Spacious Bucktown Townhouse Still Available: 1742 N. Winnebago
This 3-bedroom townhouse at 1742 N. Winnebago in Bucktown isn’t one of the small townhouses that were built during the boom.
Built in 1996, it has nearly 3000 square feet of living space alongside an open concept floor plan that most current buyers like.
We last chattered about this townhouse in September 2009. See our prior chatter and pictures here.
It has since been reduced by $10,000.
The house also has a roof top deck with a built in bar for those hot summer nights and a 2-car garage.
Robert John Anderson at Baird & Warner has the listing. See more pictures here.
Unit #B: 4 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 2 car garage, 2934 square feet
- Sold in November 1996 for $304,500
- Sold in April 2004 for $542,500
- Sold in January 2006 for $611,500
- Sold in April 2007 for $662,000
- Originally listed in August 2009 for $649,000
- Reduced
- Was listed in September 2009 for $635,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $625,000
- Assessments of $55 a month
- Taxes of $7,040
- Central Air
- 3 bedrooms are on the upper floor and 1 is on the lower level
Ho hum, another trapped FB. Headed for the 2004 price.
I didn’t see anyone asking before, but there’s either a big problem, or very bad luck, for this house to be for sale for the 5th time in a little over a decade (including the last 3, plus current owner all selling–or trying to sell–after living here for only about 2 years each).
This would be surprising enough if talking about a starter condo, but for a 3000 sq. ft townhouse?!
We’ve stopped looking at townhouses. Just can’t really see raising a family there. I haven’t seen this one but even larger townhouses feel much more cramped. I’m not sure if 3,000 af is accurate for this.
I like Bucktown well enough, although this would do better on the other side of Milwaukee. But schools are a big problem.
Also, this illustrates the disconnect between Case-Shiller and list prices. Case-Shiller is at 2003 or 2004 prices. No one lists close to that. So don’t tell me prices are fine because Case-Shiller is flat or has a blip up, if you want me to pay 2006 prices for your house.
We’re actually looking for a townhouse (no kids) similar to this, but don’t want to live in Bucktown. We’ve been looking around just to get a feel for prices and saw this place:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2109-W-Berteau-Ave-60618/home/12624908
So darn overpriced, like probably $100K or more overpriced. Their agent said the sellers want the price they want and won’t sell otherwise. Why don’t they just pull it from the market? They are just wasting everyone’s time.
“So darn overpriced, like probably $100K or more overpriced. Their agent said the sellers want the price they want and won’t sell otherwise. Why don’t they just pull it from the market? They are just wasting everyone’s time.”
They can price it however they want. They own it. Just go look at one of the other bazillion townhomes on the market.
That, my friend, is why the fallout from the real estate bubble is like watching a slow motion train wreck. I’d almost be willing to pay 2003 prices but the only units listed at 2003 prices are POS crapshacks with lots of work.
“Also, this illustrates the disconnect between Case-Shiller and list prices. Case-Shiller is at 2003 or 2004 prices. No one lists close to that. So don’t tell me prices are fine because Case-Shiller is flat or has a blip up, if you want me to pay 2006 prices for your house.”
Question:
Ouch, $7,000 in taxes for townhome. And the sellers paid $644,000.00 in 2006. The original selling price in 2003 was $520,000. It appears the only mortgage is a $270,000 which has been paid down from the original $515k. They should have kept the cash instead of paying down the mortgage.
“2109 Berteau — 2 BLKS TO COONLEY SCHOOL”
Great, so I can send my kid to a school ranked # 1,332 out of 2,205 elementary schools in the state.
http://labs.suntimes.com/reportcards/results/index/2009/1341
Better off wasting the agents comments on things like “2 blocks to Athenian Room”…
Waste of time indeed.
JMM, didnt you and anon hash out this coonley thing like twice already?
individual prices will never match the overall Case-Shiller index. That’s like saying each stock in the S&P 500 is only worth as much as the entire index moves…
“individual prices will never match the overall Case-Shiller index”
Almost none of the asking prices I look at correspond to what is indicated by transaction prices reflected in Case-Shiller.
I think I asked about Coonley before as well. I now know there’s a neighborhood and a gifted (or whatever) program there. Is it clear the neighborhood program is turning around in the lower grades?
