Not Every Property Is Selling Within a Day in the GreenZone: 3236 N. Seminary in Lakeview
We last chattered about this top floor 2-bedroom at 3236 N. Seminary in Lakeview in April 2013.
See our prior chatter here.
Back then, some of you thought this was priced too high at $449,000 for a 2/2. Others thought that with the hot market it would still sell quickly.
However, it’s still available and was recently reduced another $20,000.
If you recall, at 1200 square feet, it has cathedral ceilings in the living room and master bedroom and a deck off the back (but no roof top deck.)
The kitchen has maple cabinets, stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops.
It has the other features that buyers look for including central air, washer/dryer in the unit and garage parking is included.
The 2/2 market got hammered in the housing bust.
Is the 2/2 still among the most difficult sale?
Jenny Ames at Coldwell Banker still has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #3: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1200 square feet
- Sold in December 2000 for $369,000
- Sold in April 2006 for $437,500
- Sold in July 2010 for $395,000
- Originally listed at the beginning of April 2013 at $469,000
- Reduced
- Was listed in late April 2013 at $449,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $429,000
- Assessments of $130 a month
- Taxes of $6956
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Garage parking included
- Bedroom #1: 16×12
- Bedroom #2: 10×11
I like the taxes. 7k/year or $580/mo just to call this place home. What a beautiful non-cookie cutter home with awesome split faced block on the sides. 430k doesn’t get you bricks all around in Lakeview. hah
2010 buyer paid too much and the new buyer shouldn’t pay a dime over 400k.
out of curiosity, how do you guys value a roof deck? if this place had exclusive access to a built out deck, how much more would you pay?
I hate cathedral ceilings – just a bunch of wasted space that increases your heating/cooling bills.
depends on how large it is, or if its shared, if its finished or raw space, how is it accessed… many variables there!
“if this place had exclusive access to a built out deck, how much more would you pay?”
Access and the right to build? In Philadelphia, that’s worth 50 bucks.
If it has an existing private roof deck–even if pretty basic–and has ‘normal’ access (not a ladder, not a sprial staircase, not stairs from the back deck off the master bedroom), I’d think it worth ~10% premium; if it’s done up really nicely (no zen garden necessary), possibly considerably more.
What continues to blow my mind is the fact that buyers are not running away from these pieces of crap constructed new–age buildings! Split face block. I keep seeing these badly constructed places go up for sale and get sold time-after-time-after-time.
Since this is a top floor unit, just wonder what evidence of water damage there might be? Looked at a top floor place on Southport in LP recently — thought they were nuts what they were asking. And to throw buyers like us off, the unit was described as having brick and LIMESTONE construction. Tried to Google street view it but couldn’t tell for sure.
Go to see it. Place showed all the signs of split block water damage. Seams had separated between the walls/ceilings, cracks around all the windows, telltale water intrusion signs.
Within a few weeks, the place was under contract. If someone pays more than $400K for this place, maybe they have a rich uncle that’s going to fund a total rebuild.
Thanks for the insight. I guess what I was asking was premium for a private, FINISHED, exclusive to that unit complete roof deck with access from the inside of the unit. 10-15% premium sounds fair to me depending on the quality of the build, etc, etc.
I have found this really interesting blog from a guy who is an appraiser in Manhattan and he details how he values outdoor spaces. Obviously the premiums in Chicago vs Manhattan for spaces like this are completely different but still a very interesting read if anyone is interested https://www.realtown.com/SandyMattingly/blog
The idea of having a rooftop deck is nicer than actually having one from what I’ve seen. My parents have one and after 5 years, the wood was rotting and needed to be replaced at a cost of $8k. The neighbors all had the same problem and have had to replace their decks. I rarely see anyone on their rooftop decks. When I was living with my parents, I would go up there and read and I would never see anyone else on their roofs. After seeing the issues and the amount of use the rooftops got, I would put a minimal value on them. A small backyard or patio would be preferable. I think the idea of having the deck is more valuable than actually have one. Throw in roof rights and people will be excited and think, “Maybe I’ll add a deck one day.”
“After seeing the issues and the amount of use the rooftops got, I would put a minimal value on them.”
If your wood was rotting after only 5 years you didn’t weatherproof it right. I’d place a big premium on some sort of outdoor space beyond a 100sf balcony/smoke area, but most others don’t. A small backyard or patio and you’re talking about SFH amenities–unrealistic for condos. Since we’re talking outdoor spaces and SFHs I think garage roof decks are the way to go. Quite surprised how few of them I see in SFHs in the city especially in areas where space isn’t cheap.
