Short Sales Now Appearing in New(ish) 565 W. Quincy in the West Loop
This 2-bedroom in 565 Quincy at 565 W. Quincy in the West Loop recently came on the market.
It is listed $86,500 under the 2009 purchase price.
It’s also a short sale.
This building was new construction at the height of the Great Recession in 2008/2009 (so it was actually built AFTER the height of the bubble.)
You may remember it for its indoor bowling alley.
This unit has the finishes of newer construction including hardwood floors.
The kitchen has granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances. The bathrooms are marble.
The unit has central air, washer/dryer in the unit and it includes indoor heated parking.
Is this even much of a deal?
Daniel Sullivan at Conlon has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #1107: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1094 square feet
- Sold in August 2009 for $421,500
- Currently listed as a “short sale” at $335,000 (includes indoor parking)
- Assessments of $403 a month (includes doorman)
- Taxes of $5082
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 13×13
- Bedroom #2: 14×11
i would put $0 value on a bowling alley in a building. maybe worth $100.
$250-$275/SF would be top dollar. with parking. $300/SF is just too much premium for the neighborhood.
The top and bottom of this building do not work together. At all. I have a hard time believing this even looked like a good idea on paper. Who would look at a rendering of this building and think, “what an exciting contrast!” Ugly ugly ugly.
Other than that, this is a small boring 2 bed without a lot going for it. Unless you count the bowling alley. How much of that $400 a month in assessments do you think is going to repairing bowling equipment? Those ball returns don’t fix themselves…
Also: are prices in this pocket of the WL usually so high? I doubt it. Man, I’m cranky this morning.
No more like 300 w Parking,although more like $275.
The bowling alley is a great symbol for this building as it’s going to be a gutter ball for all of their down payments!
How do people who live in places like this even know they’re in the right apartment when they get home at night? I guess because the keys fit in the doors.
Small, bland, ordinary, cookie-cutter apartment.
And who wants a bowling alley in her building?
$100K overpriced at least.
$300/sqft to live in a low floor unit in a bad neighborhood in a subpar building with average finishes? No thanks. Assessments are low so I guess that is a plus.
I’d be embarrassed to live in a place that looked like this from the outside.
I can live with the outside but to me the bowling alley and arcade/game room is a negative. Costly to repair and draws an immature crowd…likely those who don’t realize what a drag those dumb amenities will be in the future.
I know it’s new(ish) construction but I fail to see how the quality, size, and location of these units warrants such inflated prices, even 335k feels too high for this shart sale. I lived close to this building for a year (at The Edge – 210 S Desplaines) – and the area dies off after 7PM, but hey they got the Walmart now! It only takes one buyer, right?
How in the world did this sell for 421k in 2009? This is more unbelievable than some of the 2006 prices we’ve seen in other buildings.
“My guess is we’re at the bottom, if not up a bit. People are not coming out to the sales centers for sport. They’re coming out because they’re looking to buy.”
-Alan Lev (Belgravia Group) president of the Homebuilders Association of Greater Chicago (Chicago Sun Times, Apr. 15, 2008)
“The grown-ups listen to everyone they perceive as being worth listening to and then make their decisions, recognizing that sometimes their decisions take them off a cliff. I can’t make them do anything. Developers and real estate agents can’t make them do anything. But at least they pay attention to us because we know things they want to learn.”
-Joe Zekas (Crib Chatter, February 2nd, 2010 at 6:11 pm)
Good thing the owners waited until after the developer’s bottom call to buy this place. I bet they listened and learned, just as the developer’s shill noted after it was too late.
Here’s the sales data for tier 07. There have been no resales in this tier.
807 7/27/2009 $404,500
907 6/30/2009 $425,500
1007 6/12/2009 $415,500
1107 8/27/2009 $421,500
1207 10/5/2009 $430,500
1307 4/18/2011 $340,900
1407 6/18/2010 $343,000
1507 7/16/2010 $342,900
1607 12/11/2009 $438,500
1707 7/1/2011 $349,000
1807 3/15/2010 $349,000
You know when we will hit bottom? When everyone thinks we haven’t. The pessimism will be at its peak, just like optimism was at the peak of the bubble. Unfortunately, just as few recognized the peak of the bubble, few will recognize the bottom of the crash.