Has anyone looked at the townhouse at 1736 N Winnebago? Its pretty much the same thing for $150K less…
DZ, it is very clear there is a turnaround at Coonley, IMHO. The school was already improving with the new principal a few years ago, and now that they added the gifted program, there has been a big uptick in people with preschool-aged kids moving in to the area after investigating the school, with the express plan to enroll their children there. This is based on info from a friend who taught there until recently as well as a friend who lives in the neighborhood enrollment boundaries.
“it is very clear there is a turnaround at Coonley”
Only has about 1,230 other schools (or more than half of the schools in the state) to leapfrog before its top 100 on par with say, Blaine, Bell, Lincoln etc.
That is a ridiculous notion. The numbers clearly speak for themselves. This reminds me of the sentiment spun by realtors about Cabrini circa 2000. And where are we?
Oh, I also heard “Bucktown” West of Western is also in a clear state of turnaround. It came on reliable intel from a realtor that had a condo for sale there.
I do actually believe that when schools shift, they can shift very quickly. There is a big “network effect”. Parents care about which other parents are sending their kids there.
What I was interested in however, is whether there are any facts showing that Coonley is already turning around, as reflected in e.g. test performance in lower grades (I can’t seem to find anything on CPS at the moment, links are broken). Less whether people were expecting/hoping for a turnaround.
I’m not sure how much I buy the theory that a neighborhood school that is part of the same school with a gifted program necessarily being good. I know it is true of many of the other schools with gifted programs but I don’t know if they were good because they had a gifted program, or maybe they got a gifted program because they were good. I also don’t think Pritzker neighborhood program is good at all, although perhaps the gifted part of Pritzker is not that good yet either.
Finally, I fully accept that there may be forces in motion that make it extremely likely Coonley will be good, even if that is not reflected in performance yet–that is why I’m asking for info here. But at some point, the neighborhood parents have to decide it’s good enough to send their kids, and they won’t do it just because there’s a gifted program.
“Only has about 1,230 other schools (or more than half of the schools in the state) to leapfrog before its top 100”
Because we all know that test scores are the only thing to judge schools (and kids) on.
There are a lot of things going on a Coonley that are positive; not positive enough for JMM, but whatever–what JMM (or any one of us)thinks about any given school isn’t a big deal.
What’s up with that outdoor bar? It would be absolutely stupid to have a sink and running water outdoors in Chicago’s climate, but without them, it’s just a bit of counter-space. Outside. That’s likely to be covered in bird-droppings. And will definitely be totally unusable for at least half of the year.
I kinda wonder at some of these house listings with the built-in bars. How much do you have to drink/entertain in order to justify the added expense?
“I do actually believe that when schools shift, they can shift very quickly.”
Buyer beware.
The Bell owner-occupied housing stock doesn’t turn over much, is fairly limited and tends to be expensive, and so I understand why parents want an alternative.
To argue against myself a bit, it is true that, with few exceptions, most CPS schools were in the toilet 20 years ago. The difference is more families wanting to stay in the city. BUT, I think that trend will crest soon, so if the school isn’t good now, you’re speculating.
Given the price / value equation in North Center NORTH of Bell (i.e., it is already expensive), why speculate? Track record is the best indicator.
A gifted program is not relevant and has little or no halo effect (see Lincoln Park HS as an example). Anyone who tells you that is blowing smoke.
“But at some point, the neighborhood parents have to decide it’s good enough to send their kids, and they won’t do it just because there’s a gifted program.”
Right. Do you know anyone in the neighborhood with school age kids?
I know people who are sending their kids there and those who are not–for a variety of reasons, with the alterantives ranging from home schooling, thru St Bens/hebrew/other religious schools, to parker/latin/british/other-$20k-schools. Most of the parents I know who are sending their kids to Coonley in the neighborhood program are not doing so for lack of an alternative. That’s not going to convince you, nor should it, but it’s a hell of a lot more concrete than “i just don’t believe it’s getting better”.
“There are a lot of things going on a Coonley that are positive; not positive enough for JMM”
More importantly, not positive enough to point out in a RE listing.
Numbers are an objective way to measure things. They aren’t perfect, but they will do. What’s more, I see a pretty damn strong correlation between all the other “anecdotally” good schools in CPS and the rankings, so I will let the case rest there.
“parker/latin/british”
Let’s distinguish shall we? Parker and Latin are difficult to get into. Latin requires serious connections or legacy and Parker is not far behind. They also have a long tradition and tenure getting children into the best colleges in the country.
