Rare New York Style Loft in River North Now Reduced $124K: 208 W. Kinzie
We last chattered about this full-floor brick and timber loft at 208 W. Kinzie in River North in October 2009.
See our prior chatter here.
It is still available and has now been reduced $124,000.
If you want to know what many lofts in River North looked like before developers got ahold of them, then this loft is for you.
The listing says it has 15 windows and a freight elevator that opens directly into the unit (which you can see from the pictures.)
It has central air but it does not have deeded parking.
I also have no idea what the square footage of the loft is.
But at this price, is this now a deal for a commercial loft space across from the Merchandise Mart?
Chuck Ginsberg at Solfire Realty still has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #4: no rooms listed or square footage listed- full floor loft
- Sold in October 1997 for $152,000
- Was listed in October 2009 for $499,900
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $375,000
- Taxes of $4215
- Central Air
- Live/Work
I looked at this place a while ago – pretty neat but in need of A LOT of work (kitchen upgrades, drywall, bathroom)….just felt a little run down.
Yet, really cool spread.
Also, from what I remember, you are dead even level with the EL tracks right there along Wells…
I have been an avid reader of this blog for a while now. I really haven’t commented a lot but enjoyed everyone’s comments. I do value the opinion of everyone here….I am buying my first place and was wondering what you guys thought. Sabrina maybe you can post this as one of the properties that people can talk about. Thanks and cannot wait for everyone’s opinion. What do you think is a good price for units in this building. Any thing i should be concerned about? Thanks guys
523 N Racine Ave #3 Chicago
Sorry the address is
521 N Racine Ave
Chicago
Does it come with the douche on the motorcycle, or is that just “staging”?
Cool space, however, and seem reasonable at this point.
John-
That is a good deal.
MGG
John –
that’s a deal but there might be hidden defects that others see. It’s been listed for 54 days and that’s awfully long time for a ‘deal’. Usually ‘deals’ are under contract in just a few days.
It’s a 2005, which makes it suspect, and it looks like from CCRD that it has some ongoing city litigation.
There might be a looming special, or defects in construction, etc.
It’s worth doing your due diligence.
sorry, it’s a 2005 conversion and it might have defects that others see but you don’t.
The largest obstical I expected was how to get residental financing for a commerical space…thus one of the many reasons I passed.
haha i remember this place, the cluttered motorcycle lover’s dream pad
heck if we are allowed to do what John did, any thoughts on
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3410-W-Melrose-St-60618/home/13453806
John, Tax: $5,598.99 is steep for a 2BDR. I also don’t like ” City violation against building and association.”
John,
Unit #1 is also for sale with this description:
PROPERTY NOW UNDER AUCTION TERMS. AUCTION TO BE HELD SAT AUG 22ND. ALL OFFERS ARE SUBJECT TO A 5% BUYERS PREMIUM. * * 1ST FLOOR UNIT IN RIVER WEST! 2BEDROOM 2 BATH, IN-UNIT LAUNDRY, ! PROPERTY NEEDS WORK. BUYER TAKES SUBJECT TO BUILDING COURT CASE. CASH SALE ONLY
Beware…
Isn’t 521 N. Racine one of the developments of Equinox? isn’t that Chicago’s most notoriously bad developer? on par with Matanky/Barry Krisler as scumbags?
I know taxes are so expensive on this unit….i am paying cash no loans. Do you think i can reduce the taxes after i buy the unit? What city violations? and are they serious? Should i ask my lawyer or agent? First time buyer and can use all the help i can get. BIG BIG Investment for me….all my savings 🙂 Thanks for everyones input so far. I am meeting with a home inspector today…any questions i should ask?
oh yeah i am trying to buy unit #3 and that is zoned residential and only the first floor units are zoned commercial.
john if you live in the unit you can file a homeowners exemption, but you wouldn’t be able to realize the benefits of that for at least a year since taxes are paid in arrears
John,
Don’t do anything until your lawyer finds out what the lawsuit is about. It may be nothing. It may be something big. How can anyone say it’s a deal until you know?
