Selling a 4-Bedroom American 4-Square in Ravenswood Manor: 2955 W. Eastwood
This 4-bedroom American 4-Square at 2955 W. Eastwood in Ravenswood Manor has been on the market since June 2011.
In that time, it has been reduced $26,000.
Built in 1907 on a 35×120 lot, the house has many of its original vintage features intact including stained glass windows, beamed ceilings, a hand carved mantel, and built-ins.
The listing says there is a “chef’s kitchen” with 42 inch cabinets, granite counter tops and black appliances.
The house has a finished basement with a full bath.
All 4 bedrooms are on the second floor.
The house, however, does not have central air -but window units only.
It also only has a 1-car garage.
But for those who are interested in taking the El downtown, the Francisco brown line stop is just a block away.
Ravenswood Manor is highly prized by buyers.
Will the location ultimately be the top selling point for this house?
Mary Nack at The M. Nack Team has the listing. See the pictures here.
2955 W. Eastwood: 4 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 2148 square feet, 1 car garage
- Last sold in January 1986 (I couldn’t find a prior price)
- Originally listed in June 2011 for $625,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $599,000
- Taxes of $5835
- No central air- window units only
- Wood burning fireplace
- Bedroom #1: 19×10 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 13×9 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 13×12 (second floor)
- Bedroom #4: 16×10 (second floor)
- Family room: 16×12 (lower level)
REALTORZ R SMRT!!
flooded with lite
thru-out
hand-carved mantel
“REALTORZ R SMRT!!
flooded with lite
thru-out
hand-carved mantel”
“thru” is a Chicagoism, thanks to Col. McCormick.
Where is the error in “hand-carved mantel”?
Surprised this has not sold yet.
wow I always thought it was spelled mantle… guess I fail!
see clio, its not that hard to admit when you’re wrong
I spell it mantle too and my autocorrect likes both spellings
That bathroom is hilarious!
Lord knows this has been brought up a thousand times, but it must be asked:
Exactly HOW is this a “Chef’s kitchen”–because of the aforementioned 42 inch cabinets, granite counter tops and black appliances?
I like this one a lot (even the 50’s bathroom). It seems to be priced right, and the location is great. If I were looking for a SFH in the city, this would be on my list.
“I spell it mantle too and my autocorrect likes both spellings”
Mantle is a word, too (and not just the Mick’s last name), but I expect that the hand-carved item in this house is the el type not the le type.
Is is this still available? I don’t see it on the MLS?
“That bathroom is hilarious!”
What I find terrifying is that there are 3 (okay, 2 and a half) baths and that’s the only pic of one.
Also, note that there is only one full bath upstairs for the 4 bedrooms.
This house strikes me as an extremely good deal for the money. A nice, large, attractive older home in very good condition in a prime neighborhood. Love the stained glass bay over the stair landing, and the fine vintage details in the living room. The house is mostly quite beautiful and only that bath needs a little help- I’d keep the tile but slip a new white tub in.
In fact, the price actually seems a little low for such a house in a neighborhood like Ravenswood.
The sellers of the 4-square at 1225 W Pratt, which is still on the market at the same price, should take note of this, and drop their price a couple hundred thou. It amazes me how sellers of inferior properties in subprime nabes can so delude themselves when there is so much available at comparable prices that is of much higher quality and in a better location, like this.
Nice vintage details left intact.
AC window units (hate those) can be updated to high output ones, although a space pak would be a good option.
That bathroom can have it’s ‘beautiful’ pink tile painted with the proper primer and top coat to save $$ by a DIYer. Replacing toilet and tub even is easy enough to do. Total bath cost to update to an ‘acceptable’ level…$3000 each (X 3, I imagine) and a few weeks time.
Only thing negative is the one car garage.
Brisku’s Bistro is a cool lil spot with great beers. Oh yeah and Francisco stop on the news last night: platforms need to be rebuilt already LOL! At a cost of 300k because the city used wrong wood and still refuses to use even recycled plastic which doesn’t need weatherproofing and lasts forever. But we here in Chicago are big believers in gov providing for us and knowing best.
@westloopelo. Now now. How many times have you seen nice pics only to find a property doesn’t live up to them.
I toured this house. It’s cute with lots of vintage detail intact. Needs some work. In a good school too.
LOVE the neighborhood. This house probably has not sold because the clutter, mismatched paint colors and ugly borders are too distracting to buyers. It all gives the house an effect of needing more work than it probably actually does. That bathroom in particular is MEGA confusing and offensive to look at and people get scared off by kitchen and bath remodeling costs.
If a positive CS index report falls over in a forest of crib chatter permabears, does anyone hear it?
We’ll talk when its not a year/year decline, JMM. Heck we’ll talk when the year/year decline is sub 5%. Its at 7.4% now.
“In a good school too.”
If by good, you mean Waters #165 out of 250 is good.
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/October-2010/Best-Elementary-Schools-City-of-Chicago/
I think the big year/year declines are mostly over after this year though and we’ll see smaller declines of 3-4% per year through the bottom at end 2014 beginning 2015 at a case shiller sfh nsa value of 94-95..
Bottom will be between December 2014 and April 2015 mark my words.
“We’ll talk when its not a year/year decline, JMM.”
Yet SA nullifies the significance of YoY (which simply strips seasonality out), so why wait? The SA top tier index has you back to November 2010 levels. This while the economy has slowed and indisputably worsened. Seems like you are wrong that prices are declining.
“Bottom will be between December 2014 and April 2015 mark my words.”
Lol. And when it isn’t what do you really stand to lose by blithering that anyway?
“Its at 7.4% now.”
SA high tier is down 4.4% off a tough compare from last year. Probably most relevant to stick to properties over $277k.
Is 277k+ the high tier??? Sheesh. Well my predictions are only good for the entire market as the macro variables I look don’t split out.
Well I could lose out on timing the bottom. As it is a highly leveraged asset even a slight mis-step on timing could have a substantial and material impact on my net worth as I mark to market.
JMM: “you mean Waters #165 out of 250 ”
Out of 488; list was split in two.
Bob: “3-4% per year through the bottom at end 2014 beginning 2015 at a case shiller sfh nsa value of 94-95”
Check your math.
JMM: “SA high tier is down 4.4% off a tough compare from last year.”
Did you see that Comp-10 is actually up (yes, sub 1%) from two years ago? Driven by the 3 CAs and DC, with a marginal assist from Boston.
“Is 277k+ the high tier??? Sheesh. Well my predictions are only good for the entire market as the macro variables I look don’t split out.”
Yes 277k is the high tier. So basically the high tier composes substantially every property discussed here. So you are making calls about Ford Heights, Englewood and Woodlawn? Very useful to the audience here, thanks.
“Out of 488; list was split in two.”
Who cares? Its average for CPS which means it is awful for anyone who cares about education.
Are people proud of their kids attending #165 of anything? College? Law school? Probably not right. Maybe 165 on the Forbes 400 list thats about it.
“As it is a highly leveraged asset even a slight mis-step on timing could have a substantial and material impact on my net worth as I mark to market.”
It is not a highly leveraged asset for me or the other 1/3 of american homeowners that own outright. So, it is as leveraged as you want it to be.
I’m sure the vintage bathroom tile turns off the ‘must be all new, new, new’ buyers.
Tile can be pretty high end too. I know plenty of families who have spent $20 / sq ft on waterworks custom glaze tile for a bathrooms, kitchens, etc. It looks great.
“Who cares?”
Anyone who cares about accuracy in their data?
“#165 of anything? College? Law school?”
Radically different things, as there are at least a couple hundred decent (ie, non-embarassing, even on the north shore) colleges and unis, but there are barely 165 accredited law schools.
“Anyone who cares about accuracy in their data?”
