Over 3 Years Later, This 3-Bedroom Bucktown Cottage Reduces to $389,900: 1641 N. Claremont
We last chattered about this 3-bedroom Bucktown brick single family home at 1641 N. Claremont in March 2010.
See our prior chatter here.
It came on the market in October 2008 and has been on and off ever since.
I didn’t have an exterior picture of it then and I STILL don’t have one. Sorry. Who knew we’d still be chattering about it nearly 2 years later?
Back then, with a list price of $459,900, most of you thought the price was outrageous for a 1500 square foot house (regardless of its location.)
Most of you thought that it would have to be reduced into the $300,000s to sell.
Flash forward to 2012 and it’s still on the market.
And yes, there is now a “3” handle in front of the price. It’s been reduced to $389,900.
Built in 1988, this brick cottage is on a standard 25×125 lot.
It has central air and a 2 car garage along with a backyard.
The house has unfinished attic space and a slab basement.
The kitchen appears to have the original cabinets and white appliances.
Of the three bedrooms, 1 is on the second floor and 2 are on the main floor.
Is this finally a good condo alternative at this price?
Will this house finally sell in 2012 after nearly 4 years off and on the market?
Anthony Zaskowski at Property Consultants Realty has the listing. See the pictures here.
1641 N. Claremont: 3 bedrooms, 1 bath, 1500 square feet, 2 car garage
- Couldn’t find any prior sales history
- Originally listed in October 2008 for $549,000
- Numerous reductions
- Was listed in March 2010 at $459,900
- Numerous reductions
- Currently listed at $389,900
- Taxes of $6507
- Central Air
- Unfinished attic
- Bedroom #1: 10×11 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 9×10 (main floor)
- Bedroom #3: 8×9 (main floor)
“GREAT BARGAIN AND VALUE FOR THE SOPHISTICATED BUYER.”
ok it is settled then, I am not sophisticated enough to appreciate this DAZZLING TROPHY PROPERTY 🙂
Agree with miumui. It was fun to read the property description and look at the photographs.
“Who knew we’d still be chattering about it nearly 2 years later?”
what else do we chat about besides cookie cutter condos in the Green Zone? Whenever you put something from a non-GZ nabe, we get comments from people who have never heard of it, think it’s in Schaumburg or read that someone got robbed/killed in the same nabe so it must be a terrible neighborhood.
“what else do we chat about besides cookie cutter condos in the Green Zone?”
I write about what people are interested in. Sorry- but the vast majority of people reading this site want to live in the GZ. They don’t want to live in, say, Galewood. Or even Edgebrook or Sauganash.
But- I still put up the posts for these other neighborhoods because I wish people would expand their minds about how great they are (like Pullman, Schorsh Village etc.) Chicago has great neighborhoods. People need to get out more and explore them.
Did Lawrence Yun wite the ad copy? It’s so out of touch. They should be embarrased.
You could spend $100k rehabbing it, and it’s still a tiny house with no curb appeal. For that reason, it still seems expensive to me.
Near-Southwest Sider here, Sabrina. I’m very interested in Bridgeport, McKinley Park, and other points near-south: All of these greenzoners here don’t know what they’re missing.
i dont care what nabe its in, i want more like the oakdale terra cotta.
a bland box that is over priced, is in any hood still a bland box that is overpriced.
put i understand that Bri Bri gots bills to pay so a few bland boxes in GZ i can deal with if she ups the ante on oakdale type places 🙂
Potential. But as-is, no thanks.
“what else do we chat about besides cookie cutter condos in the Green Zone?”
“Sorry- but the vast majority of people reading this site want to live in the GZ.”
Do the vast majority want cookie cutter condos? I realize the regular commenters may (and hopefully do) differ from the full population of readers. But among commenters with expressed preferences (who are the only ones I can know what they want) who is looking for or lives in a cookie cutter condo? Bob maybe, anyone else? I don’t think of what miumiu is after as strictly cookie cutter.
If a realtor wrote such a ridiculous description for a house I was selling I would fire them immediately. Seriously, this seems like a third grade approach. You would have to be on an extra level of stupid to think that is somehow going to help you move property.
Isn’t Bucktown part of the green zone?