British School of Chicago is take all comers because it is a private-equity backed for-profit enterprise. I think they barely have anyone enrolled above 8th grade.
Having the British School as an alternative is not saying anything other than “I can afford to pay $25k tuition” and “I want my kid to wear a uniform to school.”
“Let’s distinguish shall we?”
Nah, b/c that’s not the point. It’s about the cost and the commuting-to-school inconvenience and that there are some who undertake it.
Are the connected/legacy admits (as opposed to the occassional newbie admit) to Latin/Parker really buying houses in North Center?
“Nah, b/c that’s not the point. It’s about the cost and the commuting-to-school inconvenience and that there are some who undertake it.”
The bottom line is that you are hyping a school that has no empirical evidence of performance. Justify it anyway you want.
“Are the connected/legacy admits (as opposed to the occassional newbie admit) to Latin/Parker really buying houses in North Center?”
Probably none of them are (Latin draws mostly for GC and ELP while Parker draws mostly from LP and LV). You made it sound like your friends had these alternatives and still chose Coonley. I highly doubt any family would choose Coonley over Latin or Parker unless they did not have the economic resources to pay for it (understandable, paying $25k for coloring and naptime seems excessive). However, since new buyers to Coonley district are ponying up for $1M cookie cutter houses, even that seems suspect.
“You made it sound like your friends had these alternatives and still chose Coonley. ”
No, you read that into it. Given your high dudgeon on the matter, I clearly should have just said “$20k-schools”–I was being intentionally vague.
Sorry I offended your precious Parker/Latin sensibilities. I’ll try to take them into account before posting about P/L in the future.
“Has anyone looked at the townhouse at 1736 N Winnebago? Its pretty much the same thing for $150K less…”
Good find. 1736 looks to be a little smaller, but still, this seller is screwed.
I do think I would choose one of the good gifted CPS schools over Latin or Parker. I don’t actually know Latin or Parker that well (I think I might have some shot at getting our kid in through connections but absolutely not saying I know he could get in) but I am assuming they are like (or want to be like) Exeter or Andover or the NYC schools that I’m much more familiar with, and I would not want my kid to go there.
I’m also a little curious about the economics of private schools. Is it really so costly that I couldn’t put together a first rate school and faculty for say $10K a student? I know that’s not why Parker or Latin get to charge $25K, but most private schools seem $20K+.
“Is it really so costly that I couldn’t put together a first rate school and faculty for say $10K a student?”
My old elementary school has an operating cost per student of $16,000. Private schools tend to have more teachers per student, however.
Capital expenditures also need to be covered through endowment and/or tuition not bond issues or parcel taxes.
The economics are what they are. Public schools are good deal, assuming they provide a good education (and not in a speculative “things are getting better guys, really, trust us — more Lexus RX 450’s drop kids off each and every day…” kind of way).
If you have the means and connections for a parker, latin, or U of C Lab and you decided to send your kid to CPS…….
DCFS should be called on you, and your teeth should be kicked in.
“If you have the means and connections for a parker, latin, or U of C Lab and you decided to send your kid to CPS…….”
Oh, groove, what a load of crap.
If Groove was being sarcastic, I still agree with him (for the most part).
“If Groove was being sarcastic, I still agree with him (for the most part).”
Really? Never would have guessed that.
Does the same sentiment apply to those with no connections and/or lesser means who choose CPS over moving to New Trier or Hinsdale or wherever?
why would anybody want to send their kid to learn latin?
I was partial sarcasm and partial statement.
now if we were talking CPS high schools now the above joke becomes 100% truth.
“Does the same sentiment apply to those with no connections and/or lesser means who choose CPS over moving to New Trier or Hinsdale or wherever?”
If it’s well established and recognized attendance school or magnet, no. Payton is better in some respects that Hin Central or NT.
But Coonley is not that. So, then, yes the same argument applies. I know you are partial to “friends” (or perhaps you, which seems more likely given your visceral reaction) that send their kids there, but that doesn’t mean you should ignore the objective facts. And it certainly isn’t a reason to buy or place a premium on RE in that area.
“now if we were talking CPS high schools now the above joke becomes 100% truth”
Is that even for the selective admission schools? I don’t know the school scene in Chicago that well yet, but I am fairly sure there is nothing at Latin or Parker that my kid could not live without, and a lot at those schools that he would be better off not experiencing. I really only know things in East Coast terms, but I would absolutely rather have my kid go to Stuyvesant than one of the prep schools.