I had a friend that bought into a conversion project a few years back and when the developer handed over the association it turned out that the maintenance cost of most of the lot next door (developer’s private residence) was written into the association bylaws in a way not easily rescinded. It was not a big deal but the lawsuit took almost 3 years to clear it all up and during that time any property search showed an ongoing lawsuit and made potential buyers nervous.
On the other hand, I know of a condo building near me that is still involved in ongoing litigation because the builder built an extra floor above what the developer specified and the city approved. That is a continuing nightmare for the current owners and makes it really hard to resell a unit in the building.
If you don’t do your due diligence you are probably going to get screwed.
icarus too close to the highway; plus structural and lein costs + eventual roof costs make this too expensive. get the seller to eat as much as possible.
Icarus:
Wow, $18k lien you have to pay, flooding in basement, structural issues (two joists of the 1st floor are cracked probably in need of extra support); AND it’s pretty much on the highway?
This is a below $100k property and the bank is being greedy. There (is or was) a lot of demand for these cheap foreclosure so they started raising prices and now they’re holding firm. Here’s a short sale that closed under a $100k, very similar, and a few blocks south
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2943-N-Dawson-Ave-60618/home/13447645
“Icarus on August 10th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
heck if we are allowed to do what John did, any thoughts on
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3410-W-Melrose-St-60618/home/13453806“
Icarus:
Wow, $18k lien you have to pay, flooding in basement, structural issues (two joists of the 1st floor are cracked probably in need of extra support); AND it’s pretty much on the highway?
This is a below $100k property and the bank is being greedy. There (is or was) a lot of demand for these cheap foreclosure so they started raising prices and now they’re holding firm. Here’s a short sale that closed under a $100k, very similar, and a few blocks south
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2943-N-Dawson-Ave-60618/home/13447645
Thanks everyone….i shall do my due diligence. Nervous haha. Hopefully i can do my due diligence before the 13th because thats the last day i can get out of the contract.
sonies-how much do you think i can lower my tax?
Here’s another one that sold sub-100k just down the block.
Like I said, the ‘deals’ are gone in days – the rest is overpriced and languishes for months. 154 days for this property is a joke.
I know it’s not a foreclosure but it soon will be. Maybe that’s what it will take to be sub-$100k and the foreclosure will wipe out the lien too.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3534-W-Melrose-St-60618/home/13454895
Holy crap, 521 Racine. Get a *good* lawyer and not just one the blindly processes home closings. All of your life savings into a unit like this would scare the crap out of me.
Homedelete, I’ve been watching this one and the price has dropped $90K. True, there is structurial work and that lien which will make it hard to unload at almost any price.
John:
Apparently there is an injunction against unit 1.
https://w3.courtlink.lexisnexis.com/cookcounty/FindDock.asp?NCase=&SearchType=2&Database=1&case_no=&Year=&div=&caseno=&PLtype=2&sname=523+racine&CDate=
You’ll want to pull the court file or call the receiver, which again, would require pulling the court file.
Icarus:
THe structural work is quite common, you put the steel I beam and prop it up . the lien is a pain, and it might be difficult get a mortgage against the property to satisfy the lien.
compared to the other frame 2 flats in the area, $140k seems high. rehabbers usually buy sub-100, fix it up and sell for some profit.
after 154 days on teh market even they have rejected this one.
I still say sub-100.
Here’s a crapshack a little up the expressway, but still on the expressway, listed for $100k
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4108-N-Keeler-Ave-60641/home/12866860
HomeDelete, I recall that “crapshack” being on the market two years ago. it had some nice photos but was priced in the upper 400K so I never bothered to go look at it.
I wonder if someone inherited and just gave up trying to get anything for it.
Icarus, I know exactly what you’re talking about. There was a huge HELOC on it and it eventually became a foreclosure. It’s got a lot of problems, a ton of problems, i rode my bike past it a few weeks ago. It’s practically falling down. It needs to be torn down
‘Here’s a crapshack a little up the expressway, but still on the expressway, listed for $100k”
On the frickin onramp. That’s got to be one of the worst residential lots on the n or nw side of the city.
