Selling a Lofty Townhouse 9 Years Later in Lincoln Park: 2222 N. Racine
This 3 bedroom loft style townhouse at 2222 N. Racine in Lincoln Park has been on and off the market since June 2009.
In those 20 months, it has been reduced $90,000.
At 2100 square feet, it has 16 foot high ceilings in the living room along with exposed brick and some timber ceilings.
The custom kitchen has soapstone counter tops and stainless steel appliances.
There are 2 master suites with the top floor bedroom leading to the roofdeck.
All three bedrooms are, however, on different floors.
The townhouse has a 2 car attached garage and central air.
Located near the shops/restaurants on Webster, is this townhouse now priced to sell?
Ivona Kutermankiewicz at Koenig & Strey Real Living has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #13: 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 2100 square feet, 2 car parking
- Sold in May 1992 for $274,000
- Sold in April 1995 for $325,000
- Sold in June 1998 for $380,000
- Sold in May 2002 for $485,000
- Originally listed in June 2009 for $689,000
- Reduced
- Was listed in January 2011 for $615,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $599,000
- Assessments of $281 a month (includes cable)
- Taxes of $5120
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer
- Bedroom #1: 17×13 (third floor)
- Bedroom #2: 16×12 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 14×9 (main)
Someone westwardly inclined gets a great deal at $525k.
$399,000.
My buyer offered 525k last January and was not countered. He bought something else. Generaly speaking, the waiting strategy has not proved to work in terms of preserving value.
Executed Recorded Document Type Amount
05/15/2002 06/07/2002 MORTGAGE $388,000.00
Executed Recorded Document Type Amount
02/15/2006 03/16/2006 MORTGAGE $480,000.00
Traders are gamblers by nature, always holding out for more profits, bigger payouts.
“Generaly speaking, the waiting strategy has not proved to work in terms of preserving value”
Truer words have not been spoken here.
Looks like a new (or refreshed) kitchen and master bath since ’02.
They would have been better off getting ~$550 from MGG’s client last year.
@Matt, what was it listed at when your client offered $525k? Was there no dialog between you and the seller’s agent? Don’t you realtors have a vested interest in playing nice with one another?
Not my cup of tea, but it is pretty nice for people who like town home layout (I don’t, I like open spaces). I guess minimal improvements like changing counter tops in the kitchen and the bath are needed.
BTW, when I look at agents listing, I understand that it has only one parking spot. Am I reading it wrong? Also how did you find out what is included in the assessment? For those of you who think town homes and SFH are cheaper to maintain, look at the assessment. It seems one pays nearly $300 alone for no amenities (pool, gym, doorman) and it does nor cover the utilities (mostly heat and electricity).
Are those ceilings upstairs seven feet? Yikes.
@Icarus, something similar happened to us too on another property of course. It is ultimately the seller and buyer who decide what they are offering. Agents can only help so much. In fact, our realtor told us that the seller is being unreasonable and no point negotiating further.
Icarus-
I would have to pull file but I think $674,900. Sometimes expectations of parties are too far apart to do anything. Happens all the time.
MGG
This seller must not be interested in actually selling the place if there was no counter-offer to $525,000. They could have at least said $590,000. So stupid to play the waiting game, and what a waste of time for the realtors.
the framed lebron jersey should really help
miumiu, the MLS information shows what is included in the assessments. I agree that info isn’t consistent with respect to parking, though, as it says two spaces are included but then that a second one is available.
Looks nice, but would have to come down at least $100k to make it even worthwhile to look at. This will hit my search at $475,000 — how long before it gets there?
Btw — not crazy about the condo ownership & $300 assessments
I hate cable, only satellite for me, but $281 is actually pretty cheap given that is includes cable, exterior maintenance/lawn care, snow removal, water and insurance. It costs money to maintain that nice courtyard.
wait – how can you guys see the pictures – is there another link?
“wait – how can you guys see the pictures – is there another link?”
It’s a thing called “Google” 🙂
This would need a pretty unique buyer – I think 3 bedrooms on 3 floors is less than ideal for a family. I guess you can call the bathroom with a tub, no shower, a full bath, but you lose a lot of functionality without the shower. No guest likes to take a bath at someone’s house.