“rather have my kid go to Stuyvesant”
Stuyvesant is consistently rated among the top 10 public schools in the country. Some lists specifically exclude it because it is such a stacked deck as a magnet. It is harder to get into that Harvard, perhaps by a significant factor. It also harder to get into SPS, Ex, CRH, And, etc.
So, sure, I’d send my kids there. But baring real genius material, a good attendenace area school is best.
Chicago has some magnets that come close to Stuyvesant, but not quite the same level. Payton for example. Extremely difficult to get into and they used to use stupid metrics like perfect attendance to calculate it (though I think that has been phased out — god forbid your kid gets hit with swine flu right).
Is that even for the selective admission schools?
I WILL retract that statement if some ones kid works hard or is smart enough (and also gets lucky) to get into the “special” enrollment schools as northside prep, payton, whitney young for the heck of it i will throw in Lane Tech.
DZ, one thing to remember, read and reread some of my posts you will quickly make the correlation that i am a product of the CPS system. Went to two elem schools one being the top 15 at that time, i also went a bunch of Highschools on being in the top 10 and one being in the bottom 10 (i was a punk/troubled teenager story for another day)
I do think the AVERAGE CPS school is a looooooong way from acceptable. but the special/selective enrollment schools are a whole separate animal and if a kids is lucky plus has the drive not to get burnt out in these “special” schools consider them lucky.
“visceral reaction”
Point me to what you deem “visceral”. Absent that, you’ve had as “visceral” a reaction to my lumping P and L with the British School.
“the AVERAGE CPS school is a looooooong way from acceptable”
This is something that we can all agree on.
“This is something that we can all agree on.”
So if it is ranked 1,300-ish out of 2,200 does that mean its slightly below 50th percentile. Something about 50th percentile makes me think that makes it is average, but not sure. So, I guess we agree Coonley is a long way from acceptable.
to jump in on the coonley debate
I will say this, i have been hearing as of late the turnaround its having in its lower grades. a positive thing!
but i personally would rather send my kid to a school that has a long history of being “good” and not chance it in hopes a school will turn around.
I will agree that JMM says coonley shouldnt be a selling point for that house. (not yet)
but i will agree Anon the its on the uptick and cant wait to see coonley in the next five years.
honestly with people being “stuck” in there homes (no suburban flee) cause of RE market i really cant wait to see all of the CPS schools in the next five years.
Yall have a good weekend stay dry and warm,
groove is outie 5000
JMM–
Whatever man. You win. I’m drowning in viscera which ain’t mine.
All I’ve said is Coonley is getting better and isn’t as bad as test-based perception would indicate, but you’ve turned me into the mf’ing boogie man of Coonley defenders. (I dare you to find where I said Coonley is “good” or any reasonable synonym).
btw, fwiw, USNews’ latest HS ranking has Stuy at #31 (Northside is #37, Payton and Jones in the 90s), not the top school in NYC, which is The High School of American Studies at Lehman College at #19.
Which just shows that the rankings (or at least the false precision of them) are kind of crap.
Most of the kids from the newer upper income (well-educated, coollege grad, etc) families at Coonley are in Pre-K, K 1st, 2nd and testing begins in 3rd grade-so once the gifted kids and the upper income kids are old enough to be tested, you are going to see a big jump in Coonley scores.
People who know about the better Chicago CPS schools are indeed watching Coonley and many people on a popular parent message board are looking for a home specifically in the Coonley district.
So, yes, a savvy agent, or even one with half a brain, would mention that in a listing.
Thanks for all the info everyone! Seriously. I’m not sure there is that much disagreement in fact, but the debate is very informative for me.
I don’t think anyone is saying that Coonely is already at the level of say Bell, but Blaine was not 5 years ago and now it’s pretty close, if not actually there given the fact that Bell includes a gifted program. Look, you can pay the Bell premium and know what you are getting, or you can take a bit of a gamble on some other neighborhoods.
“Look, you can pay the Bell premium and know what you are getting, or you can take a bit of a gamble on some other neighborhoods.”
I am not convinced there is really a premium between Bell and Coonley, which is precisely the point. The problem with Bell is that people do not move (because they like the school and the neighborhood). Other attendence areas have much more turnover. So, you don’t see many high quality SFH’s come up for sale that often.
Lincoln Elementary, however, definitely has a premium to rest of LP. Some Realtors (TM) have even argued (though I disagree with this) that it impacts even 2/2 condos.