Anon, how much would that lot be worth if you bought the REO next door, tore down the blue house and had an 85 foot wide lot x 125/155 foot lot with a large garden and lots of fast growing tall tress as a natural sound and pollution barrier? Yeah the location sort of stinks but where else are you going to get continuous 85 foot lot in an congested area?
“anon (tfo) on August 10th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
‘Here’s a crapshack a little up the expressway, but still on the expressway, listed for $100k”
On the frickin onramp. That’s got to be one of the worst residential lots on the n or nw side of the city.”
“Anon, how much would that lot be worth if you bought the REO next door, tore down the blue house and had an 85 foot wide lot x 125/155 foot lot with a large garden and lots of fast growing tall tress as a natural sound and pollution barrier? Yeah the location sort of stinks but where else are you going to get continuous 85 foot lot in an congested area? ”
With apologies to Bo Diddley, “In anonland, it’s worth fifty bucks.”
Would not live at that on-ramp location unless there was an absolute need. Or if I had approximately the full block.
But seriously, the $268,500 combined asking price seems about right. As an ask, not a bid, unless both houses are in quasi-rentable condition (need appliances/paint/carpet, not much else). The land *could* be decent at ~$200k, for both.
Thanks anon, just one of those crazy ideas. an 85 foot x 155 foot irregular lot would be awesome for the city. Downside being that it’s next to the on-ramp. LIfe is full of trade-offs.
John,
My office is located right on this block. I do know it well. The area is good and the ease of getting on/off the kennedy is excellent! I briefly looked at purchasing one of the first floor office condo’s in 521 or 523 for my business. If I recall correctly it was back in January or February. The mini-kitchen and bathroom had been stripped out and it was going CHEAP! I was curious. A realtor that was intimately involved with this property at that time shared some stories….. I’d suggest that you consider getting out of your contract! there is a stronger than average possibility that this unit will inherit some signifigant special assesments and have many tennant driven problems down the road. I’d also suspect that at this pricing most units will beocme rentals. You do not want to be involved in this type of building.
This loft is a joke and Sabrina’s use of the term “NY loft” totally undermines her credibility. As a former New Yorker, I must say NY lofts have not looked like this in well over a decade. They are far more polished and luxurious today. No air ducts showing, just a few well placed sprinkler pipes and much more light than this dark hole. Definitely not Manhattan, more akin to the Bronx.
I don’t think Sabrina’s credibility is in question. She’s just quoting the Realtor(TM), and I think — correct me if I’m wrong — that there might be a little sarcasm there.
Anyone watch selling new York on HGTV? Loltastic at times but had a real NYC loft recently, ~5milly for about 4k sq feet, was a really impressive space.
John
Run, do not walk away from your contract. Why bother with this unit with all of these issues…who cares if you can get the taxes reduced? there is too much to choose from to be taking such a great risk.
I did see that, and I’m pretty sure I saw exposed air ducts in spite of what a local said.
John,
Regardless of the huge red flags with this place, I’d like to caution you against using all of your savings to buy any place. It just makes sense to go through life with a little bit of a financial cushion under you if you can afford one, and you clearly have enough savings now to be able to afford one. If you can’t afford a little cushion and a little real estate, I say from experience go for the little bit of cushion and forgo the real estate until you can afford both.
I must divulge that I have a personal bias here, and while my life may not be the norm, I hope others can learn from my experience. Throughout my 20s I worked my butt off, saved like a mad woman and created a cushion. (Thank god for my penny pinching depression era grandma who taught me how to do this.) I chose to not sink it all into real estate but hold off until I could afford a cushion and real estate. I’m glad I made this decision: I, an other wise super healthy athletic person, was suddenly diagnosed with cancer at 29. I cannot tell you how glad I am to have had the money to help pay for my expenses and allow me to take time off of work. I’m still young, have cancer, zero credit card debt, no student debt, nor any other kind of debt and live in a really nice rental unit in an extremely well maintained building – people always assume my place is a condo. I’m at the point where I can buy, put more than 20% down, and continue to have a cushion. Still I’m cautious; I don’t want a great steal – I want a solid place and I’m taking my time looking for it. I haven’t found anything as nice as my rental.