Ordinal ranking is not really data. Besides if anyone wants to look at the data, its there to look at, which is why I took valuable time to post it. Any school ranked #165 is not that good never mind the denominator.
But thanks for spending time as a copy editor. Value f’ing added!
“there are at least a couple hundred decent (ie, non-embarassing, even on the north shore) colleges and unis)”
Have to disagree on that one. Completely, actually.
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/page+17
“even on the north shore”
The vast majority of kids around here go to big 10 schools. I wouldn’t say the north shore of Chicago is a bastion of intellectualism by any stretch, so I’d save your barbs for others.
In fact, this underscores how stupid city parents are turning themselves into a pretzel when it likely means the difference between NIU and Michigan State (or insert average midwestern school in place of either). At the end of the day, none of this really matters, I am sorry to say.
If they are smart, work hard and maybe pursue a good graduate education, that is all past history and frankly, no one cares anyway.
I think sarah palin went to a #165 school
“Have to disagree on that one. Completely, actually.”
So, Williams isn’t anywhere on that list. Embarassing, right?
Why do y’all allow Ripon (#105 on a separate natioanl list) to have an on-campus info session if it’s embarassing? Or Northern Michigan (#66 on a *regional* list)?
Those school numbers are from 2009 and out of 488. And as you state,
“If they are smart, work hard and maybe pursue a good graduate education, that is all past history and frankly, no one cares anyway.”
“Those school numbers are from 2009 and out of 488”
So find better data? On what basis were you drawing the conclusion the subject property is in a good school district anyway?
Let’s not forget the bottom half of the 488 caters to children who are barely getting by let alone learning. Go do yourself a favor and volunteer in the schools sometime and you might learn something about the bottom 50 percentile.
“So, Williams isn’t anywhere on that list. Embarassing, right?”
It’s not a national university. There are about 50 nationals worth discussing (U of I falls in the list) and maybe another 50 liberal arts colleges / regionals beyond that.
Where did you go to school Anon? You think #165 on any list is resume material? Surely it was a good and laudable school that taught you how to copy edit your blog postings with such excellent precision!
Oh, and where do you live Anon? In what # ranked elementary school is your current home? And how in fact did you choose said elementary school? Did it have something to do with rankings and reputation?
“I’m sure the vintage bathroom tile turns off the ‘must be all new, new, new’ buyers.”
Yes, but there are also entire websites devoted to people who love these bathrooms and recreate them in their homes! http://www.retrorenovation.com.
“It’s not a national university.”
Which would be why I used “colleges and unis”, not “national universities”. And I advisedly used “non-embarassing” rather than “resume worthy”. And it was all in the context of “#165 college/uni isn’t anything nearly as awful as #165 law school, as there are many, many more decent college/unis than law schools”.
And, of course, judging CPS elems solely on the meets/exceeds number under-ranks some and over-ranks many, as far as desirability for “typical CC poster” families.
But then you knew that, because your reading comp isn’t that bad, unlike some others here.
“In fact, this underscores how stupid city parents are turning themselves into a pretzel when it likely means the difference between NIU and Michigan State (or insert average midwestern school in place of either).”
You should read more up on MSU, or maybe my impressions are totally wrong.
_Some_ midwestern states, I know its hard to believe, have two flagship/top tier universities. Like Ohio (and no the other one is not Ohio University–it’s Miami), Indiana-IU& Purdue, Michigan: Michigan, MSU. NIU is a regional/community college. Maybe not to the same level as Harper, but still not nearly as close as MSU.
I’d say it’s worth getting oneself worked up into a pretzel over–you aren’t going to wind up at an F100 out of NIU at least straight out the gate. I hope you don’t make too many hiring decisions/it’s a small company as HR managers certainly know the difference between these two schools, so do many hiring managers.
Guess who generally winds up running departments at big corporations? It’s the flagship public state grads mostly with some others thrown in like Notre Dame (seems to be way over-represented in sr mgt IMO). Yeah you might need that pedigree of degree for Wall Street, but Wall Street ain’t here.
MSU
Admissions Data (2010):
* Percent of Applicants Admitted: 70%
* Test Scores — 25th / 75th Percentile
o SAT Critical Reading: 450 / 610
o SAT Math: 530 / 670
o SAT Writing: 460 / 600
o ACT Composite: 23 / 28
o ACT English: 22 / 28
o ACT Math: 22 / 28
NIU
Admissions Data (2009):
* Percent of Applicants Admitted: 59%
* Test Scores — 25th / 75th Percentile
o SAT Critical Reading: 430 / 580
o SAT Math: 450 / 600
o SAT Writing: – / –
o ACT Composite: 19 / 24
o ACT English: 19 / 25
o ACT Math: 17 / 25
“But then you knew that, because your reading comp isn’t that bad, unlike some others here.”
Perhaps clarity of writing is the issue?
“I hope you don’t make too many hiring decisions”
Lol. No, I don’t generally do the hiring out of college and what there is is limited anyway. MSU and NIU are two random examples. I do know everyone thinks their undergrad is far better than national rankings imply, or that their defined area of study was the “best” in its peer group. Usual BS. Starts with elementary schools and goes from there.
“Total bath cost to update to an ‘acceptable’ level…$3000 each (X 3, I imagine) and a few weeks time.”
Westloop, you are a dreamer. This may be your cost with your crew already in place – however, the normal person will NEVER EVER EVER find anyone to do a bathroom renovation for 3000 within a few weeks. You are totally delusional and living in fantasyland where fairies blow fairydust on everything and everything is perfect!! Grow the fuck up and join the rest of us!!
“But then you knew that, because your reading comp isn’t that bad, unlike some others here.”
Moron (I mean anon) – if my “bad” reading comprehension got me into UC, Harvard and Stanford and made me a multimillionaire I’ll take it anyday over your useless grammatical corrections and idiotic points…
“Are people proud of their kids attending #165 of anything?”
“Any school ranked #165 is not that good never mind the denominator.”
#165 high/secondary/whatev school in the world, let alone the US, is no good?
Also, just exactly how are people using LOL around here? Do not understand.
Generic university rankings are very uninformative. You should look at the ranking of specific programs. Sure Harvard is an overall great school compared to UCSD, but guess what if you want to study Bioengineering then UCCSD is a the better school. Material Science or Civil Engineering are ranked way higher at U of I than Harvard. Actually some of the best mathematic programs are in midwest: WISC is very highly ranked in mathematics, U of I is excellent in algebra and Fields medalist Stephen Smale is an all UMich grad.
At graduate level the advisor becomes even more important than the ranking, for instance the dean of GSB (now Both) is an U of I grad. He worked with one of the biggest names in stochastic control, P. R. Kumar now at TAMU (not highly ranked at all), but hey any student of Kumar is way better than most PhDs from MIT or Stanford.
“Actually some of the best mathematic programs are in midwest”
Really, the very top are not east and west coast? (Sincere question.)
Yeah, but miumiu, it is far more impressive to say ” I went to Harvard or Stanford” (which is PRECISELY the reason I chose to attend those schools).
“Some_ midwestern states, I know its hard to believe, have two flagship/top tier universities. Like Ohio (and no the other one is not Ohio University–it’s Miami), Indiana-IU& Purdue, Michigan: Michigan, MSU. NIU is a regional/community college. Maybe not to the same level as Harper, but still not nearly as close as MSU.”
Umm I don’t think MSU is considered to be on the same level as University of Michigan. So your theory does not hold up in Michigan. Perhaps the gap is more akin to Champaign vs Circle. People who went to school here in Illinois will provide a more apt analogy.
DZ, the best are on the coast as you mentioned. But midwest has some very good schools.
Yes, Clio in a bar trying to pick chicks it works better, but if you want to actually impress people that matter, say get a job at Harvard, then you need real substance : )
Steve Jobs went to Reed and never graduated. Who cares where you went to school?
