Selling a 3-Bedroom Vintage Bungalow at 4054 N. Lawler in Portage Park
This 3-bedroom vintage brick bungalow at 4054 N. Lawler in Portage Park has been on the market since March 2011.
It was built in 1921 on a 40×125 corner lot.
At 1707 square feet, all 3 bedrooms are on the main level.
It also has a large 28×14 attic space.
The house has some of its vintage features including french doors in the living room, built-in bookcases and natural woodwork around the windows and the doorframes.
However it doesn’t have central air and the listing says it has “some” newer windows.
The kitchen also does not have granite counter tops or stainless steel appliances- instead it has regular counter tops and white appliances.
The house is listed $16,000 under the 2006 purchase price.
Does this house fall into the category of being an “in-between property”?
Meaning- it is not the super cheap foreclosure/short sale nor is it the rehabbed flip with everything shiny and new.
Can it compete in this market?
Janet Robertson at Century 21 McMullen has the listing. See the pictures here.
You can also see the Youtube video here.
4054 N. Lawler: 3 bedrooms, 1.5 baths, 1707 square feet, 2 car garage
- Prior sale before 1988
- Sold in June 2006 for $380,000
- Originally listed in March 2011 for $374,900
- Reduced numerous times
- Currently listed at $364,000
- Taxes of $4253
- No central air- window units only
- Bedroom #1: 14×11 (main level)
- Bedroom #2: 14×11 (main level)
- Bedroom #3: 12×9 (main level)
- Attic: 28×14
I can’t see this selling for over $300K given the amount of updating needed.
“Sold in June 2006 for $380,000”
Bwahahaha! Owner: you bought it and you’re going to live in it. For a long time!
Agree with JPS. Maybe even less money. Cute old house with decent bones, but Portage Park is an inconvenient, out-of-the-way neighborhood with little access to transit or good retail, and this house needs substantial work.
On the good side, PP is a very safe, quiet neighborhood with ample parking, and not far from the Kennedy.
If you dormered the attic and added a bath up there to create a master suite, would it be worth it? There’s no big backyard like the listing says. I’m not so sure on the corner lot in Portage Park – did anyone hear about the fatal car accident on that corner lot in that neighborhood on Sunday? They interviewed the owner of the house on that corner and she said there were tons of accidents there over the years.
Overall, this place looks like some of my earlier rentals in college. $250K at most.
“…and this house needs substantial work.”
I can’t believe you would say this about a style of house you frequently cheerlead here. There has been no ‘modernization’ of any part of the place. So this, based on your past posts, would be an idea home to purchase for a long term personal residence.
Simply looking at the pictures, there doesn’t seem to be ‘substantial work’ needed. Updating and some paint perhaps, (plus finishing the replacement of the windows…not an immediate requirement) substantial work to move in, NO.
Homes of this type were very well constructed…very solid as a matter of fact. Being all brick, I am sure it is in great shape. AC could be added easily and yes, the attic could easily be improved upon to make it a very nice master suite.
“Bwahahaha! Owner: you bought it and you’re going to live in it. For a long time!”
Why is this funny? Why do you take such pleasure in the misfortune of underwater owners?
HD –
I was looking at listings in Portage Park the other day and I thought of you. Are you looking in Portage Park or just Old Irving? There are plenty of SFHs in Portage Park under 200K. Occasionally one will even pop up under 100K which needs work.
I was thinking you should stop looking at the 400K properties and focus on the 250K and under range.
What do you think?
Here are some examples of bargains. They go under contract quickly:
A brick 4/3 for 80K and under contract:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5751-W-Roscoe-St-60634/home/13463927
A brick 2/1 for 99K and under contract:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5240-W-Cuyler-Ave-60641/home/13477824
A brick 3/1 with new roof and furnace and large yard for 147K and under contract:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5218-W-Roscoe-St-60641/home/13461624
The last laugh will be FROM the person who buys this property. Honestly, in 5-10 years, you will see. It is going to be harder and harder for renters to save the required downpayment (as rents are set to increase dramatically). In 5 years, renters will be scrambling but the new owners of this house will be sitting pretty.
“AC could be added easily and yes, the attic could easily be improved upon to make it a very nice master suite.”
central air can easily be added at a cheap cost, IF you keep the attic as office or other simple room. you will loose space up there for the ducts and will dry wall them off of visual preference.
adding a master is a bit pricey and way not worth the cost for the hood. (over-improving)
it most likely has been plumbed up into the attic as most house of this style and era were, they thought ahead back then. so a master with a master bath is feasible, but like a said the cost is not worth it for the hood.
this is not my cup of tea for portage area, i like the north area of the park. but its walking distance to a great argentine steak house and to roma’s beef
HD, I posted links to some examples but my comment is awaiting moderation.
Here are the properties without the links. You can look them up on Redfin –
A brick 4/3 for 80K and under contract:
5751 W Roscoe
A brick 2/1 for 99K and under contract:
5240 W Cuyler
A brick 3/1 with new roof and furnace and large yard for 147K and under contract:
5218 W Roscoe
I also saw plenty of 2/2 SFHs under 200K. Just lower your price ceiling and broaden your search area.
“…you will loose space up there for the ducts and will dry wall them off of visual preference.”
Not neccessarily. You could go the ducts with drawers/desk space/shelving above route. You might lose some space but with the walls as they are, the space lost would not make that much of a difference. I have done many units of this type and all came out rather well, esp since houses of this era did not have that much original storage space built in.
As far as doing a full bath up here, yes it would be a somewhat costly project…overimproving project? NOt if the buyers were looking for a long term private residence….which these days is becoming more the norm.
I have accepted a number of projects over the past year that are of this type. Solid constructed, older homes that are being customized/modernized by families who plan on living in them for decades to come. A few are even planning on passing the home down to their children.
If anything good has come from the housing disaster it is this…people making long term plans for their living arrangements instead of buying cheap, doing minimal upgrades and selling for a larger than deserved profit two – three years later.
I just have to ask this of you Groovy….how much do you weigh?
It seems your travels around the city are all food motivated. Either you or your wife or budding gourmands or you eat as a hobby!
About 4054 N Lawler, I love this house. Unless it needs mechanical work it looks like it’s in move-in condition to me. The only drawback for me is that it looks like it has electric heat which is expensive. I’d prefer radiators. I do think the house is priced too high for the market though. If the owners can just hang on to it I think it would be better than selling now.
“Bwahahaha! Owner: you bought it and you’re going to live in it. For a long time!”
“Why is this funny? Why do you take such pleasure in the misfortune of underwater owners?”
Easy… misery loves company.
milkster: I prefer to stay in old irving, the villa, independence park, forest glen, edgebrook, etc those types of leafy areas with wider lots near the metra or the el (and the highway!)
