Renovating the 3-Bedroom Vintage Tudor Foreclosure: 1710 N. Rutherford in Galewood
One of the biggest stories in 2011 have been the investors who have been buying foreclosed properties, especially single family homes, fixing them up and reselling for big profits.
This 3-bedroom home vintage home at 1710 N. Rutherford in Galewood was bank owned in December 2010 and is now back on the market.
Built in 1942 on an oversized 40×135 lot, this tudor home has a distinctive turret and a rare front garage in addition to a 2-car detached garage in the back.
The listing says the house has a “complete new kitchen” including stainless steel appliances and what looks like granite counter tops.
It also has new first and second floor bathrooms.
Some of the vintage features remain such as the original wet bar and built in wood cabinets in the basement.
2 out of the 3 bedrooms are on the second floor with the third on the main level.
If you’re thinking that this is far west Chicago, you would be right.
This house is just a block from the border of Oak Park which the listing touts saying “feel like you’re living in Oak Park w/o paying high taxes.”
Bought from the bank in December 2010, the house is now listed $125,500 over the 2010 purchase price.
Will the new kitchen and baths make the sale?
Michael Torresso at Realty Connection has the listing. See the pictures here.
1710 N. Rutherford: 3 bedrooms, 1.5 baths, 1734 square feet, 1 car attached and 2 car detached garage
- Sold in April 1988 for $125,000
- Sold in September 1994 for $190,000
- Sold in January 2003 for $275,000
- Lis penden filed in October 2007
- Lis penden filed in October 2008
- Bank owned in March 2010
- Listed in September 2010 for $172,900
- Sold in December 2010 for $173,500
- Listed in April 2011 for $339,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $299,000
- Taxes of $4989
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 14×15 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 12×11 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 12×13 (main floor)
- Family room: 25×12 (basement)
I have no idea about the neighborhood (which, obviously is “key” to pricing). However, if it is a relatively safe neighborhood with decent schools, this would definitely be a great deal….how much would this rent for?
Nice house in a not so nice neighborhood: Oak Park would be better schools even if higher taxes since you are about there already. 150 psf should do it: 260K
I’d much rather be in Oak Park than this place. Even with the renovation, it looks kind of strange in the pictures. Ok place, and not that expensive.
The only buyer to pay over $200k for this home lost it to foreclosure. But times are different these days. At $299k the market is at the bottom and this is affordable even with the renovations. It is inevitable that bottom feeding rehabbbers get washed out of the market before there is soome sort of equalibrium. The bottom feeding cash buyers provide the lowest level of price support that pushes out the first time home buyers, at least in my opinion.
Some first time buyers could afford this place. Assuming a $280,000 purchase price, $56,000 down is 20%, with a $224,000 mortgage. Not awful for someone making $70,000-75,000 per year.
“Nice house in a not so nice neighborhood: Oak Park would be better schools even if higher taxes since you are about there already. 150 psf should do it: 260K”
WOW, really Ed. a not so nice neighborhood. and in oak park this same house would be 599k with 12k taxes.
The hood here is great but i guess its would be consider bad to some people who use the word Green Zone because its not pasty lilly white. This is considered the most diverse safe hood in the city made up if city workers and blue collar trade workers of hispanic, black, white, european, filipino, and a scattering of the rest. all hard working middle class.
mostly oversized lots at wide streets, and a****** speed bumps.
the two schools over here suck butt though.
The fake castle look makes me cringe, but it does seem pretty solidly built. The neighborhood public school is Sayre, which has 82 percent of kids meeting or exceeding standards, which isn’t tops but isn’t bad. Catholic schools in the area only charge $6K tuition, so that’s a pretty reasonable option as well.
nobody commenting on the LOG CABIN basement? Really?
Darn Groovy, I thought this would be an option for you and I liked the idea of you living in a hobbit castle. Bummer about the schools unless you could go with Michelle’s idea of Catholic school.
“At $299k the market is at the bottom and this is affordable even with the renovations.”
HD! Are you calling a bottom?
I’m calling a bottom only in jest!
According to Redfin, this home listed for $375,000, is the most expensive home under contract in the zip 60707.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Elmwood-Park/7900-W-Cortland-Pkwy-60707/home/13521337
“Darn Groovy, I thought this would be an option for you and I liked the idea of you living in a hobbit castle. Bummer about the schools unless you could go with Michelle’s idea of Catholic school”
I could go with a top Montessori in oak park too if needed.
and whats with the hobbit legs cracks people i cant dunk anymore but i still can touch rim!
well sayre is not “that” bad but i am surprised at its low testing, we were going to go do a visit to get a feel but i skipped out and wife went, she liked it and says it has potential and the kids were well behaved when she was there.
we placed a offer on a home there last early fall, and would live in galewood in a heartbeat.
“According to Redfin, this home listed for $375,000, is the most expensive home under contract in the zip 60707. ”
wrong city HD, the boundary is harlem ave.
but props for living next walking distance to Russel’s
“and whats with the hobbit legs cracks people i cant dunk anymore but i still can touch rim!”
But it takes you 90 seconds to go end line to end line, and 45 minutes to walk half a mile.
“I could go with a top Montessori in oak park too if needed.”
Lucky you. I went through Montessori school myself from age 2 1/2 – 9. It’s unfortunately out of my price range, were I to have kids in Brooklyn. it’s 26 – 30K a year here.
Prefer Galewood west of Oak Park Avenue; Elmwood Park’s shared zip code is nonetheless not in Chicago’s Galewood, though Elmwood Park has its share of charm. Like Galewood too, particularly those houses with very deep lots west of Sayre School.
Doesn’t Quinn live in this neighborhood when he’s not in Springfield?
If I wanted the city/suburb hybrid and private schools, this area is a decent option. I don’t understand why people would pay OP taxes and not use the public schools.
It’s always a bit awkward to search for properties in this area on the MLS because it’s technically in the Austin community area.
“According to Redfin, this home listed for $375,000, is the most expensive home under contract in the zip 60707. ”
And, according to Redfin, there are 12 houses, out of almost 400 active listings, asking for more than that $375k. And at least a couple of those are short sale wishing prices. The rest are (supposedly) much larger homes at about the same $$ psf, which doesn’t mean they’ll sell, as most spending $500k+ would trade down in size a bit and trade “up” in community (park ridge, op/rf, etc).
From the description “A must see architecturally distinctive Tudor”. I guess that’s one way you can try to make this fake castle pos attractive…
“But it takes you 90 seconds to go end line to end line, and 45 minutes to walk half a mile.”
no its more like 39 minutes a .5 mile, maybe because i stop and smell the roses or get side tracked checking eye candy or maybe because i am constantly checking over my shoulder for wildings/mob action?
“I went through Montessori school myself from age 2 1/2 – 9.”
montessori after 7 years old makes no sense to me, but it is a option and having options is always good. But dang Milky 30k a year to play with blocks for k-12 is rough.
“Like Galewood too, particularly those houses with very deep lots west of Sayre School.”
yep 200′ lots deep and 50′ wide
“From the description “A must see architecturally distinctive Tudor”. I guess that’s one way you can try to make this fake castle pos attractive…”
beauty eye beholder thing my friend
Actually, except for the ramparts over the front garage I rather like the proportions of the roofline.
“Actually, except for the ramparts over the front garage I rather like the proportions of the roofline.
dont forget, plus except the log cabin axe murderer basement vibe.