Anyway-
I’m annoyed at all the outside links to properties that have nothing to do with what we’re discussing. If you post comments with links to suburban properties I will delete them.
But what is cribchatter without hinsdale?
ha! Right.
“I do know everyone thinks their undergrad is far better than national rankings imply, or that their defined area of study was the “best” in its peer group. Usual BS. Starts with elementary schools and goes from there.”
Can’t argue too much with this. My publicly subsidized school had one specialization was supposedly 2nd in schools. I have no idea how to verify the veracity of such a claim but had a roommate one year in that major. All work and no socialization. And at the end of the day I can’t think of any (or even alumni) I’ve heard about doing so much better with such a major.
I’m actually rather glad my undergrad school isn’t on the USNews radar. It provides me the privilege of it not coming up in conversation 😀
I rather detest USNews for other motives: if it didn’t exist would it allow school administrations to empire build. When you say you want to be a top X research institution it basically allows you to spend crazy research dollars and raise tuition on young people seeking an education. And its repeated all over publicly subsidized universities in the US and it’s quite disgusting.
What happened to their original goal of providing a great education at an affordable price for residents of the state?
Sounds like maybe they don’t need federal dollars flowing into those greedy coffers to me.
“Total bath cost to update to an ‘acceptable’ level…$3000 each (X 3, I imagine) and a few weeks time.”
I was simply quoting a price for a DIYer reno for these bathrooms and not a gut rehab done by my or other pro rehabbing company. Many people are choosing to go with DIY projects to save money, esp first time buyers on tight budgets.
I am friends with a great young couple who are both servers in a restaurant I frequent. I helped them find, through my vast network of connections, a pricechopped 1960s era home in LIC.
The house was in great shape…had good bones and was relatively well cared for by its original owner who had devoted her life to taking fantastic care of her home until she was no longer able to do so herself and sadly had to enter a nursing home.
One of my crew members is licensed inspector of homes for sale for lending institutions and he came along with me to assure them they did have a great home that only needed some cosmetic updating.
After he confirmed the entire structure was sound and well worth the asking price we decided to move forward on our plans for their updating project. All of the walls, ceilings, hardwood flooring, windows, doors and wood work were in great to excellent shape.
The reasonably priced house just suffered from being stuck in that 60’s era of low design. Being first time buyers they wanted to start at the bottom and this was a perfect practice project for them.
After a thorough tour and over a nice dinner, I gave them a free consultation during which they related to me what they were wanting to do and the end result they envisioned. Nothing was over the top…all they wanted was to update the place for their own use over the next 5-8 year period, after which time they plan on expanding their family and moving on to their next, larger home.
After we made some very detailed plans and a time line to hold them on track, we started shopping at home improvement stores, bathroom fixture warehouses and a SW paint center.
There they were able to choose some very nice, high quality vanities, toilets, plumbing parts and fixtures, flooring and lighting they loved.
With their own determination, advice and strong motivation from me, they took a week off and began their project.
After a few long days of hard work, they completed every item on their list and were very successful in getting ‘the look’ they wanted for their two and a half bathrooms at a fraction of the cost of a professional bath reno company.
Labor from a professional renovation company is a huge cost. Then the money making mark ups on their ‘only to the trade’ materials make projects like this nearly impossible to do.
By dedicating themselves to this project without employing the services of experts, my friends were able to complete this entire bathroom rebuild that they are very proud of. And the best part was they spent a total of $4000 as opposed to the $25,000+ price offered by the bathroom renovation company.
You’d be surprised what motivated weekend warrior DIYers can accomplish with the right guidance and knowing how to find some good quality, mid level fixtures.
Miss clio,
I realize you are more of a ‘talker'(professional BSer) and not a doer in any sense of the word. So the above would not apply to you…have you ever gotten yourself dirty doing manual labor? From the tone of your outrageous posts I doubt you even know how to install a simple screen window.
If someone on a budget wanted to improve the baths and did not mind doing the work on their own, this is the way to do it.
So once again…STFU YOU DO NOT know what you are talking about.
..you don’t
Westloop, you are a dreamer.
“YES DREAMING WAS THE MOTIVATION I NEEDED TO BE A SUCCESS IN THIS INDUSTRY”
This may be your cost with your crew already in place – however, the normal person will NEVER EVER EVER find anyone to do a bathroom renovation for 3000 within a few weeks.
“AGAIN, THE PRICES WERE FOR A DIY JOB AND NOT FROM A PROFESSIONAL RENO COMPANY.”
You are totally delusional and living in fantasyland where fairies blow fairydust on everything and everything is perfect!!
“NO ACTUALLY I AM A REALIST AND LIVE IN THE MOST DESIRED NEIGHBORHOOD IN NYC…AND MIAMI….AND DENVER.
Grow the fuck up and join the rest of us!!
“I AM GROWN UP BUT I REFUSE TO ‘JOIN THE REST OF US’ IF THE REST OF US INCLUDES YOU. IT IS YOU MY FRIEND WHO ARE DELUSIONAL AND HAVE SOME SERIOUS MENTAL ISSUES. YOU WERE SCARRED AT AN EARLY AGE AND HAVE SPENT THE REST OF YOUR LIFE TRYING UNSUCCESSFULLY TO DEAL WITH YOUR ANGER/SELF ESTEEM/NARCISSISTIC ISSUES”
SO ONCE AGAIN clio, STFU and go on about whatever it is you do in your life. I know it isn’t being a doctor as I cannot even get my doctor to answer an important call or email for days. He works hard in his practice and does not even have enough time in the day for his patients and living somewhat a normal life. Yet here you are all in all your mentally unbalanced life posting nonsense on a RE message board from 4:30 AM until late into the night.
If you really are who you claim to be there is no way in hell you are a success in anything you do.
SO ONCE AGAIN clio, STFU and let us focus on Chicago RE…something you know nothing about.
clio on August 30th, 2011 at 5:52 pm
Sorry Groove for the long ass response to clio. I know it is way too long for you to read but I just had to address miss clio in a way that she could be able to understand.
“…if my “bad” reading comprehension got me into UC, Harvard and Stanford and made me a multimillionaire…”
Saying this over and over again on an internet message board will never make it true. In your own mind maybe, but you really are not fooling any of us any longer.
Too many of your posts contridict yourself and have allowed us to realize you are nothing but a figment of a very disturbed individual’s imagination.
You are in grave need of some serious mental help. Taking that first step is the most difficult, but for your own good you have to take these steps.
We are worried about you clio. Please look into getting some professional help…all it takes is for you to admit you have a problem. The rest will all fall into place and you will be OK.
Trust me on this.
Sabrina sez:
“Anyway-
I’m annoyed at all the outside links to properties that have nothing to do with what we’re discussing. If you post comments with links to suburban properties I will delete them.”
Westloopelo sez in another thread on this topic:
“That is one thing that should be monitored more here… I thought any links that were posted had to have admin’s approval before them being posted.
I hate it when someone(s) will post links to other listings when discussing the featured listing and say this is a better deal. To me it sounds like paid cheerleaders are invading CC to promote their own firms listings.
Another topic that this type of link posting behavior presents is the internet security threat. I know I have clicked links here once (and many other times on other sites) only to get a warning from Norton telling of suspected viruses or other important threats from the site being promoted.”
No matter how you came to this decision Sabrina, I am glad you finally got around to realizing what this suburb link posting does while we try to keep the discussions of featured properties of interest on track.
Great Idea and we look forward to reading threads here on CC dealing only with your featured properties located in Chicago proper.
I could care less what is selling in Hinsdale or Oak Brook or any other suburb clio happens to be pushing at the moment and I know I am in the majority in feeling this way.
Here’s an idea for clio and his employees (LOL) why not start your own “Chicago Suburb Real Estate Guide – Everything you always wanted to know about the suburbs…but were afraid to ask”
One more thing…can we get away from talking about schools? Not every buyer of Chicago properties is interested in the proximity or the relevance of any school.
