River North Timber Loft Listed Under the 1998 Price: 550 N. Kingsbury
This 2-bedroom timber loft at 550 N. Kingsbury in River North just came on the market.
It is bank owned.
The loft is currently listed for $5,100 under the 1998 purchase price.
The 2-bedroom unit has central air, washer/dryer in the unit. It also appears to have 2 parking spaces which are included in the price.
I’ve been told that it doesn’t face the expressway but that neither bedroom has windows.
Is this a steal for River North?
Katy Elliott at Great Lakes Realty has the listing. See the listing here (exterior picture only.)
(By the way- notice that it resold every two to three years- supporting the statistic that lofts resell, on average, every 2 to 3 years.)
Unit #210: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 2 car parking
- Sold in June 1995 for $256,000
- Sold in June 1998 for $355,000
- Sold in September 2001 for $440,000
- Sold in August 2004 for $478,000
- Sold in May 2006 for $499,000
- Lis pendens filed in December 2008
- Bank owned as of November 2009
- Currently listed for $349,900 (parking included)
- Assessments of $499 a month
- Taxes of $4864
- Bedroom #1: 14×12
- Bedroom #2: 14×11
- Living room: 26×28
- Laundry room: 6×10
Toured unit with client
Very large living room with decent river view
Kitchen/bathrooms need updating
nice laundry room in unit with w/d (side by side), boiler, etc
bedrooms are large but neither have a window-Client was hoping at least 1 of them would have a window
nice overall but not for that client
Wow its not a short sale and its 150k of their own $ they’re going to lose. This does not support my theory that most of these artsy fartsy loft folk don’t have real $ of their own and are just poseurs keeping up appearances.
Even prison cells have windows…
Bob: “Bank owned as of November 2009”
Uncommon to see a 2 bdrm unit in this building for under $400K. If I recall correctly, many units here have a bonus room — is that the case on this one?
As for the lack of bedroom windows, I don’t see what the big deal is. Bedrooms have two major functions, neither of which benefits from sunlight. As long as there’s sufficient light in the main living area, don’t need it elsewhere.
Living area was light and bright and lovely
-Bob
Its not a short sale because its a foreclosure.
I don’t think that posting is from the realy ‘Bob’ and is another fake like HomedeIete.
-EJ
The usual occupants of this type of home would be a DINK couple and the 2nd bedroom would be used for an office. Most people like natural light in the office. Also there the noise issue: no window so no complete walls. Noise travels in these open lofts. I have friends in a similar loft. They work conflicting schedules, so when she goes to bed hes got to tippy toes around. I remember picking him up one early morning for a trip. He had to take his blender into the outside patio to use it so she wouldn’t hear. Also once baby #1 comes along, the noise transfer will become even worse.
I think this is the biggest reason these places have a 2-3 year turn around. People buying now realize that this quick turnaround is not going to be practicle any longer. This makes these places even less desireable. I think lofts, especially smaller ones (2 beds w. less than 1200 ft2) are going to drop in desireablity. People will be looking for more traditional homes that they can occupy for 7-10 years, which was the norm prior to 2000.
Sabrina: “By the way- notice that it resold every two to three years- supporting the statistic that lofts resell, on average, every 2 to 3 years”
That may support that the MEDIAN (I like to say TYPICAL, as it encompasses median, but is a squishy, non-math term) loft sells every 2-3 years, but it would have to sell every month to help support an AVERAGE of 2-3 years.
HD: “Even prison cells have windows”
Haven’t been in (or read about) many modern prisons, have you? Mostly they don’t, unless you’re talking about the “window” thru the bars–which these BRs roughly have, too.
What’s the rationale for lofts to be resold so often? Is it quality or just the type of buyer? I really enjoy big open spaces, so as I look for my first place lofts are high on the list.
I think a lot of couples move into them without kids and then the kid comes along and they discover that the openness isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be.
Gary with all of their foresight they have for practical living is it your experience these folks even know how the kid came along?
One of the things I think happened during the bubble is that condos became starter homes. While I don’t have hard stats, this is just my general observation. In the past, at least in cities where there weren’t a lot of condos historically (like Atlanta where I am from), condos were basically luxury cribs. People also seemed to live in them for longer periods – they were larger spaces. However, as more folks moved back to downtown areas and the financing became easier for condos, it seems like condos became starter homes and they got progressively smaller.
I also think people’s ideas of what type of house and space they need have changed drastically too. Whole families used to be raised in 1000-1300 square foot houses, now everyone needs a 5 bed/4.5 bath house with a home theatre as soon as junior comes along. This is prompting this move up mentality where people won’t stay in their starter homes very long.
Why stay for long when you can flip and profit in so little time? Use the money for a dp on a house in Bucktown or RV.
Btw my parents neighborhood in cook county is full of ‘starter’ homes still inhabited by the original and now elderly residents…
Artsy fartsy types and date rapists? Classic River North combination…
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-match-sex-assaults-10jan10,0,3658669.story
You know, I wonder if the whole open floor plan thing is going to become passe. I hadn’t originally seen Tom’s comments above but they echo my own experience. If you look back we happily lived in homes with walls for decades. I personally don’t like the open floor plan. If someone is watching TV it permeates what would normally be several different rooms. I live in a 3000 sq ft home and with 4 people it’s hard to find quiet space other than the bedrooms.