There are a million horror stories out there about the random bad things that can happen in life – losing a job, getting in an accident. And I don’t mean to sound like a pessimist. Just thought I’d share one person’s real perspective on why having a rainy day fund can make a huge difference down the line in your quality of life. I don’t know anyone who regrets having a rainy day fund, but know plenty of people who regret having spent their last dime on real estate with nothing to fall back on when the crap hit the fan.
Good luck in your decisions about the 13th.
Similar to John and Icarus’s postings, I have a humble request for Sabrina. Could we have the occasional (once or twice a week) open thread where people can post about properties and seek input from other posters? I mean, it’s just not a blog with the occassional open thread!
“Anyone watch selling new York on HGTV? Loltastic at times but had a real NYC loft recently, ~5milly for about 4k sq feet, was a really impressive space.”
I’ll catch an episode here and there, one of my guilty pleasures.
wow talk about thread-jack…the majority of this post has nothing to do with the orginigan intent!
Ah yes the motorcycle exiting the freight elevator right into the pad.
Is Jennifer Beals going to appear in a cuttoff sweatshirt ready to drench herself?
And how soon after the closing can I expect to eat strawberries off of a half naked and blindfolded Kim Bassinger to a Bryan Ferry song?
This place is truly the blue ribbon 80s loft cliche.
The Crappy kitchen stays!
This places over-all awesomeness is un-disputable indeed. But alas I am 41 and have a 1 year old daughter. Dont get me wrong, it pleases me greatly to think of my little girl with a chance to grow-up in her fathers un-realized 80s John Hughes fantasy, directly behind the Mart where she spends her after school time loitering and hanging around the vast creative showrooms of the Mechandise Mart to be picked up by Holly Hunt and groomed to become the next Global Design Hero all the while Me (her Father) cruses the river north hood dressed all in black and cruising in my late 80s 911.Thank God I have the long list of nightmares associated with this property that are standing by as we speak to wreck my 2nd chance to live SOHO circa 1982.
Post of the year.
This loft is great for someone who is looking for a unique space. It is a 5 story building that was built around 1895. The Chicago Tribune from May 3, 1895 on page 9, under “Building Permits” show the original cost to build was $8,000. Currently the front facade of the building is being restored based on pictures taken in 1906 of the building (and this cost is much more than the $8K to build it!)
Inside the wood floors appear to be original to the building, the lintels over the windows are wood and also appear to be from the original construction, so details like these are very rare. The kitchen, bath, electric and central A/C & heat were update about 12 years ago, so they all work well.
There is a very recent appraisal of $400K so at our current price of $375K allows you to update the finishes. Also this condo is a work/live space, which is not easy to find and you are in a great location across from the Merchandise Mart.
On John’s property… Funny how many issues there are and how everyone is saying run don’t walk from this…
And then we have:
“Matt Garrison on August 10th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
John-
That is a good deal.
MGG”
Spoken like a true realtor.
thanks again for everyones input…very helpful. Sandy i hope you make a full recovery. I have enough emergency money after the cash purchase and i assumed that i will be putting more money into this unit. Do you guys still think $170,200(Price i am paying for this unit) is still to much of a risk to buy it?????
No – not at all. I think it is a great buy – WRONG!!! Come on John, read and re-read the posts. EVERYONE is telling you to get out of the deal – you just don’t want to hear it.
Do you guys still think $170,200(Price i am paying for this unit) is still to much of a risk to buy it?????
Yes. Huge risk. Please DON’T DO IT. It’s a buyers market and there are plenty of properties to choose from. Out of curiosity, how long have you been looking and approximately how many places have you looked at? Beware because that which is cheap can end up costing you in the long run. DON’T DO IT.