Not all of us are breeders interested in this information. What we are interested in is the neighborhood it is located in and the amenities the area in question has to offer.
Which RE site features school information at the bottom of every property fact sheet? Redfin?
Go there for your school talk and leave the rest of us out of this not relevant to everyone topic. I see how it starts out talking about certain schools then falls into so many other non interesting topics.
“I could care less what is selling in Hinsdale or Oak Brook or any other suburb clio happens to be pushing at the moment and I know I am in the majority in feeling this way.”
OK – once again, I am getting all the blame for something many many people (ok, HD) do. When I post links to some suburban places it is to show an alternative to the subject property. Obviously, i will stop – but I will also make sure NOBODY else (HD) does similar things. The world is unfair – but you guys are absolutely applying different standards to different people based on whether or not you like them. I shudder to think that any of you could actually be on a jury.
“Not all of us are breeders interested in this information. What we are interested in is the neighborhood it is located in and the amenities the area in question has to offer.”
AND THANK GOD YOU ARE NOT A “BREEDER”!! Can you imagine the type of letter westie would have to write to his kids school if they were sick or needed to be excused for some reason?!! It would go on for pages and pages ( something like “little junior appears to be feeling under the weather. it started yesterday while he was skipping through a field of poppies – you know, the yellow kind – not too tall, not too short, but the type that you see in movies……etc)
“SO ONCE AGAIN clio, STFU and go on about whatever it is you do in your life. I know it isn’t being a doctor as I cannot even get my doctor to answer an important call or email for days. He works hard in his practice and does not even have enough time in the day for his patients and living somewhat a normal life.”
westie…..uhhhh, did you ever think that maybe your doctor doesn’t answer your “important” emails because:
1. it would take him an hour to read them
2. YOU are the one that is crazy and he is ignoring you
don’t be surprised if he “fires” you – I bet that happens a lot!!
We looked at several older stucco houses, and noted at every house not already gut-rehabbed cracked stucco exterior conditions which allowed water infiltration behind stucco enough to create bulging, depressed, or sagging stucco (plus interior water-related problems. Anyone considering a stucco house should have an independent contractor closely inspect the house exterior stucco shell – in addition to the conventional home inspector route.
Though no problems are evident in photos, houses of this vintage with dated bathrooms that suggest spotty updates, it’s worth hiring independent electrician and plumber too to review systems and provide more accurate cost-estimates for updates and repairs. A home inspector recommended by a RE agent is often beholden to agent for repeat referrals rather than home-purchaser. and home inspectors are an inconsistently qualified bunch. We jokingly (not) refer to home-inspector who prepared report on our house as the “Blind Inspector”.
Last time I checked schools were considered an amenity.
“I’m sure the vintage bathroom tile turns off the ‘must be all new, new, new’ buyers.”
Hi Tomm –
I like your posts. I live in Edgewater too part-time. I love vintage tile. My place has vintage tile. But it’s white subway tile with a light green trim. I feel physically ill looking at the pink & blue tile/bath/toilet combo. Seriously. The room started spinning and I had to quickly click on a different photo before I hurled.
Also, they went for one of the cheaper Home Depot pedastal sinks with the faux-Grecian flourishes. I think it’s a much better investment to spend a couple hundred extra dollars and go with something plainer with a rectangular basin, also available from Home Depot. I have nothing against Home Depot.
I’m with JDM – I HATEHATEHATE all-white (or black/white and other “neutrals”) baths and kitchens!!!
Bring back the “Brady Bunch” era of harvest gold and aqua appliances! (Avocado can remain in the dust heap.)
Pink is a perfect color for a bathroom, especially the “master bath” which is most frequently used by the “mistress” of the house anyway. (The male is usually consigned to the hallway bath along with his shaving cream and Old Spice. Realtors, you know you’ve seen it.)
Of course, I know I’m getting on in years because I can remember when my mother’s magazines would carry ads featuring not only pastel bath decor, but a glamorously dressed model displaying a roll of pastel tissue paper (ready to place near a certain non-existent fixture).
I miss Mom’s Blue Scot-Tissue.
“Steve Jobs went to Reed and never graduated. Who cares where you went to school?”
Steve Jobs lives in one of the best public school districts in the U.S. and sent his children to public K-12. What is your conclusion then?
westloopelo, you don’t care to read about schools, skip the posts. I skip the novels you write in response to Clio. In fact, this whole constant bickering with Clio is not exactly informative. I don’t care much about schools either but it is a public forum not designed to specifically cater to me.
Also schools are very relevant to people’s RE decisions. It might not matter to you as a flipper, but does not mean nobody else cares.
“#165 high/secondary/whatev school in the world, let alone the US, is no good?”
DZ, if you can find world elementary school rankings then feel free to ask that question. And for that matter, why not stop at world, how about universe?
“Also schools are very relevant to people’s RE decisions. It might not matter to you as a flipper, but does not mean nobody else cares.”
Agreed. 100% germane ESPECIALLY with the city where everyone habrors insecurity about this “amenity” and ESPECIALLY with SFHs where school age children are almost certainly in or will soon be in the picture.
“Steve Jobs lives in one of the best public school districts in the U.S. and sent his children to public K-12. What is your conclusion then?”
I’m really sick of the school argument (at least at the college level.) As we’ve argued again and again- if your child is ambitious and gifted and driven and talented- it won’t matter if they went to Libertyville High, Lincoln Park High, Glenbard South, Latin, Walter Payton or Homewood Flossmoor. Sure- if they’re at Marshall on the South Side then we’re talking about a different equation because they’re being shot at while they’re walking to school. But for the truly talented- the high school is irrelevant.
Talent always rises to the top. That’s why I bring up Steve Jobs. He didn’t go to Harvard, Stanford or ANY of those schools. It really doesn’t matter- in the grand scheme of things.
Where did someone like Francis Ford Coppola go to school? What about Steven Spielberg? I don’t even KNOW! Who gives a crap? What about JK Rowling? Did she even get a university degree?
They have studied CEOs of corporations and the conclusion is that more of them attended state universities or smaller, private schools (NOT the Williams of the world) than Harvard, Yale etc.
I know someone who grew up downstate in a town of just 5,000 people. His graduating high school class had 30 students. He was “ranked” 10th. Do you think he got the same education as someone at New Trier? Um…no. But somehow he became the first student in his high school to go to University of Michigan (everyone else has always stayed in state). He did fine. Graduated and now has a good job in Chicago.
He didn’t go to Latin! Yet he is fine. Imagine that.
Actually- if your child really overachieves at a high school like, say Lake View- it is probably easier to get into an elite college. The admissions office simply sees less candidates from that school and they WANT diversity. They’re sick of the same kids from the same upper class families from the same suburbs.
Better yet- go and live on a farm 2 hours from Chicago. You’ll be guaranteed admission.
“I’m really sick of the school argument (at least at the college level.) As we’ve argued again and again- if your child is ambitious and gifted and driven and talented- it won’t matter if they went to Libertyville High, Lincoln Park High, Glenbard South, Latin, Walter Payton or Homewood Flossmoor. Sure- if they’re at Marshall on the South Side then we’re talking about a different equation because they’re being shot at while they’re walking to school. But for the truly talented- the high school is irrelevant.”
Sabrina, what you say is true – but you also miss the point. The extremely talented people (like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Zuckerburg, etc.) will always succeed (as you state) no matter where they go. HOWEVER, the majority of the children out there don’t have that type of talent – for THESE kids, it IS important where they go – because it really could mean the difference between a great career and a dead end job. Give me two average kids – put one in a good school with support and put one in an average schol w/o a lot of support and you will see a BIG difference – – so it IS important to the vast majority of the people on this site.
