Short Sales and Foreclosures Ravage 440 N. Wabash in River North
Foreclosures and short sales continue at some downtown high rises.
We’ve chattered about 440 N. Wabash in River North (next door to Trump Tower) before but the number of owners under stress in the building appears to be growing.
The current stats on the building (out of 457 units):
- 54 for sale (about 12% of the building)
- Of those 54 for sale- 24 are short sales and 2 are foreclosures (or about 50% of those for sale are distress sales)
- 23 for rent
Remember, units can be both for sale AND for rent.
There are so many units in short sale or foreclosure that some listings say “regular sale” or “not a short sale”.
Unit #1106 is in short sale and, the listing says, is among the largest 2-bedroom units in the building at 1325 square feet. It has hardwood floors (some others have carpeting) and a washer/dryer in the unit.
The listing also says it is a “98% approved short sale” and “do not come in under list price.”
The unit has been reduced $124,900 since it was first listed in September 2008.
Parking is included in the price.
Is this a “deal” in River North?
Michael Cuevas at Parkvue Realty Corporation has the listing. See the interior pictures here.
Unit #1106: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1325 square feet, 1 car parking
- Sold in January 2005 for $383,000 (included the parking)
- Originally listed in September 2008 for $399,900
- Reduced numerous times (including once each of the last 3 weeks)
- Currently listed as a “short sale” at $275,000 (parking included)
- Assessments of $581 a month
- Taxes of $4665
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Central Air
Is it just me or do all of the “short sale” listings lately say “buyer financing fell through!”.
Also I’m laughing at the fact they think they can say “do not come in under list price”. Good luck with that and reducing it further in another 3 weeks.
Sabrina,
This building is not next door to Trump. That is 405 Wabash. I think you have the two of them confused.
440 Wabash is about 1 block away.
“98% Approved Short Sale”
WTF does that mean? Its either 100% or 0% approved… because you said in the last part of the stupid capslock rant;
“SUBJECT TO LENDER APPROVAL.Do not come in under list price”
Reason they don’t want you to come in under list price is because that then cuts out the realtor’s commission.
damn good $/sqft deal though. You’re in a primo location too a block from a jewel, close to the lake/river, red line, walk to the loop. Off of state St. Assessments are pretty high but its got a gym and pool so that’s why.
If I was still looking for a place to live I’d for sure check this place out. Someone will snatch this one up fast since its cash flow positive (or at least close).
Insane taxes & assessments are going to be what kills valuations on these units as much as any stuck flipper. Who wants to sign up for a second mortgage in the form of taxes and assessments? Not me.
I believe that this is another Americian Invesco conversion.
Yes, it is Invesco conversion from a couple of years ago
“Someone will snatch this one up fast since its cash flow positive (or at least close).”
Anyone who snatches this up fast will have failed to take into account the declining rental market, especially in a distressed building such as this.
First time buyers and “investors” are the easiest marks today.
“I believe that this is another Americian Invesco conversion.”
nevermind then! pass.
“Anyone who snatches this up fast will have failed to take into account the declining rental market, especially in a distressed building such as this.”
Good point G.
oh, i thought this was the building with the MacDonalds in it.
Pass!
Bob on April 7th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Insane taxes & assessments are going to be what kills valuations on these units as much as any stuck flipper. Who wants to sign up for a second mortgage in the form of taxes and assessments? Not me.
I continue to be mystified by the number of people who fail to take taxes and assessments into account when computing the price of a condo.
What happens to assessments in a building with a large number of distressed sales? The costs get eaten by any remaining solvent owners — in this kind of building in particular, the assessments are a bomb sitting right in the FB’s lap.
I called to see this unit and the broker said it was “spoken for.” I am wondering if it is an inside job…as it was not showing under contract on the MLS. Thoughts?
Isn’t there anyone who wants to buy a condo in Chicago who isn’t an investor or a first-time buyer?
The high taxes and HOA fees may relate in part to the three parking spaces. Why so many?
What did these units rent for ten years ago? Anyone remember?
The taxes may come down (almost certainly will if you claim the owner’s exemption), but those assessments *are* killer.
Reversing Stevo’s back-of-napkin value estimation, at $275k, this place should rent for a little under $2k/month.
