One Year Later, 4-Bedroom SFH in Prime Lincoln Square Location Is Still Available: 2164 W. Leland
We’ve chattered about this 4-bedroom single family home at 2164 W. Leland in Lincoln Square several times in the past year.
See our August 2011 chatter here.
Originally listed at $799,000 a year ago, it was recently reduced again to $729,900.
That is $75,600 under the 2008 purchase price.
If you recall, this is considered “real” Lincoln Square as it’s just a block and a half to the shops and restaurants on Lincoln and also has easy access to several brown line El stops.
The house has had updates including a custom kitchen with concrete counter tops and stainless steel appliances. (However, according to the 2008 listing- those updates had already been done by the time of that sale.)
The upstairs bathroom has a double vanity and skylights along with a claw foot tub.
Built on an oversized 37.5×123 lot, the house has a two car garage and space pak cooling.
The basement is finished and has a half bath and a recreation room and a bedroom.
Listing agent, Eric Rojas, also told us that the house has space pak cooling, a mudroom and it is not located on the El side of Leland.
A year ago, some of you thought this house would sell quickly.
There’s not much currently on the market in “prime” Lincoln Square in this price point (or otherwise.)
Is this house now priced to sell?
Eric Rojas at Kale Realty still has the listing. See more pictures here.
2164 W. Leland: 4 bedrooms, 2 full and 2 half baths, 2 car garage, no square footage listed
- Sold in August 1995 for $209,000
- Sold in October 1997 for $264,500
- Sold in August 2008 for $805,500
- Originally listed in April 2011 for $799,000
- Reduced
- Was listed in August 2011 for $774,900
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $729,900
- Taxes of $7864
- Space Pak Cooling
- Bedroom #1: 12×15 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 12×13 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 11×12 (second floor)
- Bedroom #4: 15×15 (lower level)
- Recreation room: 15×27 (lower level)
It’s a cute house in a great hood but for this price you can be closer to the lake, which is where I personally would want to be. They must not be in a hurry to sell, otherwise they would lower the price to get it sold… if it’s been on the market for a year without selling it’s obviously priced too high.
Who knows about schools here?
$500’s or low $600’s.
A sponsored video walk-through of the home here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEhzmTCOwM4
Charming house, but seller way over-payed in 2008. This house probably needs to be priced around $650,000 to get some action, given listing history.
Assuming that a prudent purchaser is counselled to pay no more than 3.0 times verifiable gross household income, how many $250,000+/year annual income homeseeking households are there in Chicago to absorb all the $750,000+ homes for sale here in Chicago? No matter how lovely the home, there are only a certain number of buyers in marketplace, and always more aggressively-priced homes that are larger, nicer, better located, “more-value-for dollar” priced.
Regarding this house in particular, it’s likely targeted towards a family w/two preschool and/or school-aged kids, so factor in cost for probable private schooling in addition to carrying costs. I don’t want to reignite the whole CPS issue. But here private school is a likely choice for elementary school, even more so for high school. (Seems GZ kids have a better chance of being struck by lightening then being admitted to Northside Prep.) We once were certain that our kids too would go to public school, but issues arise and circumstances occur, and suddenly you’re paying $15,000+ in tuition each year per kid despite your best intentions.
According to Baird Warner site, there are 1516 homes in Chicago proper listed at $740,000+. Anyone venture a guess how many months inventory that represents?
Move to the burbs, great public schools, soul crushing athmosphere.
I’m really surprised this hasn’t sold yet. I wonder if there is some flaw that can’t be seen from the pictures that is turning off potentially buyers.
Eric Rojas perhaps? If he hasn’t given up on this listing and it’s pricing
” I wonder if there is some flaw that can’t be seen from the pictures that is turning off potentially buyers.”
I can’t blame them for the pricing confusion, sales in this area are all over the map. I don’t quite understand it except that there are quite a few irregular lots and over-sized lots. The closest I could find to a comp was this…
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4704-N-Hermitage-Ave-60640/home/12805933
@ builder, I thought only sold properties constitute a comp.