If/when I have a kid Im not going to be concerned with practical living considerations like walls or schools or even financial considerations like the purchase of my McCrapbox. Such trivialties only apply to mere mortals & not urbane hipsters.
550 N Kingsbury has 133 total units. 86 of the 133 units had at least one closing in the past 11 years. Here are the number of MLS units closed for the past 11 years.
1999 = 20
2000 = 21
2001 = 19
2002 = 11
2003 = 21
2004 = 20
2005 = 11
2006 = 14
2007 = 8
2008 = 6
2009 = 9
11 yr total = 160
HD, no doubt and it will probably be heading back towards that too. Find a place you like with good schools, decent space, decent commute and buckle down.
Open floor plans suck. I have never been a big fan of the combo living room/dining room thing in most cases. During the run up, it was an excuse for developers to shave square footage. Most combos weren’t large enough for a real dining room table and large furniture in the living room.
Bob, another consideration people don’t make is that when they are older they will have diminished cash flow so it’s important to pay off the house. Social security, savings and maybe a pension is supposed to cover everyday living expenses, taxes and an RV. The idea of being 65 years old and still paying a mortgage is ridiculous. That’s why so many elderly renters are poor; They spend $700 or $800 a month of their meager fixed income to pay the rent every month while the elderly homeowners who bought starter homes and lived their forever no longer pay rent.
Which is why I’m not against buying, I’m just against buying at a price that makes it nearly impossible or at least extremely difficult to fully repay over the course of the next 30 years. Which includes most bubble pricing.
“86 of the 133 units had at least one closing in the past 11 years.”
“11 yr total = 160”
So, that’s an *average* of about 9 years (minimum), right? With the *median* apparently (but not certainly) a fair amount shorter–but still not as short as 3 years.
Now, maybe the owners only stayed for 2-3 years and have been renting them out since then w/o selling.
Wish there were some interior pictures of this place… and no windows in bedrooms is lame, although not the worst thing in the world.
Can someone kindly post the financing used & what banks? I am confident they didnt put 20% down & this smells like a WaMu special.
Mortgagee: MERS
Doc No.: 0613840222
Date exec: 04/28/2006
Date rec: 05/18/2006
Document: MORTGAGE
Amount: $499,000.00
That would be US Bank for the full $499K, Bob. Lis pendens filed 11/17/08 and foreclosure sale 11/9/09.
“That would be US Bank for the full $499K, Bob. Lis pendens filed 11/17/08 and foreclosure sale 11/9/09.”
Well at least they didn’t do something stupid, like loan out half a million dollars with no money down. . .
Bwahaha USBank of TARP recipient fame. Russ do you think this would`ve went into foreclosure if they had to come up with 100k earnest money? Do you see how low & no down loans wreak havoc on valuations? Infinite leverage to speculate backstopped by US tax$
Bob, again zero down by itself is not that bad. The problem was zero down in combination with weak underwriting around income, credit, and assets. We have no way of knowing why the owner went into foreclosure but zero down by itself does not cause a foreclosure.
As a lender, it wouldn’t really bother me if they were eliminated, but when done properly, I assure you that the loans perform.
The bulk of foreclosures are investment properties/speculators and then driven by curtailment of income due to divorce and medical. Of course, the problem now is that the market is decimated, people are strategically defaulting. We all are paying for shoddy underwriting (much deeper than zero down), speculation, and fraud.
“Gary Lucido on January 11th, 2010 at 10:03 am
You know, I wonder if the whole open floor plan thing is going to become passe. I hadn’t originally seen Tom’s comments above but they echo my own experience.”
My current place is 100+ years old and has (roughly) the original layout. Kitchen and bath sperate and in the back, a real dining room with room for 6+, and a living room where I don’t have to cram furniture. And windows in every room, even the bath.
If my wife is cooking in the back I don’t hear or smell it in the lving room. If I’m watching TV in the LV, she doesn’t hear it in the bedroom. ‘Open concept’ is just a euthemism for too small to have real defined rooms.
Zero down is bad because it puts the bank underwater on its collateral from day the mortgage is signed.
Russ,
“Bob, again zero down by itself is not that bad.”
I agree that zero down is not necessarily the cause. However, zero down allowed people who shouldn’t have to make speculative ‘investments’ that they should not have. The whole point of the down payment is for the ‘investor’ to have some ‘skin in the game’. A downpayment protects the lender from the initial depreciation, give the owner more of an incentive not to walk away upon an initial depreciation. Also, requiring a DP makes it more likely that the owners have the financial skills to save significant funds.
I don’t believe that we need to back to 20% down on all loans, but zero down, as demonstrated, allows too many ‘unqualified’ individuals to purchase. I’d like to see 5% minimum on FHA (+ higher CC scores), and 10% on the regular market. And no piggybacking a 2nd to get to 10%. And if its not a primary residence, then nothing below 20%/25%. Higher risk requires higher costs/requirements.