I really like the neighborhood so I think that the seller is finally getting within at least a reasonable range where you could have a meaningful negotiation between a buyer and a seller…
As a buyer/soon-to-be-seller in this market, I think that pricing is a huge problem. You have people who are being realistic about what they will get for their place and you have the same person who has a similar property priced at an out of touch price. The problem comes when you get today’s buyer who wants a huge discount/deal on a place. It really doesn’t reward the realistic seller when all he’s going to get are low balls. Just my take on the situation.
Clio, I went to realtor’s website and saw the photos there. BTW, her website for the listing is terrible as it has almost no info. On the positive note, she is cute : )
@ JJJ, Can anyone access the MLS? I thought only agents or people with special accounts could.
“…I think that pricing is a huge problem. You have people who are being realistic about what they will get for their place and you have the same person who has a similar property priced at an out of touch price. The problem comes when you get today’s buyer who wants a huge discount/deal on a place. It really doesn’t reward the realistic seller when all he’s going to get are low balls…”
All depends on what “realistic” is. Expecting a 20% profit over 2002 price (let alone a 40% profit) is totally unrealistic. I won’t get the whole CSI debate going again, but Lincoln Park is essentially the same neighborhood it was 10 years ago — no notable declines or improvements in quality of life. There’s no indication that this guy got a screamin deal on the place when he bought in 2002, nor are there big $ improvements to the property (as far as we can tell). Why should we pay him $100k more? So he can pay off his overvalued refi and give him a 5-figure check at closing?
There seems to be a disproportionate number of Lincoln Park homeowners who can’t let go of their delusions of getting rich quick and easy.
“@ JJJ, Can anyone access the MLS? I thought only agents or people with special accounts could.”
Many websites, e.g. Redfin, reprint the listed data (to the extent that they’re permitted to do so), so you can find it there. You might be required to create a free account and log in, I can’t remember.
“There seems to be a disproportionate number of Lincoln Park homeowners who can’t let go of their delusions of getting rich quick and easy.”
I agree – I think that it’s because many buyers there relied on a herd mentality to buy in Lincoln Park – “It’s where people like you should buy, and you will always be able to sell your place easily with 5-10% annual appreciation.” – and they haven’t been able to shake that belief despite all the evidence to the contrary.
And I’m sure they would like the profit from this unit to fund a part of the down payment for their next home. They’d still recover their down payment at sale but for the cashout refi in 2006.
It’s amazing what happens to property prices when the down payment pozni scheme comes to an end. It means buyers actually have to earn, save or inherit a down payment rather than simply the appreciation from the first home to fund the down payment on the move-up. It gives regular folks like us a chance to entirely skip the starter home phase and go straight to teh move up property with a saved, earned or inherited downpayment in hand.
Looks like the bottom of the timber beams are at about 7′, with the ‘ceiling’ at 8′. Not a dealbreaker, just watch your head during bed Olympics.
Having gas included in the assessments, even if that meant another $50-75, would be nice with the high ceilings in the living room (assuming GFA.) My place currently has 18′ ceilings throughout, but since gas is included in assessments, I don’t mind trying to heat the place.
Agreed that this person is kicking them self for not taking that offer. Good neighborhood with a nice park across the street and some awesome cupcakes around the corner.
HD: I realize you’re not about to unseat Harvey Miller, but you are an attorney in private practice…not exactly on the path of most “regular folks.”
“HD: I realize you’re not about to unseat Harvey Miller, but you are an attorney in private practice…not exactly on the path of most “regular folks.””
Uh-oh, now we get an HD rant about how he knows that and what are the *actual* regular folks supposed to do if someone like him has a tough time affording something decent.
Anon(tfo)n what are the regular folks supposed to do?
“t’s amazing what happens to property prices when the down payment pozni scheme comes to an end.”
This is why our government will not pull the rug out from under FHA. They know the sausage loans are coming from there these days and I think they’re something like 40% of the market currently of mortgaged purchases.
