Selling a 3/3 Just 18 Months Later in Lakeview: 3763 N. Wilton
This 3-bedroom at 3763 N. Wilton in Lakeview came on the market in May 2011 just 18 months after it had previously sold.
The building was built in 2008 and units sold in both 2009 and 2010.
All 10 units did sell. This is the first resale however.
The building has an elevator.
The 1800 square feet unit is a rare property that has both 3 bedrooms and 3 baths.
It has upscale finishes including crown molding and millwork.
The kitchen has walnut cabinets, granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances.
The bathrooms are natural stone and marble.
There is a 5×22 front balcony (where I’m sure you can hear the roars of the crowd from Wrigley Field).
The unit also has central air, washer/dryer and parking.
Bought in 2009 for $529,000 and currently listed for $579,000, will this unit command a premium to its 2009 price?
Bethanie Williams at @Properties has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #3N: 3 bedrooms, 3 baths, 1800 square feet
- Originally listed in October 2008 for $629,000
- Sold in December 2009 for $529,000
- Originally listed in May 2011 for $579,000
- Currently still listed for $579,000 (parking included)
- Assessments of $184 a month
- Taxes are “new”
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 14×13
- Bedroom #2: 11×10
- Bedroom #3: 13×11
3 bedrooms probably would appeal to people with kids, too bad this is in Greeley.
I bet it sells right back at 529. Nice ceilings and finishes generally. Too close to the el for my taste though.
Very nice place. Sounds like seller is only trying to make back his purchase price and selling expenses.
It should get over $500K, but I don’t think $579K in this climate, going into winter.
Why does this get more than the 2009 price?
It’s not a top floor unit and cramming 3/3 into 1800 square feet is not always a good thing. Way too close to the el – the so-narrow-it-is-hardly-usable balcony has a great view of the train! I wonder why they didn’t list taxes…
Fail.
This property has been listed all summer. This property has not had a price reduction. This tells me no one is interested in the property at this price.
I just bought a place in a similar price context. Buyer’s closing costs are about 1.75%. Seller’s closing costs are about 8%. Everybody has their hand out- realtor(s), inspector, mortgage lender, appraiser, city/state/county assessor. This guy’s just trying to break even, he won’t. If you buy a place, turn around and sell the next day at the same price, you lose 10% in the process. Put that in your model…
This begs the question: Why buy if there is even the most remote of possibilities that you’ll need to sell 18 months later?
This site has been an amazing resource to watch sellers both win, and fail. This property goes into the latter category.
“This begs the question: Why buy if there is even the most remote of possibilities that you’ll need to sell 18 months later? ”
Since I have done this multiple times. When the market was going up. It was effective. Two, not everyone pays their own moving and closing costs.
Is this a general rule of thumb or just specific to this case?
“Buyer’s closing costs are about 1.75%. Seller’s closing costs are about 8%.”
“Is this a general rule of thumb or just specific to this case?”
On the seller’s side you have:
5% or 6% for the realtor’s fee
1.25% transfer tax
And then tack on the other closing costs of at least 1% to 2%.
It adds up to between 7% and 10%- depending on the agent you use etc. Some people will use low cost listing agents etc. and save some costs that way.
““Is this a general rule of thumb or just specific to this case?””
The percentage go up a bit as the price goes down, as some of the ancillary costs are fixed rather than percentage.
5-6% realtor fees are bordering criminal. Especially in a bear market.
I hope that business model soon becomes obsolete.
That sucks that they have to sell, they probably got a decent deal on the 2009 price if they lived there for a long time, seems like a nice enough place
That 5% is the only aspect of the business model keeping food on most realtors tables. Lowering the 5% to 1%-2% won’t increase sales but it will bankrupt all but the realtors with the highest volume of sales.
There are neighborhoods I watch where there are like one or two sales a week, and most are low end. it’s quite a rare occasion in these areas to have a sale with a jumbo mortgage even though most of the listings on the market require a jumbo.
I quite frankly don’t know how these realtors are eating, or paying the lease on the Lexus, or paying their own mortgages. Volume has picked up in some areas, but not all, and the most popular homes that seem to sell are the low end. Go figure.