I think the exterior is quite cute actually. Not a fan of the inside particularly the basement. I have no idea about the hood though, but the price does not seem bad. I mean it is a SFH after all and groove says the hood is alright.
Sorry…I can’t resist: “feel like you’re living in Oak Park w/o the good schools.”
Partially kidding, but there is a reason why taxes are lower in Galewood.
“beauty eye beholder thing my friend”
Sure, but my point is that this house has no tudor features. Professionally this style of architecture is called “fake castle piece of shit”, although as far as fake castles go I’ve seen much worse.
In the Czech Republic they would call it “businessman baroque”, meaning a new money, new construction mish mash of styles.
But I actually like the exterior too. Looks pretty solid.
“Sure, but my point is that this house has no tudor features. Professionally this style of architecture is called “fake castle piece of shit”, although as far as fake castles go I’ve seen much worse.”
aside from the garage i like the curb appeal of it. its FAR better than any new POS that has been built since 1999. (ok kingwanted.com is a exception)
Now i will accept the garage only for two factors, it needs a cannon or buckets of boiling oil/water on top. That would be dope to write that into a contract 🙂
looks like a decent starter home if you are okay with the neighborhood. That log cabin basement really creeps me out though!
“looks like a decent starter home if you are okay with the neighborhood.”
“Nice house in a not so nice neighborhood”
I would like to know what people think is wrong with this neighborhood?
ED called it “not so nice” and
Jen is saying “if your *ok with the hood” and
Architect says “Prefer Galewood west of Oak Park Avenue”
well ok the last one is true.
Ohmygodmygod. I must have this beautiful little house. Beautiful vintage details, including the graceful spiral staircase, and nicely shaped rooms.
Looks like a great deal for the money, especially for a childless person or couple. Only bad thing about it is the Galewood is an extremely inconvenient, out-of-the-way, unwalkable neighborhood where you need a car just to pick up a gallon milk. Face it, you are not going to get just everything for a SF house at this price; premium school district would add at least $150K to the price.
It is a really beautiful house, except for that lower level “log cabin” rec room that will cost money to remove.
At least Galewood has several Metra stops in the neighborhood.
Log cabin basement is a wonderful reminder of home for the Vilas County, WI transplant. Ideal location for a the obligatory Packer’s shrine.
i would ahve too much fun with the castle garage deck
I actually considered buying in Galewood and going the private school route. But the house would need to be very interesting architecturally and the price would need to be low enough where the cost of private school and the housing payment combined did not exceed the total housing payment cost of living in Oak Park. I was looking around $200k or lower and couldn’t find something that worked. But, as mentioned, for those that are already set on private schools, I could see this area being a decent option.
I would throw Game of Thrones parties here every Sunday and invite all the buddies over. But you’d have to bring over your own plate mail suit.
“I actually considered buying in Galewood and going the private school route……..
….I was looking around $200k or lower and couldn’t find something that worked”
ChrisM,
would this be an option if you were looking?
“http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1911-N-Newcastle-Ave-60707/home/13430432”
Groove – Nice find. At $200k with 80% LTV and 4.75% 30-year fixed rate, the monthly PITI would be about $1,150. That’s a pretty attractive monthly cost for a SFH in a decent area of the city.
Groove, Chris, is it my screen or are those very dark photos in the 1911 newcastle link?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1911-N-Newcastle-Ave-60707/home/13430432
Tiny house on a standard lot, weird kitchen, no AC. I’m not too impressed but it does appear, after my precursory look of the area, to be one of the better homes in the area for that price range. Inventory is so tight.
I’m a lot like you Chris M, $200k would be ideal (but not realistic) but $300k to $350k with a public school; or $250k to $300k with a public school is the right mix for me. I could ‘afford’ more but I’d be sacrificing paying down other debt (like student loans), and I’ve have a lot less savings. Plus I’m just so conditioned to paying cheap rent that jumping to $2,300 a month mortgage (which is really just a $400,000 house with an $80,000 down payment plus $650 a month ($7,800) a year in taxes) is psychology difficult. But so few other people seem to be doing that jump either, that I’m no longer perceived as a bitter renter, but instead, as a savvy renter waiting for the best deal for my family.
Speaking of which, what does everyone here who owns pay as PITI?
“Speaking of which, what does everyone here who owns pay as PITI?”
$890 all in
“Groove – Nice find. At $200k with 80% LTV and 4.75% 30-year fixed rate, the monthly PITI would be about $1,150. That’s a pretty attractive monthly cost for a SFH in a decent area of the city.”
i tossed it out a while back to Bri Bri for a tip on CC, i drove by it and looked it up right away. I was digging the uniqueness.
“Groove, Chris, is it my screen or are those very dark photos in the 1911 newcastle link”
only dark if compared to vacation picture in iPhoto, normal if compared to the average realtor listing.
Icarus – The lighting is poor in the photos. But I’ve seen far worse.
HD – As you know, I bought a SFH in Oak Park late last year. I think the market overall has some more room to fall but rates were so attractive at the time and I found an estate sale property that I really liked and was able to negotiate 20% off asking price. It’s a 3BD/1BA SFH on a 35X172 lot. My mortgage is $1,080 and insurance is $45. Taxes are artifically low right now due to senior freeze but should be around $700 per month. That adds up to a PITI of about $1,825 per month. We rent 2 of the 3 garage spots for an extra $140/month, so net expense (before utilities) is $1,685 per month. The house is older and needs some updating and having a 1/2 bath already in place would have been nice, but we felt the monthly expense was reasonable give the location, size, and amenities/schools.
Chris M:
$1,685 is doable for me. I don’t want a “2” in front of my mortgage.
How do you plan on getting the money to update the house? Do you plan on doing it yourself over time, or dipping into savings, or taking out a home equity loan at some point in the future, or not update it at all? I know me, if I don’t move into an updated house, or update before I move in…well, life happens and my kid will be in college before I decide to update the kitchen circa 1972 in 2025.
HD – It’s actually not that dated. The house had some good updates within the last few years…new roof/gutters, new high efficiency boiler, all wood floors refinished, etc. Kitchen and bathroom aren’t new…maybe 20 years old but in very liveable condition. For me, updating plumbing and electrical, as neeeded, is more of a priority than updating kitchen and bath. After putting down 20%, I still have a good amount of savings but I prefer to only tap into that for critical repairs or emergencies. In general, I will tackle what I can myself and will tackle the rest over time. I don’t plan to take out a home equity loan or HELOC to do any of the work. I’m hoping to pay off the note within 15-20 years.
“$1,685 is doable for me. I don’t want a “2? in front of my mortgage.”
HD – I hope you are kidding, right? 1685/month?!!! In a good neighborhood with good schools?!!! Not even in the suburbs will you find something like that.. In fact, not even for rent. Do yourself a favor, start some LSAT courses and tutor kids in your spare time to make more money to provide for your family. You are seriously delusional if you think you can get ANYTHING decent for that total monthly payment (for a family in a good school district).
clio – like I’ve said, I can afford more, much much more, I just don’t want to PAY anymore. I’m a very modest person.
$2,050 for a 15-year fixed.
“Speaking of which, what does everyone here who owns pay as PITI?”
“You are seriously delusional if you think you can get ANYTHING decent for that total monthly payment (for a family in a good school district).”
clio, Chris M seems to have found something.
“G – I accept your bet…If I lose, then Sabrina can ban me.”
http://cribchatter.com/?p=10069#comment-133284
“clio, Chris M seems to have found something.”
