Short Sale Alert on a 3-Bedroom Duplex Up: 1310 W. Fletcher in Lakeview
Many buyers are eager to own a 3-bedroom duplex up such as this one at 1310 W. Fletcher in Lakeview versus the more common, and usually cheaper, duplex down.
Recently, it seems like there have been more of the duplex ups on the market.
This top floor unit has hardwood floors throughout and two outdoor spaces, including what looks to be a rooftop deck.
Built in 1998, it has some features you don’t find in the more recent construction including 3 bathrooms (instead of 2) and 2 car parking (instead of 1.)
The kitchen has stainless steel appliances and granite countertops.
The master bedroom is on the second floor, along with a small den.
On and off the market since January, it has now been reduced $95,000 and is a “short sale.”
Is this a deal?
Nancy Lundquist at Jameson has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #3E: 3 bedrooms, 3 baths, no square footage listed, 2 car parking
- Sold in September 1999 for $409,000
- Listed in January 2010 for $545,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed as a “short sale” for $449,900
- Assessments of $218 a month
- Taxes of $6442
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 14×13 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 13×11 (first floor)
- Bedroom #3: 16×14 (first floor)
- Den: 14×8 (second floor)
This seems like a very good deal – IF the bank accepts the offer. However, I just can’t help to think that this area is not that great. I know that many people (for whatever idiotic reason) like these types of areas (as opposed to the G.C., L.P, O.T., Loop, east L.V.) but I just cannot forget what these areas were like 30 years ago and would be afraid that, with the economy the way it is, that these types of neighborhoods may revert back to the way they were. Seriously, the neighborhoods were horrible- one our maids lived near here and sometimes we would have to drop her off and it was terrifying driving throught this area at night.
Also, I think that if people are looking long term (considering children’s education,etc.) they might be better off looking in the suburbs. The people who are looking long term in the city are usually going to be either gay, widows/widowers, empty-nesters, wealthy suburbanites looking for a pied-a-terre, or single douchebags. The majority of these types of people are not going to be looking in this area.
I think the neighborhood is very good actually, as Southport area prices have held up better than other parts of Lakeview. Not sure if this is in the Blaine school district though, so that may hurt this. It has really changed from 8-10 years ago. The unit looks nice as well for that price, but am uncertain if the bank would accept any offer lower than the ask. I’m assuming the current owners who bought in 1999, refinanced and pulled out some equity during the boom, which is why it now would be a short sale.
wow, it is official. this clio character is some high school kid from New Trier. he/she/it thinks that if youre not in the burbs, or in an expensive part of the city, you will get shot/raped. good deal, family neighborhood, very safe area……………..
“…I just cannot forget what these areas were like 30 years ago…”
Well 30 years ago (1980) was the absolute bottom for this neighborhood and many others in Chicago. 40 years ago this was a nice quiet German/Polish working class neighborhood as was most of Lakeview. 200 years ago it wouldn’t be safe because you’d have to watch for Indian attacks…
Be real and use relevant time periods for points of reference. Fearing that a decent spot in Logan Square might slip is reasonable. If you fear the same about neighborhoods that have been stable for 20+ years, you might as well hunker down in a cave and wait for the collapse of civilization…
…but of course those in Oakbrook or the North Shore never need worry…
The strange thing that I have noticed in these 6 unit buildings with the duplex up and duplex down is that
the duplex up units are supposedly more desirable than duplex down units (as reflected in the prices) but
I see more short sales on the duplex up units than on duplex down units.
“Be real and use relevant time periods for points of reference.”
I agree – but look at the beautiful large homes built around Garfield park, Hyde park, Kenwood, Wicker park, etc. – those areas experienced such a tremendous downfall from their heyday. Compare them to homes in the more more central areas (gold coast, streeterville, some parts of old town and lincoln park) – those areas have always been expensive and desireable. I am not predicting that this particular area (?west lakeview) will turn into slums, BUT one does have to be a little more careful about where they buy because the areas that are going to go down first and fastest are these areas that are less established than the “gold standards”. That being said, this area is probably more stable than several other areas in chicago.
“Not sure if this is in the Blaine school district though, so that may hurt this .”