“I am not convinced there is really a premium between Bell and Coonley”
Probably not, esp when you consider that most Bell lots are 30′ while most Coonley lots are 25′. I think the apparent premium is (partly) b/c a lot of the new construction in Bell is bigger than the new con in Coonley, so of course it’s more expensive.
“I am not convinced there is really a premium between Bell and Coonley, which is precisely the point.”
The heterogeneity makes comparisons difficult but I have kept a close eye on Bell listings in the last year and have the distinct impression there is something like a $100K premium for Bell for homes that are in the $1MM range. Take a look at something like 2113 W Belle Plaine or 2310 W Berteau. I think those would list for significantly more if they were in Bell.
I really don’t have anything invested in any particular neighborhood. I’d like a home with a good neighborhood school. I don’t care if it’s Bell or Coonley or anywhere else.
What Bell listings? There are hardly any. Reason: people stay there.
DZ:
You’re likely right, altho the Berteau place is a really tough comp b/c of the much diff lot (which I like a lot).
Check 2451 Dakin (at $999) for a Bell comp–I don’t think that place would list for only $900k in Coonley, but I may well be wrong. And see 3621 Hoyne (which is in Audubon) at $992k.
Looking at those, I noticed that the Barn on Bell has dropped again–it’s now at $389k. And that a bidder posted in the prior that teh bank turned down $330k–which is probably where that silly thing is headed, anyway.
“What Bell listings? There are hardly any. ”
For 4+ BRs, looks like 7 in Bell and 15 or 16 (w/o 2x-ing exact boundaries) in Coonley.
“What Bell listings? There are hardly any. Reason: people stay there.”
Agreed there are very few listings. And there are many looking for houses in Bell. One would tend to think scarcity of supply would affect prices.
As I said, everything is so heterogeneous and given there are so few Bell houses, comparisons are difficult. So I don’t know that I can really prove my point with data. But the plural of anecdote (plus conjecture) is data. Take a look at 3822 N Seeley. I confess I have not seen the inside as the style is not to my taste. I don’t think that lists for $1MM in Coonley.
anon (tfo): Interesting point about lot size. On 2451 Dakin, west of Western may negate the Bell premium. For us, we have an absolute rule that we don’t look west of Western. I am a little curious what happened to all those Bradley Place houses. I haven’t followed closely.
“I am a little curious what happened to all those Bradley Place houses. ”
A number of them have been on the market as re-sales, but I haven’t followed closings or prices. There’s one currently listed for $1.199. I’m also not-a-fan, but they do have one big thing going for them–4 BRs on the 2d floor.
“3822 N Seeley”: (1) 32.5′ lot, so that’s 1.3 lots north of IPR, which is a big diff, (2) 3 BRs on 3 separate floors–*really??*, (3) we’ll see what it sells for; seems too funky layout-wise for most; more of a project than a move-in place, esp w/ younger kids.
“On 2451 Dakin, west of Western may negate the Bell premium. For us, we have an absolute rule that we don’t look west of Western.”
West of Western doesn’t count in any way, shape or form. The advantage of Bell is a supremely walkable K-8. That doesn’t really work if your kid gets hit by a motorcycle gang bearing down Western.
Now, Bradley Place between Leavitt and Damen is arguably the best stretch in Bell. And there are some houses that have traded at reasonable price points there. Personally, I prefer the victorian or wood frames on that street to the boring looking 2 flat conversions which suffer from very strange entrances and suboptimal layouts. If I wanted my house to look like a two-flat rental, I’d buy a two flat rental and live in it with a renter below me.
“Bradley Place between Leavitt and Damen is arguably the best stretch in Bell.”
I don’t know if it’s arguable. And, no, I don’t live on Bradley.
Hey, I like the 2 flat conversions! 🙂
On the Bell premiumm issue, thinking back on it, I remember seeing a couple places outside of Bell and thinking I would have been much more interested if they were in Bell. There was a JMM house (you’re not that JMM are you?) on Cuyler I think that was in Coonley. And some other house just north of Irving Park I can’t remember.
I did see 3813 N Bell appears to have sold for $690K last month, over $100K below ask. Someone told me the renovations seemed badly done.
The area I really can’t understand is Lincoln Sq. No public school option, worse commute to loop, hard to get to expressways. Seems priced at least a bit above Coonley-ish area. I’m sure other people have different priorities.