“TB on September 29th, 2011 at 8:29 am
5-6% realtor fees are bordering criminal. Especially in a bear market.
I hope that business model soon becomes obsolete.”
X infinity.
Talk about a completely useless profession at this point. Give me unfettered access to the MLS and a RE attorney. Fin.
I wouldn’t want to pay a premium just so the seller can re-coup his costs. There are plenty of properties out there. The value of this place hasn’t increased 10% in the last two years. I understand what the seller is trying to do, but I’m not going to pay a premium for his mistake.
Killer comp:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3723-N-Wilton-Ave-60613/unit-1/home/39588879
$389k. Yes, a duplex down, and not as nice, but still.
” Lowering the 5% to 1%-2% won’t increase sales”
If some peoples concerns of entry are cost of exit, then of course it should improve sales. Removes much of the worry of having to move. Also gives sellers more wiggle room. I’m not saying it is cause enough to buy something, but I think it would improve sales.
FSBO is the joke of the real estate industry. It’s more about FSBO.com selling you their title services and other services than it is about saving on realtor’s commissions.
It’s about pricing properties correctly so that they move. Now, realtors mess this up quite often too, but not nearly as much as the FSBO sellers.
The realtors are simply the middlemen because, quite frankly, few sellers can properly sell their home on their own. It’s as simple as that. They’d all ask for a million dollars when their house is worth half of that.
“Talk about a completely useless profession at this point. “
That is a killer comp indeed. Maybe sells for $425,000
” few sellers can properly sell their home on their own. It’s as simple as that. They’d all ask for a million dollars when their house is worth half of that.”
So if I understand what you are saying, the MAJORITY of sellers and buyers are convinced to agree to a price based on the advice/recommendation of their broker?
My limited experiences of living in a condo led me to believe that everyone in the damn building knows value p/sf pretty damn well.
“Killer comp:” “Yes, a duplex down, and not as nice, but still.”
so really its not a comp at all then is what you’re really saying…
“The realtors are simply the middlemen because, quite frankly, few sellers can properly sell their home on their own. It’s as simple as that. They’d all ask for a million dollars when their house is worth half of that.”
Really? Pricing is the main source of value added from realtors in your view? Can’t you just pay for an appraisal/cma/etc. instead of the 5-6%?
“It’s about pricing properties correctly so that they move. Now, realtors mess this up quite often too, but not nearly as much as the FSBO sellers. ”
are you kidding me? This is about as dumb a statement as I’ve seen in a while
realtors want to keep prices high so their paychecks are high, they are probably dreaming more than anyone who has a pinch of common sense
“realtors want to keep prices high so their paychecks are high, they are probably dreaming more than anyone who has a pinch of common sense”
Well, they want volume more than they want high prices (and volume depends on the level and path of prices, in not completely trivial ways).
homedelete on September 29th, 2011 at 8:56 am
“FSBO is the joke of the real estate industry.”
And Realtors are the joke of the technology industry.
Realtors have the fate of travel agents, stockbrokers, elevator attendants and countless other middlemen. They are going to be marginalized by the internet within the decade. Lots of money and talent is currently working on this. Redfin is just the tip of the iceberg. It’s been slow so far but we have barely started.
most realtors are stupid and don’t understand economics
hell our brilliant president doesn’t even understand economics why should someone who has their GED and took 90 hours of classes and paid $300 have to know it?
“Redfin is just the tip of the iceberg.”
Redfin has been morphing more and more into a traditional brokerage. Realtors aren’t going anywhere, the only thing that’s changing is efficiency, using better search tools online, using online contracts instead of faxing paper back and forth, scheduling tours online, etc… I’d never check out a FSBO, the general public is too retarded to deal with.
“most realtors are stupid and don’t understand economics”
I heard that jenny ames went to yale.
Also, I would bet that virtually all realtors have a deep deep understanding that they get paid *only* when there is a deal.
Setting aside the disintermediation issue, if you going to have realtors making 5 percent (or whatev), I don’t know why contracts aren’t structured to give them a bigger incentive to get the seller the “best” price. E.g., if it’s pretty clear my house is worth $1MM give or take, rather than paying 5 percent on the total, pay 10 percent on the amount above $500K, or 25 percent on the $800K (I realize there are issues if you go too high), etc. Right now, their incentive is to close the deal, not get you the best deal. (I also realize that some/many realtors do work to get you the best deal and that there are long term reputational effects at work too, but why not make the short term incentives a bit more sensible too.)