It’s not in Blaine. And it’s south of Belmont; is that still considered the Southport Corridor?
“I just cannot forget what these areas were like 30 years ago and would be afraid that, with the economy the way it is, that these types of neighborhoods may revert back to the way they were.”
Not likely, unless you know of some magic way to bring back manufacturing jobs/factories to the area.
West Lakeview is IMO one of the green zone’s best kept secrets. The thing is you can get a SFH in West Lakeview these days for 450k..(1736 w nelson, mls 07410974). I plan on moving to West Lakeview soon as some of my friends just got a killer deal on rent and their landlord has another unit for let.
I have to agree with Dan on this one…with every comment he makes, clio is revealing himself to be THE biggest and most vile douchebag of CC. I think we all would rather have the ‘old’ Clio back…the 7 car driving, pied a terre living, maid(s) having ficticious poseur.
As much as all the BS he spews wore on our last nerves, during these ‘I am the richest person in Chicago’ rants, he wasn’t as preoccupied with degrading those he ‘thinks’ are lesser people than he is.
It does not put CC in a postive light, esp after the recent publicity the site has receivced, to have the few active and serious Chicago buyers referred to in such a negative way.
Over the past month I have noticed several new posters who contribute valid opinions and I would hate to think they will be negatively impacted by these uncalled for monikers.
IMO, anyone who is buying or even considering to do so during this depressed time, is far from being a moron, stupid or an idiot.
Just as the market has been stripped of the fraudulent buyers, poor performing agents and other negative industry insiders (greedy builders and flippers) 99% of the ill informed and dishonest buyers have disappeared from the game.
And BTW, had it not been for the ‘gay’ buyers out there, some areas of the city would not have been regentrified to the extent they have been so (fictious) buyers like clio can take advantage of their labor.
So clio, please tone it down when referring to those you THINK are less than you. As you glance down from your Ivory towers on the everyday, more common folk, remember how you feel whenever someone here calls you out for being the fake you really are. If you are who you claim to be, which remains a questionable mystery, your degrading, elitist words can be damaging and are just the opposite of what should be spoken about new to the market buyers…these comments simply are not needed or appreciated.
Oh yeah and this unit isn’t in WLV but central LV…east of Julia’s “SoPo” = CLV in my view. WLV is superior to CLV because you don’t get SoPo idiots like Julia straight from HBS moving there thinking their crap don’t stink. WLV people are more laid back from my observations, and not a bunch of Roscoe Village families with annoying kiddos.
“West Lakeview is IMO one of the green zone’s best kept secrets. The thing is you can get a SFH in West Lakeview these days for 450k..(1736 w nelson, mls 07410974). I plan on moving to West Lakeview soon as some of my friends just got a killer deal on rent and their landlord has another unit for let.”
With no interior pix and the “rehab or build new” + as-is disclaimer in the listing, that’s valuing the land at something over $375k, probably over $400k–how can you consider that a good deal Bob? If you’re right about land values, then that dump should be *well* under $300k.
Regarding this unit, yes I think it is a great deal for the features you will receive. To borrow our clio’s favorite phrase, ‘someone will be lucky to live here.
While duplexes in buildings such as this get a bad rap here, this one is the exception to the rule. There are some great features for the price…the ceilings, the overlook, the two car parking, rooftop deck, etc.
Good luck to anyone interested in buying it as short sales *usually* are a nightmare to deal with. I am not sure if this is true in Chicago, but I know in Florida the Industry has banded together to make this buying process a more streamlined and easier one to navigate. Lately most offers that are close to the asking price are readily accepted, whereas in the past it could take up to 6 months+ to even get a rejection.
Since I do not engage in such sales because of all the hurdles…even all cash sales, I base my concerns about them solely on what I hear through conversations with others.
This area is DEFINATELY not a dangerous one. We renovated several properties on the blocks around this unit, my brother’s company has done the same and we have plans on focusing primarily on it once we return this fall.
Besides being a good and getting better hood, the best deals we found were in this area. We would not have invested so heavily in it had I felt there was a slight chance of it being a ‘bad area’.
“I am not predicting that this particular area (?west lakeview) will turn into slums, BUT one does have to be a little more careful about where they buy because the areas that are going to go down first and fastest are these areas that are less established than the “gold standards”. That being said, this area is probably more stable than several other areas in chicago.”
