem like you don’t.
“in 10 years, maybe Lane Tech will be upper echelon in PERCEPTION ”
It’s not likely to crack the top 3 (NS, WP, WY), but it’s *far and away* the school of choice for athletics, which is only going to get more cemented when the mini-Wrigley gets completed. Any parent disappointed by “only” getting Lane *right now* is the type to be disappointed by their kid “only” getting into a non-HYP Ivy–that is, one whose general opinion on school quality can be fairly safely ignored.
“Any parent disappointed by “only” getting Lane *right now* is the type to be disappointed by their kid “only” getting into a non-HYP Ivy”
Lane is like columbia or penn or u of c or something? Really? Semi-sincere question. E.g., if that’s the best CPS option a kid gets into, do parents (often) consider going outside of CPS, in city or otherwise?
I doubt many would compare Lane Tech to Ivy or UofC, however it is a very good HS.
http://iirc.niu.edu/School.aspx?schoolid=150162990250027
Here is a ranking of IL HSs.
http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/illinois
“E.g., if that’s the best CPS option a kid gets into, do parents (often) consider going outside of CPS, in city or otherwise?”
I’ve heard of some who do, but they are relatively few. “Often” would be a radical overstatement.
“I doubt many would compare Lane Tech to Ivy”
Are you being dense on purpose?
“Just a thought, but not everyone looking to buy in the city has nor is planning to have children. Then again, this is indeed CC as in crib, as in where children sleep. My bad.”
I definitely know not everyone looking to buy in the city has or is planning to have kids. I am certainly in the group without nor planning to have kids, but if I were to buy a 3 bedroom or especially 4 bedroom place, I have to realize that most likely if I were to sell it families would be considering it. Many people without nor wanting kids won’t look at such large places and the majority of buyers for larger places (especially 4+ bedrooms) do have kids.
Sabrina and Anon – It is my understanding that Skinner school existed prior to 2009. Perhaps it was skinner west or something??? 2009 is when the new building opened. It is a bright well designed space and although considered a magnet school actually admits kids from the neighborhood. In other words GMT’s kids, at least under todays rules, would be enrolled there just because they live in the area.
That could change over time as they strive to become a true magnet school. I’d suggest that GMT better “get that ring on her” and the first kid going!
CA23 was a good development. They stalled out as the timing of closings hit the downturn and the developer did not react quickly. It seemed as though months and months passed with little to no sales. They held pricing too long and missed the market. Building one is holding up well and building two should be an asset to the area as they are very nice units.
“I’d pass on this offering and at least look for a similar version on a side street. Wait….and a non basement unit if I’m tackling that large payment.”
Zoning issues.”
Anon – not sure what you meant by zoning issues. I meant to find a similar 5 bedroom place that is duplexed down on a side street. Are you saying that there are no duplex downs on side streets. That is not true. I have friends that own one in buck town. Now getting a duplex up with that many bedrooms on a side street in that area for the same price might be a challenge but not impossible.
I think these sorts of sales are a testament to people wanting “new” no matter what the cost. I will be curious to see what happens in a few years once people start reselling… two ugly frame houses next door and a church down the block. No thanks.
“although considered a magnet school actually admits kids from the neighborhood”
There is the classical program, which has existed for some time, and the *separate* neighborhood program that as of last school year had kids in K, 1, 2 *only*. All of those school rankings are based primarily on results of isat testing. ISAT testing doesnt start until grade 3. So, that ranking of Skinner West has, technically speaking, absolutely nothing to do with the neighborhood program.
“not sure what you meant by zoning issues.”
I meant not much *new* on side street. Obviously not none, even in the new, but but most of the new you’ll find on the mainish streets. Anf, I was mainly intending wrt new, “non-basement” duplexes for around $750k.
Anon – did you ash in a Groupon for low priced pitchers of Patron Margaritas? Either that happened or your spell check went on vacation with that last post!
Yes, JP, I did ash one in.
And my spellchecker is on vacay with Ze.
“You won’t find any yuppie parent right now complaining about their kid getting into Lane Tech, it is gotten extremly competitive.”
What’s the enrollment at Lane Tech? Several thousand right?
$732k duplex down to live near Durkins/Hidden Shamrock/Trinity? LMAO! Good luck with that. Especially after they realize what happens to duplex downs after thunderstorms.
“What’s the enrollment at Lane Tech? Several thousand right?”
Bit over a thousand per class.
“Bit over a thousand per class.”
That’s a big auditorium for an algebra class!
“Especially after they realize what happens to duplex downs after thunderstorms.”