On another note, I wonder if the realtor is being passive aggressive towards the buyer with the joke-y hyperbole of his description. All of the adjectives used describe a property the exact opposite of this one.
Pullman lmao. Good one, sabrina.
Me cookie cutter? I don’t prefer it and mostly look at non cookie cutter units. But if the price is right its not a deal breaker to me. Thing is they built so many cookie cutter units during the boom those are the ones frequemtly going into distressed these days. And I can deal with the gingerbreadman for half off.
Bucktown is solid green zone & this owner is a solid fool. They could’ve easily got 390k for this in march 2010. In march 2012 maybe 360k.
“Isn’t Bucktown part of the green zone?”
“Bucktown is solid green zone”
I think it’s more edge of GZ. What GZ neighborhoods are “below” btown?
“•Originally listed in October 2008 for $549,000
•Numerous reductions
•Was listed in March 2010 at $459,900
•Numerous reductions
•Currently listed at $389,900”
Should note the numerous *increases*, too. Total Zaskowski special.
“I think it’s more edge of GZ. What GZ neighborhoods are “below” btown?”
I think that the edges of BT are definitely fringe GZ (and this is about as fringe of BT as it gets), but core BT is clearly GZ.
This is not solid GZ, it’s just regular Chicago. North & Western is full of regular Chicagoans passing thru. Closer to Damen and you’d have an argument for yuppie desirability. One could have easily bought this is 1990 for 50K, and I don’t see it being that much better despite there being million dollar properties a block or two east. You could go two blocks west and get 3x the house for the price, but this house is just miserably small and depressing; today you’d have to pay me 50K to live there.
“I think that the edges of BT are definitely fringe GZ (and this is about as fringe of BT as it gets), but core BT is clearly GZ.”
Agreed on all of that, but the question still stands: what GZ neighborhoods are below btown? If not much, then, as a neighborhood, I’d call it edge of GZ. (There’s a separate, and I think interesting to almost no one, question of whether this is even in btown.)
East Village & Ukranian Village are totally GZ, if GZ is interpreted to mean 85% + caucasian with a median husehold income above $90K. Which is what everyone really means, isn’t it?
when I lived at Oakley & North it was Wicker Park, but time and realtors change everything.
Where in the HELL do some people get their decorating ideas from?
Today’s Wiki assignment: Define and map the Green Zone
Locked:: Lincoln Park, Old Town, Gold Coast
Less Obvious: Lakeview, Wicker Park, Bucktown, Andersonville
In the hunt: South Loop, West Loop, Logan Square.
Let the debating begin!
“Total Zaskowski special.”
47 price changes (8 up, 39 down) and still chasing the market down:
1/3/2012 LIST_PRICE: $399,900 -> $389,900
11/18/2011 LIST_PRICE: $384,900 -> $399,900
11/11/2011 LIST_PRICE: $389,900 -> $384,900
10/23/2011 LIST_PRICE: $398,900 -> $389,900
10/20/2011 LIST_PRICE: $399,900 -> $398,900
10/13/2011 LIST_PRICE: $409,900 -> $399,900
6/2/2011 LIST_PRICE: $415,000 -> $409,900
5/17/2011 LIST_PRICE: $419,900 -> $415,000
5/6/2011 LIST_PRICE: $425,000 -> $419,900
5/2/2011 STATUS: DRF -> NEW -> $425,000
4/18/2011 LIST_PRICE: $449,900 -> $469,900
3/24/2011 LIST_PRICE: $419,900 -> $449,900
3/8/2011 LIST_PRICE: $424,900 -> $419,900
2/25/2011 LIST_PRICE: $429,900 -> $424,900
1/21/2011 LIST_PRICE: $419,900 -> $429,900
11/17/2010 LIST_PRICE: $415,000 -> $419,900
10/12/2010 LIST_PRICE: $419,900 -> $415,000
9/13/2010 LIST_PRICE: $424,900 -> $419,900
8/31/2010 LIST_PRICE: $429,900 -> $424,900
8/16/2010 LIST_PRICE: $434,900 -> $429,900
7/22/2010 LIST_PRICE: $435,000 -> $434,900
7/15/2010 LIST_PRICE: $439,900 -> $435,000
7/6/2010 LIST_PRICE: $449,900 -> $439,900