“Actually- if your child really overachieves at a high school like, say Lake View- it is probably easier to get into an elite college. ”
We’ve had that discussion before.
“go and live on a farm 2 hours from Chicago. You’ll be guaranteed admission.”
More like 20–in the Dakotas or Wyoming–as the name schools like to (try to) have someone from every state, and the Illinois box is already checked.
“if you can find world elementary school rankings then feel free to ask that question. And for that matter, why not stop at world, how about universe?”
I was referring to high schools or secondary schools or whatever else they might be called in other parts of the world. There are certainly US high school rankings (may be elem rankings too, I dunno) and I’d bet #165 is pretty decent. So same would be true for #165 in the world, or universe, or multiverse for that matter.
Sabrina, what you say is true – but you also miss the point. The extremely talented people (like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Zuckerburg, etc.) will always succeed (as you state) no matter where they go. HOWEVER, the majority of the children out there don’t have that type of talent – for THESE kids, it IS important where they go – because it really could mean the difference between a great career and a dead end job. Give me two average kids – put one in a good school with support and put one in an average schol w/o a lot of support and you will see a BIG difference – – so it IS important to the vast majority of the people on this site.
It must be in the water this week, but I agree with Clio on this – the school you go to does matter, if you aren’t going to be one of the rare few who make it no matter what.
but if you graduate from a CPS school you have less than a 6% chance of graduating college with a bachelor’s degree within 6 years of high school graduation. With those odds, COUNT ME IN!! It’s city living!
“Actually- if your child really overachieves at a high school like, say Lake View- it is probably easier to get into an elite college. The admissions office simply sees less candidates from that school and they WANT diversity. They’re sick of the same kids from the same upper class families from the same suburbs.”
Sabrina is 100% correct. A good student from the City is more likely to get into a good college than a similar student from a suburban HS. I know suburbanites don’t like this fact, but it’s the truth.
“same would be true for #165 in the world, or universe, or multiverse for that matter”
I don’t believe that the multiverse uses base ten, but then I may be misinformed.
“The April 21, 2006 issue of the Chicago Tribune revealed a study released by the Consortium on Chicago School Research that stated that 6 of every 100 CPS freshmen would earn a bachelor’s degree by age 25. ”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Public_Schools
CITY LIVING!!!
“the school you go to does matter, if you aren’t going to be one of the rare few who make it no matter what.”
This is correct to a certain extent, but not as much as many would think.
I know someone who smoked until he was 90 and never got long cancer that does not mean cigarettes do not cause cancer. Sure some drop out of school and still become very successful but it does not apply to most. Hence, people care about schooling.
““The April 21, 2006 issue of the Chicago Tribune revealed a study released by the Consortium on Chicago School Research that stated that 6 of every 100 CPS freshmen would earn a bachelor’s degree by age 25. ”
…
CITY LIVING!!!”
And what are the stats for poor, non-white kids in the suburbs? Without an apples-apples comparison, what’s that state tell us?
Use your common sense anon(tfo).
I love the Steve jobs & bill gates examples I always used to hear from people partying in college and failing out. I don’t know one of those people doing better than me and many are doing substantially worse. The latest example they use is mark zuckerburg.
MM you aren’t going to be able to explain probability to these people: they say confidence and competence are inversely correlated and most of those who think they’re too good/smart for school naturally think they’re on the good tail end so the distribution doesn’t apply to them. I’d bet a lot smoke too but because they think of themselves as special they think the adverse consequences are for other people, the “lamers”.
Lung cancer is the minority of those that die from smoking related complications. It gets all the attention because its lethal as all hell and fast but many more suffer and die from pulmonary or circulatory problems but when a smoker has a debilitating stroke at 64 they can’t blame smokes even though they were at fault.
“He didn’t go to Latin! Yet he is fine. Imagine that.”
I’d love to send my kid to Latin (or Parker). Not so much for college admission purposes (I’d want the same out of a good public school education and, as others have noted, if kids are smart and hard working, they’ll be fine), but more so for the environment, the curriculum, the activities, the location and stability. Basically, I see it being a better experience for the kid and for me.
Granted, getting in and paying for it is another story.
“Use your common sense anon(tfo).”
My common sense tells me that poor kids (1) drop out more, (2) start college in much lower percentages, (3) go to non-BA granting schools (ie 2-year programs) in higher percentages, (4) have more problems completing a 4-year degree, for a variety of reasons, and (5) CPS freshmen are *predominately* (86%, for all students) poor.
Show me a suburban school district with 86% low-income families that doe *significantly* better on college graduation stats.
“I love the … bill gates examples I always used to hear from people partying in college and failing out.”
Bill’s father was a name partner in a large Seattle law firm and his mom was on the Board of IBM (back when IBM was still *IBM*). So, if their parents had those resources, they might have a point.
One of the great sociological tragedies of the past century is the downgrading of American urban schools from highly-regarded places where nearly all children could get a head start on college or a good job, to “dumping grounds for poor kids” for various reasons that I won’t go into here.
“the downgrading of American urban schools [the past century] from highly-regarded places where nearly all children could get a head start on college or a good job”
So long as they were white, right?
City and suburbs both have their pros/cons…neither is perfect. As clio points out, it is obviously easier for most families to raise a family in the suburbs than in the city. However, some middle-class families are willing to cope with the drawbacks of the city to enjoy the benefits it has to offer. For HD, suburbs are clearly the better option and I am certain he will end up in Park Ridge or an adjoining suburb. No need to continue wrestling over the city vs suburb decision or criticize the city to justify one’s preference.
Staying in the city has a 50 year trend working against it.
anon have minority dominated schools always been poor at giving grads the skills they need to find gainful employment or goto some colleges? I am honestly skeptical of this.
I’d bet for those willing to look you’d find CPS wasn’t always about despair stories decades ago and I’d bet the decline to the current status quo is highly correlated with single parent households and the gubmint
cutting checks as a proxy for missing pa.
“his mom was on the Board of IBM (back when IBM was still *IBM*)”
Sounded odd to me. Can’t fully confirm or refute (but some evidence that she was on another board with ceo of ibm, but it’s all a little vague).
The greatest sociological tragedy of the past century is the rise of single parent households and the welfare caste. Where there is little incentive for the female to be selective who she procreates with knowing full well the government will step in and care for her and her children.
“Sounded odd to me. Can’t fully confirm or refute (but some evidence that she was on another board with ceo of ibm, but it’s all a little vague).”
Oops, you’re right, board of United Way, along with the CEO of IBM. Clear recollection of bad information. Point remains, that I doubt Bob’s ne’er-do-well rationalizers didn’t have a parent on the *local* UW board, nevermind national.
“anon have minority dominated schools always been poor at giving grads the skills they need to find gainful employment or goto some colleges? I am honestly skeptical of this.”
I was focusing on the low-income side. Which you go on to agree with.
“Point remains, that I doubt Bob’s ne’er-do-well rationalizers didn’t have a parent on the *local* UW board, nevermind national.”
Also, while gates didn’t graduate, he wasn’t exactly goofing around in college.
Actually wleo the neighborhoods highest on welfare dependency likely have fewer taverns. You don’t see LP trixies bringing babies into this world out of wedlock and on the public dole to provide some meaning yo their life. So your attempt to obfuscated the issue with alcohol failed.
Now lets analyze your supposition that the blame is gender neutral/split: throughout the animal kingdom generally the males try to maximize their matting opportunities with females and the females do the selection and the majority of child rearing. There are exceptions among species but generally hominids fit this characterization.
The genders are not the same not just physiologywise but also in psychology.
Looks like someone is ignoring mother nature in favor of progressivism and the quack theories that go along with. And its not surprising as this certain someone never fit into mother natures grand scheme of things anyway. In fact it appears she’s actually plotting against you guys.
Nope, you are just boring me.