What happens after storms in duplex downs? I’m curious… but what about during storms? A duplex down is one hell of a tornado shelter!
““What’s the enrollment at Lane Tech? Several thousand right?”
Bit over a thousand per class.”
That should prepare them well for their inevitable journey to Michigan State
“That should prepare them well for their inevitable journey to Michigan State”
As JMM likes to point out, that (or IU, Iowa, UW, whatever) is the most likely destintion from New Trier, Hinsdale Central and whatever other ‘burban HS as well. Oh, and is part and parcel with Vlajos’ whiff yesterday.
You gotta be bottom quartile of New trier to have to fall back to MSU… I mean come on!
“That should prepare them well for their inevitable journey to Michigan State”
Oh snap, Sonies… sounds like a Wolverine talking!
We used to have a duplex down and never had any water problems downstairs, even after major storms. I think we were lucky, though… On the other hand, the view of people’s feet and stroller wheels from the downstairs rec room wasn’t exactly terrific ambiance, though my husband didn’t mind at all.
New Trier is not ranked in the top 10 for Illinois HSs.
http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/illinois/rankings
“We used to have a duplex down and never had any water problems downstairs, even after major storms. I think we were lucky, though…”
Us too, lived there for 8 years. Never had a problem. Doubt it was luck.
“That should prepare them well for their inevitable journey to Michigan State”
what ever happened to the “Tech” aspect of Lane and Gordon? Are they teaching any technical programs or classes? Or has Lane turned into the typical PC-brainwashing center “college prep” where all the students will end up with worthless liberal arts degrees steeped in Leftist idiocy, and gain admittance based on diversity quotas, etc.? Is Lane Tech a technical high school or a college prep?
“New Trier is not ranked in the top 10 for Illinois HSs.”
Nonsense! I see that its math and english proficiency rates are higher than Highland Park and Stevenson, ha ha…..oh and New Trier has the most state sports titles of any high school in IL history, and today they would easily defeat the less-then-athletic types at HP or Stevenson, or any of the weirdo CPS selective enrollment (WY, WP, NS) places. Dream on haters.
I think Gordon Tech (which is a Catholic school) has gone down hill.
“I think Gordon Tech (which is a Catholic school) has gone down hill.”
That’s because the school is no longer white. If they turn it into a college prep where you have to test in, like a GZ-version of St. Ignatius or Loyola, and attract primarily white kids, then it will regain what it once had, its former status.
Helmet do you have the demographics of Gordon Tech? I can’t seem to find any.
“Yes, JP, I did ash one in.”
Haaa that was money! Touche Anon…
“That’s because the school is no longer white.”
Hofer wins the most racist statement of the day. Perhaps the month. Thanks for your insightful mean spirited comments.
“Hofer wins the most racist statement of the day. Perhaps the month.”
Are you new here?
jp3 will learn that nothing I say is untrue. I met a Gordon ’71 grad just last weekend, and he said there were once two thousand boys at that school, it was also a sports powerhouse that competed at the highest level in football, etc.
People make the school, a culture, not the walls, concrete, and bricks.
Today Gordon is not doing as well. However Loyola Academy, once Gordon’s chief rival is thriving because it’s white.
found this on the net, you can see the decline: “There are 239 hispanic students out of a total enrollment of 510 students at Gordon Tech High School or 46.86%. (2009-2010 school year)”
Actually back in the day, Lane and Gordon were the rivalry.
most schools have more than one rivalry. any school who plays new trier or is geographically close considers them a rival.
Just asked loyola grad friend who their biggest rival was. he graduated in late 80s, said it was Gordon but he hated Mt Carmel more. he played football, Mt Carmel was powerhouse in that sport
Hofer – Let me just say that I am very aware of the Gordon Tech situation. While your statement is somewhat true it is not totally accurate. Let’s just leave it at this…I am connected to this school in several ways. If I am correct I am told that back in the mid 80’s they maxed out on enrollment. At that time there were over 2600 students. They had some big issues to tackle way back then and several excellent proposals were presented. Things were changing quickly but the administration chose to overlook the suggestions and stayed the course.
Perhaps dropping the name “tech” and changing it to “Gordon College Prep” or “GT Academy” might have been a good start. To many the name ‘tech” just does not imply that the will get your child to the next level of success. It sounds more like they are preparing their students to work in an auto shop.
Yes I am aware that Lane “Tech” did not change it’s name either however it is a public school that can be highly selective on admissions. There is limited supply and huge demand for their well respected “free product” while Gordon Tech is a choice for parents that want to “invest cash” into their son (and now daughter’s) futures. When you look at it in that simple light many other Chicago “commuter style” high schools seem like better choices.