G–clio pretty clearly doesn’t consider OPRF a “good school district”. AFAI can tell, his list is two: HC and NT, tho I may have missed something else.
“clio – like I’ve said, I can afford more, much much more, I just don’t want to PAY anymore. I’m a very modest person.”
Well – duh – who the f wants to pay more? However, wishing and reality are two completely separate things. Good God – you are acting like a spoiled little kid who wants everything his way. Sorry, buddy but you are going to have to pay up if you want a decent house in a decent neighborhood with good schools. Period
“G–clio pretty clearly doesn’t consider OPRF a “good school district”. AFAI can tell, his list is two: HC and NT, tho I may have missed something else.”
Anon, that’s not fair. I am very open minded – there are a lot of great schools out there (other than HC, NT):
Loyola Academy
IMSA
Fenwick
UC Lab Schools
G – how much time did you wasted trying to find that comment? Boy – you really need to either get another job or get another hobby.!!!
I guess anon was right, since clio hasn’t named any more actually in school districts. Very open minded, indeed.
“G – I accept your bet…If I lose, then Sabrina can ban me.”
clio – i’m sure he book marked the comment so he wasted no time at all.
“Speaking of which, what does everyone here who owns pay as PITI?”
I pay about $5500. I think the minimum is about $2200. I am an idiot 2/2-condo-zero-down-in-2005 buyer.
“G – how much time did you wasted trying to find that comment? Boy – you really need to either get another job or get another hobby.!!!”
Saving a link wasn’t very difficult. I had a feeling it would be helpful. Then again, your repeated declarations of superiority must mean that you will win the bet, right?
it’s a certainty that clio will welch if he loses this bet.
I am not surprised either. Did you work for KGB at some point of your life G? I mean I have never seen someone who holds a grudge like you…lol
“Saving a link wasn’t very difficult. I had a feeling it would be helpful.”
Nat: Ouch. But if you’re paying it off (rather quickly I might add) you’re substantially lessening the amount of interest you will pay in the long run. Impressive.
HD: We’re at $3k.
BTW, I read this thing last night:
http://patrick.net/housing/market.html
I thought the rent-price-ratio criterion is pretty interesting. This might be why we have seen some of the low priced homes sell fast and as Sabrina says the mid range 500-800K seem to have trouble selling.
“$1,685 is doable for me. I don’t want a “2? in front of my mortgage.”
That is a PITI of only about 20% of monthly gross for a family making 100k. Does your wife work?
HD, we are at around 1600 a month. We have a 15 year mortgage though.
“I mean I have never seen someone who holds a grudge like you…lol”
What use do I have for anyone that purposely misrepresents my comments and flings turds when called out on it? I don’t think it is holding a grudge so much as having no use for someone like that once I know they have lied repeatedly. You know what I mean?
“Speaking of which, what does everyone here who owns pay as PITI?”
$2k (+ $350 fees and about $400 tax).
HD:
I’m just trying to keep with depreciation 🙂
If my condo were worth what I paid for it, I would have like 25% equity now. As it stands, I may have equity – not sure yet.
G, to lie means “a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive,” if someone misrepresents or misunderstands your statement, you can call them on that and point it out to them. Believe me it works much better than calling them a lier repeatedly.
I have nothing against you and no deliberate intent to misrepresent your position. I have actually agreed and do agree with you on many accounts but you seem to have it in your mind that I have nothing better to lie about you : )
If there is every a CC get together, I will bring you some nice wine (or beer if you’d rather) so you will stop thinking I am the enemy. Actually you and HD’s pessimistic viewpoint has been very helpful to me to learn to exercise more caution. So there it is out in the open, stop being so sensitive each time I misunderstand something you say. I even used your knife catcher phrase this week discussing RE with friends : )
Just because $2,000 is less than 20% of my HH income doesn’t mean I want to spend $2,000.
“#chukdotcom on May 16th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
“$1,685 is doable for me. I don’t want a “2? in front of my mortgage.”
That is a PITI of only about 20% of monthly gross for a family making 100k. Does your wife work?”
This is why I want as small as a mortgage payment as possible:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chibrkbus-late-mortgage-payments-fall-for-5th-straight-month-20110516,0,2734085.story
Far more homeowners in the Chicago area were behind on their mortgage payments at the end of March than in Illinois or the nation as a whole, a troubling sign given the recent improvements in the local unemployment picture.
Some 7.75 percent of area borrowers were 60 days or more past due on their mortgages in the first quarter, credit reporting firm TransUnion said Monday. That compares with 7.79 percent in 2010’s third quarter and 7.65 percent for the fourth quarter. The average mortgage debt for local borrowers rose to $206,538 in the first quarter, after declining slightly in the fourth quarter.
The Chicago area and Illinois did not follow the national trend of improving mortgage delinquency.
For the state as a whole, 6.5 percent of mortgages were 60 days or more past due at the end of March, compared with 6.45 percent at the end of 2010. Nationally, the mortgage delinquency rate was 6.19 percent in the first quarter, compared with 6.41 percent in 2010’s fourth quarter.
Mortgage delinquencies were expected to remain flat or slow in their rate of decline, particularly give the continuing decrease in home prices and the upward pressure that this puts on mortgage delinquency rates, said Tim Martin, a TransUnion group vice president.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
“I thought the rent-price-ratio criterion is pretty interesting. This might be why we have seen some of the low priced homes sell fast and as Sabrina says the mid range 500-800K seem to have trouble selling.”
I expect you’re thinking mostly about condos, as (mostly) the SFHs that are for rent around Chicago in nicer areas are either not “sale ready” or not longterm-ish options.
And while it’s interesting, as applied, it becomes pretty obvious: Using his ratio, something that rents for $5,000/mo is “ok to buy” at $660k, but *borderline* at $1,000,000. And a “do not buy” at $2,000,000.
For a (more typical) $2000/mo rental, it’s ok at $265k, borderline at $400k, and no-go at $800k. Seems pretty obvious to me, except, perhaps, the breakpoints. At prevailing mortgage rates, I might shift the “borderline” to a % to your fixed-rate mortgage, and “ok” to 7.5-8, but the concept is fundamentally sound.
miu–I may be wrong, but I took that to be all about someone else. He has a certain way when he’s harshing you, and that wasn’t it.
Yes anon, I am thinking mostly condos for us that is why we have to add the assessments to the pool too. At least at a reasonable rent parity, one can rent and hold out rather than keep bleeding which seems to be the case often these days.
I also find his point about it is better to buy when rates are high than low interesting. I don’t entirely agree with it, but it is exact opposite of what Realtors tell folks.
lol…I know that there is a Clio-G battle going on, but for some reason G put me in camp Clio which is not true. I have disagreed many times with Clio, but he is mostly quite a good sport except when he does a bit of Bob with calling people idiots and all. Actually in fairness to Bob he has been much better lately : )
“I also find his point about it is better to buy when rates are high than low interesting. I don’t entirely agree with it, but it is exact opposite of what Realtors tell folks.”
Realtors who say that don’t understand basic personal finance. If you buy what you can afford when rates are high–and this is *w/o* regard to whether median, average or individual unit prices are lower or not–then, if rates go down, you suddenly have a much lower monthly housing cost. If you buy when rates are low–like now–there is very little chance, short of paying off the mortgage, of ever being able to reduce your monthly cost.