7/1/2010 STATUS: DRF -> NEW -> $449,000
6/22/2010 LIST_PRICE: $444,900 -> $439,900
6/18/2010 LIST_PRICE: $448,900 -> $444,900
6/16/2010 LIST_PRICE: $449,900 -> $448,900
6/9/2010 LIST_PRICE: $459,900 -> $449,900
5/27/2010 LIST_PRICE: $469,900 -> $459,900
5/17/2010 LIST_PRICE: $459,900 -> $469,900
4/27/2010 LIST_PRICE: $455,000 -> $459,900
4/23/2010 LIST_PRICE: $459,000 -> $455,000
3/29/2010 LIST_PRICE: $459,900 -> $459,000
3/13/2010 LIST_PRICE: $464,900 -> $459,900
3/5/2010 LIST_PRICE: $469,900 -> $464,900
2/27/2010 LIST_PRICE: $474,900 -> $469,900
2/20/2010 LIST_PRICE: $499,900 -> $474,900
12/21/2009 LIST_PRICE: $489,900 -> $499,900
10/14/2009 LIST_PRICE: $495,000 -> $489,900
8/28/2009 LIST_PRICE: $499,000 -> $495,000
4/13/2009 LIST_PRICE: $499,900 -> $499,000
4/5/2009 LIST_PRICE: $504,900 -> $499,900
3/26/2009 LIST_PRICE: $509,900 -> $504,900
3/20/2009 LIST_PRICE: $514,900 -> $509,900
3/13/2009 LIST_PRICE: $519,900 -> $514,900
1/26/2009 LIST_PRICE: $524,900 -> $519,900
1/20/2009 LIST_PRICE: $549,000 -> $524,900
10/4/2008 STATUS: DRF -> NEW -> $549,000
First, you need to provide a definition of what the “Green Zone” is, e.g. an urban area where narrow-minded white professionals who probably should be living in the suburbs anyway think that they’ll be able to live without having to endure exposure to other cultures, brown people, “poors” and others who are of a lower caste than their own.
Looks dark and depressing to me with many blinds and curtains closed…isn’t that a window unit in the dining room??? Thought it was central air!
“Let the debating begin!”
Should be fun!
I always imagined the Green Zone to be an area where prices have remained somewhat stable, with little gang activity. Streets are generally clean and store front signage is in English. Very little riff raff on the streets and no rusted out cars just sitting around.
Lincoln Park was gentrified before some posters here were born apparently.
“I think it’s more edge of GZ. What GZ neighborhoods are “below” btown?”
wicker park?
“First, you need to provide a definition of what the “Green Zone” is, e.g. an urban area where narrow-minded white professionals who probably should be living in the suburbs anyway think that they’ll be able to live without having to endure exposure to other cultures, brown people, “poors” and others who are of a lower caste than their own.”
That’s a bullshit definition.
But way to stick up for the poors and browns against the strawman of intolerant, evil white people. [insert something about the 1% here] Stick it to the man!
My definition of the green zone changed significantly when I started factoring schools into the equation. There are plenty of neighborhoods that I would consider living in from a safety, cultural, nightlife perspective that have mediocre to awful schools. For someone looking for a long term city home for their family and that isn’t in the actual 1%, those places really aren’t in the picture. It really narrows your search considerably.
That said, I’d still consider GZ mostly on the basis of safety and access to “stuff”. There are plenty of people in their twenties that probably don’t need to be thinking about schools yet. Yet.
“Today’s Wiki assignment: Define and map the Green Zone”
Use your tech wizardry and work off one of the maps that are floating around. This one is CPS. Should be some other census based maps of interest. Neighborhood is in if it averages tier 3.5 or 3.75 or something, and is within 7.5 miles of madison/state. And if hyde park meets that defn, you’ll have to gerrymander it out for not having enough white people, but don’t say that’s why you’re doing it.
http://cpsoae.entest.org/pdf/Census_Tract_Six_Factor_Tiers_12_15_10.pdf
“I think it’s more edge of GZ. What GZ neighborhoods are “below” btown?”
“wicker park?”