“According to Baird Warner site, there are 1516 homes in Chicago proper listed at $740,000+. Anyone venture a guess how many months inventory that represents?”
Hm…2 years?
“Assuming that a prudent purchaser is counselled to pay no more than 3.0 times verifiable gross household income, how many $250,000+/year annual income homeseeking households are there in Chicago to absorb all the $750,000+ homes for sale here in Chicago?”
Architect, I understand your point. But a $750,000 house in Sauganash may not be the same thing as a $750,000 house in Lincoln Square (considered a “hot” neighborhood) or Lakeview or Lincoln Park. Location DOES matter. There are simply more buyers looking in these neighborhoods.
There’s never been any problem selling the $750,000+ houses in Lincoln Square before. In fact, I’m always surprised at how many people are willing to pay $1.0 million and higher to live there.
I am with Russ. I am a bit surprised that this has not moved yet. Lot size and location alone would seem to be a huge draw, as well there appears that there is no real work that needs to be done.
We saw this house, really nice and its on one of the best streets in Lincoln Square. Only problem is there is basically no closet space upstairs.
I am with Chibuilder – prices all over the map. Look at this house with a huge lot –
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4829-N-Paulina-St-60640/home/13401639
Went under contract at a $650 price and closer to Metra (however, further from Brown line)
Maybe this as a comp?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2125-W-Wilson-Ave-60625/home/13392449
The comp has all 4 BRs up, with a master suite, which is a big premium I imagine. I’m still not clear about the OP property – the “4th BR” is the unfinished basement? If that’s the case, this is really a 3BR for all intents and purposes. Still think it’ll move pretty quickly with a close near 690.
“@ builder, I thought only sold properties constitute a comp.”
Active comp v sold comp. The former is your competition, the latter your appraisal base.
“[4704 Hermitage]”
I’d need to sepend about $5k on new light fixtures before I moved in.
anybody see this today
http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/realestate/sell/sc-cons-0329-real-agents-20120329,0,6385578.story
Last sold in August 2008. Talk about an inauspicious month to buy a home for $800,000! The stock market began collapsing the next month.
This is a cute house, great location, great lot.
It is just overpriced, but not that overpriced. If Eric changed the price to 550 he would see a bidding war. I think it will go in the upper 600’s. Too bad it was overpriced from the get go and has been on the market for so long. Those factors seem to drive the price down.
Did you guys see this one?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4704-N-Hamilton-Ave-60625/home/13392785
Back on the market after less than 2 years and under contract in a week. priced at 599.
It is smaller, has almost no yard and no parking.
We saw this house, really nice and its on one of the best streets in Lincoln Square. Only problem is there is basically no closet space upstairs.
“@ builder, I thought only sold properties constitute a comp.”
“Active comp v sold comp. The former is your competition, the latter your appraisal base.”
What anon(tfo) said, plus the fact that I stand by my confusion of what the comps are in this hood. prices are all over the map. I did a quick search, if you can find something sold that is a comp or better post it up!
“I am with Russ. I am a bit surprised that this has not moved yet. Lot size and location alone would seem to be a huge draw, as well there appears that there is no real work that needs to be done”
I’ve been in this house. The problem in my view is that while the kitchen and baths have been nicely redone, the rest of the house feels old, and not in a good way. The floors slope quite significantly and I don’t like how they put 3 SpacePak high velocity outlets right next to each other in the bedrooms. Plus, the family room in front is tiny.
At the previous price, you could drop a bit more and get a practically new place in LS for ~800K. Maybe the new price will help, but I still feel like paying $700K for a slopey house is something I just can’t stomach.
Assuming that a prudent purchaser is counselled to pay no more than 3.0 times verifiable gross household income, how many $250,000+/year annual income homeseeking households are there in Chicago to absorb all the $750,000+ homes for sale here in Chicago?
Probably none!. At 250/year, you’d probably looking at something more expensive.
Architect :
“Assuming that a prudent purchaser is counselled to pay no more than 3.0 times verifiable gross household income”
Isn’t the rule of thumb a mortgage of 3x household gross income?