My PITI is under 2k, all frickin taxes and insurance
Exactly Anon, but to be honest I think many people (including yours truly) did not see it clearly before I read the article. Also Sabrina is right it is a nation of monthly payments so when rates are low folks end up buying more expensive places, then if economy takes a down turn or rates go up and therefore, home prices go down, they are under water. Even we were tempted to get a 650K place because of low rates, but in reality we should not buy anything over 500 or 550K max to be comfortable and safe.
First of all, everyone here should understand that the people that post are probably not representative of home buyers out there. Think about it – for a 400k place, your PITI (even with 100k down) is going to be 2500/month. Everyone here is stating their PITI is less than that?!!! Are you kidding me? If you don’t believe me that things are starting to sell – take a look at what is under contract vs for sale. We are at or above 20-25% in the GZ. That is pretty good.
“Think about it – for a 400k place, your PITI (even with 100k down) is going to be 2500/month. ”
You’re rounding. Or assuming assessments (which is probably fair).
Clio, we have a 1BR in town hence our number is low. I think most folks have at least a 2BR or above. Also we paid much more than 20% down.
Message to Laura:
Galewood actually scores pretty well on convenience, particularly if you’re located in the Sayre to Oak Park Avenue corridor. There are TWO Metra stations, near Sayre and at Oak Park Ave, plus at Narragansett. There’s Brickyard Mall on Fullerton, east of Oak Park and west of Narragansett, with Target, Marshalls, Jewel, Aldi, Lowes, Pier One, Office Big-Box, Sports Big-Box, etc. Clean and safe. Further west on North Avenue are a dozen decent restaurants. It’s a sleeper neighborhood. With a bike and small car, you can live a semi-green lifestyle, particularly if you buy a deep lot house and plant your own vegetable patch and orchard.
For schools, parents can always opt for St Vincent Ferrer in RF, then Fenwick in OP. Sayre School has a nice campus and building.
problem is that in a strong economy one would expect prices and rates rise. That guy is off the charts with his definite correlations and guaranteed outcomes.
I’m just different maybe but if I have a 30yr fix and rates slowly rise 3 or 4 percent, we stop the argument of prepaying pricipal on that loan.
HD, Groove, et al.
What are your thoughts on this house in Galewood: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2038-N-Sayre-Ave-60707/home/13431862
The house at 2038 N Sayre- bleh. Another American 4-square, very stodgy and boring.
“What are your thoughts on this house in Galewood”
350k and a 50×200 lot, some vintage intact, a pond, 3k in taxes
you can see why its under contract!
there was also 2132 sayre on the market a while back when i was looking that was bigger and had a very open living space that had good bones and didnt need too much updating.
Chris, What do you think 2038 sayre would cost in oak park and what do you think the taxes would end up at?
“Chris, What do you think 2038 sayre would cost in oak park and what do you think the taxes would end up at?”
Groove – It’s hard to say because because similar properties in Oak Park don’t have such a huge lot, but I would guess about $100k more. So if this sells for $325k, I would imagine this would go for $425k in Oak Park or perhaps a little more. Taxes would be at least $10k.
That’s a nice house at a great price. I wish other neighborhoods would follow the lead.
“That’s a nice house at a great price. I wish other neighborhoods would follow the lead.”
Um, of course, the reason that the house is a “great” price is *because* of the neighborhood. You can find nice houses for great prices in Kane County, too. [just beating clio to this one]
“Groove – It’s hard to say because because similar properties in Oak Park don’t have such a huge lot”
so a question to you that me and anon played, would you rather have a 50×200, a 25×250, or a 75×125 foot lot? and why?
and true its hard to tell what a home in OP would cost if hypothetical cause if its in the mann dist gues what add another 100k to the 100k already and then taxes would be 12k
throw it on the other side by madison and austin ave then price might be the same.
throw it in berwyn then the price will only be 50k more.
put that house in a GZ and your talking 900k-1.7 mil
“That’s a nice house at a great price. I wish other neighborhoods would follow the lead.”
anon hits it, its a hood nobody even know exists and knows how nice it is so there is not too much demand and prices stay low.
remember how low mayfair was before old irving got crazy priced?
Chris – I love the house on Sayre. It’s gorgeous and close to 2 Metra stops.
“there was also 2132 sayre on the market a while back when i was looking that was bigger and had a very open living space that had good bones and didnt need too much updating.”
Groovy, how come you didn’t bid on that one?
“What are your thoughts on this house in Galewood: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2038-N-Sayre-Ave-60707/home/13431862”
When you’re this far out why not just move to OP or RF for the better schools? They’re right nearby and you avoid the CPS hassles if you plan on having kiddos.
Not a great PPSF either at $175. A block south there’s a slightly less visually appealing house on the same street with an extra bath for $143 PPSF.
“Groovy, how come you didn’t bid on that one?”
nobody said i didnt 🙂
So…what happened? I’m dying to know!
“so a question to you that me and anon played, would you rather have a 50×200, a 25×250, or a 75×125 foot lot? and why?”
Groove – I’d take the 50X200 lot. It’s the largest square footage but, that aside, I’d find those proportions most pleasing. My second choice would be 75X125, and I know Anon is a fan of the wide lots. 25X250 would just seem strange to me…too deep for how narrow the lot is.
“When you’re this far out why not just move to OP or RF for the better schools? They’re right nearby and you avoid the CPS hassles if you plan on having kiddos.”
I agree with this and that’s why I picked Oak Park. But there’s no sense in paying the high taxes if someone is planning to go the Catholic or other private school route.
“When you’re this far out why not just move to OP or RF for the better schools? They’re right nearby and you avoid the CPS hassles if you plan on having kiddos.”
few reasons why, one is the taxes are better and WILL start becoming larger so the % difference will be a huge factor. two is the people, people who choose the this type of hood i find to be more grounded and “real” and more pleasnt neighbors not just willing to pitch in to help the block but will do so without solicitation. three you still get to use the burb services and amenities but dont have to pay for them.
four, and the biggest one of them all is having a “chicago” address. some have to live within the city to keep their jobs and some cant write back to iowa without that return adress as it looks like they failed in the big citay, then there is some like me have a mental disorder and think if my driver license does not say chicago that i have turned my back on my upbringing
“Groove – I’d take the 50X200 lot. It’s the largest square footage but, that aside, I’d find those proportions most pleasing. My second choice would be 75X125, and I know Anon is a fan of the wide lots. 25X250 would just seem strange to me…too deep for how narrow the lot is.”
i would rather have the 75 wide one as it gives “breathing room on all sides of the home to get sun and a nice breeze.
I know, I know. I love that fox river valley area (except south elgin) and if I didn’t work downtown it would be an acceptable alternative to where I live now. however, I don’t want a 2 hour commute each way (or just slightly less if I take the metra incl driving).
“You can find nice houses for great prices in Kane County, too. [just beating clio to this one]”
“i would rather have the 75 wide one as it gives “breathing room on all sides of the home to get sun and a nice breeze.”
Also a shorter walk to the trashcans in the alley, which makes up for not having sonies’ chute.
Milkster–the 2132 house was asking $575–I bet Groove offered them $350 (or tree-fitty, if we’re involving the loch ness monster).
HD – The Sayre house sold in 2001 for $287,000. That being said, do you think the current list price is still reasonable or would you expect it to eventually sell for less than that price?