I looked at all three of thoese properties and ALL THREE are under contract already. Those cheap under $200k properties go QUICK to rehabbers who fix them up and sell them for over $300,000 in a matter of months. It’s difficult, extremely difficult, to get one of those properties until $200k.
That being said, lately I’ve had my eye of 5015 W balmoral. http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5015-W-Balmoral-Ave-60630/home/13499327
estate sale, needs work, way over-priced, a ‘tween’ house that’s in between ‘new’ and ‘crapshack’ so it sits and sells. I want to offer $200,000 and put $150,000 into it (But keep the bathroom!)
4054: This is a nice house, it seems over priced, but given the terrible state of the market, and the little inventory available, (i read natioanlly its down over 13% yoy), people set timelines to buy and buy what’s available, and this is one of those homes that’s available for roughly $2000 a month with a 20% down payment.
I’ve been shocked and jaded, too many times i’m like “That’ll never sell at that price” And three days later it goes under contract and sells with 10% of list. So I try not to make predictions anymore.
westloop: could you check out that 5015 w balmoral link and tell me what $150,000 could do? finish attic as a master suite, add a 3/4rds bath, new kitchen, tile, etc. how would I add ac? it seems to have gfa already so the ductwork is there, how hard is it to add ac?
Actually Milkster its more along the lines of if other people are losing big & I’m just treading water I’m better off in comparison.
“did anyone hear about the fatal car accident on that corner lot in that neighborhood on Sunday? They interviewed the owner of the house on that corner and she said there were tons of accidents there over the years. ”
That accident occurred 2-3 miles NW of here, in Jefferson Park. However, Even if that block were technically Portage, the cribarrati are once again guilty of taking an event that occcurred in one corner of a hood and attributing it to the whole neighborhood.
In March a woman was killed at the Fullerton El station during an iPhone robbery — i’m sure no one is saying “gosh, Lincoln Park is crime ridden and dangerous.”
Actually Icarus there is a guy who posts here who says exactly that: “Lincoln Park is crime ridden & dangerous”.
I do think the price is a bit high for the market even if this is in “olde Portage Park” as the listing says.
This is down the street from that other Lawler home that has the custom brazilian cabinet kitchen. I wonder if they are pricing based on that?
I also agree with Milkster that it is move in ready and you can do your reno over time…since you will be here for a while. They are making ducts wider these days so they take less vertical space, so I think you can still have a decent attic addition.
“In March a woman was killed at the Fullerton El station during an iPhone robbery — i’m sure no one is saying “gosh, Lincoln Park is crime ridden and dangerous.””
What are you talking about, Icarus? North Avenue beach has been takenover by thugs, all of LP and LV are running wild with muggers and mob action dominates in Streeter and River North. It like you just skip over all of the alarmis… fair and balanced reporting of the current crime problem in Chicago.
“Not neccessarily. You could go the ducts with drawers/desk space/shelving above route. You might lose some space but with the walls as they are, the space lost would not make that much of a difference”
good call, building cabinets/drawers up to where the roof pitches is a perfect idea. which goes with my plan of just making it an office up there.
“As far as doing a full bath up here, yes it would be a somewhat costly project…overimproving project? NOt if the buyers were looking for a long term private residence….which these days is becoming more the norm.”
true but as you know if you go full master bedroom and bath you will have to dormer one side well really both sides for aesthetic balance. while not the most expensive part of the puzzle, it adds more to the cost of a 360k house in a hood that has homes selling for 150k-250k.
yes like you said a long term owner wouldnt need to worry too much about that, but for me you have 3 decent sized bedrooms now no need to go up and actually cheaper to go down in the future if need be.
HD –
I would LOVE it if you went for it and offered 200K on a home listed at 335K! However, I don’t know if 5015 W Balmoral is the right house for you. It looks like a lovely location, but knowing you, you would be happier with 3 things this house does not have:
– A short walk to the el as opposed to Metra
– Brick as opposed to frame
– 2 baths
But keep looking and then go for it! Set your price ceiling and do not go higher.
““did anyone hear about the fatal car accident on that corner lot in that neighborhood on Sunday? They interviewed the owner of the house on that corner and she said there were tons of accidents there over the years. ”
That accident occurred 2-3 miles NW of here, in Jefferson Park. However, Even if that block were technically Portage, the cribarrati are once again guilty of taking an event that occcurred in one corner of a hood and attributing it to the whole neighborhood.”
we take that street to go visit out friends in jeff park. the idiots that pull out from sunnyside are uber asshats. its a f’d up intersection because its one block either way from a stop light so putting in a stop sign is a traffic nightmare.
there need to be better testing and screening to get a drivers licenses.
HD–
Seriously, like Milkster sez, just start writing offers at what you think a house you might really consider is worth. Get the form contract, fill in all the info that won’t change, make a hundred copies and start faxing in offers. If nothing else, you’ll end up with a few good stories about snotty realtor responses to your “impossibly low ball” offers.
What’s the worst they can do? Say no? That’s already the answer if you don’t ask!
“people set timelines to buy and buy what’s available, and this is one of those homes that’s available for roughly $2000 a month with a 20% down payment”
I’m seeing this too. If someone can own for the same or less than renting, they will choose to own. I’m seeing it more and more in the Red Zone neighborhoods. The yuppies aren’t buying/gentrifying in those areas. It’s the neighborhood locals. They are the ones buying the developer rehabs in western Humboldt Park. This is a good sign. The more resident owners there are, the greater the chance for those areas to improve.
“It looks like a lovely location, but knowing you, you would be happier with 3 things this house does not have:
– A short walk to the el as opposed to Metra
– Brick as opposed to frame
– 2 baths”
I don’t think he minds metra that much (better class of rider) if there’s reasonable highway access as well (although is true it’s not right on top of an off ramp). He’s looked at plenty of frame houses in OIP. And his plan is to put in a second bath and more.
This house he also gets a potentially viable neighborhood elem and (I think) close access to forest preserves paths.
“What’s the worst they can do? Say no? That’s already the answer if you don’t ask!”
Listen to Anon! “Don’t ask, don’t get.”
Break a leg, HD!
“What’s the worst they can do? Say no? That’s already the answer if you don’t ask!”
He (and his realtor) will get the big black ball from the cartel. But then he can file an antitrust suit for treble damages. But then he’ll owe the realtors money b/c they’ll show he’s been better off renting.
“Seriously, like Milkster sez, just start writing offers at what you think a house you might really consider is worth. Get the form contract, fill in all the info that won’t change, make a hundred copies and start faxing in offers. If nothing else, you’ll end up with a few good stories about snotty realtor responses to your “impossibly low ball” offers.”