I would definitely take the one in Lakeview Sabrina just posted over this one. This house is surrounded by too many multi-family dwellings.
“Isn’t the rule of thumb a mortgage of 3x household gross income?”
It depends on who you talk to whether it’s house purchase price (with 20% down) or mortgage amount. regardless, it’s a pretty expensive smallish sized house pretty far north. the demo for the hood is million dollar new construction or really nicely rehabbed larger victorians. this is kind of an over priced odd ball.
“According to Baird Warner site, there are 1516 homes in Chicago proper listed at $740,000+. Anyone venture a guess how many months inventory that represents?”
Sabrina: “Hm…2 years?”
1,497 currently active and pending
Feb 28 to date / March 15 to date
closed 74 38
under contract 136 69
new listings 331 163
listed and under contract 40 9
Looks like inventory is ~20 months and increasing.
““According to Baird Warner site, there are 1516 homes in Chicago proper listed at $740,000+. ”
846 condo/TH/co-op
588 SFH
82 multi-family (some perhaps not entirely accurately so listed)
As we discuss time and again, there is certainly not perfect overlap b/t the categories. Someone seriously looking at this place is not especially likely to be looking at a condo or multi, for example.
Of course, counter that, the condo listings almost certinaly understate the number of held-for-sale units in certain buildings, where the developer likely has somewaht more inventory than is actually listed on the MLS.
That whole 3x income is strange. I’ve never seen anyone underwrite a home mortgage that way. The ratio is typically no more than 28% of gross income toward your home.
@T, I’m surprised that 2125 Wilson sold that high. Nice house though.
“That whole 3x income is strange. I’ve never seen anyone underwrite a home mortgage that way. The ratio is typically no more than 28% of gross income toward your home.”
Sorry, I should add that the payment (PITI) should be no more then 28% of gross income.
A mortgage of 1/3rd your income is 33%; so when they write your mortgage at 28% gross income, that’s roughly a 3rd. That’s why it’s called a rule of thumb. sort of like converting C to F is doubling the C +25; it’s not entirely accurate, but good enough to get by.
“Last sold in August 2008. Talk about an inauspicious month to buy a home for $800,000! The stock market began collapsing the next month.”
Three “8s” – weird!!
Three “8s” are normally considered lucky in Asian countries.
The last time I shopped at Golden Pacific Market, my bill came to $8.88 and the owner told me to buy a lottery ticket.
I forgot, but made my flight back to NY with literally seconds to spare so I figured maybe that was my luck that day instead.
Ok, after rereading my comment above, it makes little sense, i admit, for once, I don’t know what the hell i’m talking about. good night folks.
I love Golden Pacific. Great prices, selection and clean!
Me too, Vlajos!
I always keep Thai fish sauce, Sriracha and Sambal Oelek in my Edgewater apartment.
I can’t live without those things.
The owner is a very sweet man from Burma.
I’ve visited Burma and it is amazing.
Like a time capsule from the 1960s.
(Sorry to digress away from Lincoln Square.)
Milkster, we’ve brought people from Thailand and China there and they are always super excited by the selection.
“That whole 3x income is strange. I’ve never seen anyone underwrite a home mortgage that way. The ratio is typically no more than 28% of gross income toward your home.”
Yes, at current interest rates, in most cases it’s much higher than 3x income.
“Yes, at current interest rates, in most cases it’s much higher than 3x income.”
Exactly, thank you.
“Someone seriously looking at this place is not especially likely to be looking at a condo or multi, for example.”
Chicago sfh/condo/th
1,497 currently active and pending
Feb 28 to date / March 15 to date
closed 74 38
under contract 136 69
new listings 331 163
listed and under contract 40 9
Chicago sfh only $740k+
606 currently active and pending
Feb 28 to date / March 15 to date
closed 30 15
under contract 67 33
new listings 194 93
listed and under contract 28 5
“Probably none!. At 250/year, you’d probably looking at something more expensive”
The whole 3x income or 28% rule also is strange. That ratio or rule of thumb is for individuals who want to MAX out their spend on housing. We are not in that camp with our home. Not even close. Having a home that we like and small mortgage to pay is a really great feeling. It allows me to sleep well at night and the wife and I have never had a disagreement over money.