“3813 N Bell … over $100K below ask”
Original ask, no? Or did they not drop at all before selling?
Story and a half, with quasi-dormers on most of the 2d floor (cased on streetview). can’t imagine that the 2d floor feels spacious, at all.
“I don’t know if it’s arguable. And, no, I don’t live on Bradley”
Glad we agree on something.
“There was a JMM house (you’re not that JMM are you?) on Cuyler I think that was in Coonley.”
If you mean John Mangan, no. He is a very good builder though. Sold one property on Leavitt just off Bradley for pretty close to ask at a big price. His quality is well reputed from those I know in the neighborhood.
“3813 N Bell … over $100K below ask”
Original ask. OLP was 799. This house had a strange roof issue if I recall correctly.
“If you mean John Mangan, no. He is a very good builder though. Sold one property on Leavitt just off Bradley for pretty close to ask at a big price.”
I’ve been in the Mangan house at 3917 Leavitt–really nice inside and out and on a 37.5′ lot, but I think the location across from St Bens is holding it back at $1.995. Everything Mangan I’ve seen looks great.
“If you mean John Mangan, no.” No, I meant http://www.jmmdevelopment.com/
Just looked at the Mangan site. There’s a few Bell houses that have been presold. And a house at 2224 West Cullom that is listed for preconstruction pricing at $1.15MM. I think that’s in Coonley. I have to think it would be more in Bell (I’m not saying it would be $2.0).
Why is it that you need to buy a million dollar home in Chicago to get a half-way decent elementary school? What the hell is wrong with this city?
“And a house at 2224 West Cullom that is listed for preconstruction pricing at $1.15MM.”
It’s not a full lot (tho it’s 30+’ wide)–it’s alley access is taken up by the Barn on Bell. So, it’s really at least $1.5mm, to me. Probably would be like $1.7+ in Bell, but might be that high in Coonley, too, if Mangan controlled both lots. That’s a nice quiet corner, with the alderman living v. nearby.
“jmm dev”
Been in a couple of their houses, too. Interiors are nicely done, but not quite what I would want. All of their places I’ve seen (ie, not all of them) are cursed with vinyl siding.
“3917 Leavitt–really nice inside and out and on a 37.5? lot, but I think the location across from St Bens is holding it back at $1.995.”
Bad location. Too much house. But he has the $ and the inclination to hold it for the foreseeable future.
“3917 Leavitt–really nice inside and out and on a 37.5? lot, but I think the location across from St Bens is holding it back at $1.995.”
Bad location. Too much house. But he has the $ and the inclination to hold it for the foreseeable future.
This is also OT, but somewhat Bucktown related. Anyone know anything about the Pulaski IB initiative?
http://pulaskiib.com/
I saw the IB program touted in a listing…
I don’t know about Pulaski, but my WP friends send their kids to Drummond and Lasalle II and like both.
Exciting stuff
You may have kids some day-and then you’ll care.
probably not because my friends will shoot me in the head if Im ever this boring
Well, instead of educating your future kids you could just chain them to the bed with the tv playing Barney.
Your friends would think that was really cool…
I’m about to shoot myself in the head to avoid having to understand CPS.
Having said that, Drummond and Lasalle II are both lottery based I believe. I can’t exactly buy a house based on that. I suppose I could live where I wanted and see if we could test or lottery into something workable and then move if needed. My wife is not a big fan of this option. Sorry to take up your time, Sonies.
DZ,
i know you dont want to look past western, but the actual top NON TEST IN schools are that way.
there is also the suburb option 🙁
Schools are totally germane to the discussion of real estate…..
“Having said that, Drummond and Lasalle II are both lottery based I believe. I can’t exactly buy a house based on that. I suppose I could live where I wanted and see if we could test or lottery into something workable and then move if needed. My wife is not a big fan of this option.”
DZ-
I understand that, but now that the consent decree has been struck down, proximity to the school will help you in the lottery. I understand it its not a sure thing, but somehow all of my friends have found decent schools
“i know you dont want to look past western, but the actual top NON TEST IN schools are that way.”
Which ones? The Oriole/Norwood Pk and Edgebrook etc. areas? Those don’t really appear to us for various reasons.
If you go far enough away from Western, and far enough north too I suppose, west of Western might be ok. I hold to that rule however in Bucktown/Wicker and Bell/North Ctr.
“there is also the suburb option”
I really would have to shoot myself in the head. It may come to that.