Perhaps, not by too much though, especially if you think all the fancy houses between north and bloomingdale, east of damen, are in wicker. So they’re both edge GZ. Maybe not even GZ proper. Will have to see what Icarus comes up with.
hmm, anybody recall if someone using the alias Aleking use to requent these boards:
“Agree but crib chatter is populated by people who could only live in 4 neighborhoods and are disgusted by diversity.”
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/chicago/1352893-chicago-cost-living-job-availability-omaha-7.html#ixzz1jvckRGGQ
40 Years Ago: “Don’t worry, this property is in a white neighborhood.”
Today: “Don’t worry, this property is in the Green Zone.”
Justin today: “[Earmuffs and blinders securely fastened] I don’t like to acknowledge the reality that some neighborhoods have more crime and less amenities than others. Anyone that strives to live in a gentrified neighborhood is a racist.”
“I’m very interested in Bridgeport, McKinley Park, and other points near-south: All of these greenzoners here don’t know what they’re missing.”
yeah well, Eugene Fu probably shouldn’t go walking around in Bridgeport!
“Anyone that strives to live in a gentrified neighborhood is a racist.”
socio-classist, maybe? Wants to live around others like themselves?
It’s not a bad thing, it just is what it is. but don’t kid yourself that GZ’ers are evolved.
“Today’s Wiki assignment: Define and map the Green Zone
Locked:: Lincoln Park, Old Town, Gold Coast
Less Obvious: Lakeview, Wicker Park, Bucktown, Andersonville
In the hunt: South Loop, West Loop, Logan Square.
Let the debating begin!”
Most of Bucktown and Wicker Park is not green zone in my opinion.
Definite green zone – Lincoln Park, Old Town, Gold Coast, most of Lakeview (excluding certain sections like the area south of Roscoe Village), North Center, Lincoln Square, portions of Bucktown and Wicker Park, West Loop to 1200 W, South Loop to 1600S (but only if it’s far enough east)
Borderline GZ: small portions of BT and WP
Not GZ – Logan Square, Andersonville, River West, UK Village
The school argument isn’t as relevant because you can always pay to send your kid to private schools if necessary – for me it’s all about the quality of life in that section of the city, combined with low crime, high income, and amenities. I excluded the Loop and River North from the discussion at this point as there are so many other things in those areas that make the areas not primarily residential (office, hotel, restaurants, etc). Another thing to look at is how easy it is to get a cab (how long it takes to get one)
“Not GZ – Andersonville, River West”
preposterous
“Anyone that strives to live in a gentrified neighborhood is a racist.”
“socio-classist, maybe? ”
I think those that seek gentrified (aka GZ) neighborhoods in the city are socio-classist since the GZ is diverse, as can be seen on any bus, CTA line, retail corridor like Clark St., Elston Target, Costco, etc.
Racism is more applied to people who self-segregate due to ethnic concerns (i.e. we want to live among our own, have “our” kids be the vast majority in the public schools, have “our kind” running the school boards and village boards, etc. ….. these types tend towards ethnic flight and self-segration, which is more racist, than socio-classist. The HP, Deerfield, Northbrook, Bannockburn, Lake-Cook Rd. corridor/bubble is probably Chicagoland’s best example of this kind of group thinking.
Ukranian Village proper is Chicago to Division, Damen to Western, where all the churches are. Until maybe 15 years ago, you couldn’t even rent there unless you were Ukranian. And you could forget buying, it had the highest prices of the surrounding hoods for a reason. Take a look at the 32nd ward map, you can see how they carved out/hooked into a white majority ward by joining up w/ Lincoln Park.
I think the house is cute and has some plusses like:
Brick exterior, 2 car garage, yard, 3 bedrooms, decent condition, close to the el and downtown.
But the deal-killer for me is the slab foundation.
I would not buy a house without a proper basement.
It’s too hard to do plumbing repairs or to even realize you have a leaky pipe when everything is buried under the house.
I’m hoping Architect writes more on this.
“Take a look at the 32nd ward map, you can see how they carved out/hooked into a white majority ward by joining up w/ Lincoln Park.”
Not any more. Now the Ukies are part of the 2d Ward.
Part of the offensiveness of “Green Zone” is its exclusionary nature: It puts Chicago neighborhood descriptions on a war footing. It’s also a completely inaccurate way to describe the city.