Another draw for some individuals is athletics. Unfortunately it is a land locked property with limited access to sports fields and practice facilities. Perhaps they should have a great swim and crew team as it is located right on the river. Since that issue was clearly not addressed when they had a chance it likely never will be. As a result they could no longer compete for the better athletes. Those special talent kids went elsewhere to schools with much better facilities.
As for academics I suspect that most people who “pay cash” to send their children to any school are more heavily invested in making sure the kid will do some homework and achieve success. There are many bright students attending GT however the decisions of administration 15 to 20 years ago cast this school into it’s current status.
Because of all the change and uptick in economic development in LakeView, Roscoe Village, and other neighborhoods there are now many city dwellers with high academic expectations for their children. I think that “Gordon College Prep” could have been very different today had they been pro-active in the mid 90’s to set it up as a true option for excellence. Sadly that did not happen.
“People make the school”…..”not the walls, concrete, and bricks”
I think that the fact that you posted this on Crib Chatter is awfully ironic. Every day we speak about how much the photos of some bricks concrete and walls of a particular property relate to our opinion of the price or value of the home. In many ways private schools are no different. A number of people make choices on where to attend or send their child on the stats of success and …..drum roll please……the physical appearance of the facility!
Often kids and their parents actually make decisions that are driven by factors such as the size of the football stadium, a cool gym, great workout or practice facilities, the TV Studio, a great new computer lab, or a cool library, etc. Those are indeed walls concrete and bricks and they do have a strong influence on the image of the school. It can dramatically shape the make-up of the incoming class. Ever notice the correlation on how a new school building opens and scores go up? Why do Universities constantly update their campuses? It makes them more competitive in the eyes of their buyer aka student or parents.
Better yet have you even been in the halls of Loyola, Gordon Tech, or any other Catholic High Schools? I have been in most of them and can tell you from first hand experience that your statement is missing the point. Buildings do help schools portray an image.
I went to GordonTech for basketball camps in the summer in the early-mid 80s, they filled the gap between park district day camps and school. I actually even took a computer class in Basic there. GT was boy-only back then, that was a big limiting factor for a lot of kids, Ignatius went co-ed in the late 70s or early 80s, I forget which.
But contrary to goofs here, Lane has always been considered decent. I had friends who transferred from WhitneyYoung there, by choice, I might add.
Skeptic,
Yes Lane was very good in the 80’s. Had many smart friends there. Normal h.s. issues but decent education if you wanted one.
I always get Whitney Young and Malcolm X college mixed up, lol.
Francis Parker is smaller than GT, and deals with its reputation and attracts students. What about Latin? Same thing, they don’t have acreage or size, etc. Gordon went down when the white people from the northside started moving out, having less kids, etc. That was right about the same time, the gentrification began in mid-1980’s (think ’84 Cubs). So, all the gentrification is finally complete, 30 years later, but we’ve had a huge gap where the area’s HS students weren’t white. Now that they’re back, your’re right, GT has the chance to become the option btw LA and St. Ignatius, geographically, for Catholics who can’t afford Latin or Parker, and don’t trust CPS high schools, or can’t get into the 1% for the weirdo-kid enrollment schools (NS, WP, WY) that de-emphasize sports and physical fitness and well-groomed, good-looking/fastidious females.
Helmet obviously had a sub pad education because he should understand that it is NOT race that determines the academic performance of the school but the income and educational levels of the parents. It just so happens that often those students happen to be white but if he were to travel to any of the coasts he would learn that the rich educated Asians also have children that perform exceptionally well too. They may not be as good at football or hockey (or lacrosse) because their interests lie elsewhere in other sports. Helmet is too dumb to realize how ingorant he really is.
Seriously, he can be racist and that’s annoying, racism has been around since the greeks called foreigners barbarians, but being wrong and racist? That’s redneck.
“It just so happens that often those students happen to be white but if he were to travel to any of the coasts he would learn that the rich educated Asians also have children that perform exceptionally well too. ”
Don’t think so, or else for university admits they wouldn’t have had to create a new category to continue their social engineering (aka: affirmative action/lowered standards for certain demographics) called “under-represented minorities” which specifically excludes Asians.
“What happens after storms in duplex downs? I’m curious… but what about during storms? A duplex down is one hell of a tornado shelter!”
Let’s just say I know of more than one person who got some jolts from a shop vac being used in basement water. So you don’t get electrocuted to death, but still shocked. Better have a damn good pump and make sure it works.