“I know, I know. I love that fox river valley area (except south elgin) and if I didn’t work downtown it would be an acceptable alternative to where I live now. however, I don’t want a 2 hour commute each way (or just slightly less if I take the metra incl driving). ”
Right, which is why you are stuck dealing with the tradeoffs–most people who have your commute preferences and approximate family income *ARE* willing to have a mortgage payment that starts with a 2.
“I know, I know. I love that fox river valley area (except south elgin) and if I didn’t work downtown it would be an acceptable alternative to where I live now. however, I don’t want a 2 hour commute each way”
HD when you visit it would seem like a nice place to live. I got family in cary and mchenry and every trip out there we think wow this is nice.
well it because we are only interacting with our family, we made a stop at walmart on rt31 one time and WTF if i had to go there on a weekly basis i would need zoloft and a weekly shrink just too keep a gun out of my mouth.
“Milkster–the 2132 house was asking $575–I bet Groove offered them $350 (or tree-fitty, if we’re involving the loch ness monster)”
if there was one anon got the numbers right. but i dont think i would have insulted them that much it was a big place on a big lot very open. but a wood frame place.
“what do you think the taxes would end up at?”
Effective sfh tax rates as % of market value:
Chicago = 1.56%
Oak Park = 2.79%
This does not include the homeowner’s exemption (which is not a % and impacts lower values more than higher.) Taxes are almost 80% higher in Oak Park for the same market value.
Some more of the latest available effective rates (some are approx due to varying taxing units in municipality):
Cook County 2009:
Chicago 1.6%
Wilmette 1.7%
Barrington 1.7%
Northbrook 1.7%
Kenilworth 1.8%
Glencoe 1.9%
Niles 2.0%
Park Ridge 2.0%
Lincolnwood 2.2%
Palos Heights 2.2%
Des Plaines 2.2%
LaGrange 2.2%
Schaumburg 2.2%
Skokie 2.4%
Arlington Heights 2.4%
Palatine 2.4%
Hoffman Estates 2.4%
River Forest 2.5%
Orland Park 2.5%
Oak Lawn 2.7%
Riverside 2.7%
Oak Park 2.8%
Berwyn 2.9%
Olympia Fields 3.2%
Cicero 3.3%
Homewood 3.6%
Flossmoor = 3.8%
Maywood = 3.9%
Lansing = 3.9%
Park Forest = 5.0%
Riverdale = 5.1%
Ford Heights = 6.9%
DuPage County 2009:
Oak Brook 0.9%
Willowbrook 1.2%
Burr Ridge 1.3%
Hinsdale 1.3%
Oak Brook Terrace 1.4%
Clarendon Hills 1.5%
Downers Grove 1.5%
Elmhurst 1.6%
Westmont 1.7%
Darien 1.7%
Wood Dale 1.7%
Itasca 1.8%
Roselle 1.8%
Naperville 1.8%
Villa Park 1.8%
Bloomingdale 1.9%
Addison 1.9%
Warrenville 1.9%
Wheaton 1.9%
Glen Ellyn 2.0%
Lisle 2.0%
Elk Grove Village 2.0%
Lombard 2.0%
Wayne 2.1%
Winfield 2.1%
Bensenville 2.1%
Bolingbrook 2.3%
Woodridge 2.3%
Bartlett 2.4%
Carol Stream 2.4%
Aurora 2.5%
West Chicago 2.5%
Hanover Park 2.5%
Glendale Heights 2.7%
Lake County 2010:
Lake Forest 1.4%
Lake Barrington 1.8%
Lake Bluff 1.9%
Highwood 2.1%
Riverwoods 2.1%
Highland Park 2.1%
Libertyville 2.2%
Deerfield 2.3%
Gurnee 2.4%
Long Grove 2.4%
Vernon Hills 2.5%
Buffalo Grove 2.6%
Wauconda 2.7%
Mundelein 2.9%
Round Lake Beach 3.1%
North Chicago 3.3%
Waukegan 3.7%
Zion 3.9%
“we made a stop at walmart on rt31 one time and WTF”
Forays into walmarts in cook, dupage and lake counties aren’t too bad, but go any further and you honest-to-god will believe that ‘people of walmart’ could be shot exclusively in any one of them.
G – thanks for the information. Buyers should absolutely be aware that these taxes are just going to keep increasing which is going to make home ownership in some of the highest taxed areas very unappealing. That being said – look at oak brook’s tax rate of 0.9% – the lowest in the state!!!
So some 80+% of the kids at Sayre school are “at or above” standards and that’s a “red flag” for prospective home buyers? Sounds like a pretty typical situation at many schools – urban, suburban and rural – across the USA. Only in Lake Wobegone are “all the kids above average” and frankly I’m highly suspicious of schools (except for the absolute top-drawer prep academies) that boast about “100% college acceptance” for their senior classes.
How many of those kids are ultimately going to obtain a 4-year degree in a useful major, and how many are going to just “pass the time on daddy’s dime” until they get a cushy job in the family business, or maybe a marriage proposal from a trust-fund baby? Or how many would really rather be working with their hands in a job that’s very much needed by the rest of society, however much it may be regarded as “low-class” etc.? (A good auto mechanic is worth his weight in gold IMHO, which is more than I can say for some “professionals.”)
Some of the low rate areas are going to have a hard time keeping rates down, too, if they want to keep their high level of parks, schools and services going. Lack of appeal of homeownership in the highest taxed areas has already put them in a seemingly unrecoverable spiral that was masked somewhat by the bubble but is now out of control. It is, indeed, places like Oak Brook that have limited services and low rates that won’t likely see as much change (relatively speaking.)
Only those that drank the kool-aid in the last 8 or 9 years!
“Right, which is why you are stuck dealing with the tradeoffs–most people who have your commute preferences and approximate family income *ARE* willing to have a mortgage payment that starts with a 2.”
Chris M: It’s got new windows, furnace, and roof. Without these, it would be selling for the 2001 price because the 2001 owner would have to pay for it. Also, don’t forget that this is one of the more reasonably valued homes in the area given my precursory search on Redfin. There just isn’t a lot of decent inventory for sale and most newer properties in the top 10% sell pretty quickly. My estimated guess is that it sells between $325 and $335.
“but go any further and you honest-to-god will believe that ‘people of walmart’ could be shot exclusively in any one of them.”
my wife loves that site, me i just become sad for society as a whole 🙁
we went into a Buy Buy Baby and Kohl’s out in crystal lake one time and it really wasnt “that” bad but the walmart freaked me out.
Awesome Tax detail list G!!!!!!!!!!
i didnt see lincolnshire on the list and i assume theirs is high also as i read somewhere there spending per pupil at Adai and k-8 schools is up there and somebody has to pay for that.
Lincolnshire 2010 2.3%
“Lincolnshire 2010 2.3%”
thx, lower than i thought and so was riverwoods too. i would have thought riverwoods would be higher as it contracts out all its services and has no commercial income that i know of.
“Only those that drank the kool-aid in the last 8 or 9 years!”
Whatever it takes to get by.
“It is, indeed, places like Oak Brook that have limited services and low rates that won’t likely see as much change (relatively speaking.)”
WRONG!!!!! I own several properties in many cities/suburbs and I have to say that Oak Brook offers the best services (regardless of tax rates): best schools, best police/fire, best H20 deliver, best city services, etc. A 1 million dollar house in oak brook is taxed at about 6k/year. On the opposite end of the spectrum is West chicago where I own a cottage w/ septic/well water and crappy schools. It is worth 225 yet the taxes (without any city services) are 8.5k/year. Ridiculous!!!