“Isn’t there anyone who wants to buy a condo in Chicago who isn’t an investor or a first-time buyer?”
Steve A: the market you described are renters that either a) are current owners and need to sell their place first or b) were former owners at some point in the past and now renters.
a) is exceedingly small as sales are very slow.
b) is exceedingly small as well as our society tends to place some sort of social significance of “ownership” and owners would probably consider renting taking a step down social-mobility wise and our tax code punishes such people (owning to renting).
Some people were lucky/shrewd enough to sell during the peak years and rent ever since, but I think they are few and far between due to the tax issues.
Essentially our tax code and various government agencies only encourages real estate speculation on the upside and not the downside. So a huge super bubble was blown with few checks and balances along the way.
$581 for assessments is pretty brutal. More than 3x what I’m paying. But, then again, my building doesn’t have a gym, pool or elevator.
3 parking spaces for a 2 bed is a little excessive, eh? Especially in river north. Anyone know what you could sell one or 2 of those spots for? I also wonder about the view if it’s facing directly south, right into the new Trump tower.
And yet… I can see $275K hitting a sweet spot with some people… someone who isn’t taking taxes/assessments into account, perhaps. To some, units under $300K appear “affordable.” Under $300K just outside the loop might be too sweet for a buyer’s ego to pass up…
You could easily rent those parking spaces (if they are garaged and if the association lets you) for $150 a month each, and that’s on the low end.
But pools and crappy gyms kill assessments. I wonder if any bills are included? Probably heat/water?
***What did these units rent for ten years ago? Anyone remember?***
Back in 2000, I looked to rent @ 440 (pre-conversion)…rents were
studio = $1100-ish
1 BR = $1500-ish
2 BR = $1800-ish.
Is the Trump basement flooding from all the blood in the street?
Unit # — Closed Date— Sold Pr — CAGR
407 — 2/28/2005 — $291,600 —
407 — 2/29/2008 — $210,000 — -10.36%
408 — 2/25/2005 — $329,500 —
408 — 4/28/2008 — $229,900 — -10.73%
509 — 3/3/2005 — $398,300 —
509 — 10/26/2006— $351,000 — -7.38%
608 — 2/23/2005 — $329,500 —
608 — 6/10/2008 — $434,900 — 8.79%
609 — 3/3/2005 — $397,800 —
609 — 11/14/2008— $315,000 — -6.11%
705 — 2/24/2005 — $373,900 —
705 — 9/11/2008 — $280,000 — -7.83%
907 — 2/28/2005 — $316,500 —
907 — 1/29/2009 — $195,000 — -11.63%
1009 — 3/9/2005 — $405,800 —
1009 — 6/12/2008 — $354,000 — -4.10%
1011 — 7/23/2005 — $201,600 —
1011 — 11/30/2007— $164,000 — -8.39%
1508 — 2/25/2005 — $367,300 —
1508 — 12/30/2008— $235,000 — -10.97%
1607 — 2/28/2005 — $307,900 —
1607 — 9/29/2006 — $300,000 — -1.63%
1711 — 3/9/2005 — $231,800 —
1711 — 9/28/2005 — $255,000 — 18.72%
1711 — 2/26/2009 — $130,000 — -17.91%
1808 — 2/22/2005 — $369,800 —
1808 — 6/10/2008 — $434,900 — 5.04%
1809 — 2/23/2005 — $448,800 —
1809 — 10/17/2008— $414,900 — -2.13%
2308 — 2/23/2005 — $374,300 —
2308 — 5/12/2006 — $325,000 — -10.99%
2411 — 2/28/2005 — $439,300 —
2411 — 11/14/2005— $405,000 — -10.83%
2501 — 2/28/2005 — $277,300 —
2501 — 12/30/2008— $186,000 — -9.89%
2506 — 2/22/2005 — $489,100 —
2506 — 4/11/2006 — $468,000 — -3.82%
2709 — 2/28/2005 — $461,300 —
2709 — 3/24/2006 — $483,000 — 4.41%
2805 — 2/24/2005 — $440,400 —
2805 — 7/18/2005 — $540,000 — 67.72%
2809 — 3/3/2005 — $461,800 —
2809 — 3/9/2005 — $461,800 — 0.00%
3102 — 2/21/2005 — $208,800 —
3102 — 1/23/2009 — $140,000 — -9.69%
3103 — 2/21/2005 — $252,900 —
3103 — 10/3/2005 — $255,000 — 1.36%
3202 — 7/28/2005 — $209,300 —
3202 — 7/14/2008 — $135,000 — -13.76%
3603 — 7/15/2005 — $447,800 —