“so really its not a comp at all then is what you’re really saying…”
It’s a 3/3 condo on the same block with the same general amenities, and more interior square footage.
For $200k less.
Would you trade your condo for another one with more SF, slightly lesser finishes, no view and $200k, Sonies?
It’s a comp.
Dumbasses have been predicting the demise of the real estate profession for years. Funny enough, the real estate profession is going through a change, but not because of technology, but because of the inability for most to earn an income in this day and age. Realtors are still here and the demise of the industry has been postponed until another day.
And yes sonies, everytime you type something, you just show how dumb YOU are, because realtors would take higher volume over higher prices any day of the week.
Realtors do provide other value, like negotiations, the knowledge of buildings/neighborhoods/schools; referrals for contractors, attorneys, appraisers, inspectors, brokers, etc.
But I stand by my assertion that pricing is the primary reason.
I ask all of you who scour the MLS on a daily basis: how often do you see the FSBO properties sell, and how often do you see teh FSBO set at some unrealistic price? I’m not saying it’s 100% of the time, but generally, FSBO means ‘overpriced unrealistic home with a cheap ass seller’
I agree with HD.
“Right now, their incentive is to close the deal, not get you the best deal. ”
Actually, given the historically low volume, the ‘best deal’ is a unicorn; often getting a deal to close AT ALL is a major accomplishment in an of itself.
With so many unrealistic buyers and sellers, and unqualified buyers and underwater sellers, I find it amazing that there aren’t less transactions!
Deals are closing. Just not at unsupportable bubble levels.
fewer, HD, fewer.
“But I stand by my assertion that pricing is the primary reason.”
And I stand by my question. If that is the source of value, can’t you pay someone (or a couple of someones) for a pricing analysis? Instead of paying the 5-6 percent?
“fewer, HD, fewer”
Do you think HD doesn’t know the correct usage (at least w/o thinking about it)? That is, is it true mistake or “typo”? (Sincere q.)
“And I stand by my question. If that is the source of value, can’t you pay someone (or a couple of someones) for a pricing analysis? Instead of paying the 5-6 percent?”
Two things:
(1) 2-3% of that is for the buyer’s “agent”, so has nothing to do with HD’s “pricing is primary” theory.
(2) “pricing” is two parts–determining the approximate FMV and deciding on a marketing strategy. The first part is worth about $300, the second part *might* be worth 2-3%.
Deals are closing, sure, and cars are selling off lots too, albeit at a significant reduction in volume.
“Vlajos on September 29th, 2011 at 10:23 am
Deals are closing. Just not at unsupportable bubble levels.”
“Do you think HD doesn’t know the correct usage (at least w/o thinking about it)? That is, is it true mistake or “typo”? (Sincere q.)”
Just grates too much. And I consider HD both a fake internet friend and strong enough to take it.
Also too much in the mode of correcting the kid on similar things.
fewer what? I can’t find my typo…
DZ: sure people can pay an appriser or broker for a BPO but nobody does that. And even if they did, they’d still be like “No way, the bps/apprisal is wrong. MY house is worth more..”
“Deals are closing. Just not at unsupportable bubble levels.”
Problem is, they increased the supply during the bubble to match those unsupportable levels. The supply remains, but the bubble level demand is gone, therefore, price declines for many years.
“fewer what? I can’t find my typo…”
@ 10:21: “I find it amazing that there aren’t less transactions!”
“I ask all of you who scour the MLS on a daily basis: how often do you see the FSBO properties sell, and how often do you see teh FSBO set at some unrealistic price? I’m not saying it’s 100% of the time, but generally, FSBO means ‘overpriced unrealistic home with a cheap ass seller’”
The one FSBO that was a house of interest to me (setting aside whether price was reasonable) was very well handled (maybe about as well handled as it could have been).
“(1) 2-3% of that is for the buyer’s “agent”, so has nothing to do with HD’s “pricing is primary” theory.”
Ooops, that’s a pretty fair point. That is actually the portion that I think should be easier to disintermediate.