The main flaw in this house is the upstairs. My husband and I came seriously close to putting an offer in on this house when we stopped at another open house nearby which put some big doubts into our minds. Other houses which are bigger, with an acutal master bedroom (which this house doesn’t have) and normal sized closets (which this one doesn’t have) and in better school districts, are going for the same or cheaper. There is no bedroom in the basement. There are 3 tiny bedrooms with tiny closets all upstairs and NO way to reconfigure this.
My husband and I were underwritten last month for $750k and we make less than $200k. I don’t think underwriters are using your rule of thumb.
However, he and are, to some extent. I think on thing that people haven’t been factoring in are the taxes on the SFH. The bubble has resulted in a WIDE range of taxes on SFH in Chicago. Some houses in LP/Lakeview have taxes of $9k and others at $15k, all with list prices around $675-750. That can make a big difference in what you’re willing/able to afford. I’ve been watching this Leland house because the taxes are low.
“Ok, after rereading my comment above, it makes little sense, i admit, for once, I don’t know what the hell i’m talking about. ”
Probably need to re-read more comments.
Then again I guess when you always say shit that sounds to me like you don’t know what you are talking about, then by definition you wouldn’t know it was wrong?
“That ratio or rule of thumb is for individuals who want to MAX out their spend on housing.”
Actually, maxing out is more like the FHA 45/45 ratios rather than the typical 28/36 ratios. Believe me, I am, of most people I know, the biggest proponent of a ‘small’ mortgage; but the problem is that a home ‘small mortgage’ doesn’t get a 3 bedroom sfh house (or newer condo/townhome) in an area featured on cribchatter. My buddy just bought a 4 bedroom attached housing in the suburbs and all in PITI + HOA his payment is less than $1,000 a month. You couldn’t rent the place for that cheap. But then by this point you’re 30 miles northwest of the loop, you’re 12-15 minutes in traffic to even reach highway 53, a necessary evil to reach the interstates; and the neighborhood is really dense townhomes with very little room for street parking other than a handful of ‘guest’ spaces at the entrance to the subdivision. Unfortunately, that style of living is not for me or my family with two working parents in the city. the schools are OK but better than 95% of CPS schools, which is a plus, but it’s no new trier or stevenson school system.
My other buddy bought a place in the far far nw burbs, if you want to call it that, he’s literally a stone’s throw from the edge of the sprawl, but for $200,000 he has a quarter acre, 3000 sq feet of space, a two level deck on the back of the house, two car attached and heated garage, shed, etc. $200,000 in the city will buy you a vintage 2/1 condo conversion in need of some updates, east of the river, if you’re lucky enough. Which is more suitable for a family of three or four? One working parent, maybe 1.5 working parents? The answer is obvious.
HD, did your friend just purchase this baby?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Belvidere/913-Union-Ave-61008/home/12758457
Icarus: Not quite as far as belvidere, that’s actually past the spawl and more like a rockford suburb; but think huntley, crystal lake, lake in the hills, gilberts, etc. It’s fairly cheap out there and if you don’t have to commute very far you can have a decent suburban lifestyle. just like in the Arcade Fire video.
45% is pretty maxed out these days. During the boom, Freddie Mac’s automated underwriting system would kick out approvals with 60+% DTIs all the time. We see very few deals with true debt ratios above 45% anymore. There are the few odd cases where there is income we can’t count for some technical reason or it is a left over refinance from the boom when higher DTIs were acceptable. Vast majority of borrowers purchasing seem to know how to budget properly now.
HD, the thing is price usually reflects desirability. Yeah, it would be nice to get a big house on 1 acre for $200k, but who really wants to live in Joliet?
“Not quite as far as belvidere, that’s actually past the spawl and more like a rockford suburb; but think huntley, crystal lake, lake in the hills, gilberts, etc. It’s fairly cheap out there and if you don’t have to commute very far you can have a decent suburban lifestyle. just like in the Arcade Fire video.”