City vs. Burbs:
700k for duplex down in Lakeview vs. 215k for Georgian in Highland Park (MLS: 07869734).
I can’t look at city valuations in the GZ by and large and not think that they’re fvcked long term. Just because millenials may prefer the city to the burbs has no bearing because the millenials won’t be an economic force as much as previous generations going forward.
“It just so happens that often those students happen to be white but if he were to travel to any of the coasts he would learn that the rich educated Asians also have children that perform exceptionally well too. ”
HD is right. Stuyvesant High School in NY (one of the top public high schools in the nation) determines admission by a city wide test. The school has more Asian students then their percentage city-wide because they study for years for the test. The school is 72% Asian.
Universities have many categories of under-represented demographics. If you grew up on a farm, you are given special preference at many schools. Same thing if you went to high school in North Dakota. What’s new?
Yes, but ND farmers are mostly black….
helmethofer may have a point in the sense that he’s stuck in time & confusing all areas of the city that were minority with poor and less-educated parents.
but the reality is by the 80s there were loads of 2nd and 3rd generation smart-as-hell folks of browner skin all over Chicago. I went to Ignatius over LP’s IB program in the late 80s precisely for that reason – the IB was utterly segregated, both in terms of background and physically, the kids rarely (if ever) mingled with the “gen pop.” Ignatius otoh had loads of brilliant – and I do mean brilliant – kids from every neighborhood in Chicago.
In fact, due to the legacy system, it is accurate to say the intellectually slowest kids there were predominately white Catholics, everyone else had to test in.
“the intellectually slowest kids there were predominately white Catholics”
Whoever could you mean [coff]Daley kids[coff] skeptic?
You guys are all full of it. Academic success is caused and correlated primarily by IQ, and Asians have higher IQs than hispanics or blacks, and whites. Bob is 100% right, the rest of you are up-to-date with your knowledge or your thinking, you’re stuck in the mental paradigm of some Seventies college professor!!
“the reality is by the 80s there were loads of 2nd and 3rd generation smart-as-hell folks of browner skin all over Chicago.”
Nobody who is knowledgeable, honest, and intelligent would believe your falsehoods, with no back up. Gordon Tech from 1984-2012 proves the exact opposite of what you say. The opposite of what you say, the school has deteriorated as high-school aged whites were replaced in GT’s classrooms and replaced by ” loads of 2nd and 3rd generation smart-as-hell folks of browner skin”. I don’t know what planet you are living on, but you are stuck, brainwashed with some idiotic Seventies type social thinking. It’s 2012 now, catch up.
meant: “Bob is 100% right, the rest of you are NOT up-to-date with your knowledge or your thinking…”
“the intellectually slowest kids there were predominately white Catholics”
The most ridiculous lie ever stated. Who created, built up, runs, and maintains that high-standard school you decided to attend? Skeptic is such a douche, that he chose to attend a school 100% conceived, created, its history tied to, and still currently run by white Catholics. You can see for yourself all the incredible churches, hospitals, universities, charities, etc. that the Catholics have built in Chicago, and it’s “white” ones that produced ALL OF IT. I hardly see that hispanics are able to maintain what they’ve been given, let alone build something comparable or improve on it. skeptic: you’re bad.
there ya have it, folks. you can believe the aryan wanna-be, or the guy who is an Ignatius grad who’s best friend went to Gordon Tech and who has also personally been in the halls and classrooms himself.
FTR, certainly I would agree european catholics built and have maintained some great infrastructure in Chicago. But it takes time to assimilate to the point an ethnic group has the wherewithal to build St. Patrick’s or St. Alphonsus’ quality buildings. And given the white flight, can you blame hispanics for simply enrolling in existing schools and attending services in existing churches (and that goes back decades, now)? If they weren’t replenising the lost population, even more catholic schools and churches would be shuttered.
So helmethead, where did YOU grow up and go to school? You sound like a bitter ex-greaser.
and I just LOVE that this ninny doesn’t accept the reality/existence of a legacy system at Ignatius. yep, we had a few dunces from the south side Irish “elite” ruling class there. oddly enough, there is a huge gulf between NW side Irish and the S side ones.
“But it takes time to assimilate to the point an ethnic group has the wherewithal to build St. Patrick’s or St. Alphonsus’ quality buildings.”