3603 — 4/30/2007 — $670,000 — 25.24%
3603 — 3/13/2009 — $305,000 — -34.35%
3606 — 2/25/2005 — $564,500 —
3606 — 5/16/2008 — $365,000 — -12.67%
3703 — 2/23/2005 — $350,660 —
3703 — 3/1/2005 — $303,300 — -99.99%
4002 — 2/23/2005 — $362,200 —
4002 — 5/22/2007 — $261,900 — -13.48%
4202 — 3/1/2005 — $392,400 —
4202 — 10/22/2008— $435,000 — 2.87%
4204 — 7/28/2005 — $390,500 —
4204 — 7/21/2008 — $276,000 — -10.99%
4408 — 3/3/2005 — $410,900 —
4408 — 5/22/2007 — $243,000 — -21.09%
4408 — 8/9/2007 — $299,900 — 164.51%
4603 — 2/23/2005 — $379,200 —
4603 — 1/30/2008 — $271,900 — -10.72%
4605 — 2/25/2005 — $484,900 —
4605 — 2/8/2008 — $365,000 — -9.18%
4606 — 2/22/2005 — $592,100 —
4606 — 5/15/2008 — $480,000 — -6.30%
4909 — 3/3/2005 — $509,300 —
4909 — 11/6/2008 — $361,100 — -8.92%
I’ll bet my left nut that the unit comes with 1 parking space. The garage itself is classified as a 3+ spot garage.
Probably an idiosyncrisy of the way that CB’s site shows the listing.
“And yet… I can see $275K hitting a sweet spot with some people… someone who isn’t taking taxes/assessments into account, perhaps. To some, units under $300K appear “affordable.” Under $300K just outside the loop might be too sweet for a buyer’s ego to pass up…”
Of course. Because owning is still a status symbol to many and when you’re out BBQing with your other home loaner friends the topic of monthly nut doesn’t come up, instead they’ll brag about the price they got it for. They’ll also brag about the super low rate. To their friends for all outward appearances they’ll project that they’re happy and content and it will reinforce to them they’ve made a great decision, even if financially they haven’t.
Redfin shows one parking space. And though this realtor is clearly no rocket scientist, if the unit came with 3 spots, you can be damned sure he’d put it in the narrative of the ad, as that would be a huge draw for many buyers.
What building is that G? Trump, or this one?
I know a person who bought a home in the oak park/river forest area that cost nearly a million dollars and bragged about it a few years ago. Business has slowed considerably in the last three years and now this person is begging the bank for a loan mod. It’s all about outward appearances. Pimp my ride and mtv cribs wouldn’t exist but for our bling bling spend all you have attitude so prevalent in society.
Is there a way of finding out on my own how healthy an HOA is or will the bank gladly tell me that when they decline a loan in an unhealthy building? Considering the amount of people that are unable to pay their HOA dues is rising, it would be very useful to know which buildings to avoid. American Invsco buildings are obvious traps; what other buildings are a red flag?
I lived here for 3 yrs. Great place to rent, but why are assesments so high if it is just has a gym, and pool and hot tub (owned/shared by Courtyard)….. garage isn’t even heated…
I rent in this building, and have since 2006.
AC, water, and heat are included in the assessments, along with basic expanded cable. The gym isn’t bad, with about 5 treadmills that are almost a year old, each of which has a built in television. Same with elliptical machines. Good selection of barbell freeweights and a bench press, and a fair amount of nautilus machines.
Regarding selling, I have heard that lenders view these units as somewhat toxic. I don’t know all of the details, other than a vague hint that new owners would be on the hook for some fresh liabilities, whether from assessments or some other means. So that “buyer financing fell through” might not be implausible.
It’s across the street from 405, which is the building with the McDonald’s. I wouldn’t say it’s a full block away from Trump, but yes, it is on the other side of the street.