Shiller is predicting an additional drop of 15-25%. Taking the middle ground of that from Chicagoland’s current level of 117.9 yields 94.29, the exact number I’ve been predicting.
These people on here pumping higher RE valuations have been comical over the years and proven wrong time and time again. Its almost like they’re living in a fantasy land or maybe just incapable of critical thinking.
“I’m sure they would like the profit from this unit to fund a part of the down payment for their next home.”
Is there anything intrinsically wrong with that? Isn’t that the way it was always done?
“It means buyers actually have to earn, save or inherit a down payment rather than simply the appreciation from the first home to fund the down payment on the move-up. ”
Isn’t the issue that it usually takes longer and the bubble caused irregular jumps in the natural time table?
“It gives regular folks like us a chance to entirely skip the starter home phase and go straight to teh move up property with a saved, earned or inherited downpayment in hand”
I’m not sure I understand this last one…are you saying that we regular folks can skip the starter home and go straight to the move-up property because move-up property prices are falling?
“Taking the middle ground of that from Chicagoland’s current level of 117.9 yields 94.29, the exact number I’ve been predicting.”
I’m pretty sure that someone would remember, Bob, if you made a prediction to two sig digits. Are you using a [redacted]-esque definition of “exactly”?
“Is there anything intrinsically wrong with that? Isn’t that the way it was always done?”
Yes, it means that people like them are still able to pay more for houses HD likes than HD is willing to pay for them, thus further delaying HD’s purchase. Isn’t that what “intrinsically” means?
“Anon(tfo)n what are the regular folks supposed to do?”
They’re f’d, but that’s the whole economic cycle, not just the housing bubble. Fed government is spending ~$30k/household this year, with total debt of well over $100k/household. Regular folks are f’d.
Only access to top master bedroom is thru spiral staircase. Asked the agent how they got furniture to top bdrm and they had to use pulley system. What a p.i.a
Whoa, HD’s not Harvey Miller? I heard that when Harv was busy with the Lehman BK, a chicago firm was in discussions with Goldman and Morgan Stanley – gotta assume that was HD’s firm.
Are these townhomes all different? I looked up the address and the 2 most recent sales (that I could find) are:
#5 sold for $865,500 on 9/18/08
#11 sold for $361,000 on 8/27/07
Nice park across the street, but I don’t know that I love the courtyard set up of this place.
“I’m pretty sure that someone would remember, Bob, if you made a prediction to two sig digits. Are you using a [redacted]-esque definition of “exactly”?”
Yeah I said 94-95ish. So I will take this opportunity to congratulate Shiller to finally coming around towards my prediction and engage in a bit of self-aggrandizement. 😀
“Are these townhomes all different? I looked up the address and the 2 most recent sales (that I could find) are:
#5 sold for $865,500 on 9/18/08
#11 sold for $361,000 on 8/27/07
Nice park across the street, but I don’t know that I love the courtyard set up of this place.”
This was the chatter about #5
http://cribchatter.com/?p=1534
I looked at this place last year around the beginning of the year. It was a little cute. I love soapstone. But, it was tight. I felt smooshed everywhere I went.
The one bedroom sort of hangs out on a level by itself. It is really more of an office.
And, there is a spiral staircase up to the top floor (master) where the deck is. I couldn’t imagine bringing a tray of food up there. And, I don’t want my friends traipsing thru my bedroom to go outside.
Compared to what else we looked at, it was way over priced.
I don’t remember exactly, but I thought there was one spot and another for an additional fee.
“This was the chatter about #5
http://cribchatter.com/?p=1534”
I had to laugh that there were 2 comments to that post! We’ve come a long way. I’m in awe that someone listed that place for $919K and that someone paid $865K for it.
I like this place a lot, it is very unique. But as I have said before unique homes appeal to unique buyers and can be very difficult to sell, especially if the seller expects everyone who sees it to appreciate each special nuance.
I might buy this place for $465k, but this should fetch the $525k offered previously.
“Yeah I said 94-95ish.”