It’s important to remember that the tax rates are a function of housing prices. So a community with high home prices will generally have a lower tax rate and vice versa. In most areas with desirable public school districts the taxes will be around $10k for a typical “middle-class” dwelling. Areas like Wilmette, Kenilworth, etc have lower tax rates but much higher prices when compared to an area like Oak Park or La Grange. The cost to operate a good school is largely independent of housing prices.
I had to verify that claim, Clio, so I looked up current listings of Oak Brook properties listed between $900k and $1.1M. Here’s the data for active SFH listings:
MLS # List Price Street Number Compass Point Street Name City Property Address On Internet? (Y/N) Area County Taxes Tax Year
07647483 900000 23 Baybrook Oak Brook Yes 523 DuPage 14999.68 2009
07552584 925000 716 HARGER Oak Brook Yes 523 DuPage 11322.26 2010
07624725 995000 719 MIDWEST CLUB Oak Brook Yes 523 DuPage 24098.32 2009
07745848 995000 4 DOVER Oak Brook Yes 523 DuPage 6700 2009
07543617 997000 803 MERRY Oak Brook Yes 523 DuPage 10,444 2009
07754271 1000000 39 WOODSIDE Oak Brook Yes 523 DuPage 10665.5 2009
07704228 1019000 101 TIMBER TRAIL Oak Brook Yes 523 DuPage 10940.76 2009
07805142 1075000 221 Wood Glen Oak Brook Yes 523 DuPage 12445 2009
07713093 1099000 407 ASCOT Oak Brook Yes 523 DuPage 11000 2009
07718561 1099000 1206 MIDWEST CLUB Oak Brook Yes 523 DuPage 12198 2009
07629976 1100000 3400 MEYERS Oak Brook Yes 523 DuPage 17509 2009
Sorry…this will be easier to read. Tax amount and tax year are the last two columns:
MLS # List Price Street Number Street Name City Taxes Tax Year
07647483 900000 23 Baybrook Oak Brook 14999.68 2009
07552584 925000 716 HARGER Oak Brook 11322.26 2010
07624725 995000 719 MIDWEST CLUB Oak Brook 24098.32 2009
07745848 995000 4 DOVER Oak Brook 6700 2009
07543617 997000 803 MERRY Oak Brook 10,444 2009
07754271 1000000 39 WOODSIDE Oak Brook 10665.5 2009
07704228 1019000 101 TIMBER TRAIL Oak Brook 10940.76 2009
07805142 1075000 221 Wood Glen Oak Brook 12445 2009
07713093 1099000 407 ASCOT Oak Brook 11000 2009
07718561 1099000 1206 MIDWEST CLUB Oak Brook 12198 2009
07629976 1100000 3400 MEYERS Oak Brook 17509 2009
So, based on active listings on the MLS, it would seem that a $1M dollar house in Oak Brook is generally taxed around $13,000.
Chris M –
before you post – you should understand what you are posting:
1. Oak Brook has many tax districts – the most exclusive areas of oak brook are in the oak brook school district where there is no municipal tax. The majority of listings you post are in Oak Brook proper but are NOT in the Oak Brook school district (they are in the elmhurst, downers, villa park districts). That being so, these properties have to pay those other municipalities to use their schools, hence THEIR tax rate is much higher.
2. The listed price does not reflect assessed value.
When you factor in those two stipulations, the only properties that meet the criteria of which I posted is 4 Dover Ct – so stop fucking cherry picking data to make me look wrong – I DON’T FUCKING LIE
on the lot thing here is a saug 70 foot wide lot!
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5616-N-Kolmar-Ave-60646/home/13514154
Chris and anyone – if you wish to verify what I am saying – look for houses in Oak Brook in school district 53 (oak brook school district). Facts are facts – the tax rates are published. Seriously, don’t be stupid
Clio – Thanks for the info. I wasn’t aware of those two stipulations.
Clio, I looked up SFHs in school district 53 that sold in the last 12 months between $800k and $1.2M. Here are the properties and their annual tax bills.
MLS # List Price Street Number Street Name City Taxes Tax Year
07637640 $899,000 62 WINDSOR Oak Brook $9,532 2009
07404351 $920,000 17 HAMILTON Oak Brook $8,398 2008
07659138 $995,000 1 CROYDON Oak Brook $7,961 2009
07473910 $1,149,900 605 MARIAN SQUARE Oak Brook $9,486 2009
07444117 $1,199,000 1 Pembroke Oak Brook $11,655 2008
07561867 $1,350,000 508 Midwest Club Oak Brook $13,914 2009
07617246 $1,199,000 315 TRINITY Oak Brook $10,348 2009
07452715 $1,299,000 320 Trinity Oak Brook $11,676 2008
07654152 $1,400,000 407 FOX TRAIL Oak Brook $12,777 2008
07607657 $1,499,900 209 INDIAN TRAIL Oak Brook $11,605 2009
No problem Chris – but now I look like an asshole for being so mean!! No hard feelings.
Groove77 re: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5616-N-Kolmar-Ave-60646/home/13514154
Three listings in 3 years. The third time is a charm, right?
Property History for 5616 N KOLMAR Ave
Date Event Price Appreciation Source
May 16, 2011 Listed (New) $749,900 — MRED #07808220
Dec 06, 2010 – Delisted (Cancelled) — — Inactive MRED #2
Aug 12, 2010 – Listed (New) * — Inactive MRED #2
May 28, 2009 – Delisted — — Inactive MRED #1
Apr 15, 2009 – Listed * — Inactive MRED #1
Dec 12, 2001 Sold (Public Records) $505,000 — Public Records
Chris – those later properties are more reflective of the true oak brook tax – but if you look at their assessed value – they are all assessed much higher than their selling price. You have to look at properties in school district 53 assessed at 1 million – and the taxes should be closer to 6k (for example, one of my neighbors sold their tear down house (land value) for 800k and their taxes are 5k.
“assessed at 1 million – and the taxes should be closer to 6k”
For anyone interested in actual facts, I picked an Oak Brook house in SD53 at random with an assessed market value of $1,223,500 with a homeowner’s exemption. The tax bill for 2010/pay2011 is $11,708.06.
Here is the calcluation for an Oak Brook house in SD53 with a $1M assessed market value:
Fair Cash Value = 1,000,000
Assessed Value = 333,300
Equalized Value = 333,300
Residential Exemption = 6,000
Net Taxable Value = 327,300
Tax Rate = 2.9139
Total Tax Due = $9,537
Once again, the facts do not support clio’s claims.
The IAR numbers for June will be released around July 20th. That means only nine weeks and counting until Shut The F Up For Good Day.
Oh yeah, one other thing, that 2010 Oak Brook tax rate of 2.9139 is a 10.5% increase over the 2009 rate of 2.6368.
G – oak brook’s municipal tax rate is, and has always been 0 (ZERO). The increases have to do with the county component, idiot.
“Three listings in 3 years. The third time is a charm, right?”
HomeDelete,
i dont agree with the price but a 70′ wide lot is mighty appealing!
and if the frontage was facing the forest preserve i could back the price.
or for the same price HD would you want to live next to annony? http://cribchatter.com/?p=10521
which would you rather have?
“Chris and anyone – if you wish to verify what I am saying – look for houses in Oak Brook in school district 53 (oak brook school district). Facts are facts – the tax rates are published. Seriously, don’t be stupid”
clio, I did. You were wrong, and, by your own definition, stupid. As for your resultant commments, I have come to expect the disjointed personal attacks from someone so demonstrably stupid.