G,
We still know things buyers want to learn that don’t get communicated by ignorant chatter.
If you cared about facts it would have taken you only a few minutes to learn that prices were reduced in January of 2010, after the purchase in this post:
http://yochicago.com/565-quincy-its-all-about-price-these-days/13661/
By the end of July last year, 116 units had gone under contract following the price reduction. Crain’s has reported several times that 565 Quincy was the best-selling downtown project for several quarters last year.
But hey, the perpetual non-buyers at CribChatter have a much better fix on what buyers want than actual buyers and developers do.
Facts be damned. Let the name calling proceed!
“If you cared about facts it would have taken you only a few minutes to learn that prices were reduced in January of 2010”
Joe-Z–that’s pretty much what his tier report shows.
The question I have is:
How does that reduction help the owner of this unit? Was 4.5 months of living in the place worth $80k+?
That seems to me to be the nugget underlying G’s objections to how this building was handled.
anon (tfo)
Do you really believe that G presented an honest picture by ignoring the developer’s price reductions and the sales pace that followed? Lev’s an honest guy and G does readers a disservice by the kind of drive-by shooting in his comment.
And what relevance does the quote from me have other than as a hook for name- calling?
This building is like a bald guy with a bad toupee. Something just does not look quite right on top!
250k with parking. I wouldn’t buy it at that, but that’s where it should be priced.
Joe-Z:
I’m not trying to get in the middle of the on-going thing you guys have–I don’t want to end up like Biggie–but:
–G didn’t say anything about sales pace. Neither did I.
–G’s not looking at it from the developer’s side, but from the perspective of those pre-Jan-10 buyers.
–Unlike G, I don’t doubt that Alan believed that at the time. Maybe he needed to check the tint of his glasses, but I don’t take him as having been dishonest.
–He included your quote clearly to tweak you and get a response, so it worked.
Now, how was the buyer of *this* unit helped by the Jan-10 price cuts? Was that extra 4.5 months worth $80k+ of (most likely your and my) money?
anon (tfo)
“Now, how was the buyer of *this* unit helped by the Jan-10 price cuts?”
You’re kidding, right?
Dropping prices and selling out the building quickly put 565 Quincy owners in a whole different, i.e. stronger position as to the resale market than if Belgravia had begun renting units or simply heldion and played its hand out.
I realize that’s cold comfort for a buyer who’s taking a loss, but it’s real. Belgravia also took a loss on this project as a result of the price cuts. It acted responsibly and did the right thing on behalf of its buyers and cheap-shot artists like G aren’t mature enough or sophisticated enough – or honest enough – to recognize that.
Duh. heldion = held on.
Joe-Z:
Fair enough view, but I thinks it’s more a damned either way situation–the pre-price drop buyer were screwed either way. Perhaps less screwed than under any other plausible sceanrio, but screwed nonetheless.
Not like any of them would be able to re-fi, without commiting additional equity, either, unless they sank a ton in in ’09, what with the sadsack (compared to their 80%+ LTVs) comps.
“–G didn’t say anything about sales pace. Neither did I.
–G’s not looking at it from the developer’s side, but from the perspective of those pre-Jan-10 buyers.
–Unlike G, I don’t doubt that Alan believed that at the time. Maybe he needed to check the tint of his glasses, but I don’t take him as having been dishonest.
–He included your quote clearly to tweak you and get a response, so it worked.”
He’s a shill, anon. What are facts? Obfuscation and spin are his game. Behold his shilliness!
G,
Here’s a fact for you – I don’t take dishonest shots at honest people. Here’s another: you do. It’s easy when you’re anonymous and don’t have to be responsible for what you say.
Take a hard look at yourself some day – a guy who bashes a high-integrity developer and bleats “shill” at one of the very few people in the business who takes a lot of risk by calling out the bad guys in the business by name. Nice work, G.
“Now, how was the buyer of *this* unit helped by the Jan-10 price cuts? Was that extra 4.5 months worth $80k+ of (most likely your and my) money?”
209 of the units, including the subject, were financed through Belgravia Mortgage Group. Nearly all of them were then assigned to Wells Fargo. I wonder who did the underwriting? Regardless, I think you might be onto something about our tax dollars eventually covering some of what is already in Belgravia’s pocket.