“People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible{?}”
Bob.. How can you say that about the partying, and barely graduating, and doing better than you. Fits me perfectly. I supersized my meal yesterday, so i got you beat!!
ze it don’t matter we all know a supersize abroad = a medium American size. funny story first time in Amsterdam was stoned and trying to get a large size but they kept giving me a medium and I was convinced they were fvcking with me so got in an argument while poor kid was trying to explain that was their largest size.
TFT: I’m just teasing, but I don’t believe in emoticons.
cribchatter is the laser pointer that keeps all of us cats enthralled, if only for brief spurts of our attention. the seemingly uncatchable laser dot is that dream house each of us wants but noone seems to be able to get even after multiple pounces. and with cats there are going to be frequent skirmishes, moodiness and cats that will just not get along for whatever reason…which leafs me to my next question: where was that laser dot last??
“the seemingly uncatchable laser dot is that dream house each of us wants but noone seems to be able to get even after multiple pounces.”
uhhhh I’ve caught my “laser dots” – and that has nothing to do with the posts/posters on this site.
no you haven’t Clio. that’s why you lament your big empty estate and sometimes the despair comes through that being a land baron isn’t glamourous, fun, or the guaranteed money making proposition its cracked up to be.
and you might have caught up to where the dot was but alas its moved.
HD, is it not enough that you believe in your own view of the world/RE, but you need everyone else to agree with you and confirm your beliefs?
Yes. The RE market is terrible. The Bubble Popped. Next?
Yes. Chicago has suffered from middle-class flight in the past 50 years.
What’s with the constant need to shout from the soapbox – do what’s best for you and get on with your life.
homedelete on August 31st, 2011 at 9:41 am
Staying in the city has a 50 year trend working against it.
“They have studied CEOs of corporations and the conclusion is that more of them attended state universities or smaller, private schools (NOT the Williams of the world) than Harvard, Yale etc. ”
Good thing their myopia keeps them from the truth. CEOs of corporations are not the only pool of success, and in fact, is a small niche pocket that is meaningless to study.
Try looking at average, 10 and lifetime earnings of top 25 universities vs. control all other college educated. You will find an incredible divide.
The vast majority of my former classmates (who work – some are mothers and the like) make over $300,000 per year, most over $500,000 per year and not one of them is a CEO of a public corporation mostly because the ones in corporate still young yet. They are investment bankers, investment managers, private equity partners, partners at major law firms, partners at top strategy consulting firms, doctors, entreprenuers, VPs at large multinational corporations. Granted job locations skew towards the coasts, but no matter.
Definitionally there are only 500 sitting F500 CEOs (maybe a few more for lame Co-CEO situations). That is not a useful pool to gauge success. Not to mention many who would or could be capable of that role wish not to assume it do to the BS you have to put up with. Easier to sit behind a computer screen with $5B in 2/20 money at your disposal.
Perhaps no better example but the largest house in our town is a tear down for which the buyer paid around $9M. Now what is instructive is that 20 years ago it was owned by the CEO of a corporation. Today, it is owned by a hedge fund manager. You get the point.
Being a CEO is neither a litmus of intellect nor is it necessarily a benchmark for success. Very few if any CEOs own more than a token amount of their company and what they do own is meant mostly as incentive compensation.
“What’s with the constant need to shout from the soapbox – do what’s best for you and get on with your life.”
THAT’S THE BEAUTY OF IN THE INTERNET! SKIP MY POSTS IF YOU DON’T LIKE THEM!
“They’re sick of the same kids from the same upper class families from the same suburbs.”
Which explains why when the WSJ looked at the schools that send the highest % to top institutions they were all small schools in rural locations right?
Not quite.
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-COLLEGE0711-sort.html
I believe substantially all are private, expensive and exclusive. Sorry but statistically that is not true.
I believe Clio went to one on the list as did I though thankfully not the same one… I can tell you from personal experience admission to these top universities was significantly influenced by the high school you went to. Sure selection bias plays some role, but not all.
OK OK OK readers – how can you guys totally blast me about everything when you JMM, the most arrogant POS out there, posting nonsensical BS about schools/ceos, etc. He is a rental agent (or something like that) but acts like the King of England!!!
No Clio, I am not a rental agent. I am the one who had to teach you that a series LLC does not provide anonymity. And for the record, I rarely post anything in response to your drivel so put a cork in it.
here you go JMM, the list of top party schools per median midlife salary
Because life is all about having fun right, not just money?
http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/top-party-colleges.asp
University of Illinois in at #1!
Represent!
UIUC is a good school, no doubt. Great engineering and undergrad business programs as well.
“The vast majority of my former classmates (who work – some are mothers and the like) make over $300,000 per year, most over $500,000 per year and not one of them is a CEO of a public corporation mostly because the ones in corporate still young yet.”
Seems low. Are your friends still in their 20’s?
ze,
I don’t think a 300-500k salary is “low” or that these people in their twenties. I know some people in their thirties making that amount and, although, they are struggling a bit, I think they will be OK.
Lol. Yes too low to buy Windward. For that you need 2/20 money.
“For that you need 2/20 money.”
Understandable, but I prefer 4/20.
On the subject property: it’s my understanding from an agent who toured it that it’s not in great shape. She didn’t think it was worth the list price (at least the initial one).
The front porch is pretty neat, though. 🙂
“I believe Clio went to one on the list as did I though thankfully not the same one… ”
Me, too! Korean Minjok Leadership Academy represent! How I remember my fond days in Chungmoo Hall!
In all seriousness, that “study” sucks without a more appropriate list of “top colleges” and without correction for entering class demographics.
“Me, too! Korean Minjok Leadership Academy represent! How I remember my fond days in Chungmoo Hall!”
How reading that, is not better by 10, than reading some stupid comment about bowling alley floors, in a kitchen, in a SFH on W. Eastwood. I have no idea.
It’s a data point as reasonably assembled by the folks at WSJ. Interestingly, it does not overweight on east coast schools either. Personally, I think it is interesting but the reason I posted it is it totally disproves Sabrina’s unsupported assumption that it is somehow easier “on the numbers” to get into a good college going to some remote rural public school. Sounds good based on her focus group of 1 but doesn’t prove out and here is the evidence why.
Why take umbrage at Sabrina’s unsupported notions? Nothing personal but she tends to get fast and loose with the declarative statements of fact, when in reality they are her naked opinion.
But it provokes debate. Debate provokes posting and readership. Readership means traffic for the ads. Ads aren’t free…
” it does not overweight on east coast schools either”
Really?
“Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Williams, Pomona, Swarthmore, the University of Chicago and Johns Hopkins ”
Based on frosh enrollment, ~80% east coast, ~15% Chicago and ~5% west. Seems a bit overweighted.
JMM,
In all seriousness. I think you are speaking apples and oranges. I always interpreted Sabrinas comment as being that a kid from a High School in Wyoming, that could never get in if he/she were at Collegiate, has a shot from Cheyenne High, where there is no competition in the state.
JMM is right about expected return from rising up through the ranks through corporate America though. Most people don’t know the percentages or overestimate their odds or are in it for power/respect and not necessarily money (these are the best rank and file mgrs).
Dumbest thing HR did at my big co was have in a presentation the number of execs at the higher levels. 5-6% of white collar workers made ~140k with token amt of options. Corporation told them they were executive band tho to make em feel good.
The real money and perks didnt kick in until the next level up–the sr exec band. 200k sal plus Co car and big cash bonuses. Probably was they were 0.25% of white collar workers. Next level up similar but lots more options, potential for FU $ if and only if Co stock rises. probably is they numbered 0.1% of all white collar workers.
Most people that are really on their game, work there ass off and really want it top out in the top 6% group–management is scaleable.