So it is or it isn’t a good area? Like most of your comments once you are called out on them, you seem to backtrack and change your opinion.
As far as ‘hoods ‘turning into slums’ (LOL) that conversion takes decades. And it does not *generally* happen to areas that were once questionable, then went through the regent process to be desirable to the point that buyer invest in them for long term, owner occupied properties.
clio you are dead wrong about this neighborhood… absolutely beautiful and one of the safer hoods in the city
only problem I ever saw when I lived a few blocks from here was random teenage graffitti tagging but other than that this is an amazing place for families
“It’s not in Blaine. And it’s south of Belmont; is that still considered the Southport Corridor?”
It’s in Burley, and proximate to Hawthorne for lottery purposes. No worse than decent location for schools.
The SoPo/Belmont intersection is still SoPoCo to me, so this is close enough to the made up ‘hood to count. It’s almost as close to the SP el stop as it is to the Belmont one, if that matters.
“that’s valuing the land at something over $375k,”
Thats only putting a value on the structure at 75k. I think the structure is worth more than that and that this is more than just a lot for a teardown. Especially if it falls another 25k I think its not a bad deal to spend 425k and maybe another 50k on a gut rehab. Unless I am wildly underestimating rehab costs.
not again with the “Southport Corridor” madness.
someone please explain to me where Wrigleyville ends and “SoPo” (barf) begins. because all of this area actually has LV zoned parking for Cubs games.
sorry, this fake realtor neighborhood reeks of pretension & I can’t stand it. a “corridor” would refer to Southport itself – I’ll even be so generous as to include both sides of the street – period.
I live near here and keep watch on the crime stats each day. Most are nuisance crimes.
The sub-neighborhood (according to the Lake View Citizen’s Council) is South Lakeview.
This is a good price, if it stays this cheap.
“50k on a gut rehab. Unless I am wildly underestimating rehab costs.”
Uh, yeah. Maybe a little. Were you intending to do *all* of the labor yourself?
Or it depends on what you actually mean by “gut rehab”. I’m certain, barring mold issues or complete stripping of the mechanicals (both possible), that you could make the place livable and reasonably nice for $50k. But you’d still have a 1600 sf house with a structure value of maybe ~$200k ($125 psf) and $475k into it–meaning you paid over $275k (and perhaps well over) for the lot.
Wow Clio you are so wrong. Have you ever been here? Recently? If this area is “terrifying” to you then you are pretty easily scared. We prefer living closer to the lake, but we are considering this area because you can get a sfh and still live in the city. It is close to a lot and very walkable, and the (non-major) streets are relatively quiet and tree-lined. This place however is a “McCrap box” (ha) in my opinion. Looks like everything else out there, no soul. But I think this area is quite desirable. And yes -safe- a lot safer that areas of Old Town! And the Loop? Really? I think many people would take this hood over the shuts-down-after-6pm Loop.
I just don’t know what your talking about in this instance, I think you are dead wrong.
Bob – You could spend 50k on that kitchen alone. A relatively luxurious rehab for 3/3 (~2500 sq ft max?) would be closer to 100k.
This is cool and def geared to the family oriented imo. That loft-like area/den would make a perfect kids room (as long as they don’t fall through the railing) or close it off and make a man-cave.
The area is fine.
Sorry guys – I really am not looking “down” on anyone – I just think that there may be better areas in which to buy housing. Sorry, that is my opinion (and I am sure there a millions of people out there who feel the same way)- obviously not shared with anyone on this site.
I really don’t want anyone to feel bad/mad – be happy about where you live/buy and take every comment with a grain of salt!!
“A relatively luxurious rehab for 3/3 (~2500 sq ft max?) would be closer to 100k.”
Sorry but when I think of a place I’d like to live in the future “luxurious” rehab isn’t part of it. Sounds like a lot of CCers want their graniteel and other acoutrements that became common during the boom. That stuff is going to be the shag carpet and wood paneling of our generation. Gaudy.
“Were you intending to do *all* of the labor yourself? ”
Certainly wouldn’t be union labor. And I know my limits regarding handiness so thinking $10/hr general laborers. Remember labor got expensive during the boom due to the demand but these days people are really scrounging for work and hungry.