Also John, I know you want to pay cash, but taking out a mortgage provides you with an extra layer of due diligence. If the bank will not finance it, you know for sure there are problems. And I doubt you could get financing for this place.
Why would you dump all of your cash into a risky place that kinda sucks (middle unit, location eh) when you could put a large downpayment on something very nice? Doesn’t make any sense. As a first-time homebuyer in 2001 I felt put out by a few annoying neighbors, a couple very minor construction things. You’ve got WAY more to look forward to with this place. With all of the energy you will devote to everything wrong with this place, you will wish you had bought something decent.
Jon-
All due respect etc… I usually don’t pay much attention to your sophomoric comments. However, I feel compelled to respond to this one. You state that everyone says “run don’t walk” and that I have “spoken like a true realtor”. The fact is you can talk yourself out of any deal, but what you should do is conduct due dilligence, evaluate risk and make sure it is priced in. If it isn’t priced in then you lower the price or walk.
There are 59 active 2/2 condos within 1/2 mile of 521 N. Racine, ranging in price from 178k to 899k. After the units from this building, the prices jump from 259k-899k.
There have been 47 2/2 closings within 1/2 mile radius in the last 12 months, ranging from 57k-640k. Only 7 under 200k, 4 of which are in this building.
These units were originally listed over 400k and several closed in the high 300s.
John has the unit under contract at 170k. This is a good deal at face value. Below replacement cost and almost all comps, except for a handful. At or below rental parity.
He should impassively conduct his due dilligence and act like an investor, because these distressed units have hair on them. This includes construction quality, association quality, lawsuits, liens etc. If he doesn’t like what he sees, then he can ask for an extension of due dilligence, walk away, or re-trade the price to a level where he is compensated for the risk.
I advise investors all the time, and I am one myself, and I will not let you denegrate my experience and expertise. I am on record as being bearish in general regarding the residnetial market, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t good deals out there. If John wants a deal with less hair on it there are plenty listed from 250k-300k.
At the end of the day, the best deals will be had by those who properly evaluate and take risk, not those that “run don’t walk”.
MGG
^^^
Matt,
I understand your position better now that you articulated it as opposed to just saying “That is a good deal.” My point was really not intended to be personal (sorry if you took it that way, perhaps you need to be a bit more bearish when it comes to criticism), just that I think we have all seen realtors push sales/purchases. You (I’m guessing) don’t have any skin in this game (523 Racine) so I certainly didn’t mean to imply that you said something improper.
I’ve actually found you to be very professional and helpful on this forum. Apparently it’s not mutual given that you characterize my comments as sophomoric. Oh well.
MGG-
Thanks for your well reasoned, expanded comments.
huzzah!
Everyone is telling this guy not to pour his savings into this place. Can’t he buy it with cash to expedite the process and perhaps lower the price… And then once the property is in hand, take his time to shop for a good mortgage on part of the home value?
Do you have to get a mortgage at the time of original purchase? Won’t the option still be available down the road?
And I don’t agree with taking the whole amount you’re willing to pay and using it elsewhere as a downpayment on something much nicer. Maybe this guy doesn’t want to leverage way up like everyone else did in 2003-2007. (In response to Jon’s):
“Why would you dump all of your cash into a risky place that kinda sucks (middle unit, location eh) when you could put a large downpayment on something very nice?”
And to everyone telling him to run… I wouldn’t want to deal with aany of those headaches myself. But if somone like John did want to take some risk, what price would make this worth while?
Surely everyone saying run would see that there is some value in this place, even if just as a rental investment…
150k?
125k?…
75k?
“Do you have to get a mortgage at the time of original purchase? Won’t the option still be available down the road?”
I think it’s hard to get the tax deduction if don’t get the mortgage at the same time (or maybe within some window). Whether he leverages to fund other investments or not, it’s still a big chunk of change to put in this.
I don’t know enough to say whether he should buy or not, but I would tread very carefully. And I would definitely see if jp3chicago were willing to share some of his/her intel, offline if needed.