But Co HR depts are smart they have SR execs give presentations on their caterer path so the young employees identify with them and overestimate their odds of being in the top 0.35% club so work real hard and stick around for awhile.
er probably should’ve read problem..
oh yeah and Co stock is down 50% from when I left. guess the analysts on the street had to back out the bobbo valuation premium 😀
“a kid from a High School in Wyoming, that could never get in if he/she were at Collegiate, has a shot from Cheyenne High, where there is no competition in the state.”
No that still isn’t sensible. The probability of B given A is what is at issue. Given one of these good schools, your probability is multiples higher than given a BFE rural education school. Don’t take an average student from St. Pauls and drop him in Wyoming — doesn’t work that way. Sure there was always a token from one of these states, but on the numbers the token was against all odds. What is far more likely is someone being admitted on a rare talent or demographic that is not related to region.
The numbers are even more compelling than they appear as well. 26% of the class went to these schools. I can basically guarantee more than 26% were accepted from any one of these schools. When my sister applied to college at least one prestigious sub 25% acceptance school on the east coast ultimately accepted everyone from my HS who applied her year, granted two got in off wait list. This was a school in the top 10 most selective in the country. This was decades ago, and things are much more competitive. And it helped that many were legacy. But it proves the point the deck is stacked like many things in life.
“The real money and perks didnt kick in until the next level up–the sr exec band.”
You have lots of resources working at large companies, but the implicit trade is very few can make serious dough and even then its not that much. It is a trade off many ultimately parlay into spots at PE backed middle market companies, and they usually do very well. Public company work is for the birds, unless you are a CFO where they are paid significantly more. But then you are on the wire signing your life away every quarter. I’m surprised we don’t see more CFOs getting nailed for DUIs on the north shore as a result quite frankly.
You only need so much cash to pay the bills. The rest is wealth creation opportunity.
Why is everyone here so obsessed with colleges?!!!! Who cares? I remember applying to colleges and medical schools and, even at THAT time, I didn’t care as much as the people on this site. It is truly unbelievable (oh yeah, and I went to Uchicago, Harvard and Stanford and even I am getting sick of it).
“No that still isn’t sensible. The probability of B given A is what is at issue. Given one of these good schools, your probability is multiples higher than given a BFE rural education school. Don’t take an average student from St. Pauls and drop him in Wyoming — doesn’t work that way”
See, I am not sure that is completely innacurate. I am not starting with the presumption of ‘average’ to begin with. You and I both went to insanely competitive High Schools. I bet you grew up not even knowing people didn’t go to college. I didn’t know that until one day, driving with a friend from Ohio, he told me that only 15% of his class went to college, and only 5% graduated. I am certain most went to Shit U in Columbus to really add insult to the numbers. So the kid you and I went to school with, that got into a great school, but ‘just not Ivy’. I think that kid in Cheyenne ‘is’ that token. Honestly, I know little about admissions, simply hypothetical.
Of course, living in Cheyenne in order to get your kids into Princeton, is a price and a half to pay.
Now if I am wrong, please don’t tell me. It violates my theory of having my fictional kid move back from Brazil, to the U.S., just in time to get his full soccer scholarship to Berkeley.
Sabrina’s example of sending your kid to a shyt HS to increase their odds of getting into an extremely competitive university is ludicrous. They might have a slight advantage with the adcom but that is far outweighed by having a lower quality peer group, especially at city highschools like Lake View.
“But for the truly talented- the high school is irrelevant.
Talent always rises to the top. That’s why I bring up Steve Jobs. He didn’t go to Harvard, Stanford or ANY of those schools. It really doesn’t matter- in the grand scheme of things.”
Most people’s kids aren’t truly talented, just like most people. If they want to delude themselves into thinking their kids have a better chance due to whatever that’s fine. They should consider the counterpoint that an all or nothing strategy means their kid will either go top tier or NIU/no college, no Michigan State, no OSU, etc. And funny Ze called OSU a shit school you can tell there’s very few places in America he’d fit in..big wonder he left! 😀
People should be realistic about what’s in the cards for their kid and plan accordingly. Thinking one’s kid is a genius is doing them a huge disservice overall.
I wouldn’t send my kid to a non-magnet CPS high school because: the stats on it suck, the people I know who went there say it sucks, their peer group will be sufficiently less motivated than better schools (HUGE factor) the people I know who went there either do blue collar work or are groove who used to 🙂
Does it have to be New Trier? Heck no. But it ain’t going to be LVHS either. Rationalizing sending your kid to LVHS to increase their odds of getting into harvard shows how selfish some parents must be to be able to live the city dream and walk to the bars and starbucks.
“It is a trade off many ultimately parlay into spots at PE backed middle market companies, and they usually do very well. Public company work is for the birds, unless you are a CFO where they are paid significantly more. But then you are on the wire signing your life away every quarter.”
True and I know a couple guys I used to work with that wound up at a very prestigious PE shop. But that lifestyle ain’t for me: you have to love doing accounting and finance type work.
But yeah it seems the risk/reward tradeoff in corporate America is horribly out of wack these days: used to be you took the lower pay for a great quality of life and a steady paycheck and great benefits. Increasingly non-existent.
I’m probably going into sales at some point. I need a career where my paycheck scales with my effort. Being an overhead at a company as you know you top off pretty early and then it’s a 3% raise out to infinity if you can even keep your job.
“You only need so much cash to pay the bills. The rest is wealth creation opportunity.”
Its amazing how many Americans don’t understand this. If you’re leveraged to the hilt your the perfect indentured servant to the executive class.
I don’t want to earn 200k/year to live a 200k/year lifestyle. I want to earn it to live a 60k/year lifestyle and work on that wealth. Its amazing the opportunities that present themself for those with the cash. And very few seem to have it even among the 200k+ income set.
Like MLS 07893006. Some investor is gonna swoop in, buy it, spend less than 30k on the place and flip it for a tidy profit for the amount of effort. Most working stiffs will miss this as they don’t have the liquid cash ready to go, because they’ve been living a lifestyle that consumes all their income.
“Like MLS 07893006. Some investor is gonna swoop in, buy it, spend less than 30k on the place and flip it for a tidy profit for the amount of effort”
WRONG WRONG WRONG – this place is a piece of crap and nobody – let me repeat NOBODY is going to pay 80-100k for this (even rehabbed) – the neighborhood and type of place that it is screams rental – so if an investor DOES buy it, he will be holding on to it for a long long long time and chasing his rent every month. Bob, you should thank God you don’t have money – cuz it soon would have been gone
“Most people’s kids aren’t truly talented, just like most people.”
This is what I’ve been saying all along. Someone’s kid finishes LAST in their class at New Trier. Heck, someone’s kid finishes at the 50% range at New Trier as well. New Trier is a great high school. But your kid at New Trier or Libertyville or Maine South or Downers Grove North or at least 20 other schools- the outcome is going to be THE SAME.
“Ze called OSU a shit school you can tell there’s very few places in America he’d fit in”
Columbus Ohio = Nice places in America ??
Columbus is exactly what one would expect to find, dead smack in the center of nothing. College town without pretty girls, it’s the most amazing thing I have ever seen. Now a good post home game Saturday night out, down at U of Tenn.
“The numbers are even more compelling than they appear as well. 26% of the class went to these schools.”
It is self selecting. My friend who went to the rural high school with 120 students was the first person in the history of the school to apply to the University of Michigan (and the school was founded in 1935.)
You think the admissions office didn’t sit up and take notice when they got an application from a kid from a high school in small town america they had never heard about before, whose family had lived in that small town for generations, but who somehow dreamed of going to school in Ann Arbor?
Of course they did. It’s why he got in- even though he ranked 10th in a class of 30 (he had the ACT score though.)
Georgetown’s admissions team has said they ask, “what will this kid bring to Georgetown AND how will Georgetown change this kid?