I’m totally doing that next summer, though not 100s really just one or two.
I don’t know about ‘hundreds’ of offers HD – just the estate sales where the owner is deceased, the children live out of state; and the house needs a lot of work. I doubt there have been any offers.
I’d add a porch on front to give it teh traditional four square look; and then fix the interior, etc. Only 3 homes in the last 24 months have sold over $400,000; so this house has to be cheap in order to have it make sense. It makes no sense to buy this house for $300,000 (10% off list) and then put $150,000 to make it one of the most expensive homes in the neighborhood. $200 is the magic number for that home.
There’s a handful of homes like this, here and there, usualy with an old school 50 yo + realtor who still prices homes like it’s 2006. And they wonder why they can’t sell anything and they wonder why the market has changed.
I have a realtor already, they haven’t written any offers yet and is on standby. This realtor will do whatever I want, give tne longe standing firm connection’s. he’s been the realtor for most every transaction of every attorney in this firm for the year 15 years.
Icarus and HD,
I wrote a TON of offers before I was finally able to close on something. One or two ain’t gonna do it. I hate to break it to you. Fortunately I have a patient and persistent agent:
Lindsey Richardson
Solfire Realty
773-404-1057
lindsey@solfirerealty.com
She said once that she gets a rush when she’s able to get a property for her clients at a very low price.
If you have the TIME and willpower not to FALL IN LOVE, then lowball away.
its not a fun route and gets very frustrating,and may not work in the end.
Also, if your looking at a small area word gets out and they see you coming.
oddly you would think lowball an estate sale would be the easiest, i have not found that to be true at all.
“Seriously, like Milkster sez, just start writing offers at what you think a house you might really consider is worth. Get the form contract, fill in all the info that won’t change, make a hundred copies and start faxing in offers. If nothing else, you’ll end up with a few good stories about snotty realtor responses to your “impossibly low ball” offers.”
Lowballing is not a bad idea in this market at all. You will need an agent that is on board, and be willing to deal with the ramifications: ie an as-is home with issues. Google “low ball offer” and you will find tons of info. If you keep track of sold data in your areas and what the original list is then you will find a lot of surprises. Its funny, some properties never hit my radar until after they have sold. Someone got a smokin deal because they offered well below ask and lucked out.
In fact both partners I answer to bought estate sales at E0% off list that were accepted, no counter, and the rnovated. They also used this same realtor.
Re: subject property–better bungalows for similar price to be had in Oak Park. I agree with Dave M on this one, i.e., that anyone paying over $250k for this is paying too much.
HD, a property I really liked in your area was listed originally at $399k. It closed at $281k. It had major landscaping issues, teardown garage, kitchens/baths. I’m not sure it would pass for your $150k reno, but something like this will pop up again at a lower sale price, hang in there you are in the drivers seat.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4054-N-Kilbourn-Ave-60641/home/13481456
“If you have the TIME and willpower not to FALL IN LOVE, then lowball away”
The Wolfman gave me some really good advice. He said whether it’s stocks or real estate, never let your emotions take over in financial decisions.
Even though emotion is always tangled up when you think of your home, you have to divorce yourself from it and think from a money and business standpoint. Run the numbers.
“Even though emotion is always tangled up when you think of your home, you have to divorce yourself from it and think from a money and business standpoint. Run the numbers.”
yeah works on paper until you walk in and see built-ins original woodwork and CLOSET SPACE.
“oddly you would think lowball an estate sale would be the easiest, i have not found that to be true at all.”
Well, in my case with the Oak Park house I bought, it worked. We sold for nearly 10% more 9 months later, so looking back I know I got a reasonable deal. Now, if the economy tanks again, I’ll be glad I got out when I did. Anyway, you can’t just go around lowballing everyone–most sellers won’t take you seriously. You need to understand the seller’s motivation or you’re just wasting your time. If you do your due diligence before hand you’ll save time and effort. Even the banks won’t take “lowballs” seriously until they’ve sat with the property for 6 mos to a year. I “lowball” bid on an REO in Hyde Park and in Oak Park and both were rejected or the counteroffers were a joke and, guess what, they both ultimately sold many months later within $5k of my offers.
The accident at Austin and Sunnyside was a DUI, not indicative for whole area. And, grew up on corner lot in Portage, no wrecks as bad as this one. To my parents and their generation, a corner lot in city is a ‘palace’.
4054 kilbourn: I know that property. That is one that makes me believe the botom is in. There are no deals, other ppl will always overpay, aand low volume is the new normal.
If there is one thing everyone here should know about me, its that I’ve done my homework. And, as you all know, im not writing any lowball offers until the wife says” pull the trigger.”
“4054 kilbourn: I know that property. That is one that makes me believe the botom is in. There are no deals, other ppl will always overpay, aand low volume is the new normal.”
I can’t argue. It is however on a double lot. My personal opinion for value of a 25×125 lot in that area would be $125k. The brick structure on that property is solid and will last another 100 years. If I were to convert this to a SFH I would gut it, none of the built ins or original woodwork really thrilled me. If I remember a lot of it was pine anyway.
Chris M,
your on the “inside” so you know the innerworkings. the estates sales for me are the most unrealistic. and all of them needed a big overhaul all needed electric done and to code.
btw none of them have sold.
as for the low ball route now i did miss out on home i loved, i still am kind of kicking myself to this day. I talked about it before here it was facing edgebrook golf course and had no street in front of it. needed work done but was move in ready.
“we take that street to go visit out friends in jeff park. the idiots that pull out from sunnyside are uber asshats. its a f’d up intersection because its one block either way from a stop light so putting in a stop sign is a traffic nightmare.”
Didnt stop them from putting a four-way stop sign at Montrose and Greenview.
To add, Sunnyside is a side street, but is very wide between Milwaukee and Narraganset, since there used to be train tracks in the middle. So, drivers think, “I can go over 40 mph” and run through stop signs. There should be traffic lights where S-Side meets N-S arterials, as it does at Milwaukee.
But anyway, back to the house for sale. To me, it’s out of reach for most city workers, but if HD is interested, maybe will sell to ‘Green Zoners’?
“Didnt stop them from putting a four-way stop sign at Montrose and Greenview”
oh they will put one in there too after the alderman gets his phone blown up.
Tomm,
they need to revoke that light at the church and just drop a stop sign at that corner.
but all said if you drive down oak park from grand to addison you can see why its SUCKS to have too may signs and lights.
it takes one asshat to f up the rest of the world for good people.
I’m not interested in teh subject property – ie where’s the highway ramp?
hahahah
but it’s not about out of reach for city workers, it’s about howmuchamonth mixed with a shockingly low level of inventory for sale. When people want to buy, they just buy, they don’t wait for better deals. They buy what’s available; which leads to lots of overpriced homes languishing, and the small number of deals selling quickly.