“And I don’t agree with taking the whole amount you’re willing to pay and using it elsewhere as a downpayment on something much nicer. Maybe this guy doesn’t want to leverage way up like everyone else did in 2003-2007.”
I wasn’t suggesting that he dump his $200K as a 5% downpayment on a $4 million dollar place. Put half down or something like that.
Under no circumstances should anyone, esp a first timer planning on an all cash sale, invest in a unit that is under litigation. EVER. Even with due dilligence done (unless you had a person who investigates RE cases…RE PI sort of investigator) there will be unseen and unpredictable issues sprouting up once the contract is signed.
I advise EVERYONE considering getting involved in any fashion…even renting now…to do their deep due diligence. From fraudelent mortgages wrapped with a red bow to bedbug infestataion, there are so many things buyers and renters need to be on the lookout for now. Proced with caution on anything RE related.
Regarding this unit, WTF is with the New York Style moniker? This is as far away from a NYC loft as you can get!
The loft that was featured in Little Italy on SNY was indeed a fantastic unit and once the price was lowered, it was an unbelievable deal! I toured this place twice and we were considering doing a trade out with the owner on one of the units in my building.
Pictures did not do that loftastic unit any justice. It was one to be seen and has nothing whatsoever in common with this piece of dog crap.
Who, pray tell, will offer a mortgage when there is a “Loose association in place”( whatever that means and lawsuit(s) against the bldg, and association?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/523-N-Racine-Ave-60642/unit-3/home/12656740
John bringing up his important question begs for what I had requested several times before…an open forum where new to the market buyers can ask questions about RE before proceeding with a purchase.
There are several RE agents brokers out there who would, without a thought, provide the first answer to John as MGG did in his first response.
Hard to trust anyone involved in this industry even though the bubble burst and the economic troubles took out a lot of unscrupulous people at every level of this game.
Due Dilligence X 1,000000 you can never be too careful nowadays!!
“Everyone is telling this guy not to pour his savings into this place. Can’t he buy it with cash to expedite the process and perhaps lower the price… And then once the property is in hand, take his time to shop for a good mortgage on part of the home value?
Do you have to get a mortgage at the time of original purchase? Won’t the option still be available down the road?”
He would have to wait 6 months and then it would be considered a cash out refinance which could potentially have higher rates depending on the final loan to value. There could also be LTV restrictions on how much he can cash out which might not work for him depending on how much mortgage he ultimately wants to carry.
Usually, it is easier and cheaper to just get the mortgage for the purchase instead of trying to do it after the fact, but people do that too if they want to pay cash.
Jon-
Like I said all due respect. I was just responding in kind. I hate being categorized as a realtor. Especially a “true” one. Peace.
MGG
“He would have to wait 6 months and then it would be considered a cash out refinance which could potentially have higher rates depending on the final loan to value.”
Can he still get the tax deduction, if he is not actually refinancing?
“As a former New Yorker, I must say NY lofts have not looked like this in well over a decade.”
“Regarding this unit, WTF is with the New York Style moniker? This is as far away from a NYC loft as you can get!’
Maybe “New York Style” means you get a deli sandwich at closing. Or a cardboard-y slice that everyone will assure you is “the best” pizza.
Russ, Thanks for the explanation. But I’m curious too, if you get the mortgage later, can it still qualify for tax deduction?
“Usually, it is easier and cheaper to just get the mortgage for the purchase instead of trying to do it after the fact, but people do that too if they want to pay cash.”
“I’m curious too, if you get the mortgage later, can it still qualify for tax deduction?”
Take a look at the Home Acquisition Debt section at link below. It seems clear that you have to get the loan within 90 days of purchase date to qualify for a deduction. It also seems clear that when you refinance, only the amount up to the principal of your old loan qualifies for deductions. What I don’t know is if there are any acceptable ways around this.
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p936/ar02.html#en_US_publink1000229992
James – loved your pop-culture-reference-filled stream-of-consciousness post. All that was missing was a tip of the hat to “Rent.”