Anyhow a livable and reasonably nice house for 475k in this part of town I’d consider a good deal even if only 1,600sf. Its obviously not there yet, but close.
Also I find it hilarious that after eleven years of living here not only did this “owner” accumulate no equity in the house they also apparently extracted an additional 40k over their closing price.
This seller lends credence to the theories on this site that there are many sellers simply keeping up with the joneses and living way beyond one’s means. They were likely never entitled to live in a 400k place to begin with but they used crazy leverage and living beyond their means to live in a place like this.
People like this seller deserve a financial comeuppance. They (house as ATM segment) are emblematic of what is wrong with America.
I find the use of the term “DB” repulsive and overused on this site. Could you all please knock it off? There are women who read this site, and I, for one, find that disgusting and offensive. I am sure you can manage a more apt description of those people you feel are beneath you. And before you say, Well, ALT, censorship is bad; if you dont’ like it then just don’t read the site, believe me, with more and more posts, I’m getting there.
“Sorry guys – I really am not looking ‘down’ on anyone”
then you have a funny way of showing it.
W lakeview is a great area and changing. Pockets are being established by families, yeah that’s right, families with kids who can walk and go to (gasp) public school. It is interesting when you look at reports for schools like Jahn and you see that over the past few years test scores have been raising in the lowest grade levels which causes a ripple effect upwards through the years. One of the things I look for being pre-kids abd buying a house is where the schools of the area are heading.
Neighborhoods with families who are staying are seeing active parents who are keeping their kids in the schools and areating a very quiet yet huge change. Yes, blaine is great, so is Audubon and those success stories look like they are having small changes on neighboring districts that are building in concsistency.
So, Clio, please don’t consider this area we don’t need your self-entitled air of superiority tainting our neighborhoods nor do we need it on this message board.
“Also I find it hilarious that after eleven years of living here not only did this “owner” accumulate no equity in the house they also apparently extracted an additional 40k over their closing price.”
Screwy stuff in their record (ie, some stuff that’s likely paid but unreleased, UCCs, a QCD b/t family members, but not Husb to Wife), but the mortgage is $467k, from Feb-04 (WaMu).
IF the rate were 4.5% and IF they’ve been paying the nut all along, they’d owe about $410k today, which wouldn’t be a short sale, unless the other mortgage that I think was probably released (and is senior to WaMu’s) is still unpaid–it was for $300k.
“Pockets are being established by families, yeah that’s right”
Battle lines are being established. We really don’t need WLV turning into RVE. Roscoe Village people are just downright annoying and we don’t need to see those obnoxious double strollers along the streets of WLV.
And also ALT I could care less if you don’t read this site you aren’t entitled to impose your prudish opinion on others. So git!
“So, Clio, please don’t consider this area we don’t need your self-entitled air of superiority tainting our neighborhoods nor do we need it on this message board.”
sorry again – I really don’t mean to “bash” neighborhoods. I DO understand that many people LOVE these areas and appreciate living in these places. My comments are directed at future buyers who have many many choices out there. If a buyer loves this area, good for them. However, if a buyer is looking for a neighborhood that will almost certainly retain value in the future, I would direct them to the G.C., and some areas of L.P., Old town, etc. Please do not take these comments personally as they are not meant to insult any particular person or neighborhood.
I previously lived two blocks east of here and now live 4 blocks west. I think the area is fantastic and this unit is in a great location. It’s a very short walk to southport, close enough to run to the lakefront, easy access to brown/red lines, easy bus to the blue line for the airport, walkable to restaurants on Halsted, Clark, and Lincoln. And just far enough from the issues (for those over 30 y.o.) of Wrigleyville. Also, this area is not zoned parking for the Cubs. Belmont is the southern boundary for that. I would consider this asking price to be very attractive, assuming the building and association are in good shape.
Bob,
Did you notice that the Realtor’s remarks for 1736 said nothing about the actual house?
Everything is about the zoning and land. Something being sold as a tear down is unlikely to benefit from your 50k rehab plans. Also, did you notice that house is tiny, located on the alley (no parking), and , best of all, has been on the market with only a small price reduction, for over 200 days.