Those edifices were built by immigrants, right off the boat, over 100 years ago. Today, it’s 100 years later, with all the advancements that have taken place, productivity increases, etc. and hispanics have been here going on 2nd and 3rd generations now, so where’s the results? Go visit Mexico, the most touristed areas are places where the Spanish built it up with nice-properties and buildings over 200 years ago, What’s been done since? Not much, other than they’ve barely been able to maintain what they were left. You can talk about “legacy” all you want, but you’ll never convince us these kids are “dunces”. Besides it’s a private school. Why shouldn’t the people who created it, built it, maintained it, produced its excellence, etc. be able to make sure their kids get to attend there? Ever heard of paying your dues in life? Why should they give up a spot to someone like you, who turns around like a tratitor and bad-mouths it. Your a good example of why schools like that should not give up on the legacy system, people like you are notorious for not donating back to the annual fund, you bad-mouth it instead.
“Those edifices were built by immigrants, right off the boat, over 100 years ago. ”
Yer an idiot. Learn the difference between lace curtain and black Irish, for starters. And mayor Daley’s daughter was a legendary drunk, so perhaps dunce isn’t the right word, as opposed to simply “spoiled brat,” of which Iggy had many.
I should clarify – Ignatius offered a bump first to legacy, but then also to Catholics of any parish. I’m not bad-mouthing it, I’m just telling it like it is (or at least was).
“Besides it’s a private school. Why shouldn’t the people who created it, built it, maintained it, produced its excellence, etc. be able to make sure their kids get to attend there? Ever heard of paying your dues in life? Why should they give up a spot to someone like you, who turns around like a tratitor and bad-mouths it. ”
Clearly with your inability to follow logic you wouldn’t have gotten in. Let’s be as blunt as possible:
IT IS THE SMART KIDS (like myself) WHO TEST IN AND BUST THEIR ASSES WHO GIVE IT THE REPUTATION OF EXCELLENCE
It is the kids who don’t have to work as hard and aren’t as smart who drag the test score average down. capiche? What is so hard about this? You think this isn’t something every kid who goes there isn’t aware of? It’s an excellent school, no doubt. But any school with students like theirs would be – they get the self-driven, hard-working kids. And if kids can’t keep up, they throw them out and let the lesser Catholic or public schools deal with them.
@ Bob: The Highland Park Georgian has great bones and good potential, but I don’t think it’s necessarily a good comparison to the LV duplex-down. It’s 215K because it’s a short-sale; though the kitchen looks useable, it needs some updating; only a picture of one bathroom in the listing, and it looks original — doesn’t bode well for the other bathrooms; the HVAC situation looks less than ideal; etc. Pricey and time-consuming issues. Who knows what else got neglected when the mortgage wasn’t getting paid?
I’m *so* not a Millennial, but I’m thinking that they, like X, are crunched for time. Most likely both adults are working, not much time for home repairs/renovations, and it’s easier/less time-consuming to get a big mortgage than to buy a cheaper house, finance renovations, then refinance the whole thing, etc. That’s a huge process. Not only that, both adults probably work at demanding jobs with long hours — much of the appeal of living in the city is cutting down commute time. We live in the city partly because we like it, partly b/c I commute southward and my husband commutes way NW. Ideally we’d get jobs near one another and live closer to work, but that isn’t an easy thing to do. Just my two cents… I do see what you’re saying, though, Bob.
“IT IS THE SMART KIDS (like myself) WHO TEST IN AND BUST THEIR ASSES WHO GIVE IT THE REPUTATION OF EXCELLENCE
It is the kids who don’t have to work as hard and aren’t as smart who drag the test score average down. capiche?”
Nonsense. You forgot to mention St. Ignatius’ guilt-driven “Diversity” program. Those are the kids with the lower test scores who drag down the averages. This same thing occurs everywhere, UofC, Ivies, etc. Same thing with FXW and their idiotic diversity program, so some moronic white liberals can feel like their kiddies are getting well-rounded exposure to blacks — oh, but not too much, keep that % capped, LOL!! You’ll never convince people that the diversity students outscore whites. You personally don’t give the school a good reputation, in fact, you’re en embarrassment to the school with your attitude and inability to reason, or deal with facts that you dislike.
“And mayor Daley’s daughter was a legendary drunk”
And spoiled brat kids in Highland Park are drunks, cokeheads — and shopaholics! Every high school has its party crowd. You weren’t in the “in” crowd, so you harbor resentment. You are a loser.
Helmet you are wrong, it is not race, it’s income and parents educational levels.
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/27/sat-scores-and-family-income/
It just so happens that it’s whites and Asians but higher income minorities do well too.
You are an idiot.
http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB8009/index1.html
And another study from the RAND.
“The most important family characteristic influencing student performance is parents’ education. For example, students with one or two college-educated parents performed significantly better than students whose parents were not high school graduates.”