What’s outside of the Green Zone in Baghdad? Car bombs, beheaded Westerners, and a hostile environment.
What’s outside of the “Green Zone” in Chicago? Carjackings, bad schools, lower class citizens and a hostile environment.
Green Zone as it’s used here casts every non-Green Zone neighborhood as a dangerous hell-hole, which, as any Chicagoan who has ventured beyond the near North Side knows, simply isn’t true.
Why use “Green Zone” instead of “popular neighborhoods”? Because the message that’s being related speaks more to what is not in the “Green Zone” that what is.
“Why use “Green Zone” instead of “popular neighborhoods”? ”
Why use any phrase instead of some other?
Here’s what i have so far:
Green Zone: A sliver of relatively safe and gentrified areas within the City of Chicago proper (read Urban) where housing stock is most desirable based on specific key criteria such as proximity to the Lakefront, access to rapid transit, and other amenities without the inconveniences of gangs or lower income denizens.
There is some debate whether school system impact whether a neighborhood is considered part of the Green Zone.
The New York Times has mapped every Census Tract in America on this interactive map:
http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/explorer
Type in Chicago IL and the base map codes the predominantly White population areas of Chicago in green. Some may find this amusing.
Greenzone is just a humorous way to say that the neighborhod has been signigicantly genetrified and offers the amenities that most yuppies are looking for in an urban neighborhood. Yes, the term is a dig that those hoods outside of the greenzone aren’t safe. We all know that it is a generalization and there are plenty of urban neighborhoods that are safe but aren’t really considered alternative neighborhoods for the typical resident who wants to live in the greenzone. Many of the non-greenzone hoods may be more blue collar than white collar. May be less densely populated. May not have the same amenities. Different strokes for different folks.
The choice to live in the Greenzone has nothing to do with race and everything to do with class and having access to certain amenities that members of a particular socio economic class value.
The reality is that every major city has their own Greenzones. I don’t care what anyone says, no one is rushing to move to Englewood.
“The reality is that every major city has their own Greenzones. I don’t care what anyone says, no one is rushing to move to Englewood.”
Or Bristol.
Is it correct that GZ is used in realtor circles? Also, I thought we were using the term superneohipstironically.
Anyone mind sharing where you’re searching to see existing mortgage amounts on properties? Is that a publicly searchable database or do you have to be a realtor/pay some membership fee?
Any help appreciated.
“Also, I thought we were using the term superneohipstironically.”
I thought it was neoultrahipstronically, but close enough.
You can also look at the NY Times project Joe posted by income, which I find most interesting.
“Anyone mind sharing where you’re searching to see existing mortgage amounts on properties?”
1. Have PIN? Go to step 3.
2. Go to cookcountyassessor dot com. Search by address. Get PIN.
3. Go to ccrd dot info. Search by PIN. Find recorded docs.
4. Deal with brain damage of figuring out what the non-paid-off mortgage(s) is/are, possibly including some guesswork.
5. ???
6. Profit!
Justin no 40 acres & a mule for you. Also no “social justice”, either. Also I am superior to you, and its not just my earnings power: its that I paid attention in school, worked hard and studied the right subjects (business), unlike you who obviously studied such complete BS subjects as the social “sciences”.
I laugh at the contrivances invented in your hair brained disciplines to explain this away as something other than the well heeled looking out for their best interests. And as Americans are so prone to adapt a caste system to economic success there is no doubt I am above you in station. I feel no guilt about this and I feel no empathy to people with such a faulty paradigm as yourself.
STAY OUT OF MY LAKEFRONT COMMUNITY, LEBOWSKI!!
Thanks, anon!
“Type in Chicago IL and the base map codes the predominantly White population areas of Chicago in green.”
Now we can start using the terms blue zone, the yellow zone, red zone, etc. That’s an amazing link, JZ. It really does show the massive displacement and diminishment of people of European-descent in the American cities they founded and built, etc.
It looks like same sex couples make up 5% of the households in my area.
Also, check out the “elementary students in private schools map.” That’s interesting too. There’s a pocket near Addison and Ashland with 87% in private schools.
Helmethofer–its the welfare class. They reproduce at a rate they can’t afford and expect the government to pay for them. The single moms drain the money that way and the males have a chip on their shoulder & believe they are owed something and the reason they are poor is for reasons other than their parent’s oen flawed decision making process.
take a look at the color chart for LA, amazing….