“(2) “pricing” is two parts–determining the approximate FMV and deciding on a marketing strategy. The first part is worth about $300, the second part *might* be worth 2-3%.”
Another sincere q. What is (an example of) the marketing strategy?
“The one FSBO that was a house of interest to me”
Not that anyone cares, but I just remembered there was one other FSBO of interest to me. This other one wasn’t as well handled (the pricing was actually ok, the showing wasn’t). But that was just a half assed FSBO as they were planning to list with realtor shortly after.
“Another sincere q. What is (an example of) the marketing strategy?”
Start off with professional pictures; regularly scheduled open houses, cleaning, staging, being a cooperative seller’s agent, etc. Not that all realtors get it right 100% of the time, because they don’t.
But HD, none of that is pricing, which is what you suggested was the *primary* reason for using a realtor.
“FSBO means ‘overpriced unrealistic home with a cheap ass seller’””
And this differs from all your identical comments about properties listed with brokers??
Here’s a pricing strategy. Figure out your FMV (very, very, very easy in a condo). Find the best offered unit n your tier-type. Offer 1% lower. If anything in the building sells, it’s either you, or buyer is an idiot.
oh.. and if you get foot traffic, but no offers, lower your price 1% every 1-2 weeks.
Hahahaha. FSBO is usually MORE overpriced but that’s just me.
“gringozecarioca on September 29th, 2011 at 11:08 am
“FSBO means ‘overpriced unrealistic home with a cheap ass seller’””
And this differs from all your identical comments about properties listed with brokers??”
“gringozecarioca on September 29th, 2011 at 11:08 am
“FSBO means ‘overpriced unrealistic home with a cheap ass seller’””
And this differs from all your identical comments about properties listed with brokers??”
Saved me a post, thanks.
FSBO worked out great for me in ’06. I pulled my own comps and priced it accurately, took half the furniture out of my place and put it in storage, kept it neat and staged it well, and sold it in 3 days for $2k under ask.
I didn’t use FSBO.com. I just listed with a flat fee realtor (Berg Properties) for $3-400 to get on the MLS.
I showed the house maybe 3-4 times. I wouldn’t consider it $10k+ worth of work, but apparently realtors think their job is terribly difficult. *shrug*
It was easy as pie to sell anything in 2006, even if you were pricing at a new record comp. A realtor’s job is much more difficult today, relatively speaking. As is a FSBO’s.
“It was easy as pie to sell anything in 2006, even if you were pricing at a new record comp. A realtor’s job is much more difficult today, relatively speaking. As is a FSBO’s.”
Very true
“G on September 29th, 2011 at 1:22 pm
It was easy as pie to sell anything in 2006, even if you were pricing at a new record comp. A realtor’s job is much more difficult today, relatively speaking. As is a FSBO’s.”
Well, obviously there are less buyers today, sure. I still think the average idiot can do 95% of the legwork on their own, and at least they know they’re looking out for their own seller interests, which is more than I can say for realtors.
“I still think the average idiot can do 95% of the legwork on their own”
I don’t think you have much contact with average idiots if you believe that, not that I disagree about the ease.
Bradford… I’m on your side of this one. I did it post ’06. You make yourself the lowest p/sq ft in your bldg. You sell first. Who needs a broker for that. The market is either there for you at that price, or it’s not. I had one broker snip at me for FSBO and said they won’t show it. I just told him how happy his client will be when they see the listing online and want to know why he only showed them a more expensive unit.
Homes are trickier. But I kinda “faked” selling a home once. Not a small ticket item either. I actually had a bunch of foot traffic and an offer or two, but I wasn’t really selling. By the rime I was, I had one of the top brokers in the states listing it. Full page ads in magazines,etc… Broker was great but market fell out and I got clobbered. Had my price been right a year earlier as an FSBO.. gone!
No real diff from what I saw, even with a guy in the top 20 nationwide. Seems like it’s the buyers broker that brings them to you anyway. Bring me a buyer and I see nothing wrong with throwing a commission.
“I don’t think you have much contact with average idiots if you believe that, not that I disagree about the ease.”
yes, the avg idiot is rather a frightening animal. Although, personally speaking, intelligent idiots frighten me more.
Did you mean educated idiots?