God you are such an idiot. Asian and whipentacle not not the causation of high academic performance, it’s the by product of income and parents education. the correlation is strong. You have it all backwards.
WTF are you still prattling about? Ignatius has a diversity program in the sense they offer financial aid to poorer kids who *COUGH* test in.
Unsurprisingly, many of these are minority kids.
But please, do continue to lecture me about my high school (and my brother went there as well, so my ties are pretty deep), and I am still waiting to hear what greaseball factory churned you out – you have “I was in a pitiful white street gang that got their clocks cleaned” written all over you.
“Nonsense. You forgot to mention St. Ignatius’ guilt-driven “Diversity” program. Those are the kids with the lower test scores who drag down the averages. This same thing occurs everywhere, UofC, Ivies, etc. Same thing with FXW and their idiotic diversity program, so some moronic white liberals can feel like their kiddies are getting well-rounded exposure to blacks — oh, but not too much, keep that % capped, LOL!! You’ll never convince people that the diversity students outscore whites. You personally don’t give the school a good reputation, in fact, you’re en embarrassment to the school with your attitude and inability to reason, or deal with facts that you dislike.”
but this is funny! I was in a party crowd you dweeb, the difference is nobody pulled strings for me so I could succeed, I still put in the 4 hours of homework 5 nights a week.
ha ha – this is so funny, you’re like the penultimate Beta male.
“And spoiled brat kids in Highland Park are drunks, cokeheads — and shopaholics! Every high school has its party crowd. You weren’t in the “in” crowd, so you harbor resentment. You are a loser.”
“The most important family characteristic influencing student performance is parents’ education. For example, students with one or two college-educated parents performed significantly better than students whose parents were not high school graduates.”
Homedelete, you just don’t want to deal with the truth, so you find ways to avoid it. You are wrong. The parents with college degrees, etc. have higher IQs than the ones who have HS degrees, that’s why they have the degrees and the others don’t. You’d also see that those parents with PhDs have higher IQs, and their kids will correspondingly perform at even superior levels. It’s IQ more than anything else.
You need to read the studies of adopted indentical twins that were raised in different families and locations, the facts debunk your propaganda and marxist claptrap. Also, studies have shown the the kids of black college professors, do worse than their asian, white, and jewish peers even though they have the EXACT same advantages, it’s called reversion to the mean (IQ), which is lower. There is just no use discussing this issue with you, when you are very ignorant on it, and read one-sided garbage that’s rooted in the past, the Seventies, and has been debunked several times over. Get with the times.
My vote is for Helmethofer to be the next Secretary of Education. If not that then perhaps Chairman of the Political Corectness Institute. He would be fabulous at either position. It would be as entertaining as Ozzie Guiellen holding press conferences on education reform. Priceless!
BTW – how do you explain when six kids from the same family turn out so different? The oldest one grows up to be a drug addict, the second a ultra wealthy Ivy league educated valedictorian who is now the CEO of a large investment fund, third is a cop, fourth a school teacher, fifth a housewife, and sixth a very successful defense attorney. They all had the same DNA, extremely well educated successful parents, had the exact same upbringing, and went to the same grade and high schools. What the heck happened?
helmethead: you also might want to learn some history before flapping your gums about this aryan superiority nonsense:
http://encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/696.html
Ku Klux Klan
In the 1920s, when the Ku Klux Klan had more than two million members nationwide and was at the peak of its power and influence, Chicago had the largest membership (50,000) of any metropolitan region in the United States. At the time, the “Invisible Empire” was known for anti-Catholicism as much as for white supremacy and anti-Semitism, and Chicago had an abundance of all three targets. The Chicago Klan drew its primary support from lower-echelon white-collar workers, small businessmen, and semiskilled laborers, all of whom resented the growing influence of persons who did not meet the Klan’s definition of “one hundred percent American.” Beginning in 1921, various Kleagles (recruiters) set up more than 20 Klaverns (chapters) in the Chicago region, and the organization published a local periodical called Dawn: A Journal for True American Patriots.
The secret order’s demise in Chicago was largely the result of the work of the American Unity League, a mostly Roman Catholic organization which published a weekly newspaper, Tolerance, in 1922 and 1923 that printed the names, addresses, and occupations of thousands of Chicago-area Klansmen. The tactic worked, and by 1925 the Ku Klux Klan had almost disappeared from Chicago.
Kenneth T. Jackson
Bibliography
Jackson, Kenneth T. The Ku Klux Klan in the City, 1915–1930. 1967.