“hair brained”
Is that more like Trump’s hair, or Rick Perry’s hair?
That NYT map is really something.
I find it interesting that the NYT map shows my census tract as being 0% white, however of the 8 owners in my building 3 are white and all of us moved in during that 2005-2009 window. Obviously some tracts change quicker than others.
jenny (January 19, 2012, 3:57 pm)
“It looks like same sex couples make up 5% of the households in my area.”
Oddly enough, the greatest % I could find was in Kenwood…a whopping 11%. Greater than Boystown/Andersonville and any where in Oak Park. Hmmmm….
If I require the below:
1. Good public school
2. Low crime
3. Close to the train/public transport
4. Walking distance to bars / restaurants
and would like to live outside the Green Zone where would folks recommend?
I could careless about Social Class, Economic, race or sexual preference.
Cheers.
LPN, it is hard to find those four within the green zone. Outside, the only place that comes to mind quickly for me is Oak Park if you are willing to be slightly outside the city.
Also, for those that love to remind us that Oak Park is beside Austin,
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-oak-park-crime-down-8-hits-39year-low-20120119,0,3205078.story
4. Walking distance to bars / restaurants
#4 is the hardest of these. You can get the other three in neighborhoods like Edgebrook. But there just isn’t that much to walk to there.
I agree that you can get all of these in several suburbs like Park Ridge, Oak Park, LaGrange, Evanston (some parts of it- on the crime part.)
“If I require the below:
1. Good public school
2. Low crime
3. Close to the train/public transport
4. Walking distance to bars / restaurants”
And this is what’s so hilarious about the paradox. The same people willing to drastically overpay for #4 assume they’re going to live a similar lifestyle after kiddos come along.
I have friends with newborns–restaurants aren’t common on the itinerary. Let alone bars, unless it’s spouses night out and they don’t stay close to home/goto the corner bar for that.
Now the house of cards enters its second phase for those who bought 2004-2008ish, who now want to move because their life situation has changed, but aren’t able to without either short selling or defaulting.
It was pretty foolish, especially after 2006, to expect everything would sort itself out and there were no problems anticipated with owning for a few years. I actually have empathy for those who bought 2000-2003ish. I wasn’t even aware of any bubble nor were any of the financial press. But the further you get from there the stories just get laughable. You can really tell these people who got stuck in this situation, for most of them, likely never had anything majorly bad happen in their lives and their lives went according to plan.
That’s why I call them automatons/von neumann machines. No contingency planning whatsoever. Its like the people I know who live paycheck to paycheck voluntarily, spending foolishly on gadgets or drugs, who live hand to mouth when they’re in between jobs.
“And this is what’s so hilarious about the paradox. The same people willing to drastically overpay for #4 assume they’re going to live a similar lifestyle after kiddos come along.”
This I agree on. I know people who live within walking distance of very nice suburban downtowns. They’re either driving there- or go there very little (at least with the kids very small.) When the kids are older, they may go more. But your lifestyle really changes. The PotBelly in Lincoln Square is the same as the one in Oak Park.
I agree also – which is why I don’t understand why people on this site hate the suburbs so much. Don’t they realize that they are NOT going to experience all the good things that make the city great once they have kids (but they WILL have to deal with all the crappy stuff that makes the city awful). People are really delusional!!!!
This is why I have my reservations about purchasing in the city. To me it seems like city properties should be priced at a _discount_ to comparable suburban ones because CPS sucks. Yeah for those willing to navigate the maze there are some options. But navigating that maze sounds like at least an extra part time job to me, with no guarantees.
And the other night I was talking to a friend with a high paying job, who was stressed out of his mind, about having the city condo, having to pay for the private school for two kids, etc. Needless to say he couldn’t chat for long because he had to run home to take care of stuff. But 90% of the time he seems overly stressed. And these are stresses he chose for himself. Imagine if he had convinced the wife to purchase some place where there were guaranteed viable public school options?
Not that I’m planning on having kids its just I think city valuations got well ahead of themselves with Lincoln Square paralegals overpaying for McCrapBoxes as part of the mating dance of courtship (forgot what her spouse did).