“yeah works on paper until you walk in and see built-ins original woodwork and CLOSET SPACE.”
true and dark Italian cabinets are my doing.
“im not writing any lowball offers until the wife says” pull the trigger.””
wise move. next time I am marrying an American. Damn those Prada shoes throw me off ; )
Grooe77, ITA, when I grew up in city, there wasn’t a sea of stop signs. People knew how to drive! I hate stop signs on arterial streets, too.
Oak Park Ave was a great drive to get to North Ave or the Ike from my parent’s place. We lived at 5803 Byron.
“Oak Park Ave was a great drive to get to North Ave or the Ike from my parent’s place. We lived at 5803 Byron.”
since i was little they always had the stop sign at bell park, i am in the late 30’s so its been a while. its just as of the last 7 years the stop sign craze f’d up the hood.
Btw a guy that i dj’d with lived a few houses off marmora in 1991, you may know him
CC experts — what’s the ballpark for adding a master bed and bath to a bungalow (assuming dormers)? Neither builder’s special nor super high end finishes.
^^ By building out a previously unfinished attic
I use a rough estimate of 50 psf plus the bathroom. Maybe im wrong I don’t know its hard sto say.
“CC experts — what’s the ballpark for adding a master bed and bath to a bungalow (assuming dormers)? Neither builder’s special nor super high end finishes”
no expert, but i can say if you go cheap and the attic is pre-plumbed up you can get away with it for 40-50k if you only a dormer a small section on one side, skiping the sky lights and stay with a shower/bath tub combo.
now this under the assumption the attic is raw and the bungalow is radiant heat.
all said your major costs will be how pimped you go with the bathroom and ease of running pluming and HVAC.
here is a huge huge huge tip i will give you, when doing the attic to a master bedroom. pick your bed placement first then make sure that the skylights are not over or near the bed. You will thank me in the summer time the most.
also this website is useful just to get a understanding of cost when an idea hit your cranium
http://www.costhelper.com/
I’m ‘older school’ moved to PP in 1970 from North Austin when I was 9. Moved out in 80’s, don’t really know anyone there now.
Family likes to go to Giordono’s on IPark, still. However, there’s quite a few empty storefronts along IP, such as the closed Saturn dealer and former Irving Bank blg at 5900 W.
You see, this is why the bottom is in:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3632-N-Harding-Ave-60618/home/13457498
That villa house i talked about. under contract, listed at 375k, take 10% off, it probably sells at $340k. Numerous people told me $250k was the magic number and there’s no way it’s going at $250k, not when it’s under contract now.
THE BOTTOM IS IN FOLKS ITS HERE. THIS IS NOT JUST KNIFECATCHERS – IT”S THE HONEST TO GO BOTTOM. OVer and over again I see homes that just don’t make sense at the sales/listing prices yet they sell like hot cakes. This is how it is folks. It’s going to be slow, slow slow, and we’re going to be at the bottom for a long time probably, but this is it. there are no ‘deals’ out tehre; and desirable areas will sell for FAR above what you think. Hot damn.
This is the bottom, it’s here, it’s in, and people are willing to pay top dollar for a home that they’re willing to live in for a long time. That’s just the way it is. !!!!
Yawn.
I wonder how much influence the fact that Fannie Mae is lowering the max amount it will lend in Chicago is driving the housing market this summer. The GSE’s own or guarantee 50% of all mortgages written and back almost 90% of them.
“I wonder how much influence the fact that Fannie Mae is lowering the max amount it will lend in Chicago is driving the housing market this summer.”
What does this mean?
I don’t understand why everyone loves bungalows so much. They always seem dark and dreary to me unless they have been completely gutted, with only the shell kept intact.
the bottom is passing you by…..sales are down, yes, but prices aren’t really falling, and people ahve to live somewhere. 2006 prices are gone but 2011 prices are baked into the cake.
“#G on August 11th, 2011 at 11:14 am
Yawn.”
“I’m ‘older school’ moved to PP in 1970 from North Austin when I was 9. Moved out in 80’s, don’t really know anyone there now.
Family likes to go to Giordono’s on IPark, still. However, there’s quite a few empty storefronts along IP, such as the closed Saturn dealer and former Irving Bank blg at 5900 W.”
yeah lynch sold off each piece separate, saturn wasnt a lynch anyway.
i still go to that giordano’s. and the PATIO REOPENED!!!!!!! it still rocks and for he price can be beat.
not as many empty store fronts thats more from ausitn to pascals. a few new welcome additons, Martini bar is quite nice and prices are great. Rudy’s is still going strong.
but dear gosh i swear there are more barber shops down that stretch than anywhere else in chicago. and not the old baber shops the new ones with the word “fade” somewhere in the name.
The Portage restaurant opened recently and is absolutely great and well needed. there is a taco joint right by it with lines out the door everyday.
a great produce place opend up a while back behind Addison steak house (which closed). Porretta’s is still going strong we ate there a month ago and still feels like home.
Graduated from St Pascals in ’75. I never would have imagined the Patio outlasting the Will Rogers or Gateway theaters, back in the day.
Rudy’s bike shop was where ‘cool kids’ got new Schwinn Sting Rays, we got bikes from Sears or garage sales. [now I understand my parents saving $]
Across from Portage theater on Milwaukee are more empty stores, now that I think about it.
“Across from Portage theater on Milwaukee are more empty stores, now that I think about it.”
alderman allen with collaborated to get six corners a revival, city news finally moved into a new space (right next door) so the upgrades can continue. the six corner renewal is about 5 years from completion and storefronts on Milwaukee hopefully will be filling up soon. We went to six corners new festvail this year and there are more new stores now, the fest was a bit skimp but for the first year not bad.
BTW do you remember the Steer restaurant?
HD you have a valid point, but there is a negative price slope. the reduction might be happening slower than you desire but I see prices decline. I am sure of it at least for 2/2 GZ condos. Maybe the specific sector you like is holding out better, but the outlook for economy is so grim, i’d say wait a bit and good things happen to those who wait.
Dont remember it, but did see ‘Star Wars’ at Portage when it was in third run! I used to walk to City News to get car magazines or to Woolworth to get plastic car models.
And Martini Club has given stodgy Belmont-Central some hipness, I think.
Anyway, wonder how much this house will sell?
“Maybe the specific sector you like is holding out better, but the outlook for economy is so grim, i’d say wait a bit and good things happen to those who wait.”
Depending on who you talk to. S&P is a joke. Why anyone would care what that rating agency says is beyone me.
Warren Buffet seems to thinks things are ok. I trust him much more
“the bottom is passing you by”
Blah blah blah. Yawn.