“now that the consent decree has been struck down, proximity to the school will help you in the lottery. I understand it its not a sure thing, but somehow all of my friends have found decent schools”
It wasn’t clear to me the proximity component necessarily became more favorable. I don’t know how much the rules were actually honored, but I thought the old proximity allocated 30% of slots, while the new one allocated 50% of slots after all sibling admits. If sibling admits are greater than 60% (I have no idea whether that is possible), then half of the remainder would be less than 30%.
If we already owned a place, we’d probably stay put. One thing people always told me but I have come to believe for myself is that K-8 is feasible to manage even w/o a neighborhood school. But we are looking for a place. And if we are going to buy, it sure would be nice to have a good neighborhood school.
“K-8 is feasible to manage even w/o a neighborhood school”
Just means a helluva lot of driving. The school day is ridiculously short, making it a royal pain if you have two kids.
“Why is it that you need to buy a million dollar home in Chicago to get a half-way decent elementary school? What the hell is wrong with this city?”
Better still, homedelete, why do you need to spend $1 million to get a half way decent house?
Sabrina – I think you inadvertently banned my work IP when you banned the fake homedeIete. This is my home ip now; my work is is 72.90.xx.xx or some similar variation of that; I accidentally posted three or four times as homedeleat (a typo) and firefox kept remembering it as my username and I hit send before I noticed that something was amiss which is probably why you thought there were two fake homedeletes.
Thanks
Homedeleat had kind of a cool “greco-roman” ring to it, though.
“Better still, homedelete, why do you need to spend $1 million to get a half way decent house?”
Its a easily solved mystery. You can a get a 4000 sq ft mansion on a half or more acre in Algonquin for like 500k.
But then you will be in Algonquin, seriously its Algonquin.
now can 500k even get you in a house in Lincoln school district? Bell attendance east of western?
prices are what people are willing to pay. and its odd cause people are willing to still pay these inflated prices.
Sorry for more school stuff, but to answer my own question on Pulaski, based on a quick read and asking a couple of people, it appears Pulaski used to be a neighborhood school with an ELL gifted component and was also a magnet school and also had a fine arts focus. I’ll confess I don’t understand all of those distinctions.
In practice, it had relatively few students from the now increasingly yuppie neighborhood, but served as an at least adequate, if not really good, option for families from surrounding areas with really bad neighborhood schools. E.g., maybe Humboldt Park. The Bucktown residents wanted to put in an IB program, but mostly I think to jump start Pulaski as a neighborhood school.
So depending on who you ask, it was either the white yuppies in Bucktown wanting to “take over” a school that was a functioning option for Hispanic families without other options. Or it was committed parents wanting to revitalize a school that was doing a poor job of serving its neighborhood. And there was the side drama of the current teachers at Pulaski losing their positions with the transition to IB.
The compromise of sorts that was worked out was to put in the IB program starting fall 2010, siblings of current Pulaski students get the right the attend even if they are not in neighborhood, current teachers get right to interview for jobs in IB program, and the ELL gifted component stays at the location.
I couldn’t care less about IB, but I am interested in how this sorts itself out.
DZ: [re: Pulaski[
All consistent with what I’ve read/heard, but I hadn’t paid enough attention to go first.
Also, by way of apology for all the off topicness, in checking out the Pulaski boundaries, I realized that’s actually the neighborhood school for the townhouse above.
Can’t believe they didn’t put that in the listing…PULASKI IB 2010!!!
“Also, by way of apology for all the off topicnes”
DZ,
i am one that will believe that Schools, Community and Parks play a huge factor in the SFH real estate game.
You are not buying a TV or a Car. you are buying a plot of land with a HOME on it. This is a place your family (kids our not) will grow, live, learn, love, and all the sorts.
When you are dropping that much money and may be there for 10 plus years all the factors need to be carefully checked
So of course I’m convinced now that Pulaski is the place, much like I was convinced Dearborn Park and South Loop Elem was the place a while ago. Looking at listings there and had to share the following excerpt:
“…Is Situated Directly Across From Pulaski Fine-Arts Acadamy Launching The Intl Bachelorette Prog In 2010!”
“…Is Situated Directly Across From Pulaski Fine-Arts Acadamy Launching The Intl Bachelorette Prog In 2010!”
Hilarious.
Looks like a pretty nice house, but the 100′ lot sux.
Any idea if they’ll get $$ to upgrade the schoolyard?