“Here’s a fact for you – I don’t take dishonest shots at honest people. Here’s another: you do. It’s easy when you’re anonymous and don’t have to be responsible for what you say.
Take a hard look at yourself some day – a guy who bashes a high-integrity developer and bleats “shill” at one of the very few people in the business who takes a lot of risk by calling out the bad guys in the business by name. Nice work, G.”
Shake that money maker!
G,
If you knew much about affiliated mortgage companies you’d have the answer to what you’re wondering about.
In Belgravia’s pocket? Do you know more than I do about whether Belgravia took a loss on this project?
You just keep doubling down on disgracing yourself.
Joe Z, is belgravia a client of yours?
CH
Yes. I’ve made that clear in the past, and should have repeated that information here, even though Belgravia is identified as one of our sponsors on the YoChicago home page.
Beyond being a client, I’ve known Buzz Ruttenberg and Alan Lev of Belgravia for decades, and have familiarity with all of their projects.
G does readers here a major disservice by suggesting that there’s anything disreputable about Belgravia’s business practices. He’s apparently under the illusion that he promotes rather than diminishes himself by doing that.
Ugly yellow colored brick aside, this building had the potential of being a really cool vintage loft building. The aesthetics was ruined by the ugly addition on top as well as the outdoor space created by punching out some of the windows on the lower level loft units. Also such a waste of the original interior loft space on floors 2 through 4 for parking. It would have been cool in its original form as a 7 story structure with parking in the basement. I’ve seen the unit here and I was not impressed.
Says Zekas: Here’s a fact for you – I don’t take dishonest shots at honest people.
Bawhahahaha!
If you look at the pattern of developer sales after the price cuts, this unit most likely would have been priced at $337,000. And someone probably would have bought it back in early 2011 at that price. The unit is no longer brand new from the developer, but I doubt it will sell for much under $320,000. I have to say that this buyer should have walked away in 2009 at that price. It’s amazing they paid that much post-crash.
“I realize that’s cold comfort for a buyer who’s taking a loss, but it’s real. Belgravia also took a loss on this project as a result of the price cuts. It acted responsibly and did the right thing on behalf of its buyers and cheap-shot artists like G aren’t mature enough or sophisticated enough – or honest enough – to recognize that.”
It took a LONG time for Belgravia to realize (admit?) the changes in the market.
Remember when Belgravia sales agents were posting here about some of the other Belgravia buildings- that NONE of their buyers ever sold for a loss? (this was in like 2008 or so- I think it was on one of their conversion buildings on Commonwealth in LP.) Basically arguing- their buildings were SO fantastic that the buyers would always make a profit?
I realize the market was changing and in 2008/2009 some people were behind the curve. But those were bold statements to be making by 2008 when the housing bust had clearly arrived.
I’m sure there were other developers who were in denial as well but Belgravia was the most vocal (and public) about giving quotes to the press and rah-rahing real estate right up until way past the end. That’s probably why they’re given the most grief.
Here is the comment I was referring to. This was in March 2009 from one of Belgravia’s sales agents regarding a re-sale unit in 2300 N. Commonwealth (a Belgravia conversion).
This wasn’t even 2008!
“I’m so glad I was able to locate this listing to clarify a huge mistake. The re-listing agent on 7L (the home in question) was actually mis-represented as 7F. 7F did indeed sell for $332,000 as a one bedroom home ($300,000) with parking @ $32,000. This was my first sale of 72. My name is Erin ******. I am currently representing Belgravia Group’s Quincy Community. I did however, represent every sale @ Commonwealth.
2300 Commonwealth sold in exactly one year and all current re-sales appraised out for higher than its original sales price (I keep tabs on my past transactions). 7L sold in 2006 for $374,000. There is plenty of appreciation.”
http://cribchatter.com/?p=6485
Sabrina,
The charitable side of me wants to believe that you’re just ignorant about Belgravia and not simply lying about their record. The realist in me says you have no regard for facts.
You take one comment from one salesperson about her past experience and transform it into “Belgravia sales agents … Basically arguing- their buildings were SO fantastic that the buyers would always make a profit?”