“S&P is a joke.”
Just a strategy for free publicity, while their owners (McGraw Hill) are being forced to spin off non-publishing related assets byntheir Hedge Fund overlords.
Ok, maybe not, but still fun!
“Warren Buffet seems to thinks things are ok. I trust him much more”
I trust him to say things that benefit bershire’s shareholders
“Just a strategy for free publicity, while their owners (McGraw Hill) are being forced to spin off non-publishing related assets byntheir Hedge Fund overlords.
Ok, maybe not, but still fun!”
Ha!
“Warren Buffet seems to thinks things are ok. I trust him much more”
I thought he was a good indicator in the health of markets overall until he announced a huge purchase of GE shares in Oct 2008, only to watch them plummet even more…
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/01/news/companies/buffett_ge/index.htm
“And Martini Club has given stodgy Belmont-Central some hipness, I think.”
it sure has…it forced Jedynkas to update itself from 80s eurotrash bar to 2010 eurotrash bar. 😀
“BTW do you remember the Steer restaurant?”
I think Tomm and Groove are my new BFFs
“it sure has…it forced Jedynkas to update itself from 80s eurotrash bar to 2010 eurotrash bar.”
Damn, I need to go to Jedynkas again! Loved the 80s eurotrash, 2010 might be even better!
“it sure has…it forced Jedynkas to update itself from 80s eurotrash bar to 2010 eurotrash bar.”
“Damn, I need to go to Jedynkas again! Loved the 80s eurotrash, 2010 might be even better!”
i thought the new it place was Krocodile?
I remember Jedynkas used to be the 123 Disco during that era. Never went in, was still in HS.
LOL! The Wishbone on Lincoln was a Mr. Steer when I was a kid, they don’t open places like that in Chicago any more, it was sorta a bargain Red Lobster (minus the lobster) with the really sketchy salad bar running down the middle.
“BTW do you remember the Steer restaurant?”
My family used to go to Gale St. Inn with relatives, they used to have pizza for kids.
HD, fess up. You bought 3632 N Harding didn’t ya
in the early 2000s Warren Buffett sold short many ($40 billion notional?) puts on the S&P 500, which during the 08-09 collapse obviously became huge losers/liabilities. At the height of the panic, when his shorts stood a good chance of being exercised, Buffett wrote an oped for the NYT (10-16-08) advising his fellow Americans to buy stocks:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/opinion/17buffett.html
Two years later, after the Fed had flooded the short-term funding markets with $1.5 trillion of cash, and Congress had passed the $700 billion TARP program, and enacted other federal bailout packages, Warren Buffett published a second NYT oped — this one expressing his thanks to the federal government:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/17/opinion/17buffett.html
iirc Berkshire-Hathaway, like AIG before its collapse, does not post collateral on their derivatives trades. After the stock market recovered Buffett only very reluctantly marked down the value of his short position, as critics rightfully contended that long-term volatility had increased, diminishing his position’s value.
More recently in his testimony to the FCIC commission, Buffett argued that firms like his should not have to post collateral against their derivatives-trade book, since he put the trades on before the Dodd-Frank rules were written.
My only point is: Buffett’s a great trader but what’s good for him aint necessarily good for the rest of us. The upside is his, the downside is ours.
“HD, fess up. You bought 3632 N Harding didn’t ya”
It is a cute house.
IIRC, 3632 N. Harding is the house HD said was loaded with problems such as mold in the basement.
Thanks, Groove! That website is pretty fun, too. 🙂
Buffet is a POS. He puts on this persona of some kind old humble man but he is anything but. He is as ruthless a trader as they come and if he is ever talking one should NOT assume his views reflect some benevolence towards broader society. One should definitely assume he is talking his book.
“the bottom is passing you by…”
Buy now or listen to this idiot called homedelete babble on incessantly forever??
In light of the low inventory and continued rise in prices, vr decidd to push forward my plans, after consulting with my wife, for at least 18 months. I will revisit the market then. Gawd I hope I haven’t been priced out and I hope there arw still decent properties for sale. This is the most dysfunctioanl market I’ve seen in the 10 years I’ve been folloing real estate. But now I need a breakm its burning me out. Time to follow the bears for a while, re is getting boring.
“continued rise in prices”
What rise in prices?
All I see is huge losses on most sales (not ALL, but most.) There are some instances where the seller has gotten lucky because there is no inventory in that neighborhood and someone has decided they MUST have the 3-bedroom townhouse for under $450k in Lakeview, for instance. How many of those are there? 3 or 4? Tops? So they buy them for well over the 2005 purchase price.
But for every one of those are 10 condos selling for 20% to 30% below the 2005 price in the same neighborhood.
Prices are up from the lows of last year and are going up, but unfortunately, does not help the 2006 buyer.
Really?
The data has not shown that the prices are “up” from last year. Just the opposite. The data is showing that they continue to fall.
HD, I understand your frustration that you’re trying to get a move-in-able home for around $400k in one of the decent Chicago neighborhoods. But there IS a lot of competition for those homes and plenty of people who are willing to spend 30%- 40% or more of their take home pay to buy it (with little money down- I might add.)
You’re frustrated because you’re up against people who live on the edge with their finances (which you refuse to do.) It continues to amaze me that people would rather buy the $600k house and live paycheck to paycheck then buy the $450k house. But they do.
Stay true to your convictions HD. The house will be there.
“HD, I understand your frustration that you’re trying to get a move-in-able home for around $400k in one of the decent Chicago neighborhoods.”
I find it hilarious him trying to not only convince himself but also others that the bottom is in and things are looking up and up from here. LOL. He is playing right into Ben Bernanke’s plan of being one of the knifecatchers of this great depression via timing of life events.
Benny boy wants you to overpay HD because he knew you’d be settling down and having a youngin’. You are going to be a bagholder and there appears there is no avoiding that.
But some aging boomer will surely thank you for paying 4x what they did for their house. Someone has to pay for their profligate lifestyle and that someone is going to be you.
This is still early in the correction: HAMP hasn’t expired yet, the FHA is still originating crap loans and will need a bailout and theres at least another year of heavy recasts of option-ARMs.
The world won’t change because you will it–you’re starting to sound like Steve Heitman or clio lately. And for that you are an asshat.
Sabrina, my question for you is what happens in the long term to to the homes priced above $500? The competition is great below 500, not so much above 500. Like I said, after much discussion; rumination and endless repeative talks wth my wife, we’ve decided to wait another 18-24 to buy. We have 800 credit scores, income and a down payment, but when crap shacks in need of 100k or more in wrok to make it livable in 2011 still sell for around 400k, either my expectations are way off and completely wtong, or the market is completely dysfunctional. Either way, it doesn’t matter, it is iirrelevant for me, im moving back to the sidelines. Maybe the old HD may return after a very. Bitter but short home searching experience.