My concern about a roof deck would be what it would cost to remove and replace it when it comes time to repair/replace the roof. And then there’s the question of whether the carpenters who put in the roof took care not to damage the roof.
Speaking of roofing, this Sunday the Hyde Park Historical Society is putting on a lecture/workshop about roofs and old houses and buildings. I went to their last presentation about masonry and pointing, and it was excellent. It was a chance to ask an expert (for free) everything you ever wanted to know about how fucked you are by your old building.
Details:
http://www.hydeparkhistory.org/
“My parents have one and after 5 years, the wood was rotting and needed to be replaced at a cost of $8k.”
They didn’t maintain the deck/roof.
I’d place a 5-10% premium on a roof top if it was a decent size, has good stair access, is well maintained and has electric, gas and water added to it.
Maybe it’s not selling because it’s ugly?
What does it take to maintain the deck? They had the original re-stained every other year. They upped it to every year with power washing for the new deck. It sounds like a major pain.
A 5-10% premium sounds like a lot, but I hope my parents get it when they sell their house. It has electric, water, and gas….and looks really nice, but it’s only 3 years old at this point.
“A 5-10% premium sounds like a lot”
As compared to an otherwise identical unit that has no roof deck and no roof rights.
Can you smell the split-face block on this place. Pass!
We have a rooftop deck and use it all the time – entertain up there, have lunch, have a drink before going out, etc. As for maintenance, its like anything else – you have to do some. I stained it last year, touched it up this year, will probably have to power wash, strip, and re-condition the wood next year. I know people don’t like to actually work on their homes, but its not a big deal if you’re handy and adds years to the deck.
“The 2/2 market got hammered in the housing bust.”
Sorry to digress, but I often hear this phrase (or something like it) thrown out a lot on this website, particularly about 2/2 condos. Was the equity of 1bd/1bths or studios, or any condo for that matter outside of prime Old Town locations not as equally f*cked if purchased in 2005-2007?
I’m not refuting the statement or disagreeing, just curious about the reasoning behind it. Anyone care to elaborate?
Elliot, I have never made that claim and don’t have any specifics, but my feeling is that most new construction 2/2 condos were intended to appeal to couples who intended to sell in 3 – 5 years after they had kids. I think now people are reluctant to buy when they know they may need or want to move on in a few years – they’ll rent instead. This is purely based on anecdote, however.
Re: that roof lecture/workshop
Just got an email that HPHS is postponing it till August b/c the presenter is ill.
Not a bad looking place for what it is, though I’m not crazy about the location (too close to Belmont). The price is down but still seems rather high. Maybe it will sell at closer to $400.
“but my feeling is that most new construction 2/2 condos were intended to appeal to couples who intended to sell in 3 – 5 years after they had kids.”
That’s the stupidest thing in the world to buy residential real estate with this kind of time horizon and I relish when these morons get their ass handed to them.
This moron thinks they’re going to get a 30k gain to roll into their SFH as a downpayment becuase they were “savvy” about buying in 2010? Thank god interest rates are on the way up. I hope this owner is stuck and enjoys living with split faced block sides.
I’m sure the area is super safe with no wandering trannies this close to the Belmont stop. Maybe a tranny DINK couple will buy it for 430k.
“Was the equity of 1bd/1bths or studios, or any condo for that matter outside of prime Old Town locations not as equally f*cked if purchased in 2005-2007?
I’m not refuting the statement or disagreeing, just curious about the reasoning behind it. Anyone care to elaborate?”
Well here is the thing and I suspect rationale behind it: 1/1s are a much smaller market, and aren’t typically found in builds such as this where developers cut costs where-ever possible to save money and pack in as many units as they could.
You don’t typically find sub-par buidling materials such as DryVit or split faced block on 1/1s as most 1/1s are part of older conversions. Many developers really cut corners on materials during the boom, leading to substantial problems down the road for owners who didn’t demand quality.
Bob,
I agree with you on your comments — and am also happy about rates rising as I think it will bring things back in line. Wondering about your thoughts on where the market is headed? Are we back to the 2005-7 levels? And where is this market at in relation to let’s say 2008-10?
Trying to really assess where prices should be TODAY relative to 2008 . . . or 2010. If you were going to buy a 2/2 today in LP or LV, what sort of “discount” would you factor in to someone’s 2008 buy price — or someone’s 2010 buy price?