I’ve liked living here for the convenience of getting downtown and on the red line. For single professionals, this isn’t a bad spot. The harder sell, for me at least, is buying these places. Even if there weren’t any special issues, there’s a bazillion empty condo units that are close to the loop. I’d still be nervous that market is headed for a crash. Eventually, all these developers are going to run out of capital, go belly up, and all those empty units will hit the streets for pennies on the dollar. As rentals, these places make sense. As condos…I don’t think so.
As for me, I’m moving into my first place at the end of the month.
Oh, you could definitely rent the parking spots for about $200/month, each. Although the garage is kind of a pain.
At $275k, with 20% down, and a 4.75% mortgage (generally available), P+I is ~$1150; ~$2200 with T+A. If the taxes can be lowered, it’s probably, after tax benefits, pretty close to the rental price from 2000, per hello.
Still more than Bob wants to pay unless he’s making ~$200k. But there’s no way I’d want to live in a place like this if I made $200k.
Anon (tfo), if this place at about $2,200 isn’t nice enough for someone making about $200K, where do you think is? $2,200 is about what I want to pay, and $200K is about what I make, and I think this place is about the type of place you can generally get for that kind of rent.
Are you saying that $200k in income is necessary to qualify for $2000 PITI?
“Are you saying that $200k in income is necessary to qualify for $2000 PITI?”
No. That $200k income is necessary for $2k to be about 20% of take-home pay.
Lauren, there is a “condo questionnaire” that gets completed on all loans that asks about reserves, # of units in foreclosure, # of investors, # of units late on assessments, liens, etc. If any of those numbers don’t fall in line, the loan will be denied or a larger down payment may be required. You should be able to get the information from the HOA though if you are serious about making an offer on a property.
“No. That $200k income is necessary for $2k to be about 20% of take-home pay.”
What is the significance of 20% of take home pay?
Is that the prescription du jour from the sky-is-falling crowd?
Jeebus, Bradford, read the post you first responded to. It said:
“Still more than Bob wants to pay …”
as the lead in to the $200k thing.
I know. My post wasn’t directed at you…
“Still more than Bob wants to pay unless he’s making ~$200k.”
It could fudge upward if it included good substitutes for what I currently pay for on an a la carte basis. For instance if I could walk to work that would be ~$200 I’d be willing to pay extra (El Pass plus time saved commuting), if it had a nice gym in building that rivaled my luxury gym that would be $75, if it included parking an extra $175, etc. But I think we all know that most included amenities (gym, parking) in a lot of these highrises are way overpriced compared to purchasing them a la carte on the open market. And with a la carte I don’t have the real estate capital risk nor the HOA risk from a distressed building.
This is an Invsco conversion, I remember getting marketing material in the mail from them. They did their typically no assessment for a year or two blah blah, maketing at flippers. Hold for a year or two rent it out (we will even find you a renter) and then flip for a profit. Man these guys are the bad. Stay away, it’s only going to get much worse…….
“Stay away, it’s only going to get much worse…….”
And this one doesn’t even have the Sterling’s advantage of not being a rental building for 15+ years before conversion.
The resale data is for 440 N Wabash. Sorry if it wasn’t clear.
valasko is dead on. This bldg is a long way from stabilizing.
I can’t take it anymore. I have read every financial/real estate blog in the world today and my brain is overloaded. I am selling everything and joining JPUSA in Uptown.
I like Bob’s assessment of a la carte amenities. How much more is it worth to you to not have to worry about paying these monthly bills? Is it the actual paying of a physical bill that they’re charging more for? God knows all of those check-writing carpal tunnel cases that are coming to light in the age of online bill pay…
I used to rent here in 2003-06; Invsco tried to get me to buy but it made no sense whatsoever, so I continued renting from the out-of-country investor.
I rented a high-floor large 1BR for $1375 + $175/mo. for pkg. (Invsco initially wanted $330 + mid-$500/mo. maintenance.) They sold the parking spots separate from the units in the 2005 conversion.
It was an 03 Tier unit–just look at the price changes/losses to other higher-floor 03 units in G’s earlier post to see what a roller-coaster ride this bldg is.
This was a typical Invsco conversion job–guaranteed 2 yr’s rent to the investor, which has ended by now, and hence all the probs.