Bob, you have been an ass clown all along. At least I’ve been preapproved, and actively visited open houses and want to better my famiy’s living situation and keep myself. In a position to buy. Old hd may return from this bitter home searching experience. It shouldn’t be so shitty, of overpriced homes, and crapshacks with these ridiculous bids, and in need of so much work, and realtors encouraging sellers to hold firm on prices and reduce very little, and competiton from fha buyers with 5 or 10pc down how make god only knows what for an income, to homin shit conditioon with 8k in taxes and a kitchen from 1970 for sale for 2000 a month for the next 30 years. What a joke. Fuck real estate. These realtors and brokers losing their pants financilly deserve it.
Bob, I wish you a great life and hope you’ll never get stressed out, but man you lack mirror neurons. HD is working hard, is perhaps sleepless having a young child, and is trying to save and get his family a good life. It is not an easy thing to do and he has more sense than most people who just borrow and borrow and put their family in bad situation. Why cannot you be a bit sympathetic. You know I believe in karma not in some super natural way, but ones actions create reactions. With your attitude you’ll only find yourself some cruel women or a masochistic one who is attracted to a mean person. Either way, you’ll be unhappy. You are smart and have some good sense, try adding some compassion to the mix and you’ll be a much happier person.
And I was so damn commited to buy now too. I was like ‘yeag! I can move on in life, the housing bubble s is over!” And the last night I get a call from a distant relative” you are the family lawyer, we want to walk away from our upside down house:” well not in those words but that’s what they meant. It has been a big let down emotionally to think that I was all prepare to take the plunge but 400k in the areas I want to live really buys nothing worth living in, and yet most every home over 500k languishes on the market, and the 400k hoomes sell nearly Immediatelyy anyway. IIt is a cruel joke.
“or the market is completely dysfunctional”
Ding. Ding. Ding. Nobody involved in the game is motivated to move the distressed process along. In fact the government has made it very easy to hang out for a few years.
Far more people are not staying current on their mortgages than you see foreclosures or short sales on the MLS. Like a factor of 10:1 I’d guess.
The govt’s latest proposal is equally laughable, although provides a good benefit to society in reducing homelessness: let’s rent out the govt owned vacant foreclosures. That will stabilize the housing market! (LOL) Brilliant!
It won’t stabilize the market but why it took them this long to think of this common sense solution to reduce homelessness is beyond me.
Just because the stalemate between buyers & sellers is still a stalemate in the areas you want to live doesn’t mean the sellers are going to win.
There’s a whole lot of boomers set to downsize:
http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/internalization-toxic-loans-growing-cracks-shadow-banking-economy-baby-boomer-retirement-selling-california-real-estate/
Look at whats going on in the equities market lately–its basically screaming for govt intervention. But no more credit card for policy makers. Make sure your coaster harness is fastened securely.
No govt intervention. And big F’in deal if you can get a 3.75% 30-year mortgage. That low rate is meaningless if you expect prices to continue to fall. Signs point that they will.
No im not drunk these androind keyboards really suck for posts just like the ipad so plz excuse the typos.
HD, so far waiting has done us well. I think in a year or so you’ll find something great. In the mean time sit and enjoy the fact that you are not under water and you are in much better situation than most people. Honestly, you are like my husband very financially cautious which is a great quality in a man (like being a good worrier was in stone ages..lol). Hold tight and I am sure you and your wife will do great. I bet your little one will have sense too, not like my little stubborn one who does not take bottle and her poor sleepless mummy has to start working full time very soon…sigh
“You are smart and have some good sense, try adding some compassion to the mix and you’ll be a much happier person.You are smart and have some good sense, try adding some compassion to the mix and you’ll be a much happier person.”
miumiu it’s called tough love. He is an ant like me I don’t want to see him make a bad life mistake and simultaneously provide for a grasshopper.
If he can’t get the home he wants for a price he feels comfortable paying for right now he should wait. Rent a nice place if possible and take the savings and take the wife out to more nicer dinners, etc.
The really sad part is without all this govt intervention to keep the house of cards of lofty RE valuations afloat he’d likely be able to get what he wants at a price he can afford. But instead our terrible government has decided to spend taxpayer money to try to keep RE valuations lofty to save the banksters.
Just yesterday my folks offered to help me out with a downpayment on a place after hearing about record low interest rates, etc. I told them it’s probably a good thing I don’t have a substantial downpayment now and I won’t need their help in the near term.
I see a lot of people making a lot less coin than me struggling to stay in their nice residences. Not all of ’em are gonna make it, especially after that artificial government support is removed.
The best discussion I read on here in awhile was about the lowballer strategy. If I’m gonna own anytime soon I’m gonna do that–I would need to get a place for such a song of a price to protect against downside risk which I don’t think most of the northside of Chicago is reflecting valuation-wise.
I agree waiting is not a bad strategy now. Sorry I misunderstood your though love thing : ) BTW, what do you think about the Texas governor running for 2012? I thought you might like him.
Maybe the bottom isn’t in? I’ve been known to be wrong in the past, it is entirely plausible that I am wrong again about this????
HD, almost all the properties that I get through MLS keep reducing prices. The economy is in state of disaster. US’s credit rating might be down graded further if things don’t improve in DC. I am not sure the bottom is in. You know we bought in 2009 and though it was the bottom. Look how wrong we were.
“Sabrina, my question for you is what happens in the long term to to the homes priced above $500? The competition is great below 500, not so much above 500.”
I agree with this assessment. There are clearly more buyers under $500k. The $500k to $900k level seems nearly dead.
I just saw a 3-bedroom townhouse sell at 2024 N. Racine. It was listed in the mid-$600,000s in 2010. It just sold for $555,000 which was under both the 2005 price of $630,000 and the 2002 price of $580,000.
http://www.urbanrealestate.com/property/2024-N-Racine-Unit-S-CHICAGO-IL-60614-T4RJT5TLRCBPC.html
This is a little over the $500,000 limit- but this seller had to come WAY down to find a buyer.
There are a lot of things about the change in housing.
1. The stimulus provision that allowed those doing a short sale on their first loan to NOT have to report it as income to the IRS is going to expire at the end of 2012. Who knows if this will be extended by a Congress involved in an election year?
http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=179414,00.html
2. The Frank Dodd Risk Retention provision is in the comment stage, I believe, but could soon be part of the mortgage landscape. Banks are threatening that it will require homeowners to put 20% down.