And why is it that the great majority of buyers are SO UNEDUCATED? I would have thought by now that most people would have done their homework and would start skipping any SPLIT construction. However, in my limited experience, it seems people are DUMBER than ever! What’s it going to take? A big collapse or finally someone getting their problem building on a tv news expose?
It’s a freekin’ McCondo POS. This is bad as they get. People from Ohio buy these.
“” I would have thought by now that most people would have done their homework and would start skipping any SPLIT construction. ”
Jesus, everyone on this site hates SPLIT – split-face or split-level.
If I had a choice between the two, I’d go split level
of note, the park ridge Whole Foods they’re building is entirely split face which I thought was interesting.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Park-Ridge/1312-Crain-St-60068/home/13656762
Check out this 1961 SPLIT-level in original condition. at $270 for 1,440 sq ft of original space I imagine this will sell pretty fast. Add in a basement level and there’s 2000+ sq feet of living space.
It has a real patio too – not some ‘roof deck’ bullness.
and it’s in maine east high school too – which is FAR MORE DIVERSE than any bullness city school
2009 Student Enrollment: 1933
White Enrollment (%): 42.3%
Black Enrollment (%): 7.0%
Hispanic Enrollment (%): 17.4%
Asian Enrollment (%): 32.4%
Native American Enrollment (%): 0.50%
YET everybody will bitch about it for some reason or another – suburbs this, bullness that. $270k, fix it up for $60k and it’s $330k for 2000 sq feet of space with a yard and a patio in one of the legitimately most diverse school districts in the entire chicagoland area.
What’s not to like?
“YET everybody will bitch about it for some reason or another – suburbs this, bullness that. $270k, fix it up for $60k and it’s $330k for 2000 sq feet of space with a yard and a patio in one of the legitimately most diverse school districts in the entire chicagoland area.”
I don’t know what the diversity factor is like- but the high schools are good in Brookfield and Riverside as well. I was just looking around to see what is available there. Lots of nice starter homes where the mortgage is similar to this house in Park Ridge (or even less.)
I spend so much time looking at properties in the GZ that I forget that the rest of the Chicagoland area doesn’t live like that (and doesn’t deal with those prices.)
“Was the equity of 1bd/1bths or studios, or any condo for that matter outside of prime Old Town locations not as equally f*cked if purchased in 2005-2007?”
Sure they were. But they weren’t building them hand over fist in the GZ for about 5 years straight. And even if you bought one- it’s much easier to become an accidental landlord and still get a loan to buy another property so you don’t have to live there anymore. Not true with the 2/2s which were more expensive.
When the music stopped in 2008-2009, lots of people were left holding the bag in 2/2s that they didn’t intend to live in much past 5 years.
It’s a little odd that this place is marketed as an “all-masonry building” considering the split face block. Technically, concrete block is masonry but isn’t marketing a building as “all masonry” reserved for all brick. Guess not.
“Technically, concrete block is masonry but isn’t marketing a building as “all masonry” reserved for all brick.”
Um, if it’s all ‘masonry’ what’s wrong with calling it ‘all masonry’?
How do you feel about stick frame houses with a ‘all brick’ veneer? is it ok to call those ‘all masonry’ even tho the brick is not structural *at all*?
“It’s a little odd that this place is marketed as an “all-masonry building” considering the split face block. Technically, concrete block is masonry but isn’t marketing a building as “all masonry” reserved for all brick.”
It’s done to fool the uneducated masses. Calling it “all masonry” is technically correct because split-faced block IS a masonry product.
However, for the educated — and someone like me specifically AVOIDING AT ALL COSTS split face block construction, they will know full-well that split face construction is something to stay as far away from as possible.
This is realtors realizing there are buyers out there that know people will stay away if they see “split face block” in the construction material area of the listing. However, seeing “all masonry” or “brick and limestone” (as I’ve seen more and more recently) just sets me off. Because it is CLEAR to me they are trying to mislead and pull people in. I get upset because it simply wastes my time.
I’ve taken another tack — I don’t bother looking at any “new” construction (mid-90’s on).
“Calling it “all masonry” is technically correct because split-faced block IS a masonry product.”