Sounds absolutely like hell on earth. Just move to WI, it’s nicer. Taxes are higher though.
“Yeah, it would be nice to get a big house on 1 acre for $200k, but who really wants to live in Joliet?”
A fair number of people want to live in the suburbs, in fact, over 2/3rds of our metro’s population lives in the suburbs. Joliet is a bit far, and people want to live out there, it’s just that the supply and demand is sort of out of whack. You can get a house for $200,000 on a 25×125 lot on most of the NW side absent a handful of neighborhoods. It’s all about the availability of the supply and the demand for that supply. There is demand for joliet, huntley, etc, but it’s more for a working class sort of homeowner who want to pay $200,000 for that sized house. The 2/1 vintage in lakeview is going to attract a younger, more profeesoinal couple, both of whom probably have the same income, just vastly different lifestyles.
I’m sure some people like the burbs and exburbs. Personally, I think I’d cut my wrists if a night out on the town means driving down to the strip mall for fancy dinner at Red Lobster. Any savings on the mortgage is probably wasted on gas filling up the F150 these days anyway. I’ll take an inner burb/city living any day. Give me a small bungalow, varied architecture, alleys, walkable neighborhoods, petty crime, public transportation, locally owned businesses, and trees…
“HD, did your friend just purchase this baby?”
Nobody wanted it at $75k last summer, but now it sells for $105k! Belvidere is back, baby!!!
” gilberts”
Now you’re just making stuff up, HD. There’s no such place.
“Joliet is a bit far, and people want to live out there, it’s just that the supply and demand is sort of out of whack.’
Yep, lots of people do. In fact, (i.e. Joliet, Elgin, Aurora, Wheeling, and more) lots of Mexicans like those suburban towns. So, Russ can get his anti-Red Lobster burrito dinner and think it’s so cultural and not have to slit his wrists! Lots of burbs catching up in the petty crime, gangs, drugs, crappy public schools, obesity levels, unkept properties, litter, etc. levels just like non-GZ Chicago and the inner ring older ‘burbs Russ likes.
Nice lot, but clearing the snow from that long front-load driveway would be quite the chore.
“anon (tfo) — Now you’re just making stuff up, HD. There’s no such place.”
Not sure if serious or…
Gilberts is a real town just west of Elgin. The farm fields that are just north of I90 got all gussied up and ready to get built up with ginormous subdivisions just in time for the housing bust.
“Icarus: Not quite as far as belvidere, that’s actually past the spawl and more like a rockford suburb; but think huntley, crystal lake, lake in the hills, gilberts, etc. It’s fairly cheap out there and if you don’t have to commute very far you can have a decent suburban lifestyle. just like in the Arcade Fire video.”
uhhhh – this is what I have been trying to say for the past 2-3 years (when I mention St. charles) – but not one of you could understand. Now you finally are beginning to get it……….
Milkster – yeah, Burma’s a really cool place if you kinda overlook, yknow, that dictatorship-keeping-the-Nobel-Peace-Prize-winner-under-house-arrest thing and all…
As for Joliet, I grew up there and high-tailed it to Chicago as soon as I saved up enough to buy a car! There IS an upswing in population around Joliet/Plainfield (and not just one ethnic group), but it’s mainly among people working in the many medical facilities surrounding St. Joe’s Hospital and the handful of small industries hanging around the outskirts. (The “big” factories where my dad + uncles worked are long gone).
Of course, there’s also the casinos…
Joliet has some amazing, beautiful old houses. The problem is that they are in Joliet. This one is gorgeous but only a half mile from the river where the projects are.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Joliet/623-Western-Ave-60435/home/17465522
Joliet is a nice enough place with a lot of good people but the average Crib Chatterer would cringe at the thought of living there. It is very blue collar (not that there’s anything wrong with that).
Here’s another place that I think is beautiful but I personally would not buy at the listed price in this area. 5 years from now I would be throwing thousands of dollars into such an old house and I probably would be unable to sell for within even $20 grand of the price I paid for it.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Joliet/703-Cornelia-St-60435/home/21754548
I know what you’re saying.