They see dozens of bright suburban kids from good high schools who could clearly do the work at a school like Georgetown. But-ho, hum, another one of THOSE. Nothing remotely interesting about those students. Going to G’Town wasn’t going to change their life. But going to G’Town could change the life of, say, Bill Clinton or someone from a downstate high school.
Of course plenty are let in because they’re super smart, they’re legacies, they play a sport, they want to study something strange. Who knows.
Many major universities send recruiters out to the smaller more rural high schools in the hope of convincing students to apply. Most don’t.
The valedictorian of my friend’s high school applied to U of Chicago, U of I and SIU. He got into all three. SIU gave him a full ride so he took it (was a music major- and didn’t want any loans.) Has now gotten a PhD- all on scholarship. It worked out well for him.
“Staying in the city has a 50 year trend working against it.”
This is interesting HD because in the last 10 years they’ve stopped some of the slide. But now, interestingly enough, those who are leaving ARE those in the lower income neighborhoods. Those who are staying- or moving in- are in the higher income brackets.
If you drive around some parts of the south and west sides- there are just whole neighborhoods abandoned. It looks like Detroit.
relax Clio its too far off the beaten path for me and if I’m going to chase nickels from deadbeat tenants ill be an owner/occupant of a 4+ flat. a lot easier to make their life hell when you live there
clio on August 30th, 2011 at 5:48 pm
“Total bath cost to update to an ‘acceptable’ level…$3000 each (X 3, I imagine) and a few weeks time.”
Westloop, you are a dreamer. This may be your cost with your crew already in place – however, the normal person will NEVER EVER EVER find anyone to do a bathroom renovation for 3000 within a few weeks. You are totally delusional and living in fantasyland where fairies blow fairydust on everything and everything is perfect!! Grow the fuck up and join the rest of us!!
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I can rehab a bathroom with me doing no work for $3K. That would include new floor, new vanity, new fixtures, paint, and bath tile. I would spray the bath tub if it was cast. Replace if fiberglass. I could probably even put a new window in within the $3K budget as well. Again this would be not lifting a finger just writing the check.
Of course this would not include new copper for the entire house….
Clio some of my friends do plumbing and you’re definitely being quoted rich guy prices from yours bwahaha!
I really would like to hear from people who have ACTUALLY gone through a bathroom remodel. I know a lot of people think that it costs X or expect that it costs Y or think that it shouldn’t cost more than Z – but, like the idiotic prediction of house/condo prices, these estimates are based on anecdotal stories, casual observations, and self-directed justification of prices. Let’s hear some real stories and actuals costs.
clio on August 31st, 2011 at 8:21 pm
I really would like to hear from people who have ACTUALLY gone through a bathroom remodel. I know a lot of people think that it costs X or expect that it costs Y or think that it shouldn’t cost more than Z – but, like the idiotic prediction of house/condo prices, these estimates are based on anecdotal stories, casual observations, and self-directed justification of prices. Let’s hear some real stories and actuals costs.
I’ve done several which is why Im saying I CAN do it for $3K
Lunker – I am talking about a bathroom real house/condo – not an outhouse or a bathroom in a crackhouse in englewood.
My buddy has a somehwat dumpy one bed condo on lsd. He got five quuotes from five contractors to redo his bath keeping the tub and toilet and each quote was about the same : $8,000:
Clio, we rehabbed a bathroom in our home. The tiles on the wall of the shower were not in great shape and it is an old bathroom. We got lucky and found the exact same matching tiles to the border in rest of the bath so we only had to redo that wall. I think it was around $600-70S. We changed the vanity and the toilet but kept the bathtub and change light fixtures. We did not change the floor tiles which I love. I think the fixtures cost under 2K but they are basic and not at all fancy. We paid quite a bit to the plumber though. Again I don’t remember well, but my hubby thinks it was around $500. Our plumber is an old guy and this is an small town so he is pretty cheap so 3K is not unreasonable.
In my condo that I had in school, I had to change a window. The whole thing with some paint job cost around $800 including the window (I think). This was I think in 2002, but the guy who did it was again old and part of my bridge club so I think he was not charging me too much.
I wonder if getting a contractor is pricier than having it done a la carte.
“My buddy has a somehwat dumpy one bed condo on lsd.”
Immediately everyone that inspects the unit knows your friend is price sensitive and likely WILL shop around on price and choose the cheapest. So they probably quoted him a cost + very minimal fee. In this economy maybe cost just to keep the guys utilized.
But someone perceived as rich/wealthy and non-confrontational/too busy to bother they may mark it up. I would definitely get multiple quotes.
one must remember part of the difference in batroom estimates, going on here, might have something to do with the fact, one may if they so desired, blow that 3k budget, just on a double kohler sink, marble countertop, and faucetts. Nice rainshower shower head can easily drop you 1k as well, get happy with turning your shower into one of those ‘beam me up scotty’ transporters, and you can go big dollars fast. My must have steam room, you union lovers, that’ll cost ya some nice labor alone.
So it really depends how you do it, and if you are the one to do it. Yes, you can do a bathroom for 3k or 30k.
“My buddy has a somehwat dumpy one bed condo on lsd. He got five quuotes from five contractors to redo his bath keeping the tub and toilet and each quote was about the same : $8,000:”
THANK YOU HD – finally, someone speaks the truth!! While I totally understand that a contractor (who is well versed in plumbing, tiling, and electric) COULD do a total bathroom renovation for 3000 (I have done it myself), 99.99999% of the people on this site DO NOT have the expertise, time, energy or know-how to do such a project (remember, we are not talking about switching a light fixture or a few bathroom tiles- I am talking gut reno of a bathroom). The average cost IS going to be 8k-10k for a decent bathroom (much higher for fancier things). This is also why I get so angry at some (westloop) who wax poetic about his experiences and costs without understanding what a real person will likely face. His (and others) price quotes are dangerous because it could lead to people making bad decisions on home buying.
“They see dozens of bright suburban kids from good high schools who could clearly do the work at a school like Georgetown. But-ho, hum, another one of THOSE. Nothing remotely interesting about those students.”
Right which explains why they take some many kids from jesuit high schools like SI and Loyola. You are way off base.
We did a larger bathroom, it cost $10k labor and around $15k materials such as fixtures, glass shower exclosures, tiles, etc. It was a big job but not over the top. Footprint was probably 10×15.
JMM on September 1st, 2011 at 8:59 am
We did a larger bathroom, it cost $10k labor and around $15k materials such as fixtures, glass shower exclosures, tiles, etc. It was a big job but not over the top. Footprint was probably 10×15.
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That is a big bathroom.
Im talking basic city house bathroom.
Flip Tiles, Vanity, Fixtures and Toilet for $3K using Home Depot materials.
It looks good when its done too. maybe 2.5 days of work.
It is, and had over 300 sq ft of tile (walk in shower walls, ceilings, etc drove part of that), so it isn’t super representative of a small city bathroom. I’d figure 5k for what you were talking.
I know someone who spent 40k renovating their bathroom in the burbs
who cares
“who cares”
sonies – you are missing the point. basically, people get on this site and grossly underestimate the time and money it takes to rehab/renovate. this could lead to some very very bad decision making. For example, if a house needed 2-3 bathrooms to be totally renovated and someone thought it would take 6-9k and then bought a place based on that estimate, they could be screwed when they realize the cost is MUCH closer to 25-30k for the 3 bathrooms.
It always takes more time and $ than people estimate. More if you hire quality contractors. Also, people do not think of important things like whether their GC carries appropriate insurance. Last thing you want is a WC subrogation claim against your homeowners policy. Though this doesn’t show up in the workmanship it shows that a contractor is a f’ing professional who runs a tight ship. That doesn’t come at zero cost.
Did this sell? They had an estate sale over the weekend.
“Did this sell?”
RF sez pending with last list of $575:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2955-W-Eastwood-Ave-60625/home/13489213
Thanks anon.
Sold for $550,000