That tale to this day that little tale makes me want to puke. “You own real estate? I own real estate too, what a coincidence!”. Uggh people are so stupid. It sickens me our government has been trying to bail out these lemmings for the past few years. And now their kids are going to grow up being told they’re awesome until they’re at least 16, because god forbid we hurt kids feelings in this day and age.
The mediocre really have increasingly limited chances to discover their limitations until its too late in this day and age, sadly.
“Not that I’m planning on having kids its just I think city valuations got well ahead of themselves with Lincoln Square paralegals overpaying for McCrapBoxes as part of the mating dance of courtship (forgot what her spouse did).”
That’s funny. I still think of that story too (in Crain’s, wasn’t it?) and I completely remember she was a paralegal but I can never remember what the husband did either. But his condo was in West Town somewhere.
“4. Walking distance to bars / restaurants”
“And this is what’s so hilarious about the paradox. The same people willing to drastically overpay for #4 assume they’re going to live a similar lifestyle after kiddos come along.”
“This I agree on. I know people who live within walking distance of very nice suburban downtowns. They’re either driving there- or go there very little (at least with the kids very small.) ”
Sure your life changes a lot, but going to restaurants is absolutely doable and desirable with kids. Of course, you’re going at 5:30 or 6:00, and to more casual places (though if you go early you can reasonably to a fairly nice restos). Going out with infant to early toddler is easy, a little challenging perhaps at 3 y.o. or so, and then gets a lot better. Obviously kid dependent. But it’s really nice having some walkable restaurants and cafe/bakery.
City livin’ is great and the potbellies in lincoln sq tastes SOOOOo much better than the potbellies in naperville.
“Going out with infant to early toddler is easy, a little challenging perhaps at 3 y.o. or so, and then gets a lot better.”
2!
“the potbellies in lincoln sq tastes SOOOOo much better than the potbellies in naperville.”
Probably less than 5 percent of my meals out with the kid have been at a potbellies/cornerbakery/panera kinda place and all of them in a captive location like a shopping mall or something w/o other choices.
That’s because you are a renter with additional disposable income, DZ.
My 1 yo hated chipotle and made a big mess. Now I just bring my own food for kiddo.
Sure prices will continue to fall but there are deals out there, not so much for sfh in the gz, but surely for distressed sales in the burbs. And if you want ‘new’ plan on paying a premium. Inventory isn’t getting any better anytime soon.
“Sure your life changes a lot, but going to restaurants is absolutely doable and desirable with kids. Of course, you’re going at 5:30 or 6:00, and to more casual places (though if you go early you can reasonably to a fairly nice restos). Going out with infant to early toddler is easy, a little challenging perhaps at 3 y.o. or so, and then gets a lot better. Obviously kid dependent. But it’s really nice having some walkable restaurants and cafe/bakery.”
Very true. We take our kids out quite a bit. Of course we’re not going to Alinea with them, but good neighborhood restaurants absolutely. There is about at 2 year window from 2-4 year old when kids are tough at restaurants. Other than that it can be fun.
Its much easier to stomach a 50k loss going forward on a 200k house, as opposed to a 2006 purchase for 350k that next year will be worth 175k. And if buy today knowing you want to stay for 18 years then you’ll probably be OK. But your value will still drop in the interim.
“If I require the below:
1. Good public school/2. Low crime/3. Close to the train/public transport/4. Walking dist to bars/restrnts
and would like to live outside the Green Zone where would folks recommend?”
How about the following?
Although I do not know about the schools question.
I hear they are good in Norwood Park and Jefferson Park, but I do not know about the other areas:
– Norwood Park (near the Harlem blue line stop)
– Jefferson Park (near the Jefferson Park blue line stop)
– Ravenswood
– North Mayfair between Pulaski/Elston/Lawrence/Foster
– North Park between Kedzie/St. Louis/Foster/Bryn Mawr
For Southside experts, are the following neighborhoods an option for the poster?
– Midway Airport/Garfield Ridge/Clearing
– McKinley Park
– Bridgeport
And for a little further out on Metra, how would these work?