The association seemed to p*ss a lot of $$$ away on cosmetic changes, too.
Location is awesome–can’t be beat.
The worst thing about this bldg. (besides the management and doormen and shady neighbors) is the fact that tenants share the pool and gym and deck with the attached Marriott Courtyard hotel.
So yes, I guess a chunk of your monthly fees go to heating the pool for a bunch of loud screaming kids from Iowa.
Even for this reason alone, Plaza 440 can never be a serious luxury bldg.
I would love to know what the pending 2% is…
You’re such a yuppie.
Bob on April 7th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
“rivaled my luxury gym that would be $75”
what luxury gyms are 75/mo?
LVAC, LPAC, EAC, WAC. All with corporate discounts. And BTW even if you don’t technically qualify its about 10x easier to procure docs that you do than it is to get a fake ID when you were 19. Not that I needed to, but be creative.
And yeah fullhouse I am in some aspects a yuppie & in others a total working redneck 🙂 No health insurance here but society and your taxes will pay for my ER/clinic visits but a man’s gotta live and be healthy so hence the gym membership.
Oh yeah my latest saga is the tollway referred me to collections for some crap that happened in 2007 in a rental car. I laugh at this as I had a rental car at the time and my license wasn’t even in IL. They even tried to get me to admit my IL license when talking with them on the phone before. LOL I gave them wrong info and they put it on the state form trying to suspend my license–epic fail! I can’t goto jail or lose my license or reg. for nonpayment and I’m not suburban white enough to care about my credit score so that 2k bill is going back to taxpayers.
Thats what so f-cking beautiful about this state as our former gov would say. Theres Fing democrat bleeding heart idiots who vote them in, theres city beneficiaries on the city teet and on the take who vote them in for personal gain, and then theres the citizens like me who know how to cheat the system. And the idiots that vote these jagoffs in are the only ones who play by the rules 🙂
“It’s f-ing valuable!” – Rod B
In the future when you get a ticket for blowing tolls you can just tell them that you had an ipass and didn’t register it or use it in the car at that time. Get a friend who had a transponder prior to your date of violations and all the violations go away and you only have to pay the tolls at full fare (not the 50% less for ipass users since the ipass wasn’t actually being used at the time). Your $2,000 bill would have turned into about a $40 bill and would be a lot easier to deal with than collections and a credit hit. Next time you cheat the system, do it better.
I rented in this building for two years, 2006-2008. It was generally a great place to rent — the owner lived in Arizona and contracted with American Invesco for maintenance, etc. The building is well-maintained, the gym and pool are quite nice (though yes, you share with Marriott Courtyard guests). The location is fantastic, minutes from the loop and the red line. But I wouldn’t buy here — the units themselves feel a bit shabby and I also wonder if the market is going to fall out on older units like these…
I find the idea of shared pool hilarious.
I’m not sure if this is marketed as “luxury” but there is no way you should be able to do that with a pool and gym shared with a hotel.
Although $275k for a small 2 bed isn’t luxury pricing at least.
Anyone looked here lately? Prices are falling through the floor – except for some tools at Wrigley Corp (Mars) asking $60k+ over recent sales prices for units they still own on 33. This building will make a great comeback when the shakeout is over, location, newer (“92), percentage of owner occupied rises, renters decrease – if you have cash you are in a great spot – New York is still ridiculous, Chicago rocks.
OK – no response since my last post but closing on Oct 28th for a high floor 08 tier for $167k – no parking but who cares. Talk about a floor, so you folks looking in this prime building? Here is your floor. Now on to the board to limit rentals to 25% –
“Now on to the board to limit rentals to 25%”
How will you do that when a majority in the building are investors or people who have to move and need to rent it out because they can’t sell and take the steep loss?
Just wondering.
One other question actually- can you get a loan in this building? Or is it all cash purchases only?
Great building, 1 Blk from Michigan Ave – we brought cash and got a high floor 1 BR 900 sqft for $165k – a steal. Save your money, there is another shoe to drop this coming fall when all those modifications come up under default – some people were born to rent, and need to go back renting.
I saw a new listing here on the 49th floor for $440,000. I don’t think reality has hit the owner yet.