This all indicates an overpriced piece of land as opposed to a good deal on a house.
Bob on August 20th, 2010 at 7:54 am
“West Lakeview is IMO one of the green zone’s best kept secrets. The thing is you can get a SFH in West Lakeview these days for 450k..(1736 w nelson, mls 07410974). “
“Battle lines are being established. We really don’t need WLV turning into RVE. Roscoe Village people are just downright annoying and we don’t need to see those obnoxious double strollers along the streets of WLV.”
Made me chuckle Bob – the dualies are awful and I think the whole city is stuck with them! Nearly got run over in old town last week.
I’ve been through here and the floorplan is not all that great. One large back deck is located off of the bigger first floor bedroom, so you’re access would be limited if you actually used that as a bedroom. The second bedroom on the first floor didn’t have a closet though did have an attached bathroom. The 2nd deck off the master (on the 2nd floor) is nice but probably just wouldn’t be used that much. If I had 2 large decks, I’d want them accessible for entertaining, grilling, etc and not have to go through a bedroom to get to them. The 2nd floor den is right in front of the master, so you’d be hard pressed to make this a baby’s room or a man cave as you’ve have to go through it to get into the master bedroom. Price isn’t bad, I just don’t think it has a great layout.
just to make sure I’m understanding this discussion – is there anyone here who really thinks that Lakewood Ave is a boundary for Lake View and West Lakeview?
Because this would be news to a lot of people – not that there’s anything wrong about either neighborhood (although west lv generally implies more distance to a train stop), but Ashland or even Paulina would be a better boundary.
more bland housing for bland people
“clio on August 20th, 2010 at 9:48 am
However, if a buyer is looking for a neighborhood that will almost certainly retain value in the future, I would direct them to the G.C., and some areas of L.P., Old town, etc.”
Old Town? Really? LOL.
“Ashland or even Paulina would be a better boundary.”
The problem with using Paulina is that you’re then left with such a thin slice that it’s almost a meaningless designation. And Ashland’s a big enough physical barrier that it makes a lot of sense.
… and why on earth would any longtime City-dweller (much less those of us who are from these neighborhoods in question) take advice on the long-term outlook from a die-hard suburbanite?
“clio on August 20th, 2010 at 9:48 am
However, if a buyer is looking for a neighborhood that will almost certainly retain value in the future, I would direct them to the G.C., and some areas of L.P., Old town, etc.”
The problem with using Paulina is that you’re then left with such a thin slice that it’s almost a meaningless designation. And Ashland’s a big enough physical barrier that it makes a lot of sense.
yeah, if you’re W of Ashland it’s an easy enough walk but it dies form a barrier Go w East of Ashland
“The problem with using Paulina is that you’re then left with such a thin slice that it’s almost a meaningless designation.”
well, I’d go to Damen, so it’s still a pretty big chunk of real estate, but you certainly have a point.
The biggest reason to use Paulina is you can then use the Millionaire’s Row between Diversey & Wellington as your boundary – and the shopping that’s on the west side of Ashland is ancient and way predates the “west Lakeview” moniker.
“well, I’d go to Damen, so it’s still a pretty big chunk of real estate, but you certainly have a point.”
But then you’re running counter to all of the official designations–that usually carry weight for you–that end at the tracks.
But we’re dangerously close to getting upbraided for hashing minutiae that no one much cares about AND isn’t relevant to this property.
yeah, but it zipped clio up. : )
actually, it is *very* relevant to this property, as no way does West LV carry the same land cost as LV proper.
and I don’t necessarily put any stock in “official” designations for neighborhoods – as often what is at root of them are developers with financial interests – I put weight in metrics that are set in stone like community areas, original township areas, consider overlaps/points of disagreement and go from there.
I’m a neighborhood guy. But what I don’t much care for is the endless divisiveness that comes with every new group’s sparkly new neighborhood name. If the neighborhood has a pretty well-established name, you’ve really got to work hard to convince me it should be changed.
I still can’t believe people accept the term or concept of “west lakeview”.
“I put weight in metrics that are set in stone like community areas”
I was being sloppy. As you know, the Community Area dividing line b/t LV and NC is the rail line. That was what I was tlaking about.