3. FHA is going to be tightened so there will be fewer FHA loans.
4. Who knows what will happen to Freddie and Fannie.
But to me, it all means that credit is going to get tighter. Buyers will have to have real skin in the game. That means that houses priced above $500,000 will have to come down in price (heaven help us if interest rates rise and mortgages become MORE expensive.)
We have a barely breathing housing market with the lowest rates on record! I’m scared to think what it will look like when they rise.
The only people who are selling right now are those that HAVE to. Everyone else is on the sidelines- renting it out or not listing it and praying that it will be “better next year” when they go to sell. But housing doesn’t work like the stock market. The 20% declines in Lincoln Park aren’t suddenly going to turn around by next April so that the underwater seller can get out from under the property.
This was the first year that I have felt that many of the sellers finally realize that housing is NOT going to turn around quickly. Many are simply renting out the condo (if the bank will give them the second mortgage) and buying the bigger property. It means they have even MORE real estate debt but at least they can move.
Many others don’t have that luxury. So they stay put…for now.
Inventories, and new listings, are noticeably low for this of the year. When will the deluge happen? Thousands of condos in the GZ were sold in 2005 and 2006. When will they try to sell them all?
At the height of the boom years, developers were selling 6,000 to 8,000 new construction condos a year.
Last year it was 498 sales.
So, when will all those thousands of units come back on the market?
I know the condo market is different from the SFH market. But many of those condo owners want to be SFH buyers.
roberto.. The free money game is not about to stop. Real wages are not done being destroyed. There is Karma- this morning a porcupine even taught that to my duck eatin doggie. And the past two weeks is just a shakeout of the weak longs before we take out old highs – or the end of the world – one or the other. And no one should ever trust anyone at their word if the speakers personal interests benefit from those words, to the tune of bazillions.
Peace…
oh and one strange thing i like to follow are flight prices. Airlines use very sensitive algos – but all algos are bad, right – and bookings must be fallin off the face of the earth, cause prices are. So if anyone here has travel plans… Good week to book a flight.
And bob one more thing.. America is not the world, so stop being so myopic… Purchasing can be replaced from elsewhere, and over time it will.
The banks are as sick as they always were. They are walking zombies and are insolvent. Occasionally a property comes to the surface to show their true lack of leverage and predicament, like 1522 W Wellington:
http://www.ziprealty.com/property/1533-W-WELLINGTON-AVE-CHICAGO-IL-60657/79995930/detail
Sure it might sell above 330k, but it ain’t selling for no 500k. As more and more banks are euthanized look for these to come out from under the carpet and priced appropriately.
“Thanks, Groove! That website is pretty fun, too”
no problem bro,
remember a few things during renovations/additions. a trap i have seen way to many is fall into the mind set hey i am already paying 50k whats an extra 2k to get that really cool looking whatever.
what ends up happening is that 2k repeats over a few times then at the end of it all the person all in tally is 70k.
flip side is also true a person penny pinching and cutting corners and going a level below what they want. either end up with expensive problems 5-10 years down the road or end up not happy with the end result and redoing it 5-10 years later at a higher cost. (plus the cost of the first time)
“Old hd may return from this bitter home searching experience. It shouldn’t be so shitty, of overpriced homes, and crapshacks with these ridiculous bids, and in need of so much work, and realtors encouraging sellers to hold firm on prices and reduce very little, and competiton from fha buyers with 5 or 10pc down how make god only knows what for an income, to homin shit conditioon with 8k in taxes and a kitchen from 1970 for sale for 2000 a month for the next 30 years. What a joke. Fuck real estate. These realtors and brokers losing their pants financilly deserve it.”
As I’ve said before, why not rent something nicer for a couple years while you wait, *if* you think prices will get better. I absolutely know the feeling of wanting to be (and your wife wanting to be) settled when the kid is here. Also, in 2-3 years you’ll probably have more clarity on your career/financial situation.
Groove. I’m sorry, but you just have no credibility telling people where to cut back on renovation expenses. I remember all to well the week you kept telling us how all your posts were being sent while sitting on your new japanese made self cleaning bidet with turbo spin and the Mr. Bubble foaming tickle massage jets.
Sheesh.. Some people!!!
“telling us how all your posts were being sent while sitting on your new japanese made self cleaning bidet with turbo spin and the Mr. Bubble foaming tickle massage jets”
hey some people collect stamps or build model airplane. I just take it a few step further
Groove, you’ll enjoy Tokyo’s airport then : )
“Groove, you’ll enjoy Tokyo’s airport then : )”
its been about 5 years, but i loved japan. of the 3 other countries i would live in japan was the front runner until recently.
HD – My advice for you is to just sit tight and enjoy the simple pleasures of being a father and living without the responsibilties of home ownership. As DZ alludes to, I think relatively new dads have an urge to “find the cave” and that led me to buy the house last year but it ended up being so much work that it distracted me from what I really wanted to do, which was just be a dad. There’s always going to be a home on the market that will pique your interest. And, while on the surface it seems like owning a home is more affordable than ever, the true costs are quite and seem to be going up–taxes, maintenance, utilities etc. A home with a PITI of $2,000 may end up costing you $2,500 or more per month once you consider all of these expenses. So even if PITI and rent are at parity, you need to consider the indirect expenses to consider if owning really beats renting. Anyway, you seem to be stressed about the search, so taking a break will be good therapy and just enjoy the great weather and being a dad.
what are the other ones?
New Zealand, Sweden (not for the obvious reason), oh and because my wife wants to italy will be added as a fourth (nice to visit i dont want to stay)
Doesn’t help home purchasers, but the C-S condo index in Chicago seems on the way up again, no?
2011 3 104.7409938
2011 4 107.7144478
2011 5 108.6375314
Also, top tier SFH prices (over $273k) have been basically stagnant for like 7 months now:
2010 11 118.62
2010 12 118.44
2011 1 118.46
2011 2 118.02
2011 3 117.3
2011 4 116.94
2011 5 116.85
I was kind of surprised by both of these numbers.
[C-S condo index]
I don’t think that down 15.66% YoY (may to may) is much of an uptrend from down 13.45% YoY (march to march).
Let me ask – why do people assume the cost of a home should be completely divorced from what it costs to actually build one, not to mention the supply/demand for the land in question?
this is a very American problem – it’s like consumer crap, we just assume something should cost what we *want* it to cost, independent of what it actually truly costs when all the externalities are taken into consideration.
homes/places to live are not luxury items. after food, they are the definition of what is needed to survive.
spending 35% or so of your income on your shelter – when if you’re smart will eventually lead to ownership – strikes me as a very, very reasonable proposition, historically speaking.
where I think this country went off the rails is when people were taking out loans based on a Ponzi scheme of housing prices far exceeding the rate of inflation, including labor cost-of-living increases.
and our government has been smoking a collective pipe containing very questionable substances- I just read a stat that said that only 6% (SIX!) – of the TARP funds dedicated to refinancing homeowner mortgages were used for that purpose.