“I was in a party crowd you dweeb”
in the party crowd you say? Then why are you calling other people “drunks”? You’re full of it. You didn’t get invited to the Daley girl’s parties in Union Pier, and you resent it.
let’s just go back where we started:
“but the reality is by the 80s there were loads of 2nd and 3rd generation smart-as-hell folks of browner skin all over Chicago. I went to Ignatius over LP’s IB program in the late 80s precisely for that reason – the IB was utterly segregated, both in terms of background and physically, the kids rarely (if ever) mingled with the “gen pop.” Ignatius otoh had loads of brilliant – and I do mean brilliant – kids from every neighborhood in Chicago.”
If that was true, GT wouldn’t have gone dismally downhill from when it was comprised of 2600 white- Catholics, to what it is today, and now in need of a massive infusion of white Catholic effort for a turnaround. It doesn’t matter than some statistically tiny sample of “smart-as-hell folks of browner skin” went to St. Ignatius, that’s not looking at the big picture. You need to widen your perspective skeptic, you’re being very narrow-minded and idiosyncratic in choosing your example. Get out into the REAL WORLD for a day, and you’ll see your experience was not what’s happening in the larger world.
you jumped the shark skeptic…..
So the amount of degrees you have is a direct correlation to your IQ level? LOL!
Again, I’m not a south sider, never had any desire to “jump ship” and pretend I was.
I grew up by Medusa’s, surrounded by hordes of kids coming into the neighborhood from every part of Chicago and the burbs. We had raves before they were called raves. South Side stuff was L-A-M-E by way of comparison, with the exceptions being hardcore House music parties thrown by the kids who could spin. Of course, they were black, so idjits like you and your ilk wouldn’t have had a clue.
Regarding the Daleys, while I love a good time, nobody has ever had to tell me where I am when I woke up on Sunday morning.
The rest of your post is just racist garbage. I know loads of people who went to GT, of every background, in the 80s and early 90s. All are clearly smarter than you.
“in the party crowd you say? Then why are you calling other people “drunks”? You’re full of it. You didn’t get invited to the Daley girl’s parties in Union Pier, and you resent it. “
Helmutt-head we know who the loser is here! Who is the resident self proclaimed expert on what is best for raising & educating kids, yet never raised or educated any kids himself? Who is always spouting off his stupid theories on white supremacy & yet clamors for the entitlement of his people to special treatment regarding admission to Ignatius (and is so bitter he isn’t getting the same boost today he thinks he is due)? Let me point out more fact to you ya bigoted maroon (calling you a moron is a slander against people who are thru no fault of their own born with too little IQ – you choose your beliefs altho your absent father must have started passing them on to you).
As someone who raised kids who went to a great diverse high school I believe that kids live up (or down) to EXPECTATIONS – of parents, teachers, peers & themselves. Asian parents in my neighborhood expected phenomenal grades and drove their kids to put in a lot more study effort than we did to our kids. Fortunately for us, our kids were motivated by their Asian friends expectations & results, and felt a need to compete with them. I’m thankful my kids didn’t choose to associate with narrow minded bigots.
“you ya bigoted maroon”
Danhofer went to u of c? Does he know clio? Or am I confusing that with uic?
And for those of you with rose colored belief about the past glory of Gordon Tech, a business associate who graduated in mid 70’s from there is the closest I’ve seen to functionally illiterate – incapable of writing a legible comprehensible paragraph despite having been born to & raised by upper middle class parents.
Sonies comment, the wittiest and funniest he’s ever written, pretty much refutes helmutKKKs arguments. Why can’t it just stay in RE topics ? It’s like a broken record with that guy.
“I think Gordon Tech (which is a Catholic school) has gone down hill.”
“That’s because the school is no longer white. If they turn it into a college prep where you have to test in, like a GZ-version of St. Ignatius or Loyola, and attract primarily white kids, then it will regain what it once had, its former status.”
that is what started it, and nobody has disproven it, despite all kinds of hysterics. I didn’t bring up Gordon Tech, Vlajos did by saying “it’s gone downhill”. I agree with him, and explained precisely why. It’s always the same, someone can’t handle facts, and they they prolong the things off the RE topic by whining incessantly. Nobody has offered another reason why GT “has gone downhill”. The population density hasn’t changed…..gee, what did? The deniers here are the morons.
Some of you guys come across like people who spit-when-talk-excitedly, a bunch of hysterical nerds. Again, the density of the GT neighborhoods has not fallen or risen dramatically, there are still people there, and they aren’t Muslims, Jews or even non-Catholics. What did change was THE DEMOGRAPHICS btw 1980’s (when the school had 2600 kids), and today when it’s a fraction of the size, and deemed by Vlajos to have gone downhill.