House is decent. Short lot, basically no yard, is big negative. Haven’t found anyone yet with non-public intel about school. Have heard and read CPS made promises to support capital improvements but all rather vague.
I hate to say it, but the $660K price in 2005 actually seems a touch low for a bubble price. (House is 2034 N Oakley for anyone interested and not as sleuthy as anon.) Short lot may be part of it, but I’ve seen other smaller houses on similar lots in Bucktown/Wicker, where it’s pretty common, go for low $700s during 2005-6. Being across street from the school may be a downside.
If we get to the nominal 1999 price of $408, I’m in. Hell, I’d probably pay the list price right now. Save a bunch of money compared to a house in Bell. Not sure my wife will go for it, though she lived right around there back when it was cool, or so she tells me.
“Haven’t found anyone yet with non-public intel about school.”
Have you tried asking the alderman’s office? They are occasionally actually helpful and almost always know if public capital spending is planned for the Ward.
“Being across street from the school may be a downside.”
Esp. when the school was almost entirely *not* neighborhood kids.
“Have you tried asking the alderman’s office?”
Good idea. I’ve been surprised in past with helpfulness. I’ve put in an inquiry.
“Esp. when the school was almost entirely *not* neighborhood kids.”
Agreed. I have to think it affected the 2005 price. Maybe less of a negative now, although the attendance is not going to change dramatically anytime soon, even assuming everything goes as the yuppies hope. This location is really close to Blue line, my door to door would be legit 20- 25 min. And there’s some decent food around.
Hi-
I am coordinating the neighborhood group that is working to improve Pulaski Elementary. If you have any questions please feel free to email me.
Steve Dillinger
sdillinger@gmail.com
“much like I was convinced Dearborn Park and South Loop Elem was the place a while ago”
DZ, I’m curious if it was something about the school that changed your mind?
“Agreed. I have to think it affected the 2005 price. Maybe less of a negative now, although the attendance is not going to change dramatically anytime soon, even assuming everything goes as the yuppies hope. This location is really close to Blue line, my door to door would be legit 20- 25 min. And there’s some decent food around.”
If you can get comfortable with the prospects for the school and the short lot doesn’t bother you, it seems pretty decent.
The things that would bug me, based on the pix: Kitchen layout seems weird and the pix make it seem set back ~5+ feet more than the neighbors.
As to the 05 price, maybe the seller just wasn’t greedy, or they were friends, or had an off-record agreement, or something else. Recorded dox make a distressed sale seem unlikely, but the seller didn’t buy something new in Cook, so they may have left the area and just wanted to sell quickly.
Funny–the 1999 nominal price is almost right on the original sale price of $241,500 inflated at 3.5%/yr ($404k). ‘course, the ‘hood is v.v. different than it was in ’95. House to the north was the same builder, orig price of $308.5. They bought the 2 lots combined for $92k in ’93, from an entity that paid $65k in ’88.
“I’m curious if it was something about the school that changed your mind?”
No, school seems pretty promising actually. Believe scores leaving out the gifted program are still good. Probably more my wife than me but we started having some general concerns about neighborhood, especially in light of the economy. Nothing very specific and we may change our minds.
That immediate Dearborn Park area (S of Roosevelt) still appeals a lot to us. It’s the surrounding area that gives some pause. The Dearborn Park SFHs have to be by far the cheapest within a mile of the Loop and with a viable neighborhood school. Good diversity and feel. I could be wrong but I don’t think the SFH pricing will be greatly affected by other S Loop units.
anon (tfo): Thanks for the info. Kitchen looks ok to me, but it is just one big long open space. Not sure if we are interested enough to look at it but if so will report back. My wife, who I love dearly, has a lot of requirements, one of which is she doesn’t want a house on the west side of the street. We are currently on west side and its gets pretty hot in the backyard in the summertime. Would be nice to have some shade.
“its gets pretty hot in the backyard in the summertime”
Don’t have to woory about it much when there isn’t a backyard. Also, the 4+ story building across the alley prob provides some shade.
Funny. Should put that in listing.
Don’t even look at listings sometimes if they are west side of street. South side may be just as bad in summer but don’t have personal experience.
Thanks, DZ. That is my impression of the school.
In Dearborn Park II there are many owners who bought last century for about half of current MV. Not much stress for them, so the correction will happen slowly.
Re Pulaski, alderman’s office says there’s no specific plans in place re capital improvements.