You cite no evidence “about giving quotes to the press and rah-rahing real estate right up until way past the end” when you could have easily found media quotes to the contrary.”
If you had any integrity you could have easily found one of our videos from September of 2008 with Alan Lev talking about the oversupply in the market. And another from the same time saying:
“First and foremost people should hopefully start to get over this idea of the last 10 years that real estate is first and foremost an investment and an alternative to the stock market.”
You could have easily found this Tribune article from November of 2008, with Lev’s negative outlook on the market:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-11-07/entertainment/0811051207_1_pulte-homes-plans-markets
You could have easily found much more on our site and in other media that makes a lie out of what you said.
You also could have easily learned that Belgravia adopted a “pricing integrity” strategy on all of its projects, and learned what impact that strategy had on Belgravia’s being late to the cost-cutting party.
But hey, you’re anonymous and your regulars don’t care about integrity, so you don’t have to either.
Thanks for the laugh sabrina. I always get a kick when someone’s linkedin profile is not only in the third person but starts each sentence with their name. I also get a kick when it says thinks like ” has exceptional interpersonal, verbal communication and interactive skills” LOL.
“and cheap-shot artists like G aren’t mature enough or sophisticated enough – or honest enough – to recognize that.””
Actually Joe Zekass I think G is far more sophisticated as most of the buyers at 565 Quincy. And likely more sophisticated than you. But you aren’t interested in sophistication you were interested in helping them pump transaction volume to lemmings about to take a plunge off a financial cliff.
And anybody who bought here in any part due to some cute marketing gal who spent some time in Paris I have to laugh at. Shows how stupid people are in general and why mortgage standards should never have eroded to the point where anything less than 20% down was necessary (other than veterans).
What the hell constitutes an interactive skill in any case? When I swipe my CTA card on the bus/train and it beeps does that count?
““First and foremost people should hopefully start to get over this idea of the last 10 years that real estate is first and foremost an investment and an alternative to the stock market.”
I didn’t think it was possible to use “first and foremost” twice in the same sentence.
I click on the link. Look at the picture of this building, and all I can think of is Pinhead from Hellraiser.
“You cite no evidence “about giving quotes to the press and rah-rahing real estate right up until way past the end” when you could have easily found media quotes to the contrary.”
If you had any integrity you could have easily found one of our videos from September of 2008 with Alan Lev talking about the oversupply in the market. And another from the same time saying.”
Joe- I was just pointing out that Belgravia was all over the press in the first years of the bust still rah-rahing. I’m too busy to go and find all the quotes they gave to Crain’s and the Tribune in those years about the real estate market. I have too many jobs to do and Crib Chatter keeps me even more busy. I’m lucky I have the time to search my own site. There are thousands of comments now. I’m one of those trying to give them the benefit of the doubt for still being rah-rahers late in the game. But you have to go and attack me nevertheless. (what’s new?)
I understand that most developers couldn’t believe the market was imploding. They probably still can’t believe the market isn’t going to come back the way they hope it will either. Most other developers simply didn’t speak to the press at all. Belgravia did- so those quotes are out there (too bad for them.)
If there was such an oversupply of condos on the market in 2008- why are their sales agents posting here a year later talking the game? They’re rogue agents or what? Because I doubt they were given the freedom to just post on the most popular real estate blog in Chicago with their own opinions- you know? And if they were allowed that- then more power to them.
Sabrina,
Sadly for you anyone can read what you said, and match it up against the facts and the lame spin you’re trying to put on it afterwards. And you repeat your shameful distortion of what that Belgravia agent actually said, and what Belgravia was saying to the press. That’s agent, singular, not plural since you’ve only cited one.
My numbers are public. If you’re running the “most popular real estate blog in Chicago,” publish your numbers to back that statement up. Or are you too busy to do that?
“My numbers are public. If you’re running the “most popular real estate blog in Chicago,” publish your numbers to back that statement up. Or are you too busy to do that?”
You’re OBSESSED with your numbers. I don’t care what mine are and it drives you crazy that I don’t care. ha! ha! I haven’t looked at my traffic for months. You probably look at yours every day. The last time I looked a few months ago I was shocked to see that I had millions of page views a year. Who knew?