“Why can’t it just stay in RE topics ? It’s like a broken record with that guy.”
I don’t get it either, gail and I had some fun and get deleted.
Vlajos, since you started veering everybody off the RE topic. Why do you think GT went downhill?
(If you don’t want to continue the non-RE discussion that you started, it’s OK by me.)
Stupidity is incurable – but here are the facts regarding changing attendance numbers at Catholic schools since your glory days at St Laurence, Leo or wherever you attended:
“In terms of enrollment and number of schools, Catholic education hit its high point in the 1960s, according to estimates by the National Center for Education Statistics….During that same 50-year period, Chicago Catholic school enrollment dropped from 344,000 to about 86,500. Public school enrollment also dropped starting in the early 1970s, but unlike Catholic schools, it started to rebound in the late 1980s. With the closing of St. Scholastica — announced in March — there will be 255 Catholic schools in the Chicago Archdiocese. There were 526 in 1960.”
“Catholic education hit its high point in the 1960s”
The white Catholic population has declined hugely, and it’s been replaced by different demographics who have proven they are unable to keep up the schools, that were left to them. That’s what I’ve been saying all along. There are pockets, schools like St. Ignatius and Loyola, that are still white, and they are thriving, with admission harder than ever, as all those other schools are not longer deemed acceptable to white Cathollic parents, because of the demographics changes. Chicago used to be largely white in 1960, before Hispanics were here in large numbers, and today the white population in Chicago is not the family-centered types it was before when the schools thrived. Today, it (white population) also includes, singles, transplants, gays, childless, feminists, etc. that really didn’t exist before.
Vlajos can correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought he was talking about the difficulty of GT going from being a tech/vocational school to entering the crowded field of “college prep” schools.
I can’t keep beating him up, it’s like child abuse.
“The white Catholic population has declined hugely, and it’s been replaced by different demographics who have proven they are unable to keep up the schools, that were left to them. That’s what I’ve been saying all along. There are pockets, schools like St. Ignatius and Loyola, that are still white, and they are thriving, with admission harder than ever, as all those other schools are not longer deemed acceptable to white Cathollic parents, because of the demographics changes. Chicago used to be largely white in 1960, before Hispanics were here in large numbers, and today the white population in Chicago is not the family-centered types it was before when the schools thrived. Today, it (white population) also includes, singles, transplants, gays, childless, feminists, etc. that really didn’t exist before.”
As I typed Helmutt-head my visual was Mike Myers as Philip the hyper-hypo. I see Dan downing beer nuts at his favorite Bridgeview bar & launching into slobbering speeches about how the city and the south side will regain its past glory when his people are allowed to utilize their clout and progress to CFD’s top like their forefathers.
You chumps should just start referring to me as “Dr. Chicago”.
I think Chicago was 75% white in 1960, and that’s when the city was over 3 million in population. Of course the schools were less “downhill” then, than they are now. The big difference is demographic changes, pure and simple.
“Vlajos can correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought he was talking about the difficulty of GT going from being a tech/vocational school to entering the crowded field of “college prep” schools.”
That was me who made that distinction, most idiots don’t even know what a “technical high school” means, give me a break, I’m dealing with simpletons here. Like you chumps and your college football obsession. trivia: What does “A & M” mean? don’t look it up.
Dan ya moroon non-parent who is certain he knows precisely why parents decide re schools;
“as all those other schools are not longer deemed acceptable to white Cathollic parents, because of the demographics changes”
Despite one of your many factually incorrect beliefs and statements there are still many Catholic schools succeeding in their mission in areas where demographics have changed & due in no small part to the willingness of “ethnic” Catholic parents to send their kids to said schools – as examples: Leo, Mt Carmel, St Laurence, etc
“You chumps should just start referring to me as “Dr. Chicago”. ”
sounds like Dan is just a sad sorry figment of C’s imagination now doesn’t it?
Well double D (ya doughylike danimal) it is time for me to focus on making real estate magic occur instead of wasting time with the likes of you – I can’t soar like an eagle when I’m flying next to a pigeon
“What does “A & M” mean?”
Assholes and meatheads. What do I win?
“downing beer nuts at his favorite Bridgeview bar & launching into slobbering speeches”
I live near the Violet Hour, where the entire ethos of the place takes inspiration from the culture and tradition I represent and belong to. They are copying me, and are nationally renown for it. I live it, they mimic it, LOL!!!