“actually, it is *very* relevant to this property, as no way does West LV carry the same land cost as LV proper.”
Also sloppy–I meant that whether the beginning of WLV was at Ashland or Paulina (or Greenview) doesn’t affect this prop. East of SoPo is *definitely* not WLV.
“I still can’t believe people accept the term or concept of “west lakeview”.”
How do you feel about the concept of East Lakeview or East Lincoln Park?
I’m not necessarily approving any of them, but they are in common usage, and avoid the stupidity of “that’s not ‘real’ LP/LV”
“I still can’t believe people accept the term or concept of “west lakeview”.”
I do because its got a different feel to the area than other parts of Lakeview. Also just found out my friends technically live in what is considered “South Lakeview” because its south of Belmont, which West Lakeview has Belmont as a southern boundary. LOL.
“Don’t go!”
Indeed. There’d be no one left…
like the drama here
“How do you feel about the concept of East Lakeview or East Lincoln Park?”
I’m singling out “west lakeview.”
This is Chicago. The damn lake is to the east. No one thinks of the lake (or a view) when they think of Ashland ave.
Bob, interested to learn of your new home in East North Center (or “the E.N.C.” as the kids say).
“Bob, interested to learn of your new home in East North Center (or “the E.N.C.” as the kids say).”
Its referred to as NorthCostCo here on CC and no, my new home will be in WLV. East North Center is still west of the RR tracks 😛
West Lakeview still retains some of its Lakeview charm like some beer cans strewn about and the occasional younger person passed out on the street corner (which I did phone in an ambulance after he wouldn’t wake but the lucky bastard’s friends got to him first).
I don’t think anon(tfo) and other North CostCo residents would take too kindly to the shenanigans in Lakeview.
“I’m singling out “west lakeview.”
This is Chicago. The damn lake is to the east. No one thinks of the lake (or a view) when they think of Ashland ave.”
And no one thinks of bucks when they think of Bucktown or bridges *or* ports in Bridgeport or birds in Canaryville.
The community area–for better or worse–is LV west to Ravenswood. The township is Lake View west to *Western* (and from North [on the south] to Devon). Both 421 W Melrose and 1721 W Melrose are Lake View, but one is definitely in the eastern part of the hood and one in the western part.
If you prefer to have the “1721 Melrose isn’t *real* LV” argument, that’s fine, but I think it’s *more* tedious than the “what’s the boundary b/t hood x and hood y” arguments.
Why don’t we split it at Ashland, as that used to be the original East/West boundary in the city before the streets were re-numbered.
“I don’t think anon(tfo) and other North CostCo residents would take too kindly to the shenanigans in Lakeview.”
Post-Cubs traffic on summer weekends leads to those shenanigans all along Addison and IPR west to the metra/blue line. girl was passed out down the block earlier this summer–one of the rare times I’ve willingly spoken to a cop on the street.
If you stick with the sub-neighborhood boundaries setup by the LVCC, this is South Lakeview and it extends west and east from the tracks to the west side of Racine. Permit parking starts at Racine.
Also, speaking of the border of Lakeview – on the corner of Barry and Wolcott (NC), there is a $2Mil house for sale. Just up the street in Lakeview at 1726/28 Barry another one is going up.
“Also, speaking of the border of Lakeview – on the corner of Barry and Wolcott (NC), there is a $2Mil house for sale. Just up the street in Lakeview at 1726/28 Barry another one is going up.”
And bunches more.
The short sales in the area are more interesting:
2949 Honore–listed (off/on) since 2005, never been sold, now $799k (short).
1850 Wellington–$799 in ’01; $1.142 in ’05, listed in 08 for 12 months, now listed for $919 (short).
“East of SoPo is *definitely* not WLV.”
I just don’t get “SoPo”- shouldn’t it be “SoCo”?
Why not just go completely ridiculous and name it all after Schuba’s? – Schubaville or something.
For me, my first illicitly purchased beer was at the corner of Belmont & Southport at “Belport” liquors, so I have nothing but praises for at least the surrounding 1/8 of a mile.
““Belport””
We have a winner!
Sounds kinda sketchy and Sout’ Side – I like it!