“I was all prepare to take the plunge but 400k in the areas I want to live really buys nothing worth living in, and yet most every home over 500k languishes on the market, and the 400k hoomes sell nearly Immediatelyy anyway. IIt is a cruel joke.”
The older housing stock that hasn’t been reasonably maintained and updated should cost significantly less than the cost of new to account for depreciation.
Eventually the yr/yr indexes may be positive next yr as dough4dumps are creating horrible comps this year. The cheerleaders will come out of the woodwork then but the downward trend will resume soon thereafter.
People believe their house is worth what the tax man says because they don’t understand the tax man’s incentive to overvalue it & they want to believe it. Their house is only worth what someone else is able to pay for it. And there are significant headwinds facing what those someone’s are able to pay.
Chris M that idiotic paradigm is a remanent of the bubble just like high assessments don’t reduce the price of a place. Only bozos are dropping 400k on crapshacks anymore unless its prime old town. They’ll blame everyone but themselves when they can’t rehab those crapshacks into dream homes without significant effort & expense.
I agree to a point – not everyone can afford a new house, and it’s not like you can build a fixer-upper from scratch. The real question is still what is any given 25 x 125 lot worth on a given block.
I am shocked to report that sure enough, they are building a new house on the corner of Wellington & Christiana near me – it’s surprising as there is at least one new construction SFH a block or so away that was never fully completed, so I had assumed there was a surplus of such properties that would be more attractively priced than building from scratch.
“The older housing stock that hasn’t been reasonably maintained and updated should cost significantly less than the cost of new to account for depreciation.”
” their house is worth what the tax man says because they don’t understand the tax man’s incentive to overvalue it ”
Only thing that matters is the *realtive* valuation, and the *relative* valuation of residential to commercial to industrial. Tax Man could say that all the residential property in Chicago is worth $1000 in the aggregate (and that the commercial and industrial are worth $1000 each, too), everyone would just wind up paying a very high “tax rate” on their house that is assessed at $0.000652.
They take the budgeted propertry tax total ad divide it by the aggregate (equalized) assessed values–we aren’t Califorina with a defined(ish) tax rate which results in increassing tax revenue if home assessed values go up.
No, you’re only looking at half of the equation.
Even if nobody else wanted to buy my house, it would still be worth – practically speaking – at bare minimum what it would cost me to rent a similar space.
Hence my point on housing being a need, not a luxury.
Obviously a whole slew of issues muck this up, mortgage-deduction at tax time, uncertain property taxes, maintenance, etc.
But at the end of the day, Clio is correct that if rents go up, that plays a significant role into what a house is worth. One of the primary factors that led to my mom selling the victorian 2-flat near the Diversey brown line that she had resided in for 30+ years was that a glut of new condos/added rental density had screwed up the rental market to the point it just didn’t make sense for her as a landlady to stay.
“Their house is only worth what someone else is able to pay for it.
LOL, and yes, what anon says as well.
“Chris M that idiotic paradigm is a remanent of the bubble just like high assessments don’t reduce the price of a place.”
What comment are you referring to?
Not valuing crapshacks properly (chiefly land + demo/rehab costs).
Builders are making a killing on the $1mm+ SFH segment. Get the lot for 350k, spend 50k on demo 300k on a new build & sell for 1.2mm to some idiot rich person who thinks its a deal because its 15% cheaper than the other idiot rich person down the block who did it in 2009.
What can you build for $300k?
“But at the end of the day, Clio is correct that if rents go up, that plays a significant role into what a house is worth.”
The sky is blue and water is wet.
“They take the budgeted propertry tax total ad divide it by the aggregate (equalized) assessed values–we aren’t Califorina with a defined(ish) tax rate which results in increassing tax revenue if home assessed values go up.”
And perceived or actual rising property values don’t have some impact on the budgeted prop tax total in practice? That’s a genuine question. I understand what you’re saying but also wonder if a tax increase wouldn’t be tolerated better if perceived as the same rate on more valuable property.
“What can you build for $300k?”
This (more or less):
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2351-N-Milwaukee-Ave-60647/home/13417610
They claim they will be selling the in-progress SFH going up at 3001 N. Christiana for between $250K – $350K.
“What can you build for $300k?”
“They claim they will be selling the in-progress SFH going up at 3001 N. Christiana for between $250K – $350K.”
Listed at $379K, sale pending, about $320K above lot price.
“And perceived or actual rising property values don’t have some impact on the budgeted prop tax total in practice? That’s a genuine question. I understand what you’re saying but also wonder if a tax increase wouldn’t be tolerated better if perceived as the same rate on more valuable property.”
Maybe.
2003 property tax extension (Chicago only) = $3,420,262,098
2009 property tax extension (Chicago only) = $3,913,768,921
Up 14.4%
My taxes from 2003 to 2009: Up more than that. A *lot* more.
But you ask the question as if there’s much of a choice in Chicago other than to vote with your feet.
“Up 14.4%
My taxes from 2003 to 2009: Up more than that. A *lot* more.
But you ask the question as if there’s much of a choice in Chicago other than to vote with your feet.”
Is that adjusted for inflation?
“Is that adjusted for inflation?”
Strictly nominal.
CPI-inflation from 04-10 (the pay years for the 03 and 09 taxes)?
15.43%
I think the lot actually went for only $35K (nobody knew about it), but they did have to demo the crapshack that was there & probably got hit with fines to boot.
People must indeed love that new construction.
“Listed at $379K, sale pending, about $320K above lot price.”
“I think the lot actually went for only $35K (nobody knew about it), but they did have to demo the crapshack that was there & probably got hit with fines to boot.”
From redfin info, seems like the pre-demo lot went for $35K, then the post-demo lot was sold for $59.5K.
“But you ask the question as if there’s much of a choice in Chicago other than to vote with your feet.”
Asked as a non-native, non (directly) property tax paying, chicagoan. Interesting numbers. Also saw this, which unless it’s junk for some reason I’ll presume sometime other than a friday afternoon:
http://civicfed.org/sites/default/files/Cook%20County%20Property%20Tax%20Extension%20Process%20Primer.pdf
aaaargh, “peruse” not “presume”, and I don’t even have an iP* or android device to blame it on, like all the cool kids.
gotcha, thanks DZ. I feel a *little* better about that – my initial reaction was that for $35K I’d be willing to live in a tent on the lot.
“Strictly nominal.
CPI-inflation from 04-10 (the pay years for the 03 and 09 taxes)?
15.43%”
Interesting, thanks!
re-listed at $359,000