*Only nine weeks and counting until Shut The F Up For Good Day.*
G – seriously, get a life… I don’t want to be mean, but you leave no choice. You have problems and maybe the solution is to ignore my posts – it works for others and it will make you (and me) much happier!!! Again, no hard feelings – but I really don’t want to play with you. You are weird and a bit psycho.
clio, seriously, I’m happy pointing out your factual errors. You can take your advice and ignore it anytime. Instead, you choose to launch incoherent personal attacks when your bs is exposed. No hard feelings for me in pointing out your nonsense. Besides, one of us will be gone in nine weeks anyway.
“Besides, one of us will be gone in nine weeks anyway.”
Where are you going?
Clio: you agreed to the bet. You lose it and you are gone.
I could lose our bet and be banned from cc.
Come to think of it you’re right, I won’t lose.
G and Bob – I am needed to balance out the idiots on this site who keep falsely informing the young public that prices are going to continue to fall.
Nine more weeks.
Can u stop this already. Clio and his/her split personalities aren’t going anywhere. Clio is a shill. Simple as that. Not going anywhere, please stop the countdown. Just pointless.
i’ve been critical of things clio has said in the past, but I do have to believe he’s at least a man of his word.
you will honor the bet if you lose, right, clio? weren’t you the one who offered to “bet anything” first, and then accepted G’s terms?
“you will honor the bet if you lose, right, clio? weren’t you the one who offered to “bet anything” first, and then accepted G’s terms?”
I’m insulted on clio’s behalf that you even ask the question, roma. He *never* lies, so there can be no reason to doubt now, can there?
I apologize to both of you. Of course your word is worth something, clio. Sorry for doubting. If you win the bet, you’ll obviously be gracious in victory (though firm in enforcing the stakes), and if you lose, we can obviously trust you’ll honor the terms you agreed to.
Yes, I will honor the bet and will not post here again.
Man, what is this junior high? Egging Clio on? Why cannot you all live and let live.
All village and city tax levies for 2009 for cook county are found here:
http://www.cookcountyclerk.com/tsd/DocumentLibrary/2009%20Cook%20County%20Tax%20Rates%20Report.pdf
Tax rates are factual and require no special analysis. The actual village taxes (not park district or schools) are expressed as a % of Equalized Assessed Value (EAV). Converting EAV to Market Value (MV) is purely amathematical exercise since its 10% x the EAV multiplier 3.3701 in 2009, which is .33701. Simply take any of the tax rates and multiply by .33701 to convert % EAV to % MV. Take any of the composite rates — for example mine which is 5.288% — and you get 1.8% effective.
But the issue in question I thought was the village or city rate, not the composite rate which includes everything — schools, park districts, libraries, special service areas, etc. Clio is correct that Oak Brook is zero on the village rate. You can see it on the Proviso Township composite as a portion of it is in that township.
I am not sure a low effective rate is a good thing. In some cases, such as where I am, it is indicative of overpriced MVs relative to the municipal services consumed and not efficiency of tax expenditures. In other cases, you are taxed less but get way less than that. Taxes paid for services actually received is a better analysis — harder to quanitify but it has been done. On this dimension, Chicago doesn’t look so good — CPS schools fail beyond 8th grade for anyone other than gifted students and gang infested neighborhoods require lots of resources to police which is not consumed by the average citizen.
“Yes, I will honor the bet and will not post here again.”
Code for — a new moniker will suddenly appear that walks like a duck and talks like a duck.
Or an old moniker since C at least once hilariously posted under a pen name in support of himself but later accidently signed in and posted as C under his alias.
Southbound – you are obviously an alter ego of a regular here (?G) – and also ONLY post when my name comes up – but rest assured, I won’t post here again.
“Man, what is this junior high? Egging Clio on? Why cannot you all live and let live.”
For many on here, I think CC can be like 8th grade, and not only for those egging Clio on, but for him too…
And then was allegedly caught by someone who works in his office who also happens to post on CC.
“#Southbound on May 17th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
Or an old moniker since C at least once hilariously posted under a pen name in support of himself but later accidently signed in and posted as C under his alias.”
under contract immediately in L-B:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5459-N-Lakewood-Ave-60640/home/13402886
That is a nice house roma, and I like L-B and love the library in this place, but for 1.3M as much as I like the city I’d have to buy a house in Oak Park that I think would be nicer and have a larger lot. For this price, where is the exposed woodwork or something to make me go “Wow”?
benjamon – taxes are less than 11k for a 1.3 million house in this location. In Oak Park, taxes would be 25-30k for a similarly priced house. Read G’s tax numbers above
Yes, clio, but as discussed above, suburban taxes pay for better schools than CPS. I’d take the higher taxes and living in the burbs for the better schools, bigger lot, and nicer house.
“I am needed to balance out the idiots on this site who keep falsely informing the young public that prices are going to continue to fall.”
Clio- so you don’t dispute that they are still falling then, right?
Of course they won’t fall for forever.
The questions are:
1. When will prices stop falling?
2. What will make them stop falling?
This housing bust is new for everyone. Chicago housing prices haven’t fallen since the Great Depression (other than downtown condos in the early 1980s.) No one knows what to expect or how it will play out over the next several years.
I don’t think prices are falling – I think that everything is stabilizing – but the problems are:
1. inventory – nobody who doesn’t need to sell is selling – so there is a lack of inventory. Those who needed to sell have already sold at a deep discount – I truly believe there are less deals out there now than there were last year.
2. stagnation – those who can afford are definitely sticking to their prices – they are more stubborn than ever
I think we will bounce around at the bottom for the next couple of years followed by slowly rising prices in 2013-2015 followed by another boom by 2020. I am 100% confident that another boom will come by 2020 – no doubt about it. Therefore, if people can buy now and hang on until 2020, they will likely make out well (esp if their carrying costs are not prohibitive).
“1. inventory – nobody who doesn’t need to sell is selling – so there is a lack of inventory.”
There IS less inventory on the market right now than in years past (at least for Chicagoland as a whole. I don’t have the breakdowns for individual neighborhoods.) But I wouldn’t call it a “lack” of inventory.
Sellers know they’ll get killed if they list so they’re not listing unless they positively have to (or are willing and able to eat the loss.)
What I’m seeing is that only the best properties in the most prestine condition are selling- for those selling at all. OR- they’re the super low priced foreclosures/short sales. Anything just so-so sits and sits and sits unless they price it low enough to get someone off the fence.
To me- it means prices are too high. The West Lincoln Park SFHs that have been sitting on the market for, in some cases, 2 years now- are simply priced too high. For those listed at $899k- if the prices were lowered to $600k or $650k- you’d see some sales (even for those not in pristine condition.) But the sellers are unrealistic about pricing.
But why would we have another “boom” by 2020? Chicago has never had “booms”. It has had steady appreciation- for the most part. What we saw in the last 10 years won’t be repeated for decades- unless you suddenly have easy credit again (which is unlikely.)
The housing boom was caused by a credit boom. Without the credit- you don’t get the housing boom.
Also- if the housing market doesn’t start to even recover for another few years (whatever “recover” means) you’ll have many baby boomers but certainly Generation X’ers completely financially obliterated by it (if they aren’t already.)