I don’t run it for the traffic. I don’t run it to make money and have “sponsors” like you run YoChicago for. I run it to talk about all the great Chicago real estate with all the people who want to talk about real estate. And there are plenty of them. They want a forum so they’re welcome here.
For all the readers out there who don’t post but have an interest in a property- the contact form on the site is now operational (miracles DO happen) so keep those tips coming. I love getting them. I’m doing the best I can to get a variety of properties on the site (from all around the city.) Have patience if you’ve made a request. 🙂
Hang in there Sabrina! I for one think that this site is the best in category!
I do check my numbers almost every day, Sabrina – that’s how I keep on top of what people are reading on the site.
Since you don’t pay attention to your numbers, what’s your basis for basis for saying CC is “the most popular real estate blog in Chicago?” You and your commenters would savage a real estate developer who said “I don’t know what my sales are but I have the best-selling development in Chicago.”
“I click on the link. Look at the picture of this building, and all I can think of is Pinhead from Hellraiser.”
Had a buffalo bill moment when they hot blondie lost her skin in HR3. But the analogy also applies to people losing their financial skin on this transaction. Or as much skin as they had in the game I suppose.
“Since you don’t pay attention to your numbers, what’s your basis for basis for saying CC is “the most popular real estate blog in Chicago?””
Well- how many real estate blogs are there???
Less than a handful I would say. It’s not like there’s a lot of competition.
Are any others getting thousands of comments on their posts a year? Not that I’ve seen. If I’m missing a blog that is- please let me know.
I have no idea what your traffic is Joe (and I don’t care. If I don’t care about my own- why would I care about yours?) But given that you’re always linking to your website here at Crib Chatter (putting up links to your posts within Crib Chatter threads)- I’m pretty sure it’s less than mine.
I think we need a reenactment of the fight scene from tonight’s ‘Mad Men’.
From Crain’s November 2009:
After completing 4,155 units in 2008 and 4,061 units this year, downtown condo and townhome developers will finish just 900 in 2010, a 78% drop, according to Appraisal Research. Just 86 units are due to be completed in 2011.
“2010’s going to be a better year than 2009,” says Alan Lev, CEO of Chicago-based residential developer Belgravia Group Ltd. “Nothing new is getting built. It seems as though things are stabilizing.”
As I said before (but apparently didn’t make clear)- Belgravia is one of the few developers that has actually provided market commentary over the years of the bust to Crain’s, Sun Times, Tribune etc. So they’re pretty much on the record many times. In their defense, they couldn’t know how bad this bust was going to be. And we all know that the developers, as a group, are usually overly optimistic.
Joe: Do you remember at what point did you decided to switch practices and start disclosing that you were being compensated and so-and-so was a client? And as a follow up, why prompted the switch?
—-
Joe Zekas (April 13, 2012, 6:53 pm)
CH
Yes. I’ve made that clear in the past, and should have repeated that information here, even though Belgravia is identified as one of our sponsors on the YoChicago home page.
Beyond being a client, I’ve known Buzz Ruttenberg and Alan Lev of Belgravia for decades, and have familiarity with all of their projects.
Sabrina,
Alan Lev was the president of the Home Builders Association of Greater Chicago during part of the period in question. He could be counted on to be credible, knowledgeable and to return phone calls promptly. That’s why he was more visible in the media than other builders.
The fair-minded among us know that Belgravia and Lev don’t fit the distorted picture you’ve painted.
To respond to another of your points: I watch my numbers very carefully, including where my traffic comes from. From that standpoint, CribChatter is a waste of time. A comment on Curbed, Facebook, Crain’s, etc. generates far more traffic than a comment on CribChatter.
chichow,
Revised Federal Trade Commission guidelines from several years prompted the change. I over-comply.
“A comment on Curbed, Facebook, Crain’s, etc. generates far more traffic than a comment on CribChatter.”
Then why are you here????
@ Joe,
Thanks for the quick reply. I couldn’t recall when exactly was the switch and figured it was faster to just try and ask vs. picking through the site.
@ Sabrina
Joe’s making a living; I don’t beget a man’s right to work (Data Based Ads)
==
Sabrina (April 16, 2012, 8:28 am)
“A comment on Curbed, Facebook, Crain’s, etc. generates far more traffic than a comment on CribChatter.”
Then why are you here????