“yeah, but it zipped clio up. : )”
….I’m still here
…and nothing wrong with that IMO. but you’re talking 100% out-of your-know-what when you start claiming that well-established neighborhoods and their associated economic engines are in danger of going away. If anything is in danger, it’s the Nouveau Riche ticky-tacky suburbs that popped up in the past 15 years.
Listening to people argue about the merits of say, Barrington’s spinoff burbs, now *that* is high comedy.
“Sounds kinda sketchy and Sout’ Side – I like it!”
Is there another larger city–aside from Chicago and LA–where it’s somewhat common to name businesses after sometimes-suspect combinations of the cross-street names?
So “tedious” we can’t resist debating, eh, anon?
City map currently says the intersection of Campbell and Hirsch is “West town” but we do know that’s humboldt. Township map says logan is in Jefferson, but no one says LS is in JP.
I’m actually just advancing Dave M’s point here– west of ashland is a different nabe. You wanna talk WLV, fine, but it can’t possibly be west of ashland.
And, if you’re going to talk to me about “SOPO” I don’t see how it can be west of racine. There can’t be a whole other neighborhood between WLV and LV.
“I’m actually just advancing Dave M’s point here– west of ashland is a different nabe. You wanna talk WLV, fine, but it can’t possibly be west of ashland.”
Okay then what is the neighborhood called that is W of Ashland but E of the tracks? According to neighborhood councils N of Belmont is WLV, S of Belmont is SLV. W of Ashland is indeed part of Lakeview. Lakeview ends at the tracks, or at Western, as anon pointed out. No version of Lakeview ends at Ashland…sorry.
“west of ashland is a different nabe. You wanna talk WLV, fine, but it can’t possibly be west of ashland.”
umm… west lakeview is most definitely west of Ashland, if not a bit further. You won’t find a lot of support for thinking it’s east, those are long established areas.
WLV gets away with the name as although it’s a newer neighborhood designation, much of the area was so industrial up to the 90s that the factories were the defining identity.
or let me put it this way – you always hear the old timers talk about how neighborhoods used to be “over by St.whathaveya”
well, in lake view it was more like “over by the blahblahblah plant” or bar, for that matter.
ok, digging deep here, but anyone remember the Beartrap at SW corner of Racine and George? 1/4 mile south of Fletcher, and a bar right out of the Sin City comics.
Oh yeah and E of SoPo & W of Halsted = Central LV. At least according to some street banner I saw on a streetlight near BCT. Yeah you know you love that place.
“I just don’t get “SoPo”- shouldn’t it be “SoCo”?”
I thought we decided it was “SoPoor” in homage to the snotty East Lincoln Park kids that one poster (sorry, I don’t remember who) overheard discussing a friend who lived on Southport.
“Is there another larger city–aside from Chicago and LA–where it’s somewhat common to name businesses after sometimes-suspect combinations of the cross-street names?”
I don’t know, but I love the street name portmanteaus. Incidentally, El-Mont Liquors at the corner of Elston and Montrose has a) a portmanteau name, b) a classic neon sign and c) an olde tyme phone number listed on the sign: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mss2400/2271813753/
“And, if you’re going to talk to me about “SOPO””
Shorter/easier to type than Southport, and I enjoy how much it annoys some. I don’t think it’s a real neighborhood.
“west of ashland is a different nabe. You wanna talk WLV, fine, but it can’t possibly be west of ashland.”
What ‘hood is it? It ain’t North Center, b/c that doesn’t kick off until west of Ravenswood. I *might* buy into Roscoe Village for Ravenswood-Lincoln from Belmont to Addison, but that still leaves an orphan triangle b/t Lincoln+Ashland (which is very different in feel from across Lincoln.
“So “tedious” we can’t resist debating, eh, anon? ”
Tedious for others; I’m all over it. But I do hate the Stevo-type “that’s not real lincoln park” argument about, for example, the 1300 block of Webster. Altho once you’re west of Ashland, it is sort of not very connected to LP (just like in LV)–hence “West” LP and LV, which are not actual sub-‘hoods, but descriptive markers.
I’s say west lakeview is one block west of Southport to the Ravenswood Metra tracks.