“2. stagnation – those who can afford are definitely sticking to their prices – they are more stubborn than ever”
What’s the point of having it on the market if it’s priced unrealistically? I realize that many sellers don’t have $100k or more to bring to the table to get it sold. But the realtors are doing them a dis-service by taking the listing and acting like their overpriced property is going to sell and they’ll get to move on.
Stubborn is stupid in this market. Just don’t list then.
“The housing boom was caused by a credit boom. Without the credit- you don’t get the housing boom.”
didn’t you see that Michael Moore film – credit is where the profit is. Right now, there is too much government scrutiny and involvement. Wait 5 years until the gov. is dealing with their own mess and then you will see credit standards being loosened. Add that to the newbies (kids in their teens right now who don’t understand the financial/housing mess) coming into this new credit and endless opportunities to buy and you will have the creation of another boom. The timing will be about 2020-2025 when both these things will coincide. Mark my words.
“What’s the point of having it on the market if it’s priced unrealistically?”
Again, it is psychological. I talk to homeowners all the time who have their houses on the market at unrealistic prices. I ask them why and the reason is that it gives them peace of mind and comfort knowing that they are at least actively doing something to change their lives and move (obviously these are people that don’t have to move but want to).
Roma, did you see this one in Lakewood Balmoral sold today:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5511-N-Lakewood-Ave-60640/home/13402608
“Wait 5 years until the gov. is dealing with their own mess and then you will see credit standards being loosened. Add that to the newbies (kids in their teens right now who don’t understand the financial/housing mess) coming into this new credit and endless opportunities to buy and you will have the creation of another boom. The timing will be about 2020-2025 when both these things will coincide. Mark my words.”
After the Great Depression (also a credit boom- let me remind you), it took nearly 60 years before credit was “loosened” as you have described.
By 2020-2025, anyone graduating college then will have so much debt they won’t even think about buying any kind of property. It will easily be costing $40k to $50k a year just to attend a state school. So who will there be for this “boom”? Sorry. I don’t agree. There has never been a credit expansion and bust and then another credit expansion within just a decade.
Oh- and the baby boomers will REALLY be selling all their properties by 2020. We’re just starting to see it now. Look around in the North Shore suburbs some day. There are dozens and dozens of properties all owned by baby boomers (you’ll know them when you see them.) Most of them paid off- but completely unrealistic about prices and/or finishes that the Generation X and Y want in their houses. Those prices have to come way, way, down.
dahliachi: wow- that’s REALLY expensive for Lakewood Balmoral. I’m a fan of those few blocks, but $1.5 million? Wow. Insanity if you ask me.
Groove re: Stevenson don’t they take pupils from several municipalities there, surely they’re not paying for all of them. Riverwoods may have gotten a cut of the Costco cash but I’m not 100% on that.
1- oh Clio my car lovin friend, credit got extended BECAUSE the gov’t got involved. It is them getting less involved that is tightening credit.
I can also agree with the psychology comment, with the exception that, it is someone who wants to tell themselves that their house is worth what they think it is and not what it really os worth. As long as this house stays offered at 800 i can mark it there.
Sabrina. I have not actually seen the L-B property but people will pay a premium for a house which is completely (tastefully) updated.
“Sabrina. I have not actually seen the L-B property but people will pay a premium for a house which is completely (tastefully) updated.”
I agree Dahliachi. It was completely renovated with new kitchen and baths and buyers LOVE that. They want new, new, new.
I’m just questioning the selling price. $1.5 million for THAT neighborhood? (which I like- but that has to be among the more expensive houses to sell up there in a long while.)
“Groove re: Stevenson don’t they take pupils from several municipalities there, surely they’re not paying for all of them. Riverwoods may have gotten a cut of the Costco cash but I’m not 100% on that.”
thank jenny, didnt know that.
havent been out to riverwoods for a while now didnt know they got a costco. i had to google map that and it looks like its on rt60 and i thought RW ends at halfday rd?
also does riverwoods feed into Stevenson also or is RW exclusively a deerfield school borrower?
HD,
you didnt answer my question?
http://cribchatter.com/?p=10517#comment-156874
C you cartoonish caricature you. I am no one’s alter ego but my own and I post when I believe I can add value to a discussion. I have posted about real estate development, Stevenson HS, EBC and many other subjects including giving you good advice about buying predevelopment land but as you believe you already know everything there is to know about real estate investing you dismissed mine and everyone elses advice. I do not know G or anyone else who posts but I would gladly have a beer w Grooove and would aim to avoid ever voluntarily spending time w/ a holes like you. You are so self centered you only notice my posts when they are about you. Ignore this!
“But the issue in question I thought was the village or city rate, not the composite rate which includes everything — schools, park districts, libraries, special service areas, etc. Clio is correct that Oak Brook is zero on the village rate. ”
Of course you think that’s the question, jmm, because you share his traits of straw men and moving the goalposts when called out. If the question was the village rate, why was clio incorrectly stating that that OB has prop taxes of $6k per $1M MV? Wouldn’t the correct answer have been $0?
The point of the list was for groove’s comparison of tax bills. He understood that and was grateful for the data. It isn’t a revelation to him that consideration must be given to what you get for the taxes.
Galewood…unwalkable neighborhood where you need a car just to pick up a gallon milk.”
This is a lie, most of the outer city, that the LP yuppies know nothing about, is walkable.
Hi tomm –
I love to walk. Someone on City Data mentioned this blog called “Vote with Your Feet”. The blogger does these super long treks and bike rides in the city and suburbs. His Belmont Avenue walk covers Montclare just north of Galewood:
http://votewithyourfeetchicago.blogspot.com/2009/04/walking-belmont-avenue.html
Milkster, thanks for the link…I think this guy did one on Lawrence.
BTW: never see you on Instant Messenger anymore..don’t be such a stranger 😀
“This is a lie, most of the outer city, that the LP yuppies know nothing about, is walkable.”
Hey Groove, looks like you and tomm have something in common.
Hi Icarus!
I hope your search is going well. I get home so late every day and then I cook dinner so I’m rarely ever on my home computer. (Btw, turkey meatloaf, baked potato “fries” and spicy sauerkraut sauteed with garlic, onion and red chili flakes tonight.) But e-mail me anytime 🙂
Sold for 320K on 2/20/2014.
http://hotpads.com/rentals/1710-N-Rutherford-Avenue-Chicago-IL-60707–50t8zb8taq2tq#limit=5&lat=41.91130065918&lon=-87.79396820068399&zoom=20&previewId=50t8zb8taq2tq&previewType=listing&detailsOpen=true&listingTypes=rental,sublet,room,corporate&propertyTypes=house,divided,condo,townhouse,medium,large,garden,&dupeGrouping=building
Rent for 2 years for $1,850, relist when the market is better. And it worked. Still I’d hate to be stuck with a property like that for two years as a flipper.
“I’d hate to be stuck with a property like that for two years as a flipper”
*Three* years. irr went all to hell.
Yeah, but it worked out, and maybe mr. flipper turned a profit.
also I figured out the gravitar issue. I’ve always used a fake email address on this site and crazy enough someone has already registered that address and assigned me said gravitar. but said person also appears to have abandoned the email too because graviator doesn’t even know the email address!
“maybe mr. flipper turned a profit.”
Assuming that he had it rented for at least 24 of those months, and that the rent was $1500+, he made money. Problem is that it was prob more like 5% annual, vs the 25%+ if he’d sold even at the $299k price when this was first posted here.