And getting technical, brick over frame is *not* “all-masonry construction”, so is that deceptive too? I mean that as a serious question.
a little bitter there Bob? why would you wish someone be stuck in their place? pretty dick of you. You can say you want a 07 price and won’t pay the asking price these days. go ahead and feel that way. but the market is what it is and right now there is no inventory and it is hot. is it another little bubble, perhaps, but if you want to buy a place you have to pay for it. days of the low ball are over…..
“Trying to really assess where prices should be TODAY relative to 2008 . . . or 2010. If you were going to buy a 2/2 today in LP or LV, what sort of “discount” would you factor in to someone’s 2008 buy price — or someone’s 2010 buy price?”
Well my original prediction has been proven wrong so far that prices will continue to trickle lower–the low inventory has stopped that, coupled with rock bottom interest rates. Given the various factors affecting the market, I think RE prices could head lower in the future when the inventory and artificial interest rate situations are resolved.
“a little bitter there Bob? why would you wish someone be stuck in their place? pretty dick of you. ”
Sure. But many on here have been saying for years, years prior to 2010 even, that this behavior of buying the McCondo for 3-5 years as a life step after marriage but before kids is incredibly risky and foolish and shows a naivety on behalf of the purchasers that things will surely work out. Especially in 2010 when it was pretty apparent the RE market wasn’t normal.
But I suspect maybe the purchaser saw a quick 8k tax break and went SHOWMETHEMONEY and bought.
2/2 condos continue to sell before they are finished being built in Wicker Park/West Town. The resales sell fast as well if they are maintained and priced right. Then again, most people are unaware of how to maintina a home so there is a lot of crap.
Every new project in walking distance to my home (and there are about 10) has a SOLD OUT sign on it.
brad, rents in west town are pretty high so many people are deciding to buy.
yep, a 2/2 in my building with the tracks literally a few feet from all your windows just went contingent after 11 days… crazy crazy crazy
“Check out this 1961 SPLIT-level in original condition. at $270 for 1,440 sq ft of original space I imagine this will sell pretty fast. Add in a basement level and there’s 2000+ sq feet of living space.”
If that’s your life….give it up. Move to Frisco, TX where there’s better weather, better economy, far nicer housing, better looking women, and lower cost of living, with more jobs and open space, better politicians and leaders. No airport.
“and it’s in maine east high school too – which is FAR MORE DIVERSE than any bullness city school
2009 Student Enrollment: 1933
White Enrollment (%): 42.3%
Black Enrollment (%): 7.0%
Hispanic Enrollment (%): 17.4%
Asian Enrollment (%): 32.4%
Native American Enrollment (%): 0.50%”
That is another hell on Earth. Everyone in that district is trying to get out of it, and move up someday. They DON’T WANT TO BE THERE. It’s not by choice that anyone would seek out that bullshit demographic stew, and crappy ugly housing, a high school with crappy sports, no good looking girls. I feel sorry for the white kids there, they are there because of two reasons: 1) parents are losers and can’t move away to better, or 2) inertia (frog in slowly warming water). The “Asians” in that list are not your typical hot asian chick demo either, their Hindus and Pakis, probably some Koreans. I doubt that school has any Jews. Follow their lead and self-segregate, they don’t believe in this diversity bullshit. Look at Niles West, now that it’s diverse, the Jews are long gone, they aren’t sitting around there any longer, they self-segregate to Deerfield, HP and GBN or Stevenson. Diversity will all but assure that Maine East will not be cohesive enough to be tops in anything state-wide. Look at a Libertyville HS as an example now of a school that now leaves a Maine East type in the dust, gee…wonder why?
typo: meant Niles North
You are all over the place HH. I’m not sure what you’re even talking about. I know you don’t like diversity but this is diverse as schools get, unlike in the city, where everyone talks a great game about diversity but lives in Bell where 100% of their neighbors are white and most parents work for investment banks etc.
Then you talk about self-segregating, and how the suburbs suck, but, then say that Libertyville HS is a great place to live?!? That’s lake county suburbia, and it’s not even the NS (although it likes to think it is).
then you complain about jews self-segregating to deerfield, HP etc and hold that out as an example of non-diversity, but your comments of YEARS past talk about how much you dislike that jews self-segregate away from teh same diversity that you hate so mcuh.
which is it? You’re so inconsistent, you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.
“yep, a 2/2 in my building with the tracks literally a few feet from all your windows just went contingent after 11 days… crazy crazy crazy”
Thanks for the update Sonies. I see this every day. I can’t believe what people are buying and at what prices. I think they’re nuts. But to each their own.