Again, the zero down didn’t cause all foreclosure. But it created a situation where it was more likely. And a situation where if a major disaster happened to the owner, they had less incentive and less ability (-I am assuming that if they could save a DP then they also saved for an emergency fund) to keep the property.
If 20% down had always been required this 250k McCrapbox would`ve never traded hands for 500k. The only reason some argue for less down is they know what affect that would have on lofty valuations.
I am a fan of the combined kitchen/LR/DR. Separate small dining rooms are a waste of space. It’s cool to cook in the kitchen and see the TV. Why waste sf on hallways? People always congregate around the kitchen anyway, so why have it blocked off? have it separated from the family room? The open plan is preferable. In houses, the living rooms are rarely even used.
“My current place is 100+ years old and has (roughly) the original layout. Kitchen and bath sperate and in the back, a real dining room with room for 6+, and a living room where I don’t have to cram furniture. And windows in every room, even the bath.
If my wife is cooking in the back I don’t hear or smell it in the lving room. If I’m watching TV in the LV, she doesn’t hear it in the bedroom. ‘Open concept’ is just a euthemism for too small to have real defined rooms.”
“If my wife is cooking”…
I’m a happy camper
Bob, banks have been doing low down payment mortgages for a long time – both FHA and conventional. The difference is that in the past home ownership was something that was undertaken by people who were 1) much more stable and 2) all the other u/w guidelines I mentioned were still scrutinized more thoroughly.
The run up in pricing was driven by a slew of other factors beyond just low down payments – lack of inventory, speculation, fraud, demographic shifts, homeownership promoted by government, etc. If it were solely driven by down payments, the bubble would have started decades ago when lower down payments were first allowed.
Low down payments were fine when there were other compensating factors.
to each there own…i guess that why its a preference.
IMHO the open concept became prevelant b/c developers were trying to cram as many units in a buildings as they could. Suddenly you had 2bed/2baths crammed into 900ft2. With the LV/DIN/KIT measuring a ridiculous 16′ x 20′ and the 2nd bed 9’x8′. So on paper you had a 2 bed/ 2 bath which seems large. But in reality you have a crampt space. Now if you have a 1300 ft2 2bed/2bath, that’s liveable, no matter if its open concept or not.
So, I’ll clear up my opinion. I’m against open concept if its only done to cram a 2 bedroom unit into a tiny footprint that whould have been reserved for 1 bedrooms 20 years ago. And that 12x 16′ is not a LV/DIN combo, its a big living room with a table shoved in the corner.
Russ,
whould you agree then that we need to get rid of zero down, while still retaining some lower down payment programs, i.e. between 3.5%-5% FHA and 7-10% conventional. BUT, for these programs the underwritting requirements need to be stricters. I beleive that less down requires things like: higher credit scores, more reserves, longer work history, verified assets. Also, for less that 20%, no stated/no doc loan. And for non-owner occupied, even stricter standards in all aspects. Actually, I’d prefer no stated/no doc loans at all. Which I’m not sure if those are even available anyway.
Interested in your opinion as a mortgage professional.
If anyone paid attention of any of my previous posts past and future, you know i dont like the open junk.
there is know way i would be able to cook my “it tastes so good but smells so bad” sopa de bacalao and not have a wall and hallway separating my guest from the kitchen.
or the best have my guests watching TV in the same room with that smell or watch me as i bone a chicken or something.
“watch me as i bone a chicken”
Take away the de and we’re left with a horrifying mental image. Thanks, Groove.
Tom:
I don’t think it is too much to ask that someone put 3.5-10% down depending on the situation. Odds are if you can’t come up with 3.5% – 5% down plus closing costs, you aren’t qualified to own anyway.
I agree regarding the underwriting. Underwriting in the mortgage business is essentially mindless which is driven by securitization. There really isn’t underwriting anymore, but more processing and coloring between the lines approach. The ability of u/w to think and make common sense decisions in the context of the entire file has been removed which is why some millionaires can’t get a mortgage today but Joe Sixpack working the express line at Jewel might qualify for the lowest rates.
Stated income served a purpose, but like the zero down stuff, the market removed all common sense and started doing stated for “wage earners or non-self employed folks” and not just self employed. Stated with no money down. Stated with shitty credit. Stated used to be for self employed borrowers with SUBSTANTIAL assets and down payments who had more complicated income streams and it turned into “liar loans”. They won’t be coming back as the state of IL made them illegal anyway.
I always suspected the Groove had a proclivity for zoophilia..
groove.. if you don’t, you should try a little coconut milk with the sopa de bacalao.
“Take away the de and we’re left with a horrifying mental image. Thanks, Groove.”
“I always suspected the Groove had a proclivity for zoophilia”
Proof that bad grammar is entertaining 🙂
BTW; that chicken had an ID that said it was 19 officer.
“groove.. if you don’t, you should try a little coconut milk with the sopa de bacalao”
Ze, your back 🙂
I have tried many different variations (i cook it twice a year) I will try the coconut milk again. The best variation is with vanilla and a snip of brown sugar, it sounds strange but in the end its ummmm good but stinks up the place.