“Incidentally, El-Mont Liquors at the corner of Elston and Montrose has a) a portmanteau name, b) a classic neon sign and c) an olde tyme phone number listed on the sign”
That’s excellent! And hadn’t noticed it before.
Bob- Central Lake View is technically W of Halsted, N of Diversey, E of Racine and S of Belmont. I live there and tell my friends back east that I live in south central.
“What ‘hood is it? It ain’t North Center, b/c that doesn’t kick off until west of Ravenswood.”
I totally know what you mean, but can you really say the area west of Ashland feels more like Lakeview than North Center or RV? I can’t.
Funny how no one here can describe this hood without using the word “Ravenswood”. . .
I do believe that was what the area w of ashland and east of St. Ben’s (skeptic!) was, before NC or RV.
I lived at Racine and Wellington, just about 2-3 blocks away. I loved this area. Though I only live a few blocks north in cookie cutter condo hell area, I wished I lived back near this area.
This place looks great and is close to everything.
“I do believe that was what the area w of ashland and east of St. Ben’s (skeptic!) was, before NC or RV.”
Yeah, pretty much. See this: http://chicago.straightdope.com/sdc20100225.php and the other stuff linked therein.
“I totally know what you mean, but can you really say the area west of Ashland feels more like Lakeview than North Center or RV? I can’t.”
It feels a lil like North Center but much less like Roscoe Village. Beer cans here and there, no families with their strollers everywhere. No little kids running around.
Just jumping into the point about certain neighborhoods retaining their value:
I’ve said this before but my aunt went to DePaul in the mid-1970s. My grandparents were scared to let her go there because the neighborhood was so bad.
Things can change a lot. Lakeview in the 1980s was nothing to talk about. The South Loop Prairie corridor was where the truly rich lived a hundred years ago and then it fell into complete disrepair. You can’t say because the rich live there now, they will be there 50 years from now.
I dunno Sabrina – I went to grade school a few blocks from DePaul in the mid 70s/early 80s. walked to school/biked/took the bus & it wasn’t scary at all. plus, we used to scam free soda at the Lasser’s soda pop factory.
I think Chicago tends to look scarier from the outside than it really is for those living on the inside. Plenty of people in LP who were quite happy, middle class and 2nd, 3rd generation + even in the 70s. the whole “puerto rican ghetto of LP” is one of the most ludicrously overhyped bunches of bs I’ve ever heard. yeah, there were a few small pockets of poorer puerto ricans and some street presence on Armitage, but for the people I knew they were irrelevant to our daily lives.
At the last neighborhood meeting someone talked about how a chicken processing plant almost went up near this place about 30ish years ago.
West of Ashland is Scooter’s custard. Maybe you can come up with a name based on that.
Didn’t Lucido provide THE ultimate neighborhood map a while ago and all of the resident ‘hood experts agreed that it was one map that ALL CCers and RE agents should use as THE reference guide for Chicago?
If I have time over the weekend, I will look for that thread and maybe we could put it in our favorites section so we can refer to it as this debate is a never ending one.
Agree with ALT about the language (DB) used here on occasion, it IS offensive and has no place on a site like this. While we are all adults and it shouldn’t surprise anyone to hear such vulgarity, it certainly is not acceptable in normal civilized conversations.
I will take it one step further to suggest that all name calling….moron, idiot, stupid be included in words that need to be banished from our discussions.
And most importantly….did clio turn in his resignation from posting here any longer? Did the suburban royalty really leave us?
clio, sabrina, et.al.:
The talk of neighborhoods rising and falling on this blog appear to reflect a somewhat incomplete understanding of recent urban history (and let’s face it, ALL of Chicago’s urban history is recent).
Taking into consideration the rapidly escalating pace of our current ‘history’, one has to consider the larger picture: cities such as Chicago or a finite resource in this country. We are not building any new ones lite this due to the commercialization of our planing, so the few that we have will offer an ever increasing value to those that want to live/work/play in any kind of affordable/sustainable way.
Can marginal neighborhoods slide? Of course. Might some neighborhoods never recover? Also, very likely. But in general, understanding where cities have been, which cities have recovered, and considering their likely future trajectory, it would be very unlikely for currently well-established city neighborhoods to decline in any significant way in the future.