I thought you were into the 80s, or maybe you gave a range. (Taking the lower end of shiller’s predicted range would get you there though.) Don’t have time to search right now.
here, miumiu,
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2222-N-Racine-Ave-60614/unit-13/home/13353865
Bob I’ve been saying low 80’s to the 90’s all along too. Probably since my first or second post here. Everyone laughed at us, called us fools, charlatans, or worse. Woe has been us to express our opinion on the misery of the housing market. Now we enjoy the schadenfreude as Shiller confirms what we’ve been saying all along. I feel sympathy for those trapped underwater, or those in foreclosure or other in other various forms of financial distress. However the world will still turn, but both our children and our grandchildren will enjoy more affordable housing as a result of this fiasco for generations to come.
And if everything goes as planned, a rowhouse in east lincoln park should sell for no more than $150,000 or $200,000 with a late 90’s kitchen.
just kidding!!!
Thank you Logansquarean. I wonder why the listing agent does not bother to put the information on her website as well.
FYI Jon the FULL bath is truly a full bath WITH a shower…obviously you have not seen it in person. Also I was told by the agent that the seller put in over $100,000 for a gut rehab…and you can tell! They are clearly not looking to make $100,000 profit especially in this era of selling. I have seen the place in person and it’s lovely, the floor plan just didn’t work for us!
I’m the listing agent for this home. There seems to be a lot of confusion and misconceptions on several issues which I wanted to clarify:
1. There are 2 parking spots available with this unit – a deeded garage spot included in the price and an additional garage spot available for rent
2. The assessment of $285 includes common insurance, water, common electric, snow removal, landscaping, management and cable as well as reserves for capital improvements in the future. As a comparison, many buildings that keep assessments artificially low have to come up with additional special assessment funds for any work needed on the common elements.
3. Current homeowners purchased the property for $485,000 in 2002. They completely gutted and rehabbed the unit with the highest quality materials. Anyone with basic knowledge of construction will realize that cost of this type of a project can run anywhere from $100,000 to $200,000; hence, speculations as to 20-40% returns are baseless.
4. For all the doomsayers: based on the data from Multiple Listing Service the average sale price of a 3 bedroom condo in Lincoln Park has increased from $580,000 in January of 2010 to $607,000 in February of 2011. The median price unit went from $536,000 to $660,000. At $599,900 this Lincoln Park condo is a great value.
5. Finally, I would like to extend an invitation to visit this great condo. We are looking for ready, willing and able buyers. Let’s make a deal!
I love when real estate agents come on here and talk down to us.
That #4 is applicable to this unit how, exactly?
Was it ever not a “great value” to the listing agent?
As to your points:
1. There are 2 parking spots available with this unit – a deeded garage spot included in the price and an additional garage spot available for rent
Typical bait and switch. There is 1 space available, and one extra that you can pay extra for (by that logic why not just say there are 10 spaces available. This is a great deal…btw 1 comes with the place and you can rent out the other 9.)
2. The assessment of $285 includes common insurance, water, common electric, snow removal, landscaping, management and cable as well as reserves for capital improvements in the future. As a comparison, many buildings that keep assessments artificially low have to come up with additional special assessment funds for any work needed on the common elements.
I think this is pretty reasonable for assessments.
3. Current homeowners purchased the property for $485,000 in 2002. They completely gutted and rehabbed the unit with the highest quality materials. Anyone with basic knowledge of construction will realize that cost of this type of a project can run anywhere from $100,000 to $200,000; hence, speculations as to 20-40% returns are baseless.
This isn’t the mid 2000’s. Nobody cares how much an owner put into it. It’s all about what the property is worth NOW.
4. For all the doomsayers: based on the data from Multiple Listing Service the average sale price of a 3 bedroom condo in Lincoln Park has increased from $580,000 in January of 2010 to $607,000 in February of 2011. The median price unit went from $536,000 to $660,000. At $599,900 this Lincoln Park condo is a great value.
Who cares? There are so many subsets that one could carve out of this data. I would hardly call this a great value at 600k. That’s laughable. But if you can get it, more power to you.
I see this one going for $500,000 at best. T