I went to a part of Burma called the Kawthaung Islands.
I took a longtail boat from Ranong, Thailand.
There were several military checkpoints, one of which was randomly on the sea halfway there.
When I got to Burma I was instructed to slip a “customs fee” which consisted of 20 USD in cash tucked in my passport to the official for entry.
One of my Burmese guides told me he escaped to Kawthaung after killing a man in Indonesia.
I had the distinct feeling that I could “disappear” and no one would know what happened to me.
It was sketchy and fascinating at the same time.
“(The “big” factories where my dad + uncles worked are long gone).”
Out of curiosity, which industry were they in?
“I think I’d cut my wrists if a night out on the town means driving down to the strip mall for fancy dinner at Red Lobster.”
That’s a superficial attitude, I think you might as well cut your wrists in any event.
“I think I’d cut my wrists if a night out on the town means driving down to the strip mall for fancy dinner at Red Lobster.”
I LOVE the Red Lobster. My friends and I- all of who live within the GZ- get in our cars and drive up to the RL in Lincolnwood at least twice a year. 🙂
My father and a couple of uncles worked at the old Ruberoid plant, maker of various home-building supplies but primarily shingles.
Another uncle worked at the Joliet Steel + Wire Co., affiliated with U.S. Steel.
There were also plants (independently owned or part of big corporations) that made everything from military hardware to greeting cards. My mother once worked at a pasta factory.
Joliet, Aurora, Elgin, Waukegan and a few other places were “mini-Chicagos” in terms of commerce, culture and quality of life (for better or worse). Now it seems they derive most of their sustenance from hospitals, casinos and minor-league baseball.
AH, the “Lob” – gotta have them cheesy biscuits!
I actually like Red Lobster. The Admirals Feast is the bomb when am looking to engorge myself on processed, breaded and fried low grade seafood. However, I typically only go when on road trips and yes, the biscuits are addictive. Other places that taste better if you only go once or twice per year – TGIF, Olive Garden, Outback, Cheese Cake Factory, etc.
Yes, I know I am a food snob; but it just something about middle america restaurants chains that is depressing and I think it is because they represent the banality of American culture and the loss of the things that make different cities unique. I just think it is screwed up that no matter where you go, there you are – same shit no matter where you are in the country.
It just kills me when I am downtown in River North or off Michigan Avenue and all the tourist are lined up to go to Applebees or TGIFs. You are in one of the largest freaking cities in country with all kinds of unique experiences to be had and instead you wait in line to eat at the same low quality chain restaurant that you can find off any interstate in the country? WTF?
My disdain for the burbs is that they all just look and feel similar. Same old Pulte track homes, cul de sac, stucco exterior, and two car garage. Drive down to the mall and eat at the same Red Lobster you can find 50 miles away in yet another suburban community. It’s like the Twilight Zone…
“My disdain for the burbs is that they all just look and feel similar. Same old Pulte track homes, cul de sac, stucco exterior, and two car garage. Drive down to the mall and eat at the same Red Lobster you can find 50 miles away in yet another suburban community”
russ – I bet you don’t have any kids. Once you have kids, your free and sane time gets cut to almost zero. You have such little time to do your own errands/eat, etc., that you actually begin to appreciate familiarity and consistency. I know EXACTLY what to expect when I walk into Applebees/dennys/red lobster, etc. – I know EXACTLY what I am going to order and I can get in and out pretty quickly. Same thing goes for Walmart/target/home depot, etc.
I think the reason many tourists go to chain restaurants may be (a) that chain may not exist in their own home town and they want to know what they’re missing; (b) there’s something to be said for gastronomic “consistency” while traveling if you’re the type who’s prone to digestive problems caused by too much “exotic” food. There’s a reason for all those stories about rock stars on the road who actually like to stay at Holiday Inns and get McDonald’s catered into their dressing rooms; gastrointestinal distress brought on by unfamiliar food have a nasty effect on one’s performance.
If you’re eating McDonald’s all the time then eating real food probably would be a shock to your system…