It’s not hard or difficult to pull your own tooth either but it’s not something I would do.
“It’s not hard or difficult to pull your own tooth either but it’s not something I would do.”
Not something I would do either. I don’t see how offering something at X when everyone else is offered at 1.01X is like ripping bone from your own skull.
I just like to try new things, and look at any consequence (if tolerable) as a price paid for the education. Just more stories to add to the pile.
“Did you mean educated idiots?”
I don’t know. You can be educated and smart or educated and intelligent. So to me it’s not the educated part that is the factor. People that are smart are people that are rarely stupid. Many intelligent people are stupid. Maybe it’s just how I define each word. Much like if Clio calls me stupid, it bothers me. If he calls me a moron, I’ll agree. 🙂
I used Berg to self list in ’07.
I offered at the lowerest price of all comps
I offered (and paid) a 3% concession to the buyer’s agent. (This is key)
It worked.
All this after I had to fire a really sh!tty (and well known) agent for lying to me and ‘phoning it in’ (giving zero effort). Hell, his pictures were so poor, I gave him photos I took myself. He really deserved to be fired, mostly for lying to my face. Fat old pig. I’m glad I pocketed the $8000 he would have made.
Speaking of Wrigleyville Sabrina – did you hear that Carlos Zambrano’s house, somewhere around Wellington + Paulina, is on the market?
If being a Realtor is so easy and the money is so good, why don’t all of you quit your day jobs and become Realtors? After all, I am sure most of you are smarter than the average Realtard, right? Why toil away at a boring 9-5 corporate job doing mundane work when you can just get a Realtor licenses, take a few grainy photos, and make six figures working a few hours a week?
Buying RE is not the same thing as buying stock and airline tickets. Homes are not commodities. Will RE be disintermediated? To some degree, but not in the same way as a travel agent or stock broker.
“Russ on September 30th, 2011 at 8:09 am
If being a Realtor is so easy and the money is so good, why don’t all of you quit your day jobs and become Realtors? After all, I am sure most of you are smarter than the average Realtard, right?”
1. I don’t want to work evenings and weekends.
2. Who said the money was so good?
3. I think the role is essentially useless and hopefully will be done away with in it’s entirety. Why would I want a lame duck career?
4. Just because selling your own house is pretty straightforward, doesn’t mean selling another person’s house is
“did you hear that Carlos Zambrano’s house, somewhere around Wellington + Paulina, is on the market?”
No, I heard his suburban home is on the market though
“No, I heard his suburban home is on the market though”
Me, too.
“Zambrano has owned two Chicago-area homes: the one he is selling now, a six-bedroom, approximately 4,000-square-foot house in River Forest that he purchased in 2006 for $1.199 million; and a six-bedroom, 6,700-square-foot house in West Lakeview that he bought in early 2008 for $2.66 million.”
tribiune
“six-bedroom, 6,700-square-foot house in West Lakeview that he bought in early 2008 for $2.66 million”
Seems odd the virtual tour would still be up but I think this is from the last sale. It’s nice. No yard. Close to costco, I suppose.
http://tours.vht.com/realestateforsale/PhotoGallery/1103944/5/Kitchen-2_1725-W-Wolfram-Chicago-Illinois_60657.aspx
River Forest house:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/River-Forest/506-Edgewood-Pl-60305/home/13326496
Would this be too close to Wrigley for logn term owners? More likely this would be a rental for transient yuppies.
I used to live in the condos across from here on Grace. EL noise isn’t bad.
anon (tfo) on September 30th, 2011 at 1:37 pm
River Forest house:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/River-Forest/506-Edgewood-Pl-60305/home/13326496
———-
Taxes of $34G’s. Damn Skippy cross River Forest off my list.
So this person thinks their place is worth more now in 2011 than it was in 2009. Wow, they must be living in a bubble. The funny thing is that there probably is someone out there that will overpay for this place. It is FSBO because no realtor in their right mind would take on a project of selling this place at a higher price in 2011.
And while we’re on the subject – any scoop on a sale of Ozzie’s house?
“And while we’re on the subject – any scoop on a sale of Ozzie’s house?”
Well- he sold the townhouse in the West Loop recently and bought the house in Bucktown, right?