– Elmwood Park
– Galewood
– Montclare
– River Forest
Somehow my parents and their parents all managed to raise kids in Chicago. I can’t think of a single suburb that is within a tolerable commute to downtown for me. My maximum commute tolerance is 20 minutes in a car and would greatly prefer less. If you work downtown and have kids, you get more time with them if you don’t have a long commute each day. Plus, when you get home you aren’t so frazzled by the drive that all you want to do is lay on the couch and not move for hours on end.
“This I agree on. I know people who live within walking distance of very nice suburban downtowns. They’re either driving there- or go there very little (at least with the kids very small.) When the kids are older, they may go more. But your lifestyle really changes. The PotBelly in Lincoln Square is the same as the one in Oak Park.”
Well, your friends who live within walking distance of *nice* suburban downtowns (Evanston? Wilmette? Winnetka? Glencoe? HP?), but who nonetheless either drive or don’t go at all, are obviously pursuing a particular lifestyle. But it’s hardly a universal one.
I second the sentiments expressed above that (i) no more than 5% of my trips out with a kid have been to chain places (I’ve never been to a PotBelly), and (ii) taking a kid out isn’t a big deal, provided that you prepare accordingly (as HD notes, pack some familiar foods just in case; bring some toys/books/crayons/etc.; go early; etc.). Do you think kids just suddenly develop the manners and patience to go out to eat at a certain age, or might they come from practice? Same goes for flying.
Also if you get a nanny to watch the kids when you go out for dinner/theatre and what not, it is much more convenient knowing you are a short cab ride from home rather than having to worry about spending an hour of commute, parking your car, and so on.
where does one have to live to be an hour from a restaurant and theatre?
@ CH, I don’t mean movie theatre : ) If one leaves in Schaumburg and wants to attend a performance in Chicago it can very well take an hour.
and that it lives sorry : )
Thanks Milkster, I will check those out.
“Thanks Milkster, I will check those out.”
Before you set out, be aware that a good number of those suggestions don’t really offer what many would deem “good public schools”, particularly K-12.
Hi Chris M –
Can you please give us the 411 on the schools?
I know nothing about CPS and you are an expert.
I picked the safe non-GZ areas I liked as far as LPN’s other specifications.
Although some of them are lacking in diversity of restaurants and could use more bars (or even one bar), they all have good access to services, transportation and grocery shopping if you do not want to rely solely on a car.
Good luck, LPN.
LPN –
You could also add Green Zone/Yellow Zone Edgewater to your list.
It’s my biased fave.
Although once again I know nothing about schools.
But Anon has told me that there is neighborhood involvement to improve Senn and some other Northside High Schools.
If he wants to be outside of the GZ and meet all of his criteria his best bets are Oak Park and Evanston, but the downtown of most suburbs along the UP-North, UP-Northwest, and BNSF lines would fit the bill (obvious exceptions such as Cicero, Berwyn, etc). If he’s set on city living, parts of Beverly and Hyde Park would fit his criteria. Most of the safe areas in the city with good schools outside of the GZ lack the walkability aspect.
“If he’s set on city living, parts of Beverly and Hyde Park would fit his criteria.”
Except for the public high school part–that’s always a crapshoot in the city regardless of neighborhood.
Also, I wouldn’t quite consider my expert–as far as I can tell the true CC experts on CPS are anon(tfo) and Michelle. It helps, though, to have a CPS teacher for a wife and I’ve been researching the various schools for a few years now, though our daughter is only 17 months old.
As far as the South Side, we recently came across an interesting charter school that started up in 2008 called The Academy for Global Citizenship. My wife is hoping to tour the school and meet with the founder–we’re exploring the idea of implementing a similar concept in Logan Square.
More neighborhoods would be nice on the site. I’m always interested in learning more about walkable neighborhoods that i’ve yet to explore.
“Most of the safe areas in the city with good schools outside of the GZ lack the walkability aspect”
not really take the indian rd park area, you have walkability to many things (except trains) but are a short bus ride on the milwakee bus. you have great eats, three great grocers, walk to a public golf course, walk to the forest preserve trail (that goes all the way to botanic gardens) its quiet and nice, schools is good but not tops, and NO traffic.
Mayfair is highly walkable and has the blue line
Jeff park is even more walkable and all modes of transport come into play.
all some of the most safest hoods in the city by far. it may not be for everyone but should be a consideration.